Musings on latest trip...your thoughts.

[adquelo]

ItтАЩs been a while since I was last in Thailand, the last time being 2009. IтАЩve just returned from a trip where I hooked up with a guy but a few different things happened this trip that have left me puzzled and I would welcome any thoughts.

Went to Pattaya for my 40th Birthday and made arrangements, via GayRomeo, to hook up with a massage boy. Agreed a price in advance for him to spend the entire holiday with me. So on the face of it a service and transaction, or тАШrentalтАЩ as some have termed it.

Had a great time with someone who was very attentive and actually wanted to, in his own words тАЬtake care meтАЭ this included shaving my facial hair in the shower so I looked more тАЬmanlyтАЭ, clipping my toenails and skin on the bottom on my feet, (which I refused quite strongly to begin with as I know the feet are seen as the lowest part of the body, but he was adamant he wanted to.)

He got quite upset one time when I wasnтАЩt looking where I was going and walked into an empty street cart, he stood there with his hand on hips, looking very displeased saying тАЬyou need to look after yourselfтАЭ and examining my head for any sign of a scratch. (I put that down to thai vanity and not wanting to be seen with an injured farang!)

Went to the temple with him. Normally I stand on the side-lines and let them do what they need to do while I take pictures. This time he asked me to join him and we lit candles, put my hand on one side of a food bucket and his on another as we gave it to the monk, so we gave it together, knelt in front of said monk and got sprinkled with water (I presume to cleanse me!) and then tied some string around my wrist. That felt very different.

The whole time he was with me, he didnтАЩt ask for anything and was quite adamant I didnтАЩt buy him anything, once again very different from times before.

About 3 days into the trip he said before I left he wanted to give me something to keep me safe and on the last day I got presented with a travelling budda medallion to put around my neck to keep me safe until we meet again, which he apparently had had in his room for a long time.

Went to see his тАЬroomтАЭ which I instantly regretted. A room with plyboard walls, plyboard over the window, a mattress on the floor and a fanтАж.that was it, A communal toilet (hole in the floor) and shower (bucket of cold water) I kept my shock to myself and deep down instantly want to move him. However he seemed content, actually apologising for not sweeping up!

He was quite open with me about his friends, showing me past guyтАЩs pictures on his phone and text messages from his friends, he even asked to me speak to few, which caused great hilarity. He took pictures of us together and sent them to friends, almost like a trophy тАЬlook what I have.тАЭ Even spent one night with all his friends at an open air snooker bar drinking thai whisky, which I have to say was one of the best nights.

There was of course тАЬthe other phoneтАЭ that was a knackered old Nokia which a number of messages came through on, but that stayed firmly hidden.

We became quite close over our time together and one time I went shopping while he went to gym, he was standing in the street looking stressed and worried when I was 5 mins late. (Quite ironic considering Thai timekeeping) He kept saying a couple of days before I left тАЬI not want you to go home you give me good time you have good heartтАЭ with his eyes starting to well up! There were of course tears when I left, but not only from me, from him as well and he seemed genuinely upset, it didnтАЩt seem put on.

On the last day I asked him to give me his bank details and to let me know if he got into trouble. Instantly a slip of paper with it all printed out appeared from his wallet. This made me chuckle!! But to date IтАЩve not been asked for any money. Since I got back we whatsapp message and speak via тАЬLineтАЭ and he has said those immortal words тАЬlove you so muchтАЭ тАЬMiss you so muchтАЭ тАЬI cry when I think about youтАЭ etc etc which I also respond with as I do have genuine feelings for the guy, but have no illusion about his job and what he does. He could just be very good at what he does and pulling at heart strings.

IтАЩm going back in November and this is where I would welcome any thoughts. He has told his mum about me and has asked if I could visit his home town and his family (in Issan) for a couple of days. Which I donтАЩt mind as it would be nice to see rural Thailand. He also suggested about hiring a car, which I am a little unsure of as IтАЩve never driven in Thailand, but I putting that down to "face" and arriving at his family home in a car driven by a westerner! But apparently I am the first white guy his mum has been introduced to. Good thing or not?

I communicated quite well with him and we laughed and joked together which is important. I asked him what he wanted from life and whether he enjoyed his job as a massage boy. He said it gives him money but he doesnтАЩt really enjoy the sex side of things. It was different with me apparently (but heтАЩs bound to say that!) He also said he is 27 and thinks he only has 3 more years left in him. So me being the gullible Brit said OK, we talk about your future in November. I do genuinely want to help him better himself.

So at the end of the day he is a massage boy and does what he has to do. I know that and itтАЩs how he earns his living and send money home. Its early days yet and when push comes to shove IтАЩve only been with him for 2 weeks, but I do get the impression he has genuine feelings for me.

So your thoughts on what I have here? Is it genuine? Anyone had a similar experience?

[Manforallseasons]

I notice this is your first post. The scenario you paint is a bit to pat, but surely you'll find someone to rise to the bait.

[adquelo]

Yep competely new to the forum. Apologies if this wasn't appropiate to post.

[1moRussian]

Russian forums advice to read "Private Dancer" - A novel about love, betrayal and death in Thailand by Stephen Leather - before any further involvements. Of course, it's only a novel.

[francois]

Ok, I will take the bait. My experience with my first bf was similar to what you posted adquelo; that was 13 years ago and still together. I love romance stories.

[Smiles]

I'll just address the upcoming November trip and a possible visit to his village. Do it ... what's the worst thing that could happen?

No matter what the consequences are it will be an eye-opening experience, probably a lot of fun, and if the guy is of the same general decent demeanour as to how you describe him in your opening post then you should not have to be concerned about any obvious scams - you know, all those ghastly stories constantly described by dudes here whose hearts were broken forever by being asked to buy the groceries for a one-time family feast.
Will you come out of it with a long term relationship? Who knows ... in fact, probably not. So don't think too much - to coin a phrase - and go for it.

My experience in this is pretty well equivalent to Francois above: also 13 happy years now with my old man. Not a bad deal for my unbelievably generous gift of a thousand baht to his mama (in a nice little envelope no less) on our first meeting back in 2000.
Not much else has passed hands since: either given, or asked for. Suphot will send his mother a 1000 baht here or there during any given month. I match it ... if he lets me know. Often times he doesn't even tell me.

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If you do end up deciding to go on this trip, here are a few photos of the kinds of scenes you might well encounter as being typical. My guy's family is large and quite diverse ... some are doing better than others, but they are definitely not dirt poor, nor are they middle class. As you can see, the types of homes in the family run the gamut from almost grand, to very plain and simple.
The father died a few years ago, but the mother (pictured below) is a healthy and strong old girl: a 'matriarch' for sure.
Their stories ~ the family's that is ~ could easily be similar stories to the family you will taken to visit.

(CLICK ON A PHOTO TO ENLARGE)

[jfarmer017]

I think your question is a bit silly. I mean, how can anyone here tell you what you have or whether this guy you have met is genuine or not? Even if someone did have a similar experience, it would be foolish to think their situation is generalizable simply because they both involve Thai men. Anytime somebody shows romantic interest in you, they may be genuine or they may simply be trying to get something from you. That's as true in New York and London as it is in Bangkok and Pattaya. That said, generalizations are a necessary evil, and here are a few thoughts.

Let's assume that the guy is just in it for the money and try to square that with his behavior. If he is 27 and has been working in the commercial sex industry since his late teens or early 20's, then I would say he is likely a quite seasoned professional. These types are generally aware that seeming too greedy or money-hungry is often a turn off to westerners and conversely they know that seeming to be generous with their time or bodies (e.g. a "freebie") is often very alluring to westerners. As a Thai friend of mine once said: "That's an old trick." If this is the case, the most likely red flag would be something along the lines of the old sick relative story. After messaging back and forth a while, you will suddenly get word the guy has some sick relative back home and he needs money to go visit him or her. Although, judging by how you described his behavior, doesn't really seem like the type.

Thai moneyboys are generally horrible at saving their money prudentially, so if they believe they are becoming too long in the tooth for the work, seeking out a farang boyfriend who can be a financial provider is not uncommon. I think you are making a classic mistake that farang in Thailand make, which is to assume that it has to be an either/or proposition. Is it not quite possible that the guy is generally attracted to and interested in you and enjoys your company while also looking for someone who will be a provider for him? After all, would you be equally attracted to someone with no job, no money, and no prospects as someone with a professional job who earned a good living? It is often a positive sign of other good characteristics in a partner, such as intelligence, industriousness, and self-discipline. That's just good evolutionary psychology.

You are obviously smitten with the guy and interested in pursuing something more. So I would say stick with the old Russian adage: Trust, but verify.

[Rush, Yet Again]

Adquelo, it sounds like you had a great time with this guy and that he took good care of you while you were together without attempting to turn you into his career. So the only negative part was your mind busy at work worried that he might be just acting, scamming you, and only attracted to your wallet. Sometimes itтАЩs best to ignore those voices in your head. (Unless you are a hydra of TimmbertyтАЩs . . . then those voices will go away on their own once you get back on your medication.)

Another way to look at it is that if it was all a prelude to a scam, what did that cost you? Probably little compared to the enjoyment you got out of the deal. ThatтАЩs a win/win - with an orgasm or two thrown in - in my book.

As for your trip to Issan, same same. Go for it. It will cost you nothing compared to the experience youтАЩll have and you sound intelligent enough to recognize when and if the entire trip becomes about the health of the familyтАЩs bank account. But do recognize, as jfarmer kinda pointed out, that there is undoubtedly some attraction in your being financially well-off. ThatтАЩs not necessarily just about a moneyboy landing a farang, it is part of Thai culture too. So donтАЩt let your imagination get to you if something comes up that involves a few thousand baht or less; chalk it up to experience and head for home if tens of thousands of baht enter the picture - you will still have had a great adventure.

{If you are looking for the moved posts - they are in Global - Squabble 2 - jinks}

[Brad the Impala]

As per the seasoned pros above, give it a go without too many expectations, as a fun and different experience. My first trip to my bf's home was for his celebration on becoming a monk, and yes I paid for the celebration and was happy to do so. It wasn't a lot for me, and I knew how much it meant to him. We weren't in love at the time, more like fuck buddies, but we had previously spent a couple of holidays together.

However I think the seeds of our long term relationship were sown on that trip. He, and his family, showed great kindness and scrupulous attention to my well being. The young nephew, since found to be gay, even offered to spend the night with me in the hotel in case I was lonely the first night my bf stayed in the Wat. BF said go ahead, but I was fine alone. I guess my bf also had a chance to see me in his home environment and with his family, and may have found that I wasn't a complete embarrassment.

That would be my one caveat over the trip. If possible, I would stay in a nearby hotel, but then I'm fussy!

BF and me still together, now in the UK, some twelve years later, or is it more.

However for every home trip that leads somewhere I expect there are a number that don't, but enjoy something different anyway, that's the purpose of travel.

[loke]

I agree you should go for it, visiting his family.

The only problem in a long distance relationship is that you dont know what your boy is up to when you are not arround and after all he works in a gay massage place in Pattaya. And he is experienced . most probably been working there for many years. .

So if it is true genuine love I am happy for you but the only way to find out is to live in Thailand for months , not a few weeks on a holiday. And all this "I love you" messages, well we have all heard that before, if it is true or not is up to you to find out.

[Smiles]

" ... That would be my one caveat over the trip. If possible, I would stay in a nearby hotel, but then I'm fussy! ... "
Excellent suggestion! Please yes, do that.
It's won't be seen as any kind of slight, just a farang who needs a hot shower in the morning :blackeye:

[adquelo]

Thanks to everyone that has responded.

Certainly going for the adventure in Sisaket in November and the hotel is booked! Smile A flushing toilet and hot shower are a must! Driving is going to be an experience I think!

As for where its all going? Honestly I donтАЩt know. Interesting about what Jfarmer17 said about the classic farang mistake and I guess i was doing that and you certainly made me stop and think. One thing I have got to stop doing is reading nightmare stories on the web, yes I am a realist and I know scams happen and maybe I am being taken for the worlds biggest mug, or a stupid farang that falls for the smile, but the more I read about money boys the more my head spins and doubt creeps in, drove myself nuts last night unnecessarily!

But to be honest is encouraging hearing things from you guys that a friendship / relationship can happen.

We have got to the тАЬI love you very muchтАЭ тАЬmy heart only for youтАЭ тАЬwe good togetherтАЭ messages. But with no indication, of wanting anything....yet! And uniquely if I ask if he has had any customers for massage, he will tell me. I donтАЩt ask any further than that, else as Rush has said the negatives thoughts begin. At the end of the day he does massage, I know that and accept it. No point trying to change it as a Thai person will do what they want anyway! It boils down to the dreaded word тАЬtrust.тАЭ

Finally his room, I can hear a number of you tutting at me, but IтАЩve sent him the deposit for a new room. He didnтАЩt ask I offered, I couldnтАЩt have him stopping in the hovel I got taken to, I wouldnтАЩt have boarded my cat there! IтАЩve seen pictures of the new room, and IтАЩve had confirmation from another source he is moving in. He is also so proud he told me today he has invited his mum down to stop with him for a week. Positive sign I think.

He has said he getting old now! (27 is old apparently!!!) and he wants to talk to me in November about his future. Probably means wanting something, but i donтАЩt think his command of english is that good to pull a scam. So IтАЩll just play it by ear and see what's said.

Now Reading "the best thing you can do for an Issan boy?" - with interest.

[Alex303]

For what it's worth...my advice would also be to go for it !

Farangs are all different...Thai guys are all different...there are no hard and fast rules about how to handle this, but just be sensible and keep an open mind. I think what you've said below is very positive also...reading this sort of stuff DOES mess your head up after a while.

You certainly can form long lasting relationships with these guys...its not easy at times and the cultural differences make things 'interesting' to say the least, but well worth trying!


One thing I have got to stop doing is reading nightmare stories on the web, yes I am a realist and I know scams happen and maybe I am being taken for the worlds biggest mug, or a stupid farang that falls for the smile, but the more I read about money boys the more my head spins and doubt creeps in, drove myself nuts last night unnecessarily!

But to be honest is encouraging hearing things from you guys that a friendship / relationship can happen.

[netrix]

great response smiles.

adquelo, if you're not comfortable driving in Thailand, it's easy to hire a car and driver for a few days to take you anywhere you want to go.
(smiles may even know of someone to recommend) I've been living here a year and a half and drive a motorbike but haven't been brave
enough to drive a car here yet. Get an international drivers license before your trip if you do plan to drive, and bring lots of extra baht for
tea money for the bib.