A question for retirees

[joe552]

I won't be in a position to retire for about 7 years, but I wonder what made you choose Thailand as your retirement destination. Food. temples, boys, cheap living costs? What would be your best piece of advice to someone thinking about retiring there?

Just to clarify, I don't work anymore - I'm a full time carer for my mother who is 93. My mention of retirement refers to receiving the State Pension of about тВм240 per week.

[francois]

Only reason to retire there is the Boyz. As for advice, don't burn your bridges back to home.

[joe552]

Don't forget the cheap but disgusting wine, francois :)

[netrix]

I'm not retired but living here for almost 3 years now. there's a big 'digital nomad' group here in thailand...
a lot of location-independent / self employed guys and gals in Bangkok and Chiang Mai. that's a big
draw for me. a low cost of living while building a business and living a bit of adventure.

[joe552]

I've never heard that phrase "digital nomad" before. I assume that's what cdnmatt considers himself to be?

Btw, is a digital nomad a person who works online, and can do so from almost any location?

[ceejay]

It's an unanswerable question really. The short answer is that I chose Thailand because that is what I wanted to do. After spending 6 months of each of the last two years in Chiang Mai, I will, all being well, shortly be moving to Thailand permanently.

Which raises my best piece of advice. It's obviously difficult for you with your responsibility for your mother, but before you make a permanent move, try to spend at least one or two extended periods of 3 months or more in Thailand. It's not the same as being on holiday.

There are as many reasons for living in Thailand as there are expats. Don't concern yourself with why others have done it. Check out whether it works for you, on your terms, for your own reasons and if you are really, really, sure that it does, go for it.

[Smiles]

I'm assuming the 240 Euros is not your only income? If so ... good bloody luck. :-o

[lego]

What would be your best piece of advice to someone thinking about retiring there?
Make sure that you fulfill the requirements for the retirement visa extension and get it, if you wish to stay in Thailand continuously.
Make sure that you can (always) return home, if need be.

That's about it, I think. :)

(I'm not retired yet, too, that's just some general advice.)

[Smiles]

" ... is a digital nomad a person who works online (?) ... "
... also very much describes my Urologist, who is always interested in my prostate, digitally-wise.
-----------------------------------------------
Off topic again! Joe, I promise I shall try and actually address your original question when I have thunk about it at length.
Meanwhile, you cannot but admit that you certainly leave a lot of 'entry points' within your posts which are difficult to ~ like Soi dogs ~ let lie.

[joe552]

Smiles, happy to banter with you. I won't have the funds required for a retirement visa when the time comes (800,000Bt in the bank?). My brother lives quite happily in Cambodia on his state pension of тВм240 per week. I was just initiating a conversation about why people chose Thailand to retire to, rather than some place else.

Sorry that you are of an age where a urologist gets to finger your prostate - I have a few more years before that happens (I hope) :)

Only reason to retire there is the Boyz. As for advice, don't burn your bridges back to home.Agree wholeheartedly. Is the 240 Euros on top of owning your accommodation? If so could you rent it out while you're in Thailand without affecting how much you get with the pension? 240 Euros doesn't sound enough if you propose continuing anything like the way of life you pursue while on holiday, especially as the likelihood of more medical costs increases with age and you won't have affordable health insurance in Thailand.

A friend of mine is thinking about selling his house which will give him roughly 12 million baht, buying something in Thailand for say four million baht, and living as far as possible on his pension which is the same as yours. He reckons that's "do-able" but he doesn't go to the bars that much, doesn't have or want a regular boyfriend, and has plenty of things that can occupy his time without having to spend lots of time with "friends".

Cambodia would be an even worse proposition than Thailand if you have health problems. Anything more than dandruff and you're medivaced to Thailand or Singapore. Didn't Fat Boy propose moving to Siem Reap once?

[homeseeker]

joe:

Why did I retire to Thailand?

= The availability 24/7 of loads of nubile young adult males; plus the general absence on the whole here of "ageism".

Best advice to someone thinking of retirement?:

= Make sure you have sufficient income to live in Thailand comfortably and generously. Not enjoyable having to live the life of a 'cheap charlie'.

[dab69]

Sooner you move,
sooner you can be "rebound guy"
for when Scottish Guy is next available... :ymhug:

[fountainhall]

Although not retired, moving here was a no brainer after living for more than 2 decades in South-East Asia - for all the reasons mentioned above. Basically, I did not want to return to the west. Whilst I considered Kuala Lumpur quite seriously - KL was a very cruisy city in the 90s! - there was never much doubt in my mind that it would be Bangkok.

I'd emphasise three things. Spend a lengthy period here before you make the decision to move - already highlighted. Remember that under present UK regulations, if you live abroad your pension is frozen once you start to draw it down. Official inflation figures are low at present but prices of many goods are rising faster here in Thailand. Lastly - and most important in my view - is health insurance. Some expats leave it too late and end up having to self-insure. That's fine if you have a lot of spare cash. If not, make sure you lock into a policy that will be suitable for you in Thailand before you depart. Certainly before you are 65 and preferably before you are 60.

[travelerjim]

I agree with the replies so far...
except...I would NOT recommend you buy in Thailand...
Leases of beautiful condos are readily available...at deep discount prices at the present...
Gives you control of your $$$ and freedom to change locations without worry of having to sell.

Also quite concerned for the 240 BP weekly pension from UK you quoted...and possibility it will
not increase for inflation...per fountainhall's comment above.

Your ability to access the British health care system may be denied as an expat living in Thailand...or outside the UK.
Again, do your research...and I can assure you when fountainhall speaks on that subject he knows what he is talking about!

Good luck to you...

tj

[fountainhall]

The boards have quite a variety of opinions re buying v. renting. I decided to buy almost 15 years ago. I now have an asset that will sell for more than I paid and have lived rent free (apart from management fees and a small amount of maintenance) for all my time in Bangkok. At the same age, I would try to do the same. Renting probably makes more sense the older one is. On the other hand, you are then subject to often unquantifiable market forces. I know one expat on a small budget who got a great rental deal on a condo unit. Two years later he now has to move because the rent has been jacked up beyond his ability to pay. Pattaya may be different, though.

Leases of beautiful condos are readily available...at deep discount prices at the present...
Gives you control of your $$$ and freedom to change locations without worry of having to sell.Yeah Jim is write but many of these condos are down side streets with few passing taxis so to the smart arse who responded to my taxi Apps post that is the reason why you would use them Apps.

[joe552]

Just to clarify - I'm Irish so the figure of 240 pension per week is in Euro. I have no plans personally to retire to Thailand as I won't the 800,000Bt needed for a retirement visa. I was simply starting a conversation about why people chose Thailand as their retirement destination. Thanks for all the interesting replies.

[travelerjim]

240 Euros = 10,562 Thai baht weekly...

IF that is the sum total of your retirement funds...
You are short of the sum to live in Thailand as a retiree comfortably.

And IF NO inflation increases in your pension, you will become squeezed in years ahead from Thai inflation.

I have seen many such a expat retiree who are now experiencing that squeeze...as they retired 20 years ago.

Be careful...and prudent in your decision.

Of course...trying to retire on those Euros in your home country will also be a challenge for you.

Best to you...Good Luck!

tj

[joe552]

I will also have a small pension pot of about тВм25,000 - but as I said, I have no plans to retire in Thailand. My likely destination is Tenerife in the Canary Islands, where I can live more cheaply than Ireland, and avail of free medical care.

[travelerjim]

Pardon me Joe552...

I clearly misunderstood your original question...and am confused.

Why would you ask your question IF you had NO intention to retire in Thailand?

" but I wonder what made you choose Thailand as your retirement destination.
Food. temples, boys, cheap living costs?
What would be your best piece of advice to someone thinking about retiring there?"

You even brought up the 240 Euros pension...in your post.

Several board members were kind to reply postings to your OP...
but actually it was exercise all for nothing, In my humble opinion.

Oh well...
Good luck...

tj

[homeseeker]

Pardon me Joe552...

I clearly misunderstood your original question...and am confused.

Why would you ask your question IF you had NO intention to retire in Thailand?

" but I wonder what made you choose Thailand as your retirement destination.
Food. temples, boys, cheap living costs?
What would be your best piece of advice to someone thinking about retiring there?"

You even brought up the 240 Euros pension...in your post.

Several board members were kind to reply postings to your OP...
but actually it was exercise all for nothing, In my humble opinion.

Oh well...
Good luck...

tj

-I agree with tj. The way you phrased the questions suggested you were considering retirement here not merely starting a conversation. A lot of us do not like our time being wasted.

[Manforallseasons]

Thailand is so different today than it was when I retired here 11 years ago that I can"t comprehend what it will be like 7 from now. If I was to retire today it wouldn't be in Thailand . When I did retire it wasn't for the temples or the food!

[joe552]

A sincere apology for my original post. I was merely trying to start a conversation rather than looking for personal advice. Thanks to all who contributed. I'm sure the information provided will be useful to someone who may be considering a move.

Again, really sorry guys, I didn't intend to mislead.

[travelerjim]

No problem Joe...

From past experiences here when someone poses a question..
many members will happily reply...

Many times the reply takes time to be well thought out...
and thus a good thread is developed to assist the OP and others as well.

Again..
Good Luck in your future retirement plans in the Antarctica...
lol

tj

[bkkmfj2648]

hello manforallseasons,

you wrote, "if I was to retire today it would not be in Thailand"....

please tell us why - as I am interested in retiring in Thailand. I want to make sure that I don't make a big mistake - so any feedback is greatly appreciated.

thanks,
m.

[lego]

Thailand is so different today than it was when I retired here 11 years ago that I can"t comprehend what it will be like 7 from now.
That remark as piqued my interest! What's so different now, in your opinion? The past 11 years are pretty much the time I've covered in Thailand (first as a frequent visitor, then as a resident), and my own impressions are best summarized as, "The more things change, the more they stay the same". Compared to all the other countries I've kept track of in the same period, Thailand hasn't really changed all that much from my personal experience. That's why I'm interested in which BIG changes others see, I might have simply missed them.

[paborn]

I decided not to retire to Thailand. Mostly because I was unsure of the political stability, the economy and, sadly , a difficult tonal language that I have failed to make real headway with. the idea of growing old surrounded by people who I could not really communicate with sounded like a very bad idea. Recently, as I considered spending more time there I read this e book from Amazon: Thailand: Why You Shouldn't Retire To Thailand [Kindle Edition]
The Blether (Author), Zart CG (Illustrator).
I think he lays out some of the very real costs, the healthcare issues and much more, It was a very cheap book - and a quick read by what I take to be an honest man who has experienced the reality of retiring abroad, away from native support systems and examines the TRUE costs. BY the way, the boys may be cheaper than in New York or London but that is relative to how much disposable cash you have left each month.

[Smiles]

"That remark as piqued my interest! What's so different now, in your opinion? ... "
In a nutshell: progress.

The most distinctive observation which I remember having on my first holiday in Thailand back in 2000, was ~ during the taxi ride from the airport to a hotel in Bangkok ~ the incredible numbers of large empty shells of buildings which lined the motorway. Already crumbling, covered in black mold and vines, they were the detritus of the economic crash of 1997, three years before I arrived.
In Canada, I had already seen TV news shows of Thai multimillionaires now selling noodles on the streets, and later Suphot told me stories of~ during that time ~ how he had shunted from job to job only to see his employers shut down their businesses one by one.

None of that anymore: Army coups ~ two of them since I've been around ~ ridiculous politics and endemic corruption notwithstanding, Thailand grows. Although there are a few skeletons from 1997 still decaying upright in Bangkok like forgotten war memorials, most of them have been torn down now, replaced by condos, high rises, malls, more traffic, more skytrain stations, never-ending Tescos, and IKEA. The gentle little Bangkok neighbourhood of On Nut that I remember ~ not so long ago it was the last skytrain station on the Sukhumvit Line ~ is now swimming in huge condos and my favourite old traditional Bangkok night market is being squeezed smaller and smaller from all sides. It won't be there much longer, sadly.

This is one of the most famous decaying memorials, you can see it from Sathorn Rd. Thais think it is filled with ghosts, so, naturally, no one will pull it down!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/sawatdeephotos/abandonded-skyscraper-bangkok_zps96d7d8bb.jpeg

Hua Hin ~ our home ~ is going the same way. There used to be what I would characterise as a 'green zone' between the end of the town buildup and the overpass on the road to Pranburi. Nothing left of it now, and that's only since 2007.
On the positive side of that: Thai national parks are much better kept than they used to be. Huge numbers of Thai folks are slowly dragging themselves into the middle class . . . and the importance of that one single economic trend cannot be overstated.

But the Thai genes for Party/Sanook Time and "mai bphen rai" and familial loyalty has not diminished. A general sense of good old fashioned joie de vivre and a healthy sprinkle of Cosmic Acceptance regarding life-itself shared by Thais was one of the main drawing cards ~ a magnet if you will ~ for me to end up retiring in Thailand right from the get-go, then I'll be sticking around, probably until I croak. (Aside: whatever you may think at this point ... rose coloured glasses are not in my wardrobe).
I'm not ~ never will be ~ one of these rather unimaginative farangs who think dragging their Thai boyfriends off to greener pastures in N America or Europe is the Holy Grail. My guy at least, would probably shrivel up and die ... his genes stolen.

[bkkmfj2648]

is 4,000 eur per month ok to get by on in retirement in Thailand?

[francois]

Absolutely in my opinion.

[Manforallseasons]

hello manforallseasons,

you wrote, "if I was to retire today it would not be in Thailand"....

please tell us why - as I am interested in retiring in Thailand. I want to make sure that I don't make a big mistake - so any feedback is greatly appreciated.

thanks,
m.


I've noticed you have 42 posts and I assume you are familiar with Thailand of recent, when it retired here it was a wonderland of sleepy sex joints and many many bar boys and Fillininesque farangs , elephants etc. there is no way to discribed how wonderful it was, every evening was an adventure, one only has to see it now if they knew it then to see that Thailand is much lesser of a gay destination, the present government has stated the image of Thailand as a sex heaven must change I'm not sure how much more it will change but I take the current government at their word. Nothing lasts forever and it's been in decline for years if sex is of little interest to you it might work for you, things also cost about double than they did when I retired.
You should however keep visiting Bangkok, Pattaya , Chiangmai and Phuket and judge if anywhere suites you.
I am trying to sell my condo and leave, 2 of my friends have left already, a third is looking for an alternative.

[joe552]

So where would be your alternative?

[Impulse]

I think Smiles has a great point about the progress in Thailand. It has a lot of catching up to do compared to other countries in the area. That means higher prices for just about everything. Look at South Korea. In fact they developed with such enthusiasm they covered a river in Their Capitol with concrete and now are trying to undo it and bring some green back.

Middle class on the way. I bought a condo in anticipation of higher prices in the future as I plan on retiring in LO S at some point. A bit too early as there's a glut right now.

The evenings of exciting sexual adventure may come to an end at some point if not already. But seriously, there will always be plenty of bois to be had , if not from bars from the internet. And even if they shut GR down there will always be cruise areas.

Too much gloom and doom c'mon.

[cdnmatt]

So where would be your alternative?

Uruguay! heh, I have no idea, but will let you know how it is there.

Ummm, as for Thailand, I don't think I'd retire here. Then again, I'm way too young (and poor) to be worrying about retirement.

I'm one of those typical cases who says, once you live here for so many years, the rose tinted glasses fall off, and blah, blah, blah... you've heard it before, but it is true. I am glad I ended up in Thailand for the time I did though, as I think it bettered me as an individual in many ways. I'm more confident in my own skin now, and I don't sweat the small stuff as much, both of which I think I can thank Thai society in general for.

What they say about the rose tinted glasses is true though. When you come from the West, society here seems so polite and respectful you almost have to pinch yourself, right? Give it a few years, and you realize it's not genuine. Thais are brought up to be very selfish, greedy, and nationalistic which causes xenophobia. You even know these things after just being here a few times as a tourist, but you don't admit them to yourself. Give it a few years though, and it does get tiresome.

Thailand is a great country with great people, but don't think I'd ever retire here. Not to mention, it's not all that cheap anyway. I'm living very frugally these days saving for my Uruguay move, and I still manage to blow through 60,000/month somehow, and that's just me and the dogs -- no giks, nights out, nothing. Plus I could be wrong, but I'd say it's becoming more difficult as the years tick by to tell whether you're in Asia or out West.

[Surfcrest]

The gentle little Bangkok neighbourhood of On Nut that I remember ~ not so long ago it was the last skytrain station on the Sukhumvit Line ~ is now swimming in huge condos and my favourite old traditional Bangkok night market is being squeezed smaller and smaller from all sides. It won't be there much longer, sadly.

This is one of the most famous decaying memorials, you can see it from Sathorn Rd. Thais think it is filled with ghosts, so, naturally, no one will pull it down!

I'm not so sure this is a ghost issue, but rather as you alluded to earlier....the fact that so much has built up around everything so quickly, that there are few ways to pull this building down now without taking out the surrounding neighbourhood or worse...falling into the river.

Christianpfc posted a facinating article on his adventures with the building on Gay Thailand a year or so back.

http://www.gaythailand.com/forums/topic/8889-where-were-these-pictures-taken/

[youtube:3o2olcfc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX_3ABo7AoU[/youtube:3o2olcfc]


A sincere apology for my original post. I was merely trying to start a conversation rather than looking for personal advice. Thanks to all who contributed. I'm sure the information provided will be useful to someone who may be considering a move.

I think it's a great question, one I've struggled with myself these past years. Property ownership here in Thailand has been a roller coaster ride from the very beginning and when I retire, I'm going to be looking for something quite a bit more stable than this. I don't want to plan on settling down somewhere, where I might have to pick up and go...possibly in a hurry. Thailand, for me has become one of those kind of countries since this crisis and like Smiles said, this is the second coup...remembering 2006.

I look at my own aging mother and know that at her age and condition, she could never just pick up and move and so I have to think of myself when I'm that age and not as mobile. I prefer to set my roots in deep.

Like you Joe, I'm looking after my mother and I think about how comfortable I've been able to make her in the house in Guatemala these past few years and how I could easily live the same lifestyle myself when I'm at that age. Hopefully I'll be as mobile as she is now, but the help that we've arranged to look after both her and the house has been with us for years and is like family to us. The older I get the more things like this, being closer to home and being able to enjoy a good bottle of wine are important for me.

I'll keep coming to Thailand as long as I can suffer the 12 plus 2 hour flight which hopefully will continue for another 20 years or more.

Surfcrest

If you haven't worked it out yet there's another 1997 on the way for Thailand so I wouldn't be all doom and gloom about the cost of living in Thailand - I just wouldn't keep any money there, certainly nothing tied up long term like a condo. As for the 800,000 baht qualification for a retirement visa, do what all my friends do - lie to their embassy and get a declaration "confirming" their income. The one worry is the exorbitant cost of anything that comes close to decent health care especially if you've got a chronic disease requiring regular medication.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolomb ... e-crash/3/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2013/11/04/thailands-bubble-economy-is-heading-for-a-1997-style-crash/3/)

I now have an asset that will sell for more than I paid.You will only know that for sure when you do sell it.

Like you Joe, I'm looking after my mother too and I think about how comfortable I've been able to make her in the house in Guatemala these past few years and how I could easily live the same lifestyle when I'm at that age.She has rent boys dropping by? Wow!

[fountainhall]

You will only know that for sure when you do sell it.
Perfectly valid point. But even if it sold for nothing (which, being the centre of Bangkok, would require some sort of massive calamity), I am still better off - and will continue to be so - than if I had rented for so many years. I fully accept, though, that for anyone who is not 100% certain that this is where they want to live, renting makes far more sense until they are in a better position to decide.

[Manforallseasons]

So where would be your alternative?

The alternative for me might not be the same for you as everyone's needs and situation is different.

[Impulse]

If only Colombia was a good place to retire, those bois are so hot there. I've seen many twinks on Chaterbate that give Thai twinks a run for their money.

I am still better off - and will continue to be so - than if I had rented for so many years.So the money you spent buying the condo has no opportunity cost and the exchange rate between the Thai baht and your home currency has remained the same? You bought after 1997 I assume.

[fountainhall]

You bought after 1997 I assume.
You assume correctly. Under similar circumstances, I would do exactly the same.

You bought after 1997 I assume.
You assume correctly. Under similar circumstances, I would do exactly the same.And the opportunity cost?

[Shuee]

ive considered living/retiring in neighbouring countries to thailand due to the hiking costs of thailand now, then visiting thailand at weekends or the odd week here & there

[joe552]

As I've mentioned before, my older brother lives quite happily on his Irish state pension in Sihanoukville. It wouldn't be where I'd choose to retire (only been twice, but not impressed). But it's certainly possible to live cheaply in Asia, maybe just not in Thailand?

[Manforallseasons]

As I've mentioned before, my older brother lives quite happily on his Irish state pension in Sihanoukville. It wouldn't be where I'd choose to retire (only been twice, but not impressed). But it's certainly possible to live cheaply in Asia, maybe just not in Thailand?

You might want to spend sometime in Phnom Penh it certainly would be on my list.

[joe552]

I've spent a few days at a time in Phnom Penh and really liked it. Not sure if I could live there permanently.

[Halfhansum]

For the last 10 years i have been dreaming of retiring to LOS .
But now i find myself within a few months of being able to, my preferences have changed completely .
The good old UK, doesn`t seem so bad to me now , and i actualy like the changing seasons, and the bearable temperatures.
So personaly, i think i will stay where i am, and try to spend the coldest british months, in LOS. .
(I Suppose it helps that the years have lowered my libido considerably ..lol )

[bobsaigon2]

Ah yes, the libido, or lack of same, in our declining years, is really the only measure of how good or bad an idea it is to retire in Thailand. Rent, not buy, a place in LOS as long as you're sexually active. When the urges dwindle, it's time to head to some place where the heat is less oppressive, the language is more intelligible, the culture less enigmatic, the cost of medical care and quality of treatment are acceptable. IMHO, absent the sex factor, life in Thailand simply does not have enough redeeming qualities to make retirement an attractive option. Of course there is the exception in those older farang who are in an LTR with a Thai guy and either require the partner to take on the role of caregiver, or simply can't find a way to honorably disappear from the scene.

[Jellybean]

An interesting topic Joe with quite a broad range of replies. I had to take early retirement on health grounds around 10-11 years ago. I wanted to buy a second property in Spain, my favourite foreign country prior to my illness, and spend the winter months there. At the time I was experiencing some difficulty coping with cold weather due, I think, to problems with my immune system. Coincidentally, a friend decided to retire early around that time as he simply had had enough of the rat race. He chose to buy a property in southern Spain, which would have suited me too. Unfortunately, I could not afford a property there and retain one in the UK. Another friend suggested Thailand, where he assured me I could easily afford a second property and keep my home in the UK. He also assured me that I could find a sexual partner in Thailand, although I was somewhat sceptical, having had no knowledge of the boy bars as I had not been a visitor to Thailand when I was healthy.

After two trips out to Thailand, and experiencing the boy bars, I bought a house in Hua Hin because thatтАЩs where my friend and another friend had properties. Without being unduly dramatic I didnтАЩt really expect to live more than 3 or 4 years, having had a second tumour after a period of radiotherapy. This view was confirmed some years later by my surgeon who assumed I would get a third and final tumour.

Happily for me, 12 years later, I am still here and doing rather well health wise. However, as the years passed I found that living in Hua Hin did not suit me. About 6 years ago I bought a condo in Bangkok and rented out my house. But latterly the house started to become a millstone and, to my great relief, I was successful in selling it last November.

With the benefit of hindsight I wish I had not bought property in Thailand, especially a house which entailed the setting up of a company to own the house and land and the annual cost of preparing and submitting accounts. But looking at the issue positively, I believe I earned more in rental income than I would have earned in bank interest. Moreover, the house was sold for a slightly higher price than its purchase price. But given that 9 years had elapsed, I was however surprised at how little the value of the property had increased. The saving grace was that when converted back to pounds sterling, the gain was much larger due to currency exchange fluctuations, which produced a very welcome capital gain, even allowing for the payment of Capital Gains Tax in the United Kingdom.

I have no regrets about buying a condo in Bangkok, but again, with the benefit of hindsight, I think it might have been wiser to simply rent a property. Doing so would have allowed for greater flexibility of location and given me a larger bank balance with which I might have spent more time travelling to other Asian countries, something I havenтАЩt done at the time of writing.

But the overriding factor here is that I did not burn my bridges, I kept my property in the UK. I have met gay and straight expats who informed me that they regretted moving out to Thailand on a permanent basis. Some Brits I have known sold their properties and returned to the UK.

Over the years I have found that around 6 months a year is more than enough for me to spend in Thailand, usually between October and April. Another factor, peculiar to my situation, has been the need to return to the UK every year for further surgery. I canтАЩt say if I might have decided to spend longer in Thailand or live there permanently if it hadnтАЩt been for my medical issues.

My recommendation would be to keep the door open, retain your property in Ireland and rent a property in Thailand тАж you seem quite at home in Pattaya from my reading of your posts. But if you fancy a change of scene, renting makes it considerably easier to up sticks and move elsewhere. I think the watchword here is тАШflexibilityтАЩ.

You could also consider renting out your property in Ireland to give you some extra and rather useful income.

I have not yet reached the official retirement age in the UK, so am living off my employerтАЩs pension, which doesnтАЩt exactly allow me to live a luxurious lifestyle, it is however more than adequate for living in Thailand and keeping a base in the UK.

Lastly, I agree with the comments made by Halfhansum. I too like three of the seasons and enjoy being here in the UK for the spring, summer and autumn. I believe I have the best of both worlds and it suits me just fine, although I accept it might not suit others.

[joe552]

I don't own a property here in Ireland, Jellybean, and would have no desire to own one overseas either (even if I had the money, which I don't). But your advice is spot on for those thinking of re-locating there. If I were to ignore the retirement visa option and do visa runs instead (becoming increasingly difficult according to Thaivisa.com) I could probably live a decent enough life in a small studio in Pattaya. But quite honestly, I've no idea how I will feel when my mother eventually dies and I have to make a decision. In the meantime, it's been really interesting to read so many different points of view.

[fountainhall]

And the opportunity cost?
Anyone who purchased a condo in central Bangkok using overseas funds when the US$ was in the region of Bt. 42 тАУ 45, has lived continuously in it - and started putting funds into the Thai stock market when it was standing at not much over 200, has done pretty well. Given that the dot.com bubble, the SARS crash and the 2008 financial crisis decimated a lot of savings, I wonder to what opportunity costs you refer.

[travelerjim]

Thank you Joe...in retrospect....

Your OP has resulted in varied experiences being shared from expats...
To retire in TH or not? To buy or rent? and more interesting tidbits of advice.

Best of luck to you...and all board members...decisions, decisions...decisions!

[a447]

Yes, a great topic, Joe. It certainly makes for very interesting reading.

I bought a condo in Bali a number of years ago on the beach in Kuta; just kind of on a whim. I soon found myself coming here frequently, just to get value out of the property. I ended up selling - just in time, as it turned out - and was lucky enough to make a tidy profit. I'd never but property overseas again; I'd rent or just stay long term in a nice hotel near the gay bars.

Jellybean, you've been through the wars, but it appears you are back on track and enjoying life again. Good for you!

[loke]

I'm not retired but living here for almost 3 years now. there's a big 'digital nomad' group here in thailand...
a lot of location-independent / self employed guys and gals in Bangkok and Chiang Mai. that's a big
draw for me. a low cost of living while building a business and living a bit of adventure.


I'm in the same situation myself. How do you solve the visa problem ?
I have been using ED visa route but now that option seems to get tougher.

[netrix]

yep. ed visa but now will have to deal with 90 day renewals / extensions or whatever the official term is.
i have a business partner in the states who runs a large web design office in bangkok -- we're looking into
"hiring" me as a "consultant" so i'll be legally allowed to stay with non-imm and work permit.

[Manforallseasons]

[quote="joe552"]I won't be in a position to retire for about 7 years, but I wonder what made you choose Thailand as your retirement destination. Food. temples, boys, cheap living costs? What would be your best piece of advice to someone thinking about retiring there.

After living in Thailand for many years if one of your reasons for considering retiring here is that you've known it as a "Gay destination" the way things have been going in seven years Thailand will be off the charts as such a destination.

[Shuee]

actually i should have said get there quick & make the most of it before theres nothing left on the scene at all!

[Dodger]

Joe,

Great topic.

I plan to retire in Thailand so I can have sex with young gorgeous guys. If I'm on a controlled budget when I retire (which I will be) I may only be able to afford this luxury a few times a month - but that's a hell of a lot better than zero times a month if I retired here in the States.

Secondly, I adapt well to the tropical climate and can't imagine hobbling to a store in Chicago when I'm old and grey sliding around on the ice while 40 degree below zero wind chills frost my glasses and freeze my hearing aids to my head. I think I'll take a pass on that option.

I like Thai food...the serentity of the ocean...the people (in the non-tourist destinations), the hustle & bustle at the morning markets...the ability to travel anywhere in the Kingdom on an air conditioned bus for less than 20 bucks and the fact that the overall cost-of-living is half of that in the States.

Someone here mentioned the fact that he would not consider retiring in Thailand because of the political unrest. Here in the States we are still fighting in the desserts of Afganistan, launching attacks on ISIS in Iraq and Syria (shortly)...have our dicks stuck in the middle of the mess between Israel and Hamas and are postured to pick a fight with the Russians in defense of Ukrainia. The whole planet is completly submersed in political unrest...making Thailand look like Camelot.

As far as the expense of retirement in Thailand goes; If a person can not afford to retire in Thailand - he can not afford to retire anywhere (IMO).

[Bobett]

Doger Iv lived here on my pension and a bit of savings for 5 years and everything you said is spot on. Oh and next january I get the UK state pension so even better.All these guys who think they need 100,000 - 300,000bht a month to live here are mad Are they staying at the royal cliff? as you get older you dont need to have sex every few hours and it becomes more inportant to have a nice lifestyle. I do what i want I sleep,eat,go out,party and yes have sex when I want. If your health is ok you dont need to be rich to live here. Always good to have some cash in the bank for medical problems.

Ok I posted this after spending time with some nice boys in a bar in sunee.So Im pissed cost me 1000bht small tips for boys included. What a way to spend a wet sunday night. That would not happen in Uk Etc. Good night all :ymparty:

Where do you plan to die? Can you afford extensive care if you have a heart attack and require a triple by-pass? Oh, and good luck crossing the road. By the way, falling over (often in the shower) is a constant risk as you get older. Do you have some money put aside for the hip replacement?

[Dodger]

[quote:23zwws2j]Bobett wrote:

All these guys who think they need 100,000 - 300,000bht a month to live here are mad Are they staying at the royal cliff?[/quote:23zwws2j]

Actually, many of them do.

There seems to be two distinct categories of farang who visit or reside in Thailand (regardless of their financial status): 1) Those who prefer maintaining the same lifestyle with similar comforts and conditions they have (or had) back in the West, and 2) Those who adapt to Thailand and are comfortable living a more conservative lifestyle similar Thai culture. Category 1 either choses not to adapt or cannot adapt. Category 2 either has a desire to adapt or adapts naturally. I think those who feel they need 100,000 - 200,000 bt/month or more to retire in LOS comfortably are Category 1.

I have friends in both categories. Some of my Category 1 friends (xpats) pay to own and maintain automobiles, wear the same four-season clothes they did in their home countries (I know that sounds ridiculous - but it's true), shop at places like Friendship Village for their food which costs more than in their home countries or places like Royal Garden and Central festivle (intended for tourists who don't know the cost of the things they are buying), i.e. 4,000 baht for a pair of Levi jeans which cost half that where they were made or 600 baht t shirts that you can buy for 100 baht at one of the Thai markets (they're all copies anyway), etc. They commonly frequent farang restaurants on a regular basis paying as much or more than they would in the West for their meals which are rarley as good as what you would get in the West, seem intent on always having the latest electronic gadgets, i.e, I-phone 5 (4 just won't do), satelite TV with 100 chanels including all those western pay-for-view movies and are more inclined to return to their home countries for regular visits costing them tens of thousands of baht per trip (or more).

My Category 2 friends, many of which maintain tight budgets, seem content with eating Thai food - which for all pratical purposes is much healthier than western food, are comfortable wearing shorts, t shirts and sandals are their normal dress - all the western seasonal clothing got left behind, wouldn't think twice about owning a car...too expensvie to maintain and totally impractical for most (not all) farang lifestyles, seem more than content with their 800 baht Nokia mobiles (GPS, U-Tube videos and E:Mails not a necessity), shop at the local Thai markets paying Thai prices and lving in modest sized dwellings similar to Thais - versus a 4 million baht penthouse at Royal Cliff.

Each person has his own unique lifestyle preference, but for those who think you can't live (and live happy and healthy) in Thailand on less than 100,000 - 2,000 bt/month I believe you are mistaking.

[joe552]

My concerns would echo kommentariat's points. While I'm sure it's possible to live more cheaply there than in the West, the cost of medical care would frighten me. I have access to free health care here in Ireland, and even if I retired in Spain, I would have free access to emergency care. If people can afford adequate insurance, good for them, but it's a major concern for me.

[a447]

I also agree with Kommentariat's post. Health costs and the lack of first world health facilities is one reason I would never retire in a third world country.

It costs around $100,000 to be medivaced out of Bali back to Australia should you need decent health care.

Hobbling across the street in a zimmer frame would also be a bit of a worry! Lol

And as for travelling anywhere by long distance bus on any road in Thailand - forget it. Their accident statistics are truly frightening, if newspaper reports are anything to go by.

One of the good things about visiting a third world country is I can leave.

[Up2U]

I also agree with Kommentariat's post. Health costs and the lack of first world health facilities is one reason I would never retire in a third world country.

It costs around $100,000 to be medivaced out of Bali back to Australia should you need decent health care. ..... .
My read on Kommentariat post was future retirees do not plan for the inevitable. Cancer, heart disease, diabetic complications, falls, accidents, people always think it happens to the other guy. Tourists come to Thailand and other countries like India and the Philippines because they offer world class medical care at affordable prices. But many expats are under insured, have insufficient savings, or have no insurance and are living on edge. They checked their brains in at Suvarnabhumi on arrival. Returning to your home country is not always an option. The Brits now have a residency requirement for their system. Medicare doesn't pay in a foreign country, same for NZ. I agree I wouldn't retire in any 3rd world country but many do here in Thailand because of the high standard of care at the private hospitals in Bangkok and some in Pattaya.

[Dodger]

I wouldn't allow "fear" to guide my boat, i.e., fear of slipping in a shower, fear of having a bus accident, etc., as these things can happen to anyone, anywhere.

It only makes good sense to have health insurance.

Honestly, when I hear people say that they fear having a medical problem or being hospitalized in Thailand versus being back in their home country when this event takes place - I think it really has more to do with the "fear" of being alone without the family support system in the picture versus the comparison between Thai and westerrn health insurance for the mere fact that health insurance in Thailand costs less than in your home country and there are some very good hospitals in Thailand. Bunrungrad in Bangkok is ranked as one of the best international hospitals in the world. Bangkok/Pattaya Hospital is also adequate in my opinion and Queen Sirikit (Sattahip) is considered excellent with low rates (almost Thai standard rates for farang) with excellent care from all accounts.

Living (or retiring) in Thailand or any other third-world country is certainly not for every one. I imagine it is a very very small percentage of people who actually do this. If you have the need to stay connected to your home country, feel a constant sense of isolation being alone in a third-world country for extended periods of time, can't fully adapt to the culture or environment or fear being injured or hospitalized without your family nearby than this is not for you.

We're all going to die. If you need your family by your side than stay home. If you wouldn't mind having the last boy you bagged standing next to your hospital bed ignoring you as he pushes buttons on his smart phone as you take your final gasps of air - than maybe Thailand is for you...555

[francois]

Although not yet a full time retiree in Thailand, I would have little to no support if hospitalized in my home country. However in Thailand I could count on my bf plus other farang friends. Also luckily enough to have insurance to cover me, at least for the present.

[aot871]

For me its the cost of med insurance which kills living in thailand . Being retired , here in the uk it costs me nothing , but a friend whos in his early 70s, pays nearly 200,000 bht a year, thats the killer.

Dodgers philosophy is Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you may die?

[Dodger]

BrisbaneGuy wrote:

Dodgers philosophy is Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you may die?

More correctly stated: "Eat, drink and be merry because you haven't died yet."

[latintopxxx]

sounds like a lot of people are making excuses why they cannot retire in Thailand and enjoy life. If by the time you reach 60 you havent got a monthly income of a least EURO 4000.00 then you most definitely did not plan for retirement and only have yourself to blame. International medical insurance is widely available and as rightly pointed out there is excellent medical facilities available in Bangkok; and in a pinch Singapore is only 2 hours away. Personally my intentuion is not to retire full time in Thailand but to spend up to four months a year here. There are too many places I still need to experience and far too many men I still need to sample before I limit myself. Life is short...dont procastinate.

There are hugely expensive medical facilities in Thailand and as most hospitals are for-profit they will endeavour to squeeze every last baht out of you before you are discharged or die. White face = plenty of money in their eyes. Four thousand Euro a month won't last very long if you're not paying exhorbitant health insurance premiums, far in excess of what you would pay in your home country. And there is no subsidised pharmaceutical scheme either.

In my experience Thailand's doctors even at the best facilities are woefully out of touch with the most recent advances in medicine. A friend of mine who is a diabetic and sees the UK's leading specialists annually for a review of his condition was told when in Bangkok by (allegedly) Thailand's leading diabetes specialist that his medication was wrong and that in particular he shouldn't be taking two drugs (which the Thai specialist named) in combination. On his return to the UK he saw his specialist here and was told that the most recent research had reversed the view expressed in Bangkok as long ago as six or seven years and that all indications are that using the two drugs in combination is extremely beneficial. Another friend living in Bangkok was determinedly steered away from the standard treatment for his particular condition as it involved a course of injections. His doctor told him many Thai medical staff don't like giving injections; pills are by far the preferred method even when less effective. A third friend is being treated periodically for arthritis by having steroid injections; he was told by the (Thai) intern in his English hospital not to be treated in Bangkok but to go to Singapore if he needed a "top up" while he was away. That is for a simple, routine procedure.

Certainly the Thais tout their medical facilities as being world class but that doesn't necessarily make them so.

[firecat69]

I could list just as many people who have had great care at Bumrungrad and at very reasonable rates even if not insured .. I can also list plenty of people who have had bad care in the best hospitals in the USA and with revered Doctors.

There are no guarantees anywhere. The biggest problem in Thailand is even if you can afford insurance it will not be available at all when you reach a certain age. So you better have plenty of cash in the bank!!

[latintopxxx]

I refuse to live my life ruled by fear and limit my experiences to within a 100km radius of a western standard hospital (what ever that means), a heart attack of a bad accidebt can happen anywhere and at any time. Best is to ensure that you have adequate insurance to stabalise you and eventually get you to the nearest western standard medical facility like Singapore!!

[Yraen]

I have read this whole thread with great interest. I also agree that one cannot suspend oneself in a cocoon of fearful anticipation --- but one can plan in advance. The accidents you might experience in Thailand could happen anywhere - a slip and fall in the shower and you may have a busted hip. Not a good look wherever it happens.

Many here seem to be concerned about costs. Me too. Some examples.

Since the early 2000s, I have regularly had dental work done at Bumrungrad at what was (IMO) good value for money. Until 18 or so months ago, when all the fees more than doubled.
I have since been getting treatment at BKK Christian Hospital (BCH) in Silom Rd or Nakornthon H on Rama II.

These last few months, I have been researching cataract surgery and lens implants. I asked for quotes from BKK Hospital and Bumrungrad. Both suggested amounts in Baht where the figures should only appear on the odometer of an older car. Both worked out at a little more than double the Sydney price which, in itself, causes a sudden intake of breath. (I feel this may be another demo of "when business is slow, double the price".) I am in the process of getting data from Queen Sirikit Satahip and other places. Does any board member have any experience with eye surgery in LOS? I would appreciate your advice.

[bobsaigon2]

http://www.fvhospital.com/en/medical-se ... e-surgery/ (http://www.fvhospital.com/en/medical-services/our-specialties/surgical-specialities/ophthalmology-refractive-surgery/)
Interested in a trip to Ho Chi Minh City? You'd have to contact them to see what the fees are compared to Bangkok.

[Up2U]

I have read this whole thread with great interest. I also agree that one cannot suspend oneself in a cocoon of fearful anticipation --- but one can plan in advance. The accidents you might experience in Thailand could happen anywhere - a slip and fall in the shower and you may have a busted hip. Not a good look wherever it happens.

Many here seem to be concerned about costs. Me too. Some examples.

Since the early 2000s, I have regularly had dental work done at Bumrungrad at what was (IMO) good value for money. Until 18 or so months ago, when all the fees more than doubled.
I have since been getting treatment at BKK Christian Hospital (BCH) in Silom Rd or Nakornthon H on Rama II.

These last few months, I have been researching cataract surgery and lens implants. I asked for quotes from BKK Hospital and Bumrungrad. Both suggested amounts in Baht where the figures should only appear on the odometer of an older car. Both worked out at a little more than double the Sydney price which, in itself, causes a sudden intake of breath. (I feel this may be another demo of "when business is slow, double the price".) I am in the process of getting data from Queen Sirikit Satahip and other places. Does any board member have any experience with eye surgery in LOS? I would appreciate your advice.
You may wish to ask this question or research the Thaivisa medical forum. In America where I had my cataract surgery performed they do one eye at a time on an outpatient basis. Second operation had major complications so take cataract surgery very seriously. The primary driver is the costs of the lens which are typically imported. The multifocals (which I don't recommend) are considerably more expensive. Get a quotation from Rutnin Eye Hospital in Bangkok (on Asoke), they're the best.

[Nirish guy]

Believe it or not a quick ( and cheap ) flight to Europe for treatment (Poland and other places and even just over border to me here to the Republic of Ireland for example) may not be just as crazy an option as you might first think as prices there can are low enough to start with and then ( from my point of view at least) when converting to the Euro there's a benefit to be had there too - but even without that Euro conversion for our US brethren etc I'm told that prices still offer a reasonable alternative for them to going to SE Asia these days for some treatments.....even after the airfare and standards are as you would imagine quite high I'm told, just a thought in case it's of interest to anyone.

[2lz2p]

I had cataract surgery at Bangkok Hospital Pattaya at the end of May. It was done as inpatient care, with one eye done on Monday, the second on Tuesday (after Doctor examined the right eye to be sure there were no problems), and was released on Wednesday. The Doctor was very professional and experienced. I am well satisfied with the results. I had the mono lenses rather than the multi (which are more expensive and not covered by my US Health Insurance). The total costs was 169,034 baht. Since cataract surgery is mostly done in USA as outpatient with a few weeks between each eye, I was concerned that my Insurance might exclude the inpatient costs and reimburse me at the 85% outpatient rate. But, when they paid the claim, it was the entire amount at my 100% inpatient rate.

Queen Sirikit in Sattahip has a sign posted that foreigners pay 50% more than Thais -- even so, if they do the surgery, it would probably be quite a bit less than an International Hospital even with the surcharge. My bf has used Queen Sirikit and it is a fine hospital - most of the doctors speak English, but not so for medical staff. Also, it being a Government hospital, expect long waits to see a doctor and schedule non-emergency surgery.

[bruce_nyc]

Reasons I chose to retire in Thailand:

(1) cheap amazing sex with a virtually unlimited number of hot young men who are eager to please older chubby white guys

(2) cheap living ---- cheap rent, cheap food, cheap housekeepers, cheap massages, cheap sex, you name it

Points:

It doesn't have to be permanent. Think of it as an extended holiday. If you don't like it after 6 months or a year, go back.

It doesn't even have to be full time. My retirement visa allows me to come and go freely. My plan is actually for my bf and I to be in New York 40% of the time, Bangkok 40% of the time, and traveling the world 20% of the time.

Never never never buy. Rent. Rent a condo. Rent a car. Rent a bf. Rent everything. Never buy.