WTF? Neal thread locked for what?

[newalaan2]

Typical, typical, typical forum owners whim. Just because the Board owner, for whatever reason, has made the decision to close lock the thread......fuck the members opinions, needs, wants! one individual takes a decision on behalf of all the others.

Who asked for the thread to be closed? Even if any did ask, it is hardly going to be representative of the whole membership.

CLOSED/LOCKED FOR WHAT EXACTLY??

Some members perhaps had more to add to this thread or even had yet to make their first chance to spew.

Diabolical decision......but just what we have come to expect. Disappointing to say the least.

[joe552]

Surely anyone who had an opinion has had ample opportunity to express it. I for one am happy with the decision. The guy is dead = let go of your anger or annoyance - it achieves nothing. Time to move on

[Up2U]

Everything that needs to be said has been said. The wooden stake has been driven, the coffin nailed.

[catawampuscat]

Agreed, time to pull the hatchet out and bury it. In time the hatred will fade as will the bad memories.

The Sunday funnies # 90 is a clever consolidation of the Neal thread.

[Manforallseasons]

Thank heaven this puppy died long ago. :ymparty:

[newalaan2]

Everything that needs to be said has been said.
How on earth can you possibly know that? You have absolutely no idea if everything that 'needs said' has been or not, that is simply a random, baseless personal opinion of your own.


Surely anyone who had an opinion has had ample opportunity to express it. I for one am happy with the decision. The guy is dead = let go of your anger or annoyance - it achieves nothing. Time to move on How do you know contributing to this thread 'achieves nothing'? only in your opinion. I realise from your previous posts on this thread you are not keen to see angry responses laid out with regards to Neal,fair enough it maybe achieves nothing for you, so don't read or respond to it, but why deny others the opportunity to vent, praise or more importantly "set the record straight" if needsbe. What is it to you if the thread continues? and what does locking the thread actually "achieve"?

If other members still feel a want to contribute to the thread, all you....Up2U.... Catawampuscat....and surfcrest need do is simply not click on and read the responses. It is by far the busiest thread in terms of views and posts here for years! does that in itself not give 'some hint' that what you are saying goes against the actual fact of the matter? which is that members are STILL reading and were STILL responding right up to the very day of surfcrests self-admitted U-turn, done without a single reason offered.

When this thread is ready to die-off it will/can do so naturally as ANY thread can if there is no further interest it will simply slip down the front page, I jut don't get moderators taking decision on behalf of the whole membership when there is no actual need or reason behind it other than a personal whim, if there is legally problematic content fine, delete that content, but a lot of members have taken the time to contribute to this thread and it clearly is not yet ready to die off. There has been a lot of interesting, eye-opening certainly to me, facts and information come out of this thread which have put some things into perspective.

The whole concept of a forum is to post thoughts, info, vent, praise, opinionise...posting is the be-all and end-all, raison d'etre, the whole point to it's existence, no opportunity to proactively stifle contributions should be acted upon, certainly not a thread which will prove to be the most popular here for some years and certainly not one locked without an actual reason behind it.

[Brad the Impala]

Agreed that the thread was ready to be closed.

[netrix]

since it looks like my post on that thread triggered the admin's response to lock the thread, i'll comment here.

the decision by surfcrest to close the thread is really strange, and exactly the stuff that led to so many people disliking neal's tactics on this forum.
1. it's hypocrytical. you can't just make up the rules as you go along and break them when you want.
2. it's inaccurate. the thread obviously wasn't dead.

if my comments were out of line, then delete them. but know that censorship (especially after vowing that it won't happen) is the reason for the decline in membership here during the previous owner's control. lock posts, lose members.
I had every bit as much right to say what I did as Surfcrest did himself -- and many others. I kept my mouth shut for weeks and only responded when the ass-kissing of people who never knew neal got to be ridiculous.

how does it feel surf, to be compared to your nemesis? you're doing exactly the thing you and others claimed to hate the most about neal as a forum moderator... you're being a hypocrite. good job.

[Jellybean]

I agree with the comments made by newalaan2 above, and think the following quote from him neatly sums up my thoughts:

When this thread is ready to die-off it will/can do so naturally as ANY thread can if there is no further interest it will simply slip down the front page ...
I did not make any comment on the: Neal, former owner of SGT has died тАж thread because my only dealings with Neal, apart from saying тАШhelloтАЩ to him on two occasions as I entered his bar, was through a few exchanged, pleasant and uncontroversial PMs. Other than that, I had no personal interaction with him. I therefore felt I had nothing useful to contribute to the thread. But I did appreciate that many members, who knew him, had some very strong feelings about Neal and felt the need to put the record straight as they saw it.

I think SurfcrestтАЩs original decision was the right one for the reasons stated, namely:

I have no intention of closing it, locking it or moving it anywhere. It will run it's course, slowly drift down to Page 2 and beyond, to be forgotten like the topic at hand...

When this topic holds no further interest for the forumтАЩs members it will gradually slip down the page and eventually into forum history. IтАЩm not sure why the current owner had a change of mind, especially when the subject matter was still active, for goodness sake, as recently as yesterday, 4 posts were added to the thread. It therefore makes no sense to me to arbitrarily shut down the topic and thereby stifle any further debate/comment when quite clearly some members still wish to comment. In my view the topic should be allowed to fade away naturally. When there is nothing further to be said about the topic, as per the original decision by the owner, this sorry discussion will very quickly disappear from our thoughts and weтАЩll turn attention to other, more topical and interesting subject matter.

[scottish-guy]

Re: the thread being locked, I personally don't feel outraged - but if the Admin makes a policy statement he should stick by it unless there's a compelling reason to change - and I can see no such reason.

It's rather arrogant to say that everybody who wanted to comment has done so and it's bizarre to say they've had ample opportunity when the topic was publicly declared to be open-ended.

All that will happen now is that comments about you-know-who will occasionally appear in other topics and disrupt the thread, whereas if the original thread had been left open had been left open, any off-topic references could have been moved there.

[lego]

Come on, newalaan2, that thread had really run its course. I knew it when I saw TJ's second (!) "RIP Neal" post, apparently having forgotten his first one he had posted 2-3 weeks earlier. Even those members who don't yet suffer from dementia would sooner or later just regurgitate the same old stuff.

[travelerjim]

lego...

I had NOT forgotten my first posting...
But I felt it was time to bring closure ...RIP Neal.

tj

[netrix]

mr. travlerjim,

if there was such a thing as an afterlife...
why should someone "rest in peace" when they caused such distress for so many others?
and who gives you the right to tell anyone else when it's time for anything?

and even YOUR comment here is evidence that the thread wasn't finished or even YOU
wouldn't feel the need to keep commenting.

[Marsilius]

I had NOT forgotten my first posting...
But I felt it was time to bring closure ...RIP Neal.

tj

Closure comes naturally and inevitably when a discussion has run its own course.

As we can already see from many comments posted above, the last thing that arbitrarily closing the thread will have achieved is true closure in its psychological and moral senses.

[Up2U]

Everything that needs to be said has been said.
How on earth can you possibly know that? You have absolutely no idea if everything that 'needs said' has been or not, that is simply a random, baseless personal opinion of your own.
================_
This thread had been slipping further and further down the list and the board owner wisely decided to archive it for all those that wish to relive the past can do so. To keep it open and be given new life, a year or months from now serves no purpose. It's like the patient laying on the the psychiatrist couch desperately seeking closure but the doctor won't let him. Maybe SC seeks closure himself, it's his board. No need to pour salt on open wounds.

[scottish-guy]

Well, the thing is - Surfcrest will need to decide how many threads he is willing to close down, as is clear people still have things to say, and effectively this thread has now become "Neal#2"

Perhaps we shall reach the stage where all mention or criticism of Neal is banned. This is, of course, exactly what the apologists are seeking - i.e. to stifle the debate, and all the psycho-babble about "closure" is just a red herring IMHO

[arsenal]

Neal was dying when he actually took over this board and he decided to go out in a blaze of blood. It was obvious from the beginning what sort of a person he was and it was also clear that he thrived on conflict. He used it to give himself energy. If you chose to play his game then you also chose to play it by his rules. if you lost the so be it. And that is what so many posters are bitter about. That Neal beat them. Of course he beat you, you played by HIS rules. Idiots.

[bucknaway]

I think I'm ready for closure so please lock this thread. Y'all are not ready for closure too? Too bad....

Now I will keep checking this thread for input and I will grow more and more tired of each interesting thing posted because though I think this topic should be closed I am still interested in what's being said even though I don't want anymore to be said.

Okay, lock it up mr Surf!

I'm joking! I'm joking!

[scottish-guy]

Congratulations Arsenal - one of your most brainless posts yet - and that's saying something.

I don't recognise any "winning" or "losing" in this whole saga - but since you put it forward (and invite me to take a position) then I for one certainly don't feel I "lost".

As far as I'm aware I'm still breathing - which is more than can be said for the guy who, according to you, "beat" us.

PS: I'm sure there are lots of SGT members with serious health problems - they just don't all make a broadway musical out of it, with more curtain calls than Ethel fucking Merman. Take jinks for example.

[Surfcrest]

As much as I dislike moderating a post or a topic, there will come a time when I'll make a moderating decision...such as locking a thread. If I enjoyed moderating, I'd be doing it all the time. Apart from moving the odd thing to the Holding Room for a few weeks, you're probably not seeing much. When was the last time you recalled a thread being locked?

From this thread and the last, you will see that the membership clearly sits on both sides, solidly with this issue. There are those who feel strongly about us speaking ill of the dead, no matter who we are talking about. There are those that have heard enough of the discussion, especially from those coming back for more comments...myself included. Then on the other side of the fence, we have those that don't believe this topic had run it's full course. Also, with those folks are the members that don't believe any thread should ever be locked, moderated...what have you.

This decision isn't about me doing what I please and it certainly didn't have to do with how I feel / felt about Neal. This is about the membership and doing the right thing for those members most upset by that thread. If locking that thread or locking any thread is going to drive anyone away from Sawatdee, or stop a member from posting...then that's a "might be" / "could happen" that I have to compare to those who were sickened by that thread and seeing it hang around for so long...so I decided to lock it.

All these "might be's / could be's" with respect to future posts being poisoned or taken off the tracks and with me having to moderate, when they contain bits of "Neal Talk" haven't happened yet. The only reason we ever had a "No TBB" rule was to starve them of things to write about us, to kill that Board and that was done...mission complete.

I thought when jinks passed away, that I'd have my hands too full moderating the Board and that sooner or later I'd have to take on a moderator. The fact is, I have very little to do...meaning I do so little moderating. The complaints I receive about my moderating usually revolve around me doing not enough. I regularly get asked by one member to moderate another member, which I don't...and he gets mad. I'm not worried about the membership possibly taking future threads off the tracks with a side-bar "Neal" discussion, based on something that hadn't been said on this locked thread. I have more confidence in the membership, the way things have been flowing this past year and the fact that few topics go off-track now, for any reason.

I'm not going to make future "Neal" discussions, off limits. I would hope though, that more would forget all that so that we can focus on why we are really here.

Surfcrest

[a447]

Whatever happened to the idea that members have the choice of reading what they want and ignoring threads they are not interested in. If some posters are "upset" or "sickened" by the contents if this thread, let them exercise their right to ignore it. No need to stifle discussion/ comment by arbitrarily locking this, or any other thread. You are heading down the path Neal so disastrously took.

Joe, don't read a thread you find distasteful -easy. Similarly, those who think enough has been written about Neal already should just ignore the entire thread. It's interesting that they are coming back to a topic they dislike so much.

Arsenal, you have completely misunderstood the conflicts between Neal and his detractors - totally and utterly misconstrued what went on. Please explain how you consider being threatened with physical harm - from being beaten up by a bunch if his paid thugs to being killed in some dark alley - to be some part of a "game." It was certainly no game that I recall wanting to play, but to you it was as you, and many other posters here, never saw the real Neal. Those of us unfortunate enough to have suffered his threats and constant harassment have the right to report those facts and set the record straight. Others have the right to have nothing more to do with this topic or to have their sensibilities further offended.

As for those members who are ready for closure then why on earth are you in this thread?? And what are your feelings towards those who disagree with you on that? Do you think they should, therefore, have their right to comment taken away- simply because YOU over the topic??

Netrix, I think it may have been my post that lead to the closure. The same happened after I posted on another board and KhorTose complained to the board owner. My comment was the last one before the thread was locked. Pity, as I was only doing what do many others were doing - putting the record straight. Members can become reluctant to post if they think their comments/opinions may be censored. That's exactly what we saw before, and I thought we were trying to avoid.

[Surfcrest]

You are heading down the path Neal so disastrously took.

The path that Neal disastrously took happened almost each and every day with so many various threads that irked him this way or that. This is ONE thread, being closed...the reasons why were given in my last post in this thread on the topic. Closing it had nothing to do with your last comment a447 or anyone else's...but rather the fact that you can only drag a guy around for so long until it's enough. Khor tose chose to leave on his own because he wanted to post objectionable things about the new Thai government / Junta and the Thai monarchy. the-great-unspoken-t30675.html (http://sawatdeenetwork.com/forum/the-great-unspoken-t30675.html) which is against the Rules, against the Law and something I could not allow.

Sorry about that...

Surfcrest

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/Surfcrest/Dragged_by_a_horse.jpg

[scottish-guy]

I just want to add that in the movie, the dialogue from the guy being dragged is:

"Well, that's the end of THAT suit!"

[arsenal]

SG. You apparently knew Neal for many years, knew what sort of a person he was and yet still chose to jump into bed with him when offered a position of power as moderator. A little pompous of you I'm sure you'd agree. Then you cry foul when Neal turns out to be the person you knew him to be all along. Lesson learned, think with your head, not your ego.

A447. I don't doubt what you are saying. But there are avenues to persue. No one needs to be threatened by anyone online. But this is my point. Those people who decided to fight with him did so on his territory, on his board and by his rules.

[francois]

lego...

I had NOT forgotten my first posting...
But I felt it was time to bring closure ...RIP Neal. tj

tj; I enjoyed that little post of yours, RIP Neal, Gone but not forgotten.

Very droll (amusing in an odd way; whimsically humorous; waggish).

[lego]

Arsenal, you have completely misunderstood the conflicts between Neal and his detractors - totally and utterly misconstrued what went on. Please explain how you consider being threatened with physical harm - from being beaten up by a bunch if his paid thugs to being killed in some dark alley - to be some part of a "game." It was certainly no game that I recall wanting to play, but to you it was as you, and many other posters here, never saw the real Neal.
Just out of curiosity and because I've got too much time on my hands, as Surfcrest seems to know well, let's hear more about the real Neal! Did he ever follow up on any of these violent threats, by actually having someone beaten up or killed? To the best of SGT's collective knowledge, I mean? My guess is no, from what I've read so far he was just your typical "internet bully" or "keyboard warrior", with the occasional fit of stalker phone calls thrown in for good measure. But please correct me if I'm wrong, so that I can duly adjust my opinion about him.

From reading the reports I've read so far, and putting them into perspective or asking myself what I would have done in case Neal had "victimized" me: I don't know, but if some random Pattaya sleazeball threatened me with all kinds of vicious shit, then indeed, I would probably understand that as some kind of a sick "game" of his and just laugh/shrug it off. If it gets really annoying, maybe even give him a healthy dose of his own medicine, but I wouldn't waste my time with either lawyers or the police. Would I feel threatened? Would I hire extra bodyguards? Would I check if my life insurance is up to it? Most certainly not. It could be argued that he thrived on all the attention he got.

[Marsilius]

I think that you are underestimating the potential for real violence in Thailand.

It is clear from references to Neal's - selective - "generosity" that he did have a bit of cash to throw around. The apparent widespread availability of thugs for hire in Thailand, as frequently reported in the media, might make me rather more worried than you about the likelihood of an "accident" occurring if I were to upset someone as unstable and volatile as Neal appears to have been.

[a447]

Did he ever follow up on any of these violent threats, by actually having someone beaten up or killed?

That I don't know. What I do know is that he spent a lot of time trying to find out my true identity. He made sure that I knew he was aware of where I stayed in Pattaya, which is why I changed hotels.

Marsilius has basically hit the nail on the head.

First of all, Neal always surrounded himself with heaps of young guys, all desperate for a handout. He treated them like shit but he knew they were not going to bite the hand that fed them, so they endured his incredible rudeness and bullying with a Thai "smile."

Secondly, Neal had plenty of spare cash and I have no doubt he would soon be able to get a bunch of guys together willing to go beat someone up if the price was right. Don't believe all that Land of Smiles bullshit; there are some very rough and scary young guys wandering around, many high as kites on yaba, apparently.

Thirdly, Neal was,indeed, "unstable" and "volatile" - he came across as a person capable of anything; anything in order to get his own way. That's what made his threats real.

I kept my visits to Pattaya quiet and made sure I kept away from him so he would never see me.

It's not a case of whether he actually ever had someone beaten up, it's the fact that he was the type of person who would have no qualms about doing it. That's the scary part and that's why some precautions had to be taken.

[bucknaway]

A447, you do know that if you posted a post of how you got attacked by guys hired by someone after being made aware of the persons threat, we would be telling you it was your own fault to be so careless. After all, the person did tell you of the threat....

You can't win on a message board. That's why most will post but hide their identity.

[Jellybean]

I have a vague memory from reading the book, Confessions of a Bangkok Private Eye: True stories from the case files of Warren Olson, as told to Stephen Leather (about a New Zealand private detective working in Thailand) that the going rate for тАШbumping offтАЩ a Thai national was 20,000 baht and the price for тАШbumping offтАЩ a fa-r├аng was 50,000 baht.

It would appear then that from reading some of his case files that it is not too farfetched to believe that someone with the right connections and serious intent is quite capable of following up on any threats of violence.

[scottish-guy]

Arsenal I would be more impressed if your assertions regarding my brief role moderating this forum were in any way based on fact, rather than just sticking a pin in a list of guesses and posting uninformed drivel based on where it lands.

You are so far wide of the mark it tells me you have no clue as to what was actually going on at that time

[arsenal]

SG. Do I know exactly what was going on at that, or indeed any other time. No I don't and nor do I claim to. But I do know this.

At that time you were one of the most unpopular posters but did at least have credibility and a certain gravitas. You were made moderator, with I believe promises as to the future ownership of the board. Promises you chose to believe. So many members objected to your appointment that Neal fired you in a most public fashion. And bang, credibility, gravitas and job all gone with a few keystrokes. Any future protests by you would be seen as sour grapes. He reeled you in and then gutted you.
So. Neal won....SG nil.

[a447]

I would have thought that being fired by someone like Neal would, in fact, have no effect on anybody's credibility. After all, the man could hardly be described as someone with integrity, and the ability to make rational decisions on anything was sadly lacking.
Any "keystrokes" by Neal became irrelevant not long after he bought the board.

[catawampuscat]

Jellybean, the threats were not about killing but breaking a leg or an arm.
A punch in the mouth knocking out teeth, all far less than 50,000 baht.
Threats to call immigration, threats to call your embassy and make accusations
of underage . You were cursed if Neal knew your full name, address and if he had a photo.
Threats of law suits where you would need to pay a lawyer, payoff authorities etc.
Neal embodied hate.
Heard that he was not on a medical evacuation flight but on a regular flight. He was
sick on first leg to Europe (Germany ?), and checked by medical personnel in Europe and allowed to continue to USA.
He died on that leg.

[newalaan2]

Everything that needs to be said has been said.
How on earth can you possibly know that? You have absolutely no idea if everything that 'needs said' has been or not, that is simply a random, baseless personal opinion of your own.

This thread had been slipping further and further down the list and the board owner wisely decided to archive it for all those that wish to relive the past can do so. To keep it open and be given new life, a year or months from now serves no purpose. It's like the patient laying on the the psychiatrist couch desperately seeking closure but the doctor won't let him. Maybe SC seeks closure himself, it's his board. No need to pour salt on open wounds.
Up2U, Ii is not my intention to seek an argy-bargy with you, but your claim that "this thread had been slipping futher and further down the list" is patently untrue and totally false.

The thread had contributions on virtually every day apart from a 4-day respite just after the initial outpourings and reaction to Neal's death, from the start on 3rd June thro to 10th. Then as others who maybe don't read every day, or those who simply didn't have time like myself for instance, caught up, more responses started being added from 14th right up to 22nd after which it was locked.

If it really had been 'slipping down' why would there have been any reason to lock it? it would have died a natural death wouldn't it?

Isn't just a little absurd to consider a thread with 7600 views, 115 responses and rising as dying? It was current, relevant and should never have been locked.

if surfcrest or anyone else seeks/needs 'closure'.......whatever THAT is, all they needed do was simply NOT click onto the thread, NOT read updates and simply by-pass/ignore, just how difficult is that to do for seemingly intelligent but clearly weak-willed individuals to do?

[Surfcrest]

if surfcrest or anyone else seeks/needs 'closure'.......whatever THAT is, all they needed do was simply NOT click onto the thread, NOT read updates and simply by-pass/ignore, just how difficult is that to do for seemingly intelligent but clearly weak-willed individuals to do?

And I'm sure if someone puked on the floor of a restaurant you were eating in, you could just step over it or around it.
The reality is that it's puke, it's offensive to some of the membership here for a variety of reasons and so the thread was locked and will remain locked.

Once we are done with the chatter on this thread, it will be moved over to Board Business and forgotten over there, where our non-Sawatdee Gay Thailand topics belong.
...and for the few that think I'm being selective "Thinking about re-jigging board forums" will also be moved to Board Business once we have enough input as to where we go next.

Surfcrest

[Nirish guy]

It's puke ? - your posters genuinely held views about someone they found vile are puke - really ?? And there I thought the board wasn't meant to all about what the owner thought was acceptable to comment on anymore, it seems not and you're setting yourself up as the moral / offence police now - and as for offensive as you very well know I and many other of your members here find the majority of the posts on the bitch board offensive but that didn't stop you wanting to buy / sponsor it in secret so it could be re-set up again and carry on "offending" your members on a daily basis - and that all in secret behind your members backs - so you weren't too worried about causing much offence there to your members it seems - double standards or what !

[Surfcrest]

Nirish...it's one post that was locked, no editing, no policing...no military coup.
Yup....it's puke, he was puke, what he had to say was puke...and our memories of him are.......puke.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Surfcrest

[Nirish guy]

Yeah I think you're wrong - not in wanting to let the whole Neal thing die - I'm ALL for that, I've posted my main view of Neal " for the record" ( that main post on GB's board mind although unfortunately he chose to delete that entire thread making it a total waste of my time posting it there at all) but aside from that that it as far as I personally am concerned and with regard to Neal that one single post was more attention than I've paid or given to him at any time in the last year ( much to his great annoyance and leading to many posts where he tried to bate me in to ANY sort of a reply to him to enter his tangled web of deceit - all without any success on his part I should add.

So no, in my opinion anything I posted here ( and on GBs board) isn't puke, it is my honestly held view, all based on as I found him and as I absolutely wished to post to the net as a record of my experience of the man.

I believe what others ( and myself) found objectionable wasn't the wishing to wind down the topic but the manner in which it was done - "BANG TOPIC CLOSED BECAUSE I SAY SO - NOW" just because you as both an individual ( and board owner I grant you) had a change of heart or view, to simply allow the thread to die of it's own accord would I imagine have been the better way - and if it's not dying then that's because people are still wanting to read or comment apparently and THAT is what you said your new leadership would be about, no censorship etc - and what more a example of censorship can you have than - YOU CANNOT COMMENT ANY LONGER - which if course is the net result of you closing the thread, which will of course only lead to it resurfacing again later ( and I REALLY hope it doesn't as the man isn't worth the bandwidth - so to me no, not puke and no people shouldn't have been stopped commenting on an ongoing thread - OR do say "you know what guys, if I don't like something, I'm closing it and if you don't like it bugger off - at least that's upfront and honest and everyone knows where they stand with you then and can make their own decisions accordingly - but to say one thing and do the other only leads to confusion and dissent - as witnessed in this thread it seems.

Anyway on a lighter note, I'm off to Bkk in the morning so once I turn off my computer I'll be happy to care not a jot about all or any of this anyway :-)

[scottish-guy]

SG. Do I know exactly what was going on at that, or indeed any other time. No I don't and nor do I claim to. But I do know this.....


This is laughable - you then go on to further demonstrate your total ignorance by making a series of assertions with no proof whatsoever, based entirely on a version of events you have swallowed lock, stock, and barrel from a person you know was a compulsive liar.

1. Were you aware that, after accepting the job of moderating SGT, the 'free gifting' of the board quickly turned into to a request for $3000 to help "top up medical funds"?

2. Were you further aware that I then declined to enter into any financial dealings with the person concerned - and advised him that he should find someone else willing to top up his medical fund, meanwhile and until he did so, I would continue to help him out on SGT mainly because of the vile abuse he was getting over on the newly formed BB?

3. Were you further aware that all the moderation policies being carried out at that time were under the micro-managed direction of Neal, that he directed that a hard line was to be taken on stamping down on personal abuse and name-calling, with any such instances edited in real- time (remember all the red ink?) - and more serious "offences" involving moving the post to a secret room so that he, I, and jinks could discuss what to do? Further, that I had absolutely no power to kick/ban/boot members, as some have alleged? Not that I wanted any such power but it's a bit much to be accused by eg Ronthai (and others) of excercising a power I never had, and to be told by others how I booted Fountainhall off this board, when in fact what happened was a post of his was moved to the secret room, where after amendment it was accidentally deleted and could not subsequently be re-instated, which was unfortunate but certainly does not equate to booting someone off the board as others (not Founty) have alleged.


4. Were you further aware that I received almost daily requests to provide or facilitate the provision of personal information and "dirt" on LMTU (whom he believed was behind the BB attacks on him), so that his personal details and alleged legal misdemeanours could be splashed? This was the most ridiculous request of the very many I received, as I knew nothing about LMTU and told Neal so.

5. Were you further aware that it was only after the $3000 request was refused and the pressure to pursue LMTU was resisted, that these so-called complaints were made and that, knowing what we know now, do you not consider that at least some of these were either being completely invented, or engineered, or at the very least least stoked to the max to fit an agenda at a time when he was under fire on two boards at the same time? Has it not occurred to you that whilst he was sending me PMs telling me what to do about certain posts and telling me how I had handled things exactly correctly, he was simultaneously stoking it with the authors? Is it beyond the bounds of your comprehension to imagine that a twisted, lying, manipulative, two-faced cunt could conceivably engineer such a situation? Hmmm?

Can I prove any of this - yes, plenty - both with screenshots of PMs and by contemporaneous discussions and references to it via PM with third parties.

And here's something else you probably aren't aware of, which a447 briefly alluded to recently, and which happened well after I left SGT (so at least I can't get blamed for this!) Did you know that a VERY prominent ex-Pattya venue owner was named and libelled all over this forum by a "new poster" who done might assume to be a hydra bet even if not, whose post therefore would have required pre-moderation) as illegally emerging and travelling in Thailand whilst banned from the kingdom - by using his dead brother 's passport? Can I prove that as well? You can bet your life I can!

Oh, and one last thing - (and this will please onlookers from another board) - do you know that he was directing Timmberty what to say on this board, how to respond to criticism of his posts? Do you know that this was done by PM with Neal posing as CaptnCrunch and sending timmberty PMs on what to say next? Can I prove that? Yes, I have a screenshot of one particular PM between them. How can I possibly know what was said in a PM? Quite simple - if you twist and turn so much you eventually slip up (esp if you're not very intelligent) and you press the wrong button and send the PM to the wrong person.

I realise that having had the information above you will be none the wiser Arsenal, but at least you'll be better informed. You are entitled to your opinion on who "won" or "lost" but kindly be in possssion of FACTS before arriving at your conclusion, and not suppositions based on about as much knowledge that could be painted on a gnats arse with a paintbrush.

Now, NIrish is off to BKK and I'm sure he'll have a great time ;) I on the other hand am sitting in the Marhaba longe of DXB waiting on the final leg of my journey home :(( I really don't want to have to respond again.

[newalaan2]

Dear oh dear. My god we've seen some convoluted, inconsistent, contradictory efforts from surfcrest in the past but this really takes the biscuit.

It starts as a poor judgement call and morphs to an insulting of the intelligence of the membership and a total disregard and respect for their taking the time to compose and contribute posts here by describing their heartfelt, genuine responses as nothing more than puke.

Not only puke but puke which in his own words is to be "forgotten" to be shuffled off to some dark corner, otherwise known as "Board business"..........and the owner is mystified as to why this Board has a distinct lack of posting traffic on a day-to-day basis, well he must be the only one mystified as it's plainly obvious to the rest.

Virtually all the responses from the owner/mod to his reasons for locking amount to nothing more than a mountain of guff. There are so many inconsistancies and u-turns actually contained within the single post reply the difficulty in responding is deciding which of them is worth a reply or which to tackle first.

So what we have here with this decision to lock the busiest thread here for years......is that rather than weak-willed fussy old biddy's moderating themselves by simply NOT clicking on or reading the content of a thread they find distressing, the owner is claiming that his decision to lock is to pander to a minute minority of these fussy moaners (which amounts to about 1% of the membership) against the whole of the rest of the 99% of members which are to be simply ignored.

Of course the reason put forward by surfcrest is absurd, ridiculous and convoluted simply to cover the fact that this quote is nothing close to the truth of the matter.......

AS much as I dislike moderating a topic there comes a time when i'll make A MODERATING DECISION
Let's be under no illusions here, this was not a "moderating decision", it was merely a very PERSONAL WHIM which has no real justification whatsoever. How on earth can a moderator claim a decision is in the Boards interest (as surely that must be the basis for a decision)by pandering to what amounts to a handful of the members. How can anyone with any credibility claim this is a balanced, well considered moderating decision. The trouble is that now there are some members openly disagreeing with him because the decision is wrong, surfcrest will dig his heals in and instead of putting the interests of the Board and majority of members first will continue to drag this out with ever more irrelevant and preposterous covering reasons for the decision.

For me these are the relevant parts of this "moderating decision" explanation,

This is about the membership and doing the right thing for those members most upset by that thread
So according to the owner it is being locked to favour a very small minority of weak-willed members who need to be protected from the reality of forum life as they are incapable of managing this themselves.

Now for the absurd, the unfathomable, the ridiculous.


I'm not worried about the membership possibly taking future threads off the tracks with a side-bar Neal discussion based on something that hadn't been said on this locked thread I'm not going to make furture "Neal" discussions off limits

IF you are "not worried" about further discussion on Neal especially with regard to "something" that hadn't been said on the locked thread, which in effect means further discussion on Neal and ESPECIALLY on what was not said on the locked thread is to be allowed, wouldn't the most obvious, sensible, straightforward, uncomplicated, easy thing to do is simply NOT lock the thread in the first place or indeed unlock it now to allow further discussion to remain together in the place where it should actually be?

For goodness sake just how thick and dumb do you consider your members to be? You are locking a thread in one breath only in the next breath to allow further discussion ON THE SAME TOPIC elsewhere? Isn't his nothing more than a "poke in the eye" for those poor little dears you locked the thread to protect in the first place? Having already polarised the majority of members by locking it, you have now succeeded in dispensing a "poke in the eye" for just about very single Board member.

Keep it up Surfcrest I havent had this much fun in weeks. All we need now is a747 to write another he said you said he said quote this quote that and we could have a pissing contest between him and newalana. Laugh? I nearly died of it.

[arsenal]

SG. Thank you for admitting it. He offered you power and the board. So you jumped into bed. Good call Scotty. None of the other stuff would have happened if you had just said no. And I repeat, you already knew what sort of a person he was. You're right..."laughable."

[fountainhall]

. . . it's a bit much to be accused by eg Ronthai (and others) of excercising a power I never had, and to be told by others how I booted Fountainhall off this board, when in fact what happened was a post of his was moved to the secret room, where after amendment it was accidentally deleted and could not subsequently be re-instated, which was unfortunate but certainly does not equate to booting someone off the board as others (not Founty) have alleged.
I confirm I was never booted off the Board and have never suggested that to anyone. What SG writes is as I recall it and as Neal confirmed (before I was added to his 'hit' list)!

[Surfcrest]

There are so many inconsistancies and u-turns actually contained within the single post reply the difficulty in responding is deciding which of them is worth a reply or which to tackle first.
Roll them out newalaan2...the accusation has been made, put up your facts! Or will you do what you usually do and run away from the false accusations you make?



the owner is claiming that his decision to lock is to pander to a minute minority of these fussy moaners (which amounts to about 1% of the membership) against the whole of the rest of the 99% of members which are to be simply ignored.

Insulting the membership that doesn't conform to your views is typical for you. Do you really know how much of the membership is on which side of this argument?



Let's be under no illusions here, this was not a "moderating decision", it was merely a very PERSONAL WHIM which has no real justification whatsoever.
How can anyone with any credibility claim this is a balanced, well considered moderating decision.

No, that is certainly not what I stated...unless you are calling me a liar in public once again newalaan2?



...pandering to what amounts to a handful of the members. The trouble is that now there are some members openly disagreeing with him because the decision is wrong, surfcrest will dig his heals in and instead of putting the interests of the Board and majority of members first will continue to drag this out with ever more irrelevant and preposterous covering reasons for the decision.

Some members openly disagreeing with me? Great! There are also members openly agreeing with me. I didn't delete the original thread, I simply locked it. Look down the page a bit! It's still there, with everyone's comments...for and against.



So according to the owner it is being locked to favour a very small minority of weak-willed members who need to be protected from the reality of forum life as they are incapable of managing this themselves.




For goodness sake just how thick and dumb do you consider your members to be?

Good question newalaan2, because I haven't been the one quoted as having insulted as many as you in this single post.

As I've said to you before newalaan2, if you want to argue with me in this thread or any other...I'm more than willing. Unfortunately your tactics up until now are to hurl insults and baseless accusations and then run when I'm ready to debate these with you before the entire membership. If you want to call me a liar or insinuate that I am lying, then state your proof! Lay it out!
I will not allow you any additional opportunities to call me a liar and then run away when asked to present the facts. As much as I enjoy your non-surfcrest posts, enough is enough.

Surfcrest

[scottish-guy]

SG. Thank you for admitting it. He offered you power and the board. So you jumped into bed. Good call Scotty. None of the other stuff would have happened if you had just said no. And I repeat, you already knew what sort of a person he was. You're right..."laughable."

OMFG, Arsenal - you have just exposed yourself! Forget what Neal did - I'm to blame for a psychotic arsehole buying this board and wrecking it?? Seriously???

I have given you a fairly explosive set of revelations (I'm willing to bet NONE of which you knew) - but instead of addressing any of them, you continue to attack me with the Nancy Reagan cry of "Just say NO."

Is your surname Bernard by any chance?

Talk about losing credibility :))

[Blueskytoday]

HO HUM......enough of this dribble....

[giggsy]

Does anyone know if Neil ever sold his mobility scooter ? I will be in Pattaya next week and I am willing to go up to 1000 baht.
Also he had some wine for sale at one time if its still available I could go up to 250 baht per bottle. every little helps. If anyone knows his ex boyfriend perhaps you could let him know. I wouldn't want him to get ripped off as there are a lot of cheap charlies out there wanting something for nothing.

[Manforallseasons]

Does anyone know if Neil ever sold his mobility scooter ? I will be in Pattaya next week and I am willing to go up to 1000 baht. Also he had some wine for sale at one time if its still available I could go up to 250 baht per bottle I wouldn't want him to get ripped off as there are a lot of cheap charlies out there wanting something for nothing.


You certainly know a "cheap charlie" when you see one!

[a447]

If anyone knows his ex boyfriend perhaps you could let him know.

He's probably uncontactable at the moment, sailing on his yacht somewhere in the Carribean.

[newalaan2]

Roll them out newalaan2...
Inconsistant...contradictory..uturn.
According to you, thread closed due to pressure from a handful of individuals who do not want to witness any further disparaging remarks regarding Neal and his death, and so no further such posts on that subject can be made on that thread.

According to you, any further disparaging remarks regarding Neal and his death can be permitted in further posts on any other thread outwith the one you locked.

Can't post about Neal and his death....can post about Neal and his death. You really can't see any inconsistency or contradictions in these two? Would you like to clearly state why these statements are not inconsistent or contradictory? It's a bit rich trying to shuffle the blame on blatant contradictory statements over to me because I simply pointed them out.


I've said to you before newalaan2, if you want to argue with me in this thread or any other...I'm more than willing. Unfortunately your tactics up until now are to hurl insults and baseless accusations and then run when I'm ready to debate these with you before the entire membership. If you want to call me a liar or insinuate that I am lying, then state your proof! Lay it out! I will not allow you any additional opportunities to call me a liar and then run away when asked to present the facts. As much as I enjoy your non-surfcrest posts, enough is enough
Yeah, Yeah, heard it ALL before. So where this time have I called you a liar? No such claim has ever been made on this thread or any other....... you are simply making this up to try and find a reason to get into a fight. It's the same thing you roll-out time after time, yet never ONCE have you been able to show, prove, or establish one single instance where I called you a liar.

Where have I indicated I want to argue with you? I am making relevant points about the Board, ITS NOT PERSONAL, you are the owner responsible for Board actions I might have feedback to respond to, it's business, who else can I respond to? Try looking at posts on that basis rather than some personal slights you perceive to have received every time I respond to instances regarding the Board.

Run away? You are just making it up as you go along now, and at the same time doing yourself no favours. I have faced up and made it perfectly clear where inconsistencies and contradictions are blatantly apparent. If you can't SEE/READ or take-in that, what more can I do?

YOU are the one you consistently requesting feedback from members at the end of every pronouncement and when you receive it what do you do? Start a personal petty fight. All my comments and responses are with the interests of the Board in mind, it is you who drags them down to a very bitter personal battle because you simply don't deal well with Board criticism of any kind. You personalise every supposed 'poke in the eye' even where there are NONE.

Next you will be using these false allegations of calling you a liar simply as a cowardly excuse to issue some kind of macho-posturing, muscle-flexing warning, which probably won't even have an actual reason attached to it, because there isn't one to attach, only some excuse to exact some personal vindictive revenge for someone having the nerve to disagree with you as owner, pointing out a blatant clear instance of contradictory statements or simply have a differing opinion that you don't happen to like.

[Brad the Impala]

Seems to me like a lot of over reaction from the posters/members of this forum to a decision made, in good faith I believe, by the owner moderator who makes it possible for us to have this forum available to us.

In your views it may be that it was a good decision, or a bad decision, but can't we MOVE ON?! No one's dead......well someone is, but surely we've heard more than enough about him.

[arsenal]

SG, The matter is closed. If you sit down and drink with The Devil don't be surprised when he asks for you soul. And I'm not talking about anyone else, just you because only you were gullible enough and with a large enough ego to fall for it. A canny Scot?

[scottish-guy]

SG, The matter is closed...

Such arrogance, and so typical of the English - although I'm not talking about anyone else, just you.

As for the matter being "closed" - sorry, but when you chose to open this particular Pandora's Box, you lost control of the lid.

[Surfcrest]

When anyone dies within the community who is known on a personal level, (but not exclusively) there is a post announcing their passing. We have done this with so many over the years, far too often as of late. It isn't always an announcement from the Board, it quite often comes from posters who were simply in the know. In the case of jinks, it was his nephew who joined just to make the announcement.

This "Final Post" question has come up before. Some members have let it be known that they are not interested in having their death announced here. Others have let us know that there is a belief that these final posts should be respected to positive comments only and I most certainly agree. This discussion came up when Monty passed away and again I was criticised for censoring his "Final Post" for negative comments that I believed as a moderator were inappropriate for such a thread.

http://sawatdeenetwork.com/forum/post284403.html?hilit=monty#p284403

We and all our friends will all pass away some day. Some of us may have our passing announced here by someone if we are known by someone personally. Maybe it will be a friend that passes, or maybe it will be us. I believe it has always been a standing practise of this Board (through the responsible administrations) to respect someone in their passing. To respect this final thread that could be about us or even a friend of ours in the community, should we pass away.

It is our policy, going forward to always respect an individual when they pass away and to restrict negative comments from these specific threads. So we don't have these unnecessary discussions on this topic in the future, I will incorporate this into the Rules...even though I don't believe this Rule should need to be there.

Surfcrest

[lego]

I think that you are underestimating the potential for real violence in Thailand.
I think you are underestimating what I know about violence in Thailand. But that's not even the question, because I didn't ask, "Could Neal have found thugs to do some dirty work for him here in Thailand?". I have no doubt that he could have! No, my question was whether there is at least one known case of Neal actually using his money and/or connections to have someone beaten up (or worse).

I'd like to reply to a447 in the same spirit. Granted, it's probably true that he surrounded himself with heaps of young guys who relied on his handouts. I think at some point that was even kind of his job, being a boy bar owner. But isn't the most likely reason for this that he liked the company of young guys? If there isn't any actual evidence that he used these guys as his personal death squad, in my opinion there isn't necessarily more to that than the usual sugar daddy/needy youngster relationship.

Would have, could have, unstable person - that's all very well, but it doesn't help me to make a distinction between a rather harmless if annoying keyboard warrior on the one hand and someone who posed a real danger on the other hand. As far as I'm concerned and from all I've read, it seems that he was a member of the former group.

[thaiforum555]

As a new member who knows nothing about the past or any of you, I am happy that the admin has decided this, because it almost made me decide to not come here anymore, all that negative talk about the dead.
Don't tell me I am free to ignore the subject, that is bollocks and you all know it, people read the topics and it also gives me in this case an idea of how some people are and to avoid.
I am not saying that only good about the dead should be spoken, but on a public forum where the dead person can not defend him-/herself, it should only be an anouncement(s) of any practical matters.
Running somebody through the mud, should be done when alive, not after death.

[giggsy]

[attachment=0:1vj39wmi]images0870F9JY.jpg[/attachment:1vj39wmi]

[netrix]

As a new member who knows nothing about the past or any of you...

exactly. you don't know, so your opinion is not worth much. =))

[arsenal]

SG. I wondered how long it would take to get round to 'The English' although you also qualify it so it doesn't actually make sense. And Pandoras' box was opened a long time ago. Anyway it looks as though you have run out of self justification for your idiocy so unless you have yet more 'startling facts' to regale us all with I suggest you try and put the whole sorry episode behind you.

[scottish-guy]

SG. I wondered how long it would take to get round to 'The English' ....

If you want to know what caused me to refer to "the English" then you need only look back at your own post and your "canny Scot?" remark.

If you want to know what inspired me to qualify it- you again need only look back at your post which contain the very self same words.

I have merely thrown your own shit right back at you. What a pity you apparently don't have the intelligence to recognise that.

And please stop pleading for closure on the issue - you're looking increasing embarrassed (as well you ought to be) by the fact that you have nailed your colours to the mast of the all-time greatest Ogre of any gay Thailand forum.

Shame on you.

:))

[a447]

Lego wrote:
But isn't the most likely reason for this that he liked the company of young guys?

Yes, but they were also available to do his bidding, or would know someone who would.
Lego, he was more than a " keyboard warrior" - that term makes him seem so harmless. Enough has been written about him on this and other boards by people who obviously knew him a lot better than your good self. I won't repeat it all here. He was not the type you could safely turn your back on, that's for sure.

Thaiforum555, are you incapable of ignoring stuff you don't like, or do you find yourself returning like a dog to its vomit? Why not just refrain from clicking on this thread?


Running somebody through the mud, should be done when alive, not after death.

It was.

[arsenal]

Smurfcrest. We need a new moderator. I propose Scottish Guy. Promise him you can swing the Yes vote. He bought bullshit before and will probably do so again. And then if the vote goes the other way we can start this whole saga again. That means several years of his bellyaching. :((

[scottish-guy]

My first action would be to move your post right away - completely off topic

:))

[christianpfc]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6LZEaONvcWdhk8D-eC3sIgqcwmJzsF7Tub6Q2QP701Lxj-nZj

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQChm04yaBKIqTecSziLedOzq0ACyiI5 pufFTaQLL7SytOF_gtzhA

Did I get this right (I usually skip this thread)? He died on a plane? A pain in the arse to the bitter end!!

[catawampuscat]

Did I get this right (I usually skip this thread)? He died on a plane? A pain in the arse to the bitter end!!

Indeed. Flight had to land (Newfoundland?, Greenland ?) for corpse to be carted off before flight could be resumed.

[arsenal]

I know you would Scotty. That is precisely why you were fired. You weren't the only one receiving PMs from Neal you know.

[Manforallseasons]

God this thread could bore anyone to death.

[scottish-guy]

..... You weren't the only one receiving PMs from Neal you know.

I'm just surprised he would type PMs to you at the same time as you were rimming him

[arsenal]

Don't be ridiculous Scotty. It would have taken a tongue the length of Jar Jar Binks to rim Neal.

Did I get this right (I usually skip this thread)? He died on a plane? A pain in the arse to the bitter end!!Indeed. Flight had to land (Newfoundland?, Greenland ?) for corpse to be carted off before flight could be resumed.I do trust the polar bears were able to feast.

[scottish-guy]

Maybe so, Arsenal - but I have every confidence that had your tongue not been up to the job(!) then you'd have made a decent fist of trying something else.

[scottish-guy]

Catty my dear - where are you reading these reports. I'm unaware of any independent verification of his demise, never mind details of the corpse being wheeled off the plane in Greenland.

Please provide a link - I should like to settle down with a nice bottle of Sauvignon and a giant packet of Quavers, and chortle quietly as I read it. Are there photographs or even illustrations by a sketch artist?

[newalaan2]

God this thread could bore anyone to death.
Now that you have appeared that could well be the final nail in the coffin, but one has to note that the content is so boring you have still managed to plough your way through all of this content in order to come to your fascinating conclusion, as well as being so boring it was still apparently worth taking the time to contribute.

Thanks MFAS you never fail to disappoint in examples of cluelessness.

[Manforallseasons]

God this thread could bore anyone to death.
Now that you have appeared that could well be the final nail in the coffin


One can only hope as this has become little more than a slugfest often having nothing to Neal!

[scottish-guy]

What's your point - the thread is not SUPPOSED to be about Neal

[newalaan2]

a slugfest often having nothing to Neal!
I'll assume you mean "some posts often have no reference to Neal in them", would the valuable contributions you insist on making to this thread you find boring, not be perfect examples of this?

Looks like the cluelessness I accused you of will have to be re-assessed as it's now looking like a gross over-estimation of your ability to fully understand what is actually going on around you.

As pointed out by the previous poster, this thread is not supposed to be specifically about Neal, that thread was locked, hadn't you noticed?

[Manforallseasons]

Your thread on discussing the logic of locking topics has morphed into this and relished by few, with the exception of you in red and scottish-guy in blue.

http://youtu.be/GwfXsX0308s

[Smiles]

Did I get this right (I usually skip this thread)? He died on a plane? A pain in the arse to the bitter end!!
A plane in the ass to the bitter end?

[arsenal]

MFAS. Brilliant. I scored it a points victory for the blue lady.

[catawampuscat]

Did I get this right (I usually skip this thread)? He died on a plane? A pain in the arse to the bitter end!!
A plane in the ass to the bitter end?

This thread definitely needs some humour about now and a pun seems like a fitting end..

[thaiforum555]

This board, thread needs to get a life =))


There was a lot more but, just deleted it,

Sorry , good bye

[loke]

This forum is not only open for 10-15 regular posters , is it ?

For members like myself, that only log in here once in a while , we also have opinions you know. And since Neal owned a well knowned Pattaya bar , I knew him from there and spoke to him a couple of times. He had competitions like boy bingo , and I remember it was enjoyable.

That's all I know and out of respect to a human being , RIP .

This forum is not only open for 10-15 regular posters , is it ?Yes.

[LoveThailand]

This forum is not only open for 10-15 regular posters , is it ?Yes.
No.