Thai Visa Discussion..Important New Changes

[gregvc]

a number of members mention that you can satisfy the retirement requirements by obtaining a letter from their embassy rather than showing 800,000 baht in a THai bank. What does such a letter say? Are 60 day visas still operating with a 30 day extension done at Chaeng Wattana govt office and can a trip (once only) outside to say Laos or Cambodia be used for a 30 day stay, meaning 60 + 30 +30 days with only one trip outside.

[travelerjim]

gregvc...

What is your home country citizenship?

What is your age?

How many so called tourist visa have you had in past year to Thailand?

With that information...many may be able to better answer your questions.

Changes in enforcement of Thailand visas are happening daily...
I suggest you read Thaivisa.com for latest updates.

"It seems that Immigration officers at Sungaikolok, Tak Bai, Buketa, Sadao and Padang Besar are actively trying to distinguish between genuine tourists and individuals who reside in Thailand long term using the incorrect visa type - a tourist visa.

Those individuals who have a history of 15/30 day border runs and who are then trying to enter with a new 60 days tourist visa from Penang, for example, have been refused entry.

Foreigners in Thailand should be reminded that it has always been the case that entry to Thailand is at the discretion of Immigration officers. "

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/741 ... n=breaking (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/741503-south-thailand-border-crossings-reports-problems-to-enter-with-60-days-tourist-visas-tr60/?utm_source=newsletter-20140710-0758&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking)

Even having a valid tourist visa issued by a Thai Embassy is NOT a reason for Thai Immigration to ALLOW you to enter Thailand...

[fountainhall]

Suggestion to surfcrest. Since visa questions occur with considerable frequency, would it be useful to have a pinned thread that either deals with posts about visas or, better still, simply lays out the specific requirements re the various types of visas/entry permits and their qualifications/validity/limitations etc.?

[gregvc]

I am 58. I travel to BKK on Melb consulate issued 60 days 2 entries. I return to Melb for 2 or 3 months then off again to BKK. My Thai partner of 16 yrs (thai law does not recognise the relationship) is working in BKK. He is also Australian. I have been working in Thailand (yes, I know against visa).

[travelerjim]

GREGVC...

As you are 50+ ...now 58...I strongly suggest you obtain the so called "Retirement Visa"..
I believe you are among those who Thailand seeks to stop.
Just get the proper visa you are entitled too...and you will be OK.
I cannot speak of your work issue.. Up to You!

I am not sure what financial proof your AU Embassy requires of you to get a notarized letter for Thai Immigration
stating your monthly income is $ AU __________...

Thai Immigration needs to see annual 800,000 Thai baht or 66,667 Thai baht monthly to issue you the "extension of stay" for 365 days.
others on this board I am sure will be able to post of their experience.

You can convert the visa you now hold which you entered Thailand while still in Bangkok...
simple and quick to do. That will enable you to get an "extension of stay" of 365 days (one year)...and you do this annually.

At the same time get a single or multiple entry permit...allowing you to go and come as you wish throughout the year of your visa.

You speak of your Thai partner...You say he is Australian...???
Does he hold both Thai & AU Passports? If Thai I assume he does and NO problem for him...if he is under age 50.

Good luck...

tj

[travelerjim]

Thailand Immigration clearly is implementing new procedures for visa entry to Thailand.

I suggest you keep watch on thaivisa.com for updated happenings as reported by their many forum members.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/741 ... n=breaking (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/741503-south-thailand-border-crossings-reports-problems-to-enter-with-60-days-tourist-visas-tr60/?utm_source=newsletter-20140710-0758&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking)

Also I believe it is important for you to obtain the proper visa to enter Thailand.

Those who have used the tourist visa...to live in Thailand and work illegally in Thailand...
and do so called visa runs..to extend their stays in Thailand...
GET THE PROPER VISA...your days are numbered...be prepared to move.
Thai Immigration Is screening & searching for you.

"Those individuals who have a history of 15/30 day border runs and who are then trying to enter with a new 60 days tourist visa from Penang, for example, have been refused entry."

This indicates that solely being in possession of a valid tourist visa does not give foreigners a right to enter Thailand. It seems that a tourist visa alone does not provide automatic entry at the border.

One needs to pass the interview at the border with the immigration officer who has the final say. The immigration officer at the border has the right to refuse entry if he/she believes the foreigner is attempting to enter Thailand with a tourist visa for purposes other than tourism. That would be illegal use of the visa previously granted at a consulate or embassy.

Until Thai Visa provides updates I would recommend anyone planning to enter Thailand at a land border crossing with a Tourist Visa to be prepared to prove they are bona fide tourists.

The burden of proof now seems to be on the tourist to prove that the purpose of the visit is tourism. Get prepared to provide the border crossing immigration officer with: prepaid itineraries on travel agent letterhead, prepaid hotel vouchers, proof of funds from overseas, prepaid airline tickets back to Australia, USA or your home country, Western Union receipts, ATM receipts, hotel brochures, tourist guide books, or even detailed handwritten notes in your tourist guide book to show where and how you plan to be a tourist.. etc. etc.

Be prepared and well documented to plead your case at the border to assure the immigration officer that you are a tourist. If you can, you might be OK.

---------------------------

[travelerjim]

aot871..

Simple...read the replies as posted on Thaivisa.com...there are many reported problems...
made by fellas who have already ...in recent days...experienced troubles with using their visas to enter Thailand...

For some..it means the end of the road for living here in Thailand using back to back tourist visa runs.

Six pages - 131 postings of discussion and happenings reported...read & be informed
Choose what you wish to believe...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/741 ... isas-tr60/ (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/741503-south-thailand-border-crossings-reports-problems-to-enter-with-60-days-tourist-visas-tr60/)

"IF THE SHOW FITS"
Good Luck..

tj

[LoveThailand]

This indicates that solely being in possession of a valid tourist visa does not give foreigners a right to enter Thailand. It seems that a tourist visa alone does not provide automatic entry at the border.

One needs to pass the interview at the border with the immigration officer who has the final say. The immigration officer at the border has the right to refuse entry if he/she believes the foreigner is attempting to enter Thailand with a tourist visa for purposes other than tourism. That would be illegal use of the visa previously granted at a consulate or embassy.


This is a universal rule for any country: possession of the visa does not guarantee entry into the country. All final decisions in any country are made by the immigration officer.

[Surfcrest]

The Thai Visa discussion from the thread A question for retirees has been split and merged with the topic Thai Visa Discussion...Important New Changes.
The discussion has been pinned to the top, due to the importance of the subject matter.
I apologize if this impacted your posts in any manner.

Surfcrest

[francois]

GREGVC...

As you are 50+ ...now 58...I strongly suggest you obtain the so called "Retirement Visa"..
I believe you are among those who Thailand seeks to stop.

I disagree with you jim. I see nothing that would suggest that Thailand is trying to stop visitors such as Greg.

Greg, for Americans the letter of income from their Embassy does not require any proof of income but that may not be the same for Australians. But, as Jim wrote, getting a retirement visa is quite simple as long as you can get that letter from your Embassy and the way to go.

[christianpfc]

One needs to pass the interview at the border with the immigration officer who has the final say. The immigration officer at the border has the right to refuse entry if he/she believes the foreigner is attempting to enter Thailand with a tourist visa for purposes other than tourism. That would be illegal use of the visa previously granted at a consulate or embassy.

I don't know of any interview at the border (and I don't know if this is paragraph is by travelerjim or copy paste from thaivisa).

Someone wrote on Thaivisa: if you have the money to spend years (or your entire life) on holiday all around the world (but do not qualify for a visa in Thailand), that's great for you, but you cannot do so in Thailand.

I have the money to support myself in Thailand, can tell the officer in Thai where I went for touristic purposes all over Thailand, but am not willing to draw itineraries, provide hotel bookings or other stuff to get back into Thailand, I will probably return to Europe if that is required.

There is an entire forum with knowledgeable (an not knowledgeable) people, it is even aptly called "Thaivisa", that's the right place for visa discussion.

[Smiles]

The Retirement Visa (so-called) is a good option for Greg only regarding the 'age' criteria (he is 58). I assume ~ perhaps incorrectly ~ that at that age he would have the 'income' or 'money-in-the-bank' covered.
But if he wishes to continue working in Thailand then the Retirement Visa is not the one for him. If Greg wants to continue to work then a Non Imm 'B' work visa is his only option.
Greg, the money issue ~ your main question in your OP ~ involved in obtaining a Retirement Visa is actually quite simple: you either have to show proof of income of at least 800,000 baht/yr, or that same amount on deposit at a Thai bank.
It could also be a combination of the two, but the combo must still come up equal to the 800,000 Baht requirement.
'Proof' means, for the first option, a letter from your country's Thailand Embassy certifying your income. For the second option (i.e. money-in-the-bank) the bank manager at your Thai bank branch must give you a statement of deposit (including some 'date' issues). In my opinion the Embassy income letter option is much the easier. In my case, at the Canadian Embassy, showing up at 9am gets you out of there, letter in hand, in 20 minutes tops ... my wallet minus 1500 baht :D .

Francois above states that the USA Embassy income letter does not require a proper 'proof of Income'. I've heard that before from more than one person. However, the Canadian Embassy definitely requires proof. So it seems that various countries decide differently on this issue.

The problem with Traveler Jim's cut&pastings is that they mostly come out of ThaiVisa threads ... which in my opinion is often a dung heap of bad and conflicting information. Everybody is an expert on ThaVisa! Personally, I would take ThaiVisa threads on Immigration issues with a very large grain of salt.
TJ himself states one must " ... read (ThaiVisa) & be informed. (And then) choose what you wish to believe ... ". Exactly! But I don't think Traveler Jim understands the head-scratching such discombobulated logic produces at the end of the day. ThaiVisa threads on Immigration issues always roil on until the 'opinions' there often ~ not always ~ overwhelm any possibility of getting to the heart of the matter.

[fountainhall]

you either have to show proof of income of at least 800,000 baht/yr, or that same amount on deposit at a Thai bank.
It could also be a combination of the two, but the combo must still come up equal to the 800,000 Baht requirement.
I believe the exact wording is that the letter must show proof of income of the equivalent of at least Bt. 65,000 per month. The combo route essentially means that if you have, say, Bt. 400,000 in a bank here in Thailand, then the letter needs to show proof of around Bt. 33,000 per month

One additional issue re having that Bt. 800,000 in your Thai bank account. When renewing a retirement visa, the Immigration authorities need to see that this amount has been in your bank for not less than 90 days prior to your applying for renewal. You have to show a savings account passbook that has been updated on the day you apply (at Chaeng Wattana there are passbook update machines in the basement) plus you need a letter from your bank in Thai (preferably issued not earlier than the day before the application) confirming that at least Bt. 800,000 has been in your account for the 90 days and stating in writing the balance in the account as of that date. I fail to understand why a letter and a passbook are needed since the updated passbook has all the required information. But this is Thailand!

Going the combo route, I am not sure if the smaller amount in your Thai bank account has be to be there for 90 days in advance. Perhaps others can answer that one.

[Smiles]

" ... I believe the exact wording is that the letter must show proof of income of the equivalent of at least Bt. 65,000 per month ... "
Yes, you are right about Thailand using the monthly income amount. I used the yearly TB800,000 amount because the Canadian Embassy income letter gives the bottom line as an annual income, in Canadian dollars. They let Thai Imm do the math.

Interesting that: At the Imm Office in Hua Hin at least, once they have perused the income document they ask me what the exchange rate is that day!
I suppose I could say any rate I want :D . But I just say "I dunno kup" (I usually don't), giving them more work to do, frowningly.

[ceejay]

You'd think there'd be a standard consular letter wouldn't you? The British Consulate in Chiang Mai works it out as a monthly figure, in baht.

I am now going to be a visa bore. Upgrading a tourist visa to a retirement visa has been mentioned. You can't actually get a retirement (O-A) visa in Thailand. What you can do is:
1)Apply to upgrade the tourist visa to a single entry non-immigrant visa (Non immigrant "O" visa). For this you will need to have either the income statement from your consulate, or the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank. The 800,000 baht will not need to be "seasoned" at this stage - It's OK if it has been transferred into Thailand the day before you apply. You also need proof of residence in the form of a lease on a condo or house, or a contract with a serviced apartment or hotel.
2) After 60 days, you can then apply for a 1-year retirement extension for this visa at immigration. You need the same documents - I'm afraid that you have to get a new income letter from your consulate. At this stage, the 800,000 baht must be seasoned (ie it must have been in the Thai bank account for at least 60 days before you apply.)
3) For annual renewals of the extension, the 800,000 baht has to be seasoned for 90 days - ie it must have been in the Thai bank account for at least 90 days before you apply for the renewal.
The above based on personal experience in Chiang Mai. Be warned: procedures vary from place to place.

Things not based on personal experience but which I believe to be true:
Especially for the one year extension, some consulates will not certify salary income, on the reasonable grounds that, if you are staying in Thailand for a year, you won't have any salary income in your home country. The bank deposit is probably the surer way to go if you do not have an occupational pension.
You can also upgrade a 30-day visa exemption in the same way as a tourist visa.
Some immigration offices do not handle visa upgrades at all.

Some comments:
If you are planning on, or even considering, retiring to Thailand and can get a retirement extension now, it might be a good idea. As I understand it in the past, when requirements to get this extension have been changed, the sytem has had a "grandfather" arrangement where existing visa holders only need to meet the old requirements, not the new ones. However, you need to be reasonably sure you will be in Thailand at the same time each year, because you can only renew 30 days before the old extension expires. Also, once you have the visa, if you wish to leave Thailand you must get a re-entry permit from immigration before you go. Otherwise, the visa is automatically cancelled on departure, and you have to go through the whole procedure all over again!
It's a good idea to open a Thai bank account now. It's useful for anybody who visits Thailand often and, if you are going to apply for a retirement extension, you are going to need it anyway.

[Smiles]

Especially for the one year extension, some consulates will not certify salary income, on the reasonable grounds that, if you are staying in Thailand for a year, you won't have any salary income in your home country.
A thought on this Ceejay: It does't state anywhere that one's income needs to be 'salary' income.
Income is income no matter the source (for instance ... the obvious one for a Retirement Visa ~ pension income and/or investment income), so I can't see a reason why an Embassy wouldn't grant certification.

[travelerjim]

Notes...

1. I personally have converted a 30 day visa on arrival into a O visa & into an extension of stay in the same hour/day at Thai Immigration. Just have the forms and documentation required with you + Thai baht.

2. I have had an extension to stay (365 days) granted 3 months before ending date of my Thai retirement visa...
I was returning to USA for visit & doctors....NO problem. My Thai bf explained it to Thai Immigration Officer.

3. I did have to pay for new re-entry permit at time I got the renewal.

tj

[fountainhall]

I have had an extension to stay (365 days) granted 3 months before ending date of my Thai retirement visa...
I was returning to USA for visit & doctors....NO problem. My Thai bf explained it to Thai Immigration Officer
I do believe this was almost certainly only because of your need for medical treatment. For all others, renewal of retirement visas should be much closer to the expiry of the existing visa - certainly not more than a few weeks. I have always waited till just two weeks before expiry.

Applying for a retirement visa overseas

Instead of converting a visa/permission to stay after arrival in Thailand, you also can do so at Thai consulates overseas prior to arrival in Thailand. However, you have to meet stricter financial and other requirements. You must get a document from the police confirming you have no criminal record in your home country. You need a medical certificate confirming you do not have the following diseases - leprosy, tuberculosis, elephantiasis, 3rd stage syphilis and that you are neither an alcoholic nor a drug addict. You still need to show the minimum income conditions although these can be in overseas currency. When I applied in Hong Kong, I had also to show a lot of other financial information, including proof of ownership of my condo. I got the impression that overseas consulates have a lot of leeway in deciding whether or not to grant retirement visas. So I would not recommend this route.

I think the only benefit of doing it this way is that whilst the visa is valid for multiple entry and exit, within that one-year validity period of the visa, each time you return you automatically get another 12 months stay. So depending on your travelling, you can make it last for almost 2 years before you need to renew it. At renewal, though, you revert to the more usual one year validity which must then be renewed prior to the end of that year.

Details here
http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/service_ ... link_id=48 (http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/service_visa_detail.aspx?link_id=48)

[ceejay]

What we have here is the difference between law and policy, and it's important to bear the difference in mind.
The law is a set of rules that does not change often or very quickly. It is the same whether you are in Thailand, or dealing with an overseas Thai Embassy or Consulate.
Policy is the interpretation and implementation of these laws and this can change, sometimes at quite short notice (see the recent changes in policy regarding visa runners). It can also vary according to which country's consulate you are dealing with and even, inside Thailand, which immigration office you are dealing with. This rather limits the usefulness of any one person's experience, because it is a snapshot dependent on time and place. You can rely on other people's experience for guidance but you cannot assume that your experience will be the same.
There's a similar problem with discussing income letters from foreign consulates in Thailand. Thai immigration don't seem to have set down any rules for these and they all seem to have made up their own. So, as I understand it, at the US consulate an American basically just makes a statement of their income, unsupported by evidence, and the embassy confirms that this statement has been made. The UK consulate, on the other hand, requires documentary evidence and confirms that it has seen that evidence.
For definitive information on what you need to do, you have to go to the immigration office where you are going to make your application, and to your own embassy or consulate.

[travelerjim]

Correct ceejay...

Not difficult...I have found Thai Immigration most helpful for the past 8 years.
I have used Pattaya (Jomtien) and now use Sriricha..as my address of record is in Chonburi.

Also I have found it helps a great deal to have a Thai with you. It is amazing to watch my BF
as he smiles and is courteous to all the Thai officials.

Last time I got my extension of stay in Sriricha Immigration Office, I was in a wheelchair.
As there were steps into their office, as I was about to carefully stand and with help of BF step up...
I was stopped by employee...told me to relax...wait under the shaded tree...

My bf and he entered and within 45 minutes I had both my extension of stay + multiple re-entry stamped into my passport.

When the bf was leaving the office, he was followed by the Colonel in command of the office.
He had my passport in his hand and presented it to me ...wishing me a Happy and Healthier New Year for me.
His office assistant with camera took photos of the Colonel & me.... as he gave me my passport...everybody was happy.

tj

[2lz2p]

gregvc OP:
a number of members mention that you can satisfy the retirement requirements by obtaining a letter from their embassy rather than showing 800,000 baht in a THai bank. What does such a letter say? Are 60 day visas still operating with a 30 day extension done at Chaeng Wattana govt office and can a trip (once only) outside to say Laos or Cambodia be used for a 30 day stay, meaning 60 + 30 +30 days with only one trip outside.

1. Re embassy income letter - Yes, in lieu of having 800k baht in a Thai bank, you can get a letter from your Embassy stating your income. As mentioned by others, each Embassy has their own form of the letter and requirements for issuing it, so best to contact your Embassy to find out what you need to obtain the letter - as mentioned, some require you show some form of documentation to support the amount; whereas others such as US Embassy, requires you to "swear" as to the accuracy of the income information being reported. The required amount if using only the income letter is at least 65,000 baht per month (Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters No. 777/2551, Paragraph 2.22(3)
http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/expats/docs/Police%20Order%20777-2551%20for%20Visa%20Extension%202008.pdf)
If you are using a combination of funds in bank and income, the annualized total of the income plus the funds on deposit must be equal or greater than 800,000 baht [the income in the income letter will most likely be your home currency, Immigration will apply the current exchange rate to convert it to baht].

2. Extension of stay on a Tourist Visa - upon arrival you get a 60 day permission to stay and yes, you can extend it for another 30 days at Thai Immigration.

3. Making a border run -if doing by air, no problem at this time (crackdown to be implemented at airports in August according to news article interview with ranking Immigration General) - you should get a 30 day stay with no problem. Right now, using a land border might be problematic as each border location uses their own interpretations. It has always been a requirement for those entering on Visa Exempt (30 day stay) to have an onward ticket and a certain amount of funds - 10,000 individual and 20,000 family. However it has never really been enforced, until now. These new restrictions are still being sorted, so as Travlerjim mentions, be prepared to show you are in fact a tourist even if you have a Tourist Visa (but maybe not quite to the extent he mentioned, but then belt and suspenders never hurts) :D - if you have several back to back Visa Exempt entries or combinations of Visa and Visa Exempt showing you are living in Thailand for an extended period, you are at high risk of being denied entry.

As mentioned, you can apply for a Non-Immigrant O Visa at some Immigration Offices in Thailand (Bangkok and Pattaya will do) by providing all the paperwork you would need to qualify for a retirement extension of stay. The Visa fee is 2,000 baht. You get a 90 day permission stay which you then apply to extend for a full year. The extension fee is 1,900 baht - two sets of the same documents will be needed, one for Visa and the other for extension.

If doing in Bangkok, it appears you get the Visa and then go back 60 days later for the extension. In Pattaya, it is all done on the same day and they accept one original and one photocopy of the Embassy letter. Once you have your extension of stay, you can then get a Re-Entry permit (1,000 baht for single entry or 3,800 baht for multiple entry) so that you can leave and return to Thailand with your retirement extension still in force. If you are using the full 800k baht in a Thai bank, it will need to be on deposit 60 days before your application for extension (90 days when doing annual renewals). If not on deposit the full 60 days and you are applying in Pattaya, they will do like Bangkok, issue the Visa and tell you to come back in 60 days to do the extension.

If you go for the retirement extension, you will need to be in Thailand for your annual renewal (up to 30 days beforehand). Pattaya Immigration used to do it up to 60 days if you were not going to be in Thailand or as in the case mentioned, 90 days because of medical reasons. However, I have talked to two different individuals who recently tried to do it more than 30 days beforehand and were refused.

The Pattaya City Expats Club has a lot of information on Immigration requirements for entry into Thailand and extending your stay that you might find helpful - http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/expats/visa.html

They also have a checklist for retirement extensions showing documents needed including the two step process of Non-Immigrant O Visa + extension of stay at http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/expats/docs/retirementvisachecklist.pdf The checklist primarily is for Chonburi (Pattaya) Immigration requirements, but other offices should be similar.

[fountainhall]

It has always been a requirement for those entering on Visa Exempt (30 day stay) to have an onward ticket
Onward Tickets.

This may become more of an issue if there is some form of crackdown on the way since it involves not just Immigration but also the airlines. I have rarely met anyone who has entered the Kingdom on such 30 day permits and been asked for their onward ticket at Immigration. But before I got my retirement visa, I was twice almost denied boarding on flights in to BKK for that very reason.

Once was in Hong Kong despite many Thailand entry/exit stamps in my passport and my being near the top tier of the CX loyalty programme. That took just one call to a supervisor and my boarding pass was issued. The other time was in Sydney trying to board a BA flight. Again I was in business class and had a BA Executive Club Gold card. But I had no onward ticket with me, even though I was booked on another airline to HKG less than 14 days later. This took 25 minutes to solve after going through three layers of management, calling the travel agent in BKK, and my providing the airline with a blank signed credit card slip in the event I was denied entry at BKK. That would have involved BA flying me back to Sydney at my cost and paying the fine which the BKK authorities would levy on the airline for breaking the rules!

I would not recommend anyone coming in on the 30-day visa waiver trying to enter the Kingdom without having physical proof of an onward ticket on arrival.

[bkkguy]

The problem with Traveler Jim's cut&pastings is that they mostly come out of ThaiVisa threads ... which in my opinion is often a dung heap of bad and conflicting information. Everybody is an expert on ThaVisa! Personally, I would take ThaiVisa threads on Immigration issues with a very large grain of salt.

the majority of people posting on topics like this on Internet forums - including here and including ThaiVisa - don't understand the concepts and don't understand or use the terminology correctly and consistently so most posts, here and elsewhere, while perhaps well-intentioned, are misleading or at best confusing

you need to be able to identify the posters who know what they are talking about - which seems to be significantly lacking on this thread so far - but at least on ThaiVisa the posts by the moderators and super-moderators on the Immigration forums are consistent in their use of terminology and the reliability of their information which is why I still recommend ThaiVisa as the best source of information on Immigration issues

but yes, you do need to read selectively there, but I do believe that using the moderator posts there to learn about and understand the issues, concepts and the terminology will certainly make it easier when wading through the bullsh*t you encounter everywhere!

bkkguy

[joe552]

Just to show this isn't only aimed at "farangs", the guy I spent my recent holiday with (who is from Laos and regularly did visa runs to Cambodia) has just realised that his passport has been marked as an over-stayer. He now needs to go back to Laos to get a new passport (or visa - he confuses the two in our chats). He is afraid that the army will stop him on the way back to Laos and detain him. I told him I think he will need to pay an over-stay fine at the border. I hope I'm right.

[cdnmatt]

He is afraid that the army will stop him on the way back to Laos and detain him. I told him I think he will need to pay an over-stay fine at the border. I hope I'm right.

If he makes it to the border without hitting a checkpoint, then yes, you're right. Unfortunately for him, he has to go right through the middle of red-shirt country to get to Laos during a time of military rule, so although it's not guaranteed he'll hit a check point, there's always a chance. If he hits a checkpoint and has his passport checked before he gets to the border, then yes, he will be detained and from what the new regulations seem to say, blacklisted for 5 years as well.

If he gets to the border without getting checked, and assuming his overstay is under 90 days, then you're right. He pays his overstay fine, and can probably come back the next day. Well, nowadays it's all depending on whether the immigration officer decides he's a visa runner or not.

Bloody hell. Thailand is getting confusing these days.

[travelerjim]

According to reports...the NEW rules re: overstay & blacklisting is awaiting FINAL approval from the Minister.
Expected in the coming week...so IF he makes it to the border now...he should be OK.
IF he flies out...OK...pay at airport.

tj

My frends say Smiles is right evry immigation official just makes up there own rules as they go along plus theres all the immigration agents who are slipping backhanders to some pet immigation official. A mate of mine who does everthing by the book, a million baht on deposit at a bank more fool him says his immigation agent always sends his renewal off to some office he has never heard of and evry year hes been doing it for 4 or 5 years its the same immigation official who signs all the doco. Tell me something dodgy isnt going on there. And the army think there gonna cut out corruption coz it was that nasty Mister Thaksin who introduced corruption to Thailand ho ho ho.

[fountainhall]

The Nation today reports on its front page that the new rules come in on August 12. Those on back-to-back visas/permits have so far been allowed in provided they enter by air. From August 12 that route closes.


FOREIGNERS WHO do regular visa runs in order to extend their stay in Thailand have less than a month before a crackdown by the authorities to enforce immigration laws more strictly. From August 13, people will not be able to re-enter the country, regardless of their choice of transport . . . Pol Colonel Thirachai Dedkhad, the superintendent at the Sa Kaew checkpoint, said officials under his supervision were not stopping visa runners from re-entering yet. "But we have been warning them to acquire a proper visa before they come to Thailand the next time." He said immigration officials had also warned people departing that they must obtain a proper visa if they want to come back . . .

Meanwhile, the Immigration Bureau website says: "Leniency will be granted until August 12, but only for passengers arriving by air. Foreigners who come to Thailand must seek a proper visa in line with the purpose of their intended stay here." Now, those on a visa run who are allowed back in will find an "O-I" (Out-In) mark next to their latest stamp marking entry. From August 13, nobody with an O-I sign on their passport will be allowed to re-enter Thailand if they cannot produce a proper visa.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/nationa ... 38504.html (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/No-more-visa-runs-30238504.html)

The Nation's wording seems a bit odd. On the one hand it says those on visa runs will not be allowed to re enter. On the other, it says that if you are on a visa run and you ARE allowed back, you get the "O-I" mark on your passport. As bkkguy suggests, all visa information needs to be double-checked.

[travelerjim]

More Visa Changes Coming : The Thai ED Education Visa....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/743 ... n=featured (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/743070-going-down-the-ed-visa-route/?utm_source=newsletter-20140716-1526&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured)

"Hi all, just thought I would pass on the following information which I was told today by a language school in Asoke.

I have decided to go down the Ed Visa route, the school I will be attending in Asoke advised that from July 1st the rules changed (apologies if already covered).

It is now a lot more difficult to obtain an ed visa, and even more difficult renewing it every 90 days.

From 1st July, each student on an Ed Visa must visit the MOE (Ministry of Education) every 3 months to undergo a Thai language (reading, writing and speaking) test. If you pass they issue authority for the next 90 days of the visa to be issued by immigration.

They will also be doing random visits to language schools."

tj

Americans - Want better guaranteed fixed interest rates?
http://www.aurorafreelance.com/ss01/p03.pdf

One has to be grateful the riff-raff are being sorted out and all those visa runner English teachers won't be around to inflect their learning on the young Thais.

[joe552]

Just an update on my Laos friend - he was held by the police in Ubon for 4 days and just reached Laos today. He had to pay 15,000Bt (which he didn't have) so needed to get help from friends and cousins. Even when he gets his new passport I'm not convinced he'll be allowed back into Thailand. We'll wait and see.

[zinzone]

Just an update on my Laos friend - he was held by the police in Ubon for 4 days and just reached Laos today. He had to pay 15,000Bt (which he didn't have) so needed to get help from friends and cousins. Even when he gets his new passport I'm not convinced he'll be allowed back into Thailand. We'll wait and see.

Surely your Laos friend got what he deserved for breaking the law. You surely do not expect anyone to have sympathy for him, do you?!

Just an update on my Laos friend - he was held by the police in Ubon for 4 days and just reached Laos today. He had to pay 15,000Bt (which he didn't have) so needed to get help from friends and cousins. Even when he gets his new passport I'm not convinced he'll be allowed back into Thailand. We'll wait and see.Surely your Laos friend got what he deserved for breaking the law. You surely do not expect anyone to have sympathy for him, do you?!You're gay and you care about breaking the law??!!!!

[joe552]

I was simply reporting his experience - not looking for sympathy.

[scottish-guy]

...You're gay and you care about breaking the law??!!!!

Presumably zinzone has such respect for "the law", he has never hired a Thai boy?

[youtube:29xnfoqy]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoZ7JXkv6_o[/youtube:29xnfoqy]

...You're gay and you care about breaking the law??!!!!Presumably zinzone has such respect for "the law", he has never hired a Thai boy?I suspect we'll find that zinzone is like so many other people (speeding drivers come to mind) who believe that they always have an excellent reason for ignoring whatever law might inconvenience them.

[travelerjim]

IT'S OFFICIAL....NEW OVERSTAY RULES HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/744 ... paign=news (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/744965-thailand-immigration-confirms-new-overstay-rules-are-now-official/?utm_source=newsletter-20140722-1017&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news)

BANGKOK: The website of the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok has today (22nd July 2014) posted a new announcement regarding its rules for overstay.

TodayтАЩs announcement is further confirmation on the proposed crackdown on foreigners overstaying in Thailand, which Thaivisa.com published earlier this month.

The announcement which is written in both English and Thai details the penalties for overstay as follows:

Warning !

The aliens who violate The Immigration Act, B.E.2522 by overstaying more than 90 days in the Kingdom of Thailand will be forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for a certain period of time as follow ;

Overstay more than 90 days forbidden 1 year

Overstay more than 1 year forbidden 3 years

Overstay more than 3 years forbidden 5 years

Overstay more than 5 years forbidden 10 years

In the case that alien is being apprehended

Overstay less than 1 year forbidden 5 years

Overstay more than 1 years forbidden 10 years

It should also be noted that todayтАЩs new rules as detailed above confirms the removal of the proposed lifetime ban for overstaying 10 years or more, which Thaivisa.com informed its members of on Sunday 20th July 2014, following the announcement of longer visa exemptions from next month.

tj

Americans - Want better guaranteed fixed interest rates?
http://www.aurorafreelance.com/ss01/p03.pdf

[lo-so]

Just to balance things a bit for those who might be worried by pronouncements by some saying things were official etc and might therefore have decided to stay illegally - it appears that immigration is giving a little bit of breathing space for those over-stayers to clear up matters. Surprisingly decent of them...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/745 ... cklisting/ (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/745684-still-time-to-clear-your-overstay-without-blacklisting/)

[travelerjim]

IF YOU KNOW OF AN OVERSTAYER>>>>

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/745 ... paign=news (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/745684-still-time-to-clear-your-overstay-without-blacklisting/?utm_source=newsletter-20140724-1455&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news)

GOOD NEWS FROM IMMIGRATION BUREAU

Still time to clear your overstay without blacklisting

BANGKOK: -- The Immigration Bureau has informed Thaivisa.com and updated its website to
further clarify the recent news for overstaying in Thailand.

The normal overstay penalty is 500 Baht per day up to a maximum of 20,000 Baht. That has not changed.

What has changed is, that overstayed foreigners will be blacklisted from entering Thailand.
Immigration now clarifies that the new regulation is still under procedure of approval by the Ministry of Interior.

That means, the new rules is not yet in effect.

If you currently are on overstay, you are advised to clear it as soon as possible. Good advice would be to clear the overstay at the Airport and fly out to a neighbouring country and obtain a relevant visa at a Royal Thai Consulate or Embassy.

So for now, there is no blacklisting yet, according to the Immigration notice below. However blacklisting for overstay is awaiting approval from The Ministry of Interior.

tj

[fountainhall]

The normal overstay penalty is 500 Baht per day up to a maximum of 20,000 Baht. That has not changed.

What has changed is, that overstayed foreigners will be blacklisted from entering Thailand.
Anyone know what will happen to those who overstay for LESS than 90 days? Will they only be subject to the Bt. 500 per day overstay? Or will they be subject to blacklisting in addition? Or are we still waiting to hear about this scenario?

[2lz2p]

It appears that they do not plan to "ban" anyone with 90 or less days of an overstay PROVIDED they "surrender" themselves (arriving at Immigration departure point or office). But, if they are apprehended (caught) in overstay status, even if only one day, they will be banned.

[joe552]

(Not for the attention of zinzone!!) Just heard from my friend - he's back in Thailand with his new passport. Remains to be seen what happens when he tries to renew his visa (I've no idea what kind of visa he might have). But he's happy for now anyway.

Just heard from my friend - he's back in Thailand with his new passport. Remains to be seen what happens when he tries to renew his visa (I've no idea what kind of visa he might have). But he's happy for now anyway.I don't think we should assume that Thai Immigration is capable of more than tagging a passport number; my guess is your friend with his new passport now has a clean slate. Given that Immigration officials manually read each passport page and manually tot up how many entries of how many days, you wonder why they have a computer system at all.