how far is too far ?

[timmberty]

i read on a different forum about a member from here and his attemps to get a guy into his bed ..
the member uses the same name on the other board as he does over here so i guess he doesnt mind the story being mentioned over here.
i read the story yesterday, and it left me feeling cold. so here we have a guy who is well into the thai rent boy scene, shagging as many as he can in the time allowed on each trip. hes also someone i wouldnt call a friend board wise but someone i dont mind so much.

its about a food stall guy who he spent a week buying beers for trying to get him into his bed, dispite the boy saying no over and over again our member didnt give up. even tho all the boys in a certain bar told him to give up "the boys not intrested " he kept at it .. in the end arranging to meet the boy in two minutes at the moto stall.
the boy didnt show up and after 10 minutes our member thought oh well hes not interested im off home. so on the way home he again passed the boy who for a week hasnt been interested and blew him out again that night. but ever persistant and knowing the boy was now a bit pissed, our member got the boy onto his bike and drove him to his hotel.
sex took place as we would expect, and the drunk boy then left.

my point in this is when does a bit of fun become to much? when does a laugh and a joke go to far?
for me it sound like the boy was almost falsed into the position he found himself in.
the boy said he wasnt gay and didnt want to try gay sex .. our member mentions his arse was so tight he probably never had been fucked before..
so we have a boy who was a gay virgin ? wasnt intrested in gay sex .. got pissed and pressured whilst under the influence to have gay sex ..
if he woke up in the morning and felt disgusted at what he had done the night before would he be thinking about calling the bib? would he have a case ?
does to much time in whore city make it alright to pressure people into having sex who would otherwise not be interesred ?
as i said reading the story on another board left me feeling cold .. the reples on that board seemed to think there was nothing wrong with what went on .. so am i the one who is wrong .. is being a sex pest ok ?
your thoughts please.

p.s. im sure everyone knows the poster in question .. im not having a go at that poster in paticular .. more so the story, i just find it wrong.

[arsenal]

Timmberty: A nicely written and thoughtful post.
You might be right or you might be wrong. What we don't know and can never know is the chemistry that happened over a longish period of time. We don't know the look on the boys face as he continually said no but also continually drank night after night with NIrish. (We all know him and I think most of us like him.)
Who here on this board has never said no to something or someone many times before thinking "Oh well, why not. Perhaps just the once."
If the farang (whoever it was) were seeking out the boy to ask him for sex then it's probably a bit far but if the streeet vendor is coming to the farang as seems the case here then I think the flirting is ok.

[latintopxxx]

...depends on how drunk the boy was....if he was still in control of his senses/decision making capabilities then good on nirish....if he was too drunk to even stand up unaide then its rape...

[latintopxxx]

forgot to ask...what was the nmae of the other board??

[Manforallseasons]

Date rape comes to mind.

[Captain Swing]

I don't know either of the people involved, but I have to agree with the OP. The story left me feeling a little uncomfortable too. It's impossible to really judge, not having been there, and, to quote the pope, who am I to judge anyway, but aren't there enough ready willing and able boys available. Is it really necessary to score a point by scoring with an unwilling, and possibly judgment-impaired partner/victim(?)? "Date rape" is not really accurate--it wasn't rape at all--but neither does it seem to me to be particularly a triumph to brag about.

[joe552]

An interesting question, timmberty. I'd consider myself a "friend" of NIrish Guy on the boards (I've never met him) so I have to declare my interest.

It seemed to me that maybe the person in question didn't want to admit to being gay (or even curious) in the company of the other boys at the bar, but he was a willing partner nonetheless. I don't believe that NIrish would have put any pressure on the guy to go home with him (as you point out, timmberty, he's not been short of willing partners).

In the end, only the people involved will ever know, but to me I don't believe NIrish did anything wrong.

[latintopxxx]

...well the fact that he hangs around gay venues...even more telling gay prostitutes....would inducate that he isnt totally innocent....a few beers dont hurt....not sure how drunk he could get on 4 beers...certainly wouldnt knock me off my stride....

[scottish-guy]

Predicatable and almost hysterical over-reaction by some - not to mention mischief-making.

By his own account NIrish had been talking and having a beer almost nightly with this lad for 2 or 3 weeks, making it crystal clear that NIrish wanted to have a roll in the hay with him and lots of nudge-nudge, and wink-wink going on between them.

Finally NIrish invites the boy to accompany him home which (after a bit more metaphorical chasing round the table) he agrees to do and gets on NIrish's motorbike. By this point the boy has consumed a total of 3 small bottles of beer.

After one more beer back at NIrish's place, Hanky-Panky, Slap & Tickle, and Rumpy-Pumpy takes place. Both parties have fun, the boy is compensated for his time, and they part on good terms.

Was the boy snatched off the street - no, he had almost nightly been talking with and joining NIrish and his entourage of "commercial boys" for 2 or 3 weeks.
Was the boy held down and strong alcohol poured down his throat - no he had 3 SMALL beers in the bar and could leave at any time.
Was the boy enticed away on the pretext of viewing Mary Poppins on Blu-Ray - no, NIrish had been making it clear for 2-3 weeks what he was interested in.

So - where's the story here? :dontknow:

To suggest this was anything approaching "Date Rape" actually insults those who have suffered that fate.

[a447]

"Date rape"???

Hardly.


And not that that makes them ACTUALLY drunk of course, but just gives them the age old excuse of "I was drunk, I not know what I was doing


I can only assume he was happy enough as he asked about coming back again after his next shift to pick up where we left off

That says it all. And he's not going to run off to the BIB if he offered to come back for more!

They guy was not drunk - or at least not drunk enough to not know what he was doing. Those 3 beers were consumed over a long period of time. He was not "pressured into" having sex; he got on the bike by his own choice.

I've met Nirishguy a number of times and he's hardly what I'd call intimidating or in any way threatening! :sign5:

Nirishguy is no rapist.

[timmberty]

latin - the other board is gaybuttonthai.

I don't understand how bad people are at maths on this board .. my spelling might be shit but i know 4 + 1 = 5 and not 3.
i agree with captain swing, when there are 100's of boys there for the reason of going with you, why pick on one who for 2 weeks has made it plain hes not interested ?
I'm sure if he had of been up for it then it wouldn't have taken 2 weeks, i also don't think Thai's are that bothered about whether their friends think of them as gay, straight or bi .. and as for working in a gay area, he's trying to earn a living so there is no surprise he's there.

[scottish-guy]

i dont understand how bad people are at maths on this board .. my spelling might be shit but i know 4 + 1 = 5 and not 3..

It's not your maths that's at fault Timmberty it's your fucking comprehension (but that'll come as no surprise to most).


... Back in my room ....after another beer ( he'd had four small bottles all night by this point)...

I.E. ONE further beer in the room made a total of FOUR for the night, therefore THREE must have been consumed in the bar - which is exactly what I posted and a477 alluded to.

[Nirish guy]

Ha ha I almost laughed when I read your post Tim as it couldn't be less like what you have described in terms of what actually happened and my behaviour possibly being wrong in some way. As a few have said I guess it's hard to judge without actually having been there so to ease your cold feeling I'll answer a few of your points.

Firstly I'll accept that you are making a general post and not a personal attack one although obviously as it is "me" that you're talking about it can only feel a bit personal but I'll leave that aside for now and take and answer the post in the genuine vein that I do believe it was intended to be read as.

As I said the guy ( who wasn't some wafe and stray casual food stall vendor by the way as some seemed to assume but is a smart, sorted guy who just doesn't seem to be earning much ( in low season) selling what he does, but as I said I don't and won't get into to much detail here about that as I'm sure some people might know him).

As I said on my original post over on GB's board this guy had been coming to join MY company night after night for around 3 weeks, where each night he had (I had bought) him maybe 2 bottles of Heineken that ( being that he didn't speak much English - or so he led the boys to believe) he sat quietly drinking and listening to all the usual banter that goes on in a Sunee beer bar - including of course plenty of sexual innuendo and playing by everyone and anyone - and at one point on the evening in question actually when I asked again - as everyone including me was STILL unsure of this guys "swing" no matter what he claimed publicly, he actually said when I ask "you have BF or GF?" That yes he had BF - and kept that up for about 15 minutes and then laughed and said "no, I not have anyone, I single" ( or words to that effect) also my "hounding" of him that someone commented on was no harsher than my sitting maybe four seats away from him and maybe either smiling at him or occasionally subtly winking at him when no one was looking, which always got the killer smile reply that I'd mentioned, so if he'd felt uncomfortable at any time with any of that either over the 3 weeks or on the night in question then I'm guessing that at some point he would simply have declined my general invite to come sit in our company of several people each night - but he didn't.

On the night in question he'd has two beers with the first one maybe at around 9.30 the second one at 11pm between walking around Pattaya doing his rounds to sell his wares, then another one at maybe 2.30am and finally one more back in my room at maybe 3.30-4.00am, so he most certainly wasn't "drunk" by anyone's standards and each time a beer was ordered HE ordered it not me as my involvement was nothing more than a wave of the hand over the table of 6 or so of us to indicate "get a round of whatever everyone's having in" to the waiter, likewise back in my room when I asked him did he want something to drink I simply opened the fridge door and waved my hand and said help yourself to whatever ( as my fridge is always stocked with some beer, water, milk drinks and orange juice etc and I want to the toilet and HE chose to pour himself a beer - actually when I came out from the toilet I commented that hadn't not poured me a beer too and he said he'd shouted in but didn't get a reply ( I genuinely didn't hear him), so hopefully that's enough detail to put the " oh he got him "drunk" to fuck him idea to bed, as a) the guy most certainly wasn't in the slightest bit drunk and b) knew exactly what he was doing - I should add this guy is approximately 30 years old not some young vulnerable 20 year old or something and he's been around and isn't stupid but as I said - and as I'm sure we've all heard in the past the " oh I'm a little Mao" card was used by him to obviously allow him the freedom to do "whatever" with me ( 100% by his choice) without admitting that maybe wanted to just as much as I did.

As I also said in my post it was fairly obviously that the guy HAD been with guys before from the way he kissed in bed etc AND the number of times that HE instigated kissing and fondling and other activities etc - and I really don't want or need to get into too much detail here as its not necessary but I think you should just take my word for it that this was no first time with a guy "virgin". I also said his ass was as tight as hell - as it was - that was fact, but as to whether he'd fucked before, I'm guessing so but AM just guessing what with it being Pattaya, him obviously knowing a guys body and not find it strange when we were "assuming the positions" so to speak as nothing was "new" to him that point of view, whether from using lube or to playing with my ass ( sorry to much information I'm sure but I think it's important to get across that this wasn't some 20 year old lying in bed shaking at the thought of first time sex with a guy - quite the opposite)

I also said that afterwards when he had to get up to be somewhere for two or three hours it was HE that asked could I just stay in bed as he wanted to come back and pick up where we left off and it was me said no ( not exactly the actions of a guy who maybe didn't want to be there or was pressurized into doing anything I should think).

So hopefully that puts that cold feeling you had on reading my post at ease somewhat and stops silly words like date rape being used ( by others) as in case you guys aren't aware sometimes "str8" guys ( although this guy happily admitted to never having had a wife or GF apparently) DO like and DO CHOSE to have sex with gay guys and my facilitating that by allowing him to play the "I'm as little Mao" card and thus allowing him his way out is nothing more than me "playing that game" too for both parties mutual benefit.

So, there you go I trust that eases your mind somewhat as I know my conscious is more than clear and I would do the same again tomorrow night if I could as ie always found bedding a "str8" guy to be fun ( for both parties) even though us gay guys do have to waste so much energy playing their little guilt trip games - so date rapist no, fairly typical guy guy - yes I think so - but hey "up to you (all) as I said my conscious is clear and that's all that matters (to me).

[arsenal]

On my last visit there were two nice looking boys, both straight, working in a gogo bar. I had them both for a drink and asked them do you............the usual. They both said they didn't. I told them that I would pay them 1200 Baht and that the offer would stand for as long as I was in Pattaya. Over ten days or so one of them chose to accept my offer (twice) and the other didn't. That's pretty much how it works in Pattaya.
It's quite unpleasant to start throwing around some of the language being used here to describe what actually happened. It's obvious that NIrish actually charmed this guy into bed. A difficult concept for some of you to understand perhaps but it does happen.

[Nirish guy]

[quote="timmberty"]latin - the other board is gaybuttonthai.

"I don't understand how bad people are at maths on this board .. my spelling might be shit but i know 4 + 1 = 5 and not 3."

I think I've covered that, but lets not get caught up on was it 3 bottles or 4 bottles as its fairly irrelevant, the point was the guy wasn't drunk - end of - for all I know he could have had another 30 bottles in the few hours he was absent so it's all a bit daft to start going down that road, the simple point is he wasn't in anyway drunk or mental impaired.


"When there are 100's of boys there for the reason of going with you, why pick on one who for 2 weeks has made it plain hes not interested ?"

Ah but surely sometimes the chase is as much fun as the action, as you say you've a wealth of guys here who will bend over in an instant but to actually have to "work" at getting a fuck and succeeding makes that fuck all the more rewarding sometimes - for both parties I usually find - and if you've never had to "work" to get a fuck then I suggest you've been hanging round the commercial scene to long and forget what the real world is like.


"I'm sure if he had of been up for it then it wouldn't have taken 2 weeks"

Why not ? How can you (or I) know what's going on in another persons head, for all we know he could have been struggling with his own sexual identity for those two weeks hence coming back each night edging closer and closer to "trying something with a guy" - as I'm sure most of us did when we first dabbled with guys, for all we know I might have done the guy a great favour and I'll see him leading the Pattata gay pride parade next year after him realising that actually he loved our hot night together and actually he's gay and that guys are his "thing" after all.


"I also don't think Thai's are that bothered about whether their friends think of them as gay, straight or bi".

Actually depending on the circumstance I find the exact opposite to be true in that "str8" guys go out of their way to be sure to NOT be labelled as gay in ANY way as homophobia IS still rife in Thailand and gays ARE thought of as lower and dirtier etc than str8s, I think within the gay community it doesn't matter so much but even ask a gay "man" if he's gay ( ie a bottom) and you'll get a very firm "NO, I a MAN" in reply.

[timmberty]

well it all sounds a bit clearer now ni, thanks for not taking it to personal, wouldnt want you ending up like your mate, ranting and raving over his alludings.

ni wrote "Actually depending on the circumstance I find the exact opposite that "str8" guys go out of their way to be sure to NOT be labelled as gay in ANY way as homophobia IS still rife in Thailand and gays ARE thought of as lower and dirtier etc than str8s, I think within the gay community it doesn't matter so much but even ask a gay "man" if he's gay ( ie a bottom) and you'll get a very firm "NO, I a MAN" in reply."

as for this i think you know what i mean ... a straight guy in england or ni is very unlikely to be found walking around naked in a go go bar with another naked guy attached to his cock.

[Nirish guy]

It's obvious that NIrish actually charmed this guy into bed. A difficult concept for some of you to understand perhaps but it does happen.

Thank you Arsenal for that as all joking aside that IS exactly what happened I believe as I would stress there was no talk of money or a tip or if you go with me I'm a generous man or any of that crap, just a hey, you want to go, come lets you, you never know until you try, maybe you'll like and words to that effect and all the other "lines" that gay guys have been using to get str8 guys into bed for a millennia I assume - and as I've already said I actually believe that this was a guy who had gone with other guys before, paid or otherwise aa over the 3 weeks he'd mentioned how gay guys really liked him and slways commented on his lovely smile ( which he them displayed to me several times esch night as if to prove the point) and re money im not sure but being Pattaya Im guessing so and i think he simply wanted to try it again as again without going into detail he was as horny and hard in bed as I was - and if not more so perhaps.

What's amazing me is some posters total lack of either confidence or belief that guy guy can and do pull "str8" guys !! I can't be the only one SURELY ! He'll half the fun I have in a str8 club is pulling a str8 guy and going home for some fun - the point being that the fact that they HAVE ended up in bed with you usually means they were never all that STR8 in the first place. Have guys on here gotten so used to paid sex that the don't go out "looking" for it anymore ? Now THAT to me is the sad part here not my apparent being a bad gay and bedding a (not so) str8 guy.

[bao-bao]

It's obvious that NIrish actually charmed this guy into bed. A difficult concept for some of you to understand perhaps but it does happen.
Anyone who's spent time in a pick-up bar of any kind has seen both ends of the social spectrum; meaning on a 1-to-10 scale, with 1 being those too shy to do anything more than repeatedly glance (and maybe smile) at someone they find attractive to 10, the boorish person who'll force themselves onto their prey, verbally or physically.

On that scale I'd put Nirish guy on the lower end - the more gentle and playful approach. Remember, this wasn't in a club where it's accepted that 98% of the time a person could easily negotiate a "date". I didn't see that he used undue influence on the guy, which isn't really fair, IMHO; from the way he's explained things and understanding that he wasn't blatantly waving cash what he did was patiently play a game of cat and mouse; something I'd dare say all of us have done at some point in our lives, in one way or another.

Personally, I'd rather read ten of those stories than one from a Rough Rider who needs to stuff their socks into the guy's mouth while they ravage and humiliate them to get their rocks off. Thanks for the share, NI.

[Jellybean]

When I read the opening post earlier today, before NIrish guyтАЩs replies, I was surprised at what seemed to me to be a potentially serious allegation, although couched in general terms, but leaving no doubt who the subject of the topic was aimed at. I thought at the time that timmberty had simply misread the situation as reported.

I then read NIrishтАЩs complete post on gaybuttonthai.com and formed a completely different conclusion from that drawn by timmberty and, I have to say, I felt no sense of тАЬfeeling coldтАЭ. The salient points for me were to be found in NIrish guyтАЩs description of the events, which he said took place in his hotel room, and quoted by a447 in his post above.

On returning home and re-opening this subject on my computer this afternoon I see that NIrish guy has, in my opinion, been very generous in his replies, not taken the subject personally and replied in good grace.

I would also like to think that timmberty did not raise this topic through any sense of mischief and had genuinely misunderstood what had happened and was simply inviting us to comment on the general subject matter of тАЬsex pestsтАЭ as he described them and the crossing of a line in certain situations when picking up guys could quite easily drift into something darker and much more serious.

As far as I can judge, timmberty has been satisfied with the further explanations and greater detail supplied by NIrish guy, in which he clearly told us how much the 30 year Thai street trader enjoyed, got aroused and fully participated in their love making session. I am sure NIrish will now put this matter behind him, enjoy the rest of his holiday in Thailand and carriy on reporting back to us on his hedonistic lifestyle with his characteristic sense of good humour and Irish wit.

[scottish-guy]

..I would also like to think that timmberty did not raise this topic through any sense of mischief ....

So would I, Jellybean, so would I....

[timmberty]

hello jellyean, yes ni has replied in good grace and i am happy with his explanition of things.
i stand by what i say tho of the original post. it came across as someone showing little respect to the feelings of a fellow human being. it has now been filled out somewhat and makes far more sense.
lets be honest here for a moment tho, if the post had been made by someone with a reputation like latin's, instead of ni i dont think so many people would have felt the need to be offended on his behalf.

[Nirish guy]

Thank you guys for the above, I have to say that based on such a genuinely innocent encounter albeit a long time in coming / waiting for and one where I have to say I don't accept in any way showed a lack of respect of feeling for another human being etc I was a little surprised at the direction a few posts took, but I fully understand and accept that without people being there and knowing the background of things people may have jumped to a VERY wrong conclusion. I am as a few people have alluded a "nice guy" and I treat the many guys I go with with respect and we have fun, which is proven by the number of guys who seek me out when I arrive and not just for sex but for a laugh and a good night out and as Bao Bao quite rightly guessed I'm on one hand a nice soft heart guy who goes out for mutual fun but thankfully also long in enough in the tooth in Thailand and elsewhere to be whatever is called for whether that's vanilla or whatever, but always ALWAYS from a position of mutual respect and fun, whether that be money boy, gay guy or Str8 guy :-)

And just to be clear I do and did take Timmbertys original post as a genuinely held point of view and nothing else, where he maybe just read more into my post than I ever intended (dreamt) of, but i accept thats the danger of posting to internet where you "assume" take things as "read" as opposed to having the face to face conversations and thankfully I'm glad to see and say that all the crap of the last while is long behind us all and everyone is moving on and the board is returning to "business as usual".

I have to say when posting I always assume that people a take and accept my posts both as honest and genuine and also from the basis of my being a reasonably decent human being ( like all banter and joking aside everyone else on the board(s) as far as I'm concerned) and I certainly have or hold no issues or grudges against Tim or anyone else in this instance as ACTUALLY I think it's quiet healthy that we as a board moderate ourselves / each other and flag up behaviour that ISN'T acceptable and that behaviour is called into question otherwise this and other boards become places I certainly wouldn't want to be and I'm sure I speak for most of you when I say that.

So, there we go, no harm done and yes I'm out enjoying my last few nights in Sunee, currently sitting at a boys birthday party in Sunee stuffing myself with cake having a blast - and just to avoid any confusion I should "cake" is not the name of the Thai guy I'm with !!! :-)) I'm also guzzling lots of "beer" - and beer just might be the name of the Thai boy I'm with !!! Lol. ( that's a joke by the way in case there ARE any boys here called Beer !!!! :-)

[latintopxxx]

...oh honestly...what is this???...a love fest....has Christmas come early and nobody told me....wheres a good troll when you need one....

[bucknaway]

...oh honestly...what is this???...a love fest....has Christmas come early and nobody told me....wheres a good troll when you need one....

Most of the trolls formed their own board to troll on. It's been pretty nice here lately :occasion5:

[dab69]

wow i would be embarassed to be the OP, but not bothering to
search how ambiguous the original post by Nirish was.
Yes, I think this is too far, and not by Nirish.

Luckily, I think RushYetAgain is vacationing
from his blog, or would look to be a
Sunday Funny here.

[a447]

This has been a very interesting thread and illustrates the dangers in posting material which could be misconstrued/misunderstood/misinterpreted etc by others.

It has all been cleared up know so I guess that's the end of it.

BTW, for what it's worth, I don't think Timmberty was shit-stirring; I think he posted in good faith on this.

[Dodger]

What's amazing me is some posters total lack of either confidence or belief that guy guy can and do pull "str8" guys !! I can't be the only one SURELY !

It's common knowledge that 30-40% of the working boys are str8-for-pay (including the free lancers) and punters (including many posters here) have sex with them all the time...some even preferring str8 over gay, but finding a str8 guy to have sex with who is not doing so for the money sounds like something out of the Twilight Zone. I could imagine a non-working bi-curious Thai boy having a fling with a gay guy (farang or Thai)...but if this romance is cultivating on the sois of Boyztown or Sunee Plaza one would have to be skeptical of his true motivations.

I enjoyed your story. I love adventure and never frame any of them with limitations or rigid borders. Albert Einstein was quoted as saying..."If a person believes in something which does not exist with enough passion he can create it."

[latintopxxx]

...along the same line....fav of mine is "convincing"a gogo boy who is a "man"only.....to bottom....especially on a rainy night in low season....like the credit card add says...priceless....

[a447]

If a person believes in something that does not exist with enough passion he can create it

How appropriate! :sign5:

[Zebedee]

"So money wasn't mentioned, but I DID stick 1000 in his side pocket in his way out the door as I know he doesn't earn a lot and could probably do with it. But no he didn't ask and didn't throw it back at me in disgust so I can only assume he was happy enough as he asked about coming back again after his next shift to pick up where we left off but in true butterfly fashion I said thanks but I ok - but I might just take him up on that later though - if nothing else catches my eye ( which is highly likely to happen anyway" !---- NI.

The above is a quote from NI, I just read the thread briefly and admit having not analysed it to the the degree necessary to state he "R***D the guy or not. But NI. has stated the guy suggested coming back for more! So have I missed something? How could anyone accuse NI of illegal activity in bedding the guy, if he wanted MORE of the same.
Shit, some of the (tall) stories Latin tells are borderline and make NI look harmless.
Regardless of Timbertys motivation on starting this thread, in my view he should not have started this! If my interpretation of the facts ( outlined ) above are incorrect please tell me where I am wrong, other than that I am completely bewildered by these accusations / insinuations toward NI.
I don't know NI and never met him in person , some of his posts are a pain in the neck others are interesting , but to allude to ...what are serious allegations... of him towards that guy are inappropriate to say the least!

[timmberty]

zebedee you say you have not even read the post properly yet here you are saying i shouldnt have commented.. at least read the thing first huh ..
as to why i posted? lets say some newbi to the boards and more so new to thailand had read the OP. now hes in a bar and sees a boy he fancies, day after day the boy turns down hi advances, the guy remembers .. oh i read on a thread once just because they turn you down it doesnt mean they dont want sex, just because he told me hes not gay doesnt mean he doesnt want sex with me .. etc etc ... so lets just say he sees the guy a bit pissed up one night and says lets have a last drink at mine, no sex of course ... then when they get back to his room ..... wooo more beer and before you know it bang.
but in your book thats alright it seems?
ni is a thai old boy and can read the signs, a newbi might not be quite so good at the same thing.

[Nirish guy]

Tim at the risk of keeping this now silly thread going with such a lot of talk about nothing I would point out that your outlining of what might happen if a newbie comes to Thailand etc bears ABSOLUTELY no relation to my evening with a 30 year old man chosing of his own free will to go back to another gay guys room for sex.

The facts are ( again) that when he said he wasn't gay and didn't go with customers etc this was in answer to and always whilst in the middle of a group of his Thai guy friends and work associates and even then I absolutely doubted that was true based on his stories of how many gay guys like him for his killer smile which he then went "look" and flashed at me many many times - sorry but to me that was goid old fashioned flirting for my (private) benefit when he was sure his friends weren't watching or listening.

Also and as I've already said based on his experience in bed I have no doubt that I wasn't the first guy this guy ever went home with and my gut instinct and my "gaydar" proved to be absolutely correct in guessing that if the time was right and none of thai friends would find out then this guy might in fact be quite happy to join me for mutual fun if the circumstances presented themselves - no matter WHAT he stated publicly to his Thai friends when asked in Thai in front of them - and I was right about that.

I would also remind you that any (small) amount of beer the guy had was 100% of his own choosing, NO ONE (I) didn't get him tipsy or have any master plan to do so ( and i quite resent the suggestion i might have had actually) as whatever he drank was of his own choosing. He was also was under absolutely no illusions as to why we were leaving our group of people seperatly at 4am to go back to my room so he wouldn't be seen and he went back totally of his own free will ( of course - like what i dragged a 30 year old man kicking and screaming off the street or something, i mean come on !

The only condition seemed to be that as I'd ( correctly) guessed he just didn't want to be "seen" going back to ANY farangs room by his Thai friends and i was quite happy to help him keep his "secret" life just that - secret - as to his reasons they were and are none of my business.

Also when back in my room and after ten minutes of the usual breaking the ice and mutual leg rubbing and pecking kisses etc and generally relaxing together he then choose to have one (glass actually) of beer while relaxing with me and then happily and voluntarily joined me in walking into the bedroom where I suggested we go to go to be more comfortable ( as we'd BOTH hard ons annoying us when sitting on the sofa kissing if you must know) and he then removed his own clothes and underwear and got into bed ( actually long before I did even as I'd gone on in to the toilet). He then joined me in very mutually enjoyable sex session where he was every bit as keen (and experienced) in man to man sex as I was, right down to him lubing and playing with his own and my ass - sorry to be so graphic but i think i need to dispell some of the offensive tone thats been posted about our sex not being somehow consensual, he also throughly enjoyed getting fucked and indeed was as I've already stated the one that asked ME could "i" wait in bed for him as he wanted to come back after his short work duty - which I'm assuming based on some actions during sex where he was "on top"
that he also wanted to fuck me next time round but as that was to be 4 hours later "I" politely declined.

So as I've already stated those are the facts and all this talk of anything untoward having occured is just totally ridiculous and quite offensive, I accept that perhaps on my re-reading my original post people "might" have gotten the wrong idea, i think the very fact that i didnt (need) to chose my words carefully show more than anythung i certainly wasnt "taking liberties" with this guy in any way and as I've said this IS now all starting to getting slightly personally offensive perhaps but I trust my yet again further outlining yet more details of my sex life will suffice to ease your undue worry.

So I hope (yet again) that I've now bothered ( twice) to explain to you and others the ACTUAL events and not some alterative twisting of those events to suit making a "nothing" into a "something" and what was originally a reply Id made to a thread on GBs board about how when a Thai guy says something that that answer you get maybe not always be the "actual" answer depending on surrounding circumstance - which is EXACTLY what happened in this situation and the reason Posted the thread in the first place although that point seems to have been totally overlooked it seems is understood and taken in the manner in which it was intended to be read.

So, assuming you and others are now happy can we move on please as really a simple mutually enjoyed, freely held fuck between two mature consenting adults shouldn't really need to be gone into in such depth and discussion and a simple fuck I had with a as it turns out "not" so str8 guy shoudnt require such debate. It's getting boring now and as I said it is getting just a tad personally offensive now.

[timmberty]

ni is a thai old boy and can read the signs, a newbi might not be quite so good at the same thing.

did you read this bit ?

[Zebedee]

Timy baby! We all get knocked back at some stage! That's life. If NI was more persistent ....so be it... It doesn't mean he took advantage to the extent he raped the guy!
For you to start this thread ,then you have to accept responsibility for what you "-alluded to"! As for you being "left cold"
Don't get on your high horse with me mate!

[Nirish guy]

I think a newbie could be well heeded to read my original advice - which I stand by - that like in other counties too the first answer you are given to a question or enquiry as to would a guy like to go home with you may not in fact by the ACTUAL answer but the answer "at that time"
- that was sound advice and given with the best of intentions and not as some lure or guide to "how to rape a human being" as seems to be being suggested now and I'm sure everyone, even a newbie, can understand the difference, even if you it seems cannot?

[Zebedee]

Fucksake NI , somebody already used the term " VERBOSE" !

[Dodger]

timmberty wrote:

ni is a thai old boy and can read the signs, a newbi might not be quite so good at the same thing.

That simply suggests that the inexperienced newbie would not have been as lucky as NI was that night.

NIrish,

I don't see any reason why you have to justify yourself. What you described in your story was simply an interaction between two consulting adults, one being gay (yourself) and the other being either gay himself or at least bi or bi-curious. In any event, the guy you tossed in the hay with apparently enjoyed himself or he would have simply left your room and not asked if he could see you again. Consuming 4 bottles of beer doesn't render a 30 year old man senseless to the point that he's going to allow someone to fuck him if he doesn't want to be fucked. Personally, I wish I had been in your shoes that night. I would have enjoyed tuning that tight banjo string with my tongue for a while...he sounds scrumptuous.

[timmberty]

what i alluded to ? i alluded to the fact i thought he went to far in not taking no for an answer ..
however he persisted and got what he wanted .. good for him, me personally if i had been knocked back to 2 weeks i'd have given up ... different strokes for different folks n all that stuff ..
but do me a favour you along with a few others have mentioned a certain word that has not passed my lips what-so-ever ... dont even think about trying to put that one on me.
ni said "how to rape a human being"
sorry ni as i explained to zebedee at no time have i mentioned such a word .. but please if you can find it do let me know ... as you have now said 3 times you stand by what you wrote, i also stand my my post that it made hard reading, and the few p.m's ive recieved tell me im not the only one.
now if you are so keen to drop it, its gone.

[Nirish guy]

Thank you Dodger - and he SO was - my only disappointment WAS in my saying no to a later hook up as I was so busy trying to play the butterfly card as is told him many times over the weeks ( and during sex) that "I like you a lot" and I think he actually took that to mean we could perhaps be secret boyfriends perhaps for regular fun as when he said about coming back and saying "if you like me can I come back later" a I thought of was "OPPS, he's doing the falling for his first BF mistake" so I was keen to knock that idea on the head as quickly as possible so added quickly that I also liked X,Y and Z ( other waiters from the bars) so he understood what butterfly meant and I know from the instant "oh right so this is just a one time thing then" that he absolutely got that - which actually looking in his eyes annoyed me a little, but sometimes being a butterfly means being tough and this was one of those times - but later when I thought of his great body and good skills I actually regretted my keenness to see him off and wish I had of held on for his encore - but hey it's Pattaya so I'm sure he'll still be here the next time I'm back - hopefully :-)

[Nirish guy]

Zebeddee - sorry :-) I'm writing on my phone and didn't realise it was so long but I felt it important to state some the facts for the record, I'm all done now. :-)

Tim - as I said at the start I do believe and understand you posted in good faith and be clear I'm accusing you of nothing, no hard feelings from this end at all.

[Zebedee]

NI , you do not have to justify your actions on that night ....to anybody here ...it was kind of you to share the event in the first place!
Now it seems if a poster gives his report of his "forays" he is then subjected to a judge and jury via this board!
Again I say Tim was out of line posting this thread!

[Dodger]

I think you play the butterfly card well. That's an area where I have fallen short many many times - especially when they look at you with those mystical...sensual...eyes of theirs and say they really want to be with you again...makes me melt.

Do you see any similarities between timmberty and the guy in your story? I do. You have now told timmberty "No" 5 times when he repeatedly suggests you somehow took advantage of the guy - and he keeps coming back for more...LOL.

[Zebedee]

what i alluded to ? i alluded to the fact i thought he went to far in not taking no for an answer ..
however he persisted and got what he wanted .. good for him, me personally if i had been knocked back to 2 weeks i'd have given up ... different strokes for different folks n all that stuff ..
but do me a favour you along with a few others have mentioned a certain word that has not passed my lips what-so-ever ... dont even think about trying to put that one on me.
ni said "how to rape a human being"
sorry ni as i explained to zebedee at no time have i mentioned such a word .. but please if you can find it do let me know ... as you have now said 3 times you stand by what you wrote, i also stand my my post that it made hard reading, and the few p.m's ive recieved tell me im not the only one.
now if you are so keen to drop it, its gone.

Ok Tim I have considered your post above.
It is now my studied opinion , that you should go and fuck yourself ! You malicious little prick!

[Nirish guy]

Thank you Zeb.

And re Tim honestly I think in this case his heart was in the right place and that he genuinely posted a "how far is to far" question ( which is a fair topic and question to discuss on here in general) after reading my original post, which he and others perhaps found a little close to the wire until I explained myself a little better. Again this is fair enough and I don't think he was being malicious in any way and WAS simply asking the question. If I'm being honest I'd of liked to have thought my previous posts and reputation (whatever that may be) would have landed me on the right side of the line of any doubt as to my fun that night, but I accept that one reading my first post that may not have been apparent to some perhaps and so I was happy to clarify that for those that needed it, which Tim did also acknowledge so no harm done and all's well with the world :-)

Now, I could tell you about how last night I told one guy we were going home together and then went to the toilet, ended up kissing another guy, changing my mind and going down and telling guy number one I was taking guy number two instead and I would call him today instead to hook up later - now that WOULD make me look like a bit of a butterfly bastard which is exactly why I'm not going to post it ! OPPS !! :-) lol

[timmberty]

well done zebedee ... you now realise you where wrong and have nothing left but a bit of venom to spit out ..
no wonder i find queens so hard to like.
THE END.

[Nirish guy]

And thank you Dodger and you're right, ive said to a few others in PMs this trip I've gone out of my way to be a total ( and at times almost ruthless) butterfly and it's made such a difference to my trip. Like yourself on other trips I've been so "nice" and ended up finding myself stuck with a guy for a day/ night or whatever when I really wanted to be doing something / someone else and it getting bogged down in Thai guys problems and dramas, this trip I SWORE to myself I wasn't going to let that happen and have stuck to it no matter what am I've had an absolute ball !!!

And actually the knock on effect ( apart for having loads more sex and doing exactly who and what I wanted to do) is that the Thai guys actually ended up appreciating me MORE for it as they were they didn't have to waste their time with games and when I wanted them they got called and paid with no hassles on either side and many a night I found myself sitting in a group of maybe 10 or 15 guys, knowing I'd shagged most of them and them all knowing that too and NO ONE cared or were embarrassed or jealous as we all fully understood it was just "business" and so then all went out and had great fun together.

[scottish-guy]

Well, Timmberty, we obviously can not see all these "supportive" PMs you claim to have received - but what we can see publicly is that the only post in your favour is the ludicrous "date rape" contribution of MFAS. Even Captain Swing rowed back to say it was "impossible to judge without being there"

As for you posting in "good faith" as some have over-generously assumed - well, let's just remember that this "story" did not even start on this forum at all. You deliberately chose to bring the story over from GB - simply because you felt (as you admit in your OP) that NIrish wasn't getting a rough enough ride over on GB. If that isn't "mischief-making" I don't know what is.

[Zebedee]

well done zebedee ... you now realise you where wrong and have nothing left but a bit of venom to spit out ..
no wonder i find queens so hard to like.
THE END.

Timy, if you had ANYTHING,.... ANYTHING... that was supportable I would back you. But No! All you done was to repeat what was said on PBB without any regard for NI or the facts.

[scottish-guy]

<removed in the interests of world peace>

:sign5:

[timmberty]

latin - the other board is gaybuttonthai.

i started this thread on here august 2nd at 7.32am
pbb started their thread august 2nd at 12.51pm

would any others who feel the need to express shock horror please do so in a new thread, we dont need to turn this into yet another petty fight, dispite certain members delights at such a prospect.
many thanks.
THE END END.

[Nirish guy]

Here here - the end - Rum and I have already moved on, so lets keep moving folks, nothing to see here - as those American cop shows always seem to say :-))

[Zebedee]

what i alluded to ? i alluded to the fact i thought he went to far in not taking no for an answer ..
however he persisted and got what he wanted .. good for him, me personally if i had been knocked back to 2 weeks i'd have given up ... different strokes for different folks n all that stuff ..
but do me a favour you along with a few others have mentioned a certain word that has not passed my lips what-so-ever ... dont even think about trying to put that one on me.
ni said "how to rape a human being"
sorry ni as i explained to zebedee at no time have i mentioned such a word .. but please if you can find it do let me know ... as you have now said 3 times you stand by what you wrote, i also stand my my post that it made hard reading, and the few p.m's ive recieved tell me im not the only one.
now if you are so keen to drop it, its gone.

Ok Tim I have considered your post above.
It is now my studied opinion , that you should go and fuck yourself ! You malicious little prick!

Jinks,it is clear Zebedee's abusive language towards a respected poster such as Timberty cannot be tolerated it must break some rule! All Tim has done is to state his views on a "thorny" subject... as he is entitled to do. He should not have to endure Zebedee's foul mouthed tirade simply because Zebedee cannot make his point without resorting to unacceptable behaviour .
I call for Zebedee's immediate expulsion from the board closing his account permanently and deleting all his posts! Furthermore I ask other posters to support this request by posting accordingly! We simply must enforce proper standards here!

[Zebedee]

Yes I agree with the above post. Kick Zebedee off the board .....permanently!! :hello2:

[arsenal]

I am sure that Dougal, Florence, Brian and Ermintrude would be sad to see Zebedee go. Boing. :smilebox:

[Zebedee]

I am sure that Dougal, Florence, Brian and Ermintrude would be sad to see Zebedee go. Boing. :smilebox:


Arsenal are trying to push my buttons / springs?

[Smiles]

" ... It is now my studied opinion , that you should go and fuck yourself ! You malicious little prick!"
I doubt the words above would have a banning affect. They break no rules ... you know, the one which might state that: "Thou shall not go fuck thyself, or anyone else, or specifically allude to another Member with the first initial of 'T'".
No no no Zebedee, they are 'flowery' words and not much else, although they get the point across ... and can be highly deserved (in some instances).

[timmberty]

smiles i've read loads of posts from yesteryear, you used to be rather whitty. what happened ?

[scottish-guy]

Why did Smiles stop being Whitty?

Simple - even in drag Smiles was never particularly successful under his stage name of Dame May.

As you can see from these posters he appeared in some well-known movies but could only ever manage around 3rd place on the bill.

And who'd have guessed he was so old!

[attachment=2:3ug4pcqs]220px-Lassie_Come_Home,_Original_Theatrical_Poster.jpg[/attachment:3ug4pcqs] [attachment=1:3ug4pcqs]220px-Mrs_Miniver_poster.gif[/attachment:3ug4pcqs] [attachment=0:3ug4pcqs]220px-Night-must-fall-poster.jpg[/attachment:3ug4pcqs]

[timmberty]

yes but no need to highlite .. it wasnt a typo.. witty and smieles really dont go together ... see just can't do the two together.
zebedee is there a reason you like to get yourself kicked off the board after 20 or 30 posts ?? this will be your 3rd time.. strange man.

[Nirish guy]

And Even more strange Zebedee calling for his own expulsion in one post and then immediately following that up with another post supporting the first posts call for the expulsion, you'd almost think someone had forgotten to log off and on again and change their name - very sloppy work ! :-( lol

[Zebedee]

yes but no need to highlite .. it wasnt a typo.. witty and smieles really dont go together ... see just can't do the two together.
zebedee is there a reason you like to get yourself kicked off the board after 20 or 30 posts ?? this will be your 3rd time.. strange man.

Just fed up with the constant bickering, it never ends and it seems so pointless. And yes I am partly to blame for reacting to it.regarding my "supporting" post for my own expulsion , I was just having a laugh. But I would like to be permanently deleted, not just deactivated.
Timmy, I think you have made a few reincarnations yourself old pal, but you never asked to be deleted you just quit and then came back again.....!
Anyway sorry about yesterday's outburst you didn't deserve that! I can apologise now seeing as they won't delete me, my stunt didn't work. And smiles is going to make sure I never escape!

[Smiles]

Even more strange calling for his own expulsion in one post and then immediately following that up with another post supporting the first posts call for the expulsion, you'd almost think someone had forgotten to log off and on again and change their name - very sloppy work ! :-( lol
Timbit is beside himself.
Timbit/Timbit (besides themselves) conjours up ~ in their own minds ~ just another simpleton(s) purporting to be the newest Morality Cops of Sawatdee. :old: Not bad for a guy who swam with the crocodiles in Another Place ~ and one dirty big one in particular ~ for so long. :croc:
Some morality. Some virtuousness.

And I've never done drag.

[dab69]

Guess I wasn't the only one who thought this a bit odd and too far.
http://bangkokbois.files.wordpress.com/ ... ach-62.jpg (http://bangkokbois.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/lifes-a-beach-62.jpg)

welcome back Mr Rush.

http://bangkokbois.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/lifes-a-beach-62.jpg

[timmberty]

wow cutting edge humour.. and you even suggested he do it ..

[francois]

Well, Timmberty, we obviously can not see all these "supportive" PMs you claim to have received - but what we can see publicly is that the only post in your favour is the ludicrous "date rape" contribution of MFAS. Even Captain Swing rowed back to say it was "impossible to judge without being there .

In support of Timmberty I did send him a PM with my impression of NIG's post. I don't wish to be publicly critical of other posters thus shared my comments via a PM . But yes, my initial impression of that post did make me cringe a bit.