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christianpfc
October 29th, 2013, 17:32
Are most Thai boys retards?

A provocative title, and I wonтАЩt get new friends with this post, but I mean it exactly as I wrote it. Anyway, itтАЩs a question and not a statement, so feel free to answer тАЬnoтАЭ and let me know why. I use тАЬretardтАЭ to collect all these тАЬWhat the fuck?!тАЭ moments I have when I try to meet Thai boys (too late, wrong place, phone battery empty, doesnтАЩt tell me something important he knew hours ago and many more, I lost count). More precisely тАЬAre most Thai boys I have contact with retards?тАЭ, and I would like to hear otherтАЩs stories too.

Just when you think it gets better (last month, one boy about 5 km away, efficient communication in English, acceptable delays but it seems now we are drifting apart, anyway having so-so sex тАУ but promising! - on two of six meetings is a poor yield; and another boy, efficient communication in Thai, acceptable delays, but one meeting failed тАУ there must have been miscommunication) there is a row of problem cases.

But first some cases from earlier this year that I vividly remember.

There was one boy I met in February this year. He was 1 hour 50 minutes late (I remember exactly because not long before I had another boy who was 1 hour 50 minutes late, but I donтАЩt remember details of that encounter). He stayed in On Nut, we met at MBK, so I thought skytrain would be the fastest way to get there, he took bus or van or whatever that caused part of the delay. Meeting point was Naai In Books in MBK, he went to Asiabooks in Siam Paragon. When he called me that he is in the bookshop now, and I couldnтАЩt see him, I gave up and thought this is a lost case and he is just playing with me. I had a last look at a book I had missed before (thatтАЩs why I choose a bookshop, I can spend one or two hours there), and when I left, he just arrived. It was a matter of 30 seconds and we would have missed. Only then I found out that he went to the wrong bookshop.

The largest delay I ever had was 6 hours. That was in January 2010. I gave up after 3 hours and continued my schedule as if nothing had happened, then after 6 hours he called тАЬI am here now. Where are you?тАЭ. One of these cases with poor pictures on gayromeo, he turned out not to be my type. I now pass profiles with poor pictures. About 4 out of 5 donтАЩt pass my requirements for a clear facepic. It canтАЩt be that difficult to post one, just one single picture that is in focus, not too dark, that shows your face without sunglasses (unless you are a retard, than this is a major challenge).

Two months ago, an acquaintance on Grindr, we then moved to Line and he wanted to come to my place (at least I thought so). Nearing the time we agreed upon, I ask where he is: тАЬI think we can meeting tomorrow? Rain now littleтАЭ. (I love Line. You have a written record, with times. So I know I am not imagining things.) When you have exchanged a few hundred messages and tried ten times to set up a date without success, this is probably a hint that there are evil forces in the universe that donтАЩt want us to meet.

I went to see a friend on Koh Si Chang over a weekend. I have met him about five times, every time everything was fine. He said he would go to Bangkok the following week for five days to attend some training course. We discussed long where we could meet in Bangkok, I suggested Asiatique as it is close to his accommodation in Bangkok (Rama 2 / Ratburana). On Wednesday (his first day in Bangkok), I write on Line asking where he is and when he would like to meet. The message was read, but no reply. I interpreted this correctly: something is wrong. So I call later in the afternoon, he picks up, says hello and then hands the phone to his mother (?) who tells me that he is not in Bangkok at the moment. I give up. I doubt I will get an explanation next time we meet, but I will carefully try to elucidate what went wrong.

Last week a boy on gayromeo, we exchange phone numbers. I am free on Wednesday afternoon (holiday, 23rd of October) and call him. Meet in half an hour (my suggestion) at BTS Chong Nonsi (his suggestion). I arrive and cannot get him on the phone. I call every five minutes for half an hour, then I leave. Some days later, message on gayromeo: he lost or broke his phone. I assume he didnтАЩt come to Chong Nonsi, the station is too big to meet there without specifying a place where exactly to meet.

Last weekend in Pattaya. I had written on gayromeo with a boy who has an interesting profile, our chat was promising. I wrote I would be free on Saturday early afternoon. (I wrote this twice, on Thursday and on Friday.) When I called him on Saturday around noon, he said he would be leaving Pattaya now to take bus back to his home province to continue university. So we missed. Going back to his home province to continue studying isnтАЩt a spontaneous decision, I assume. ItтАЩs getting rarer and rarer that I read a profile and look at the pictures and think тАЬThis one is different!тАЭ, only to be disappointed: different boy, same problems.

At the same time, I was online on gayromeo and an old acquaintance wrote to me (we didnтАЩt have contact for about two years). He wants to meet. I suggest Tuk Com (because I can spend an hour there without getting bored). He agrees and would meet me there in 15 to 20 minutes. 30 minutes later, I call him and he asks me to come to TonyтАЩs Fitness because he has many friends around Tuk Com and doesnтАЩt want to be seen there (I didnтАЩt ask why). I had mentioned Tuk Com and the Se-ed bookstore at least three times in written or spoken form. So I walk to TonyтАЩs Fitness (about 10 minutes). Did you think he is there, waiting for me? Really? No, it takes another three phone calls and 10 minutes waiting until he arrives on a motorbike taxi. He tells me to jump on and off we drive (my head the highest point, no helmet, my knees the outmost points) for about 30 minutes into the darkest part of the Eastern side of Sukhumvit (I didnтАЩt know that there is that much Thai and even Farang live!). The fare was 350 Baht (he paid, that must have included other trips as my return trip was only 120 Baht and 22 minutes). I must point out that I mentioned тАЬletтАЩs talk firstтАЭ when we chatted, hopping on a motorbike and driving half an hour to a place I donтАЩt know is not my style. He was very horny, I played along, it was so-so, there is potential.

An acquaintance from Camfrog from Hat Yai comes to Bangkok (we had a few times camsex тАУ IтАЩm not a fan of camsex, but better than wanking alone when I was in Europe тАУ but never met in real life). I call him Monday afternoon. He picks up, connection is poor, suddenly interruption. I call again, he tells me he is busy and hangs up (I get that from time to time, no goodbye, they just hang up before everything is said so I have to call again, or there is background noise and the connection slips after a few seconds). Then in the evening some calls I make donтАЩt get through, others with very poor connection or just background noise, I give up. There are evil forces in the universe that donтАЩt want us to meet. It was actually he who wrote to me on Skype that he would come to Bangkok, so I assume he wants to meet.

You could think the Thai mobile network is the problem, but I never had these problems when I called Farang friends.

The boy from the second paragraph, make that two meetings failed. I am getting better at detection when тАЬyesтАЭ means тАЬnoтАЭ. There are communication problems (in Thai), I think he will come to my place, but he will not. I donтАЩt understand everything he says, but I leave with the thought тАЬThat didnтАЩt sound enthusiastic, I would be very surprised if he actually came to my placeтАЭ. I could go to Sanam Luang where he works, and then to a short time hotel, but if I pay for taxi anyway, why do I always have to do the driving, and then pay for short time hotel? Next time I will meet him there and ask about his work conditions to see if there is a day and time when he can come to my place (he did once so far, and I went to see him two times). It works out like this: I go to Sanam Luang (150 Baht) and back 150 and pay for short time room 200, or I give him 500 which allows him to come to my place 150 and go back to his place 150 and leaves him 200. My expense is the same, but I can wait in the comfort of my home and spend two hours doing something useful instead of traveling through Bangkok. (Before someone shouts тАЬItтАЩs all about the money!тАЭ it is not, it is about who is traveling to meet for a sex date.)

I stopped counting, the list could go on for pages, it is more the standard then the exception.

Wait, I have another one! On my second visit to Thailand, I went with a Thai friend from my first holiday to ICK (at that time I didnтАЩt know where it is). He got drunk (at my expense) and then he disappeared. He was just gone and I was left out there alone, not knowing where I am, nobody speaking English! What a luck there are taxis! This is more a case of irresponsible behavior than being a retard.

And boys who change their phone numbers, why? I lost one German mobile phone number and one Thai mobile phone number because they expired, but only because I was not living in that country permanently. And empty battery? Can happen, but it never happened to me until last Saturday, where I was left for 15 minutes with a phone with empty battery, the first time since I started using mobile phones twelve years ago.

All the cases cited above were non-moneyboys, and I chose a central well known place (like MBK) to meet or let them choose a place to meet. I donтАЩt remember meeting a money boy from internet, I want to see them in real life first, so I go to bars or Saranrom.

ItтАЩs not only Thai boys. I wrote about Black Woman before, and now I can add another experience. She doesnтАЩt have a purse, she puts money loose in her handbag and every time she has to pay something she rummages through her bag to get the money. It takes minutes. Or does she do this on purpose hoping would get bored and pay for her? It doesnтАЩt work!

A counter example (the only one I have) is a Thai friend of mine who is a hi-so buisinesswoman. She is on time every time, no problems with phone calls or SMS (thatтАЩs probably how she got successful in business, simply by being on time and efficient communication). In this case, I am the one who is late (by Thai standards you wouldnтАЩt call five minutes being late, but by my standards, even if five minutes after a trip of two hours is just 4% off.)

I this just statistics, and all failures are accumulated in the first ten months of the year and I am in for a treat in the next two months to level everything out over the year? Or should I just accept that this life is one of mismatches and obstacles, and hope the next one will be better? (That was a joke, I donтАЩt believe in rebirth or afterlife, I think you are born, then you lead a shitty miserable life like mine where nothing matches, then you die and rot and the worms eat you.)

Or is it my negativity that attracts these cases? When I set up a date I wonder тАЬWhat will go wrong this time?тАЭ What am I going to do in that area at that time if the boy doesnтАЩt show up? If you think I have had everything that can go wrong go wrong you are wrong, there are surprises every time. Do I have a profound lack of understanding of Thai culture or is it just that way that you come late to a date, or donтАЩt go at all and donтАЩt bother to tell the person who is waiting for you that you wonтАЩt come and why you wonтАЩt come or why you are late? Or am I looking for friends, fuckbuddies and a boyfriend at the wrong places (boys who are lo-so because they are retard)? Is it just lack of communication (in English or in Thai) and I fail to ask the right question at the right time or tell the boy what I have in mind?

What are your experiences? Share your stories how things can go wrong beyond imagination, and give an indication how frequently this happens.

timmberty
October 29th, 2013, 17:49
christian do you ever wonder that these boys might something more intresting to do than to turn up for meetings a few days or even hours before they are meant to be meeting you ?
they dont answer the phone because they cant be bothered with explaining what went wrong. and whatever excuse you wouldnt believe anyway.
all these lost thai phones, how come ive never found one, or even know someone whos found one !!!
they are not creatures of habit like us in the west, they dont care if you are left high and dry ..
you should be getting used to it by now, they would probably consider you a retard for actually showing up.

cdnmatt
October 29th, 2013, 18:38
Quit hanging out in the slums with people who think 1000 baht is a lot of money, and maybe you'll meet people more to your liking.

ikarus
October 29th, 2013, 20:58
One of your problems may be that you are looking for advice in the wrong places and perhaps a bad Karma too. Think of it: on another message board you got two nasty answers from possibly the two nastiest characters on Thailand gay forums: lvdkeys and Bob. That is the kind of characters your posts attract. Do not hang out in shitty places:it may help...

bobsaigon2
October 29th, 2013, 21:22
Christian, perhaps you have a mis-perceived notion of reciprocity, or lack thereof. You expect them to place the same value on timeliness as you do. It canтАЩtтАЩ work that way in a third world country unless youтАЩre dealing with professionals who are used to honouring appointment times.

I assume you are focusing on these boys as sex partners. That automatically raises your level of interest to a degree which is unrealistic in these situations. To them, you may appear nothing more than just another farang and if it doesnтАЩt suit their schedule, needs, desires at a particular time, they see no reason to submit to a farangтАЩs demands or notions of what is тАЬdoneтАЭ and тАЬnot doneтАЭ.

Do they see you as a very generous customer (probably not) or do they see you as LTR material? Probably not. So why should they be as eager to meet you as you are to meet them? There are thousands of farang showing up in Thailand every year looking for sex. If youтАЩre not demonstrably special, I doubt you should expect special attention to be paid to your desires. No offense intended. Just offering a possible interpretation of their failure to meet your expectations.

gregvc
October 29th, 2013, 22:07
agree with Matt. There are over 20 saunas in Bangkok, mostly full of non farangs. Treat those guys well as they are businessmen, students, etc. Over time you may become a regular and attract more guys.

egel
October 29th, 2013, 22:36
Same same. Its probably not just Thai boys, its the Thai culture not to bother with time keeping.

I had a boy who came to my room in Pattaya from time to time, for an hours nooky. I rang him one day and he said he was up country (somewhere in Issaan) and would be back tomorrow.

He called at 04.30 when the bus arrved back in Pattaya! You think I answered the phone? !

If you dont want these problems I suggest you stick with Saunas, Bars and Gogo boys.

bao-bao
October 29th, 2013, 22:50
In one of my early posts here on SGT I made an off-hand observation that drew what I suppose was intended to be a humorously/hurtful comment by a board troll, and that was "You have a lot to learn about Thailand". It pissed me off at the moment, but after a bit more thought I realized it was not only true, but that the troll had unwittingly given me a gift that has paid off repeatedly since. I've learned a vast amount there since then, mostly from communicating (with an emphasis on listening while taking in/processing cultural nuances) of people who were - with apologies for using a hackneyed phrase - "same same, but different." I think perhaps that's what you meant to say as opposed to the unnecessarily rude and offensive label "retarded".

My guess, based only on this one 2,300+ word heavenward wail, is that you expect too much. This isn't a job interview they're showing up to, it's a hook-up. There's your timetable and there is Thai time (or Pinoy time, or Mexican time, or Hawaiian time, etc. etc.). You're entirely within your weedles to hold your bar of expectations as high as you can stand on your toes, but - and I don't mean this to sound condescending, so let me apply it to myself: the axis of the universe does not revolve around me.

You're not as likely to find the quality items at a rummage/boot sale, and probably not for free, but there are some gems to be had. You might consider adjusting your expectations and style a bit before giving up. Think about some of these guys you're meeting being dropped into your local culture back home and consider how challenged they'd be.

My suspicion is that you're a decent person who's having more of a problem with the "mai pen rai" attitude there than anything else - even your personal quirk of thriftiness - and I sincerely wish you luck on your quests. I enjoy reading your posts more often than not, so hope you keep sharing here.

Mancs
October 30th, 2013, 00:33
It happens to me too, but I don't think they are retards. One money boy stood me up 3 times in 2 days! He answers the phone about 3 hours after our first meeting time and said he had fallen asleep. Sensible man:sleep when you can. He said he would be round in 30 minutes. Did he arrive? No! He fell asleep again. And they tell us what they think we want to hear. That's sensible too:it keeps everyone sabai, sabai with a dash of jai yen. And when it rains they don't like travelling so they are late. Quite right. Do we like getting wet? And they have a youthful, flexible attitude to time. Not a rigid European/American view of it. As for places to meet I agree they need careful thought. I once suggested by the fountain outside Central Plaza in Udon Thani. Naturally the place has two water features outside, so with his lateness, that was a no go.

Smiles
October 30th, 2013, 09:07
" ... What are your experiences? Share your stories how things can go wrong beyond imagination, and give an indication how frequently this happens ... "
I don't see the point really, of replying to you ... (although here's the exception). I really don't know why you are even in Thailand (looking-for-sex), for as you say above, " ... I stopped counting, the list could go on for pages, it is more the standard then the exception ... ".
Given a different mindset, you could easily get a cosmic smile from your never-ending culture shockings, but instead you ponderously choose to venture into White Man's Burden territory and start a thread with a subject line wondering whether an entire subset of the Thai population is retarded.

For the minority of guys here with very happy and deep and interesting and long term relationships with Thai guys one can only think that such a future could never in a thousand years happen to you.
And the short answer to your question is a very loud 'no'. But there won't be any funny/ha ha/cutesie-pie listings of Thai behaviour on the 'retard' side from this dude.
_________________________________________________

PS ... Christian, you've now posted this same topic on 3 message boards. But you missed Ting Tong: a retarded moment perhaps?
Whaooo Nelly ... make that 4. Just looked in on Baht Stop. (We all have some retarded moments, apparently)

October 30th, 2013, 09:26
Thai boys are no different to your run of the mill f*ckwit in any country in the world I wonder how many of the people in my office ever manage to get themselves out of bed in the morning their just so hopeless people stand at the beginning of escalators or worse at the end dithering about what they are going to do and get quiet offended when I say loudly Do Hurry Up. Most people are complete idiots you only have to read this Bored to realise that hullo a747.

adman5000
October 30th, 2013, 10:58
I think you have gotten some accurate input.

Your sense of urgency is not their sense of urgency
They are not university educated professionals
Thai sense of time is different than Western (Mai Pen Rai)
Why should they really give a shit? You are not a customer, they don't know you, you are not special to them, you are not taking care of them or their family you are not very high on the respect scale (probably don't even register).

My experiences have been different than yours BECAUSE my approach is totally different.
When I off someone, I am the customer and certain standards and expectations then automatically apply. I probably know their boss quite well, they know I know the boss quite well because he has told them, it is likely I know them quite well and have helped them in the past in various ways, if they know me they respect me. They KNOW I will take better than average care of them.
When I am meeting a Thai friend - they know me, they will call and let me know they are delayed etc
When I had a quasi BF, he was excellent on letting me know his status, where he was, when he would arrive, etc and without fail because I took care of him and his family. I was important to him. He acted accordingly.


So if you want to be more highly valued you need to give them a reason to do so. Get a good book on Thai culture and ask yourself what would make them respect and want to please you.

christianpfc
October 30th, 2013, 13:47
My apologies if I offended anyone.

I have mood swings. Yesterday I wondered why so much goes wrong, had a dull day, then at night I had a chat with boys in my area that cheered me up, and later picked up the boy from paragraph (doesn't matter) at Sanam Luang and we had a great time back at my place. Now I am fine, and this morning I wondered if I should have opened this topic yesterday. But all cases are real.

For that particular boy, the following seems to be the simplest solution: go to Khao San in the evening for a stroll and dinner, have a stroll around Saranrom (would have loved to take two boys - on differnent days - to a short time hotel, but had a date already), then pick up my friend at 10 or 11 when he finishes work and go back to my place. I tried to get him to come to my place by taxi after work (out of three attempts, it worked once).

We met five times, I asked him ten times where and what and how long he works, got eleven different answers. My intention was to plan further meetings according to his work schedule.

(And for those who think I am too cheap: the first time we meet in Babylon Sauna, I didn't give him money. All following meetings 500 Baht "for taxi when you come to visit me next time" just to smooth things up. If 500 Baht makes a difference between "see you tonight" and "I'm too tired, it's too late, it's raining, I'm hungry, too far, too dark, too sunny, too cold, too hot, too windy...the list can go on" I will happily give him 500 each time we meet.)


It happens to me too, but I don't think they are retards. One money boy stood me up 3 times in 2 days! He answers the phone about 3 hours after our first meeting time and said he had fallen asleep. Sensible man:sleep when you can. He said he would be round in 30 minutes. Did he arrive? No! He fell asleep again.

Good to know I'm not the only one who experiences these problems.

gaymandenmark
October 30th, 2013, 14:05
I have had many different experiences, but no they are not retarted.

There is also all this "lose face" in this culture, so sometimes they promise you something they can not fulfil.
Maybe they don't want to tell you directly in your face, that they don't give a shit about you.
I still remember this writing from you: "what could be more important than to go to the room with me and get laid."
Maybe you should look in the mirror and change your own attitude.
You could also accept that misunderstandings happens, and don't think that a boy is a retard, because he i waiting in the wrong bookshop.

I had some years a special boyfriend, everytime I landed in the airport, he was there on time, standing and waiting at me, even when the flight was several hours late. Retarded?, nah I don't think so.

christianpfc
October 30th, 2013, 16:29
Thanks for all replies (even Timmberty made a positive contribution). It will take some time to process all the information on all forums. It's like a picture puzzle. I don't see the facts until someone points them out, then it is obvious.


I assume you are focusing on these boys as sex partners. That automatically raises your level of interest to a degree which is unrealistic in these situations.

Yes. Sex on first date is on my list, but often I want to get a better impression first (if pictures on gayromeo or grindr are not clear enough), or even place and time do not allow for more (e.g. the boy who lost his phone when I waited for him at Chong Nonsi).


Do they see you as a very generous customer (probably not) or do they see you as LTR material?
This thread is not about moneyboys or LTR.


There are thousands of farang showing up in Thailand every year looking for sex. If youтАЩre not demonstrably special, I doubt you should expect special attention to be paid to your desires. No offense intended. Just offering a possible interpretation of their failure to meet your expectations.
There is one thing that makes me special: I can read and write Thai. There are Thai boys who like Farang, but who can't speak English. They must have a hard time! I had one of them (unfortunately not so much my type). He came to my place by taxi (without asking for taxi money), on time as far as I remember.

bobsaigon2
October 30th, 2013, 19:33
bobsaigon2 wrote:
Do they see you as a very generous customer (probably not) or do they see you as LTR material?

Christian wrote: This thread is not about moneyboys or LTR.

Response: Your lack of success is precisely because the boys you fancy do not see you as a generous customer or LTR material or anything else that appeals to them. Thai fluency may help you to communicate, but the question is, what are you communicating (both linguistically and socially)? Why so many disappointments even though you speak their language?

rincondog
October 30th, 2013, 22:26
ARE ALL GERMANS anal retentive and OCD?
Christian, there are big cultural differences between Germans and Thais, at least 180 degree of differences. The sooner you accept that and consider it all an experience the more you will enjoy yourself.

elephantspike
October 31st, 2013, 00:23
Little known racial stereotypes:

[youtube:24bwnxke]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmmWc99YPdw[/youtube:24bwnxke]

colmx
October 31st, 2013, 02:23
Christian:
Do you know that using the term retard is now considered to be very politically incorrect?

Just curious if your use of this pejorative word was meant - or if it was something that was lost in translation given you are not a native English speaker?

Even if you had asked "Are most Thai boys retarded?" it would have been a more politically acceptable question (although only slightly)

gumblebee
October 31st, 2013, 03:07
I also noticed that (some) Thai boys really like to make you wait. Might there be an aspect of power games to this? I remember reading on one of the boards that in Thai society there are no equals, someone is always superior to the other (Thai language does indeed reflect this to some extent). I'm curious what the opinion of other posters is on this aspect?

Jellybean
October 31st, 2013, 07:58
Blimey ChristianPFC, youтАЩve certainly kicked up a horrid stink this time. Whatever possessed you to use such an offensive and inappropriate word as тАЬretardтАЭ? When, as far as I can see, you are essentially talking about the question of punctuality, combined with reliability with a mixture of a breakdown in communication, through misunderstandings, or thoughtlessness thrown in for good measure.

A term I heard banded about very soon after I moved out to Thailand was тАЬThai timeтАЭ when I complained about the regular habit of people not turning up on time. Simply accepting that the type of boys youтАЩve been contacting donтАЩt place too high a store on punctuality, either through cultural or educational differences, will, IтАЩm sure, lead to less stressful situations and a more enjoyable experience.

Yes, there have been situations when the тАШboysтАЩ IтАЩve arranged to meet have been late, not turned up or given lame excuses afterwards. But IтАЩve learned just to accept that this sometimes happens and not to let it bother me. And, to add a positive note, there have been even more situations where the тАШboysтАЩ turn up on time or even earlier than expected!

I suggest you take a chill pill or consider a short holiday back home just to regain a sense of perspective again.

PeterUK
October 31st, 2013, 11:09
Calling people who are habitually late 'retards' actually has a witty side to it in view of the double meaning of the word, but nothing in Christian's post indicates that he had anything but an offensive intention in mind.

Patanawet
October 31st, 2013, 13:21
>>>>>> indicates that he had anything but an offensive intention in mind.
I'm torn between troll and flamer with most of the threads that he floods all boards with.
Whichever ----- he got the response he wanted on all 3 boards.

ikarus
October 31st, 2013, 14:45
Let me repeat: OP is looking for advice in the wrong places. His problem is that he sees a huge discrepancy between his internal self-esteem and the way he is treated by Thai boys. Welcome to the "real world". It is not just Thai boys. The thing s that in "real world" people appreciate simple things: money, friendship, good food or good conversation or good sex...How much one is skillfull in chemistry or mathematics is of no particular interest to an ordinary person. The society in general do appreciate the intellectual efforts of "egg heads" not so much in terms of money but rather providing reasonable conditions for intellectual activity to those relatively few who are capable to do that (cause the scientific and technological progress determines the overall progress of mankind).
My advice to OP: do not ruin your life and return (if you still can) to your corner of "ivory tower". And if you like Thailand or Thai boys, there are always vacations...
You are on a very dangerous path of self-destruction and no Gaybutton can help you with that.

christianpfc
October 31st, 2013, 14:46
bobsaigon2 wrote:
Do they see you as a very generous customer (probably not) or do they see you as LTR material?

Christian wrote: This thread is not about moneyboys or LTR.

Response: Your lack of success is precisely because the boys you fancy do not see you as a generous customer or LTR material or anything else that appeals to them. Thai fluency may help you to communicate, but the question is, what are you communicating (both linguistically and socially)? Why so many disappointments even though you speak their language?
I am not a customer. The cases in the original post, I offer to pay for transport, food, drink, entertainment, but not for sex. I am talking about hook up for fun, or often not even that, just meet to get acquainted to see if more is possible.

Regarding LTR, that's something to think about. Many profiles on Gayromeo or Grindr say that they are looking for a boyfriend, often even specifying that they are not looking for one-night-stands, whereas I am just looking for a casual sexual encounter, so there is a mismatch. But I won't try to pass myself as potential boyfriend to get into a boy's pants, if I just want a casual sexual encounter. But even boys who are looking for a boyfriend sometimes must have an itch that wants to be scratched.

Actually I am not looking for one-night-stands either, I am looking for a fuck buddy, someone you meet about once per week for fun with no further commitments. There is some thrill in a new conquest, but the effort is tremendous (see the original post), so I would like repeats without that effort.


Christian:
Do you know that using the term retard is now considered to be very politically incorrect?
I did not know that it's not PC. It's one of my favorite words of the English language, we don't have anything close in German. How powerful it is, you can see on the responses to this topic.

Anyway, I am not a fan of political correctness. I like to call a spade a spade. If you have an ethnic minority in your country that causes trouble, the trouble doesn't get away if you call them by another name. A man who has only one leg cannot walk, no matter if you call him cripple, handicapped, disabled or challenged.


Calling people who are habitually late 'retards' actually has a witty side to it in view of the double meaning of the word, but nothing in Christian's post indicates that he had anything but an offensive intention in mind.
I didn't think of that. Brilliant!

But I meant "mentally retarded". People who live in Bangkok and are late because there is a traffic jam. As if that is the first traffic jam in their life! For who traveling from A to B and changing method of transport in between is a major intellectual challenge. (But then, you could apply this to me as well: after four years of traveling to Thailand and a total of one year of living in Thailand I still haven't realized that some things are very different from Europe.)


I also noticed that (some) Thai boys really like to make you wait. Might there be an aspect of power games to this?
I wondered exactly the same. I write to a boy "Can we meet at A?". When I arrive, I call the boy "I am at A, where are you now?". Five minutes later, he calls me "I am at B, can you come here". It happened a few times to me.

The boy on Saturday in Pattaya, we wrote on gr or talked on the phone three times that we meet in Se-ed bookstore in Tuk-Com, then he calls me if I can come to Tony's fitness, and is't even there yet!

pong
October 31st, 2013, 15:25
Do you know that using the term retard is now considered to be very politically incorrect? I did not know that it's not PC. It's one of my favorite words of the English language, we don't have anything close in German. How powerful it is, you can see on the responses to this topic.!
Did not read-habe nicht da alles gelesen- what has been poured on you, but I got-reading it at another board from the start, that you have fallen in the trap of (in this case also PC-laden) mistranslation. Ausserdem/beside that, I think I am also more familiair with both languages, both German and English, and how Germans sometimes exclaim things-and English not.
In German one would just say ''dumm''. Favorite topic on expats fora for Pattayans etc.
For all the english speakers: thats not simply translated as dumb, nor stupid. It even has some adorable touch to it.

scottish-guy
October 31st, 2013, 15:33
"Politically correct" ???

WTF???

On a board where one of the major topics of debate is how much/little to pay the next male prostitute you hire, and where Christian regales us with tales of bizarre sexual encounters with rent boys, middle-aged transvestites, and an African woman (to name but three)???

Don't get me wrong - I love the depravity - but surely you're having a laugh, Christian?

=))

thaiguest
October 31st, 2013, 16:59
The use of the word 'retards' in the question is perhaps rather more telling of original poster than of the Thais.
However I would have to add that Thais are 'different' from any other race I've ever encountered. There's a frivolity and childlike quality about them that defies age and yet there's a the ever-present possibility of an explosive anger ready to emerge from just below the surface-often without any serious cause. Witness the on the spot murder of the American CAT employee in Bangkok some months ago by a taxi driver or the recent murder of 2 hapless cambodian workers near Pratunak for the crime of 'bumping' into a Thai and not apologising. There seems to be no concept of consequences in their make-up.
Their concept of time is also very different; "see you at Tuk Com at 2 pm" means the Thai friend will (at best) leave his/her house at 2 pm irrespective of distance-in my experience.
I've read the original post and except for the 'retard' bit it reads true for me at least, especially given that the poster has taken the time and made the effort to write and read Thai. It's simply not possible to begin to understand the culture of any country without learning the language but even having done that the Thais make for a unique challange.

Mancs
October 31st, 2013, 18:16
The power game/face/hierarchy one is interesting. I once took a massage man from bkk for a massage in Chiang Mai. The two masseurs available were kneeling in front of us, waiting for us to decide what we wanted. At that moment my friend gets out his new Samsung smart phone (which I had foolishly bought) to make a call, thus showing off his new phone and keeping the masseurs waiting. I couldn't do that but I think my friend found it very normal to use the opportunity to show off his new device.

francois
October 31st, 2013, 22:07
Calling people who are habitually late 'retards' actually has a witty side to it in view of the double meaning of the word, but nothing in Christian's post indicates that he had anything but an offensive intention in mind.


Good point Peter; Christian could have used tards even more politically incorrect but it does allude to tardy.

francois
October 31st, 2013, 22:12
Anyway, I am not a fan of political correctness. I like to call a spade a spade.

Christian, just be very careful where and when you use that expression!

Smiles
November 1st, 2013, 02:33
Fair warning: this posted on Gaybutton as well. If Christian can spew over 4 boards, I think spewing over 2 is hardly a crime. Also, I am lazy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

And from the Cynical Side: I think Mr Christian may well have gotten what he sought with his original post, and the low grade atomic bomb device of his employment of the word "retard".
I'm surprised he missed out Ting Tong and ThaiVisa, both of which would have undoubtedly spawned mostly the same general gnashing-of-teeth (if not more so)

The grand tally stands now at:

On Sawatdee ~ 27 replies over 2 pages (using my settings) with 1118 Views. Outrage quotient: 7 out of 10 (1 being in sympathy of Christian's premise and praise for his 'honesty' . . . 10 being total horror and "let's kill the racist bastard" but with a painless injection)
On GayButton ~ 22 replies over 3 pages with 524 Views. Outrage quotient: 8.5 out of 10 (even with Mr Gaybutton's attempts at smoothing troubled waters).
On Baht Stop ~ 15 replies on 1 page with 248 Views (this is quite high for Baht Stop, and 'predictable' need not be referred to as it's a given). Outrage quotient: 4 out of 10.
On Gay Thailand ~ 9 replies on 1 page with 342 Views (ditto) Outrage quotient: 9 out of 10. (The thrashing and angst of the GT Political Correctness police increases Pattaya's already-high general decibel level).
________________________________________________
Total ~ 73 replies over 7 pages with 2232 Views.
________________________________________________

Christian ... you done well!

elephantspike
November 1st, 2013, 03:02
I'm not crazy about the term "political correctness" because it implies that some authority can dictate what it is acceptable to believe and that can very easily be turned on its head as the "authorities" change.

That said, I think if anyone tries to lump all members of a certain group into some narrow stereotype their ideas should be opposed with reasoned debate and perhaps the offending person shunned socially. I just think "socially unacceptable" is a more accurate and palatable term for this kind of bigotry than "Politically Incorrect".

christianpfc
November 1st, 2013, 13:57
Fair warning: this posted on Gaybutton as well. If Christian can spew over 4 boards, I think spewing over 2 is hardly a crime. Also, I am lazy.
I call it "making my thoughts accessible to a wider audience" - there are people who read and post only on one board, I don't want them to miss my precious thoughts.

I didn't post on gaytingtong, I think jaafar's demise was the death knell for that board. I didn't post on baht-stop because I don't read it regularly, but I am glad my op was copied, as there were some interesting answers on that board. And the gay section of Thaivisa looked pretty slow when I checked some months ago, so I didn't post there.

November 1st, 2013, 14:21
Anyway, I am not a fan of political correctness. I like to call a spade a spade. Right on christian language doesnt shape perceptions so you wont mind if I call you a poo pushing pillow biting faggot pervert will you? At least you know where I stand calling a spade a spade and all that.

giggsy
November 1st, 2013, 21:47
This is a video I took of Christian (real name Jurgen) when he visited me in London 2 years ago. It might explain his use of the English language.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2e0_1226024885

loke
November 4th, 2013, 18:41
I think the main problem here is not that Thais are retards , I think Christian know deep inside they are not , but the non-commercial scene.

Because Christian is living and working as an expat in Bangkok, unlike most of us , if he choose a moneyboy there will be no problems except the price you pay for sex/relationship.

For the non commercial scene he needs to work on something else, he needs to understand humans and the Thai culture, their behaviour and how to communicate . And the Thais must like him for any activities. And that can be hard to achieve for any gwm living in Thailand.