Kaikan 24 Shinjuku sauna, Tokyo

[svyturys]

I've posted my Japan trip report already but felt that Kaikan 24 sauna deserves a separate post.
I visited this sauna, located in the heart of gay Tokyo - Nichome, at the end of my trip, and it was a quiet interesting, bizarre experience.
I didn't plan a visit, but it happened randomly, when I met few European guys in a club. I thought 'why not'?
The place is well looked after and the lay out is quite unusual. The whole complex is on, I think, 7 floors. Interestingly, floors are covered in carpet, which makes it very cosy walking around. One floor has got all the typical sauna facilities, such as dry sauna, steam room, jaccuzi and showers with glory holes. The interesting part is the other floors, where the play rooms are. Saunas in Japan serve double purpose: sex and place to crash. Indeed, several floors were crammed with beds and mats. Hundreds of them. Hardly one of them was free. The place was full.
To my disappointment, majority of guys were sleeping and only about a quarter of the crowd was looking for action. However, those hunting were not shy to play with sleeping guys' cocks. It looks like that aggressive, or even violent, rejection is out of order in Japan.
The action was visible to everyone: no private rooms there. So this place is a real discovery for voyeurs. I think I could count myself as one of them.
The crowd was mixed, from 20's to much older. The majority of the guys weren't very attractive, however, I didn't see any horrors either, as it is common in Europe. A few boys were really sexy. I saw the boy that I couldn't take my eyes off at a club, but he was clearly very popular and it was quiet difficult to approach him. I overheard him talking to some other guy . He was a tourist from HK. Absolutely gorgeous young lad with lean body and cute face. Unfortunately, he disappeared quickly. No luck for me.
Now the most interesting part. I am in my early thirties and gym fit. I get lots of attention back in Europe and received over 200 messages on Jack D. However, here I felt largely ignored. It was something new to me and I couldn't understand it. I've read about difficulties, experienced by white guys in the saunas in Japan, but I thought they just weren't sexy enough. How wrong I was. I didn't know whether it's racism, some cultural thing or just shyness, due to inability to communicate in English. A few tried to touch me, but as they weren't my type, I rejected their advances. Others were behaving like I don't exist. Japan is a country of thousands rules and I might wasn't aware of the etiquette, but I felt they were racists towards me. I might have been wrong.
I left after a few hours, without having any action, but that wasn't the cause of my disappointment with the place. It was the rejection. I just couldn't understand it.
My Japanese friend, later, told me that Kaikan 24 is often frequented by whites, but at the time, there were very few of them and the place was very 'sticky rice'. I could have taken any of the white guys, they were fairly good looking and showed interest, but I was in Japan and wanted only sexy Japs :)
The whole experience was rather weird, but I would still recommend the place, as it is big, clean, busy and the action is for everyone to see. I guess it was still an interesting experience. One of the forum regulars has written about this sauna before and looks like he had a great time there. Try it when in Tokyo - you might have a different opinion.

[a447]

Hi svturys
I certainly had an interesting time there. But anybody visiting 24 must go with the expectation of just bring a spectator and not a participant (although my mate and I got quite a bit of action, as I reported).

I don't think it's just the Japanese who are basically only into themselves; I've read similar reports about Taiwan, HK and Korea. But S.E. Asia seems to be different, but perhaps because money is often involved. And I also think it's the shyness factor in Japan, as they don't speak English and are reluctant to make the first move on a foreigner. I've heard the same about Taiwan and Korea. In Jaoan sex, even in a gay sauna, is not just a case of a quick fuck and then goodbye. They take their time and chat a lot whilst having sex. Not being able to communicate with your foreign partner would be anathema to them - a bit like sitting in a bar with a Thai guy you can't communicate with. Just like I avoid these guys in a bar,the Japanese do likewise as they also do not like the awkward silence.

Please don't think racism is involved here, as that word has very negative connotations. The Japanese were not being negative towards you; they just weren't interested in having sex with a foreigner. That's entirely different from being racist - there was no hate involved towards you. (BTW, that's not to say that the Japanese in general are not racist; I'm not saying that at all.)

I did see a hook-up between a Japanese guy and a youngish foreigner - they spent hours fucking on the top bunk, with the foreigner being the bottom. They were talking in a English as they took a rest in between but the Japanese guy couldn't speak it very well. The foreigner was babbling on in English and it was obvious his partner didn't have a clue what was being said. I imagine it would have been very uncomfortable for the Japanese guy to try and keep a conversation going when he can't understand much.

As opposed to the gay places in Europe, you won't see guys walking around completely naked, brandishing their hard-ons in 24. As you are probably aware, the Japanese are very good at following rules, and one of the rules in 24 is that you must either wear the
gown or cover yourself with the towel. I only saw one guy breaking the rules in the shower area next to the baths. Shame on him!
And as you indicated,the place is very clean and we'll run, as you would expect in Japan.

For some, a visit to any gay establishment would be a bit of a disappointment if you're looking for sex, but if you're into looking at sex, you'll have a great time. I wouldn't recommend anyone go to Japan for sex, but if you're already there, by all means give 24 a go.

So what's the key to getting heaps of hot sex in Japan?
A) speak the language
B) make friends with a local who is a member of a sex club and get him to introduce you to the mamasan. More than likely, you'll be offered a membership, too.
C) oh, and if you are offered membership, be prepared to open your wallet wide...lol. Fun doesn't come cheap in Japan!

[svyturys]

I wouldn't recommend anyone go to Japan for sex

!

I would definitely disagree with this statement. I spent two weeks in Japan and had sex twice, but I could have done it everyday, and not once. However, as my primary goal was to see the country, I simply did not have time, or energy, after day's sightseeing. I received over 200 hundred messages on JackD and got lots of attention in the gay clubs. I've been told that the majority of Japanese would not have sex with a foreigner for a number of reasons. One of them being the language barrier. However, there is a sizeable minority that is very keen on meeting foreigners. Generally, these types have spent some time abroad and can communicate in English. That would prove the fact that shyness and inability to communicate is the main obstacle.
One thing I could not understand was why it wasn't the same in the sauna, which should be the easiest place to hook up; or at least that's what we, westerners, think.
I noticed, however, that when other Japs didn't see, people were making an eye contact. It felt that locals don't want to be seen having sex with a foreigner (there are no private cabins there). It's like some sort of cultural stigma.

[colmx]

Its been around 5 years since i was in 24 Kaikan
However I visited both Shinjuku(3 times) and Ueno (Once)

On all occasions i had satisfactory sexual encounters (I'm sounding like ChristianPFC here!)... The most memorable was in Ueno where it turned into a 4 way in the cinema room ;-)

From my experience of Japanese saunas... is sounds to me like the OP was a bit too aggressive if he attracted no interest... staring at a guy or groping him in the farnag way is not the way to garner interest...

Lie down on a bunk or in one of the smaller dark rooms or even in the cinema areas.... and wait for the guys to come to you...
They are certainly interested in trying experiences with GWM or foreign guys (especially in Shinjuku) - but no way they will approach directly (unless they have previously lived in Europe/US)... so my advice is to just relax and wait for the guys to come to you!

[colmx]

By the way - strangest thing i found was howw the Brazil-Japanese mix guys always hang out in the area near the wet rooms in 24K Shinjuku...
Its almost like that area is their turf and nobody else is welcome there
(or it may be that they are not welcome on the rest of the floors?)
They were certainly the closest thing to a MB that i came across when i was in Tokyo....

[a447]

The most memorable was in Ueno where it turned into a 4 way in the cinema room ;-)

Speaking of cinemas, there is also an actual cinema next to the stairs leading down to the lake in Ueno.
I visited this cinema during my last trip and it has now turned into a cinema showing straight "porn" but I believe the gays still go there fir some action. Nobody ever watched the movies anyway. So it's a place to keep in mind.

I've had so much fun there over the years. I remember when the Arabs started invading Japan -they could travel there without a visa as Japan needed people to do the shit jobs Japanese refused to do, and also needed their oil. They all gathered in Ueno, many living on the streets. Some, however, found their way into the cinema. Although they didn't attract much attention from the locals, they got plenty from me...lol. Some we'll-hung guys on offer, but a bit too hirsute for my tastes.

We didn't use Jack'd but it appears we should have! When I said I wouldn't recommend going to Japan for sex, I was comparing it to Thailand where sex is on tap 24/7. I guess if you look hard enough, sex is available everywhere in the world. It's just that I'm too lazy to make the effort...Haha


One thing I could not understand was why it wasn't the same in the sauna, which should be the easiest place to hook up; or at least that's what we, westerners, think.

I think it's a bold step for Japanese to approach a foreigner for sex - it's a step into the great unknown,whereas with another Japanese they know exactly what to expect. Also, I got the feeling that many of the clients were regulars and kind of knew each other from previous visits/encounters and that would make it difficult to desert the locals in favour of a foreigner.

[goji]

I got plenty of action in my late 30s and early 40s on trips to the sauna in Shinjuku.
By western standards, I'm slim, but far from, er, photogenic.
Things have slowed down now I am in my late 40s.

Never mind. When going elsewhere in Shinjuku, the rent boys must offer the best customer service in the world.

Your right the Japanese are racists there street in Bangkok is full of girlie bars where the Japanese can guarantee the girl hasnt been polluted by going with a white guy.

[egel]

I am in my early thirties and gym fit

I get lots of attention back in Europe and received over 200 messages on Jack D

I felt largely ignored. It was something new to me

I rejected their advances. Others were behaving like I don't exist

that wasn't the cause of my disappointment with the place. It was the rejection. I just couldn't understand it.


I could have taken any of the white guys, they were fairly good looking and showed interest


The whole experience was rather weird, ....Oh really?

[fountainhall]

A few comments on the Shinjuku '24' and the other two of the same name - in Ueno and Asakusa (not to be confused with Akasaka)!

The oldest - and frankly the least clean - is '24' in Asakusa near the famous Sensoji Temple. This has been in operation for at least 25 years and was one of the few to admit foreigners (gaijin) after most of the other sauna owners banned us. That ban was in the belief that it would prevent HIV from spreading locally, a forlorn hope. Visiting this '24' when I worked in Tokyo, I found that few patrons spoke English and whilst there were always a few students and younger guys, most were generally a lot older.

It's not so well known that Ueno is the district with the second highest number of gay establishments in Tokyo after Shinjuku ni-chome. But don't expect many gaijin in the bars here as most are only for Japanese and you will certainly need to speak at least some Japanese to gain entry. The '24' in Ueno, though, is far more relaxed and is perfectly happy to admit gaijin. The whole area is generally more 'working class' than up-market Shinjuku but gaijin can often be quite popular in '24' because at least some Japanese are curious both to spend some time with a gaijin and to check on 'size' which is reputed to be larger than Japanese! ;) Quite a few younger guys visit this '24'.

'24' in Shinjuku ni-chome is the most recent, the biggest, the easiest to get to and therefore the most popular with gaijin. There will be a broad mix of ages with quite a few younger guys as it is closer to several of the universities. As colmx mentions in his post, don't expect most Japanese to respond to more direct western-style approaches. Many Japanese just do not feel comfortable with gaijin, for whatever reasons. The OP wonders if it may be racism, some cultural thing or just shyness. It's a mix of all three IMHO, with the added factor that most Japanese have grown up in a totally closed Japanese environment, speak little English and so are comfortable only with fellow Japanese. On the other hand, some do go to this '24' specifically in the hope of meeting a foreigner. Re age, there are still some Japanese guys who like older less in-shape gaijin. Best times, I have found, are week-ends and week-day late afternoons (although the bathing area is usually closed for cleaning around 6:00pm). So whilst it may take a little time, you can still have quite a bit of fun there. If not, then just enjoy the sight of naked in-shape Japanese guys in the bathing, shower and steam rooms. And if you are totally out of luck, the gay bars and host bars are only minutes away.

[a447]

with the added factor that most Japanese have grown up in a totally closed Japanese environment, speak little English and so are comfortable only with fellow Japanese.

Spot on -as usual. They have, indeed, grown up in a very tight, closed environment and this has lead to attitudes towards farang bring misinterpreted as rascist. We know that it is a totally wrong interpretation of the facts. Farang take them out of their comfort zone.

Fountainhall, your inside knowledge of Japan often amazes me.

I would be very interested to see if any farang can get into a gay bar in Ueno - at least one where sex is on offer. Ueno tends to be for Japanese only and anyway, most of the signs are in Japanese so if you can't read the language you'd be wandering around for hours. There are much better ways to spend your time in gay Tokyo. Also, many of the places are not signposted at all; you need insider knowledge. I at first thought this was to keep the cops at bay, until I realised one of the guys I had my mouth attached to at the time was an off-duty policeman from the local police box! He laughed when I suggested he arrest us both and we go spend some time in a cell together.

[fountainhall]

I have been extremely lucky a447. Not only did I work there for a couple of years, I have also visited Tokyo at least 50 times, mostly for business and so thankfully paid for by someone else! But IтАЩll usually add a couple of days for my own activities! It helps also to have Japanese friends.


many of the places are not signposted at all
Signposting in general is a real problem for visitors, especially first-timers. Streets mostly do not have names, and the numbering system for houses/offices seems bizarre. Here a little homework helps, as well as a bilingual atlas. As I have posted somewhere before, I swear by this one (which I got at Asia Books in BKK). With a bit of patience you will be able to work out the wards, districts and blocks. And by knowing the names of major buildings, it becomes relatively easy to get from subway stations (where signage is now all bilingual) to ni-chome or other places you want to visit.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l597/fountainhall/Tokyo_Atlas.jpg (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/fountainhall/media/Tokyo_Atlas.jpg.html)


I think it's a bold step for Japanese to approach a foreigner for sex - it's a step into the great unknown . . .
My turn to say 'spot on'! Much has been written here and on other threads about the Japanese being difficult to approach. There is a very interesting book The Japanese Mind by Robert Christopher. Although written in 1983, much still remains relevant. Key to any understanding of Japan, suggests Christopher, is that whereas the Japanese have adapted to the westernization of much of their society, the country remains the most homogeneous of all the worldтАЩs major nations and is thus able to preserve a keen sense of their own special identity. This is not only because it was totally closed to western influence for 250 years during the Shogun era. Much more importantly, there has been no real addition to the Japanese gene pool since the 8th century тАЬwhich means that for more than a thousand years a great ethnic blender has been whipping the originally diverse components of the Japanese race into a single uniform substance.тАЭ

As a result of this and other aspects of their culture, Japanese society is basically as exclusionary today as it was centuries ago. Foreigners will always remain just that тАУ foreign. And most Japanese have drummed into them from early childhood that they are expected to behave as others expect them to behave. Since chatting up strangers does not fit that part of the culture, most guys find it very difficult to break through that barrier with any non-Japanese. So they decide it's better not to try! But fortunately for us, there are always some gems waiting to be discovered by gaijin!