shit day in pattaya

[a447]

This afternoon I went to Apple Massage, opposite the Bordeaux Restaurant behind Tucom. After I'd left and walked about 30 metres down the road, I realised I had left my watch behind. I went straight back and asked the guy who'd massaged me, Lim or Lin, to go upstairs and get it for me. He came down with a "Sorry, no hab." I spoke to the mama-san and we went upstairs to look for it but it was nowhere to be found. It had to be either in the shower or in the room - the only 2 places I went in to. After a cursory search - I looked, too - she said "Sorry. Can not find," and walked back downstairs. It appears that Lim must have seen it and stuck it in his manbag. It had to be there somewhere on the premises and would have been easy to find.

At first I thought I'd just put it down to experience but then thought, Fuck it! I've been robbed! Why should I just let them get away with it?

I went to Walking Street looking for the tourist police but they weren't there. The police box on the corner was also deserted. On the way back to my hotel I ran into a policeman and asked him where the tourist police were. I then trudged half an hour up the hill before I finally found them. But they were useless. The Thai guy said I'd have to get the police involved and it would be a criminal case. I didn't want any hassles - just wanted my watch back, no questions asked.

So I gave up on them and walked back to Apple. They were all sitting outside. They pretended not to recognise me. I asked the mama-san if they had found my watch and one of the massage boys said "Sorry, no speak English."
When I offered a reward of 10,000 baht, suddenly their memory came back. I told the mama-san I would come back tomorrow and would pay her the money if she had found my watch, but of course Lim would probably have pawned it by now. If he has, in fact, disposed of it I'm sure mama-san would be most upset at missing out on an easy 10,000 baht reward! That'll teach the little shit. :sign5:

The watch itself doesn't really matter - I'm willing to put it down to experience and move on. But I feel violated. I've never had anything stolen from me in my life. It was in some way my own fault. I should not have forgotten it. Lim grabbed it as soon as he realised I'd left without it. I normally wear a cheapie to Thailand but didn't realise I'd forgotten to change watches until I'd gotten onto the plane.

Oh well, no big deal. Life's too short to worry about such things. But it'll be interesting to see what happens when I go back tomorrow and wave my money in mama-san's face. . haha

But just a warning about Apple massage. AYOR.

[scottish-guy]

That's pretty depressing a447.

Like you I've always found honesty in bars/shops - to the extent of chasing after you in the street to give change back or return a phone you've left etc.

I fear what we are seeing now is not just a "bad apple" but, with business going down year on year (and I defy anybody to credibly say that isn't the case), the boys and management becoming more desperate. If they can't get your money honestly, some are becoming more willing to take other routes.

:crybaby:

[bucknaway]

That sucks! I know how you feel.
I hope you get your watch back.

[firecat69]

Sorry A447. I can sympathize . The only time I have ever had anything stolen was a boy who replaced my I phone with a cheap Chinese copy.

Looked the same until you picked it up and by then he was long gone . A smart thief he definitely was.

Went to MBK the same day and bought another won. Just figured that every boy I saw on the trip cost me about a 1000 baht more. Still a bargain. HeHe

[timmberty]

i do hope you didnt get back to your hotel and find the watch on the bedside table.

[psd1315]

I visited a massage place in June the Narcissus Massage next to Boyz town. IтАЩm usually aware of the scams the boys pull, but this hot afternoon I was sleepy and wanted a nice massage.
The boy showed me my massage room gave me a towel, I hung shorts and folded my shirt, the boy reappeared 5 minutes later and said its to time to shower, he politely coaxed me into the shower, after I was wet, he said, "I be back, I be back" He came back helped me dry off, gave me a nice massage. I paid and tipped him the 500baht at the front desk.

Next I went to eat, when I was paying for my food at the restaurant I thought oh, I need my hidden reserve out of my wallet, the 3,000 baht I had tucked into my wallet before I left my hotel. Dammm him, I was robbed. DonтАЩt leave your pants or shorts alone in the room, when the boy takes you to shower.

:crybaby:

[lukylok]

I never had - yet - anything stolen. And I forgot my watch more than once. But then it is a very nice swatch, very thin, which attires me many compliments, and is worth the enormous sum of 75 тВм, or roughly 3.000 bahts. I wouldn't dream to take one of my good watches on travel, being in Thailand or anywhere else.

[cdnmatt]

Sorry to hear it. If it makes you feel any better, I was recently relieved of a two story house full of furniture. Couple nice TVs, couple fridges, two kitchens full of stuff, tables, chairs, sofa, an old desktop computer, air conditioner, and even my clothes. All I ended up with was one towel, and the dog's food dishes.

My own fault though. I knew full well I should of inspected the house before giving Kim his "fuck off payment" of 30,000, but at that split second I changed my mind and handed him the money, just to get him out of my hair.

[krobbie]

Sorry to hear it. If it makes you feel any better, I was recently relieved of a two story house full of furniture. Couple nice TVs, couple fridges, two kitchens full of stuff, tables, chairs, sofa, an old desktop computer, air conditioner, and even my clothes. All I ended up with was one towel, and the dog's food dishes.

My own fault though. I knew full well I should of inspected the house before giving Kim his "fuck off payment" of 30,000, but at that split second I changed my mind and handed him the money, just to get him out of my hair.
Jeepers Matt you can't half pick 'em.

I mean I've been in a lesser situation about 6 years ago when I was green as grass to Thai tricks. They'd have to rip it out of my cold dead claw these days.

Hope you are ok.

Krobbie

[christianpfc]

What brand of watch is it and what is its value? How would a massage boy recognize a valuable watch and be able to distinguish it from a cheap copy?

Do you remember where you put your watch? I just wonder because in a few cases I put stuff somewhere, then had a Thai friend in my room, couldn't find it after he left, but sometime later I found it.

There is lack of security in massage parlors. I leave my trousers with phone and wallet in the room, unlocked. Then I go to shower, most of the time alone. My boy or other stuff could use this time to go through my possessions. I am aware of this situation, but have no idea what I can do. When I leave, I check my phone and have a look in my wallet (when I pay for massage and tip), but I would not notice if a few notes were taken.

[ikarus]

If you left your watches in massage parlour (and not somewhere else), it can hardly be qualified as a theft. I would put in the category "temptation too high to resist".
As a side comment, it looks like sudden increase in available guys in Pattaya (including in go go bars) which cannot be accidental. I attribute it to deteriorating economic situation in rural Thailand (probably as a combination of seasonal floods with recent cuts in agricultural subsidies) but this comes with a price of certain degree of desperation . Just be careful with your possessions...

[scottish-guy]

Hmmmmmmmm - I'm sorry Ikarus but in my opinion it IS theft!

I was going to say "legally and morally it is theft" then I remembered poor old a447 was getting serviced by a prostitute in a massage shop, so I thought it maybe "legally and morally" wasn't a stong point!! :sign5:

[Nirish guy]

!? He was not ! He was just getting a very vigorous treatment from his keen physical therapist - see, this is exactly how salacious rumours get started about what people hear about what goes on in sexy massage shops in Thailand - personally I only ever go in for sports massages !! Lol

Ha I should add that to the "things people never do in Thailand thread perhaps :-)

[Mancs]

It is horrible when people try to rob you. And I hate that urge in me to be extra careful, when most of the time you can leave your stuff and go for a walk, like Thai people do with their motorbike helmets. As for desperation, we have all seen how the rainy season can reduce people's income. I'm in Patong Beach and today I saw loads of massage people in Paradise. The sun was out but I didn't see many customers. I'm a customer but some of my cash goes to gay romeo meets now rather than massage shops.

[a447]

Scottish-guy, you are wrong, sorry to say. I was a bit stiff in places and needed a therapeutic massage!

Ikarus, you have missed your calling I think. You'd make a great defence lawyer but a lousy prosecutor. :sign5: It was up to the finder to resist temptation. He decided not to (his choice) and, hence, his act falls squarely into the category of theft. Without putting too finer point on it, the question he'd have to answer in a court of law is: What was your intent when you saw the watch and decided to hide it from the rightful owner? His only possible answer would be that he'd decided not to give it back. That is theft. As you said:"Just be careful with your possessions..." I wasn't. I've said I was partially at fault and, given the reality of life for some people here I can completely understand the inability to resist temptation. If he's able to sell it and get a good price for it, well good luck to him. He needs the money more than any of us do. It's just that, as I said, I felt somehow personally violated, that's all.

Christian, the make and value of the watch are neither here nor there; I couldn't really care less and am not going to waste time worrying about the monetary value. Afterall, it's only a possession, which I can replace. As for the 'How would a massage boy recognize a valuable watch and be able to distinguish it from a cheap copy?" comment, one look would tell anyone it was not bought at the Patpong market. The weight of it, along with the leather strap and complicated clasp mechanism would be dead giveaways. I can't believe that you think the copy watches are anything like the real thing. Next time, take a closer look.

[firecat69]

Scottish-guy, you are wrong, sorry to say. I was a bit stiff in places and needed a therapeutic massage!



Christian, the make and value of the watch are neither here nor there; I couldn't really care less and am not going to waste time worrying about the monetary value. Afterall, it's only a possession, which I can replace. As for the 'How would a massage boy recognize a valuable watch and be able to distinguish it from a cheap copy?" comment, one look would tell anyone it was not bought at the Patpong market. The weight of it, along with the leather strap and complicated clasp mechanism would be dead giveaways. I can't believe that you think the copy watches are anything like the real thing. Next time, take a closer look.

Sorry to disagree with you A447. I have gotten patpong watch sellers to bring out the good stuff of which I have quite a few. They have been good enough too fool some jewelers in the USA who were astonished when I told them they were fakes.

Now for the most part that is not the junk you see on the counter which you can buy for 300 baht but stuff that can be 1400-1800 baht and is hidden in back rooms and sometimes in a special chest. I have bought a lot of good copies as presents etc. The weight is the same as the original and 90% of them are keeping perfect time after 2 years or more. I have some that are 10 years old that keep perfect time.

I have been chased down in Patek stores and Rolex stores by sales personnel who saw what was on my wrist and came running.

[Manforallseasons]

I live in Pattaya and have had two instances of thievery after taking someone off. I've never been afraid, am very aware Thais for the most part are cowards and will not fight one on one but 3 or more on 1 is thier style.
I was not about to shrug off these two encounters, lucky for me in the wee hours of the morning about 6 months apart I saw the thieves walking alone in very quiet streets, I approached each from behind and taking full advantage of surprise approached each from behind aiming at their face beat the shit out of each of them, revenge is sweet!
For the sake of clarity both were straight manly guys.

[scottish-guy]

My Hero

:love4: :love4: :love4:

[timmberty]

attacking someone from behind, cowardly, but thats how some people like their heros.

[Manforallseasons]

attacking someone from behind, cowardly, but thats how some people like their heros.


Do people actually respond to your posts? :dontknow:

[timmberty]

you did

[bidreamer]

Never had anything stolen in Thailand (but had my wallet stolen last year in Barcelona). But interestingly, when we dropped in a gogo bar in Pattaya wjth my bf and had a couple of drinks with the mamasan and a couple of boys he knows, my bf insisted that i check my money and pockets when we were leaving. According to him it is not unusual for the boys to try to polish off the customers while snuggling close. Even though he knew them, he did not trust them one bit!

[bidreamer]

Sad to hear about the ending of cdnmatt's love story, I took once to go through these posts over the years and it was an eye opening and sincere account of something nice going sour. Care to post the final chapter, to kind of close the story?

[christianpfc]

It is horrible when people try to rob you.
Robbing involves violence, the case the op describes is just theft. As far as I can judge not even that (no proof), the op has just lost or misplaced his watch.

Why would a massage boy steal a watch whose value he does not know, and the theft can be traced back to him? Go through all the trouble and complaints when the theft is noticed? It doesn't make any sense. But then, this is Thailand.


I can't believe that you think the copy watches are anything like the real thing. Next time, take a closer look.
For me, a watch is merely a device to tell the time. Nothing more. I want a watch that is cheap, small, light and inconspicuous. I always wondered who buys all the watches that are advertised in magazines, now I know. I could not distinguish a fake from the real one.

Someone reported on one of these forums that he buys fake watches, takes them back to the USA and leaves them on the table when he is showering after meeting moneyboys in the US. Sometimes the boy steals the watch, which comes that person much cheaper than paying the going rate.

Counter example: Two weeks ago I was in Lomchoey Massage in Sathorn. I forgot my umbrella. I noticed this minutes after I left when I was sitting in a taxi to Silom. Didn't want to go back, I called them to keep my umbrella until I have time to come back. That was yesterday. They still had it and handed it back to me.

[scottish-guy]

Sometimes you guys crack me up.

In what kind of parallel universe does the innocent victim (a447) become the one at fault?

:kap:

[Jellybean]

Sorry to hear about the theft of your watch in a Pattaya massage parlour a447. I shall treat it as a cautionary tale and reminder to be extra careful with my possessions as I set out on a new round of seedy joint visits over the next few months. Although I only own cheap watches, which wouldnтАЩt worry me unduly if they were to be pinched, but nevertheless, I wonтАЩt put temptation in the boysтАЩ way and will, usually, only take the minimum of money and possessions with me when venturing out to the dark side.

Like bidreamer I was also sorry to read on this thread of the circumstances surrounding the ending of cdnmattтАЩs relationship with Kim. It has been a long, winding, bumpy road of a relationship and I wish matt better luck in his next liaison.

Note: Now back to using hidemyass to access this forum with all the annoying irritations of being thrown out of SGT when I move from topic to topic. I thought something was going to be done to fix this issue тАж sigh

[TravellerDave]

I can recognise the security risk when visiting massage shops which I do quite regularly, particularly after a few hours on the beach at Dongtan. You are shown into a room, cubicle or curtained off area and invited to undress prior to having a shower. I can't imagine not having a shower. The shower is often at a distance from where you have undressed and in your pocket is your wallet with maybe 5000 baht plus your atm card plus your watch. The boy is waiting to accompany you into the shower but you are concerned about leaving your possessions. What do you do ?.
1. Just relax - you have been to the place before without a problem without a problem.
2. Take you wallet etc into the shower maybe in a plastic bag. I have done this but it can create a barrier between you and the boy. Are you doubting his honesty and the Thais can be very sensitive about these things.
3. Utilise a locker . Maybe not - you have a key but who else has one, and perhaps the lockers are even further out of sight.

OK your clothes are on the floor near the massage bed. Maybe the boy can get to your wallet whilst you are face down.
Also the post massage shower has similar security implications.

Do these thoughts worry others when going for a massage ?.

[a447]

Christian wrote:

the op has just lost or misplaced his watch.

WTF?? If, as far as you can judge, there is no proof of theft, then what proof do you have that I misplaced it? Or "lost" it?
For Christ's sake Christian, if I left it in the room when I left and they "couldn't" find it when I went back for it, did it sprout wings and fly out the window? I guess you'd also find it strange that when I went to the police, they said they'd treat it as a criminal investigation. Not once did they suggest I had misplaced or lost it.

As Scottish points out, some strange logic at work in this thread. I guess some people just do not believe that guys could ever steal farangs' possessions. If they find something missing, then it must be the farangs who are all at fault because the locals would never steal from "rich" farangs. Never. Unheard of. Especially in a third world country. Silly old me for suggesting the opposite.


For me, a watch is merely a device to tell the time. Nothing more. I want a watch that is cheap,.....

The very answer we probably all predicted? :sign5:

Christian, the quality and the cost of things you buy is entirely up to you and is none of my concern. It should also be none of your concern that I am the type of consumer who buys watches advertised in magazines. However, your rather parsimonious ways are reflected in all your posts and it's becoming tiresome.


I could not distinguish a fake from the real one.

I'm not surprised.

[catawampuscat]

I knew a farang who claimed he deliberately left a fake gold Rolex watch on a side table. It costs him under 500B. and he felt he got
away cheap if the rent boy swiped the fake and left without a tip. He said he would shower and the boy would leave quietly.
The story sounded like it was as phony as the watch but
the farang insisted it had happened to him several times.
He also claimed it was a good test.
Other farangs sometimes leave pre-counted amounts of baht exposed and check to see if their lad is light fingered.
In my opinion, temptation can happen to anyone depending on need or even if the customer was especially vile.

There is another story about a farang stealing from the Thai guy. He took the money out of a bag and knew the lad had
cash from another farang. Sounds phony but lowlifes are common among farangs too..

[gaymandenmark]

Of course it is not a robbery what happended to a447, but a theft is a theft, regardles how it happens or why.

I have a few times in my life been stolen from, albeit not in Thailand, and I thought.....oh well don't drink that much, don't be so careless or distrait, and blaming myself.

Then a friend told me, don't blame yourself, you are the victim.

That said, I am of course aware of where and with whom I am, that being walking at the Rambla in Barcelona, sitting alone on the beach with values or being in my room with someone I don't know.

But if stolen from, you are still the victim.

[DragonMaster]

It appears that Lim must have seen it and stuck it in his manbag. It had to be there somewhere on the premises and would have been easy to find.

I went to Walking Street looking for the tourist police but they weren't there. The police box on the corner was also deserted. On the way back to my hotel I ran into a policeman and asked him where the tourist police were. I then trudged half an hour up the hill before I finally found them. But they were useless. The Thai guy said I'd have to get the police involved and it would be a criminal case. I didn't want any hassles - just wanted my watch back, no questions asked.

Oh well, no big deal. Life's too short to worry about such things. But it'll be interesting to see what happens when I go back tomorrow and wave my money in mama-san's face. . haha

But just a warning about Apple massage. AYOR.

A447 I'm just curious if you went back the next day as you said for a follow up or did you just give up?

Not to start a flaming session here, but I'm curious about a couple of things.

1. You are making the assumption that the guy who gave you the massage "Lim" or "Lin" took your watch. Isn't it possible that another one of the staff may have seen it and taken it? It's rather unfair to name someone specifically since you have no proof that it was him who took it. It could have easily been someone else.

2. If you're not familiar with Walking Street, the Tourist Police are there every evening from about 9pm until 3am. They are not there 24 hours a day. After you found them, you state that they were useless and that that you'd have to get the police involved in a criminal case. Since you went to the police, what did you expect them to say or do? You are making an accusation of theft which is a criminal offense and that is what the police would act on. Perhaps in hindsight, you should have called Pattaya police while you were at the shop and waited for them to arrive. It is possible that the sight of a uniformed officer would have suddenly caused your watch to appear. At least he would have been able to search the bags while you were there.

Your expecting a747 to act rashionaly! Interesting. Do you post here often?

[timmberty]

agreed DM but then the story would'nt have had the same impact. i wonder what it must be like to be called a thief if you've not stolen anything. like you say, i'm sure lim would'nt have been the only one in the room between a447 leaving and coming back. easy to say well he was in there so it must have been him, but a447 was in there also, if he managed to walk out without noticing it was still on the side table where HE put it, then i'm sure lim might also have walked out without noticing it was there.
as for the tourist police, seems a447 wanted to make a fuss, but not so much of a fuss it might cause trouble. perhaps he thought they would just walk back to the shop with him and have a word.
which really if the boy/girl who stole it would have been clever enough to have taken it elsewhere,and so a body seach on everyone would have found nothing.
the moral of the story is ' dont leave your valuables somewhere and expect others to look after them for you'
you wouldnt do it at home so why do it when you are away?

[a447]

Dragon, I dropped by this afternoon to follow up - we can always live in hope... hehe - but was told 'Sorry mister, I already say no hab.' End of story.
Timmberty, you are spot on. I was just hoping a cop would accompany me there and maybe that would be enough. I didn't want to cause any trouble for the massage place..Also I should not have been so careless as to put someone in a situation of temptation. I find it difficult to blame him. What would I have done had the situation been reversed? What would any of us have done? Luckily we will never know. .

[christianpfc]

The boy is waiting to accompany you into the shower but you are concerned about leaving your possessions. What do you do ?.
1. Just relax - you have been to the place before without a problem without a problem.
2. Take you wallet etc into the shower maybe in a plastic bag. I have done this but it can create a barrier between you and the boy. Are you doubting his honesty and the Thais can be very sensitive about these things.
3. Utilise a locker . Maybe not - you have a key but who else has one, and perhaps the lockers are even further out of sight.

OK your clothes are on the floor near the massage bed. Maybe the boy can get to your wallet whilst you are face down.
Also the post massage shower has similar security implications.

Unfortunately, I shower alone most time.

I go for number 1 and had no problems so far. Most massage shops I visit don't have a locker. Should I ever get anything stolen, you can be sure I will bitch about in on all boards.

In short time hotel rooms, or when taking a new boy to my place, I keep my trousers on when I go to to the bathroom (i.e. I take them off in the bathroom before showering). Then I sometimes forget them in the bathroom (and the boys is there with them), and I leave them in the room (with the boy) after our activities.

Regarding the last paragraph in the quotation, there were cases recently reported in press where a second person was hidden under the bed to steal the massagee's valuables.

(I just made this up: massagee is the person who gets a massage.)

[a447]

Christian wrote:
Should I ever get anything stolen, you can be sure I will bitch about in on all boards.

Might not be a good idea, Christian. You might have someone posting something like this:


the op has just lost or misplaced his watch.

[stonebuddha]

I had a nice massage from the named boy the other day. It would have been a few days after this reported incident. No complaints, on the contrary a good massage and I'd recommend the boy. That said, I think his name should be removed from this post, and the massage place too. While the OP might be correct about the sequence of events, it wouldn't be enough for a conviction, so it's unfair to convict him here. It's probably against Thai libel laws even if it were provable.

Generally about the subject,

1. I've found thai boys are unlikely to steal, but avoid putting temptation in their way. I'd say they are more honest than Farang in this regard, especially when you consider the wealth gap. It's a lot easier to be scrupulously honest in all your dealings when you're wealthy than when you don't have a pot to piss in.

2. You're more at risk if the guy is not Thai. Easier for him to just go home if there's a problem.

3. You can get taken for a lot more by a 'good' guy that you've started to trust than from a 'bad' guy that you don't.
a) You're not at so much risk from guys you don't trust if you take sensible precautions. Yes, take your wallet to the shower. I usually put my valuables in my short pockets, roll them up and take that with me.
b) When you've started to tell people about the high quality of your relationship and how you trust your guy 100% - that's when you're at risk of a big loss. Or you might have found the perfect guy. Difficult to tell.

4. You're more at risk if you're not tipping fairly or 'cheating' in some way. A thai guy will see more justification in correcting a perceived unfairness through theft, than just stealing with no prior aggravation.

Have a great day in Pattaya.

[latintopxxx]

have a simple rule...trust nobody, especially if they are in the flesh trade, the mere fact that they are whores means their morals are compromised. In fact I make a point of letting the boy/masseur know that I don't trust them; sets the scene, puts them in their place. I make a point of letting the boy know that I'm aware of my belongings, my phone, wallet; when in the shower I need to be able to see my belongings, either they will be in a chair/ledge or the boy stands there holding them. Its not an equal relationship, I'm the customer and he;s the service provider and his job is to make me feel comfortable. Simple. He doesnt guide me, or tell me where I have to leave my belongings, I tell him. Many times politeness or too much smiling is taken as a sign of weakness, I prefer to smile but still be very direct in what makes me happy and what doesnt. Works for me.

[Nirish guy]

"the mere fact that they are whores means their morals are compromised."

Sorry Latin but that's absolute bollocks IMHO ! YOU may believe that based on your particular way of interacting with people / the boys but many of the Thai guys ( or whores as you prefer) have I believe better morals and are more trustworthy than a lot of the farang I see knocking about Pattaya and the likes and I would trust the boys quicker with my wallet (but maybe not the entire contents :-) than many other people I dee there. And if you the person going with said whores I take it you then consider your morals to be suitably compromised also - and if you concur with that statement then I have to tell you I don't agree with that statement either. Going with a hooker or being a sex worker doesn't "automatically" make you any less of a person or have any worse morals than the next person, people should be judged on their heart and actions not just what the decide to do for a living.

I'm guessing of course that you do actually fairly much agree with that statement anyway but it just doesn't give you the same hard on when you type if you were to publicly admit that.

[latintopxxx]

as far as I'm aware being a prostitute (guess the word whore is offensive to some) is not something that people are proud of, no matter what culture you live in. I prefer to play it safe by simply not trusting them. I do believe that by being a prostititute they have already compromised their morals and its only a small step to cross other red lines like drugs and theft. Additionally if you present yourself as a victim someone so inclined will take advantage of you. From the moment I step into a massage place my body language/attitude is one of assurance, I do not let them lead me, tell me what to do; in fact at times I will ask to change a room because i simply dont like it, small things that establish the fact that I'm "difficult"and not to be pushed around or short changed where services are expected. I dont believe that anyone is forced into prostitution, they choose to do so because of the excellent returns for low effort; i simply want to get out of the arrangement as much as possible without being a victim. You are welcome to trust them and leave your valuables lying around, I choose not to.

[Nirish guy]

I note you didn't comment on whether you believe you then also compromise your own morals ( I'm working here on the basis that you believe that you do have some to begin with of course) when you use (and I mean that word literally) the services of these apparently lazy people who you chose to go with on your travels - and if so can I also then assume then that in your view as your own morals are also compromised that the same thin red line applies between you taking drugs and stealing - however I'm guessing you don't do these things so is it just possible perhaps that the prostitutes you employ also are like yourself individuals with their own personality and moral view of the world and would also not engage in such things - or is that to easy and the inner moral compass you possess ( I assume) just applies to you there then ?

[latintopxxx]

I'm not discussing my morals, question here was are massage boys that provide more than a massage trustworthy....and I gave my input as to how I see them and how I behave so as not tp present myself as a victim. Sime of yoyu feel uncomfortable being totally honest with the "boys'and dont want to offend their feelings.
I dont care, my priority is my pleasure and my belongings and the "boy"is there simply to satisfy me...simple. By now you are all aware that my kink is humiliating the service provider...using him like a rubber toy...getting max pleasure for min cash...dont want to cause pain but if he's uncomfortable I dont care...as long as it feels good to me. If that means my morals are compromised then so be it...but I'm not the one being accused of stealing.

[arsenal]

One of my golden rules for a relaxing holiday, not just in Thailand but anywhere. Take nothing you don't mind losing. Cheap phone, cheap camera. And always remember that locks keep honest people honest. I always stay in the same hotel. I know that it's layout includes a mirror that allows you to look at certain places in the room while you are showering. That is where I place my money. In over 100 offs only one boy has stolen anything.

[latintopxxx]

thats exactly what I do when I can control the enviornment like in my hotel room, not so easy when one is out and about with 2 to 3 thousand baht in ones pocket and decides to pop in for a massage. I never wear jewelry or expensive watches, in fact only have one watch and that cost тВм180, so not great loss if it gets stolen or misplaced. Fully agree that removing temptation is the best way to avoid unpleasant situations, so not iphones or money laying around in sight, especially the way I like to get my "value for money" out of the commercial boys...they may feel tempted to obtain compensation through other means.

[gaymandenmark]

especially the way I like to get my "value for money" out of the commercial boys...they may feel tempted to obtain compensation through other means.

And I would not blame them. :glasses7:

[latintopxxx]

Fair comment. I know that the way I book "boys"by beating their price down and booking for a set time frame and not just a fuck can cause them to feel short changed; love the look on their face when they realise that 2 hours means two hours and that they are not allowed to leave simply because I've cum. For this very reason I avoid placing temptation in their way.

[christianpfc]

To sum up the op in three words: Watch your watch.

Latin has a point, the slightest sign of weakness will be exploited. Even I am not save from this. The day I forgot my umbrella in Lomchoey massage, I wanted to meet a boy I had there before. He was not in, but mamasan recommended his younger brother (18 y.o., currently with a customer). Sounds good. I wanted to eat before massage anyway, so I told her I would be back after dinner. So I did, and the operation ("Nice to see you back. He has been waiting for you, let's get inside") was too quick for me to say "no" because the younger brother was not so much my type (he is from the same province, don't know if he is really his brother, probably not because when I came back to pick up my umbrella she presented yet another boys as younger brother).

It was a "deer in the headlight" moment that I had, you suddenly realize that you have gone too far to back pedal (i.e. stopping the transaction would be a loss of face for all parties). The mistake was to tell her I would be back after dinner.

At least I can now say from two experiences that Lomchoey has a good quality for massage.

[latintopxxx]

I never allow myself to be rushed by anyone in thailand or anywhere else for that matter. Especially not in a "sex"venue. Part of the pleasire is browsing through the stock, squeezing a bun or two...ascertaining whats inclued in the "massage package"....and then making a selection. I have been klnown to stop a massage and request a new "boy"because I wasnt satisfied. Rule no.1......I'm the customer...I'm paying and what I want takes priority.

[Halfhansum]

Just out of curiosity Latin, do you walk around in a stab proof vest ? 5555

[latintopxxx]

no...just a smile and enough self assurance to get what i want. Must admit though that it has crossed my mind that one day a "boy"might snap as I do cross all the cultural and other red lines....like not touching their heads (funny I do much more than touch) and that sort of thing. Luckily I only book boys one at a time and I tend to book "boys"same size or smaller than me so in a confrontational situation would be able to handle myself although have never really had a violent scenario, a few tense/ugly ones ...like when a boy got really angry when I called him a "" cheap money boy" whilst I was fucking him...but he still carried on. Maybe one day I will experience an ugly situation but so far been lucky. I guess!!

[arsenal]

Latin: I'm pretty sure that you aren't serious most of the time. However if you are, and you really believe you could 'take' a young, fit, toned Thai boy of twenty. Well, when you learn you are mistaken it will be too late. :violent1:

If Latin would share his real name with us we'll be able to nod sagely when we read about his murder in the newspaper one day, nod sagely and murmur "Told you so".

[latintopxxx]

arsenal I'm not an old age pensioner...just in case you are wondering...I jog 10km every 2nd day do gym (free weights) 3 times a week. I'm able to pick up the average 70kg Thai "boy"and throw him across a room if I had to; so unless he catches me by surprise and knifes me in the back I'm quite sure I could manage to hold my own. Not all queers are timid handbag clutching nellies....this queer does not shy away from confrontation where necessary.
Having said that i'm aware that one day I may push too far and get a real negative reaction...to date nothing....have been able to control all situations by negotiation.

Having said that i'm aware that one day I may push too far and get a real negative reaction...to date nothing....have been able to control all situations by negotiation.In English or Thai?

[latintopxxx]

My negotiations...always in English...I can barely say hello in Thai.....so always in simple English....biggest issue is always when I book a "boy"for a period, usually 2 hours...sometimes a bit longer....but he thinks he can go after I've fucked him once and come...like after 40 minutes...then I point out we still have lotsa time remaining and his arse/body is mine for the full remaining time.....usually say this first with a smile...but can get loud and pretend angry if they still wanna stop, then say I will only pay half because they wanna quit...claim that they lie...try to cheat me...this usually works as they dont wanna loose money.... insist on fucking him again...this coupled with me grinning/sneering at his discomfort can make them angry...see it in their eyes...get this flash of anger...and as soon as I find a position they dont favour...thats exactly the position I want to fuck the longest in. Love saying to them "but you say you do everything"when they shy away from something...like rosebudding...snigger when they finally submit...love pressing all the buttons that put them in their place...let them know they are there for my pleasure and use...

[Nirish guy]

Tell the truth - you just came a little bit there as you were typing all that didn't you latin lol

[latintopxxx]

Not really, cant remember the last time I "came"alone...flirting between two gay friendly bases (Amsterdam and Barcelona) and with a job that see's me visiting lots of developing world parts of the world I have ample access tp partners who willingly help to keep me drained. My hobby is sex...my inspiration is "machofucker"and "privateboymovie"type porn....with a few personal touches thrown in....and love places like Thailand, poorer parts of Brazil and South Africa to name a few...lotsa docile arse for low cash.

[gerefan2]

Tell the truth - you just came a little bit there as you were typing all that didn't you latin lol
No irish... its was all talk :^o

[Jellybean]

I think this board would be a very dull place without latintopxxx. Every good drama needs a villain, doesnтАЩt it?

Oh, and whilst on the subject, does anyone miss the use of the word тАШfuckstickтАЩ? It has not been used very much lately. IтАЩd never heard that word until I started reading this forum.

[Jellybean]

Ooooh тАж I feel like I am experiencing my own particular Groundhog Day.

I have this strange feeling that ChristianPFC will post after me asking, тАЬWhat is rosebudding?тАЭ

Then NIrish-guy will post an amusing, round-the-houses reply hinting at an answer, but suggesting latintopxxx provide a definitive explanation. :)

[gaymandenmark]

yes where are christians and Nirish posts about the rosebudding? does anyone has a pic of a rosebudding, so we can all see the pretty and nice fetish of LatintopXXX?. :D

[Nirish guy]

Ha ha I am SO not getting drawn into this particular conversation lol - I suggest anyone who really wants to know does a quick search on Google with terms like rosebudding gay and video, I'm sure that will throw up more than enough options to quench your curiosity and enough for you to say "oh it's just that, yeah so what, been there done that" right through to "OH MY GOD that is absolutely gross" depending on your personal limits I guess.

However as most of the videos that popped up there even with that simple quick search seemed to end up the latter end of the scale ( if that's your bag) so if not don't hold me responsible for anything you might click on ! So after that disclaimer - enjoy (or not) - and don't say you weren't warned :-) and PLEASE, remember it was Latin who raised this particular topic in his previous post - NOT ME ! Lol

And I should add that the only reason I even knew what is was myself was just from my overhearing a conversation when in church last Sunday between the vicar and our choir master about a DVD one had just borrowed from the other during the week otherwise I wouldn't have had a clue either ! ( :-) )

[Halfhansum]

I REALLY wish i hadn`t searched for that ....... :ymsick:

[gaymandenmark]

Well it is a turn-off when I see it, but each man has his own pleasure, and as long it is going on in a mutual agreement and pleasure, fine with me.

The problem occurs when someone (read LTXXX), thinks it is his right to rosebud someone, maybe for hours, just because they "agreed to do anything" for a small amount.

[Brad the Impala]

Nothing like some good rosebud jam.

http://www.rosebudpreserves.co.uk/

[latintopxxx]

now everyone plse relax...maybe rosebud was a bit strong...its not like i stick my hand in there...not into fisting...max would be 3 fingers...most of the real work is just plain old vigorous fucking...with quite a bit of taking it right out and punching it back in in one smooth action....as I've stated before...dont engage them to make love...just wanna fuck hard...simple...and most can and do take it...some even surprise me as very active bottoms....

[joe552]

the title of the thread takes on a whole new meaning

[latintopxxx]

...finally somebody gets it...been waiting for days for the penny to drop...thanks joe