The tourist police in Pattaya............

[catawampuscat]

The thread on the raid in Diamond Pub mentions that it was the tourist police who made the raid and the arrest...
It would take just a couple of tourist police to be stationed within a few metres of Diamond Pub to severly reduce the numbers of
underage children who flock to this soi and the surrounding area.. For a long time there was a curfew in effect and it worked, but
after a few months , the heat was off and slowly the children returned and every week they seem even younger and younger..
It is so blatant sometimes, that it looks like there must be an elementary school around as there are so many children on the streets, on
the motorbikes, sitting whereever there is a place to rest and all ready to give it up for some easy money..

There have been times when I have seen flagrant and disturbing scenes with extrememly obese or elderly farangs with tiny tots in their arms and on
their laps.. sometimes I don't understand the complete lack of shame on the farangs part or their complete lack of fear of police or social condemnation..
The worst bar is next to Diamond and while some hide behind the plants, it is truly outrageous and incredibly stupid thing for the
farangs to do...
Well, my friends, now we know that if you call the Tourist Police on your mobile tel.#1155, I believe, and report flagrant child rapists operating
in the open, there is a chance that they will get to see the living hells called prisons in Thailand..My guess is that someone called the tourist
police and was the cause of the raid.. Now , none of us can stand on high moral ground, when we know that all we have to do is report the child
rapists, using our mobiles phones to stop the abuse, stop the raping, stop the sickness from growing and infesting ... 1155!!! 1155!! Watch out!!!

Yes, I think Sunnee would be enhanced if the underaged thing was stopped, but until there is a real crackdown on the business owners involved, in other words, as long as there is money in it, not too optimistic.

Most of us have seen the surreal visions of 300 pound farangs with tots in their laps, and it makes an interesting postcard, but I seriously doubt that behavior is technically illegal. Shameless yes. I think the law comes into play when police find a farang naked in a room etc. ... not sitting fully clothed in a cafe ...

Why dont they have something like in BKK outside DJ station? ID checkpoints!

[andrewcraig]

The worst bar is next to Diamond and will some hide behind the plants, it is truly outrageous and incredibly stupid thing for the farangs to do...


From the other post I assume that Diamond is the old Amigo. So which is the other bar you are referring to

[Marsilius]

Quote: "There have been times when I have seen flagrant and disturbing scenes with extrememly obese or elderly farangs with tiny tots in their arms and on their laps.."

I merely ask why the writer considers the scenes involving "extrememly [sic.] obese or elderly farangs" any more "disturbing" (and so worth picking out in particular) than those involving slim or young foreigners?

Why dont they have something like in BKK outside DJ station? ID checkpoints!

I'm not sure that it even needs to go that far -- just the occasional patrol by the police should already be enough of a deterrent (assuming that they actually do something when they see young children in bars!).

I also hope that the underage problem in Sunee gets cleaned up -- there are a handful of pubs in that neighbourhood that I quite enjoy, but I am loathe to frequent them if that means being tarred with the same brush as those going for the underage kids.

[quote="mumbaighost
I'm not sure that it even needs to go that far -- just the occasional patrol by the police should already be enough of a deterrent (assuming that they actually do something when they see young children in bars!). .[/quote]

Have I got the right board or was it elsewhere I read it?

Was there not a poster many months ago who worked with one of the NGO's and was involved with the Pattaya Child Protection office who was able to give details as to how the kids picked up in these raids were helped?

Reading the original post I know know why my trips to Pattaya are so infrequent and usually under pressure from freinds who want to see ther city.

DELETED

[Doug]

Obviously place like this cannot open advertise their wares. Could it be that this arrest and the associated newspaper report is a form of advertising. If the place is owned by an official who will get just a "slap on the wrist" what damage is done to the business? But when the place is named with it's location and distributed to internation news organizations, won't it simply attract a greater number of "fat?" farangs to illegal activities.

For a deterrent, why not concentrate news reports on those convicted and what their life is like now.

Have I got the right board or was it elsewhere I read it?

Not sure but I haven't seen that post




Reading the original post I know know why my trips to Pattaya are so infrequent and usually under pressure from freinds who want to see ther city.

There are good and bad sides to Pattaya -- some very nice neighbourhoods, pleasant atmosphere, and it is always lovely to be by the sea (even if I would not swim in it...). Even Sunee has some charming little pubs. But you have hit the nail on the head with your comment -- the few nasty places that pimp children ruin the image of the entire community, including those nice places who don't deserve such an image.

[Smiles]

" ... and it is always lovely to be by the sea ( even if I would not swim in it ) ... "
Heard this kind of sentiment before, and never understood it.
If you've pitched tent in an exotic and tropical country, with the ocean surf surrounding you, and you like ~ and want ~ it that way . . . why on earth would one live in Pattaya when one cannot jump in (the ocean I mean :albino: ) when one feels the urge?

In The Godfather some mobster said (gravely ... to another mobster) " ... Pasquale swims with the fishes ... " Good thing that wasn't in Pattaya ( it was New York!! :blackeye: ) as " ... Pasquale swims with the turds ... " doesn't have that certain 'ring'.

Cheers ...

I thought it was Lukabradsie swims with the fishes

[Smiles]

" ... I thought it was Lukabradsie swims with the fishes ... "
It was, but I couldn't remember the name and was feeling too lazy to Google it. Thanks!!
"Pasquale" has that All-Italian feel to it so I thought it would suffice . . . . ( knowing full well that someone would come along and give up the proper name. Didn't take long :blackeye: ).

Cheers ...

[
There are good and bad sides to Pattaya -- some very nice neighbourhoods, pleasant atmosphere, and it is always lovely to be by the sea (even if I would not swim in it...). Even Sunee has some charming little pubs. But you have hit the nail on the head with your comment -- the few nasty places that pimp children ruin the image of the entire community, including those nice places who don't deserve such an image.

Generally oversea visitors that ask me to take them to visit Pattaya simply want to go to see what all the fuss is about.

Mention Pattaya overseas and most people now asscoaiete it and its vistors with the child sex trade.

Even here at my office in Bangkok if I mention to any of the Thais that I am taking visitors to Pattaya they raise eyebrows and ask why I want to go 'that bad place only falang want take baby go there'

The problem is that whilst these sort of posting rightly do a lot to expose the disgusting side of Pattaya they also serve as a compass for those looking to indulge in that very trade.

A cleft stick dilemma.

the shonky footpaths..the girlie bars..the dirty sea...the hundreds of building sites..the mounds of rubbish ??

... the bar in question is the one accross from Monty's Pool Bar? I don't know the name of the bar but when I have raised the topic with friends they have said that it stays open because it pays a very tidy sum to the police. Whilst the police are taking bribes I doubt there is very little that can be done to rid Sunee of this appalling trade.

[catawampuscat]

I have been a bit strident in my postings about farang misbehavior, especially in open air bars, and think we should all just ignore this
situation and just debate whether the legal age should be 16 or 17 or even 14 or 15 years of age..Let us ignore the predators who rape
those, well under even these ages and brag about it in Sunee bars.. Who cares, if these men are criminals in Belgium or Italy or
the UK and have spent time in prison for their behavior.. Well I do!!

I am personally insulted and disgusted when I am subjected to hearing about the little boys some of the pedos brag and or remember with a grin.. I don't understand this behavior and have been told most of these men were themselves raped when they were 5 or 6 or 9 or 10 years old.. Some fixate on the age group of their own rape and some do not..
I am not a prude but I do feel endangered by the lowlife predators who make it very easy for others to attack gay men as many think all gay men
are child molestors and pedos..Of course, many straight or hetero men are also pedos and I imagine there must be lowlifes that supply
these degenerates as well...

This behavior is unstoppable and I only wish the men who feel no shame fondling babies in open air bars and have no fear of reprisal would
start to think that maybe someone will call the tourist police and report them.. Hiding it behind closed doors is only cosmetic it but if I have to witness
child rapists at work then I should take action.. What should you do?? What is moral and right?? Oh let's ignore this situation and maybe it will go away...

[cottmann]

catawampuscat, but I would think your views have many supporters on this board, including me.

I do not condone anyone breaking the law.
But I find the moralising tone and emotive words such as 'rape', 'tiny tots' and 'babies' etc, do not fit this case do they? I dont think a 16 year old is a tiny tot or a baby. Nor do I think that a 'used condom on the floor' suggests the boy was raped. Perhaps the customer is a 'bottom'!?

Maybe some people DO rape babies and tiny tots but I dont think it is the case here is it? I suspect that if you have to exagerate the facts to make an argument then you are just being mischeavous.

However, this case is yet another strong reminder that we should always abide by the law of the land we are in at the time, and I have a suggestion to make.

I think the forum must have many, many new visitors month in month out who are unaware of (a) the law, and (b) how to read a Thai ID card.
S
Maybe it would be a good idea to have a posting setting out these two matters at the top of the forum listings, as a permament fixture, to give everyone the best chance of staying on the right side of the law.

Generally oversea visitors that ask me to take them to visit Pattaya simply want to go to see what all the fuss is about.

Mention Pattaya overseas and most people now asscoaiete it and its vistors with the child sex trade.

Even here at my office in Bangkok if I mention to any of the Thais that I am taking visitors to Pattaya they raise eyebrows and ask why I want to go 'that bad place only falang want take baby go there'

The problem is that whilst these sort of posting rightly do a lot to expose the disgusting side of Pattaya they also serve as a compass for those looking to indulge in that very trade.

A cleft stick dilemma.

Fair comment (and I'm sure you are spot on about the compass bit) -- although a lot of the folks in my office when I was working in Bangkok had holiday homes in Jomtien, and would take their kids there for the weekend.

Here in Hong Kong Pattaya has a different reputation: cheap golf. Tomorrow I'm bringing 11 business partners across the border to Dongguan -- home to over 6,000 brothels (which we will not be visiting given that I'm footing the bill!!), a wide range of manufacturing, and the second worst air on the planet. For the priveledge of two rounds of golf in this cesspool and a night in a very ordinary hotel, at group rate and negociated by a local, I'm paying 12,500 baht per person, plus meals.

If I don't die of heat stroke (Dongguan is nowhere near the sea, and there will be no breeze to be had) or my lungs collapsing, I will go to Jomtien next weekend, choose from the 21-odd courses around Pattaya, and my whole weekend -- airfare, 2 nights hotel, golf, excellent meals, and two bottles of Gordon's at the Bondi -- will probably cost less than this craptific two days in southern China! And of course there is the added benefit of spending time with delightful friends who have retired in Pattaya.

Again, I wouldn't swim there, but I would not swim in Brighton (or Provincetown during the short stint when I was stationed in the states) either -- just enjoy the beach in a gay friendly place.

Of course I would rather go to somewhere like Boracay or Krabi for those weekends when I 'sneak away' from the office, but they are not as easily accessible: changing planes in Manila is hell, and the few direct flights to Krabi are not compatible with people who work Monday to Friday. So for a weekend getaway where we can play a bit, be gay if we want to and generally 'let our hair down' (need to find a replacement for this expression which is more appropriate for us bald cunts...), Pattaya is pretty much it.

Having sex with a baby is the exact same crime -- statutory rape -- as it is with a sixteen year old. A sixteen year old cannot legally give "consent" to a john to have sex with him/her, thus it is legally rape.

PS: it's also of zero consequence as to whether the sixteen year-old took the active or passive role in the sex act.

Ben Franklin advised a young man to court older women: at the 'grateful age," because they don't tell, they don't yell, they don't swell and they're grateful as hell!
In Thailand the 'grateful age' for a num seems to be about twenty-three to twenty-four and up: what a friend calls: "Past his shelf life." (Shelf-life...as a go-go boy?...Or for my friend... I'm not sure and won't dignify by asking--But not past the sell-by date, obviously: there are so many more-mature men sitting around in beer-bars... unfortunately...often right next door to one of the 'Chicken Palaces'--And I don't mean KFC--But if Diamond is looking for (another) new name....


I don't understand this behavior and have been told most of these men were themselves raped when they were 5 or 6 or 9 or 10 years old..

Add to that something newer: AIDS.
Men are traveling to countries where child prostitutes are easily available--Under the belief they are free from HIV\AIDS, just as babies too young to walk or talk are being gang-raped, for the same reason, in African countries where AIDS may be as high as 40% of the population.

Television shows (i.e.: Oprah**) that show fourteen-year-old boy prostitutes (Legal age there, I think--Which she didn't bother to mention.) in Italy, being pimped by their fathers and Hollywood stars (Brad & Angie) on the news crusading to help abandoned children--Of course showing groups of stunningly beautiful ones--in Africa & India forced into prostitution to earn the cost of a meal: less than ┬г1....It's like Bob Robbie yelling: "COME ON DOWN!" I'll bet travel agents and sites were as red hot the next day as a 1┬в sale at Cartier's!

**Media whore, Oprah, also pitched, to her clueless, easily shockable middle-American audience, a bit on a 'notorious' pedo-pimp in the UK who links men up--Pimps, if you will--with 'boys' via his computer data-base--And...gasp..."the (UK) police can't touch him," beyond a warning to stay off the internet. The man was filmed, in front of his computer, on concealed video-cam. Every young man he mentioned ("Oh, this one is delicious!") was of legal age in the country where he 'works'--So he operates within the law--Or suspected\knew he was being set up?

Whether pedo or kidnapper (In case they think no one is watching.); there have been cases recently, in Mexico & South America, of tourists being beaten--In one case, a couple was ripped apart--by angry\fearful locals simply for smiling at a child. In another, two pre-teen boys disappeared overnight. They had spent the night waiting for a man who promised to bring (Smuggle) them to America. The man was lucky he changed his mind--And left town--poor people do love their children.

We can post anonymous messages here or write signed letters (AYOR: could be as risky as sitting in one of 'those' places, drinking and loudly shooting ones mouth off about the traffic in the under aged; as one man did--Tenderfoot who did not realize he was talking to one of the worst offenders...the kiddies hadn't shown up yet: too early...Mad Dogs & Englishmen...and was physically attacked by several young men in a main Sunnee Soi on a bright sunny afternoon.) to Thai\Pattaya newspapers or go lay in a complaint at the police station (And run like hell!) but in the end, like it or not, the best we may be able to do is not bring our custom to those places. Even buying a drink helps keep them afloat.

[catawampuscat]

IwanUK- I used the tiny tots , babies and rape in my posting and if you were in Pattaya today , you could have seen the local English language news on Cable TV..
The raid was given lots of time and the American was shown in the Police Station and behaved like he was in for a speeding ticket..
The raid story was detailed and the Thai manager confessed and among the youngest taken in by the police were two 12 year old boys from Malaysia..
Here illegally by the way....

When I was 12 y.o. I think I was in the fifth or sixth grade of elementary school and just starting puberty.. The idea of having sex with men many times my age and size at that age is warped.. Where were you, IwanUK ,when you were 12?? Did you have any pubic hairs yet or chow wow for the first time..Probably not and wow...you were still a baby, a tiny tot and if men were having sex with you , it would be rape in anyone's mind and opinion..
OK, this farang picked a 16y.o. but it could have been one of the 12 y.o.s just as easily.....

Just the facts and no sensationalism IwanUK...
Oh, maybe the farang thought the 12 y.o.'s were actually 18 y.o. and it was all an innocent mistake...Not!!

When you were 12 I bet you had food to eat, nice clothes, was able to go to school, and the doctors when you needed to. You also had the tv, theaters, christmas, birthdays and holidays filled with presents. I am not knocking you or anyone else. I am simply saying that until there is compulsory schooling and training and the social support needed to tend to the needs of the poor not much will change. When one or ones family is hungry they will do what it takes to eat.

I am simply saying that until there is compulsory schooling and training and the social support needed to tend to the needs of the poor not much will change. When one or ones family is hungry they will do what it takes to eat.

You are of course correct.

However if the perverts visiting to look for children for sex were not there in the first place the situation would not occur.

I know that the situation will aways exist but a nation's residents being poor is not justification to excuse child molesters/rapists farang or Thai.

DELETED

[catawampuscat]

JB tries to insult this poster by changing my handle to a female one , as if that is a bad thing.. I think JB has a problem with
women and if he thinks calling this poster a woman is a bad or hurtful thing, then it shows me how twisted and perverse his morality is..
His criticism is directed toward the messenger and he has no qualms about the 12 y.o. boys working illegally and being raped.. Disturbing morality..

Don't respond to how you feel about 5th and 6th grade children being sexually molested in every orifice of their tiny bodies ,
penetrated by men 4 or 5 times their age and weight.. No, that is not the issue here, the problem is cattawampuscat is really a woman and that
is the horror and the matter of disgust..How perverse is your world JB!!

Nobody said the arrested and soon to be fucked for life American was with the 12 y.o.'s and nobody freaked out over the age of the 16 y.o. I even
commented on how a debate over what the legal age should be is an open question.. If he was caught with the 12 y.o. boys, would you have a problem
with that or would your respond be to attack the messenger and compare him to the tabloids..

I know you are a friend of the village idiot and no stranger to the places that cater to sex tourists, even if you only buy a drink and look.. What disturbs one person does't bother another and that is just a fact of life..

The sooner the baby raper scene is closed down or goes back into hiding the better for all gay men who loves Thailand.. This tiny minority of child molestors should not be encouraged by our silence and tacit approval.. I am not at all concerned about the child rapists endangering me, but it is
the "mafia" that feeds this scene with tiny boys, drugs, guns and violence..There is a lot of money to be made, blackmail alone is a goldmine and
this money has corrupting influences of the moralilty of the suppliers of the demand for the baby boys..

Maybe if more Germans had stood up to the Nazis in the early 1930's, some of the horrors to follow would have been averted or altered...Perhaps not,
but one has to question the morality of the tacit approval of the Germans of that day and I question the morality of farangs who see and witness
child rape and exploitation and go about their lives without doing anything.. Do they still go to churches and think they are moral men??

[Smiles]

" ... Maybe if more Germans had stood up to the Nazis in the early 1930's, some of the horrors to follow would have been averted ... "
Hmmmm . . . normally the 'Law of Message Board Posting' states (something along the lines of) that any given topic, if allowed to continue to it's often illogical conclusion, will ~ sooner or later ~ evoke the word "Nazi" or at the very least, an intimation that all who disagree with "you" are acting "Nazi-like".

Usually this inevitable progression takes some time ~ and many replies ~ to deteriorate to that point, but in this little hot button topic it has gotten to that place in just 2 pages. A record I believe.

Hell, the famous topic (on PattayaGay Board started by some dude named PaulyUSA007 ~ or something like that) regarding the proposition that all GoGo boys are in fact nothing but disgraceful "prostitutes" took at least 5 pages to get to even a hint of Nazification.

I'm proud of you all ... carry on :wav:

Cheers ...

Its proper name is The Law of Forum Entropy and is usually stated as "all threads will end in one of three ways (1) name calling (2) the price of an "off" (3) there must be a third one but I can't think of it right now. Perhaps Pearl can help"

[Smiles]

Actually DreadNed had a specific name for the spiralling downward towards calling other people Nazi's if they held certain views or put forward certain arguments. For the life of me I cannot remember what he called it, but I'll always remember the nasty post in which I first witnessed it.

"Entropy" has to do with the Dante-esque fall (of everything, sooner or later) into chaos and then, further, into the quiet vacuum of nothingness. So I guess that applies to message board topics as well.

Cheers ...

I notice that in all the postulating, defending of positions and name-calling my "Constructive suggestion" to try and remind people of the law and explain to them how to stay within the law was completely ignored.
Irrespective of the age of the boy and the size/weight of the falang, is that not what this discussion is really about?
Maybe it wasn't such a good idea after all.

DELETED

[andrewcraig]

This immotive crap being spoken by catwoman and others .

I suppose that John will not object to being called Shirley or some female name, as he thinks it OK to do so to others.

This immotive crap being spoken by catwoman and others .

I suppose that John will not object to being called Shirley or some female name, as he thinks it OK to do so to others.

Shirley?... Isn't that a boy's name?

Surely it is.

[lonelywombat]

I think Johnnys name should be MOLLY.

His car rental business is too expensive to use.I have just rented a car,manual trans,for 7 days,unlimited Km for $215 for the week.About 7000b roughly and thats what MOLLY charges,no wonder is business is going to the Land DownUnder.

Do they have rent a wreck in LOS

[Bob]

I have just rented a car,

Did you have to sit on a phone book to see? And did the shocks go "ouch!"? :clown:

The way you attack everyone and their business, you should be afraid to show yourself in LOS. How can you get so much hot air inside that midget sized body?

DELETED

I think Johnnys name should be MOLLY.

His car rental business is too expensive to use.I have just rented a car,manual trans,for 7 days,unlimited Km for $215 for the week.About 7000b roughly and thats what MOLLY charges,no wonder is business is going to the Land DownUnder.


If you are going to refer to my business my LITTLE FAT friend, then make sure you are familiar with the facts. My weekly rates are much lower than what you have quoted and start at 5,000 Baht for 7 days inclusive of FULL insurance, bail bond, 24 hour breakdown roadside assistance, unlimited km's.

But, many thanks for allowing me to promote my competative rates here I am sure you have generated more business for my booming car rental business.

can u take back seat oot to make room for fatboi i think he not fit you car

Should we offer a reward to the person that takes a pic of the real boygeorge/badboybilly? Camera requirements need to be able to take short(midget size) photo but with a WIDE angle lens to capture all the bulk.

Camera requirements need to be able to take short(midget size) photo but with a WIDE angle lens to capture all the bulk.

The wonderful world of Minolta! :cheers:
My camera has a panorama lens\setting.
In Salzburg; I could get several gnomes, in the Gnome Garden, in the same shot.
It should do very nicely for one squat pot-bellied gnome in a queen-size chicken suit--But may need a (feculence) filter.
The real problem is where to hang it.
Suggestions?

[Smiles]

" ... Should we offer a reward to the person that takes a pic of the real boygeorge/badboybilly? Camera requirements need to be able to take short(midget size) photo but with a WIDE angle lens to capture all the bulk.... "

The PattayaMail has already done it for you:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/sawatdeephotos/Images/boygeorge1.jpg


Cheers ...

[Dodger]

Sorry Smiles...wrong guy.

This fellow measures up at around 185 cm, and according to the numerous public sitings of BBB, he stands at about 150 cm. Also, the person they arrested reportedly robbed a bank somewhere...and BBB couldn't even see above the counter. Also, BBB reportedly works in an honest trade as a postal delivery person...not anything like the monster the police captured.

But don't worry, I can almost guarantee you that we'll have a picture of BBB to share with the group soon...perfect for a mini-DVD.

he wasn't an Aussie of course but the offer of 100,000 baht from another police officer to let the man go really is a great example of how things operate in Thailand...it was merely mentioned in passing. The rag you got that from , which seems determined to emulate the gutter press of the UK just wrote it up like it was just another tiny factor in the case, just like it's counter part TV show which gleefully broadcasts images of lately deceased bodies usually with a policeman helpfully parting a recently executed person's hair to show just where the bullet entered.

is that not what this discussion is really about?No, what it's really about is to provide an opportunity to air their suppressed suspicions about themselves. Remember the pathology of the homophobe? There's a view that homophobes are actually suppressing the fear that they have of their own homosexual feelings by externalising those feelings. The stronger those feelings are expressed, the more likely it is that the homophobe secretly (but won't admit even to himself) has some homosexual interests. Far be it from me to suggest that the same pathology may apply to those who express strong feelings about paedophiles

And then there's those who are in complete denial (maybe another form of anxiety?) that by far the greatest majority of paedophiles (probably far in excess of 95%) are uncles who prey on their neices or nephews and are never caught or convicted

and there are those who are in the greatest denial that the vast majority of pedo activity and child abuse is amongst Thais themselves, always has been , cotiinues unabated and some crazy westerners think that if some hapless fool gets caught in a bar with an underage person it's going to make the slightest difference...and as if they actually give a stuff !!

It isn't the farang visitors who cause this trade..it's the Thai thugs who have realised there is money to be made out of passing on part their sordid activities to westerners.

Get real folks..this is a land of some very nasty people..although the vast majority are awfully nice !!