Thai guys on first romantic dates. I'm rusty

[Narakmak]

I am in circulation again.
Actively looking to date Thai guys for potential romantic connections.
I am careful to screen out obvious prostitutes (not easy to do in Pattaya).


So I go out with this guy who is very clear he has a job (I believe him) and is actively seeking a boyfriend (I believe that too), and yes I am taking him to a restaurant (there's an age difference after all) and that's great.
First, even though he speaks English he refuses to even try to roughly translate the specials board after I ask him three times. (It was a really good Thai restaurant so the specials were in Thai. I had confirmed he preferred Thai food to eat together, as did I.) Asking one time well OK, but asking three times I was telling him this matters to me which it does and nothing, does not care.
Then while waiting for the food (and eating) he plays with his smartphone like 10 times (not getting calls which I would more understand).
Of course no thank you for paying for dinner, I understand not to expect that in the Thai culture.
OK, so I'm figuring he just wants a free meal and whatever but he doesn't like me and there's no potential. That's OK.
Then later he starts stalking me online and by phone. I miss you, etc.
He misses what? There was nothing.
I'm more than venting.
I'm asking.
I understand the mobile behavior if you're married to someone and bored.
But first date? Is that normal?
BTW, I felt nothing for him. I went through the dinner date just to be polite as it was his big weekend night out. I made a real effort to try to find a connection of some kind just in case my first impression was wrong, but every effort came up with nothing.
OK, to be clear, I understand failed dates all too well, but what's with the stalking and I miss you garbage?

[francois]

I understand the mobile behavior if you're married to someone and bored.
But first date? Is that normal?
BTW, I felt nothing for him. I went through the dinner date just to be polite as it was his big weekend night out. I made a real effort to try to find a connection of some kind just in case my first impression was wrong, but every effort came up with nothing.
OK, to be clear, I understand failed dates all too well, but what's with the stalking and I miss you garbage?

Narakmak, sounds like you found yourself a loser. I can't answer your questions but the playing with a smart phone is a nasty habit indulged in by young and old, both Thai and Farang.

[Bobett]

Sounds like your date had no interest in you at all. I wold have told him,he was suposed to be on a date with me not his phone/ tablet etc. If he caried on playing with his phone I woud chek the bin and walk out. Its not as if you wanted him anyway. 8-|

Its a pet hate of mine if im with someone and there on their fucking phone.Not even talking just scrolling or whatever the fuck they do. Its Bad manners unless its picking up a call. I can understand thais doing this as most of them I know have fuck all manners anyway but my falang friends are just as bad. With them I tell them my thoughts on the subject and they desist and yes I do have a phone. It stays in my pocket unless I need to make a call.Then if Im with someone I ask them to excuse me wile I do it.

Sorry for this little rant but its something that realy pisses me off. anyone else have any thoughts on this.

[lego]

Narakmak, I think you might need to get better in reading subtle signals. If you ask a guy once to translate something for you and there's no reaction, simply let it go. Asking a second time if you genuinely think he didn't understand your question might still be okay, but asking the same question three times? No way! He clearly wasn't able or willing to translate it for you, just draw your conclusions from that and that's it. That's what I'd recommend anywhere, in a relaxed setting and when your life doesn't depend on getting that answer that is.

Being considerate ultimately isn't a one way street. Since you mentioned Thai culture, I think in Thailand it's quite acceptable to simply dodge a question, at least if you don't know the answer and don't want to admit that. If you just cannot be bothered to answer, now that's indeed rude, but so is demanding an answer by asking the same question three times in a row.

Ultimately, the same goes with playing with his mobile. Yes, it's quite common to check for messages and stuff like that frequently, but if he's playing with his phone pretty much all the time, he's either feeling shy in your presence (doesn't know what to talk to you, feeling uncomfortable speaking English, things like that), or not interested. Whenever that happens to me, I try to figure out which one it is, and that can obviously be tricky sometimes.

It has happened to me that when meeting a guy the first time he was very reserved and shy, only to write me later that he really likes me and would like to see me again. Apparently it was just so much easier for him to write that instead of making a move while we met. For this reason, I wouldn't rule out that your date really liked you and just didn't feel confident when meeting you in the flesh, but it might just as well be the case that he wasn't really interested.

[thaiguest]

Your case seems to be one of mis-matched expectations.

You took out a boy to a meal in expectation of a "potential romantic connection" . He would hopefully turn out to be a "non-obvious" prostitute. (Do you think non-obvious prostitues are better than "obvious" ones or what?)

The boy went with a farang and his own doppleganger phone to put food into his stomach and the falang paid for everything but kept mouthing english at him .

[Smiles]

Narakmak began by getting everything wrong from the get-go, and things went predictably downhill from there. Talk about setting one's self up for disaster.
The last thing in the entire world that a Thai guy wants to do with a brand new farang acquaintance is to go on a date to dinner ... ("just us two", how romantic).
Thais love to eat communally when possible, they eat with family and/or friends, they speak at dinner ~ and laugh ~ in Thai (or Lao, or Khymer) only. Narakmak put himself in the position of having to break through four of five layers of Thai comfortableness before even sitting down: continually prodding for feedback (in english) regarding the menu only made matters more edgy. The Thai guy retreated to where he was most comfortable given the situation ... his cell phone: probably hoping to get some of his Thai friends on the line ... the one's he'd like to really have there at the table to make things easier in the presence of this fussy and serious farang.

All wrong ... all went wrong. 'Sanuk' went missing.

If Narakmak had of just invited his new friend out for a few drinks, gotten pleasantly and gently loaded, grabbed a bottle of whiskey, and retreated to the pool table for some snooker (20 baht to the winner of each game), things might well have gone much better.

[bidreamer]

I had a bit similar situation with a thai guy in my home country. We met and decided to spend a Sunday together - beach, picnic... It was nice enough, but no serious interest for anything more. Later, I also started receiving messages how he likes to see me again, had really good time, likes me a lot and so on. So some time later we met again, same thing as first time. Third time was not planned, met by accident and then he was almost hostile - no smile nor hello, even tried to get his friend away from me when we were chatting. No big harm done, but I was just curious of did I somehow offend him unknowingly, or was it that he was looking for a rich guy to take care of him and realised it's not going to happen this way. But why become hostile? I certainly was not pursuing him.

Mobile phones - I hate that too, usually leave mine at home when going out for dinner. But younger guys everywhere in the world apparently see things differently. Many times I have seen friends going out and sitting together, but no communication! Everyone is busy on the phone! Maybe they are talking to each other on Line or Whatsapp?
With my bf it was strange - second time we were together, the last morning before I was leaving he was constantly on his phone, while I kind of hoped to enjoy the last few hours together. I did not say anything but did not hide that I was quite annoyed. Then, next time we spent together, it was totally different - phone away most of the time, never ignoring me. Maybe he picked up the signals and it was enough.? Long may it last!

[Narakmak]

Good feedback.
Food for thought.
Sorry I really don't want a prostitute and I can usually tell pretty well.
As in transactional cash for sex.
This guy wasn't a prostitute in the conventional sense.
As far as the "stalking" behavior I find it hard to believe he really was hot for me but indeed he is probably interested in almost ANY farang that is kind enough and doesn't smell too bad to improve his life, yes of course economically.
He made it clear he really wanted to go to dinner. What was I supposed to do, be a cheap jerk and deny what was his idea for a first date? I don't think so. I get the wisdom of meeting for coffee or drinks and screening. But before I met him, I think it would have been very rude to not agree with his idea.

[thaiguest]

Narakmak began by getting everything wrong from the get-go, and things went predictably downhill from there. Talk about setting one's self up for disaster.
The last thing in the entire world that a Thai guy wants to do with a brand new farang acquaintance is to go on a date to dinner ... ("just us two", how romantic).
Thais love to eat communally when possible, they eat with family and/or friends, they speak at dinner ~ and laugh ~ in Thai (or Lao, or Khymer) only. Narakmak put himself in the position of having to break through four of five layers of Thai comfortableness before even sitting down: continually prodding for feedback (in english) regarding the menu only made matters more edgy. The Thai guy retreated to where he was most comfortable given the situation ... his cell phone: probably hoping to get some of his Thai friends on the line ... the one's he'd like to really have there at the table to make things easier in the presence of this fussy and serious farang.

All wrong ... all went wrong. 'Sanuk' went missing.

If Narakmak had of just invited his new friend out for a few drinks, gotten pleasantly and gently loaded, grabbed a bottle of whiskey, and retreated to the pool table for some snooker (20 baht to the winner of each game), things might well have gone much better.

Exactly right.

I couldn't improve on this adjudication.

Narakmak please note.

[gaymandenmark]

Good feedback.
But before I met him, I think it would have been very rude to not agree with his idea.

Why?
No that would not have been rude, at least because you have never met this guy before.

[Narakmak]

Narakmak began by getting everything wrong from the get-go, and things went predictably downhill from there. Talk about setting one's self up for disaster.
The last thing in the entire world that a Thai guy wants to do with a brand new farang acquaintance is to go on a date to dinner ... ("just us two", how romantic).
Thais love to eat communally when possible, they eat with family and/or friends, they speak at dinner ~ and laugh ~ in Thai (or Lao, or Khymer) only. Narakmak put himself in the position of having to break through four of five layers of Thai comfortableness before even sitting down: continually prodding for feedback (in english) regarding the menu only made matters more edgy. The Thai guy retreated to where he was most comfortable given the situation ... his cell phone: probably hoping to get some of his Thai friends on the line ... the one's he'd like to really have there at the table to make things easier in the presence of this fussy and serious farang.

All wrong ... all went wrong. 'Sanuk' went missing.

If Narakmak had of just invited his new friend out for a few drinks, gotten pleasantly and gently loaded, grabbed a bottle of whiskey, and retreated to the pool table for some snooker (20 baht to the winner of each game), things might well have gone much better.

Exactly right.

I couldn't improve on this adjudication.

Narakmak please note.I hate to burst your bubble, but not all Thai men are the same.
This particular Thai man does not enjoy drinking at all.
No, I did not know that before I met him.
I think that's charming actually, but I don't like him otherwise.
I was willing to meet him at least half way, listening to what he wanted. That is something human about considering the other person. While I understand the thing very well about pushing things with Thais, I think it actually was a great "test" of his willingness to bother expending any energy at all to meet me half way (asking about the menu).
No, it was certainly not an intentional test, I am no saint, but I'm not that much of an A-hole either.
Yes westerners are different, he claims to want to be with a westerners in a long term relationship, and he's not willing to communicate about things. Forget about it! For me, it would be a total nightmare to live with someone like that. Now I'm curious, some of you guys can live with that? That seems crazy to me.
Yes I know what you're thinking, I'll probably never find a suitable Thai man with my attitude and you may be right. That's why I'm open to meeting Cambodians! (And others.)
I don't mind the hard nosed comments though. I can learn from them, consider what I do in future in light of that input, not that I'm buying all the advice verbatim.

[lego]

I agree with Narakmak, I don't think a dinner is necessarily bad for a first date, it works well with many Thais. I'd even say it's better than getting drunk with someone you don't know yet.

I've met quite a number of Thai guys for lunch or dinner first, and when that didn't go too well, I doubt any other activity would have been better. Always keeping in mind that I usually ask them for suggestions, so I wouldn't take someone to eat who doesn't mention that at all or who comes up with other ideas. Having a meal with someone, you get to know quite a lot about him in a short time and in a relaxed, noncommittal atmosphere, if you're observant.