Happy Ending = (getting laid locally)

[christianpfc]

Almost there (getting laid locally)

(So far, getting laid involved significant traveling and/or spending significant amounts of money.)

Monday, 12.08.2013 During a stroll through a shopping center and singing contest (3 day festival around MotherтАЩs day), I meet the boys from the previous day again. This time, they have a cute boy in tow. I am invited to join (and pay for) a party at their place. One of them has 100 Baht, so only 200 Baht are required from me to send someone to buy drinks (whisky, ice, coke). We sit on the floor of the terrace. About ten, mainly male, age around 20 with some minors standing around and wondering what is going on (drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, imitation of sexual activities). Plenty of laughs, mainly at my expense. Music level is ok, but sitting on the floor is uncomfortable for me. The cute boy is sitting next to me, we exchange a few smiles, I get a glimpse at his underwear, it is pink. Would a straight boy wear pink underwear?

The bottle of whisky quickly gets empty, another collection of money is made to buy more, I contribute another 200 Baht. Like a collection in a church: the lid of ice bucket is passed around with a hint to me that another 200 Baht would be necessary to keep the party going. They bring a bottle of beer for me. From drinking all the beer (0.5l Leo), I need to pee. There is no bathroom, I have to pee into the canal next to the house (as I saw others do before). There is no occasion to wash my hands. I assume the person who distributed the ice for the drinks did the same (peeing, not washing his hands, and then touching the ice). But as I said before, some germs keep your immune system working.

For some reason, I have a look at my phone (new: i-mobile IQ6) which gets everyoneтАЩs attention. Now I realize that all of them have much older phones with smaller screens (but already in color and with camera). It has been a long time that my phone has been the center of attraction. Four of them use it to access their facebook accounts and to play on facebook. Keep this in mind: from the mobile phone you can assess the social status!

Later, I witness them exchanging batteries and SIM cards between their phones. What is going on? Empty battery? No more balance on SIM card?

We had established very quickly on our first meeting that I am looking for boys. Now they ask me which one I want, I point out the cute boy (Mee). You have to be careful, I had occasions where the cutest boy is shy and rather embarrassed when I point him out (actually this is the most common case, I have to change my strategy). But in this case I made sure this is not the case by whispering in his ear that I want him when he asked me. We go back to the shopping center and our group dissolves without getting to any deal.

About two hours later, we meet again. It is raining, so everyone is grounded in their dry place. Negotiations start from their side, down to 350, but I am still waiting for an offer of 300. (The 300 comes from a friend who picks up boys at Hua Lampong and rarely pays more than 500.) After a gap (everything has been said, I want to go home, rain is only light) I start to negotiate and finally accept the 500 he is asking for. You would think everything is fine now and we can go home, but you are wrong. Mee does not move. After some minutes, I ask what he is waiting for. A friend will come on motorbike and pick both of us up and drive us to my place. After 10 minutes, I am fed up with waiting and tell him I will go home and say goodbye. He does not follow me or ask me to wait. What goes on in that Thai brain? My first guess is: nothing. He lets this unique chance pass.(1) The next occasion might be in a week.

Tuesday 13.08.2013 I get an SMS that Mee called me, but doesnтАЩt have enough balance. When I call back at night, he doesnтАЩt pick up.

Wednesday 14.08.2013 Mee gives me a missed call, I call back and tell him that I will be free next week. He mentions 500 Baht, but I donтАЩt negotiate on the phone.

I have to wait for a good occasion where I can negotiate down to 300 (plus free beer and free internet at my place), or maybe I have to accept 500. But that will set the basis for further hook-ups, with him and with other boys. ItтАЩs better to keep the price low, and instead throw in a few hundred Baht for parties.

I wonder if starting negotiations about a price spoils everything. Boys who would have gone for free now ask for money, and boys who would not go with me for free still do not go with me for money?

(1) It could be worse. We live not far apart, so there will be another chance soon. But when I was at Proud 66 massage in April with black woman, and asked a massage boy to join us in her hotel room for 1500 for short time, he complained that Sukhumvit Soi 4 is so far away (!!!) and suggested we come back the following day and have a massage and tip 2000 Baht (!!!). I couldnтАЩt make this up. What goes on in that brain? There will be no second chance. ThatтАЩs why I like Pattaya and Saranrom. I never had such harebrained offers there.

[gaymandenmark]

Almost there (getting laid locally)



About two hours later, we meet again. It is raining, so everyone is grounded in their dry place. Negotiations start from their side, down to 350, but I am still waiting for an offer of 300. (The 300 comes from a friend who picks up boys at Hua Lampong and rarely pays more than 500.) After a gap (everything has been said, I want to go home, rain is only light) I start to negotiate and finally accept the 500 he is asking for. You would think everything is fine now and we can go home, but you are wrong. Mee does not move. After some minutes, I ask what he is waiting for. A friend will come on motorbike and pick both of us up and drive us to my place. After 10 minutes, I am fed up with waiting and tell him I will go home and say goodbye. He does not follow me or ask me to wait. What goes on in that Thai brain? My first guess is: nothing. He lets this unique chance pass.(1) The next occasion might be in a week.
.

1.Maybe he just think, there was to much cheap negotions about his body.

2. Maybe he did just not want to be with you. I could imagine that his way to react was very Thai, so none of you would loose to much face.

3. It looks like it was not a unique chance for him, maybe because you were in such a to big hurry to get him back in you bed, getting laid.

[Nirish guy]

and maybe all you had to do WAS wait chill out and wait a while, you waited a whole ten minutes after he'd maybe called his friend to say "hey come get us, it's raining" maybe his friend was in the middle of something, lie had you REALLY somewhere you had to be or something to do that was more important, surely half the point of living in Thailand IS that you CAN chill out and not have to rush around as if you've only another three days left on a trip as I'm guessing the boy was thinking, wow, so after sitting a bartering over me and being so cheap to hold out for 200 baht ( and then so weak as to give in anyway) and even after all that the guy didn't even hang around to wait to TAKE me home when my friend was coming to take us, I really don't know what goes on in their farang heads sometimes.

And re the whole bartering thing - whilst I can understand you not wanting to set precedents etc I'll repeat if I may what I said before - "just get on with it" as there for the sake of 200 baht you DIDN"T get a shag and perhaps came across to the boy(s) like some cheap asshole ( sorry but I'm guessing that IS how they would judge that behaviour from a faring and worst of all the even after all of your long efforts that maybe made you look bad to the boys you then gave in in the end anyway and thus looked weak to them so you'd of just been better saying to the guy from the start ( as you know the going rate now) "ok, later we'll go back, I'll give you 500 but I want great sex for that, ok ?' and then you could have sat down and relaxed and had an enjoyable drink with them all with no more negotiation or drama needed - and likewise just BUY the bloody whiskey, you've more money than they do (and they know it)- fuck it, lifes short, splash out a bit and enjoy life, hell even if it costs you 100,000 in total over the whole year you're living there then SO WHAT, life's short and it would make SUCH a difference to your (sex) life there and you'd have one hell of a year to remember as opposed to remembering all the shaggs you CUULD of had but DIDN'T and THEN you just might be surprised and the FREE sex you'll maybe end up getting as you're jugded to be a 'nice guy" and not some scheming tight ass farang who's all about splitting bills and bartering over the price of a guys ass - I'm sure Latin would be proud but meanwhile you went home alone (again) and all for the sake of a lousy 200 baht and a bit of patience :-(

And I'm not trying to be mean in any of the above by the way Christian, just pointing out a differing view than your own as sometimes it maybe comes across that you just don't see how your innocent (over) thinking and planning might look to others more relaxed and chilled people ( like the average typical Thai guy perhaps?)

[bobsaigon2]

Negotiating with a boy and his friends about whether the boy's ass is worth 300 or 500 Baht. Reprehensible? Yeah, something like that. At least that.

[dab69]

Not only what NIrish said but have you considered bringing the boy an extra
small present to show you care and are interested?
This could be an incredible opportunity if you really think you could care
more about the boy than you do about baht.. Might be rewarding even to you
as well.

[adman5000]

Christian- I have to agree with what NIrish Guy said. I think the sooner you align your thinking with the Thai pace and view of things, the sooner you will be enjoying yourself. It would be much more advantageous for the word to get around that you are easy-going and generous, than up-tight and cheap with no concept of "face".
I have adjusted over time to put myself into the Thai paradigm when in Thailand. I started with viewpoints similar to some of yours about money/time and found that adjusting to a different viewpoint brought much better results and a different way of thinking is good for all of us. Face is still a concept I have to think a bit more about to force myself to adjust.

As always, thanks for the post. Adding some pics would be great.

[joe552]

seems christian has taken a leaf out of latintop's book, but without the latter's alleged success. :dontknow:

[latintopxxx]

now thats being nastly...and unnecessarily so....yes I do bargain hard for commercial arse....and generally speaking on averrage i pay way below the supposed 1000bht short time rate...but thats because i dont waste time with the hold outs...if after 10 min of banter and counter offer the whore doesnt drop to my price i move on....but every night i do hook one or two ....i might get 4 or 5 rejections .....but it only makes the one who said yes taste so much sweeter....

[timmberty]

latin you now have over a thousand posts, most of them discuss cheap sex, riding boys like a pony and very little else..
the shock value went 999 posts ago. but do carry on someone might have missed it.

[bucknaway]

The hell with all that Christian, you have time and there is no race. Enjoy the chase because one the thrill of the chase is over. It's over. Lfe is not to be enjoyed in one lump sum.

[billy2bs]

Wll in todays US $, 300B= $9.58 500B= $15.98 so it is between 2 Big Mac and frys and 3 Big Macs and frys. It is just the meat I guess.
:bounce:

[gaymandenmark]

I think it is depressing that a relative young guy like christian, living in Thailand, can misread so much.

This story is different from the hunting at gogo-bars, and no. 10 or 25, it is about socialising, in a country where he lives.

The more I read your stories chistian, about how you like to be in control, the more I understand why you don't have a BF or get laid in Thailand.

Relax and show your nice personality, it is quite easy, and maybe one day you do not have to negotiate.

BTW: "but sitting on the floor is uncomfortable for me"

Maybe you should get used to it, how old are you, if you can not sit on the floor?

[a447]

Bobsaigon2 wrote:
Negotiating with a boy and his friends about whether the boy's ass is worth 300 or 500 Baht. Reprehensible?

I think so. Especially when the boy knows that 200 baht for a farang is neither here nor there - except maybe in Christian's case. You'd come across as mean and cheap, I'd imagine. He would see himself being treated as no more than a piece of meat. And that would be a total turn-off.

Christian, you seem to have trouble making up your mind, and the opportunity for fun runs away while you are sitting around wondering what to do. You also seem extremely fussy and want things to be absolutely perfect before you say "yes."

No wonder you are having so much trouble. For a young, healthy person like yourself, it should be easy to get laid.

As gaydenmark points out, you appear to have trouble reading the Thai way of doing things; perhaps you need to be more flexible and try to adapt to the Eastern way of thinking. And as Adman says, you need to consider the importance of "face" in Asian culture.

[Brad the Impala]

seems christian has taken a leaf out of latintop's book, but without the latter's alleged success. :dontknow:

Not only in the financial aspect but also in the power/control aspect, "you come with me on my terms, when I want, or not at all". Seems to be mostly the latter.

[latintopxxx]

a447...face only counts in public where friends/public can observe...and btw I use the concept of face to get my way...if halfway through a 3 hour session the "boy"wants to end it I "reason"with him that he agreed on a price and that he does "everything"....love the whole face thing...

[adman5000]

Christian:

When you next go to meet this guy:

Smoke some weed before you go. You really need to loosen up. Think mae pen rae, go with the flow, happy, happy, happy..........
Forget thinking about the price and how to save 100 baht. Think in terms of your local currency and consider the guy will likely use half the money to eat today and the other half to his family to eat. Offer him a meal (not just shit on a stick either.)Look in the mirror and think how you would feel if someone was jerking you around for such pitiful small amounts.
Be like the movie with the guy that can't say no, only say YES or OK. Think positive thoughts, don't negatively analyze everything.
Throw the microscopic evaluation stuff out the door... color of his underwear, direction he combs his hair or whatever other minutiae you get your mind tangled around evalutatin. Instead think: enoy the moment only, go with the flow, be happy........
The bottom line is that you need to change your approach and attitude or your time in Thailand will be an endless series of missed opportunities and you will lose out on experiencing the Thai style of life. Your posts remind me of the movie "Groundhog Day."(we want you to get what you are looking- yes, almost there, but these are some hints for getting there quicker and regularly)

LESSON ONE CONCLUDED. :occasion9:

[Jellybean]

Perhaps I am missing something here, but if members were continually challenging the veracity of my posts or questioned whether I was тАШrealтАЩ or not, I think the first thing I would do is to contact them by PM and attempt to resolve their misgivings. If this failed, and I was concerned about the constant, and probably tiresome, accusations, then I am almost certain I would say something like:

тАЬLook, when I am next in Thailand, how about we meet up and have a chat, then you will see for sure that I am what I say I am.тАЭ

With regard to ChristianPFCтАЩs topic, if he asked me, then my advice (which seems to have been said quite often throughout this thread by other members) would be to try and be a little bit more flexible. You might then be surprised at the positive results.

[Nirish guy]

I dont disagree with you Jellybean - but just for the record I wasn't questioning Latin's bonafide here or otherwise, I've already said ( several times) what I think and to what level of seriousness I take his posts here when reading or responding to same. I was merely answering his direct question about what I believe makes someone on here "real" or not.

But as I also said as far as I'm concerned anyone who choses to post here with an online persona is like everyone else more than welcome, assuming that they're not using that persona to be offensive or bullying others ( which Latin certain never does) just as long as they don't "actually" think that "I" in any way am taking what they say as the Gospel truth, whereas other members who have been verified by meeting people or whatever I would of course then give slightly more attention to their opinions perhaps. So if Latin's "real" or not really doesn't really matter, if he's not and he's on here to get off talking about his "kinks" and it works for him, well good luck to him I say, or if he is "real" well he's really no worse off and as he's the one who goes out of his way to never to formally confirm or denying in that regard as to whether he's actually pulling our chains or not (even now) I guess I'll just continue to think what I do until such times as I have reason to think otherwise - all whilst reading and enjoying his posts (but only of course for what I believe they probably are).

So, Latin, either way, knock yourself out pal, as I'm assuming you enjoy coming here like the rest of us then I'm sure if your wise you couldn't care less either way what anyone thinks either way anyway by now otherwise as Jellybean said you would have addressed that whole issue a LONG time ago anyway.

[latintopxxx]

well i'm real as in i'm a person...and i have one handle only...dont post under any diferent names....and i'm real as in my reports of what i get up to (whether anyone likes it or not) are real....and factual....I'm real as in I have a mind of my own and dont accept universal rules like 1000bht for short time...yeah right!!!....

[Nirish guy]

Ah ok, well you know I think that's the first time I've ever read you stating that your posts ARE genuine Latin as I always just assumed that you actually enjoyed keeping the whole guessing game thing about is he real or not going, so hey if that's what you're saying and youre stating that as fact now fair enough then, I guess I'll take your word about that from here on in then as to do otherwise would be rude and if you were to be lying ( which I'm not suggesting you are of course) then that would just make you look like a creep and not me for believing you when you blatantly told me something factual like that. So fair enough, as I said in my first message I'll happily stand corrected based on what you've just said then.

[Impulse]

Latin, don't you post on GR as Latin top? You say you are about 40 and that was the profile age of that person.

[latintopxxx]

gr...is that gindr???....i have a blackberry....so no grindr....and dont u know its rude to ask for id...isnt this an annonomous board...like hello....its not like I'm actually proud of the fact that I rent whores......let alone of the way I treat them....its a sexual kink....best kept at the very back of the closet....

[Nirish guy]

GR is generally used as short version of Gay Romeo.

[Impulse]

Ni is right about GR. But I was only trying to help make posters believe you are real Latin.

[latintopxxx]

ah...yes...gay romeo is me....but I havent looked at it in ages...almost forgot (early sign of alzheimers,????) not my thing...the online dating....I joined based on postings here on how easy it was to book commercial boys...but after having several looks didnt find anything attractive online......also found the whole thing too laborious and impersonal...rather be out in the real world...like to squeeze the tomato before i buy it sort of thing.....

[Surfcrest]

But as I said before, some germs keep your immune system working.
Actually no. Your immune system works more like the shields on the USS Enterprise. It is built to protect you from the first initial blows, allow you to step back, rest and recoverтАжor take evasive maneuversтАжif you were a star ship. The stronger you are, young, good diet, well rested, healthyтАжthe stronger your immune system. It wonтАЩt protect you from a knockout blow, like E. coliтАжfrom dirty hands putting ice in your drink. DonтАЩt reach your hand into the peanut bowl at the bar thinking you're immunizing yourself!


I start to negotiate and finally accept the 500 he is asking for. You would think everything is fine now and we can go home, but you are wrong. Mee does not move. After some minutes, I ask what he is waiting for. A friend will come on motorbike and pick both of us up and drive us to my place. After 10 minutes, I am fed up with waiting and tell him I will go home and say goodbye. He does not follow me or ask me to wait. What goes on in that Thai brain? My first guess is: nothing. He lets this unique chance pass.(1) The next occasion might be in a week.
Wednesday 14.08.2013 Mee gives me a missed call, I call back and tell him that I will be free next week. He mentions 500 Baht, but I donтАЩt negotiate on the phone.
I have to wait for a good occasion where I can negotiate down to 300 (plus free beer and free internet at my place), or maybe I have to accept 500. But that will set the basis for further hook-ups, with him and with other boys. ItтАЩs better to keep the price low, and instead throw in a few hundred Baht for parties.
ThatтАЩs why I like Pattaya and Saranrom. I never had such harebrained offers there.
I think from your storyтАж.if IтАЩm confused as to what the final negotiated price isтАжhe surly must have been be too. Maybe that is one of the reasons he didnтАЩt get up to leave with you.

Even if there was an understanding that he accepted at the first party, it sounded as though the whole thing was just a transaction to youтАж..and perhaps that made him feel uncomfortable. Thai boys can get sensitive about such a thing, especially the ones in pink underwear hoping it may turn out into more and playing this drama out in front of other friends. You must admit, it sets the tone for any future get togetherтАж.or limits it somewhat, for himтАж.does it not?

I agree with you 100% on the price factor. If thatтАЩs your limit, stick to it! Especially if it too might set the tone for future deals with these boys. Just because these boys donтАЩt have a lot of cash in their wallet (or maybe they do), doesnтАЩt mean they couldnтАЩt add it up, if they had. As soon as you lose sight of your personal limits and spend money for the parties on top of what you are giving themтАжtheyтАЩll know your wallet is open and so the game is on to get as many of those bills out of yoursтАжand into theirs.

While I donтАЩt pick up boys on a regular basis, I do have a pizza list to call from and like you I have a set price. I realize that some of the boys, like your recently posted YouTube clip
http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/post279136.html#p279136 will see a few to several others and so negotiating above the usual limit is only feeding their greed. They are in a very well-paying job, for the amount of education they may or may not have and the amount of physical effort required, especially compared to the guy raking hot asphalt on a blistering hot day for much, much less. My pizza list changes from time to time, year to year and so sometimes having them start that тАЬmore money conversationтАЭ is my trigger to walk away.

There are so many out there, it is very hard to have many regrets about the one or two that got away.

Surfcrest

[christianpfc]

The original post was to show that there are evil forces in the universe that try to prevent me from getting laid. In that case, the problem was not the money; the boy just didnтАЩt want to walk 20 minutes in light rain.

A difference of 200 Baht could work out to a large amount with future fictitious similar arrangements. But now, my major concern is to get something going, so 500 Baht is fine for me.

I have another theory: with some negotiation, I might weed out boys who are horrified at the prospect of sex with a man and only go because they want the money, and try to cut the time spend with me as short as possible. On the other hand, these probably wouldnтАЩt smile at me and enter negotiations. For 300 Baht, I might get boys who are at least bi-curious or just horny because they didnтАЩt get a girl for a while.

There were positive signs during the party (we exchanged several looks that I interpreted тАЬI know how this will endтАЭ). The negotiations later (at the shopping center) were banter with his friends, who got him down to 350 (at least thatтАЩs what I understood). There was a group effort to get us two together for a happy ending. I should have taken that offer (at that time it was not raining). Then, when we were waiting for the rain to stop and had agreed to 500, I had a moment тАЬnow or next timeтАЭ, and went home alone.

He who pays the piper calls the tune. If you let the reins lose, I will end up like with Ice (who peed on my bathroom floor and on the the doorsill to the balcony, didnтАЩt take a shower, didnтАЩt return my affections when we woke up the following morning тАУ anyway, his body odor put me off).

Several Farang friends told me they get boys for 300 Baht. I have been asked for 300 Baht once at Saranrom, and for 400 Baht twice. So this number is not off the world. But my priority now is to get something started, and I will happily pay 500.

I contributed about 650 out of 800 Baht that the party cost. And I hope there will be a chance to repeat this soon. But this is not pure generosity, I have ulterior motives. I would not join (and fund) a party that consists of Thai girls. And I hope there will be more new boys next time.

Sitting on the floor: I just canтАЩt get my knees on the floor as the Thais do, and I have to wrap my hand around my knees so I donтАЩt fall over backwards.

[latintopxxx]

christian...sometimes u really confuse me...i do enjoy reading your posts...so please do keep posting....but sometimes I really have to wonder....

[Surfcrest]

The original post was to show that there are evil forces in the universe that try to prevent me from getting laid.

Sitting on the floor: I just canтАЩt get my knees on the floor as the Thais do, and I have to wrap my hand around my knees so I donтАЩt fall over backwards.
The only force in the universe I can think of isn't evil, unless it's not on your side....that being confidence....especially when you're paying for sex.

My next suggestion might address both problems, especially the latter......yoga.

Surfcrest

[Dodger]

christianpfc wrote:

He who pays the piper calls the tune.

I'm speechless!

[latintopxxx]

dodger stop being over dramatic...havent you heard..... "the customer is always right"..... it's the principle we should always use as customers....I'm paying...now please me....

[gaymandenmark]

Is it only me that thinks one has to be "intellectually challenged", if someone thinks he is "a customer", because he is socializing with a group af Thai outside the commercial gay scene......even if he is paying for the piper?

If I had looked at it this way, I would have destroyed many many happy moments and hours in Thailand.

Like Dodger I am speechless.

[latintopxxx]

true it was not in a commercial venue...but the cutie was open to negiotiation which would indicate that he's "offable"....I guess that the date fell through due to other unknown reasons...and no need to be insulting...calling whatsaface..challenged...not nice..

[christianpfc]

It was actually the group of boys who started asking me "whom do you like" and "how much" as soon as we figured out that I am interested in boys. Mee asked me twice and I wispered back into his ear that I want him. Now I am left wondering if that was serious or they were just joking.

Update

Monday 19.08.2013
I call Mee at night, he is not free. I cannot image which activity is not worth interrupting to come to my room for 500 Baht for sex, but up to him.

Wednesday 21.08.2013
I had an appointment with a Thai friend, but due to a meeting at work and having to travel the following day, he could not come. At least he told me in the afternoon, so I could change my plans accordingly.

I call Mee. He is free and we can meet at the shopping center. (My mistake, if there is traveling involved, let the moneyboy travel while I wait in my room and do something useful. I should take some lessons from latintopxxx how to deal with prostitutes or potential prostitutes.)

At the shopping center, one of his friends hits me up for 100 Baht for beer, another one for 20 Baht and finally Mee for 200 Baht for beer. I give them the money, looking forward to another party at their place and finally taking Mee to my room. But I am wrong. Mee is not free any more. They are going to get Mee a tattoo (at 9 pm? Where?). I ask if I can go with them, but my presence is no longer required.

Despite my experience (living and working in four countried, I assume they rarely get away further than 50 km from their place of birth) and education (PhD, I think I spent more time in school and university longer than all of them combined), they manage to rip me off. But they have the advantage of being in a group and they have Thai as mother tongue.

Spent 1 hour and 320 Baht and not an inch closer to having sex with Mee. I am sensitive to bullshit and drama, so there will be one or two more chances before I lose interest. But it will be difficult to turn the situation around, they probably think they can fool me again, but I am not a walking ATM. There will be a lot of тАЬnoтАЭ from me next time we meet. (Until Mee asks if he can come to my room, that will be a тАЬyesтАЭ тАУ but just us two, not his friends).

I donтАЩt mind paying for a party, but just hitting me up for money and then leaving is not ok by my standards. I had a similar situation at the end of my second (?) holiday in Thailand. I asked a friend if he wants to have dinner with me. He led me to McDonalds (I have been inside a McDonalds twice in my life) and ordered a take-away, I paid for it, then he said goodbye and took a taxi home. My job was merely to pay for the meal. After that, we didnтАЩt have any more conversation than тАЬhelloтАЭ when our paths crossed. These are the only two occasions I remember where I was a walking ATM.

On the other hand, such situations allow me to assess someone elseтАЩs character quickly and it doesnтАЩt cost that much.

[bidreamer]

At first, I thought Christian did all kind of things wrong, (such as pointed out here already) leading to a failed opportunity, but after the last post I'm not sure. Seems you are dealing with a shamelessly opportunistic gang of boys - being dismissed as soon as your usefulness as a source of free cash is over for the day must be annoying as hell. I'd definitely call it a loss and move on . In my rather limited experience combining paid sex and pleasant socializing is rather challenging, it's either having fun together, with free sex later if there is mutual attraction, or it's strictly commercial (can still be nice to the guy of course).

[gaymandenmark]

I wispered back into his ear that I want him. Now I am left wondering if that was serious or they were just joking.

I cannot image which activity is not worth interrupting to come to my room for 500 Baht for sex.

.. one of his friends hits me up for 100 Baht for beer, another one for 20 Baht and finally Mee for 200 Baht for beer. I give them the money, looking forward to another party at their place and finally taking Mee to my room. But I am wrong. Mee is not free any more. They are going to get Mee a tattoo (at 9 pm? Where?). I ask if I can go with them, but my presence is no longer required.

Despite my experience .. (PhD, I think I spent more time in school and university longer than all of them combined), they manage to rip me off.....

Spent 1 hour and 320 Baht and not an inch closer to having sex with Mee. I am sensitive to bullshit and drama, so there will be one or two more chances before I lose interest. ...

... I had a similar situation at the end of my second (?) holiday in Thailand. I asked a friend if he wants to have dinner with me. He led me to McDonalds (I have been inside a McDonalds twice in my life) and ordered a take-away, I paid for it, then he said goodbye and took a taxi home. My job was merely to pay for the meal. After that, we didnтАЩt have any more conversation than тАЬhelloтАЭ when our paths crossed. These are the only two occasions I remember where I was a walking ATM.

Suddenly I am in doubt if christian is just kidding around with us.
But if so, I like his dry sense of humor. :wav:

[Brad the Impala]

I am not a walking ATM.


Yes you are. If it walks like a duck talks like a duck treats people like a duck......

If you can treat someone like a whore, they will behave like a whore. You barter them down to be a cheap whore, then expect them to come tail wagging trotting after master to his room! You behave like a lascivious punter, they have treated you like one.

If someone outside direct commercial circles asks you how much you would pay to have sex with them, make a joke, make sweet talk, make FUN! "How many stars are there in heaven etc etc". Not everyone in Thailand is a whore so desparate for 300 Baht/500 Baht that they will have sex with you for financial benefit alone.

However what many in Thailand are looking for, a residue of their feudal system, is a patron. That patron may help them financially, or he may raise their prospects or their face or their sense of self worth, or a combination of all. You seem to fail on most counts with a significant regularity. It's a signpost for you.

When I was first in Bangkok, in my early twenties and quite cute, a long time ago, whenever I had sex with a guy, almost all non scene because there wasn't much of one then, I would always give the guy a present of a relatively small amount of cash afterwards. It was just a reflection of our disparate circumstances. It was never discussed before hand, and I never thought of the guys as whores, or treated them as such, because of it, and frankly they never behaved like them either.

[gaymandenmark]

Clever words Brad, when I was young I would never discuss or negotiate about how much to pay, even in Thailand.

As you say, if you treat people like whores, they will behave like whores.

25 years later it is, surprice, still the same, I use the same tactics outside the dedicated commercial scene, don't ask, don't negotiate and don't talk about money.

[joe552]

Very well put, Brad. It's a shame that christian's experiences (as he relates them here) eventually come down to money. It seems to me he's wasting a great opportunity to enjoy a new culture, while still behaving like the sex tourist he once was (and I use that term because I see myself as a sex tourist, and not a bad thing). I'm actually getting tired of reading his posts now - very few happy experiences, just constant disappointment (of his own making, I think)

[adman5000]

Christian: I strongly agree with the perspective provided by Brad. It is some good words of wisdom and in my personal experiences, I have found his comments to be true about the concept of patron and just being a decent person to the guys to be undervalued by many.
Similarly, Gaymandenmark is offering some excellent advice to not talk about money.
I find your posts interesting to read because whether purposely or not, you are painting a picture of common areas of cultural confusion for a Farang in Thai culture. It is similar to a fable. There is a lesson to be learned from your lack of success, your mental reactions to their interactions with you, and your point of view. I could take what you have written and offer the Thai guys point of view and it could be a "teaching moment" for many of us. So either you have Aspergers and it is just blowing right past you, or you are smarter than you let on, and using your stories to describe potential Farang misreads of Thai culture.
I don't pretend to understand how they view everything, but I enjoy trying to understand and fit the pieces together. :glasses7:

[gregvc]

It seems to me that, basically, Thais do not like Christian. He doesn't treat them well and they return the same. I have only had a few such happenings over 20 years, about the same as I might in Australia.

[Smiles]

" ... I cannot image which activity is not worth interrupting to come to my room for 500 Baht for sex ..."
Now Christian, you are more often than not starting to come across as a self-absorbed jerk.

I, like others have enjoyed much of your writings here, but now, slowly, I've about given up.
You are very wordy, detailed to a fault, idiosyncratic to the point of being your own worst enemy ... all of which, frankly, tend to enhance the descriptions of an interesting journey out there on the hard streets of Bangkok.

But I throw in the towel now, after that monumentally arrogant statement above: lost interest completely in the shadow of your utter lack of empathy with the 'objects' you negotiate 300 or 500 baht with. You know ... those 'objects' which of course could not possibly have anything better to do than service you for peanuts.

[gaymandenmark]

.....He doesn't treat them well and they return the same......

I am not sure christian will agree in that.

In his own self-image, I am afraid he thinks he treasts them very well, because he pays around 80% of the Piper and some beers, and for that they should show they are thankful.

I am also sure, he thinks it ought to be a part of the negoation terms before getteing laid, ....I have already paid....

Some words come to my mind, good old fashioned imperialism, do remember to bring some plastic pearls (or Eiffeltowers) to the native, then they will be happy and do almost anything for you.

[Zebedee]

I travel to Thailand because I CANNOT get what the Thai guys give,anywhere else. I pay more than the going rate especially if I am really pleased with the "service" he provides . I understand there are falang that may be watching the pennies, however to continually gave a blow by blow account of the penny pinching as a sort of triumph over the hard-up thai guy really pisses me off! The only difference between CPFC and Latin is that I believe what CPFC writes.

[a447]

Adman5000 wrote:
So either you have Aspergers

That thought has crossed my mind many times. His seemingly total lack of empathy, and his inability to communicate on a slightly deeper level with the locals, leads to this belief.

And on occasion in the past, I have suggested that he may be having us on.

Hard to tell.

But I'm kind of with Joe, Zebedee and gaydenmark.

[christianpfc]

I repeat: as soon as they found out that I like boys, they asked me whom I like most and then somehow the talk turned to "how much". I would have left it at letting Mee know that I like him and would like to meet again.



Suddenly I am in doubt if christian is just kidding around with us.
But if so, I like his dry sense of humor. :wav:

My sense of humor. I report everything as it happens (but you get to hear only my point of view of the events).



" ... I cannot image which activity is not worth interrupting to come to my room for 500 Baht for sex ..."
Now Christian, you are more often than not starting to come across as a self-absorbed jerk.

But I throw in the towel now, after that monumentally arrogant statement above...

My sense of humor. The original statement is a conclusion from myself to others: just because there is nothing I do on the evening of normal working day that I wouldn't interrupt for such a windfall (with commensurate remuneration of course), doesn't mean the same is true for him.

Thanks everyone for their advice. There are some ideas that did not cross my mind.

I am not a very social person, more introvert (except on the forums). But my intentions are good: I want go out to have fun and want the other to have fun, have money and am willing to spend a reasonable amount, and am prepared to pay the going prices for moneyboys. Maybe I have "boring", "cheapskate" or "nerd" (that for sure, I have evidence) written over my forehead?

I have plenty of interactions with Thais in my area, most is not based on money, they are just curious about me and my ability to communicate in Thai helps a lot. (I have friends who cannot speak Thai, but can replace that by personality/character.) Two of my friends (one in Bangkok, one in Pattaya) don't have any problems to get boys from the street for 300 to 500 Baht, so the problem must be I.

I have another idea. There are many boys who are available, but don't want to be seen going with a farang (e.g. the boy in NIrishguy's story). So joking about going with me for 500 Baht in the group with his friends might be fine, but then actually leaving together is not. Next time I will call him and ask him to come to my place (which was my intention on 21.08., but I let him talk me into meeting at the shopping center). And if that doesn't work because he is too lazy to walk 20 minutes (I don't know if he has a motorbike), well then he can go fuck himself and I will follow gaybutton's advice and have a wank instead of sex with him.

After they left me alone, I was out and had nothing to do, so I contacted a boy I chatted with on gayromeo earlier that night. He turned out to be a moneyboy (daytime job as a waiter, but taking customers on gayromeo) and asked for 1000 Baht. I took taxi to his place and everything went fine. Nothing to write home about, I just mention it as a contrast. Going to a moneyboy's place might not be the standard procedure, but this way I have full control about time of arrival (and it was in Sathorn area, so I could have a stroll in Soi Twilight afterwards). And it's interesting to see how others live. The boy in question remembered me from Sunee Plaza where he used to work two years ago.

[loke]

I agree that some Thai boys that are not used to the commercial scene,just dont want to be seen with foreigners in their own local area.
And you can understand that , can't you ? If their friends and family find out they will maybe look at him in a different way . And many boys hide their sexuality too .

You just have to accept it and look for the boys that want sex and like farangs. Not difficult in Bangkok.

[christianpfc]

" ... I cannot image which activity is not worth interrupting to come to my room for 500 Baht for sex ..."
Now Christian, you are more often than not starting to come across as a self-absorbed jerk.

But I throw in the towel now, after that monumentally arrogant statement above...

My sense of humor. The original statement is a conclusion from myself to others: just because there is nothing I do on the evening of normal working day that I wouldn't interrupt for such a windfall (with commensurate remuneration of course), doesn't mean the same is truefor him.


To support my claim: if any of my readers wants me to vacuum clean his carpet or iron his shirts or do whatever (please discuss in advance) in an Easter bunny suit or in the nude or whatever, my rate is 3000 Baht for two hours. Anywhere in Bangkok, on weekdays after 8 pm, on the weekend any time (between midnight and midday 1000 Baht surcharge). PM me.

[bucknaway]

I agree that some Thai boys that are not used to the commercial scene,just dont want to be seen with foreigners in their own local area.
And you can understand that , can't you ? If their friends and family find out they will maybe look at him in a different way . And many boys hide their sexuality too .

You just have to accept it and look for the boys that want sex and like farangs. Not difficult in Bangkok.


I think it stands out more when the farang is 60'ish and the Thai guy is 21'ish

A 60'ish farang with a 40 or 50'ish Thai guy will not cause a second look from most folks. If the Thai or farang are concerned about such a thing.

[anonone]

" ... I cannot image which activity is not worth interrupting to come to my room for 500 Baht for sex ..."

To support my claim: if any of my readers wants me to vacuum clean his carpet or iron his shirts or do whatever (please discuss in advance) in an Easter bunny suit or in the nude or whatever, my rate is 3000 Baht for two hours. Anywhere in Bangkok, on weekdays after 8 pm, on the weekend any time (between midnight and midday 1000 Baht surcharge). PM me.

Latin might have something for you to do for a couple hours. I would love to see the epic negotiations as you each battle for the baht. :sign5:

You are a hoot Christian.

[Jellybean]

ChristianPFC has been a controversial and outspoken poster on SGT right from the start.

Honestly though, I think some of the posts about him on this thread have been a little bit on the harsh side. I have met Christian several times and I think part of the problem here is that he has a very dry sense of humour and some of his posts are written very much with his tongue placed firmly in his cheek. Perhaps that is not coming across to some readers.

I donтАЩt agree with the comment that Thai boys donтАЩt like him. When I have been with him in go-go and host bars in тАШSoi TwlightтАЩ he attracts considerable attention and, in most cases, he is the youngest fa-r├аng customer in the bar. IтАЩve also noticed that he attracts a lot of male and female attention when we have been out on our tours.

He does seem very particular about the sort of Thai boy that he finds attractive. And his copious and methodical note taking does seem to me somewhat unusual. But from those notes he is, of course, able to write extremely detailed and sometimes hilarious accounts of his activities.

I do however agree that some of his posts recently have been on the negative side and have tended to dwell too much on how little he can barter down and commission young Thai guys for sex, especially those encounters he makes away from the commercial scene.

A number of members have offered, what I believe, are very constructive suggestions on how he should approach boys, such as Mee, in non-commercial situations.
Not talking about money beforehand and giving the appearance that you regard the boys as prostitutes, even though they may have been the first to mention money, is surely a very good idea. I would brush aside any talk of specific amounts with humour, as one poster said above. Treat the boys as potential boyfriends, treat them with respect. And if you really want to get to know a boy, rather than just a quick up-and-under, then why not consider a one-to-one date at a restaurant or coffee bar? To me it seems like a more civilised way to approach a non-commercial boy.

After all Christian, you are no longer a tourist with a deadline, you have all the time in the world to wait. WhatтАЩs that old maxim тАж all good things come to those who wait.

And certainly donтАЩt humiliate them with derisory offers of small amounts of money. I think beating Mee down from 500 Baht to 300 Baht was almost certainly an error on your part. The minimum I would pay would be 1,000 Baht and I mentioned this in a post I made about a boy from the old Solid Bar who offered me sex for a lesser sum.

I have met several boys on the Internet over the years who were not out and out money boys. Many were students, most of whom were having problems financing their way through university. I used to help towards the cost of their fees, rent, food and little extras. At no time was it even hinted at by me that I was paying them for sex. Okay, it was probably a question of semantics, but it was a game worth playing and if you want to play this game, then you need to learn the rules.

And one last point, you may just find it wasnтАЩt a game after all, that the next guy you meet might well end up becoming the genuine, loving, caring boyfriend you are looking for.

[francois]

Jellybean, I hearby nominate you for the Nobel Prize in diplomacy.

[jinks]

Nevertheless CORRECT information.

Our very own walking Wiki Pidia

[timmberty]

i used to think people were a bit poncy having a go at me for not worry if my spelling was 100% correct or my granma
now we have people having ago at others on how to spell thai words .. tho not even real thai words but the romanic thai words.. im sure someone will now tell me romanic isnt a word ... the joys of not being a slave to the sheep.
if you do ask for yaba and use a short 'a' rather than a long one, what do you actually get ? same or different ?
it's important and we need to know.

[svyturys]

Let me add some totally useless information: when yaba is transliterated into Russian, it is declined like a Russian feminine noun (I will spare you the declension in 6 cases singular and plural, as I'm too lazy to switch to a cyrillic keyboard and didn't touch-type Russian for years and therefore forget which letter is on which key.)
I'm a native Russian speaker and I don't know such noun.

[timmberty]

Nevertheless CORRECT information.

Our very own walking Wiki Pidia

are you sure jinks ? do you know russian nouns? and have an arcrilic keyboard?
or like wikipedia are you just assuming what is written is true.

[adman5000]

I second that motion.
It is also a topic we can all learn from.

JellyBean said: I have met several boys on the Internet over the years who were not out and out money boys. Many were students, most of whom were having problems financing their way through university. I used to help towards the cost of their fees, rent, food and little extras. At no time was it even hinted at by me that I was paying them for sex. Okay, it was probably a question of semantics, but it was a game worth playing and if you want to play this game, then you need to learn the rules.

I must admit that I have had difficulty managing the semantics of such a situation and have made my own errors. Several years ago, I met a very nice Thai guy on GR. In fact, I think he was one of about 2 that I have actually met. His English was excellent, he had a decent job, he came to my room and we talked about what I was looking for, and he asked me if afterwards, I would then help with certain categories of his expenses. My mind had trouble digesting the semantics of giving someone a fair and fixed sum versus promising to fund some unknowns. My mind preferred a fixed commitment, he wanted a general type of patronage. I preferred not to enter into that agreement. In hindsight, I could have agreed to the concept and managed it. But I did not want to. I had just ended a relationship with another Thai guy that I had taken very good care of (along with members of his family) and I preferred to be careful with such a situation again. I remember mapping out all the pros and cons and comparing what I was willing to offer versus the arrangement he wanted. I just preferred to do it on a transactional basis under controlled pricing. But I should have gained more insights into how he saw it working. But my fear was that his mind was thinking "I stay with you and you pay my tuition and room for one year."

JellyBean: From your experience, what do you regard as the primary rules that need to be learned?

[timmberty]

i will put this on gaybuttons 'i dont get it list'
what is the differance between someone selling themselves for beer, food, rent and help mama, or paying for the room whilst going to school and the schooling ?
if he is making enough to pay his way thru school and his rent whilst doing so, then when it comes to getting a job and working for 10,000 baht a month or carry on selling his personal services for 20-30,000 baht a month, what do you think he will choose ?
its all a game to play .. and when the games finished theres always another one to take the place of the last one ..
then you die.

[svyturys]

dodger stop being over dramatic...havent you heard..... "the customer is always right"..... it's the principle we should always use as customers....I'm paying...now please me....
That's the American mentality which you can't always apply whilst abroad. I was born in USSR and there it was the seller who was always right. I've seen customers being abused and even punched on one occasion. So latin I would suggest you to keep your wisdom at home.

[bucknaway]

dodger stop being over dramatic...havent you heard..... "the customer is always right"..... it's the principle we should always use as customers....I'm paying...now please me....
That's the American mentality which you can't always apply whilst abroad. I was born in USSR and there it was the seller who was always right. I've seen customers being abused and even punched on one occasion. So latin I would suggest you to keep your wisdom at home.

Oh HELL NO! Get punched by a guy who is hired by the hour? I would only put up with that only if I was too old and weak to fight back, but then a situation like that would make the moneyboy nothing more than a Thug.

[adman5000]

Timmberty- We are not talking a job versus money for sex.

For some Thai guys, how the money for sex transaction is presented/arranged makes a difference to them in their minds. To some, prostitution is not the same as patronage.

[timmberty]

yes adman i know what was being spoken about .. but its the same thing, just in a different package.
does the guy who has just earnt 1000 baht having sex with his sponser really go to sleep feeling that much better than the guy whos just earnt 1000baht having sex for money?

[colmx]

Christian... hope you don't take this in the wrong way... your lack of empathy is astounding for me....

Especially as someone that has been compared to a vulcan in the past!

I LOVE your reports and i am very jealous that i am not in Thailand and sharing your experiences....

But to use an American expression... wake up and smell the roses!

You should be having the best time of your life... not racking up regrets!

[dab69]

3000 bt? vulcan?

I used to idolize Spock as a teen. The new Spock is a dream.
I can just imagine Christian with the forehead hair ("bangs") and pointy ears.
Don't tell me you have black hair also....

I agree that some Thai boys that are not used to the commercial scene,just dont want to be seen with foreigners in their own local area.
And you can understand that , can't you ? If their friends and family find out they will maybe look at him in a different way.Yep, they'll think he's a prostitute.

I have met Christian several times and I think part of the problem here is that he has a very dry sense of humour and some of his posts are written very much with his tongue placed firmly in his cheek.If he could describe how his tongue is placed firmly between someone else's cheeks he may have more of a following, no?

[cameroncat]

Thai boys are pretty Brand conscious, a little hard to believe they would be impressed by a cheap Chinese Samsung Galaxy knock-off phone LOL

[Zebedee]

CPFC,has been compared to a Vulcan, suspected Asperger's syndrome , or posting tongue in cheek. The fact is (IMO) he is a highly intelligent , articulate ,and multilingual individual. He can if he wants to work in his homeland where I assume he would earn a liveable wage ....if not better...which would allow him to visit thailand like the rest of us sex tourists!
But he chooses " to live among the natives" and barter them down from (in one instance ) 500THB to 300THB! By today's currency conversion that is approximately 300THB = $10:50 Aud or тВм7:00 . A pint of beer in my local pub in Perth costs $8:70 Aud ,if I go to the CBD it is more expensive.
Put it this way he wants to "dart someone up the ass" .....thank you Uncle Albert...for the approximate price of a pint!
It is hardly fair for someone with his obvious talents ( due to hard work on his part) to take on the locals who are, shall we say from a disadvantaged segment of society , ok ok not all of them! But safe to say the majority of them for various reasons, but lets not get in to that. Basically CPFC has the upper hand and all the advantages, compared to his "prey".
I do not wish to be overly harsh on CPFC, but he knows exactly what he is doing and "boasts" about it here online. Many of you have tried to explain away his behaviour because you like the guy. Fair enough I can understand that, but I most certainly do not condone his exploitations.

[allieb]

I've just watched the programme on the BBC I player, Very interesting. Not knowing much about the effects of Yaaba I now think that my last BF in Thailand may have taken it as the behaviour matches. Towards the end of our relationship he had severe mood swings and got violent.

Just for information I watched the I player with a VPN from Saudi but I have discovered a site where live world TV can be watched for free
The UK TV group includes All ITV and BBC channels. the site is www.filmon.com it streames very well and no need for any proxy or VPN

[Zebedee]

I've just watched the programme on the BBC I player, Very interesting. Not knowing much about the effects of Yaaba I now think that my last BF in Thailand may have taken it as the behaviour matches. Towards the end of our relationship he had severe mood swings and got violent.

Just for information I watched the I player with a VPN from Saudi but I have discovered a site where live world TV can be watched for free
The UK TV group includes All ITV and BBC channels. the site is www.filmon.com it streames very well and no need for any proxy or VPN

Hmm , very interesting allieb, shukran!

[Zebedee]

i used to think people were a bit poncy having a go at me for not worry if my spelling was 100% correct or my granma
now we have people having ago at others on how to spell thai words .. tho not even real thai words but the romanic thai words.. im sure someone will now tell me romanic isnt a word ... the joys of not being a slave to the sheep.
if you do ask for yaba and use a short 'a' rather than a long one, what do you actually get ? same or different ?
it's important and we need to know.

"yes adman i know what was being spoken about .. but its the same thing, just in a different package.
does the guy who has just earnt 1000 baht having sex with his sponser really go to sleep feeling that much better than the guy whos just earnt 1000baht having sex for money?"--timmy

I'm not stalking you timmy, but seriously ,all you have to do ,if you're unsure of spelling is hit the check/spell button.
There is no such word as "earnt" , if you bothered to check...and it's simple to do.... The word is earned .
No big deal , but annoying and not acceptable these days when the computer you're using can correct your spelling and grammar....if you make a little effort.
But look at my grammar , the computer has allowed me to use contractions,which were not acceptable in print not so long ago!

[bucknaway]

Zabedee, why are you flooding the board with this non-Thai, non-gay related stuff?
Do you have to go to every active post and criticize the writing style of the poster while ignoring the subject matter being discussed?

If you ask me, I say you're flaming the board....

[latintopxxx]

...i believe that u r the one being exploited...$8 for a pint???.....what a rip off...at leat in soi twilight I get to watch some flesh....so stop being so "moral"....just because u wanna pay 1000bht for arse doesnt make it any less exploitive....he is still selling himself..and his dignity...and humiliating himself....the cash doesnt wash that away...

[christianpfc]

I don't know where the "vulcan" reference comes from.

I had a colleague with Asperger in England. I just thought he is strange, but then a fellow PhD-student told me he has Asperger, I looked it up on wikipedia when I read he list of signs I thought "tick, tick, tick..." (i.e. I could tick all the boxes for him). One sign is lack of sense of humor. Colleagues made jokes about him and with him, but he did not get them. You cannot accuse of lack of sense of humor.


Basically CPFC has the upper hand and all the advantages, compared to his "prey".
So did I think, but I could not turn this encounter to my advantage.

Side note: I am not so much into fucking, only if my partner initiates anal intercourse, I end up fucking him or being fucked.

You are comparing apples to oranges. In Thailand the legal minimum wage is 300 Baht, and I read on the internet that people might be paid lower.

That reminds me of a joke I made in England. A colleague had lunch (sandwich, salad, drink) and I saw the receipt (6.75 GBP or similar) and said: "What, you just paid 6.75 GBP for your lunch? In Thailand you can get laid for that!" which caused great mirth.

I don't boast, I report and ask for advice.

USSR and GDR/DDR (where I grew up) was a seller's market, i.e. there was more demand than goods. In the GDR, there was lack of cars. When you wanted to buy a car, you had to apply, and it took over 10 years (!) from application to delivery. Or you could buy a car on the black market, where people sold their cars (which they ordered 10 years before) for twice the money they paid. Can you imagine that, lack of cars? Now the situation is different, there are more goods than demand.

[timmberty]

zebedee read my post again .. you will see i said i couldnt give a shit if my spelling bothers people .. that should clue you in as to not worrying about replying to it .. infact knowing it annoys people is even more reason to do it.
its a right i have earnt !! once i have learnt how to spell as badly in thai as i do in english i shall look forward to sharing that with the hi-so's on here who think its cool to pick on spelling.
bucky would you like to borrow a step ladder ? it will help you get over yourself.

[bucknaway]

Silly boy, why would I ever want to get over myself? It's too much fun being me online :party

[latintopxxx]

no christian....u r wasting your time here...board members are all save the whale types...u know sandal wearing tree huggers...who try to cloak their guilt by over paying for whores.....

[Nirish guy]

I think you should go back and have another read at that list Christian and get your pen and note pad that you use in the go go bars out again out and see how many boxes YOU can tick off perhaps as your posts are just getting stranger and stranger these days it seems ....

[adman5000]

LatinTop said: no christian....u r wasting your time here...board members are all save the whale types...u know sandal wearing tree huggers...who try to cloak their guilt by over paying for whores

I don't fit any of these descriptions and probably many of the board members do not. But I am glad some visitors to Thailand take pride in getting cheap ass and don't show much empathy. I view it as an advantage. With a bit of empathy and a fair payment, and showing some interest in the challenges of their life, I can easily differentiate myself. Thai guys remember and spread the word when they are treated badly, but don't always tell the others who treats them above average. I have ALWAYS been treated well by treating the guys fairly. i have no trouble getting them to do exactly what I want and most will stay as long as I would like them to. As i have said before, I know many of them long after the bar job and I enjoy that. I can count on one hand the number who have not done what I asked in the past 10 years. So ultimately, I feel I receive far more than what I pay for. I just offer the advice of "show a good heart and you won't be disappointed" and that doesn't mean you have to throw 1000 baht notes at the guys. :occasion9:

[Zebedee]

CPFC/Latin aka BL , you just don't get it do you? To you it's all about the money, money money, it's all about the money! To me the money is just a means to an end, or getting my end off. That's the whole point of my travelling to LOS.After the deed is done I don't think about how much money I managed to beat the guy down to, I think about the fantastic time I just had with another/ fellow human being for a price that won't bankrupt me! Nor do I throw my money away, actually I walked out of 2 go go bars in Soi twilight recently because they wanted 300thb for a small beer. My conclusion was it simply was not value for money.
But to spend a night with a guy of my choice for 1500 or 2000 thb , now that IS value for money, indeed it is money well spent and that is using your "rationale" !
Clearly we will never agree on this,it seems to me you guys resent the Thai boys, whereas I delight in their charms.

[Zebedee]

zebedee read my post again .. you will see i said i couldnt give a shit if my spelling bothers people .. that should clue you in as to not worrying about replying to it .. infact knowing it annoys people is even more reason to do it.
its a right i have earnt !! once i have learnt how to spell as badly in thai as i do in english i shall look forward to sharing that with the hi-so's on here who think its cool to pick on spelling.
bucky would you like to borrow a step ladder ? it will help you get over yourself.

:love4: ha ha , point taken Timmy, mea culpa!

[gaymandenmark]

I agree with the last two posters.

I don't throw money around myself, but I am neither a Cheap Charlie.
Some people think that paying lesser is always the better and a turn on.

I don't want to make me better than I am, sometimes I am just a hedonist and need to fuck that small and tight ass, and I know it is a sell and leaseback situation. He gives me his hole for maybe 1 or two hours. How much it is worth? 500 TBH?
Nah, it is worth much more.

More than 20 years ago, when I was first time in Thailand, there was a book in the hotel rooms of Cafe Royal, that suggested a tip for the boy at around 700-800 baht, if I remember correctly.

After 20-25 years, talking about giving the boy, that sells his ass for 500 baht, is in my opinion, disgusting.

That said, I still have a lot of free sex in Thailand, with no money asked or involved. My exampel is when in CM two years ago. In that week I had sex with 6 different guys, and only one asked me in the morning if I "could help" him, and of course I did.

I have still contact with one of my first, for money, encounters in Thailand, he was infact the best fuck, I have ever had in my life, untill then, but he was, and still is also a really cute, sweet and nice guy. It turns me on that he still wants to be in contact with me and likes me for who I am.

[SimpleSoul]

There is always an alternative point of view.

Yaba does not always make someone crazy and ice is not always addictive. IMHO they are both no different to alcohol, except they remain illegal. The dependency and addiction issues are not driven by the substances but are driven by the individual's psychology and body's ability to handle things. After all, there are millions of alcoholics in the world.

I do recommend people try things for themselves if they really want to know and comment and not just rely on sadly misplaced propaganda. This is just my simple view of life.

Regarding the programme in question, there is too much of that 'we foreigners know better than the hapless locals' message throughout. I do so hate this type of pontificating by us foreigners, you can experience this arrogance far too often across many areas of life in Thailand and other 'hopeless' countries.

[Alex303]

So if we follow you're logic...would you recommend that someone try Crack Cocaine....before they criticize that also ?

I'm sorry but comparing Alcohol to Yabba...is madness, and YES I do have first hand experience of seeing friends sucked into this shit...so I do know what i'm talking about.

[Jellybean]

I managed to watch the programme on BBC iPlayer and found it a bit of an eye opener. Like most viewers, IтАЩm sure, I found parts of it quite distressing, especially the interview with a 14 year old addict, and the visit to a hospital ward full of zombie looking young men between the ages of 15-24. I was surprised at the estimate of 300 million yaa-b╚Гa tablets flooding into Thailand and shocked to hear that they were vanilla and chocolate flavoured to appeal to a younger customer base.

What I couldnтАЩt quite understand is the motivation behind taking yaa-b╚Гa (meth-amphetamine and caffeine). It is my understanding that most recreational drugs give a heightened sense of euphoria, but according to this programme, it just seemed to lead to aggressive and violent behaviour.

I agree with SimpleSoul when he said:

тАЬI do so hate this type of pontificating by us foreigners, you can experience this arrogance far too often across many areas of life in Thailand and other 'hopeless' countries.тАЭ

But, I disagree with the logic, as Alex303 has already pointed out, that you need to consume a drug yourself before you are able to make an informed comment on the subject.

Many years ago, whilst I was still a party animal, two friends and I went on a trip to Barcelona where we met up with two American guys, one gay and one straight. As I later found out they were there to make some sort of drug deal тАж ecstasy, I think. My female friend went off with the straight guy and my other friend and I joined the American gay guy in his 5 star hotel room.

In the room we were offered refreshments, I chose vodka and Coca Cola. He also had some drugs available, one of which was meth-amphetamine, a drug neither of us had heard of at that time. Foolishly my friend accepted the drug, despite not knowing anything about it or its effects.

I was ill at ease the whole time we were in the hotel room, my imagination ran riot visualising the room being broken into by a Spanish SWAT type police force and us all being arrested!

Well, I can now readily understand why the Thais call it the crazy drug, because my friend did indeed act bizarrely тАж crazy even and did not sleep for the next three days. He hated being out in the daylight and was like a bear with a sore head, he acted really strangely and ruined the rest of our holiday. He did seem to return to normal after those three days and, to my knowledge, he never took that particular drug again.

Personally, I think the pernicious side effects of this crazy drug should be more widely advertised than they already are.

[Dodger]

Jellybean wrote:


What I couldnтАЩt quite understand is the motivation behind taking yaa-b╚Гa (meth-amphetamine and caffeine). It is my understanding that most recreational drugs give a heightened sense of euphoria, but according to this programme, it just seemed to lead to aggressive and violent behaviour.

Your question is quite valid because the negative side effects of Yaba by far out weigh to positive effects of the high itself.

The high that the users experience can last anywhere from 6-8 hours to several days depending on their usage and provides a speed (euphoric) type of high which makes them feel blissfully happy, less inhibited and more energetic. The Nazi's first invented Yaba during WWII as a means of keeping their front line troops awake and alert in the trenches for days and sometimes weeks at a time. The down side of the drug is that it is extremely addictive, causes severe negative mood swings, can lead to chronic depression sometimes resulting in suicide.

Yaba, which is produced in uncontrolled jungle labs contains everything from battery acid to trace elements of heroin making it both lethal (more commonly after prolonged usage) as well one of the most addictive drugs on the planet. The aggressive and violent behavior occurs when a user is coming down from the Yaba high - rarely when they are on the upswing.

I've had the unfortunate experience of witnessing many young boys die from their addictions to Yaba the youngest being 14 years old and it's the most painful memory I hold in life - second to none. I sat in the Chonburi Hospital once and had a boy who had just turned 16 beg me to buy some Yaba for him as he laid their suffering on his death bed. Two days later I watched two interns wrapping his lifeless skeleton-like body in a bed sheet and all that was left was a magazine and candy bar I had given the boy just moments before he took his last breath. The following day I watched my boyfriend take his last breath as well. I watched dozens of young boys die..it killed a part of me as well. Yaba doesn't only effect the users - it effects everyone around them. My advice is to know what the signs are and avoid any and all contact with a yaba user for your own sake.

[lukylok]

Jellybean wrote:

The high that the users experience can last anywhere from 6-8 hours to several days depending on their usage and provides a speed (euphoric) type of high which makes them feel blissfully happy, less inhibited and more energetic. The Nazi's first invented Yaba during WWII as a means of keeping their front line troops awake and alert in the trenches for days and sometimes weeks at a time.
The amphetamine cocktail was used extensively by the RAF and the US forces during WWII to help their pilot fight sleep, during the long raids on Germany from british bases.
It is not a one-sided story.
I suppose it's still in the armies drug cupboard, under another name, and in all the parts of the world.

[Dodger]

Lukylok...

You're probably right, it couldn't have been those Nazis because we all know how much Hitler disliked drugs.

Personally I think the Japanese invented it.

Didn't you ever ask yourself why those smiling Kamikaze pilots always totteled to their planes wearing crash helmets???

[latintopxxx]

gaymandenmark.....sure there is a lot of free sex in Thailand....I tend to spend the days in Babylon in Bangkok and ALL the sex there is free....just good honest guys hooking up...have also cruised and been cruised in silon soi 2 bars....and picked up free sex with westerners, other asian tourists..and even a handfull of Thais....

Now...as to the going rate for commercial boys...and the fact that 20 years ago arse cost 500-700 bht...thats completly irrelevant...a TV also cost a months salary 20 years ago...now its more like a days pay...
I believe in paying the market rate...supply and demand...why on earth should I overpay....if the "boy"agrees to 500...why would I offer more ?? Please explain???
I have no guilt where buying sex is concerned....any way my kink is well known by now...would go against my nature...of max pleasure for minimum cost.

[christianpfc]

I repeat: I think 500 Baht is a fair price and 300 Baht is the low end of fair price. If you think you have to pay more, up to you.

I came across the group (there seems to be a core of five boys and some more who show up from time to time, and sometimes there is a bunch of girls around them) a few days ago on my way back home, I had to reject all demands for money (there were many, after I gave it out the last time so freely) and excuse myself to go home.

With all the advice and reflecting on our encounters, I came to the conclusion that my mistake was to enter negotiations about money for sex. It was not my intention to talk about sex or money on our first meeting (the party at the boyтАЩs house), I would have left it at letting Mee know that I like him and would like to see him agin. But when they asked me whom I like and how much, I thought тАЬNice, this is going exactly the way I want and quicker than I thought!тАЭ

Next time, I will say something like тАЬIf you want to sell your ass, you can go to Sanam Luang*. If you want to come to my room for a beer and to play internet, you are welcome.тАЭ I hope that will get all laughs on my side.

*I will use Sanam Luang instead of Saranrom, because this was the main street prostitution area. And a friend on Koh Sichang was joking about another friend тАЬHe is a Sanam Luang prostitute (р╣Вр╕кр╣Ар╕ар╕Ур╕╡р╕� �р╕Щр╕▓р╕бр╕лр╕ер╕▒р╕ з)тАЭ. So I conclude тАЬSanam Luang prostituteтАЭ is understood all over Thailand.

I had a patron/sponsor situation with another boy, who asked for money for registration at his university. Unfortunately, he turned out to be a dud in bed.

One more тАЬWalking ATMтАЭ incident that I had no place to report. In September last year, I went to Fake Pub (near Chatuchak Market). It was packed, there were few other Farang and few cute boys. One of the cute boys was smiling at me and invited me to his table. He was dancing in front of me and grabbing my crotch. I was thinking feverishly if I would go with him, because seeing him from close he was not that attractive any more.

Finally he asked me if I would contribute some money for their drinks. Now that got my brain spinning at highest speed. Money for drinks for a boy with whom I would not go to my room after disco? Maybe 100 or 200 Baht, for the sake of Thai-German friendship. While I was still thinking, he bursted out: тАЬ1000 Baht?тАЭ. тАЬSorry, cannot.тАЭ Thereupon the impression on his face changed: тАЬJust go!тАЭ and he handed my my bottle of beer that I had put on their table. Made my day and I am still chuckling when I think back about this sudden change.

I had not consumed anything from their table and and they didnтАЩt order anything while I was there. It was a clear case of тАЬmaybe we can get that Farang to pay for our partyтАЭ. Not with me! You have to look for someone else, you little bitch!

[Zebedee]

I give up CPFC, you win! I can't take it anymore, no shit....is better than bullshit!

[adman5000]

CPFC said: Next time, I will say something like тАЬIf you want to sell your ass, you can go to Sanam Luang*. If you want to come to my room for a beer and to play internet, you are welcome.тАЭ I hope that will get all laughs on my side.

*I will use Sanam Luang instead of Saranrom, because this was the main street prostitution area. And a friend on Koh Sichang was joking about another friend тАЬHe is a Sanam Luang prostitute (р╣Вр╕кр╣Ар╕ар╕Ур╕╡р╕� �р╕Щр╕▓р╕бр╕лр╕ер╕▒р╕ з)тАЭ. So I conclude тАЬSanam Luang prostituteтАЭ is understood all over Thailand.

Oh yeah, Christian, that would be the perfect thing to say! Thai guys really like a Farang saying something that suggests they are acting like a prostitute in front of their friends. I think they would find it very funny unless they did not, in which case they may give you a knife in your side rather than laughs on your side. Glad to see you have the concept of face figured out. I am also glad to see you acknowledge that negotiating a price in front of their friends may have been the wrong thing to do. It seems you learn fast. (I trust you are joking with us just as I am joking with you.)

Just remember that an ultra-dry sense of humor comes through much better in person than in print. Fortunately another kind board member has reminded us that you have a very dry sense of humour. :glasses7:

[dab69]

REALLY hoping Christian reads Adman's advice before he says anything to his friend
about being a prostitute...

[joe552]

am I the only one finding christian's quest for cheap or free sex has become incredibly boring? when he started posting his adventures once he moved to Bangkok, they were interesting and humourous. now I find them tedious (and yes, I skip through without reading most of them).

[gaymandenmark]

I repeat: I think 500 Baht is a fair price and 300 Baht is the low end of fair price. If you think you have to pay more, up to you.


And I repeat, that even if you can get laid for the price of 300 bath or 500 baht it is not fair.

Where is your self esteem and proudness?

You already told us many times, that you have problems with picking up boys for sex and even to get a BF.

Have you ever looked in the mirror and asked yourself who is the problem, you or the boys.?

Turn the question around and ask youself, what you think would be a fair price, if you were in a situation where you had to sell your body and ass?
Do you think they are all doing it for pleasure?

And how can you be so emotional shorted that you compare human beings with the car situation in GDR/DDR or Soviet Union?

With quotes like "I don't understand what is more important than being together with me for 300 or 500 baht" and "you little bitch" I have the feeling that you will never get happy in Thailand, and one day you will sit as a bitter man, like many others, asking yourself: "what went wrong, when I could have had so much fun, joy and happiness in my life?"

[timmberty]

I have the feeling that you will never get happy in Thailand, and one day you will sit as a bitter man, like many others, asking yourself: "what went wrong, when I could have had so much fun, joy and happiness in my life?"

to be fair to christian i think if when you are sat in your rocking chair thinking of happy times from days gone by, and all that comes to mind is having sex with prostitutes, then maybe he isnt the only one with problems.

[adman5000]

Joe552, No you are not the only one. I really hope that Christian is just playing with us because I feel pretty strongly about treating Thai guys properly. Their life is much different than any of us can ever imagine. A little empathy normally leads to better results.

Christian- we love your stories and detailed reports. We appreciate your dry sense of humor when we can detect it. But if you are going to stay in Thailand, you will fare much better if you:

1.Show a good heart and be fair without being used as a FARANG ATM.
2.Show empathy but not weakness.
3.Don't discuss sex and money together with their friends around.
4.Understand how FACE can rear it's head in everyday situations with the Thai AND how to best respond.(I admit, this is difficult for me.)
5.Think about how you can be viewed more as a Patron, rather than a John unless a one-time quickie is all you want.
6.Relax and enjoy your adventures with the Thai guys (and of course tell us about them.)

My advice is offered with the best of intentions as I am quite sure you are a very decent guy. Good luck and keep writing about your adventures. Many of us would love the opportunity to be doing what you are doing. Reading about them is the next best thing. Thanks for doing it. :glasses7:

[gaymandenmark]

I have the feeling that you will never get happy in Thailand, and one day you will sit as a bitter man, like many others, asking yourself: "what went wrong, when I could have had so much fun, joy and happiness in my life?"

to be fair to christian i think if when you are sat in your rocking chair thinking of happy times from days gone by, and all that comes to mind is having sex with prostitutes, then maybe he isnt the only one with problems.

Timm I you have read some of my post, you will know, that what I think about happy times, is not all about having sex with prostitutes.

In fact there are many other reasons why I still travel to Thailand.

[Magnum]

am I the only one finding christian's quest for cheap or free sex has become incredibly boring? when he started posting his adventures once he moved to Bangkok, they were interesting and humourous. now I find them tedious (and yes, I skip through without reading most of them).

It would be boring to read that he is now with boyfriend and settles down. I enjoy to read his adventures a lot and without doubt he is a great asset to this board. Thais will not understand/appreciate his humour, he is so different.

[bucknaway]

I don't know what everyone expects from Christian. I'm just glad he is sharing his adventures with us all. There is something to learn from his tales and if we think he is making a mistake then just wait and he will be telling us the results of his actions in his next post.

[timmberty]

yes gmd
for some reason christain seems to have become board enemy number 1.
i believe everything christian writes, having sat with him and watched him finish his plate, when he says he doesnt like to see food wasted, well take it from me a dish washer is not needed to clean the plate after.
if you read his posts when he is in go go bars and offs boys he pays the going rate and to me he treats the guys well, even taking them on trips the next day.

his talk of 300 - 500 baht is for street boys mainly, i see no problem with that, after all its probably better to earn 500bt for an hour laying down with the option to go out and do it all over again an hour or so later.

what about the poor fuckers who spend 8 hours earning the same amount working in a 7/11 sure its their choice to do that, same as its the prossies choice to sell his ass .. i know which of the 2 is the easy option.

joe, christain writes often what he does from day to day .. sure it gets boring, same as what is the going rate for rent boys ..
whats the best gay hotel in pattaya .. whats the best gogo bar .. where's the best place to change money etc etc
its the same thing time ofter time .. very few threads dont get boring after a page or two ..
unlike many on here at least we know christain is telling it as it is, and not making up loads of bullshit.

[joe552]

timmberty, I've never doubted that what christian posts is true and an accurate record of his adventures. what I'm finding boring is his apparent repeated failures to get what he professes to want - cheap or free sex in Bangkok. even at my advanced years, I doubt it would take me an hour to find a willing boy to have fun with if I were in christian's position of living and working there. there's been plenty of advice offered on this and other boards over a couple of months now - but he doesn't seem to learn anything from them. so to me, it's become a waste of time.

I wish him well, but I think he's wasting a great opportunity, that many of us would love to have.

[latintopxxx]

...maybe...just maybe...he finds some of the advice given hard to stomach...after all most board members seem to think that 1000bht is the absolute minimum (or else u get accused of being an exploitive rapist) for a piece of arse...whilst us experienced whore frequenters know that it can be had regularly for a lot less......so if this "advice"....is wrong...why should he believe the rest of the drivel.....let him make his own mistakes...he will eventually land on his feet...

[gaymandenmark]

Well from his posts it seems he is quite frustrated about his sexlife or the lack of it.

I find it very surprising, when all other people I know, travelling or living in Thailand can have all the sex they wants and when they want it.

We can only wonder if it is because of his personality or the advices he gets, that the going rate is 500 baht and as low as 300 baht.
BTW why stop at 300 baht, the miminum wage is 300 baht??, and it only takes 1 hour to be fucked, 100 Baht would be a fair price. :laughing3:

[SimpleSoul]

Great posts.

I still maintain that to really comment you need to try it, that also goes for crack cocaine. I have no interest to try crack, for any reason. I mean some things like hard drugs, murder, rape do not need to be tried BUT this lesser stuff should be to properly know for yourself.

I am sorry, but alcohol is just as bad a killer - it is just legal. Every untimely death is abhorrent.

For balance, I think we should recognise that of the several sad deaths reported here we should compare, in terms of numbers, to the 300m-400m pills of yaba being produced, I think annually. So, again, with all respect, the numbers should be considered. I would remind everyone to also think about the number of deaths related to alcohol, all over the world.

My point, and this also addresses the crap that gets put into the illegal substances, is to make all the so-called 'soft' drugs legal and as freely available and regulated as alcohol and cigarettes. This might reduce deaths because of the crap which is included in the unregulated illegal substances.

As always this is just my simple point of view but it is is my somewhat informed opinion. Lastly, as with everything, too much of a good thing isn't good for you.

Smile.

[Surfcrest]

My point, and this also addresses the crap that gets put into the illegal substances, is to make all the so-called 'soft' drugs legal and as freely available and regulated as alcohol and cigarettes. This might reduce deaths because of the crap which is included in the unregulated illegal substances.

Unfortunately, some of these soft drugs (like marijuana for example) create other problems....especially on the road.

Police already have their hands full, trying to control the amount of people driving while under the influence of alcohol. Ramping that program up, to also control drivers under the influence of marijuana is probably going to require more complex testing than say a breathalyzer. Mix that in with the young drivers on the road, the fact that marijuana makes you less attentive or any other negative influences is has on one's ability to drive safely....and you'll have roads that are a whole lot more dangerous.

I have no idea how other "soft drugs" out there affect someone's ability to drive, but I would think for the sake of us sober folks driving round out there.....it would be nice to know that there isn't a likely hood that the car approaching isn't going to cross the line and crash into us head on....just so other folks can enjoy the right to consume soft drugs legally.

Surfcrest

[Nirish guy]

Surf your argument doesn't stand I'm afraid as whether people can take soft drugs legally or illegally it seems they still are doing so, I could make a joke about the risk being much less as the only known accidents caused by soft drugs are on roads directly linking houses and doughnut shops but I won't as no doubt someone will have a sense of humour failure and I couldn't be bothered listening to it. however on a serious note then the police do and are already routinely testing for alcohol and drugs at many roadside tests ( certainly here in the UK) and the drugs test is actually simpler than the drink test and can range anywhere from the police officer looking at the eyes of the person and judging the dilatation of their pupils with a card they have been issued with to them using a machine not dissimilar to the alcohol testing one to do a roadside test. And what would you rather have, a police force testing and catching people for driving under the influence of drugs or ( as was the case for a while there) forces who were almost turning a blind eye to the issue as people didn't want to face up to the reality that some stupid irresponsible people are already driving whilst under the influence of many different types drugs ( both legal and illegal) So, much better that the police are equipped to find and catch them and THEN the roads will be safer, not just hoping that it doesn't happen, as we, certainly again in the UK and probably in most other Countries now are long past that point of no return I'm afraid.

And also I agree with Simple soul about alcohol being equally as bad / a much worse drug than some others out there once you break down the numbers down etc, but again to be honest as I couldn't be bothered having that discussion in general on here as ( and I mean no offence to anyone by this) but unless you're speaking with others who are perhaps a little informed about the subject and the actual numbers of arrests, incidents, accidents, deaths etc etc involving drugs versus alcohol, i find it's generally just a waste of each others time as all one side gets is a closed minded, strong, knee jerk anti drugs "no matter what" message and all the person giving that opinion "believes they hear" is a "oh anything should be allowed to go anywhere 24/7 "pro drugs" message, which certainly ISN'T what I would ever suggest or propose when having that discussion ( nor I'm guessing Simple soul either) so personally I just find it just easier not to bother entering that whole discussion area in the first place rather than waste each others time. To my it's a bit like trying to convince the Christian right that it's "ok to be gay", one might personally believe they are correct about that and maybe even have lots of proof and empirical evidence to back that view up but without the open mind at the other end it's a bit of a waste of time even bothering and life's to short I find so I jus don't bother anymore ( oh and I dont mean you personally in any of the above Surf, just people in general)

[blazer]

Oh, I think Christian will be just fine.

What an experience for him to be living and working in Bangkok. And he has plenty of time to experiment and play the field. He has stated it may take him 5-50 years to find his ideal. So he has plenty of time to look and learn.

Have traveled many of those streets and alleys in Bangkok and Pattaya. So it is exciting to here about the experiences of others traveling the same ground.

There have been some helpful comments, but most of the criticism is unwarranted. He will find his own way.

Keep posting. I enjoy hearing about your experiences!

[blazer]

Have tried, but unable to watch this in USA.

Anyone know how?

[Surfcrest]

Nirish, I donтАЩt see this as a question on soft drugs. Whether people use street drugs on a recreational basis, the physical impacts etcтАжI could go on and on with the other argument.

I look at this more in terms of rights. I live in a city that believes in allowing people to make their own life choices, no matter what they are and looks at the question in terms of protecting oneтАЩs right to use drugsтАж.rather than protecting the rights of those who also live in this city and whose rights and tax dollars are impacted by those who use drugs.

Whether itтАЩs gambling, or drugsтАжor even alcohol, for that matterтАж.there is going to be a cost. Lives will be impacted, health care dollars are going to be spentтАжmesses will be made and need to be cleaned up*.

Almost all of us here in Vancouver smoke pot. The city reeks of it. ItтАЩs the provincial cash crop. The fact that it is still not technically legal creates a barrierтАж.enough, to act as a deterrent around areas that require oneтАЩs attention, like operating a crane over a busy sidewalk, or docking a Ferry or driving a carтАжтАжwhere other peopleтАЩs lives are at stake.

Do you think, if we legalized itтАжwould it be any cheaper than it is now? Would it be any easier to get? No? So whatтАЩs in it for the pot smoker? WhatтАЩs in it for anybodyтАж.really?

Surfcrest

[Zebedee]

I don't know what everyone expects from Christian. I'm just glad he is sharing his adventures with us all. There is something to learn from his tales and if we think he is making a mistake then just wait and he will be telling us the results of his actions in his next post.

Jesus Christ on a bike! Are you fucking mentally retarded or what? Listen, do us all a favour "muscle Mary " stick a dumb bell up your arse!

[christianpfc]

Happy Ending (getting laid locally)

I didnтАЩt want to drag the old thread into boredom, but an encounter yesterday showed that there is still hope for me. And there are some new observations.

The happy ending is not with Mee, I think he is a lost cause and I am losing interest in him and there is no second chance for a first impression (and the first impression at the party probably was: the cheap foreigner who wants to get his hands into my pants). Nonetheless, I hope I can have another party with the boys (funded by my money), I just have to make sure the money is not diverted into other activities, as has been the case last time.

The happy ending was with P, a boy I have been chatting with on gayromeo for over two months. I was close to the point of thinking that either he or I is/am not really interested in meeting, or there are evil forces in the universe that donтАЩt want us to meet. But yesterday, he was online and I had a day in (one or two days of the week, I donтАЩt go out far, I either stay in my room or go out locally, up to 5 km). We exchanged some messages, he wrote he is not looking for sex, only for talking (I had such cases before, so I know that this can lead anywhere). We made an appointment at 21:30 at a 7/11 near his place. I arrived 21:35, he was already waiting for me.

I could not suppress going through my list (requirement for a boyfriend) and within a second I identified body hair as the critical point. No facial hair (shaven?) but I could see hair on is upper tights. Hair above knees, or facial hair, is a good indicator for hair elsewhere. Dressed attractively, good body shape, cute face.

We walked about 15minutes to a bar/restaurant (boys who can walk more than 5 minutes get brownie points, we had to skip two places because the music was too loud). First we sat inside, but the band was starting to play so it was not possible to have a conversation. We moved outside and took just our glasses, a waitress brought the table with the drinks to our new place. P tipped the waitress 20 Baht.

Important observation: I read that Thais donтАЩt tip, but thatтАЩs not true. Last week I had two Thai friends for dinner at a restaurant near my place, I paid the bill (842 Baht) and took all the change (didnтАЩt leave a tip). One of my friends put 20 Baht on the tray as a tip. Did that make me look like a cheap Charlie or just show lack of cultural understanding? But I really read that tipping is uncommon in Thai restaurants! Now I know better. As I said before, I am strongly against tipping, but when in Rome do as the Romans do. I have to observe (or ask my friends) to get an idea where and how much to tip. I wish the person who brought the evil of tipping into the world a slow and painful death, a malignant cancer would be my first choice.

Everything went fine, P can hold a conversation in English, we talked and drank (and I had dinner) from 21:45 to 23:15. Neither of us used his mobile phone. (And I did not take any notes, but kept everything in memory.) I paid the bill, 460 Baht, and left 20 Baht tip. P likes foreigners more than Thais, because they have white skin, long nose and are tall. He does not go to gay discos and saunas. (ThatтАЩs not the first time I hear this, and more and more I come to the conclusion that the type of Thais who go to discos and saunas frequently are not the type I would want for boyfriend). He said he received messages on gayromeo тАЬHow much do you want for sex?тАЭ тАЬ5000 BahtтАЭ тАЬOh, sorry, too expensiveтАЭ. (Does that mean I saved 5000 Baht?)

P invited me to his room. Another 15 minutesтАЩ walk. On the way, he took me aside for a kiss and some hand holding. The room is small, the ceiling is low and when I took off my shirt P warned me to mind the fan, he hurt his hands in the fan before. The standard of the room is similar to mine, the rent is 2000 Baht, but by square meter and considering his room has no aircon, he pays about twice of what I pay (3000 Baht, more than twice the size, aircon). You are probably more interested what we did in his room and why I took off my shirt? We did not look at his stamp collection. But after not looking at his stamp collection, I had a look in his underwear drawer, looks slightly promising.

Next week I will invite him to dinner and into my room (not to look at my stamp collection). The restaurant I have in mind, I have dined there with at least three other boys before. I have to listen carefully if the waiters tell him about the friends I took there before.

Reflecting back, I had four boys from my area (up to 5 km) in my room during the last four months, and I had sex with three of them. They were not exactly my type, but they managed to talk me into sex in my room! All of them decent people, no complaints about character or manners. Three of them fluent in English. None of them is into the gay scene (discos, saunas). This shows that my complaining is at highest level, in Europe I wouldnтАЩt have any boy in my room and no monthly trips to Pattaya or weekly trips to Saranrom.

A welcome change from previous problems. Not only with Thai friends, I have two Farangs friends in Bangkok I want to meet, but we had to postpone appointments for weeks for various reasons. And an appointment with Black Lady two weeks ago failed completely because she was held up considerably longer than expected, I returned without having met her, after walking for two hours in Sukhumvit. But I donтАЩt get bored in Sukhumvit area at night and I made an amazing discovery, I will have to go back soon.

And another positive outlook: I will go to Chachoengsao this weekend to meet a Camfrog acquaintance from last year and do some sightseeing.

[christianpfc]

Let me add some totally useless information: when yaba is transliterated into Russian, it is declined like a Russian feminine noun (I will spare you the declension in 6 cases singular and plural, as I'm too lazy to switch to a cyrillic keyboard and didn't touch-type Russian for years and therefore forget which letter is on which key.)
I'm a native Russian speaker and I don't know such noun.

I read an article in a publication about Pattaya in Russian language, and I clearly remember it contained: ╤П╨▒╨░ ╤П╨▒╤Г ╤П╨▒╤Л ╤П╨▒╨╡ (Yaba written in cyrillic letters in four different cases).

[christianpfc]

I was surprised at the estimate of 300 million yaa-b╚Гa tablets flooding into Thailand and shocked to hear that they were vanilla and chocolate flavoured to appeal to a younger customer base.

That is indeed discomforting (as if the normal yaba isn't discomforting enough), it's sick. But it brings me to idea that there should be kind of placebo yaba, that just makes you feel unwell, without a high. That would deter people from ever trying yaba again.

The mere smell of a cigarette deters me from smoking and just makes me change my location so I don't have to bear it any more.

[Zebedee]

"200Thb to dart you up the arse,bahhaa! 252 thb for
a dart up your arse bahhaa " ! 253 bahhaa .

[bucknaway]

"200 punters to dart you up the arse,bahhaa! 252 punters for
a dart up your arse bahhaa " ! 253 bahhaa .

Once you decide to sell your azz the market rules can come into play.

(Note, I modified the above quote)

[scottish-guy]

[attachment=0:wz171h07]ItsMeHeart!.jpg[/attachment:wz171h07]

[Zebedee]

"200 punters to dart you up the arse,bahhaa! 252 punters for
a dart up your arse bahhaa " ! 253 bahhaa .

Once you decide to sell your azz the market rules can come into play.

(Note, I modified the above quote)


Bucky,once you log in here, the dumbells come in to play!

[Zebedee]

The use of the phrase "Darting up the Arse" seems very familar ......................now, if I could only remember the name of the forum where I saw that phrase before, and the ID of the user ........


[attachment=0:2xa1l26e]ItsMeHeart!.jpg[/attachment:2xa1l26e]

SG, I'm deeply disappointed ,are you suggesting that I'm uncle Albert ,and I accidentally used that term ( dart etc) and "gave the game away". Oh c'mon give me credit for being at least of average intelligence!
If you look back on this thread ,where I replied to CPFC I used the term AND credited it to Uncle Albert! When he used it first, I thought it was very funny,guess I still do!!
For the record I'm not uncle Albert . Tsk tsk.

[scottish-guy]

No, No - I'm not suggesting you're Uncle Albert - just having a little fun - tho I admit I didn't see your earlier "credit"

:hello2:

[Zebedee]

well i'm real as in i'm a person...and i have one handle only...dont post under any diferent names....and i'm real as in my reports of what i get up to (whether anyone likes it or not) are real....and factual....I'm real as in I have a mind of my own and dont accept universal rules like 1000bht for short time...yeah right!!!....


Latin! What happened here? What's that gibberish? Are you for real? :sign5:

[Zebedee]

No, No - I'm not suggesting you're Uncle Albert - just having a little fun - tho I admit I didn't see your earlier "credit"

:hello2:

I thought so! While I found his darting etc was funny at the time, the constant use of "gormless " etc etc is a very poor follow up. I'm beginning to think he was a one hit wonder.

[scottish-guy]

Or a "one-trick pony" - although I hesitate to use the word pony in case Latintopxxx creams in his pants.

:evil4:

[Zebedee]

Or a "one-trick pony" - although I hesitate to use the word pony in case Latintopxxx creams in his pants.

:evil4:

:sign5: it's like animal farm with Latin, first he rides them like a pony,then makes go down on all fours and bark like a dog! All the time they have to smile as if their enjoying it. Yes Latin you're one sick puppy!

[adman5000]

Christian- I choose to ignore all the unrelated gibberish that were posted as "replies" to your great post. I guess some get their jollies by purposely hijacking a post. Sad.
It sounds like you are modifying your approach and getting justly rewarded. I commend you. No notes, no Cheap Charlie, no money discussion. Wow, I think I can now turn off my advice (which I am sure many others will be grateful. :hello2: )

I am really glad you have such an opportunity to go on such an adventure, have a good discussion over a meal, and even accomplish the ultimate (for you), get a peek in his underwear drawer!! (By the way exactly how did you accomplish this- was it on a list you went through with him or was it a furtive leap to the other side of the room and a quick yank (of the drawer) while he busied himself in the bathroom?- inquiring minds want to know.[attachment=0:19jmyc7w]drawer.jpg[/attachment:19jmyc7w]


We are also glad you got to "not look at his stamp collection" but hope you did get to get your stamp licked. :tongue3:

[latintopxxx]

zebedee....strange u use the word "sick"...u do know thats the new "cool".....anyway always thought that a shirt lifter would be slightly more broad minded....at least i get lots...

[christianpfc]

I entered the date with no expectations (that's the safest way to avoid any disappointment). I didn't take notes, but I had to keep everything in mind to write down later!

The underwear he wore was promising, but came off far too quick. Before leaving, I just asked where he keeps his underwear and if I can have a look.

[joe552]

christian, I'm really glad you finally got laid locally and for free, but your inspection of his underwear drawer just seems creepy to me.

[Zebedee]

zebedee....strange u use the word "sick"...u do know thats the new "cool".....anyway always thought that a shirt lifter would be slightly more broad minded....at least i get lots...

I may be a shirt lifter Latin, but you're a saddle tramp......Hi- Ho- Silver away! :laughing3:

[Jellybean]

christian, I'm really glad you finally got laid locally and for free, but your inspection of his underwear drawer just seems creepy to me.
Well, it could have been worse Joe, he might have asked if he could sniff them!

[joe552]

how do we know that he didn't, Jellybean? at this stage, nothing would surprise me

[scottish-guy]

In the scheme of things, isn't an underwear fetish pretty mild?

Christian has already told us that he likes certain types of underwear to be worn - therefore I really don't see anything "creepy" about asking to see the guy's underwear drawer.

It hardly compares with some of the way-out fetishes to be found in Pattaya - like the farang guy I heard about who sits around BT waiting for boys who are willing to **** in a bowl for his afternoon snack.

[Jellybean]

... like the farang guy I heard about who sits around BT waiting for boys who are willing to **** in a bowl for his afternoon snack
Yuck! ThatтАЩs twice IтАЩve felt grossed out today Scottish guy! The first time being as I watched the video clip, posted by PeterUK, of the walrus pleasuring himself тАж and just as I was about to have my breakfast this morning. :-(


In the scheme of things, isn't an underwear fetish pretty mild?
The mention of having an underwear fetish reminded me of an incident that happened about 6 or 7 years ago at a house I rented in Hua Hin. A local bar boy, whom IтАЩd been with before, came round to see me one night. He showered first and I went into the bathroom to shower next. But as soon as I walked in, this overpowering and highly stimulating smell hit me. The boy had left his underwear hanging on the towel rail. They were an instant aphrodisiac and I couldnтАЩt resist a closer inspection. They were very sexually arousing тАж honestly, I could have had sex there and then without bothering to join the boy in the bedroom! :-)

Then I thought, how long has he been wearing the underwear? Days? Weeks? IтАЩve never smelt anything like it before or since. If I had been a more outgoing person I might have asked to buy his underwear, but I didnтАЩt. Now that probably would have constituted and merited the description creepy!

I wonder therefore, is it the musty, male pheromone smell that constitutes and brings joy to an underwear fetish? (I am not suggesting this applies in ChristianPFCтАЩs case, I think he is more concerned with design and colour.) If so, then I can well understand why someone would be an underwear fetish.

[scottish-guy]

Well I can't speak for Christian obviously - but I suspect he would insist on pristine underwear (briefs only, preferably white), and freshly laundered (if not straight out of the packet). However, I'm willing to be corrected.

[joe552]

scotty, please tell me you haven't been poking around in christian's drawers?

[christianpfc]

I prefer fresh and clean underwear, style and colors are important. Odors are not important when I have sex. It's only seeing and touching the underwear.

I am not alone with my underwear fetish. I recently contacted an acquaintance from two years ago. He now lives in Hat Yai but sometimes goes to Bangkok. He asked some specific questions about my underwear and wants to fuck me while both of us keep our underwear on. I am happy to oblige (although I prefer to finally take the underwear off).

But now that you beat me to the smell: a friend of mine likes masculine armpit smell. My smell isn't strong enough for her. I don't use deo, I don't shower before I meet her. What more can I do to make her happy? (Yes, there is a story like the Saranrom trannies threesome and foursome between the lines, unfortunately I cannot share it here.)

[scottish-guy]

... masculine armpit smell...

You mean stale sweat - let's call a spade a spade :kap:

[Surfcrest]

But now that you beat me to the smell: a friend of mine likes masculine armpit smell. My smell isn't strong enough for her. I don't use deo, I don't shower before I meet her. What more can I do to make her happy? (Yes, there is a story like the Saranrom trannies threesome and foursome between the lines, unfortunately I cannot share it here.)
There's a very easy solution to your problem. Find someone who smells like the masculine armpit smell you are looking for.
Ask to put their shirt on. The bacteria will jump from their shirt to your body and then....voil├а...you've got masculine armpit smell.

Surfcrest

[Nirish guy]

(Yes, there is a story like the Saranrom trannies threesome and foursome between the lines, unfortunately I cannot share it here.)


To hell with the B.O fetish for now I want to hear the story that you think is unshareable as if even YOU think it's unshareable then it MUST be a CRACKER !! :-).

[anonone]

I was thinking the same thing....that story must be a doozy.

C'mon Christian. Don't get shy on us now.....

[timmberty]

sadly christians stories are becoming more and more boring ,,, even more sadly here he is with yet another story exactly the same as the rest ... and all you lot who call him boring want to know all about it !!!
just how much do you need ?

[joe552]

if it's the one about the one-legged lesbian dwarf, I've heard it already

[timmberty]

and even if it isnt joe .. ive no doubt it will be very much the same .
but some people get off on reading his stories.... hence the fact the donkey fucker is still allowed to post on here.
funny really ... 20 people >... christian give up you are boring now.
christain .... i have a story i've not told you yet
20 people ... christian ... you must tell us ...
you couldnt make it up

Everyone is allowed to post here, especially those providing some interesting reading.
Surfcrest

[bucknaway]

Who cares if a reader no longer cares to read a post by a specific poster? Just move on and let the rest of us enjoy. There is no need to flood a post telling all the other readers how bored you are reading the post. If you were so bored you would not be in the post let alone replying....

I say thank you to Christian and his willingness to share.

[adman5000]

Thanks for saying what you did Bucknaway because I totally agree with you on this one. In fact I will soon start a post on a related topic.

[timmberty]

Everyone is allowed to post here, especially those providing some interesting reading.


what the hell has this been added to my post for ???
i am pointing out that many people have started to call christains posts boring, i have never said i do. you may not have noticed it, you only seem to look at mine, and make your hi-so add ons

as for the donkey fucker, you may find over 1000 posts about fucking boys like a donkey still fresh and exciting, you may also find your are in a club of one.
and who would i be sending a p.m. too ?
as for everyone being allowed to post here!! really? even those you have banned?
another post that is getting deleted ... time to move back across the road i think.

[Nirish guy]

For the sake of accuracy (as I'd hate Latin to be getting a bad name) I do believe it was in fact ponies he was riding and not donkeys - hell if he starts riding donkeys next I could never go for a ride on a donkey on Blackpool beach ever again without being mental scared for life!

[scottish-guy]

For the sake of taking the piss - Gaymandenmark posted several times that Latintopxxx was riding the boy "like a goat"!

So that's ponies, donkeys, and goats!

The word "kinky" doesn't even begin to cover it.



:wav:

[timmberty]

hence the fact the donkey fucker is still allowed to post on here.


Everyone is allowed to post here, especially those providing some interesting reading.
Surfcrest


this part of my post has been ruled as one of the two baddest things that have ever been posted on here since surfcrest took over the board ..
it has resulted in me getting a second warning !!!

ive no idea how to put a poll on the board. but i ask surfcrest to do it for me ... i would be intrested to find out how many people think this line is the worst line in the history of the board a.n.

[Nirish guy]

I fear you're missing the point Tim as whether everyone thinks it's bad or not (I'm not quite sure what you're asking though, are you referring to the harsh unnecessary personal insult you chose to use or the "this is why he's still here" implying there was some underlying reason that Surf still allows someone who's been posting here for a long time without incident to continue doing so or just about a / the post in general, I'm a bit confused ?) - but anyway as I was saying it's all fairly irrelevant what we ( or you) think as the bottom line is of course ( for all of us) is that it's Surf's board to do with as he pleases and if he decides to give you or any of use a yellow or red card that is his right - then as to whether the person he does that to decides to listen and heed that or not is of course a whole other matter, but a public vote on who thinks what ( just like every other board out) to second guess the owner is a fairly pointless exercise I would imagine - and lets face it if 20 of us all agreed "yeah that was terrible" ( and I'm not commenting on that either way by the way) would it change you opinion on anything one iota - I really doubt it so again what would be the point in even bothering to reply.

[timmberty]

i wouldnt expect anyone to reply in the posative ...
i could go back thru the last year and find many posts whereby scotty/bucky/smiles and no doubt a few others have said the same thing about other people, and nothing has been mentioned about it by the board owner.
it seems if you are one of his 'buddies' its ok to post what you want, if not then he threatens to throw you off his board ... kinda reminds me of someone else. my board my rules .. pretty pointless have a rules and regulations thread but hey ho
plenty more fish in the sea.

[Zebedee]

For the sake of accuracy (as I'd hate Latin to be getting a bad name) I do believe it was in fact ponies he was riding and not donkeys - hell if he starts riding donkeys next I could never go for a ride on a donkey on Blackpool beach ever again without being mental scared for life!



For the sake of taking the piss - Gaymandenmark posted several times that Latintopxxx was riding the boy "like a goat"!

So that's ponies, donkeys, and goats!

The word "kinky" doesn't even begin to cover it.



:wav:

For the sake of fantasy....it's "All Creatures Great and Small"!

[Alex303]

SimpleSoul have you ever seen what happens to your average joe when they get hooked on Crack ? If you had I honestly don't think you'd suggest such a thing...

About 10 years ago a good (straight) friend who had a very well paid job got caught up with a girl who 'dabbled' in the stuff, after a few weeks he was basically working flat out in the week...then at the weekends he would head off to some seedy crack joint near Kings Cross to basically spend all his hard earnt wages (his nice shiny brand new Golf GTI ended up sold as part of some arrangement to help maintain his fix). Monday morning would come around and he had next to nothing left in the bank and so the cycle started again.

He got off it in the end with a LOT of help from friends & family...but it was very unpleasant for all involved.

Its one of the most vile drugs on the face of this planet...I would definitely not recommend you 'try it before commenting'

p.s. what's happened to this thread anyway...seems to be merged with Christian's love life....bit odd



Great posts.

I still maintain that to really comment you need to try it, that also goes for crack cocaine. I have no interest to try crack, for any reason. I mean some things like hard drugs, murder, rape do not need to be tried BUT this lesser stuff should be to properly know for yourself.

I am sorry, but alcohol is just as bad a killer - it is just legal. Every untimely death is abhorrent.

[SimpleSoul]

Alex303, perhaps I expressed myself badly; sorry.

I thought that I had written that my suggestion to try it for yourself was limited ONLY to the so-called soft drugs. I wrote that I have no interest to experience crack cocaine and other hard drugs as I would lump them together with murder and rape which, in general, people do not need to experience to have a view on - this is where I draw the line. Sorry for any confusion.

Personally, I remain of the view that soft drugs and alcohol are somewhat similar both in their advantages and disadvantages. I would recommend legalisation to ensure quality and appropriate control. These are merely my points of view; I do not pretend I have a monopoly on being right.

I certainly do not advocate any movement on hard drugs.

[loke]

dodger stop being over dramatic...havent you heard..... "the customer is always right"..... it's the principle we should always use as customers....I'm paying...now please me....
That's the American mentality which you can't always apply whilst abroad. I was born in USSR and there it was the seller who was always right. I've seen customers being abused and even punched on one occasion. So latin I would suggest you to keep your wisdom at home.

So that explains why some Russians in Pattaya seem to have an attitude problem . Or maybe they are just scared to get punched in the face .

[loke]

sadly christians stories are becoming more and more boring ,,, even more sadly here he is with yet another story exactly the same as the rest ... and all you lot who call him boring want to know all about it !!!
just how much do you need ?

I strongly disagree with you , I am happy that Christian shares his adventures in Bangkok with us .

You probably live a dull life yourself . And Christian spend a lot of baht on his boys , sometimes its only 500 baht for a street boy , other times he pay 2000 and drinks and dinner too , so I dont look at Christian as a Cheap Charlie. He is just following the local customs where he lives.

And enjoy a lot of sex every week from what I read .

-

[Alex303]

SimpleSoul...no problem, you just hit a raw nerve that's all.

For what its worth...I actually do believe in personal responsibility insofar as soft drugs are concerned...I am not a card carrying 'anti-everything' conservative type (far from it).



Alex303, perhaps I expressed myself badly; sorry.

I thought that I had written that my suggestion to try it for yourself was limited ONLY to the so-called soft drugs. I wrote that I have no interest to experience crack cocaine and other hard drugs as I would lump them together with murder and rape which, in general, people do not need to experience to have a view on - this is where I draw the line. Sorry for any confusion.

Personally, I remain of the view that soft drugs and alcohol are somewhat similar both in their advantages and disadvantages. I would recommend legalisation to ensure quality and appropriate control. These are merely my points of view; I do not pretend I have a monopoly on being right.

I certainly do not advocate any movement on hard drugs.

[SimpleSoul]

No worries Alex.

If people do not want to read what Christian has to say then move on. Why be negative? Why waste everyone's time with negativity. If you disagree with something simply challenge it or use humour to have fun but just being negative seems pointless. Feels sour.