Arabs and Pattaya

[Manforallseasons]

I've had the opportunity to speak with many Iraqis here, there stories are heartbreaking. They are here mainly here to escape the day to day carnage in their country. One told me he was in jail when Sudam was in power, he actually loves Georg Bush Jr. I found them anxious to speak and incrdedabley hospitable.

[bucknaway]

When the Iraq war was in full swing, I was in Phuket at the Gogo bar.
A guy spoke up and got my attention between shows and asked where I was from? I told him USA and he informed me he was from Iraq and then offered to buy me a drink.

[a447]

I remember meeting some Arab guys in a gay cinema in Ueno, Tokyo years ago. It was the time when the government allowed them to enter Japan to do all the dirty jobs the Japanese didn't want to do and the main street was full of them. Some of them found their way down the alley to the cinema. What can I say? They were extremely well-endowed - quite a handful - but a little too hairy for my liking. I had a lot of fun, as they were very willing indeed.
I often lust after the arabs I see in Sunee.

[arsenal]

This is not political forum but I am pleased the first two posters above have said what they did. I wholeheartedly agreed with the Iraq war and not for supposed WOMDs. Anything that replaced the horrific regime of Saddam was to be welcomed.

[scottish-guy]

Well, I metaphorically held my tongue when I saw this subject last night - but now that Arsenal has opened that can of worms I feel free to comment.

The handful of Iraqis encountered in gay areas of Pattaya and Phuket who are apparently keen to cheer-lead for George Bush Jr and buy drinks all round to toast the US are extremely lucky to have got out of Iraq and, I would suggest, far from representative.

The unfortunate fact of the matter is that following the US-led ILLEGAL Iraq war there are 100,000-200,000 dead Iraqi civilians (and that's the LOW end of the estimates) who are not in a position to cheer lead for the imbecilic ex- US President or to buy anybody a drink.

At least Arsenal is honest enough to pin his support on an illegal war aim (regime change) and seems to have distanced himself from the tissue of lies concocted by Bush and Blair over non-existent WMDs.

[Oliver]

I agree with scottish-guy.
I restrict my political postings to Baht Stop but I am not going to allow anyone to get away with such outrageous comments on any site. The invasion of Iraq resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths of innocent people; it led to torture and sexual abuse by US personnel in Abu Ghraib and hatred for the US across the world- a hatred of which you must be blind not to recognise.
And the results of that invasion and occupation continue to this day, with war continuing in Iraq due to the deliberate stirring-up of religious tensions by the failing US occupation. And in Syria, too. Then there's the colonisation of Palestine by US backed thugs.

Not only that but the US may have won a battle but it lost the war, just as it did in Vietnam and is about to do so in Afghanistan; it brought to power a Shia government that backs Iran. To this day there are a million refugees, children being born with hideous physical abnormalities due to the US using plutonium- enriched shells in its two massacres of the citizens of Fallujah and unnumbered fatherless families and disabled children.

It was all on the basis of lies.

[scottish-guy]

[youtube:2tlac3wa]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrdFFCnYtbk[/youtube:2tlac3wa]

[Manforallseasons]

No doubt the war left Iraq worse off than before it.

Scotty this is for you!


BBC News - Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies in Tripoli
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18137896 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18137896)
May 20, 2012 - Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies at home in Tripoli, nearly three years after he was controversially freed from a Scottish prison.

[arsenal]

Oliver: Illegal? Saddam and his regime were wanted for so many crimes that someone, at somepoint had to arrest them. Anyway who is to say what is legal and illegal? And please don't suggest the United Nations. That discredited body currently has Angola, Malaysia, Qatar, Thailand, Equador, Guatamala and Peru sitting comfortably on the Human Rights Council. impressive huh?

Scotty: You are right about the numbers of dead. But millions had already died under Saddams' wars (plural) use of chemical weapons, torture and daily general brutality.

If Wales were an independent country and this was happening there you wouldn't think twice about an invasion to put a stop to it. Indeed I would suggest that both you and Oliver would demand it.

[Wim888]

I suppose this is NOT supposed to be a political forum, but I cannot hold my tongue.
I agree with Scottish Guy and Oliver. I am European, and wish that the U.S. would stop interfering with and invading other countries.

[scottish-guy]

Sorry MFAS, I don't see the point of that link at all - Megrahi was not Iraqi!!

I can only assume that the reason you posted it was that a terminal cancer victim did not die quickly enough for your liking. Do you prefer vengence over compassion, is that it?

Quite apart from the fact that Megrahi was almost certainly the victim of a miscarriage of justice - as this father of one of the victims has dedicated his life to exposing.

http://www.lockerbietruth.com/

Arsenal - initiating a war/invasion for the purposes of regime change is illegal under the UN Charter, that is precisely why the WMD fantasy was fabricated to provide a legal justification. Even Blair has now admitted the real war aim was regime change.

So, you cannot have it both ways - if you say you supported a War for the purposes of regime change and not for the WMD lies, then you supported an illegal war - there's no dubiety about it whatsoever.

You're right about the Wales analogy - I would want to see something done if there was indeed "chemical weapons, torture and daily general brutality" - but then I also want to see something done about various degrees of state terror in Zimbabwe, Syria, North Korea, Burma, Uganda and Russia, all of which is largely ignored and certainly not intervened in.

What I would not want to see done however is 1 million civilians killed by starvation and lack of medical supplies due to sanctions and a further 100,000-200,000 killed by bombs and bullets.

[timmberty]

i'm sure the powers that be will be scouring the gay thailand forums of the internet and will have noted your concerns.
i wonder if sadam can rest easy now knowing he was subject of a discussion about arabs in pattaya.
jinks/surf .. are you really so desperate for posts ?

[arsenal]

Scotty. So would you have just let Saddam carry on? Left him there until he died and his son took over. Is that what you would have done.

[scottish-guy]

I'm sorry the discussion has become too intellectual for Timmy - maybe he could try switching off reading it instead of squealing for a moderator every time a subject gets away from cocks and prostitutes and strays into areas requiring some intelligent comment.

Arsenal, I am not Henry Kissinger - I don't know wha the answer to Sadaam was, but I do recall Kofi Annan and the majority of other world leaders were keen to continue efforts to find a diplomatic solution. What I do know is that it ill behoves the very people who, for their own purposes, PUT Saddam into power and MAINTAINED him in power for 24 years (primarily the USA) to then protest about how evil a person he was.

[arsenal]

Yes, be quiet Timmberty. :old:

Scotty: We are both agreed about who put him there, armed him and maintained him for years.

[christianpfc]

Anything that replaced the horrific regime of Saddam was to be welcomed.

I cannot leave that uncommented. It's a choice between Scylla and Charybdis* in Iraq and other Arab countries (Egypt, Libya). Before, there was a stable dictatorship that suppressed (involving prison and torture and murder) people who are against the leader. Now there are religious fanatics, local warlords and armed street gang who suppress (involving prison and torture and murder) people of other religion or political views or ethnicity. Similar to before, just in a more chaotic fashion.

I prefer the previous state (Saddam, Gaddhafi). If you are against your country's political leader, you can just shut up and they will leave you in peace. If you are of a different religion or ethnicity, there is nothing you can do, they (the current religious fanatics, local warlords and armed street gangs) will come after you.

The West made business with Saddam and Gaddhafi for a long time and turned a blind eye on human right violations. Now making business is a lot more difficult when there is chaos in the country.

* for timmberty: means "between a rock and a hard place"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Between_Sc ... _Charybdis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Between_Scylla_and_Charybdis)

[timmberty]

thanks christain i never knew that .. now i do but as soon as i click off the page i'll forget it again.
to comment seriouly about sadam and the other nutters ruling these different countries is pointless ..
take the two main posters here ... first we have arsenal saying he didnt agree with sadam killing millions of people, so he had to be got rid of. the fact millions more have been killed since he was got rid of is the price that had to be paid .. he's like oh well never mind, as long as its not sadam doing the killing its ok.

scotty on the other hand thinks it would have been better to have just left sadam in place to carry on with his killing games ..
millions will die whichever, its what happens in those places.

[scottish-guy]

I did NOT say that - I said that Kofi Annan and a host of World Leaders believed that, given more time, a diplomatic solution might have been possible. So, if you are going to put words in my mouth, at least use the right ones.

I also guess that, alternatively, a popular uprising might have been engineered to oust Saddam.

However, the USA and Blair the poodle only ever had one intention and that was to invade - and let's not pretend they gave a shit about the human rights abuses.