The Kiss

[fountainhall]

Not much seems to be happening on the platforms of the Skytrain or the MTR in hot, steamy Bangkok. Travellers stand in line, chat, look around, check their mobile phones and patiently wait for the trains. So it was a bit of a shock this morning when reaching the top of the escalator at Saladaeng BTS station to be greeted by the sight of two slim youngish (maybe 30 or so) farang guys kissing. But this was no peck on the cheek. This was the real McCoy тАУ body pressed to body, mouth glued to mouth, tongue down your throat kissing.

Walking past them, I looked at the reactions of the others on the platform, almost all Thai. Many diverted their gaze. A few younger ones looked on тАУ perhaps in envy? Some older ones had an obvious look of disdain.

What to do? I was tempted to go up to them and suggest as tactfully as I could that such displays of affection in a public place are actually offensive to many Thais. I wondered how they would react. Ignore me? Tell me to f--k off? An approaching train saved me. As I boarded, I could see the two of them still at it, breaking off just in time to board before the doors closed.

I have seen handholding, arms draped over shoulders, arms around waists in a public space before. Never the full Monty! I wonder what you would have done? Passed by and let them get on with it?

[Up2U]

No big deal for me, would have kept right on walking. If this embrace happened in front of me while waiting for the train, maybe a quip, "is there room for one more?" ;)

[francois]

One assumes this was a French kiss rather than a casual un bisou.

What would I do? A wink and a nod.

[PeterUK]

I wouldn't have said anything but I'd have been annoyed and embarrassed, knowing what the Thais were thinking. Very insensitive behaviour.

Had it been a couple of monks with tongues entwined that would have been a story - and now there's something that could be done about Monks Behaving Badly (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/19/monks-bad-behaviour-hotline-thai-buddhist-authorities). I'm inclined to agree with Up2U on this one. There are so many tattooed farang (aka. White Trash) around Thailand publicly pawing some young hottie of either sex I would think a farang couple doing the same to each other is hardly worth a mention in terms of how the Thais generally regard us. Besides they're probably conforming to the misapprehension that Thailand is a "gay paradise" whereas - as we all know - it's merely a paradise for old men who want some young flesh, and in Thailand everything is for sale.

[firecat69]

Like everywhere there is a generational change going on. Cannot imagine younger Thais giving it a 2nd thought. Older Thais I could care less just like I could care less in the USA that my generation is still holding on to marriage is between a man and a woman.

Also everything may be for sale but there are many Gay Thais who are not For Sale and LadyBoys are certainly not in the Closet so I think some may be holding on to certain behavior beliefs that are being changed in modern society .

Does anyone really think this would get a mention on a Non Gay Board if it was a man and a woman who were displaying affection?

[PeterUK]

Does anyone really think this would get a mention on a Non Gay Board if it was a man and a woman who were displaying affection?

If they were doing it as enthusiastically as the two mentioned in the OP, yes. I don't see this as a gay issue. It is a Thai cultural norm (still much more ingrained and pervasive than you seem to think) that people of either sex should not show excessive sexual feelings in public. The issue is whether we as guests visiting or living here should respect this cultural norm. We all know that there are farang slobs that don't, but I suspect that most farangs try to uphold it. Quite rightly in my opinion. The best that could be said for these two gay guys is that they might not have been aware that their behaviour was offensive, though I strongly doubt it.

[Up2U]

This didn't happen in an Issan village or a temple but the Saladaeng BTS;the gateway to the Patpong, Soi 4 and Soi Twilight. Our responses are probably more of a reflection on us individually; our home countries, our personal standards, morales, age, etc. For me, living in the San Francisco Bay area during the 60's and 70's nothing shocks me.

[fountainhall]

Cannot imagine younger Thais giving it a 2nd thought
A deep kiss with bodies clenched together lasting at least 30 seconds in a very public place? Some younger Thais including some young mothers with schoolchildren were certainly 'concerned' about it. I've lived here for more than 12 years and I have never seen this degree of intimacy between two guys in all that time - qualified by at this time of day and in this kind of public space.

Re Up2U's comment, Saladaeng may be the gateway to the gay areas, but that's at night. This was around 11:00 am.

[LoveThailand]

and in Thailand everything is for sale.

I think it is just more affordable in Thailand.

[Nirish guy]

So, was your concern / annoyance because two people were passionately kissing in public or simply that two guys were passionately kissing in public and if it was a guy and a girl would we be having this conversation and if not then basically aside from the culturally sensitivities of the matter, which I fully accept, this then could be seen as just a form of sub conscious internalised homophobia presenting itself perhaps - and I mean no offence nor mean to suggest YOU are homophobic of course ( well certainly not consciously or intentionally in any way perhaps) by that but am merely raising the point.

My own view if the such PDA's from no matter what gender are just a but OTT and unnecessary in public, but hey who knows perhaps they'd just met up after two years apart or where just separating to be apart for the next six months - who knows - and I guess it's better someone kissing than fighting......

My own view is such PDAs from no matter what gender are just a bit OTTA bit?! I think PDAs are completely unnecessary wherever in the world they may occur. I also disagree with PeterUK's assertion about "most". From my observations farang in Thailand generally carry on in this regard as if they're back in their own country. I have been kissed by a Thai boy in public - a quick peck on the mouth, at night, at the entrance to Silom Soi 4 in Bangkok. He had been drinking. I was shocked.

[firecat69]

I still don't see what Thais would be upset about . They don't seem to mind all the nudity for everyone to see walking by Girly Bars in Bangkok, Pattaya etc. All the kids looking at the breasts on display.

And I still maintain the OP would have never started this thread if it were a man and a woman who were kissing. After all it is BKK where everything is available for a price , so Thais should not worry about any PDA's.

I still don't see what Thais would be upset about . They don't seem to mind all the nudity for everyone to see walking by Girly Bars in Bangkok, Pattaya etc. All the kids looking at the breasts on display.The difference is that the Thais have to choose to walk by the girly bars and choose to look in (it is possible to walk by and not look in). I'm not sure the basis for you to assert that "They don't seem to mind all the nudity for everyone to see". What are you basing that on? A lack of confrontation?

[LoveThailand]

When in Rome...
Those two should have been more sensitive to local customs - and perhaps get a room or something...

[fountainhall]

They don't seem to mind all the nudity for everyone to see walking by Girly Bars in Bangkok, Pattaya etc. All the kids looking at the breasts on display.
firecat69 may well know more about Thai society than I and it would be tempting to bow to that knowledge. On the other hand, unlike him I have never seen hoardes of pre-teen schoolkids (many with their mothers in tow) outside night entertainment venues waiting for a quick flash of a naked breast or two. Further, anyone who assumes that Thai society, traditions and customs are anything other than highly conservative hasn't ventured very far from the gay areas and the "Girly Bars in Bangkok, Pattaya etc." and so must surely spend the bulk their visits to Thailand exclusively in those nightlife areas. Nudity and such open displays of unrestrained affection may be acceptable in many other countries. As LoveThailand implies above, they are deeply offensive to the vast majority of Thais - in my opinion, of course.

[firecat69]

I don't pretend to know as much about Thailand as you nor am I hung up on stereotypes given to me by certain people.
'
Those type of comments on Thai society fly in the face of a country that flaunts prostitution etc and is more then willing to use their children to feed the family. Those same conservative families you refer to , have no problem when their sons our daughters are bringing home baht to the family by working in Bars, Massage Parlors etc. They have no problem with the rampant corruption that allows the police to steal from them for invisible infractions to pad their wallets.

I can go on and on. Yes you can love Thailand without pretending that Thais do not accept certain things when in fact they accept anything if money is involved. When is the last time an ugly old woman has been told to cover her breasts on the beach. Does the word NEVER mean anything!! Why money.


I have seen it so many times and I find it hard to believe that you have not. The 18 year old son with the old man and the mother encouraging the relationship and taking most of the money or making sure the Boyfriend who you worry about displaying PDA's is doing everything to maintain the relationship and BRING Home the MONEY.

Same Same with the Young ladies

But worst of all are the promises made to the youths to study hard and get a degree from the University so they can have a better life. They forgot to tell them that Reception at a Hotel or Bank Teller is as far as they will probably go unless their family is connected.

Thailand has many more problems then worrying about PDA's and I for one would not give it a 2nd thought .

The only possibility of me agreeing with you would be if the 2 individuals were doing it only to incite reaction. I am fairly sure you don't know the situation that created their awful display of affection and thus I could care less!!! On top of that you are talking about Bangkok a city of 12 million people who are rushing around to make a living and I really doubt are worried about 2 people kissing. Oh thats right it was 2 males kissing so maybe some were offended more then they would be if it was say an older hetero couple. Or maybe this terribly offensive behavior bothers YOU more then the hard working Thai person using the SkyTrain to get around congested Bangkok. Just a thought??

[francois]

What Would You Do? That is the title of a show on Americano TV where the producers contrive controversial situations using actors. The events are in public places and always there is the bigot actor who makes inflammatory statements. Then the reactions of the bystanders are recorded. Surprisingly most people are quite liberal, kind, helpful, sensitive and tolerant in their reactions especially regarding gays.

[lego]

I wouldn't have said or done anything, and quite frankly, I wouldn't even have found that interesting enough to post about here (a blow job, on the other hand, might have done the trick). I wouldn't do it myself, but it's not my job to lecture those who don't know or don't care about Thailand's sensitivities - I'll gladly leave that to those who feel personally offended by such behavior.

It's true that we don't see many Thais kissing in public & broad daylight, but we seem to be getting there. In shopping malls and cinemas in particular, it's not uncommon to see Thai college students showing the once dreaded public display of affection. Personally, I'm more worried about potless teenage guys who get their potless teenage girlfriends pregnant. Out of sight, yes, but not out of mind.

[Dave]

It is a Thai cultural norm (still much more ingrained and pervasive than you seem to think) that people of either sex should not show excessive sexual feelings in public. The issue is whether we as guests visiting or living here should respect this cultural norm. We all know that there are farang slobs that don't,

Being able to read Thai minds as you do, would you say Gaybutton, Undaunted and others who have been screaming the end of the world at the possibility of sex shows being shelved under the current regime, fall under the category of "farang slobs"?

Incidentally, I didn't see you expressing your disgust and annoyance at the flagrant breach of Thai cultural 'norms' in those 'no more sex shows' threads or do you only reserve your disgust for young farangs in love who do not have to buy it as you do?

[Dave]

I don't pretend to know as much about Thailand as you nor am I hung up on stereotypes given to me by certain people.
'
Those type of comments on Thai society fly in the face of a country that flaunts prostitution etc and is more then willing to use their children to feed the family. Those same conservative families you refer to , have no problem when their sons our daughters are bringing home baht to the family by working in Bars, Massage Parlors etc. They have no problem with the rampant corruption that allows the police to steal from them for invisible infractions to pad their wallets.

I can go on and on. Yes you can love Thailand without pretending that Thais do not accept certain things when in fact they accept anything if money is involved. When is the last time an ugly old woman has been told to cover her breasts on the beach. Does the word NEVER mean anything!! Why money.


I have seen it so many times and I find it hard to believe that you have not. The 18 year old son with the old man and the mother encouraging the relationship and taking most of the money or making sure the Boyfriend who you worry about displaying PDA's is doing everything to maintain the relationship and BRING Home the MONEY.

Same Same with the Young ladies

:YMAPPLAUSE:

[Marsilius]

Public displays of affection - both heterosexual and gay - are frowned upon by conservative society in Saudi Arabia and Iran. Because it is such a big deal there, such acts have simply been made illegal, leaving visitors in no doubt of the host nations' stance in the matter. Similarly, to make its social disapproval completely clear, France has made it illegal for women to wear in public the niqab or a burka which covers the face.

If the Thais disapprove of pubic displays of affection so strongly, rather than frowning or sneering at guests in their country they should make their stance plain to visitors by similarly making such acts illegal.

Of course, they won't do that - because such a course would undermine the fantasy image of "the land of smiles" (even though those more perceptive foreigners watching Thai political demonstrations and violence on their TV screens may already find that concept somewhat questionable).

[Brad the Impala]

It is a Thai cultural norm (still much more ingrained and pervasive than you seem to think) that people of either sex should not show excessive sexual feelings in public. The issue is whether we as guests visiting or living here should respect this cultural norm. We all know that there are farang slobs that don't,

Being able to read Thai minds as you do, would you say Gaybutton, Undaunted and others who have been screaming the end of the world at the possibility of sex shows being shelved under the current regime, fall under the category of "farang slobs"?


It's not a question of reading minds, just a question of being aware of cultural norms that exist in mainstream society.

The comparison with comments on sex shows are spurious, as these shows happen behind closed doors in specific areas, whereas the actions in the opening post are unavoidably visible to anyone using the BTS. The sort of behaviour on public transport is just rude and inconsiderate to other users in most countries, but more especially so in Thailand.

Incidentally, I am quite sure that Gaybutton has previously been critical of public groping of boys and girls by their customers.

[Scott]

It is a Thai cultural norm (still much more ingrained and pervasive than you seem to think) that people of either sex should not show excessive sexual feelings in public. The issue is whether we as guests visiting or living here should respect this cultural norm. We all know that there are farang slobs that don't,

Being able to read Thai minds as you do, would you say Gaybutton, Undaunted and others who have been screaming the end of the world at the possibility of sex shows being shelved under the current regime, fall under the category of "farang slobs"?


It's not a question of reading minds,


It is. This is what PeterUK said in reply to Fountainhall's post:


I wouldn't have said anything but I'd have been annoyed and embarrassed, knowing what the Thais were thinking.

I'm not sure whether to be impressed because PeterUK claims to know what 67 million Thai people are thinking or be offended because he in fact portraying them as sheep who are all thinking the same thing. I asked my partner and he said "no big deal, now normal"; a Thai school teacher neighbor who thought it was becoming more common and acceptable - worse things like gang rape and murder are happening and a friend of hers who just shrugged it off but not before asking "were they cute?" I guess in his eagerness to rush to judgement, PeterUK must have forgotten to read the thoughts of these three.

[firecat69]

Thankfully the overall response to this incident by members of this Board are no Big Deal. That is exactly what is and has been happening in Thai society for years and is in most cases the changes are being fashioned by the Young.

The difference in the USA between the 30 somethings and the 50 somethings on things such as Gay Marriage are just astounding.

Thai acceptable norms of behavior are being changed by the young and that change will continue and I for one will not be told what is acceptable because of that is the way it is. In fact it is changing and will continue to change and hopefully Thailand will be a better place for it.

[joe552]

Cultural norms in our Western countries included lynching black people, jailing gay men, and in my own country forcibly removing newborn children from unmarried mothers. Just because they are cultural norms doesn't mean we should respect them, if they discriminate against groups or individuals.

firecat69's post merely says that Thais at the bottom rungs of society turn a blind eye to the activities of their sons and daughters. He then extrapolates that as the behaviour of all Thais. I reject that assertion. Just because firecat69 spends his entire life in Thailand in the milieu of prostitutes doesn't make for a rounded view of Thai society - a statement which is true of any country I'd have thought.

[firecat69]

If you took the time to read what I wrote you would hardly see that I am talking about the bottom rungs of society. I comment on university graduates having no chance to advance in their jobs unless they are connected.

Also if you really knew anything about Thailand you would realize that what you refer to as the bottom rungs of society makes up the majority of the population. This has been proven many times in elections where Thaskin has won easily and the upper rungs of society don't like that. Maybe your problem is you are hanging out with the vast minority in Thaland which makes up the chosen and connected.

Maybe you are hanging out with the vast minority in Thailand which makes up the chosen and connected.I should hope so. By the way *o** how's your old dad these days?

[Up2U]

As I posted before this would be no big deal to me, to my bf, the younger generation or open minded people. Bangkok is a modern, thriving, international city and obviously no one cared. Would this couple have displayed their affections so openly in Kansas or Issan? I doubt it. Times change, people need to be less judgmental.
As a young boy sitting on a public bus with my father, I asked him why he was staring at an interracial couple holding hands. He replied, I want to let them know I don't approve. That was the norm in my predominately white, small town in northern California.

I think its great the Thais are adopting western values and getting rid of all that cultural crap like the wai and respect for elders. Nude beaches next?

[PeterUK]

Bangkok is a modern, thriving, international city and obviously no one cared.

I've been accused of being all-knowing (among other things!) in this thread but you are doing the same thing. The OP made it clear that some of the older commuters were showing signs of disdain. I accept that I was being rather sweeping in my assessment of the Thai reaction and that there are generational changes at work, but for the time being it is still wise to assume that the prevailing norm is very conservative when it comes to public displays of affection and it is common courtesy for us as guests to respect the fact.

[firecat69]

Does anyone ever stop to think that the world is a smaller place now. People travel and they do not necessarily read books on cultural norms before they enter the country. They may be going to 6 different countries in 2 weeks and they are not asking about what is acceptable behavior in each country they enter.

Some here would have large signs posted at Customs at Swampy warning people not to show any PDA's while travelling in Thailand.

Ridiculous and certainly not needed IMHO as I have well repeated here . But judgmental is judgmental no matter who and where it is being done.

I would venture to say everyone visiting Thailand or any other country knows not to bring drugs into the country. Most probably know about underage Sex being a no no. Everyone probably knows there is a limit on amount of foreign money to be brought in to the country. But does anyone really think that most visitors know PDA's are frowned upon at least by the older and richer generation?

If the couple the OP frowned upon was living here in Thailand and not just a short time visitor then maybe I could see some one saying that their behavior was not acceptable to SOME Thais. I doubt the OP has any idea of who they were or how long they had been in the country so essentially their behavior was really none of his business!

Nude beaches next?Be careful what you wish for. When I first met a long-standing Board member (*o**) a few years ago I was reminded of an anecdote aired in the UK documentary on the Royal Family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Family_(documentary)) in 1969. In it The Queen comments on an American diplomat who had earlier that day presented his credentials. "He's a gorilla". The phrase leapt to mind immediately I met *o**. I don't think I'd want him flashing his tits, let alone his "crown jewels" in public.

[fountainhall]

I asked for views, and clearly there are differing ones (hardly surprising). But I am surprised that many indicate that Thailand is changing/should change because the world itself is changing. Thank goodness for change, I say. But tell that to the forces of conservatism anywhere, be they in Saudi Arabia, Russia, middle America and, yes, even Thailand.


They may be going to 6 different countries in 2 weeks and they are not asking about what is acceptable behavior in each country they enter.
That is, in my view, the perspective of a typical western tourist who just assumes that what is OK at home is OK wherever he travels. No need to give any consideration to societal norms. Screw the locals! Sorry, no time to read up about your country. So would you consider it OK for two guys to be engaged in a passionate 30-second+ kiss in the middle of Moscow? After all, itтАЩs a capital city and the world is changing? I for one certainly wouldnтАЩt be seen is such a kiss with another guy anywhere in Russia at the moment. Nor in Kuala Lumpur, for that matter.

OK, so Thailand is different. And Bangkok is a capital city. Well, you might consider the easier option of reading any number of websites, forums and blogs about tourists thinking of visiting Thailand. Here are a few тАУ


When in Rome you may make out on the street, but when in Thailand you shouldnтАЩt touch tongues . . . any kissing or extra closeness is out of the question. ItтАЩs okay to sneak a little peck in here or there, but keep it rated G
http://www.expatsblog.com/contests/276/ ... n-thailand (http://www.expatsblog.com/contests/276/top-10-things-not-to-do-in-thailand)


Kissing in public is not accepted. Period.
http://www.backpacking-tips-asia.com/th ... lture.html (http://www.backpacking-tips-asia.com/thailand-culture.html)


Don't show public displays of affection . . . Thai's don't like overt public displays of affection (such as kissing in the street)
http://donslifeinthailand.com/Do_And_Dont.html

From an initial check, I can find no sites which say it is OK for PDAs like extended tongue kissing in public in Thailand to be acceptable behaviour for the vast majority of Thais. But IтАЩd certainly like to be proved wrong by seeing some from those who say it is indeed acceptable.

[firecat69]

What you don't seem to get is it makes no difference if there is a site that says kissing in public is ok. Bangkok is a big city and they are used to foreigners with all their strange customs and they like the MONEY that tourists bring into the country.'

I have no doubt if it had been 2 Thai males the reaction may have been much stronger. But that is the point. They were not Thai and I still say the vast amount of people that may have seen them that day were either curious or accepting of non Thais and the one s who were most put off may have been homophobes and I could care less about them.

Also I notice you did not respond if you would have posted this if it was a man and a woman kissing. Your silence says a lot!!!

[fountainhall]

Bangkok is a big city and they are used to foreigners with all their strange customs and they like the MONEY that tourists bring into the country.
I agree to a certain extent. Money and tourism revenues, however, absolutely do not change the basic cultural values of the vast majority of Thais. They may see foreigners do strange things, but deep throat kissing in a very public place in the middle of the day is an extremely rare occurrence.


I notice you did not respond if you would have posted this if it was a man and a woman kissing. Your silence says a lot!!!
You do not read my posts very clearly. Since it is an issue of Thai custom and tradition, it would not have mattered one whit. 2 guys, 2 girls, girl and boy, older with younger - you decide on the permutations.

I note that you can not find any web pages/blogs whatever to justify the point you are making. I submit that is because you will find precious few - if any! And of course it does make a difference to a discussion! It effectively devalues the point you make.

[Marsilius]

So would you consider it OK for two guys to be engaged in a passionate 30-second+ kiss in the middle of Moscow? After all, itтАЩs a capital city and the world is changing? I for one certainly wouldnтАЩt be seen is such a kiss with another guy anywhere in Russia at the moment.

Of course it wouldn't be OK in Russia - because the Russians have made their disapproval crystal clear by making such an action illegal. Public displays of same-sex affection would be held to be breaking the law against the promotion of homosexuality.

As long as a country such as Thailand chooses to express only a "soft" form of social disapproval, as described by the OP, a tourist can make a choice as to how he behaves. Observance if the law is obligatory; taking account of native cultural norms may be a nice thing to do, but it is essentially optional.

[fountainhall]

. . . taking account of native cultural norms may be a nice thing to do, but it is essentially optional.
I cannot disagree with that - although I'd suggest it is more than just a nice thing to do.

[christianpfc]

"I wonder what you would have done? Passed by and let them get on with it?"

Yes. I would have had one curious look and continued doing my business.

Such an event wouldn't have made it into my diary, leave alone into a post.

[firecat69]

And thankfully that seems to be the predominate feeling here despite what the OP feels or feels we should feel.

[firecat69]

Cannot imagine younger Thais giving it a 2nd thought
A deep kiss with bodies clenched together lasting at least 30 seconds in a very public place? Some younger Thais including some young mothers with schoolchildren were certainly 'concerned' about it. I've lived here for more than 12 years and I have never seen this degree of intimacy between two guys in all that time - qualified by at this time of day and in this kind of public space.

Re Up2U's comment, Saladaeng may be the gateway to the gay areas, but that's at night. This was around 11:00 am.


Your words intimacy between 2 guys and that is what bothered you and why have never replied to my assertions that this is what bothered you until your last post where you felt challenged so you give some hyperbole like that was always your feeling.

In fact your real feeling is revealed in " I've lived here for more than 12 years and I have never seen this degree of intimacy between two guys in all that time - qualified by at this time of day and in this kind of public space."

I maintain you would have never started this post had it been a man and a woman and you can deny it all you want but your own words reveal what bothered you!!!

[lurker]

I'm surprised in this context that no-one has mentioned the current controversy in Thailand about actor Jirayu "James" Tangsrisuk's kissing celebrity toddler Nong Wan Mai on the mouth, a picture of which which appears on the cover of Sudsapda magazine. A view being forcibly expressed in online Thai forums is that the pictures - others are inside the magazine - go too far (and I love this phrase) "even for foreigners with more relaxed cultural standards". It seems to me that the posters here so far fall into two camps (1) PDAs don't conform to Thai cultural norms (2) "This is the way I believe Thailand ought to be therefore that's the way Thailand is". I found firecat69's arguments especially unconvincing in that regard, full of non sequitors. I discussed this with my Thai boyfriend who has lived in Australia for decades. He's strongly opposed to public PDAs in Thailand and asserts most Thais would still find them offensive.

Personally, I'm more worried about potless teenage guys who get their potless teenage girlfriends pregnant. Out of sight, yes, but not out of mind.Whats your problem there just breeding the next generation of boys for us to fuck.

[firecat69]

"This is the way I believe Thailand ought to be therefore that's the way Thailand is". I found firecat69's arguments especially unconvincing in that regard, full of non sequitors. I discussed this with my Thai boyfriend who has lived in Australia for decades. He's strongly opposed to public PDAs in Thailand and asserts most Thais would still find them offensive.

First of all that is not my argument at all. I believe the encounter mentioned is no Big Deal in a city of 12 million where yes social norms are changing and where more and more visitors come every year. If you want tourist money then you cannot expect them all to know and respect social norms and yes I believe the OP never would have mentioned this encounter if it had been a man and a woman. Do I think some people may have been offended. Of course but too bad lots of people are offended all over the world by 2 males kissing but thankfully that is changing as things are changing in Thailand.

Since your BF has lived for decades in Australia , I see no reason to consider his opinion any better then many here who spend many months every year in Thailand.

Opinions are like A--Ho-es. We all have them.

[lurker]

I believe the encounter mentioned is no Big Deal in a city of 12 million where yes social norms are changing and where more and more visitors come every year.That is precisely my opinion of your ramblings. You have a view of how Thailand should be rather than how it is, and then assert that's the way it is. Whether it's a homosexual or a heterosexual PDA is irrelevant. I thought your argument that for most Thais it's not what you know but who you know in order to get ahead meant that they "must" therefore understand and embrace the sex industry and not be shocked by naked flesh fairly typical of the sexpat mentality.

[GreenEggs]

Please Firecat, do not offend Fountainhall. He has very delicate sensibilities. We want to keep her here on this forum and he is prone to tantrums.

Mods, please close this thread before it goes to far.

[Up2U]

Oh the irony of this thread. "The Kiss" police contingent really needs to ride a horse with shorter legs. If a Thai law was broken (and I am sure it wasn't) it is not our place to be the enforcer even with stares of disdain. This couple knows they are not in Issan or Teheran, and certainly not in the closet. Maybe they are on their honeymoon, perhaps they offed a boy the night before, a trip to the Babylon, a massage with a happy ending? who knows and who cares is my view. For those that say it is not the same,remember, this happened at noon time at the train station, my reply is this. Simply walk down those same steps at Saladaeng and witness the the handicapped and children begging, those gay massage boys in Issan dress soliciting for themselves and their employer, take 5 more steps and have porn shoved in your face. Redirect your moral outrage or look in the mirror people; I have a Thai bf 30 years my junior, I came to Thailand for years for sex which btw is illegal here, I have bought pirated software and so on. I don't want to be judged, and I don't judge others.

[Smiles]

" ... I have a Thai bf 30 years my junior, I came to Thailand for years for sex which btw is illegal here, I have bought pirated software and so on. I don't want to be judged ... "
Damn ... I think I should call the Police. :-o

[firecat69]

I believe the encounter mentioned is no Big Deal in a city of 12 million where yes social norms are changing and where more and more visitors come every year.That is precisely my opinion of your ramblings. You have a view of how Thailand should be rather than how it is, and then assert that's the way it is. Whether it's a homosexual or a heterosexual PDA is irrelevant. I thought your argument that for most Thais it's not what you know but who you know in order to get ahead meant that they "must" therefore understand and embrace the sex industry and not be shocked by naked flesh fairly typical of the sexpat mentality.

Evidently you are incapable of reading or comprehending !. I made it quite plain that getting ahead even with a University Degree had nothing to do with ability but with family connections and Front Desk at Hotel or Bank Teller was it in many instances. Their was no mention of Sex which evidently is constantly in your small brain and has nothing to do with the discussion except as how accepting Thais are to the Sex Industry and therefore probably should not have much of a problem with a PDA of foreigners.

Please inform us how much time you have spent in Thailand in the last 5 years. I am guessing very little and because you supposedly have a Thai BF who has not lived in Thailand for decades you are an expert. i think not!!1

[fountainhall]

Please inform us how much time you have spent in Thailand in the last 5 years.
With regard to the general point which has been raised about awareness of Thai customs, surely it is more important to enquire of all posters not only the number of times they have been to the country, but also where they spend most if not all of their time? When a visitor is locked largely into the Pattaya/Jomtien and Bangkok gay axis (nothing wrong with that), I suggest it is possible they may be far less culturally aware of the norms acceptable in the vast majority of the country. I enjoy firecat69's posts on another forum, but they describe so many interesting activities within the area I have just described and little, as far as I am aware, of anything elsewhere. But please do correct me if I am wrong.

I find Christianpfc's comment interesting, as that comes from one of the younger generation who has lived here for some time, speaks Thai and spends a good deal of time travelling around the country - as he describes in various posts and on his interesting blogsite.

Please inform us how much time you have spent in Thailand in the last 5 years.With regard to the general point which has been raised about awareness of Thai customs, surely it is more important to enquire of all posters not only the number of times they have been to the country, but also where they spend most if not all of their time? When a visitor is locked largely into the Pattaya/Jomtien and Bangkok gay axis (nothing wrong with that), I suggest it is possible they may be far less culturally aware of the norms acceptable in the vast majority of the country.I can assure you that I haven't had a single conversation with firecat69 in his not inconsiderable flesh that is not all about boys and bars.

[PeterUK]

Oh the irony of this thread.

For me the biggest irony of this thread is that we as foreign sex tourists/sexpats are disdained by many Thais regardless of our attempts to be culturally sensitive. The simple fact that we are walking along the street with a Thai boy (or girl) 30 or 40 (or more) years younger than ourselves immediately condemns us in their eyes, though they will probably not show it. That kind of response I can easily live with. If they are going to have a huge sex industry (most of the users of which are Thai anyway) they can damn well live with the consequences; their response of condemnation is just hypocritical. I don't, however, proceed from there to the next step taken by some farangs of thinking that, in that case, what does it matter how we behave if they are going to condemn us anyway. I feel that the attempt to respect local norms is worth making for its own sake - I get no pleasure out of deliberately offending people. If some Thais still want to disdain me, well, tough!

[firecat69]

Now there is a post I can completely agree with. I would never be part of a PDA in Thailand but not because necessarily of the social norms in Thailand. It is just something I would not be comfortable with. If I take a boy from a Bar I am not comfortable even letting him hold hands with me. I would not be comfortable in the USA because that is not the country I was raised in at the time. Now in most cities at least in the USA it would not get a 2nd look.

I do think Thailand at least of the older generation has a lot of hypocrisy in regards to sex , same sex couples and yes PDA's . For that reason I just can't care about the couple mentioned by Fountainhall possibly disturbing a few people. Thailand has a lot more problems then worrying about PDA's by visitors who bring in the money they so cherish.

This thread has gone long enough for me so my final word is I would never do what Fountainhall described but because of my own upbringing ,rather then respect for social norms of Thailand. But if I saw someone doing it I would consider it none of my business and move on!

In response to Fountainhall's comment about where I spend the majority of my time I plead guilty to his assumption for the most part. I would hope that he would admit that he spends time with what would be considered the upper class of Thais , those who own homes and cars and take vacations and go out to expensive restaurants. For that strata I am sure they would have been shocked by the PDA at least they would have said so!

[fountainhall]

Now there is a post I can completely agree with.
ThatтАЩs interesting, given that the post contains the following тАУ


I feel that the attempt to respect local norms is worth making for its own sake - I get no pleasure out of deliberately offending people.
тАУ and in the lights of your earlier comment тАУ


Thailand has many more problems then worrying about PDA's and I for one would not give it a 2nd thought.
As for your question, I have done considerable work in Thailand over many years and that has required me to meet a great many different types of people. So yes, I have met people with houses and cars and whatever. I have also met my fair share of bar boys, hotel staff and those who make up the vast majority of Thais. Cultural norms generally apply throughout Thai society, not to one particular group. Like you, though, I would never do what I saw the two guys doing at Saladaeng and for precisely the same reason - upbringing.

[firecat69]

Well you force me to reply. I would not give what you saw a 2nd thought and I never would look to deliberately offend people.

That does not change the fact that I would not feel any compunction to tell the offending people anything , nor would I look down on them for not knowing the acceptable behavior. In other words I think it was a big todoo about nothing ,if I had seen it and would consider it none of my business.

That does not change the fact that I would not feel any compunction to tell the offending people anything , nor would I look down on them for not knowing the acceptable behavior. In other words I think it was a big todoo about nothing ,if I had seen it and would consider it none of my business.No-one cares about your personal response and whether it's your business; the thread was about the Thai's response, for which you have made it very clear you don't give a damn because "they're wrong".

[Up2U]

That does not change the fact that I would not feel any compunction to tell the offending people anything , nor would I look down on them for not knowing the acceptable behavior. In other words I think it was a big todoo about nothing ,if I had seen it and would consider it none of my business.No-one cares about your personal response and whether it's your business; the thread was about the Thai's response, for which you have made it very clear you don't give a damn because "they're wrong".
FH wanted our responses and only noted the disdain of some older Thais. Most posters here have told him to get over the incident and move on.

[firecat69]

That does not change the fact that I would not feel any compunction to tell the offending people anything , nor would I look down on them for not knowing the acceptable behavior. In other words I think it was a big todoo about nothing ,if I had seen it and would consider it none of my business.No-one cares about your personal response and whether it's your business; the thread was about the Thai's response, for which you have made it very clear you don't give a damn because "they're wrong".

Evidently you have a reading deficiency . The OP clearly asked for what others would have done and how we felt about it.

That is exactly what I gave him and I could care less what your thoughts are about my response. By the way since you have such a Big Mouth , what was it you would have done???

I could care less what your thoughts are about my response.That's obviously a lie since you responded to my post!

[firecat69]

I am still waiting for you to reply to the OP's question? What would you have done. I think we all know! You like to mouth off but you would have done nothing!!!

[lurker]

Since your BF has lived for decades in Australia , I see no reason to consider his opinion any better then many here who spend many months every year in Thailand.You really are needy about engaging in a mine's-bigger-than-yours pissing contest, aren't you? So let me see.

I first began coming to Thailand when Tinseltoes was the military dictator - mid-eighties. In that time through until the early nineties the commercial gay scene in the Silom area was bounded by Silom and Suriwong Roads. You stayed at the acknowledged HQ for gay accommodation, the Suriwongse Hotel, whose coffee shop was littered with money boys 24/7, the only male gogo, certainly of note, was the Barbeiry almost next door. No need to cross Suriwong Road at all.

You could walk along Rama IV and find more money boys there or on the corner of Silom, outside Dairy Queen, itself the daytime headquarters of the gay tourist. The host bars were Garden Bar and Harry's who never charged me an "off fee" (I can't answer for others), where boys in street clothes loitered, no-one ever asking or requiring even drinks so far as I could tell. There was no need to ask their age because no-one cared.

The only gay disco was in Silom Soi 4 at the Rome Club, and an American called William started up the Telephone Bar and ran it for a year or two before selling out to a naive Canadian called Richard St Laurent. All the staff at Telephone Bar lived in a dormitory in Soi Pipat off Convent Rd; William and later Richard had an apartment in the same house as the boys' dormitory which proved to be more than useful to Richard's dreadful boyfriend Yot.

Going to Soi Pipat would be the only reason anyone would ever have for crossing Silom Rd. If you were really adventurous and wanted to travel you could stay at The Niagara Hotel in Silom Soi 9. There were, it was rumoured, a few gay bars on Sukhumvit Rd.

The money boys spoke little or no English, so learning Thai was mandatory. I learned to both read and speak. I still read Thai Rath online; they have a very good iPad App. Unlike most sexpats I know that the Bangkok Post and The Nation are both local variants of Pravda and serve as the mouthpiece of the Thai Establishment.

Before I started my own restaurant I could travel to Bangkok as often as I wanted and from 1988 to 1991 that was roughly a week every two months. Since I've had my own restaurant it's only been once a year for a couple of weeks - twice a year if I'm feeling lucky. My boyfriend however spends about 3 months a year in Thailand every year - roughly a month at a time - and believes he's pretty much au courant with contemporary Thai values. At home, courtesy of the Internet, we can watch Thai soap opera which are also pretty good at expressing contemporary Thai values. We also home-stay Thai students studying in Sydney and they provide insights.

All-in-all I think my boyfriend and I have a keener appreciation for Thailand and its values than a johnny-come-lately seagull sexpat who seems to have gained his understanding in some sort of bargain basement Thai Wal-mart.

To round out the history lesson, Tinseltoes was succeeded by the democratically elected General Chatichai as Prime Minster. The Army overthrew him in 1991, citing "corruption". Twenty-five years later they're still at it. In the repression that followed the Chatichai coup the Army suppressed dissent by intimidation and martial law, and eventually shooting by Thai protesters. This time the suppression is by intimidation and martial law. How it turns out remains to be seen.

I am still waiting for you to reply to the OP's question? What would you have done.You really aren't paying attention, are you? My response is the fifth post on the very first page "I'm inclined to agree with Up2U on this one". More specifically Up2U's comment "maybe a quip, "is there room for one more?""

I mean I know you're a really stupid man, having spent more time in your company than is safe for anyone who values his sanity, but do try to keep up.

[firecat69]

Then all your blather since make little sense . As for anyone as stupid as you spending lots of time with me I can assure you that has never happened and never will.!!!

[firecat69]

Since your BF has lived for decades in Australia , I see no reason to consider his opinion any better then many here who spend many months every year in Thailand.You really are needy about engaging in a mine's-bigger-than-yours pissing contest, aren't you? So let me see.

I first began coming to Thailand when Tinseltoes was the military dictator - mid-eighties. In that time through until the early nineties the commercial gay scene in the Silom area was bounded by Silom and Suriwong Roads. You stayed at the acknowledged HQ for gay accommodation, the Suriwongse Hotel, whose coffee shop was littered with money boys 24/7, the only male gogo, certainly of note, was the Barbeiry almost next door. No need to cross Suriwong Road at all.

You could walk along Rama IV and find more money boys there or on the corner of Silom, outside Dairy Queen, itself the daytime headquarters of the gay tourist. The host bars were Garden Bar and Harry's who never charged me an "off fee" (I can't answer for others), where boys in street clothes loitered, no-one ever asking or requiring even drinks so far as I could tell. There was no need to ask their age because no-one cared.

The only gay disco was in Silom Soi 4 at the Rome Club, and an American called William started up the Telephone Bar and ran it for a year or two before selling out to a naive Canadian called Richard St Laurent. All the staff at Telephone Bar lived in a dormitory in Soi Pipat off Convent Rd; William and later Richard had an apartment in the same house as the boys' dormitory which proved to be more than useful to Richard's dreadful boyfriend Yot.

Going to Soi Pipat would be the only reason anyone would ever have for crossing Silom Rd. If you were really adventurous and wanted to travel you could stay at The Niagara Hotel in Silom Soi 9. There were, it was rumoured, a few gay bars on Sukhumvit Rd.

The money boys spoke little or no English, so learning Thai was mandatory. I learned to both read and speak. I still read Thai Rath online; they have a very good iPad App. Unlike most sexpats I know that the Bangkok Post and The Nation are both local variants of Pravda and serve as the mouthpiece of the Thai Establishment.

Before I started my own restaurant I could travel to Bangkok as often as I wanted and from 1988 to 1991 that was roughly a week every two months. Since I've had my own restaurant it's only been once a year for a couple of weeks - twice a year if I'm feeling lucky. My boyfriend however spends about 3 months a year in Thailand every year - roughly a month at a time - and believes he's pretty much au courant with contemporary Thai values. At home, courtesy of the Internet, we can watch Thai soap opera which are also pretty good at expressing contemporary Thai values. We also home-stay Thai students studying in Sydney and they provide insights.

All-in-all I think my boyfriend and I have a keener appreciation for Thailand and its values than a johnny-come-lately seagull sexpat who seems to have gained his understanding in some sort of bargain basement Thai Wal-mart.

To round out the history lesson, Tinseltoes was succeeded by the democratically elected General Chatichai as Prime Minster. The Army overthrew him in 1991, citing "corruption". Twenty-five years later they're still at it. In the repression that followed the Chatichai coup the Army suppressed dissent by intimidation and martial law, and eventually shooting by Thai protesters. This time the suppression is by intimidation and martial law. How it turns out remains to be seen.

Well whoop de do, You have averaged 2 weeks a year over the last 20 years while I have averaged 18 weeks a year for the last 15 years not counting 2 years that I lived full time in Thailand. You have your perceptions and I have mine but my extended stays in not ancient history times at least qualify me to comment. You are also entitled to your out dated opinions but I just won't pay much attention to them.

Whadda ya reckon hurt him the most lurker? At the beginning when you called him needy or at the end when you called him a seagull sexpat? I must remember that one. Seagull Sexpat.

[lego]

lurker, good to see that you've changed your mind about continuing to post here, now that you're back in Australia! Again, your "history lesson" offers very interesting insights. I first came to Bangkok about 20 years after you, and I'd be thrilled to read more about the 1980s and 90s here. :)

[dab69]

lurker, good to see that you've changed your mind about continuing to post here, now that you're back in Australia! Again, your "history lesson" offers very interesting insights. I first came to Bangkok about 20 years after you, and I'd be thrilled to read more about the 1980s and 90s here. :)

respect to those arguing with lurker, but I see I wasn't alone
finding his post interesting. I find the gay history of Bangkok and Pattaya
very interesting to imagine.

[Up2U]

I enjoyed lurkers gay history lesson but find his comments not particularly relevant to the question being discussed. Simply, it is not up to us (foreigners) to act as the social police or the social conscious of Thailand. I have not been at this BTS station since the coup. Perhaps there are armed military soldiers ensuring our happiness, but I do know there were uniformed guards, so if any law or custom was broken it is their responsibility to take action, not ours.

And now we have it. After several posters expressed the view that - as the Thais are a nation of sluts - Thais should not express any alarm or displeasure at public displays of affection, there's now a controversy raging among Thais about a couple who did kiss on the BTS - http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/11/07/k ... -or-couple (http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/11/07/kissing-couple-debate-rages-though-they-may-not-have-been-kissing-or-couple).

At least that's now cleared up. Thais may well be a nation of sluts (as firecat69 asserts) but many still disapprove of PDAs.

[thaiguest]

I still don't see what Thais would be upset about . They don't seem to mind all the nudity for everyone to see walking by Girly Bars in Bangkok, Pattaya etc. All the kids looking at the breasts on display.

And I still maintain the OP would have never started this thread if it were a man and a woman who were kissing. After all it is BKK where everything is available for a price , so Thais should not worry about any PDA's.

The vast majority of Thai people work on farms, in fish-processing plants, factories, offices, and so on.
Their lives revolve around family, making ends meet, religious festivals etc much like the lives of people all around the world.
Their only exposure to Girly Bars etc would be during rare visits to Bkk or Pattaya and they would stare in much greater wonderment at tthe goings-on than the foreign visitors.
Nudity and over the top displays of affection in public whether by gays or straight is regarded as rude, inappropriate and contrary to Buddhism.
The behaviour of the the two idiot fagots at Sala Deang station speaks for itself but also testifies to how much we farangs sometimes take Thai tolerance for granted.
These idiots wouldn't carry on like that in Saudi Arabia stupid as they obvioulsly are.
Nothing cools the heat of passion more than the prospect of 50 lashes.

Nothing cools the heat of passion more than the prospect of 50 lashes.I doubt TE Lawrence would have agreed - famous (apart from being Lawrence of Arabia) for his masochism and love of being beaten.

[lego]

Their only exposure to Girly Bars etc would be during rare visits to Bkk or Pattaya and they would stare in much greater wonderment at tthe goings-on than the foreign visitors.
Nonsense, there are "girly bars" all over Thailand, and guess who is frequenting them. The very salt-of-the-earth people (well, the male half) you've mentioned. That doesn't mean that they condone lewd behavior in public though. I dare you to name one Thai town of at least amphur size that doesn't have some kind of a brothel. You can't.

[thaiguest]

Their only exposure to Girly Bars etc would be during rare visits to Bkk or Pattaya and they would stare in much greater wonderment at tthe goings-on than the foreign visitors.
Nonsense, there are "girly bars" all over Thailand, and guess who is frequenting them. The very salt-of-the-earth people (well, the male half) you've mentioned. That doesn't mean that they condone lewd behavior in public though. I dare you to name one Thai town of at least amphur size that doesn't have some kind of a brothel. You can't.

Another example of perceived sameness i.e. that apples are oranges.
Of course Thai men have always maintained brothels right up to the present day rong reims -where a curtain is pulled to hide the car of the wayward cheating thai.
But the go-go bars with thai women in skimpy bikinis is particular to BKK, PATTAYA, PHUKET and maybe CHIANG MAI.
Can you name a single other CHANGWAT where this overt sex-for-sale goes on?

[thaiguest]

Nothing cools the heat of passion more than the prospect of 50 lashes.I doubt TE Lawrence would have agreed - famous (apart from being Lawrence of Arabia) for his masochism and love of being beaten.

And you can throw in T H Lawrence also.

[thaiguest]

I enjoyed lurkers gay history lesson but find his comments not particularly relevant to the question being discussed. Simply, it is not up to us (foreigners) to act as the social police or the social conscious of Thailand. I have not been at this BTS station since the coup. Perhaps there are armed military soldiers ensuring our happiness, but I do know there were uniformed guards, so if any law or custom was broken it is their responsibility to take action, not ours.

I enjoy history too but not when it 's presented as a idyllic treatise on how things were AND STILL OUGHT TO BE.
The past is a fake location because all that supported that subjective reality has been dismantled except in the minds of those who live there.
The HERE and the NOW is the only reality and even those are suspect.
Merry England was all good and well but it was also ridden with smallpox, bull-baiting, witch-burning and piss-pots.

Merry England was all good and well but it was also ridden with smallpox, bull-baiting, witch-burning and piss-pots.The latter three are alive and well on this Forum and in many other places on the Internet.
I dare you to name one Thai town of at least amphur size that doesn't have some kind of a brothel. You can't.lego's intimate knowledge of the location of every brothel in Thailand is without peer.

[lego]

Another example of perceived sameness i.e. that apples are oranges.
Of course Thai men have always maintained brothels right up to the present day rong reims -where a curtain is pulled to hide the car of the wayward cheating thai.
But the go-go bars with thai women in skimpy bikinis is particular to BKK, PATTAYA, PHUKET and maybe CHIANG MAI.
Can you name a single other CHANGWAT where this overt sex-for-sale goes on?
It was you who initially wrote "girly bar", which can be either an "apple" or an "orange" as per your afterthought distinction. I had karaoke joints and makeshift brothels targeting locals and often staffed with women from neighboring countries in mind; sure they're different from the go-go bar format targeting tourists, but ultimately it's the same business and the former aren't really any less "overt". I'm not talking about short-time rooms or love motels, mind you. The dress code might actually be quite similar - it's not unheard of that "hostesses" in private karaoke rooms wear skimpy bikinis, too. Then there are coyote girls in many Thai nightclubs, again frequented by your brave factory workers - they often dress skimpily, they dance and they can be "barfined" - not really such a big difference compared with sex workers at go-go bars!

Since you must know another changwat where overt sex-for-sale is going on at a very noticeable level, border areas are a good bet in general (to name one bordering Laos and another one bordering Cambodia, Nong Khai and Sa Kaeo fit the bill - and let's add Ranong bordering Myanmar for good measure, shall we?). Shit, I almost forgot how many Malaysians visit Sungai Kolok (in Changwat Narathiwat) and Hat Yai (in Changwat Songkhla) for their adult entertainment. The occasional Thai factory worker or rubber farmer might sneak in, too? These hives of sleaziness in border areas aren't surprising, no matter if foreign visitors or locals are the customers, not least because you wouldn't find many Thai ladies willing to work at such a venue, be it in reality or at the very least in this great nation's own view of its people. Finally, Pattaya isn't even a changwat, merely an oversized shithole (cancerous growth?).

[thaiguest]

Another example of perceived sameness i.e. that apples are oranges.
Of course Thai men have always maintained brothels right up to the present day rong reims -where a curtain is pulled to hide the car of the wayward cheating thai.
But the go-go bars with thai women in skimpy bikinis is particular to BKK, PATTAYA, PHUKET and maybe CHIANG MAI.
Can you name a single other CHANGWAT where this overt sex-for-sale goes on?
It was you who initially wrote "girly bar", which can be either an "apple" or an "orange" as per your afterthought distinction. I had karaoke joints and makeshift brothels targeting locals and often staffed with women from neighboring countries in mind; sure they're different from the go-go bar format targeting tourists, but ultimately it's the same business and the former aren't really any less "overt". I'm not talking about short-time rooms or love motels, mind you. The dress code might actually be quite similar - it's not unheard of that "hostesses" in private karaoke rooms wear skimpy bikinis, too. Then there are coyote girls in many Thai nightclubs, again frequented by your brave factory workers - they often dress skimpily, they dance and they can be "barfined" - not really such a big difference compared with sex workers at go-go bars!

Since you must know another changwat where overt sex-for-sale is going on at a very noticeable level, border areas are a good bet in general (to name one bordering Laos and another one bordering Cambodia, Nong Khai and Sa Kaeo fit the bill - and let's add Ranong bordering Myanmar for good measure, shall we?). Shit, I almost forgot how many Malaysians visit Sungai Kolok (in Changwat Narathiwat) and Hat Yai (in Changwat Songkhla) for their adult entertainment. The occasional Thai factory worker or rubber farmer might sneak in, too? These hives of sleaziness in border areas aren't surprising, no matter if foreign visitors or locals are the customers, not least because you wouldn't find many Thai ladies willing to work at such a venue, be it in reality or at the very least in this great nation's own view of its people. Finally, Pattaya isn't even a changwat, merely an oversized shithole (cancerous growth?).

YOU REMIND ME OF THE GUY WHO COULD NAME ONLY 2 MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS STARTING WITH THE LETTER V AND 10 ANIMALS WITH SPHERICAL EXCREMENT. IN OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW A LOT ABOUT SHIT.

YOU REMIND ME OF THE GUY WHO COULD NAME ONLY 2 MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS STARTING WITH THE LETTER V AND 10 ANIMALS WITH SPHERICAL EXCREMENT.Close friend is he?

[thaiguest]

YOU REMIND ME OF THE GUY WHO COULD NAME ONLY 2 MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS STARTING WITH THE LETTER V AND 10 ANIMALS WITH SPHERICAL EXCREMENT.Close friend is he?

C'mon you can do better than that!

[lego]

IN OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW A LOT ABOUT SHIT.
... guilty as charged, especially about clueless little shits as your good self. I understand you didn't feel like adding more of substance to the discussion and resorted to screaming instead. That's all very well and the only thing I'd like to add is this: if you're ever in need of a good spanking, get in touch. :-w