Get it out of your system.

[jinks]

So far as I am concerned when the board moves to it's new platform it moves WITHOUT Neal or mentions of him.

Use this thread to vent it all out... new platform = new beginning OK

[dante]

If anyone doesn't understand what jinks means by "new platform", because they're like me and naturally ignore the pinned announcements at the top, please see this thread:

sawatdee-hopes-dreams-important-sawatdee-update-t28947.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/sawatdee-hopes-dreams-important-sawatdee-update-t28947.html)

[Nirish guy]

So far as I am concerned when the board moves to it's new platform it moves WITHOUT Neal or mentions of him.

Use this thread to vent it all out... new platform = new beginning OK

Sounds like a great idea ! But could we not just instigate that rule right away and give all our heads peace from that boring subject perhaps, the sooner the better sounds just great as far as I'm concerned !

[joe552]

I agree with NIrish - and not just because he owes me a few beers - but I can't see the point of yet another thread bashing the former owner. Let it go, I say.

[bucknaway]

:8( What? Now we have Banned topics? If we can't talk about Neal when we want to, does that mean that administrators will not be able to go to other boards and have it out with Neal? Already an old Neal rule of no links to the PBB is re-instated and this I can't understand. No one hear is a child and we all know that all we need do is to perform a google search for Pattaya Bitch Board and we will find it.

This is a bad Omen....

No one goes to a message board to enjoy the lack of threads or topics that are banned from discussion. If dead boards were popular than we would all be at Neals Ghost-town message board. (Or is a stale message board still called a Cob-Webb?)

Hell. If this is how things change than maybe nothing has changed from Neals days here. Maybe all that is happening is that your putting lipstick on a pig and trying to pass it off as a whole new animal. :8(

[joe552]

somewhat of an over-reaction I think, Bucky. what's the problem with a fresh start? lots of other places to talk about Neal if that's what you need to do. but I've certainly read all I need to about him. it's hardly censorship - just a fresh start

[bucknaway]

We will see. I think this is just the nose of the camel under the tent.
I can look at the message board sky and tell you right here and right now that something bad is coming.

If the new board wants to kill off Neal Topics than create a "Old Sawatdee" Forum section and any mention of Neal gets moved there?

Only the very bored will exit from the main forum to go to the "Old Sawatdee" Forum section to read what others may have said related to Neal.

Maybe I am just caring too much and need to Pull Up and let it go..... What will be, will be. :dontknow:

[Smiles]

I agree with NIrish - and not just because he owes me a few beers - but I can't see the point of yet another thread bashing the former owner. Let it go, I say.
You might like it that way ... you sucked up to him shamelessly for many a moon.

I'm no advocate of any permanent place to knock the fool who owned ~ and almost ruined ~ this board for a short time, but neither do I think we need jinks unilaterally declaring a New Board Order of light, harmony, peace, order and good government.
The critique of Neal's pathetic sojourn on Sawatdee will come slowly to an end, naturally. If only jinks would just get out of the way and let it be, naturally.

[ftj_taw]

I agree with NIrish - and not just because he owes me a few beers - but I can't see the point of yet another thread bashing the former owner. Let it go, I say.
You might like it that way ... you sucked up to him shamelessly for many a moon.

Having seen you suck up to gaybutton, I agree you are an expert in what constitutes sucking up. . As for me, I see Joe as a affable guy who hardly has a bad word to say about anyone. You might say he is the complete opposite of you, and hardly a suck-up.


I'm no advocate of any permanent place to knock the fool who owned ~ and almost ruined ~ this board for a short time, but neither do I think we need jinks unilaterally declaring a New Board Order of light, harmony, peace, order and good government.
The critique of Neal's pathetic sojourn on Sawatdee will come slowly to an end, naturally. If only jinks would just get out of the way and let it be, naturally.

Ah shit, here you are right on target, but do you think Jinks will listen to you or anyone else for that matter. :dontknow:

By the way if we are talking about dumb shit owners how about you selling the board to an unemployed asshole in Florida who would let advertisers dictate what could or could not be posted on this board. Gee was that a clever move----NOT.

[joe552]

Smiles, I'd hardly call it sucking up, but yes, I was totally fooled by his online persona - but since I never met the guy, that's all I had to go on. I really don't mind one way or the other what jinks does with posts about him - like everyone else, I'm free to ignore what I don't like or am not interested in.

[newalaan2]

So far as I am concerned when the board moves to it's new platform it moves WITHOUT Neal or mentions of him.Use this thread to vent it all out... new platform = new beginning OK This is plainly absurd. I cannot see any connection between a technical Board change and a content board change. If you are saying that you and/or surfcrest want all talk of Neal ended...then just say that without the 'new platfrom' excuse and that from now on the new policy is to delete and censor content which does not meet with your or surfcrest's 'no taking about Neal' policy. 'New beginning's' success sometimes relies on remembering the historical mistakes which have gone before. I hate when things are 'dressed up' as something else......like 'new platform' = limited censorship. There is no reason other than a change of policy for declaring a subject out of bounds. While I'm quite happy for the Neal issue to be contained in a single and well marked thread the suggestion from jinks is the thin end of a wedge we have seen before here and at other forums where one censored subject leads quickly to another.....then another etc...

Also a bad Idea to start yet another thread on Neal, just pick one with the most discussion on Neal add the content of the rest of the Neal threads and leave it on the front page so that there is a place to vent frustrations, if and when those frustrations naturally subside the thread will then 'naturally' slip out of sight.

However I perhaps hope it does not....I stick with LEST WE FORGET about the worst period of ownership this forum experienced with Neal's tenure. While under Surfcrest's ownership it's clear this forum will go from strength to strength and while Neal continues to make claims and allegations on the gay forums...it still needs a place where any lies, untruths or exaggerations can be denied, explained or the record set straight.


I'm no advocate of any permanent place to knock the fool who owned ~ and almost ruined ~ this board for a short time, but neither do I think we need jinks unilaterally declaring a New Board Order of light, harmony, peace, order and good government.The critique of Neal's pathetic sojourn on Sawatdee will come slowly to an end, naturally. If only jinks would just get out of the way and let it be, naturally.
A wise and fairly balanced view. I think a place should be there for some Neal discussion, if nothing else just to save other threads being contaminated by the his dark cloud. After saying that, and the above, I think while there should be a dedicated thread, and while I fully expect that it would slip away, it wouldn't bother me if there was always a reminder in sight. But it doesn't need any pushing by mods, let it happen naturally and it becomes an non-issue, push it...and it will become an issue....that's the way life is.

[Brad the Impala]

So far as I am concerned when the board moves to it's new platform it moves WITHOUT Neal or mentions of him.

Use this thread to vent it all out... new platform = new beginning OK

Oh don't be silly. By making this statement and probably carrying it through, the effect is the reverse of what you are looking for, as you create an unspoken elephant in the room, a love or hate that dare not speak it's name! This was already dying away, but now YOU have revived it. A misconceived and ineffectual policy.

On another tack, how dare you tell the posters that this topic will be forbidden! This is not a banning on legal or commercial grounds, and why stop at Neal, why not include Gaybutton? Is this the policy of the adminstrator or of our new owner too? Will it be incorporated in the Forum Rules?! What next, preventing free comment on Property Development in Pattaya?!

[Sooty]

So far as I am concerned when the board moves to it's new platform it moves WITHOUT Neal or mentions of him.

Use this thread to vent it all out... new platform = new beginning OKHave you told Surfcrest yet? He still seems to be venting about Neal. Or is the Board now your personal plaything and damn the owner?

[Surfcrest]

Have you told Surfcrest yet? He still seems to be venting about Neal. Or is the Board now your personal plaything and damn the owner?

I'd like to think I wasn't venting about Neal but rather laying down the facts...as unbiased as I could word it.

And

I am subject to the same Rules & Guidelines as the rest of the membership, the moderator can moderate me.

Surfcrest

[scottish-guy]

.... while Neal continues to make claims and allegations on the gay forums...it still needs a place where any lies, untruths or exaggerations can be denied, explained or the record set straight.....

Yes, that is exactly the point.

It is clear that there is a daily vendetta being carried on (via PBB) against this Board, its management, and carefully selected members of this board.
Almost all of it emanates from the poster known there as "Flintstone", aided and abetted by a few other posters who are either hydras of his or acolytes.

Therefore I would be extremely unhappy if it were to become the case on SGT that there was no opportunity to expose or respond to the vile and corrosive content which more often than not, targets this board and its members.

By all means confine such comment to a specific section of this Board, but to ban it outright (as seems to be the suggestion) is merely to give carte blanche to the school bully in his latest "playground".

[Smiles]

Having seen you suck up to gaybutton, I agree you are an expert in what constitutes sucking up
Guess I'd need a few chosen examples on that one. Could you provide some?
I've been a critic of Gaybutton's heavy-moderation 'philosophy' pretty well forever. But that doesn't mean I don't post there, I do.
Gaybutton runs too tight a ship (in my opinion) but he has forever, and is consistent in his moderation style and quite unapologetic regarding his own style: that's a 'known' going in for any member who wants to post there, and by the way, I think Gaybutton would himself agree.
If you think this opinion on him is 'sucking up', then you have a very low accusation bar indeed.


By the way if we are talking about dumb shit owners how about you selling the board to an unemployed asshole in Florida who would let advertisers dictate what could or could not be posted on this board. Gee was that a clever move----NOT.
I didn't 'sell' Sawatdee to Elephantspike. I gave it to him for free ... after that it was up to him what he did with it. Elephantspike chose to put ads on Sawatdee, and that was his call.
He then ran Sawatdee very successfully from 2005 until Neal purchased it in 2011 ... a pretty good run I'd say.
Your comment regarding "letting advertisers dictate ..." is an opinion only, and an iffy one at that.

[Beachlover]

By making this statement and probably carrying it through, the effect is the reverse of what you are looking for, as you create an unspoken elephant in the room, a love or hate that dare not speak it's name! This was already dying away, but now YOU have revived it. A misconceived and ineffectual policy.

On another tack, how dare you tell the posters that this topic will be forbidden! This is not a banning on legal or commercial grounds, and why stop at Neal, why not include Gaybutton? Is this the policy of the adminstrator or of our new owner too? Will it be incorporated in the Forum Rules?! What next, preventing free comment on Property Development in Pattaya?!
I agree... quite a sensible and logical opinion.

Why not just let this stuff progress naturally? I don't see many posts about Neal now.


It is clear that there is a daily vendetta being carried on (via PBB) against this Board, its management, and carefully selected members of this board.
A vendetta? Maybe a bit more perspective is needed.

I agree the rule is stupid... But honestly, why do you get riled by another board attacking SGF?

I've been posting here for five years, contributed more content than anyone (yes... I know people will start on about quality/quantity) and I don't get offended by the "anti-SGF" posts made over there at all. Most of the stuff they post about SGF is so stupid, why you would let yourself get worked up, I don't know. "Anti-SGF" posts have been made on Baht-Stop for years too. Who cares?!

Now in terms of Surf posting about Neal... well, I take no sides in whatever they're arguing about now but I can understand anyone wanting to respond to accusations of theft, fraud etc.

But a few stupid piss takes and opinion-based jabs about the mods or software decisions here isn't outrage-worthy... Posters can take the piss out of me or the board I post on as much as they like. Doesn't impact my life in the slightest.

[scottish-guy]

Really, this is rich coming from a poster who blanks out parts of his holiday snaps in case a fucking key-fob gives away any hint of his identity - but apparently doesn't think it "worthy of outrage" that photographs of Gaybutton are published on PBB without his permission and appeals put out for photographs of Surfcrest so that they too can be published without permission.

How do you square that one, beachlover?

:dontknow:

[Brad the Impala]

SG starting to sound sanctimonious. The photos of GB at the charity event were posted on this board already.

Don't know why you are so obsessive about, and "shocked" by, all the varieties of the bitchboards, and then dragging their trivia back here. Best to just leave them alone.

[adman5000]

I do not take any offense at what Jinx suggested and think it is better to let the aftermath of DaBoss past and current activities die a natural death. I think others have some valid points about establishing a place to respond to the unfortunate postings on PBB. But I think that would give DaBoss exactly what he seeks-to rile us up, to get us bashing each other's opinions, to flaming up about things he says about individuals on SGT. I think it is sad that someone would choose to live out their declining days this way when they could choose to walk away and use their money and energy to help ones less fortunate all around them in Thailand. So I think the higher road for us is to ignore PBB. don't visit it, don't read it, and certainly don't respond to it.
Instead take that same energy and put it towards this board and show DaBoss how GOOD this board can be. That with appropriate moderation we can get along and make contributions to others in our postings. Let's look in the mirror and use the same effort to make our own postings more useful. Let's not join him in the mud.
But.... if we absolutely feel we have to respond and can't let comments go unanswered, how about if we add a section called PBB DaButtals? :bootyshake:

[scottish-guy]

The photos of GB at the charity event were posted on this board already...

I take your point about GB's photos being posted here - but presumably that was with his permission as those are the rules of this board (Rule 3 to be precise). If that is not the case, l'd like to know who broke that rule and published them (assuming that Rule 3 was in force at the time).

Notwithstanding that, I have some difficulty believing that GB would give his permission to PBB to publish his photographs - so I believe my criticism that the photos were published without permission still stands.

Further, I am certain that if PBB manage to secure the photographs of Surfcrest which they have appealed for, and publish them, it will be completely without his permission also.

Your position on both these privacy issues (on supposedly anonymous boards) seems to be that it doesn't really matter and it's "sanctimonious" to even talk about it - which I find strange :dontknow:

[Gaybutton]

I have some difficulty believing that GB would give his permission to PBB to publish his photographs - so I believe my criticism that the photos were published without permission still stands.
I'll clarify it for you. With the exception of a couple Pattaya Gay Festival photos in which I appeared in group photos, but was not identified, I have never been asked for permission and have never given my permission for photos of me to be posted on this or any other board. That includes the "Gunk GB for Charity" photos, which originally appeared on the Ting & Tong's Gay Thailand board. No one ever asked me a thing.

I'm sure the people who post photos of others without first seeking permission would be the first ones to start screaming if anyone does the same thing to them.

[scottish-guy]

Thank you for the clarification GB.

I'm totally unsurprised about PBB publishing your pics without permission - but I'm dismayed to learn that your pic/s on this board were also posted without permission.

I wonder who it was then that published your photographs on this forum without your permission and contrary to Rule 3?

A quick search reveals this (the thread is locked and I can not "quote" as normal):

Thread Title: Giving out Bad Advice Feb 2013 - OP by "Stan" (we can address who "Stan" is at a later date lol)

Ainamor: I don't know who edited my post and attached the photo of GB being gunked to my post but it certainly wasn't me.

Neal: ..Someone then sent the picture to me in a PM so I added it....If you have another, send it and I will post it for you.

I presume this is the thread to which Brad refers - if not please advise.

[Brad the Impala]

Confusion of issues here.

The copyright of a photo taken in a public place resides in the photographer, not the subject. Permission is not therefore required to post it online. Sunee Plaza or the street is clearly a public place. I would think that exterior beer bars would also be considered public places, but don't take my word for it!

However some forums have a policy of not posting details of posters and others, including photos, unless the subject has given their approval. This is not a legal requirement under copyright/privacy laws. They would only come into effect if the photo was taken in a place where the subject had a reasonable expectation of privacy, like in someone's home, or inside a restaurant.

[scottish-guy]

No confusion here - as far as the Rules of this board are concerned seems pretty clear cut to me:

(3) Privacy
The Board takes it's Members' privacy and identity very seriously and will protect it in so far as it is possible. 'Personal privacy' includes:
last names
phone numbers, email and residence addresses
unauthorized Members' photographs
any other information which might reasonably be expected to lead to the identification a individual
None of the intrusions outlined above are allowed in any post on Sawatdee.
(A Member may however, agree to allow a portion (or all) of their own personal information to be posted. The member must inform the Administrator of such an allowance before it has been posted).

[Khor tose]

del

[Brad the Impala]

Spelling it out with numbers to dispel confusion!

Issue 1. Legal Position

Issue 2. Individual Forum Policy

For example posting GB's photos here without permission may break the forum guidelines, but it doesn't break the law.

Posting GB's photos on a bitch board does not break the law, and may well break or not break the guidelines, if they have any! Who cares about their forum? The answer seems to be that you do, given your need to keep everyone updated on the latest "shocking" bad behaviour like some third rate soap opera. That's the sanctimious part.

"I drove past a terrible road accident last night. It was so bad that I just had to drive past several more times so that I could see all the details!"

I actually think that these photos were first posted several years ago, they've been posted on several forum, and are clearly in the public domain, and actually show GB in a positive light, as someone who was prepared to make fun of himself for charity.

[scottish-guy]

I don't need it spelled out in numbers, pictures, or even in diagrams, thanks.

I'm not posting about the legal definition of copyright or photo-approval and neither is anybody else.
I'm posting about photos of GB posted on PBB and I'm posting also about how the rules of this board appear to have been broken in relation to the same photo/s.

I already said that I'm not surprised at anything PBB does but I am dismayed to find (from GB) that his pics were posted without permission on this forum which has specific rules prohibiting the posting of "unauthorised" photographs of members. Now that I found the thread I realise why I did not pick up on it at the time - I was away on holiday.

Given that GB is a member here and given that he has told us that he did not authorise the posting of the pic/s (in fact he protested about it at the time) it seems clear that the rules were broken.

So I looked back to see who had done this - and the answer is clear and unsurprising

I'm sorry if it bores you Brad, and Timmberty but I happen to feel strongly that a Board which puts rules in place ought to make sure they are adhered to and not broken.

[Gaybutton]

he protested about it at the time
I really didn't care about the pics themselves being posted. After all, those pics were sitting on Ting & Tong for years and for all I know maybe other boards too. Also, many people know who I am anyway. What I protested was the fact that the rules on this board seemed to apply to everyone except me. And you're right - the rules quite clearly were violated.

I also didn't protest about it on Ting & Tong either, although I was surprised that I wasn't asked first, especially since I agreed to do it as a favor for that board's owner and because it was for a legitimate charity. I would do it again too if I think it's for a good enough cause. Lord knows, plenty of people would love to gunk terrible old me. The charity would make a fortune . . .

I don't see it as a legal issue. There's nothing illegal about it. I see it as a matter of common courtesy.

As far as what is said about me on that bitch board, I couldn't care less. I very rarely bother with it at all. If I want to waste my time, I have many ways to do it besides reading what a half dozen or so sick misfits want to spend their time posting. If people actually believe all that nonsense, let them. Although it would be the easiest thing in the world to do, I haven't written so much as even one retaliatory post.

By the way, I wonder if those geniuses realize that in Thailand defamation is a felony . . .

[newalaan2]

I would do it again too if I think it's for a good cause. Lord knows, plenty of people would love to gunk terrible old me . .
Wow that's extremely generous of you.......I'm in Pattaya quite soon, could a private sitting be arranged? Is my personal satisfaction a good enough cause or would it have to be for an actual registered charity? Perhaps my donation could go to the 'one knee shuffle sufferers association'.

[Gaybutton]

could a private sitting be arranged?
Certainly. Just one question - is there a limit to the amount of gunk I get to dump on you . . . ?

[Surfcrest]

.....Just in case anyone forgets, on Feb 1st 2013 ainamorтАЩs post was edited by Neal against ainamorтАЩs wishes to publish these photos.


And now Flinstone responds to my assertions about the Domain Transfer;


It is ONE LIE after another, but the funny part is that I still have your money so bitch all you want but really you should stop twisting events so that you constantly look like the jilted one Mr Kent,Tweety or Ton. Just call yourself Mr Surfcrust or are hydras forbidden except for you.

Added to the hydra list; justme, UnkieBuck, Happy Place, Stan, Neal, CaptnCrunch, Flintstone, Beach Bitch, Witchesbrew, Big Jack and lying to us while using some of these hydras that he was not Neal.



Lying to get possession of the board. Yup he may not have gotten possession of the board but as I said before he pissed me off so I opened another one.

Just in case anyone forgets, he had made arrangements to open the new board while he was still here and using our PM system to promote it privately to our membership.



I just love all these lies and half truths that come out of the Scumbags mouth named Surfcrest. Today he post just a few of the emails that went back and forth between us in purchasing domain names and promises all of which he lied about.

Let's review:

1. Promised that jinks would not be reinstated as moderator.
2. Promised Smiles would not be reinstated as moderator.
3. Promised to honor advertisers who had paid for thier ads until March 1, 2014
4. Promised that he would keep threads on track and not allow bashing of either myself or Butterflyforever.

My God how many hours did it take him to LIE and break each and every promise?

And now Neal finally comes clean and lists the terrible LIES that he alleges I told him.

1. When I told Neal I was interested in buying the board from him he asked me if I had been talking to jinks, asking him to return as moderator. At that point, I wasnтАЩt even sure if the sale was even going to go through (look who I was dealing with) and so no, discussions werenтАЩt happening with anyone about anything at that time.
2. Smiles as moderator? We only have one moderator and that is jinks.
3. All the ads, remain upтАж.except the Computer Fix It guy, as his contract had expired.
4. I made no such promise of how the board would be run. I paid far more than what the board was worth in the ruin that he left it, why would I agree to conditions? Yes, the intention was to honour the work Neal did for the board despite all the restтАж.but we all know what heтАЩs been up to since his admin privileges were revoked. ItтАЩs all there is print, a written testament by the man and of the man he really is. How pathetic! As for ButterflyforeverтАжтАжwho?

Then there is the $ 150 US re-direction charge I had to incur when this idiot provided the wrong banking information for me to deposit the money at the time of sale. And the emails I received from this crazy man while he waited for this money to be re-sent, claiming he lived on a meager disability pension instead of the Shangri-la guy he wants you to think he is. Pathetic!

Surfcrest

[scottish-guy]

could a private sitting be arranged?
Certainly. Just one question - is there a limit to the amount of gunk I get to dump on you . . . ?


You did mean gunk didn't you - it's not a mis-spelled sexual suggestion?

[scottish-guy]

Make your own judgement:

http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/post267451.html#p267451

[jinks]

Gunk = From above, sometimes in a booth, mostly kids shows. They did use it in Noels House Party years ago.

Noel, copied many ideas from Rowen and Martin.. the US connection for GB.

[timmberty]

Make your own judgement:

http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/post267451.html#p267451

thanks for the link .. now having seen the picture here, i still have no idea what gaybutton looks like !!
would anyone else who doesnt know the man think they could pick him out of an i.d. parade on the evidence of that photo?

[scottish-guy]

Yes, Timmberty that is exactly Flintstone's argument - but it is fundamentally flawed.

I will quote the rule again:

The Board takes it's Members' privacy and identity very seriously and will protect it in so far as it is possible. 'Personal privacy' includes:
last names
phone numbers, email and residence addresses
unauthorized Members' photographs



Therefore the only salient questions are:

Q: Is it a photograph of a member - i.e. Gaybutton?

A: Yes, it is labelled "gaybuttongunked.jpg" and the context of the preceding and subsequent posts indicates it is of Gaybutton.

B: Is its reproduction authorised?

A: No - in fact Gaybutton himself subsequently intervenes in the thread and points out that the photo is of him and that it is unauthorised, yet the Admin who posted it does not remove it.

Clearly the photograph IS of a member (Gaybutton), clearly is IS unauthorised, and (in my opinion) clearly Rule 3 HAS been broken by the Admin whether the pic is crystal clear or otherwise.

[timmberty]

yes i know it was flitstones argument . which i hadnt even read about untill it was all posted on here !!
you do a better job promotiing that board than i do ...

the photos beachy posts on here ... some of them have arms and legs of people sitting in chairs .. how come they are being allowed to be shown ?? im sure there are some facial features shown aswell..

and before you bother to say it ... how do you know they arnt members on here ???

i must also add, i think up untill now i have never seen gaybutton asking for the photo to removed let alone complain that it is on here .... should it be removed now ?

you seem to have taken offence on his behalf very badly ... mind you, you do like getting upset for other people.

[scottish-guy]

Gaybutton can speak for himself - the fact is he pointed out at the time that it was unauthorised and it ought to have been removed on that basis. Whether he is content for it to remain now is immaterial.

Yes I do get annoyed on other people's behalf - I used to get annoyed about the vile abuse posted about Neal over on PBB, and I frequently posted about that too as you may remember

[Brad the Impala]

whether the pic is crystal clear or otherwise.

Crystal clear that it's otherwise!

No one is making a big deal of this except you.

If you could just acknowledge that your hard on for the bitch boards is because they take the piss out of "carefully selected members". The more you react, the more fun they have, and the more you draw attention to their forum of bitterness and bile.

[timmberty]

yes you certainly did ... you have more than made up for it by now mind !!!
actually i seem to recall seeing that picture of mister button posted on here before ... it would be intresting to find out the date it was posted ... if it was before neals time you might need to give jinks a bit of a tongue lashing ..

[scottish-guy]

It's mighty strange why the "bored" and "disinterested" people keep coming on to the thread like moths to a light :dontknow:

Timmberty, if you have evidence that it was posted on SGT before - fine - post it - that's what I did.

I assure you I didn't search all 255 pages of the Gay Thailand forum - be my guest.

[timmberty]

may i just add in case i forget at a later date, how nice it is to see you and gaybutton getting along so well again ? did you ever get on well before ? i just seem to recall the pair of you fighting all the time ... cant beat joining forces to beat the new enemy .

[kjun12]

[quote="joe552"the fool who owned ~ and almost ruined ~ this board
There you go. Talking about yourself again.


Neal's pathetic sojourn on Sawatdee
He was certainly no worse than you. You were a total ass.

[scottish-guy]

may i just add in case i forget at a later date, how nice it is to see you and gaybutton getting along so well again ? did you ever get on well before ? i just seem to recall the pair of you fighting all the time ... cant beat joining forces to beat the new enemy .

Gaybutton and I did not fight all the time as you suggest - although we never got on well as you sarcastically put it, we mostly ignored each other with occasional skirmishes.

Perhaps that's the difference between you and I - if I see someone being badly treated I will speak up irrespective of whether he's a "friend" or not :dontknow:

In fact, I don't see people in terms of friends or enemies, I don't live in that black and white world - there are people I like more than others but I don't regard anybody as an enemy - get real, it's a message board!

[cdnmatt]

I'm a little confused as to why the people over at PBB think photos of GB getting "gunked" are something to point and laugh at?

"OMG! Look, he's going out of his way for charity and a noble cause! hehehe" ... huh???

[Gaybutton]

i just seem to recall the pair of you fighting all the time
We did? Strange. Would you be kind enough to point out any posts submitted by me in which I was fighting with scottish-guy?

Even if that were true, when I was a child, almost every time I or another child got into a fight, the next day it was over and everybody was friends again. I notice on these boards it doesn't work that way. I suppose we've all "matured" out of that because when people get angry with each other on these boards there's almost never such a thing as getting over it, working it out, or making up. Very rare for that to happen. Most of the time you just end up on each other's shit list and stay on it the rest of your life.

Hatred seems to be very self perpetuating on these boards. Is that really the way it's supposed to be? When it's gotten to a point at which a board was actually created for people to get together, gang up on others, and post the most disgusting abuse ever seen on these boards, then something is really wrong. Do we really hate each other that much?

One thing we all have in common is being gay. We get enough abuse hurled at us from the straight world, but the lengths some go to in attempts to destroy each other is often much worse than anything non-gays do. I'm not going to participate in that. I'm not going to participate in hurling abuse at others and I'm not going to let those who do it to me put me on the defensive.

[newalaan2]

Perhaps that's the difference between you and I - if I see someone being badly treated I will speak up irrespective of whether he's a "friend" or not In fact, I don't see people in terms of friends or enemies, I don't live in that black and white world - but I don't regard anybody as an enemy - get real, it's a message board!
Yes me too....rights and wrongs have nothing to do with 'friendship' if something is clearly wrong it should be said, one reason Neal and I were never going to 'get along' he hated when honesty was brought into situations, but also if something is right it should be said irrespective of 'personalities'.

But apart from that.......this is wonderful news! Does this mean I'm off your ignore? Or was I never on and you were just playing me along? It's just that I thought the ignore function was also referred to as having a 'foe'. Of course it has to be said that this new found 'non-enemy' status will not affect posting content in any way.

Mr Gaybutton doesn't seem to mind this photos being posted as they are on Gaytingtong anyway, but there is a much larger principal regarding privacy and invasion here, and although a great number of Board Rules/guidelines are too strict and some minor ones probably pointless, privacy is one of the main basic principals of forums using 'anonymous' handles and probably one of the few rules I would say should be 'set in stone'. If a member posts pics of himself or agrees in advance to have them in the public domain then fine. Although I doubt there could be any legal comeback the Board does have some ability to control it through mods/owner taking action. It's much like the Personal Message being 'private' argument, it is one of the few things on this or any forum which should be enforced strictly to the rules.

So is SG being a bit fussy and pedantic regarding GB's photos?.....of course he is...that's what he does........especially given as GB doesn't seem to mind....Is he correct to fiercely protect the 'personal privacy' rule here? You betcha. Scottish-guy and I always have been at loggerheads for years and no doubt will continue to be, but this is one where I put that aside and say he is right on the money. The overall principal is far greater than the incident itself.


there are people I like more than others
Oh..I just noticed this bit.....does that mean things are "as they were"? Oh well, I can live with that.


One thing we all have in common is being gay. We get enough abuse hurled at us from the straight world, but the lengths some go to in attempts to destroy each other is often much worse than anything non-gays do.
There are many ways to destroy eachother on these 'gay' boards....one of the worst being the abuse of power where individuals bully, sensor and delete the opinion of others in a control-freak way which LEADS to the frustration which LEADS to abuse......you need to look at the source for that aggression....members here and on other forums are not 'naturally' aggressive....those 'conditions' are set up which lead to it. You are not in any way innocent of not inciting, so please spare us an 'abuse hurling' speech. On this forum there is a basic right to reply under the new owner. There are pompous, self-centred individuals posting on gay forums who act as if 'they own the bloody place' and clearly need a bit of balanced wing-clipping, you may describe that as 'abuse' I describe it as 'what's good for the goose...etc' If they are prepared to dish it out by whatever method...bullying, controlling, posting.......they'll just have to 'suck up' the fallout they create.

[Sooty]

"the fool who owned ~ and almost ruined ~ this boardThere you go. Talking about yourself again.
Neal's pathetic sojourn on SawatdeeHe was certainly no worse than you. You were a total ass.Good lord Smiles I didn't realise you and I are on the same "(Richard Nixon-style) Enemies List" that kjun12 maintains. How does that make you feel??

[Gaybutton]

You are not in any way innocent of not inciting, so please spare us an 'abuse hurling' speech.
No, I'm not going to spare you. This all needs to change and it needs to stop. That includes me and it includes you and it includes everybody else who tries to justify things being this way. I don't see any valid reason why people can't disagree with each other and debate each other without all this hatred. I'm aware that some of it is my fault. I don't deny that. Many are to blame. But what do you want to do, use it as an excuse for it to continue ad infinitum or would you like to see it stop?

Even if timberty is correct that scottish-guy and I hated each other, now we're criticized because the hatchet has been buried and now we don't hate each other?

[Sooty]

One thing we all have in common is being gay.We all like cock rather than cunt. So what? I'm certainly not going to stop calling someone a fool, if that's what he is, just because we favor one piece of anatomy in common. In my country there are gay Conservatives and gay Labourites. I have nothing in common with the values of my political opponents no matter that the preferred orifice that receives their cock is the same one I prefer. This is just a shoddy attempt to shut down a discussion.

[timmberty]

Even if timberty is correct that scottish-guy and I hated each other, now we're criticized because the hatchet has been buried and now we don't hate each other?

hate is of course the wrong word, as you dont even know each other ... lets call it virtual hate, now lets work out why you are now virtual buddies ... well not so tough to work out is it ? scotty and yourself now 'like' neal a little less than you like each other.. i find it strange as i wouldnt try to befriend someone i dont/didnt like because i have now found someone i like even less.
scotty comes across as a person who needs an ememy to feed off ... i can honestly say he is the only person i have known on the message boards who needs to feel a bit of evil to be happy posting.

gaybutton, it would be nice if we could all get along and all be lovey dovey, sadly life isnt like that. in life sometimes you have to listen to people you dont want to listen to, and they might have a go at you for whatever reason ..
sadly in real life you cant just make them dissapear if you snap your fingers.

we are lucky on this board that we can have the argument, sometimes arguments can be very healthy, i know married people who swear an argument a day keeps their marriage alive ... you should allow the odd one on your board, rather than the staid white wall approach.

anyhow this post is called get it out of your system, which is what people are doing... so its all good. but be open about why you do what you do ... no need to bullshit .. we all have eyes, its easy to suss out whats being done and why.

[Gaybutton]

lets call it virtual hate, now lets work out why you are now virtual buddies
Call it what you wish. You're not "working out" anything. You're not a mind reader so you can only guess. I know it is unrealistic to expect those kinds of posts to just come to a screeching halt, but to see it sink to the level it's become, I'm hoping people will at least give it some thought. As I said, I'm not going to participate in that kind of posting and I'm not going to start writing "defending myself" posts or retaliatory posts. I've been the subject of non-stop attacks for well over a decade, so it's nothing new to me and quite frankly I couldn't care less. I'm by far not the only one who comes under attack. But I do hate to see what I thought is supposed to be a gay community sink to that level. Fortunately, only a very few people and their hydras are doing that.

[scottish-guy]

Oh but Timmberty surely IS a mind reader - or at least thinks himself so:

First of all he tells me that Gaybutton and I "hated" each other (virtually or otherwise) - which is completely untrue (I can only speak from my side). I don't hate or even dislike Gaybutton - I never have, and any interaction between us has been restricted to a bare handful of posts which have been robust but never poisonous (at least I never regarded them as such)

Secondly, he tells me that GB and I are now "virtual buddies" which again is news to me. Let me tell you something - Gaybutton and I have never even exchanged a PM and we may never do so. We are no more "buddies" than we are "enemies". It just so happens that as far as recent and current events are concerned over at PBB I think he has been treated abominably (as has Surfcrest) - and when I see that kind of appalling behaviour I'm prepared to say so irrespective of the degree of friendship I have with any person.

Thirdly - he tells me that I "need an enemy" - this is despite me pointing out that I do not regard anybody as an enemy and certainly not on a message board, and despite Timmberty knowing absolutely nothing about me

Fourthly, he tells me what motivates my posting - the desire to "need to feel a bit of evil" - again the amateur psychology, which is so far from the truth it is unreal. I also post over on Gay Thailand, never have an argument with anybody, and my "Like" quotient is pretty high.

The only thing that shines through from Timmberty's post with all its talk of "enemies", "hate", "bullshit" and "evil" - together with the paranoid delusion that people are "ganging up" on the Great Pretender over the water - is that although Timmy may be the ventriloquist's doll mouthing the words, we all know whose hand is up its arse.

[timmberty]

ok scotty fair enough ... i take it you being robust is what i might take as being nasty .. different stokes for different folks n all that.
as for gaybutton being treated badly over there .. i agree i even made the point of saying so over there... maybe you could go over there and tell them so ... or do you just like to keep on bringing over there over here ..
you might have noticed i have on many many occasions asked you why you keep being up over there over here as i find it all so boring ?? but you cant stop doing it, why do you do it, ive still never really understood.
you are right i know nothing about you in real life .. you might be a great guy, but as is often said you can only judge people on how you do know them ... i find you to be an out and out ass licker ... you will not agree of course .. tho your
little battles with neal over his poppers use were pretty nasty, tho wrong word cause you dont do nasty.
you hated him loved him now hate him again cause hes the outsider now ... all wrong words cause you dont hate or love anyone ..
i dont give a fuck what you say about neal, cant you work that out ... im mearly pointing out how two faced you are .. and neal is the perfect example for me to use ...
then for all the i dont know you crap you give out, you end it all by saying im doing all this because neal wants me to ?
so wheres the proof of that then. what would be the point in me sticking up for him ? you think surfcest would give up and let him have the board back ?

again ive pointed out many times how boring mentioning the goings on of the bb over here .. try and work out its you that keeps it going, not me.

p.s. i have now got it out of my system .. i have no reason to carry on this argument .. as we have had the same one before .. it bores me. .. you shall have to find someone else to play with now ...
if the bb is of such great concern to you go and tell them .. give the members over here a rest.

[scottish-guy]

Get this through your head Timmberty - it's the last time I'm going to tell you - I don't love or hate anybody on the basis of knowing them on this board or any other.

I restrict love and hate to people I know well and in the flesh - and even out of those there are only a handful I truly love and none at all that I hate.

If you are telling me that you become emotionally attached to people whom you know only on a message board to the extent that you love or hate them then I'm sorry, but you need some kind of counselling. If you're not telling me that then why do you ascribe that kind of psychotic behaviour to me?

[timmberty]

ok one last one .. nice side step ... well done .. moving swiftly on :tongue3:

[Gaybutton]

I think it's irrelevant whether it is labeled hate posting or something else. The point I'm trying to make is this kind of nonsense does a disservice and is destructive to the entire Thailand gay community. My opinion would be the same even if I was not a victim of attack posts at all. If anyone has good reason to retaliate, I do, but I have no intention of having anything to do with posts and posters who apparently have the mind of 12 year old and/or simply are desperately sick individuals with deep psychological problems. At least most of it is confined to one board.

[Tierman]

The point I'm trying to make is this kind of nonsense does a disservice and is destructive to the entire Thailand gay community.
This would appear to be a strong overstatement. Only a small percentage of Gays in Thailand and otherwise post on any board.

[Sooty]

... the entire Thailand gay community.There's no such thing! You're trying to use our common love of cock to impose a narrow ideology of how we should behave towards each other.

[Gaybutton]

There's no such thing! You're trying to use our common love of cock to impose a narrow ideology of how we should behave towards each other.
I think there is such a thing. And I'm not trying to impose anything. How could I possibly do that? Since you disagree with my thinking about how we should behave, let's hear how you think we should behave towards each other.

[Beachlover]

I assume everyone's talking about this thread: giving-out-bad-advice-t28029-30.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/giving-out-bad-advice-t28029-30.html)

In my view, posting GB's photo broke board policy, even if his face was obscured. I didn't know the photo was available on the GTT board or whatever. If it was, then maybe linking to it would've been borderline ok.

Is it worth a mention? Yes. Is it worth making a big deal of it now? No... that was done by the previous owner. Can't be undone. SGF has a new owner now.

What the previous owner also did was allow certain businesses from a business owner with an extremely shady and unethical past to advertise here. He knew the history. He heard first hand accounts from the people involved. He believed these accounts to be true. But he still gave into intimidation and was sweet talked into it and that was very telling about his level of integrity. I guess the new owner will need to decide whether he will continue with that.

[Beachlover]

is destructive to the entire Thailand gay community.
get-out-your-system-t28951-45.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/get-out-your-system-t28951-45.html)
Ah, this is just my opinion but some greater perspective is needed here...

In my view, whatever happens on these boards doesn't impact the "entire Thailand gay community" in the slightest.

"Gay Thailand" consists of many sub-communities and scenes. Some interlinked, some not at all connected.

OPEN your eyes... You have the middle class gay scene. There is an upper middle class gay scene. You have the working class gay scene. There's the university student scene. There's the younger 20s-30s partying scene. These are fairly interlinked. Then you have the older and middle aged gay community. These are primarily Thai-dominated scenes. By and large, foreigners of Asian origin like myself interact these scenes fairly seamlessly. Some farangs too.

Most of the online activity around that plays out on Facebook, not sites like these (though they do exist).

You also have the farang related scenes. You get some gay farangs in Thailand who really only interact with other farangs. They live there but have no interest in genuinely socialising or assimilating with Thais. You also get farangs who spend most of their time with other Thais and develop rich friendships and circles of friends with them. This happens both in Thailand and abroad.

There's the non-commercial prostitution scenes (i.e. freelance moneyboys). Then there is the commercial prostitution scenes (i.e. bars and erotic massage venues). Both Thai and farang and those that cater to both. These scenes tend to be more isolated than the other scenes.

The community you see on these boards has little to no links to 90% or more of the sub-communities above and hence impacts less than 10% of the "entire gay Thailand community".

These boards have no connection to gay uni students who go out partying every night, or middle class gay guys who hang out and socialise and maybe go out clubbing once or twice a month. Nor does it affect the majority of gay tourists, some couples, some single who visit Thailand and generally keep to themselves or go clubbing - they don't go near the gogo bars in Pattaya or Bangkok and have no interest in that. It doesn't affect the older gay middle-class Thai guys, most of who have either settled down with a partner or a close circle of friends and generally assimilate with mainstream society without being noticed.

Most of what's written is also restricted to a very narrow 5-10% sub-scene of the overall gay scene in Thailand.

While there is quite a bit to learn from these boards, they generally offer a very narrow and limited perspective of gay life in Thailand and Thai people overall...

I'm not saying that's a problem that needs to be fixed. It's just something people should remain aware of, rather than being ignorant and coming to conclusions on the whole of "gay Thailand" based on the very limited and narrow experience they or people they read have chosen to restrict themselves to.

[Sooty]

There's no such thing! You're trying to use our common love of cock to impose a narrow ideology of how we should behave towards each other.I think there is such a thing. And I'm not trying to impose anything. How could I possibly do that? Since you disagree with my thinking about how we should behave, let's hear how you think we should behave towards each other.I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in prescribing how people should behave towards one another and believe that we should not have an interest in giving out those prescriptions. I leave that to lawyers and religions. Someone told me once they refer to you as The Grand Ayatollah. I think that's really apt and your postings evidence that.

[bucknaway]

http://youtu.be/CD8EtvWW8nw

http://youtu.be/CD8EtvWW8nw