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fountainhall
July 18th, 2014, 10:49
When I opened the BBC news site this morning and noticed тАШMHтАЩ, I assumed it was a report with further information about the missing MH370. Yet the horrific shooting down of MH17 over Ukraine quickly grabbed my attention.

The details are now all over the internet. CNN this morning aired voice recordings of pro-Russian militants who appear to be responsible and who clearly assumed they had shot down a Ukrainian Antonov 26 military aircraft using a Russian supplied missile. A similar aircraft had been shot down as recently as Monday this week. Shades of Korean Air flight 007, in a way, the 747 which the Soviet Union shot down over the Pacific after it twice strayed massively into Soviet airspace in 1983. In that case, for years afterwards there were strong rumours that the US was involved. It was well known that a large US military aircraft was zigzagging behind KE007, the conspiracy theories suggesting that it was trying to trigger new Soviet air defense systems and assess their efficiency. The rumours even went as far as suggesting the pilots of the Korean flight were in on the тАШplanтАЩ and had deliberately recalibrated their navigation systems during a stop-over in Anchorage. It has still never been explained why that aircraft was a massive 200 miles off course when it met its fate

What I find strange in the present case is that commercial aircraft were permitted to fly over Ukraine where disputing parties are virtually at war and known to be using some form of missiles. Many airlines had decided not to take the risk. A Qantas spokesman said the airline had been flying 400 nautical miles clear of the area "for several months". Apparently aircraft had to fly higher than 32,000 ft. and the MH flight was at 33,000 ft. According to the professional pilots website pprune.org, there are also reports that the aircraft may have veered slightly off-course due to bad weather. This took it directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region. Presumably this deviation from the planned flight path had been cleared with air traffic control тАУ not that this would probably have affected the outcome. Yet you have to wonder: what would happen to any plane in Ukrainian airspace that got into difficulties above 32,000 feet (rapid depressurisation, loss of power etc.) and was forced to descend rapidly below that 32,000 feet limit?

When I moved to Hong Kong at the start of 1979, the last leg of the flight from Bangkok to Hong Kong took an hour longer than usual. Vietnam airspace was closed due to a short border war with China far to the north. Aircraft had to fly around the south of Vietnam. Surely Ukrainian airspace should have been closed тАУ as has now happened? Too late to avoid a tragedy, sadly!

fountainhall
July 18th, 2014, 12:55
Apologies. This thread should have been posted under Anything Else. The only reason it might be applicable to this heading is because many of the passengers killed were high profile HIV experts on their way to an international Aids conference which starts this weekend. Very sad.

a447
July 18th, 2014, 17:37
I think they probably took the risk in order to save fuel.

fountainhall
July 18th, 2014, 19:00
Whilst some airlines had elected to avoid Ukraine airspace for some time (Qantas, Korean, Asiana, China Airlines, Cathay Pacific etc.), many airlines including THAI were still flying the route prior to this shooting down. Amazingly at least one Singapore Airlines flight continued using it even an hour or so afterwards, according to flyertalk.com. Saving fuel or not - and irrespective of the official airline safety organisation advising it would be safe to over fly above 32,000 feet, I can't help feeling that all those airlines were gambling with their passengers lives. And I wonder who made that decision that 31,000 and below was dangerous but 32,000 and above was safe! This is more of a key issue given that the US FAA issued a notice to all US airlines prohibiting them from overflying Ukrainian airspace as far back as 23 April.

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publicat ... E_SFAR.pdf (http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ifim/us_restrictions/media/2014_0214_04-29_FINAL_FDC_NOTAM4-7667_UKRAINE_SFAR.pdf)

In what has been described as a huge blow to AIDS research, as many as 100 leading researchers are thought to have been killed when the aircraft was destroyed. They were heading for a major AIDS Conference in Melbourne due to start on Sunday. Clive Aspin, a veteran HIV researcher . . . told Guardian Australia. тАЬThese people were the best and the brightest, the ones who had dedicated their whole careers to fighting this terrible virus. ItтАЩs devastating.тАЭ

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... shed-plane (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/aids-conference-says-100-researchers-may-have-been-on-board-crashed-plane)

July 26th, 2014, 13:42
In what has been described as a huge blow to AIDS research, as many as 100 leading researchers are thought to have been killed when the aircraft was destroyed. They were heading for a major AIDS Conference in Melbourne due to start on Sunday. Clive Aspin, a veteran HIV researcher . . . told Guardian Australia. тАЬThese people were the best and the brightest, the ones who had dedicated their whole careers to fighting this terrible virus. ItтАЩs devastating.тАЭThis number rapidly took on the status of urban myth (http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/07/23/100-aids-researchers-on-mh17-why-and-how-the-media-got-it-wrong/) and was propagated by someone at the AIDS conference. It turns out that there were six delegates in total who died, and fewer than half of them could be described as "leading researchers".

Jetsam
July 28th, 2014, 01:06
In what has been described as a huge blow to AIDS research, as many as 100 leading researchers are thought to have been killed when the aircraft was destroyed. They were heading for a major AIDS Conference in Melbourne due to start on Sunday. Clive Aspin, a veteran HIV researcher . . . told Guardian Australia. тАЬThese people were the best and the brightest, the ones who had dedicated their whole careers to fighting this terrible virus. ItтАЩs devastating.тАЭThis number rapidly took on the status of urban myth (http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/07/23/100-aids-researchers-on-mh17-why-and-how-the-media-got-it-wrong/) and was propagated by someone at the AIDS conference. It turns out that there were six delegates in total who died, and fewer than half of them could be described as "leading researchers".

thank for that kommentariat, only three ,that make this so much more bearable, 295 of them where not the best and the brightest in Aids research.

August 2nd, 2014, 13:16
thank for that kommentariat, only three ,that make this so much more bearable, 295 of them where not the best and the brightest in Aids research.Shit happens, Jetsam. More people than this die on the roads of many countries every year yet we choose not to mourn them. Thailand kills nearly twice this number on its roads just over the Songkran period.