Non-offable boys

[christianpfc]

Non-offable boys

As if I hadnтАЩt had enough trouble and deception and disappointment in finding sex (IтАЩm not even talking about love!) in Thailand, now I became a victim of the тАЬnon-offable boyтАЭ as well.

Saturday 18.05.2013

After having sat at Hotmale bar (water, 40 Baht) for two hours and observing the passing traffic, I stroll through Soi Twilight and there he is, the boy of my dreams at Scorpion Bar! He even smiles at me and invites me to the bar. I ponder if I should go eat first but it is starting to rain, so I enter. Another boy sits next to me and asks if I would like a massage (neck and shoulder), I agree. After massage, he asks for 100 Baht tip, which I give him. Should he have mentioned that the massage is not for free or should I have asked if the massage is for free? But thatтАЩs not my point.

I ask him to call over the cute boy and offer him (the cute boy) a drink. The cute boy does not speak English, so I try in Thai, only to learn that he is Vietnamese. Communication was impossible, I tried in English and Thai, he didnтАЩt understand anything I said and I only understood тАЬmai ruuтАЭ, so everything reported furthers is translated by staff (it seems he understands their Thai).

He is 18 years old (but could be underage, I should have had my request to see the passport translated, so I could be sure about age and know how long and how often he has been in Thailand).After fruitless attempts at conversation, I ask to off him. I wonтАЩt let language problems between us.

Staff member one says he cannot go off because he is new boy, only drinking and talking (if you speak Vietnamese!).

There is a slight probability that the Vietnamese boy I had in Fresh Boys last year badmouthed me because we had a very unpleasant negotiation of his tip (he wanted 2000 for short time, I finally shoved him out of my hotel room with 1600) and this message spread via other boys to this boy.

I donтАЩt give up, wait until another staff member walks past and ask again. Same answer. Finally, they call the owner. He is Thai, but lives in Paris most of the time (he is fluent in Thai, English and French as far as I can judge and has local knowledge of Paris, so I believe him that he speaks Chinese and Vietnamese as well). The cute boy is family (whatever that means) and cannot go off at all, not now and not later. He has been working there for almost a month (didnтАЩt notice him before, should have asked to see his passport!) and returns to Vietnam every 30 days to get a new visa.

Now I wonder: how does he earn money if he canтАЩt be offed? I even wonder how other Vietnamese boys who can be offed, but have to do a visa run every 30 days, can come out with a positive balance (even if they get 2000 for short time).

I pay for our drinks (orange juice, 100 Baht each), no tip for waiter, no tip for boy. I donтАЩt go to bars to drink or to chat with boys (if I could speak Vietnamese), I go to off!

I should have told the owner that I feel deceived.

After four years of whoring around in Thailand, I became slightly jaded, so the moments are rare that I see a boy and within milliseconds I know тАЬthis one and nobody else for tonight!тАЭ. This is the second time it happened this year.

[bucknaway]

I enjoyed that post so much! I can't stop laughing! :notworthy:

[Brad the Impala]

Thanks Christian for sharing your frustrations. It may be the situation that the object of your lust is already spoken for. Possibly is the owner's boy. Bizarre as it may seem, the owner may feel that he is safer in the bar under the eyes of his staff, than out of sight with his own friends somewhere else. He may be a trophy in a golden, alright gilt, cage.

He may alternatively be so prized that he is not available to all and sundry for occasional offs, but is perhaps looking longer term......and higher.

[jfarmer017]

A few thoughts, which may or may not have anything to do with your particular situation:

1) As a general rule, hosts have more leeway to refuse customers than traditional "go-go" boys.

2) If a guy does not want to go off with somebody for some reason, it is not unusual for staff to make something up to keep the customer from losing face.

3) The commercial sex industry in Bangkok geared towards foreigners is a relatively small group and word travels fast. I think big arguments over relatively small amounts of money are self-defeating. Four hundred baht after all is only only $12 or $13 USD.

4) If I was having regular difficulty finding satisfying sexual partners in Bangkok, I would probably examine what role my behavior was having before looking at what others were doing (or not doing) to me.

5) Even though the sex business is a business, it's still a business that involves human beings, and most human beings (regardless of language or national origin) do not like being treated like objects who are always available for a price.

6) A guy asking for a tip after giving a massage is absolutely standard in "the industry."

[adman5000]

Christianpfc, Thank you for sharing your experience.

I agree wtih JFarmer017 and I think in his last comment he is being too polite. Let me be blunt. I think you are being too cheap. If the boy who gave you a massage had to "ask" for 100 baht tip, and you did not tip the waiter or the boy you were interested in, do you think you improved your future chances at this bar? I think not. Also, you allowed another boy to touch you first, you probably were observed being surprised at being asked to tip 100 baht, THEN expressed an interest in the boy you really wanted. I would have asked to have the wanted boy to sit with you immediately.
Also on leaving, I would have tipped the waiter or captain. In fact, sometimes when I decide to off a boy and then sometimes upon leaving see another boy I am even more interested in, I slip him a tip and smile. Now who do you think he will remember next time?
I would consider testing my suggestion. I understand you may be on a tight budget. But then don't go out as often, but when you do, be a lot more generous. I know it took me a while to become this way because 100 baht or 200 baht seemed like so much. But when you consider what it is in your home currency, it is a small amount. Also try buying a drink for someone who can help you such as the captain.
As you say you are not going to drink or talk to boys but to off. Well, if you aren't being successful enough in offing the one you want, try showing you are more friendly and generous and use that time/money investment to improve your image with the boys/staff. It might help your success in offing.

We all want you to be successful in your adventures because we all enjoy hearing about them since we are not there and would like to be. Go get'em. Good luck.

[christianpfc]

I included the neck-and-shoulder-massage only because I was never offered a massage in a gay bar all the time I have been coming to Thailand. The cold towel and the peanuts were free (included in the price of the drink).

The non-tipping (cute boy and waiter) was not due to lack of money, it was because I was not happy with the situation.

I admit I'm a cheapskate (but I can be generous, I am on good terms with the doormen at Classic Boys, and when they asked me under the right circumstances, I gave them 100 Baht for beer, and I have given money for food to boys at Saranrom Park, but not everytime they ask and not everyone - that would attract the wrong kind of attention), but I'm not on a tight budget.

I walked past that bar many times, so staff probably recognize me, but this is the first time I had a drink there.


In fact, sometimes when I decide to off a boy and then sometimes upon leaving see another boy I am even more interested in, I slip him a tip and smile. Now who do you think he will remember next time?
I occasionally do that (tip boys 100 Baht that just fail to meet my standards for an off by a bit), and two cases I remember hand a positive outcome. One was a host boy in Sunee (now living in Switzerland), whom I later found on gayromeo, and believe it or not, he went with me for free the next time we met.

[latintopxxx]

i dont even know where to start...talk about doing everything wrong and then poisoning the well .......

[Impulse]

This is the second time it happened this year.
I'm curious what happened the first time. Yes I think you were being a cheapskate. Maybe you should stick to regular gay bars where you don't have to pay anything, or go out less often to the comercial bars, but when you go spend a bit more money.

[christianpfc]

The second time that I see a boy and think "this one and no-one else". Usually I think "I might come back for this one" and note bar and number. The first time was in X-Boys Pattaya. I ogle him, and shock! another customers calls him over. Fortunately only for drinking, the customer leaves soon after. Then the boy smiles at me (again!) I smile back, and he sits down next to me and doesn't even ask for a drink! I quickly establish that he is willing to go with me and off him. Back in my hotel room good sex, however he is straight and doesn't show much activity, but that is compensated by a wonderful body! We have a chat in Thai (great success! We can exchange many sentences without difficulties to understand him) before he has to leave.

On my next visit to Pattaya, I had the misfortune to go to his bar to off him again when there was a contest, so I could not off him during the contest and after the contest, the Farang he lives with came to pick him up! (Part of my 3 months report.) With hindsight, just bad luck and slow uptake on my part.

Looking forward to off him again (or even better an afternoon arrangement).

[scottish-guy]

The farang he lives with seems to be very broadminded about what the boy gets up to.

Does anybody else know of situations like this where the boy lives with a farang but rents himself out?

I don't normally think of myself as narrow-minded (although I did get called a"prude" on here once) - but this seems a little out of the ordinary.

Christian, you certainly have a knack for falling into oddball situations LOL

[a447]

Does anybody else know of situations like this where the boy lives with a farang but rents himself out? :sign5:

[jinks]

Too much comparison given to the HET world.

What's wrong ?

A working boy gets married and still goes out to work ( ? to support his aging partner)

[scottish-guy]

LOL jinks - are you suggesting this is normal behaviour even in the HET world?

Mind you - I did always wonder why my mother dressed up in fishnets and stilettoes before going out every night.
Even more worrying - I've started doing the same!!

But seriously - the situation Christian has alluded to - it's a bit unusual, isn't it?

Isn't it??

[timmberty]

im missing something here .. again ... so the boy lives with a farang, and he is loyal to the farang ?
how often do we read on here about farang who have thai boyfriends then go out looking for others for 3's up
or going out looking for as much cock as they can find while their *boyfriend* is in bed or out with his mates ?
it seems we expect much higher standards from the thai's than we do of ourselves...
they are out to make as much as they can, so of course they will play around as much as any of us lot if they have the chance.

[scottish-guy]

OK Timmberty - point taken - but there's a difference isn't there:

When a farang in a relationship (to the extent of living with a boy) goes out and shags other boys "on the side" then that's one thing (and something I utterly condemn by the way).

In this case however, the boy seems to be living with the farang by day and being sent out/allowed out to whore himself for cash by night.

Now, irrespective of the rights and wrongs - all I said was that it was an "unusual"situation. Are you saying it's run-of-the-mill?

[timmberty]

i have given up trying to work out by which codes people live their lives in thailand ... we will have to wait for christians report as to whether this boy has a relationship with the farang or its just a live in arrangement..
i was at the beach last week there was a fairly cute guy walking by with dyed blond hair, ive seen him around sunee before.
he got called over and sat next to a weird looking farang and was bought some fruit and a coke, they seemed to be having a nice chat, then the owner of the chairs walked past and tried to get the boys attention without the farang hearing, which he did, the boy got up walked to the back of the same section and sat with another farang.
the first farang saw him and gave him daggers but said nothing .. so i assumed the boy was hoping for a bit of fun and earn some money before his *boyfriend* turned up.
fast forward a day the second farang was at the back of the section again, with a different thai boy, the cute dyed blond one nowhere to be seen. so far from being his boyfriend but maybe he pays well .. or they might all just be friends ??
its things like this that make me give up questioning how or why thais/farang live there sex lives.
i guess when you are 60/70 surrounded by good looking guys you give up wondering and just try to enjoy it.

[christianpfc]

The farang he lives with seems to be very broadminded about what the boy gets up to.

Does anybody else know of situations like this where the boy lives with a farang but rents himself out?

I don't normally think of myself as narrow-minded (although I did get called a"prude" on here once) - but this seems a little out of the ordinary.

Christian, you certainly have a knack for falling into oddball situations LOL

I chatted the farang up, he seemed to know better than I what was going on (the competition) and pointed out to him that I am just waiting for that boy, whereupon he replied "He lives at my place, he is coming with me tonight.". And indeed, they left with one or two other boys from the bar*, one of the boys driving the car. When I had met the boy the first time, he told me that he lives with his mother and his child in Jomtien, the farang confirmed that he sometimes stays there. I wonder what kind of arrangement they have and will try to find out more next time.

Martin911 mentioned in a post about NAB/DAVE/Idol that two of the coyote boys are staying at his place, so it can't be that uncommon.

*Sidenote: one of the boys had a tattoo "PALYBOY" in gothic (?) letters on his abdomen, so I had to look twice that it's not "PLAYBOY". And most of the boys can't read and write English (but that applies to most Whites who have a tattoo in Chinese as well, they don't understand what the tattoo says).

[scottish-guy]

Let me just see if I've got this straight, Christian.

This boy sometimes lives with his mother and child in Jomtien, and at other times with a farang, and in between these times (or perhaps even concurrently) he is prostituting himself and entering cock competitions in X Boys?

Have you considered organising a group session with him, the farang, his mother, the Burmese woman who turned out not to be a woman at all , and the 50yo ugly transvestite from Saran Rom? If you can find and throw in the dwarf who used to work in NAB I think you could be on to a winner, give up your day job and open a circus.


I don't know what poor Joe must be making of these latest developments


:party

[Brad the Impala]

There are more varieties of human relationships than there are stars in the heavens. Thank god, and interested to hear and know more.

[martin911]

I have the dwarfs number ( if C needs it ) :bounce:

[scottish-guy]

LOL, Martin911 - why does that not surprise me?

[timmberty]

*Sidenote: one of the boys had a tattoo "PALYBOY" in gothic (?) letters on his abdomen, so I had to look twice that it's not "PLAYBOY". And most of the boys can't read and write English (but that applies to most Whites who have a tattoo in Chinese as well, they don't understand what the tattoo says).
ive seen this tattoo on loads if not all the boys christian, you have also got it wrong .. the tattoo is meant to read 'PAYBOY' they all stared getting it done shortly after they heard about a farang called latintopxxx was coming to town.

there is no rhyme or reason to relationships in the sex dens of thailand, so its crazy to try and look for any, ive learnt to look, disbelive, look again, then belive...

i have a friend who lives in pattaya he used to have 4 boys living with him, if one spent the night in his bed he got 500 baht if not he got free board and free food .. everyone did ok out of the arrangement.

[jfarmer017]

Well, if the boy is indeed straight, then it would make sense that his relationship with the farang is commercial, in which case it really isn't that odd that he would stay with him while still working in a bar. In other words, I do not see how this arrangement is that out of the ordinary (for Thailand anyway).

[martin911]

But seriously guys -- it's Pattaya. , and there are all kinds of things going on that
Just are unthinkable in more civilised parts of the world --

I had one lovely arrangement with my ex bf that a guy we Both liked was allowed to stay in my place during the week while my bf was in bkk at Uni , and then at weekends we all went out together to restaurants , movies , clubs and ended up back in bed at home !!! - I had to pinch myself at times , I could hardly believe my luck - we had soo much fun for that period .

I think a lot if it is down to Internet sites like gr / grinder / FB etc - so apart from lots
of guys available in the bars / out in public etc there s even bigger numbers available in the palm of your hand

And with gays being pretty promiscuous anyway it just leads to lots and logs of different
"Arrangements "

I've had 2 bfs ever in Thailand , one was for 2.5 years , the other for just over a year - and I
Personally think that a lot of how both relationships lasted so long into this - both guys didn't play FB/ grinder etc and only one had a FB account - both guys were not the "social Internet " type that consist of the huge majority of guys today
So they didn't have the deluge of temptations staring at them out of a screen -



Isnt it also more of an "Asian " thing - arrangements etc than a western way of life ??? :dontknow:

[martin911]

LOL, Martin911 - why does that not surprise me?

I was only joking about the number lol - but he is a Facebook friend !!!
( I gonna wait for C to bite and ask me for the number tho ) :evil4:

[scottish-guy]

LOL, Martin911 - why does that not surprise me?

I was only joking about the number lol - but he is a Facebook friend !!!
( I gonna wait for C to bite and ask me for the number tho ) :evil4:

Can you get Christian a discount?

:evil4:

[christianpfc]

Let me just see if I've got this straight, Christian.

This boy sometimes lives with his mother and child in Jomtien, and at other times with a farang, and in between these times (or perhaps even concurrently) he is prostituting himself and entering cock competitions in X Boys?

Yes, that's how I understood it. (The farang is not retired, by the way, he is working.) The boy works at X-Boys and it wasn't a big cock show, it was "Mr Sixpack" (which does not mean that he doesn't participate in big cock shows as well).

[francois]

Does anybody else know of situations like this where the boy lives with a farang but rents himself out?

Easy, short answer is yes. I think it is more common than you may think.

[joe552]

I think I've finally got the separate stories straight - hugely entertaining.

So who should play Christian in the TV series "Christian does the Big Mango"? I think Matt Damon always had a Tuetonic look about him.

[SmoothLegs]

Not to be OUT off LINE,

BUT CCC, could have not just posted a reply to the 2 days previous post from "egel"

ever-had-boy-say-t28841.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/ever-had-boy-say-t28841.html)

started May 18 and your May 20 ???

Guess your boys that did NOT want you was worth a new fresh TOPIC, or other topics have to go to page 2-3-4 more quickly ???

Not an invitation for the :sign5: who never deleted me before

[scottish-guy]

Smooth Legs - stop trying to cause trouble.

I did NOT delete your ID "Smooth Legs"

[martin911]

I think C has enough troubles without another tosspot having a go at him for starting a new thread!!

anybodyelse share the same view at that idiot??

all of C threads are interesting and are a breath of. bloody fresh air blowing through this forum

[timmberty]

i agree martin, sadly most of christians . i assume you mean christian when you say c .. topics seems to get side tracked with silly liitle jokes. i belive his last two topics have about 10 one liners between 2 or 3 posters that have spoilt them ..
im now going to have a good think about who should be playing christian in a movie .. see what i mean ?

[christianpfc]

Yesterday around midnight, I was in Silom area and whenever I am there, I have at least one walk through Soi Twilight. The boy was sitting there again (alone, like when I first met him) and smiling at me as I walked past. Other bar staff tried to entice me to enter the bar. At least it seemed they did not brand me as "undesirable customer".

My negotiations with the two waiters and the boss very in a polite manner, and my emotions on the subject are rather disappointment and self-pity than anger.

[martin911]

did you not think of trying again???

at the least you may have gained further insight into what happened (or rather Why nothing happened ) the last time
!!!

its Thailand - things change rapidly without rhyme nor reason here C

give it a lash man you could be pleasantly suprised :bounce:

if no dice well just move your sights onto another target :happy7:

[latintopxxx]

oh...for fucks sake...stop feeding the pity troll.....would probably drown his new born just to soak up the pity....

[martin911]

you think C isc a pity troll???

you got him wrong there if you do methinks lp
:dontknow:
he describes his emotions EXACTLY. as they happen - without any form of embellishinment that the rest of us mite do from time to time

his sense of humour is 'different' ( and I cert do not mean that in a bad way ) and that can lead to perhaps a different perception than is the reality

but as him looking for pity I do not thinkthat is the case - -he is prob far too honest for this world!!!!!

[scottish-guy]

I agree with martin911

[joe552]

I think martin's summed Christian up quite well - no way is he a troll - just more honest than many who post on these boards. He at least acknowledges his failures and failings - never ceases to entertain tho.

[adman5000]

I also agree with Martin911 both that Christianpfc should consider trying again or at least initiate some small talk with his dream guy and that he is not a pity troll.

I find his adventure descriptions refreshing. It is great that he is willing to explore just about anything and get himself involved in situations most of us would never consider. There are a lot of interesting learning experiences in Thailand and he seems to be taking maximum advantage of experiencing them in his own way. It takes all kinds of people to make the world go'round.

[Brad the Impala]

The ineffable stud is sadly non-offable.

[timmberty]

i think latin is trying to push his own trollism onto christian.. some will fall for it.
martin i notice you have posted about the edit button, is this so you can check your posts to make sure you have left enough letters out to make them almost unreadable?.

[latintopxxx]

I'm still not convinced, C seems to make the same mistakes over and over again...like self mutilation..a cry for attention...oh woe is me...

[PeterUK]

C seems to make the same mistakes over and over again...

He's not the only one, is he? At least his tendencies aren't generally harmful to others.

[scottish-guy]

... C seems to make the same mistakes over and over again...like self mutilation..a cry for attention...oh woe is me...


Psychological projection was first conceptualized by Sigmund Freud as a defence mechanism in which a person unconsciously rejects his or her own unacceptable attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world instead. Thus, projection involves psychically expelling one's negative qualities onto others, and is a common psychological process. Theoretically, projection and the related projective identification reduces anxiety by allowing the unconscious expression of the unwanted unconscious impulses or desires through displacement (Wiki)

[timmberty]

time fo jinks to reappear with his big lock and chain the whole 3rd page has nothing to do with offing non-offerble boys ... and everything to do with personal attacks, altho somewhat more subtle than the last locked thread.
no need to thank me for helping you with the modding either, i belive your 2 weeks is up. so we need to find someone new :hello2:

[scottish-guy]

Not so, in my opinion.

The OP's motivation was questioned by one member, and other members have supported the OP - it's all directly relevant to the OP and none of the comments has been gratuitously offensive.

The three most irrelevant contributions are your own.

[timmberty]

youre banned

[martin911]

i think latin is trying to push his own trollism onto christian.. some will fall for it.
martin i notice you have posted about the edit button, is this so you can check your posts to make sure you have left enough letters out to make them almost unreadable?.

cough cough - is this the type of post that you seem to be reffering to in your post above dear ???? :evil4:

I hadnt realised my writing skills were so poor -(note to myself "must try harder " )

[scottish-guy]

youre banned

Not again!!

OMFG it's like Groundhog Day !!!

[Brad the Impala]

Why would there be any point in closing a thread in which people are still reading/posting? It dies a natural death when the interest goes.......and it slips gently down the page and onto page two.

[vnman]

The non-tipping (cute boy and waiter) was not due to lack of money, it was because I was not happy with the situation.


Something, I definitely agree with. You tip because you got good service and unless you're a sadomasochist, when the service makes you unhappy, don't tip. And yes, some might talk and call you cheap. On the other hand, some might say that you're not a pushover farang.

I know that there are a bunch of cheap charlies running around the boy bars in Thailand. Some are downright scandalous in the way they threat and pay the boys. I know I'm not one of them and I want it to be known: I give nothing for nothing!

So good for you Christian. Just let them talk about it. As long as you tip the boys who do their best well, you will be better of than being a pushover.

Interesting that the boy is from Vietnam. I'm not great at it but I'm sure i could have a casual conversation with him. But boys that are not offable isn't something new, is it? Often the boyfriends of the boss (not talking about Neal) or good customers of the establishment that have paid good money for the boy and don't want him to go with other customers. Don't ask me why they still keep working in such a place in those cases.

A couple of years ago a boy refused to go with me. i can tell you that made me feel pretty bad. I shouldn't have taken it personally, that's the lesson i learned from it. last week I tried to off a boy (CORNER BAR) and he didn't want to. i still don't know why but unlike the first time it happened, I'm blaming it on external factors.