Krazy Dragon Update

[DragonMaster]

Hello Everyone,

Just wanted to give you an update on the status of the Krazy Dragon.

As noted earlier, as of the 1st of May, the Krazy Dragon is no longer a go-go bar and there are no longer boys dancing on the tables. As most of you know, that hasn't happened for a long time anyway. The change from a go-go bar to a night club has certain cost savings benefits. Most of you will know what that means. The bar still looks the same for now and we are waiting for our contractor to finish the proposals and cost estimates for re-modeling the bar. Until then, we're in limbo between the old and the new. New furniture will be coming soon for those of you who like to
sit outside and enjoy the heat and humidity and new air conditioners will be installed during the remodeling for those who want to stay cool. Most of the old boys have gone and we are holding off recruiting a lot of new guys until we can get a timeline for the remodeling. We'll keep you posted as things change. In the meantime, come on by and have a drink and enjoy the new prices and happy hour from 8pm until 10pm every day.

Happy Hour Prices from 8pm to 10pm

Soft Drinks 80 baht
All Beer 80 baht
Rail Drinks 80 baht
Call Drinks 100 baht
(Any drinks not listed are at regular price)
Boy drinks +40 baht


Regular Prices (Low Season)

Soft Drinks 80 baht
All Beer 100 baht
Rail Drinks 100 baht
Call Drinks 120 baht
Glass of Wine 100 baht
Cocktails 200 baht
Breezers 100 baht
Boy drinks +40 baht

[scottish-guy]

Just for clarity - what are "Call Drinks" - despite 30+yrs of boozing I'm completely unfamilar with this term.

I have been places where I've said "Call that a drink?" but I don't imagine that's what's meant here! :evil4:

Thanks

PS I'm glad you've ditched the table dancing - I know some people liked it but I just found it a little bit intimidating.

[newalaan2]

Thanks for the update. Any owner who makes an effort to upgrade or certainly is prepared to invest in their bar can only be good for sunee. Any date in mind or hopes for changes to be complete?

I'll certainly give it a try next month on my early evening stroll round some of the sunee establishments before hitting the clubs and late night venues.

[Up2U]

DM,
Please expand on your vision of the new nightclub.

[DragonMaster]

Scotty,
Sorry for the confusion, I guess this is a term that is used in the U.S. and not universally. What it means is that if you specify you want a vodka tonic, or a whiskey coke, you have not specified a brand of liquor that you want. The term rail drinks comes from some bars incorporating a "rail" or shelf that the bartenders can easily reach and contains less expensive vodka/whiskey used for drinks that are not specifically called out by name. If you said for example you wanted a Jack coke, you have specified a brand of whiskey you want or "called" out a brand. That's a call drink and is the more expensive brands.

Newlaan,
This is Thailand so I can't give you a specific date yet. The contractor has been in the bar, taken all the measurements and discussed what our vision is for the bar. She stated that they would like to start remodeling sometime in June or July but that's as specific as it gets for now. I'm hoping to be able keep the bar open during most of the renovations and only close off the section they are working on although there will be some down time as they have to replace all of the wiring in the bar as well.

I'll keep everybody posted as I get more information, but after listening to many of you on the boards, the plan is to get rid of all the lasers and strobes, keep the music low, have special nights perhaps with live entertainment from time to time and keep it a fun place to come drink and relax with the boys. The stage will disappear since we don't do shows and will become the new bar. The existing bar will be removed and the center space will be replaced with one or two pool tables where customers and the boys can relax, chat and play pool. The club will change its name during the next license cycle which will occur later in the year to reflect the new environment and also keep from confusing the licensing officials when the renewal is due and we change the license to a new type.

[scottish-guy]

Ah, I get it - in the UK (or Scotland anyway) many bars have a "House" Whisky/Gin/Vodka/White Rum and these are generally cheaper than specifying a particular brand such as Famous Grouse/Gordon's/Smirnoff/Bacardi - same idea just different terminology

Thanks.

[timmberty]

i dont understand why i should pay more to buy a boy a drink than i should for my own ..
40 baht extra ... id rather give him 40 baht to sit next to me asking where im from, how long im staying, where i,mstaying etc etc .. and save myself 80 baht for his drink while he bores me silly.. can you explaine why his drink is more costly than mine?
its not even as if hes no longer on stage and being eye candy ...

[bucknaway]

I'm not much of a drinker but I think I will stop by the bar just to try it out. My inner voice says to cross it off my list of bars to visit but I am willing to ignore that inner voice and experience your new vision of adult social entertainment.

[scottish-guy]

Are you sure you want to risk it Bucky?

All those sex-crazed boys jumping of their stools or rushing out from their bars to grope you in the street yet again - it must get tedious.

:evil4:

[joe552]

Don't worry, SG, one gets used to it after a while. At least, I did! :hah:

[Impulse]

The existing bar will be removed and the center space will be replaced with one or two pool tables where customers and the boys can relax, chat and play pool.

Maybe a foosball table? Takes up less space than a pool table and the Thai bois might really like playing it. It's the plastic soccer players controlled by the player twisting the handles for each row. I don't even care for soccer (football), but we played for hours on end back in college days.

[bucknaway]

We will see SG. I've been killing myself in the gym and I'm already tired of guys propositioning me here in Delaware. Last week I paid my way into the bar and before I could take a step, a 20 something puerto ricin hottie talked me into taking him home. I didn't even get to get more than 5 feet into the bar before we were headed back to my house.

But the real test comes this holiday weekend when I go to the gay campground and walk around with my shirt off and soaking in the hot tub after the dance club closes. I'll either be nude or in my speedo, but it depends on if I am with 1 or more guys.

I'll let you know how it goes! Only because you are so interested :-)

Oh, I turned down the bars request that I wear a g string and sell shots. It's not my style:-)

[scottish-guy]

When you've got it Baby, FLAUNT IT, FLAUNT IT !!

[bucknaway]

I don't flaunt it. I just enjoy it :-)

[bucknaway]

I'm going to miss the old crazy dragon. I have had some memorable nights there and for a while it was the bar that I compared all the others too. I was hoping the new owner was going to put the bloom back on the rose. The crazy dragon will be missed.

[catawampuscat]

Have we gone off topic here or is it OK to post delusional silliness?

[arsenal]

If you wanted a beer bar why didn't you buy a beer bar? Any and all of them in Sunee are for sale regardless of what owners say publicly. 40 baht more for a boy drink. This place is where the average falang will walk barefoot through hot treacle to save a single Baht on a glass of dispicable Chang beer.

[colmx]

If you wanted a beer bar why didn't you buy a beer bar?
I was wondering that too DragonMaster
Not being critical... just curious...

-Was it that you wanted to keep running a gogo bar but the tea money or pressure from elsewhere was too much?
-Was it a lack of available gogo boys
-Or was it simply that you wanted to have a beer bar in the first place
-Or some other reason?

Also is it an Air conditioned Beer bar that you are running... or will it be a different concept?

[DragonMaster]

If you wanted a beer bar why didn't you buy a beer bar?

Who said I wanted a beer bar? You are making assumptions about things you know nothing about so let's leave it at that.

This will be my last comment on the topic.

1. There are not enough ex-pats living in Pattaya and not enough tourists to support the go-go bar format in Sunee. Many of you who are experts on every facet of the bar business in Thailand will claim that the go-go bars in Boyztown are full of boys and are making money and that bar owners should do this and bar owners should do that. Boyztown is not Sunee Plaza and even though some of the bars have boys and look busy, I don't know of any of them that are making a lot of money. Everyone is getting by and that alone should not be the basis for running a business.

2. If the music is too loud, posters complain. If the music is too low, posters complain. If people can't smoke in the bar, posters complain. If people can't have sleaze, posters complain. If the lighting is too bright, posters complain, if the lighting is too low, posters complain. When someone opens or re-models a bar and tries something new i.e. Double Shot, posters complain. Constructive criticism is certainly a good thing and discussions of what is desired and what's not is also fine. But constant speculation and complaining is becoming tedious and some of you wonder why bar owners don't listen to you. When we do, you are not happy. When we don't, you are not happy. It is a balancing act to try and please customers and next to impossible to please everyone. :nud:



-Was it that you wanted to keep running a gogo bar but the tea money or pressure from elsewhere was too much?
-Was it a lack of available gogo boys
-Or was it simply that you wanted to have a beer bar in the first place

Tried keeping the gogo format since November, but the lack of new boys wanting to work as go-go boys in addition to not wanting to come to Sunee for work is not working.
This has nothing to do with me wanting to have a beer bar in the first place, it is a matter of a changing market and a business model. If it is a beer bar, a gogo bar, a whorehouse, a gym or whatever if you are not making a desired amount of income from the business you either change it, sell it, or close it. It's really not that hard to figure out.

Factoid for all of you to think about.
GoGo bars are illegal in Thailand regardless of the expert opinions here, that is the fact.

In order to run one, there are certain expenses you must be willing to incur or you will be subject to constant problems until you comply. Frankly, I'm tired of paying six different departments every month for nothing in return other than the ability to avoid problems. In an earlier post, I outlined some of the expenses for running a bar. It was a snapshot and not set in stone as expenses change from month to month during the seasons. The more constant expenses are those pesky under the table ones that are expected monthly and on time.

The decision to make the upcoming changes was not made overnight and was not made by me alone. Since you are all dying to know details, the staff and I had many discussions about what works and what doesn't. We also had many discussions with customers who actually come to the bar and spend money here. We talked with customers about what they liked and what they didn't. The results were quite surprising. I/we have followed many of the comments on this and other discussion boards about what customers want and what they don't. The majority don't seem that interested in watching gogo boys parade around in their underwear, but want good looking boys that they can chat with and get to know. Getting boys to dance continuously for 5 or 6 hours isn't happening regardless of what some would like. The one leg shuffle is about as good as it gets in most cases. Prices are extremely important to ex-pats on limited incomes. Most of the ex-pats living here are tired of going to gogo bars and like to sit in a comfortable environment and chat. Most want reasonable prices and good drinks. Some of you want the impossible and believe you should have your drinks for 50 baht, give the boys physicals whenever you wish for free, tip the boys 500 baht for a short time, and best of all think that the bar owners should subsidize all of the boys drinks and off fees. Of course I'm exaggerating some here, but it is to make a point, don't take it literally. I already see complaints regarding our new pricing structure, particularly of an additional 40 baht for boy drinks. What you fail to see is that at the old price of 140 baht for all drinks, you were paying it anyway. It amounts to roughly $1.35 a drink to have a boy come sit with you and chat while your drinks have been reduced by the same $1.35. If that's too rich for you, then I shudder to think what you think about paying a 300 baht ($10.00) off fee. Even worse when you have to spend 500 - 1000 baht ($17 to $33) to enjoy the company of a Thai boy outside of the bar. Really???

For those of you who are supportive and constructive, thanks.

[scottish-guy]

I think Dragon Master makes some excellent points - and the bottom line is that the format wasn't working for him so he changed it as, is his privilege.

It is now up to those pesky customers as to whether they support the changes or not - personally I never really liked the table-dancing format so I am more likely to visit now, but I'm a tourist and I realise my limited custom doesn't keep any bar open.

The only thing I would add to the debate on the "boy drink" prices is that it seems to work in the fanny bars, so it's nothing new. - but from a business angle I've always found that if you can give your Customer the impression they're getting something for nothing then that's better than highlighting a surcharge. Not a criticism, just a personal observation.

Good luck with the new format.

Maybe post some pics of the new set-up once it's complete?

:hello2:

[timmberty]

dragon master i know you wont reply as you have said your last on the subject ... but all this tea money you are paying out ? it sounds like it is a bit of a surprise to you .... and you get nothing out of it, other than to run an illegal business .. how dare they !! bastards.

[arsenal]

DM: If you use this board to advertise your bar then we are entitled to ask you questions. Your angry reply was that of someone who has spent their entire working life in the public sector and now has to deal with the private one. It ain't going to be as easy as perhaps you thought it would be. What's more, getting tetchy with us here and others over on GB won't do you any favours.
Mark didn't do that and he rode off into the sunset counting his cash. Neal did and he went bonkers.

[bucknaway]

I think if I ever opened a business, I don't think I would communicate to potential customers in a way that comes across as hostile or angry. I understand why so many hire others to put their best foot forward when communicating with the public.

I don't know if I should be wishing you luck or ducking for cover.

[kuayai]

I do not mean to be anyway confrontational, just my own observations having witnessed Sunee Plaza develop from the mid 90s till today. Krazy Dragon, if my memory serves me right was the first gay venue in the soi to open. It was busy and pretty raunchy.. At showtimes you had to get in early to get a seat, they even bused in straight Korean or Taiwanese couples to watch boy shoot ping pong or boy unwind a few yards of coloured tinsel out of where the sun dont shine, luminous paint shows finishing off with a boy fu.. boy show. Toward the end of the evening a bin cup was passed around and after about 500 baht was collected those boys that had not been taken off would have a competition and the first one to have a happy ending would collect the bin. Whether thats your thing or not thats how it was and even allowing for police protection, money was certainly made.

Obviously things have moved on and although the above format is still possible the hassle with various police mafias would make it very expensive. I certainly wouldn't want to run a business where you didn't know whether you were going to be arrested at any time. The owners have also made it clear they don't want to be involved in sleaze. So what do you do with a large indoor space in Sunee Plaza. I am afraid that the owners idea of some sort of air conditioned gay club with pool tables and inflated drink prices is a sure fire loser. You are competing with gay clubs all around the world. Apart from sex the reason why most people come here is the climate, particularly during the high season when Europe is in the middle of winter. When I was a tourist nothing was more pleasant than sitting at an outside bar on a barmy night watching the boys go by. Even now in low season if you look around people like sitting outside. The Colonial for example which is a nice well equipped bar on Soi VC with air con available inside nearly all their customers will be seen sitting on the outside terrace even though the outlook is not that good. Going back to those early days in Sunees history soon after Crazy Dragon opened the Sunee Plaza bar opened otherwise known as Pays or green chair bar and has been going strong for nearly 20 years. It is still a favourite of mine and I can happily sit there watching the world go by whilst sipping my despicable large 90 baht Chang beer.


I have lost track of how many bars have opened and shut over the years in Sunee and certainly do not have a magic formula for success other than having a few ex pat good friends to give you a customer base, charging beer bar prices and employing handsome friendly staff. What I do know is the Boystown model of queens ripping off queens will never take off in Sunee Plaza. Why would anybody in their right mind sit in a bar paying 95bt for a beer when across the soi the same beer costs 65bt in a similar bar. Boystown can get away with it as its more reliant on the two week tourists who are less cash conscious than the ex pats who tend to frequent Sunee. Obviously I am generalizing and I am sure there are people who come to Sunee with money to burn but they are the exception and usually only on holiday.


As for the future of Crazy Dragon I suppose the two options I can think of that does not include go go are to open it up and make it just another beer bar or keep it enclosed with subdued lighting and perhaps make it into a subtle version of the upstairs of Happy boys. Drink prices could double but only the owners would know how the police would view it and of cause they are back in the sleaze industry. The options are a bit limited. I do not know the owners of Crazy Dragon but when they mock the idea of a 50 baht drink they should pop next door to Crazy Pub where I regularly sit with my despicable small 50 baht Chang. I can fully understand if you go to a bar where you can get your hands in a boys pants you should pay for the privilege but not for playing pool. There must be half a dozen or more bars with pool tables in Sunee where the only fee is 20 baht for the table.

[netrix]

I'm going to miss the old crazy dragon. I have had some memorable nights there and for a while it was the bar that I compared all the others too. I was hoping the new owner was going to put the bloom back on the rose. The crazy dragon will be missed.

We all have missed the old Krazy Dragon for some time now. I haven't been back in many months
since my last horrible experience, and the new changes sound even worse. Bye bye Krazy. RIP

[scottish-guy]

Kuyai: Welcome to our Forum and happy band of jolly souls!!

Netrix: "We have all missed the old Krazy Dragon.."? Quite a statement - do you mean ALL your friends, ALL of this Board, ALL of Sunee/Pattaya/Thailand/Asia will miss the old Krazy Dragon?

I must be the only one who won't miss the old format I guess - the table-dancing I mean - I don't recognise any of what Kuyai refers to, sounds more like Krazy Boys/Club or even Super Queen, but I'm probably wrong... :dontknow:

[Marsilius]

My own recollection ties in with kuayai's.

Wasn't it originally called Crazy Pub? As you went in, the stage area was right in the middle of the bar (where the Krazy Dragon bar is now) - but it was not elevated. It was at ground level and cordoned off by a little wall, about a foot high, all around it. The boys "performed" inside the walled-off area and also showed themselves off by moving along the top of the wall so customers got a slightly better view. Customers/spectators surrounded the stage area and watched from all sides. I also seem to recall that there were a few miscellaneous bits of old gym equipment which the more muscular boys would usually be using.

PS I too no longer visit KD since the new owner changed its modus operandi. The tabletop dancing at least offered a pleasant change from the standard go-go bar format.

[scottish-guy]

Exactly - the place was called either Crazy Pub or Crazy boys - that I remember. It wasn't called Krazy Dragon.

I remember 'coming' out of there in 2000 - wiping my arms down.

What I didn't realise - and apologies for any confusion - was that Crazy Pub/Boys and Krazy Dragon occupy the same space, is that what's being said?

:hello2:

[Marsilius]

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the case.

[Manforallseasons]

D.M. how on earth did you buy K.D. without knowing what you know now? Do you think it was sold because it was a cash cow. Don't spend any more money on changing it, lock tithe door, pay the rent and find another buyer.

[bucknaway]

I think it will be a shame for him to invest more money in a format that few want to patronize as described. But maybe he is going to make magic happen.

[bucknaway]

[attachment=0:zojrowkn]kdtombstone.jpg[/attachment:zojrowkn]

[arsenal]

I received a nice pm from the new owner and I wish him and his bar all the best. I do however have to agree with previous posters, if it was my bar I wouldn't know what to do to make it profitable.
Perhaps turn it into another X-Boys with a fuck show and high prices. But don't look to the notoriously stingy Sunnee scrimpers. Look to the straight tourists who fancy a trip into the dark heart of The Extreme City.
Flyers given out on Walking Street and Soi Buckao might work. A hadsome boy could even escort groups of ladies there and back.

[Manforallseasons]

Perhaps turn it into another X-Boys with a fuck show and high prices.(quote)arsenal

I don't know the last time you were in Sunee but the police have been successful in weeding out such activity in Sunee Go Go bars much to the detriment of most.

[kuayai]

I stand to be corrected and indeed Marsilius is correct and the bar was called Crazy Pub originally but it did occupy the same space as Krazy Dragon today, It was also arranged as Marsilius described. The German who opened it was known as Crazy Peter and was regarded by many as the founder of Sunee Plaza. He died in 2008. There is a thread on this forum regarding his funeral and by all accounts he was not viewed positively by some posters.

[arsenal]

Manforallseasons: No, what they have weeded out are those boys who had no place being there in the first place.

[bing]

XXX was the name a long time ago
i do believe

[Marsilius]

Possibly you are right... though my own memory is that the XXX element (in red neon?) was simply part of the larger Crazy Pub signage.

Any product or service should have a name that is easy to communicate, so, from the point of view of marketing a business effectively, XXX would have been a stupid choice (how do you say it? "Ex-ex-ex"? "Triple X"? "Three exes"?).

But, on the other hand, the history of Pattaya's gay bars is so full of instances of stupid, inexperienced and short-sighted bar owners, that I guess that one of them could well have chosen to adopt such a commercially daft name...

[Manforallseasons]

Manforallseasons: No, what they have weeded out are those boys who had no place being there in the first place.

Yes and no, there is no way you will see total nudity and certainly not a fuck show in the go go bars that remain in Sunee unless there are big changes amongst the B.I.B.

[latintopxxx]

is sunnee not part of Pattaya city??...so why are fuck shoes allowed on boystown and x and xland bars?? just wondering?? does it fall under a different police jurisdiction??

[Marsilius]

Don't we all assume that some bars make generous contributions to police charities in order to have that privilege?

[timmberty]

is sunnee not part of Pattaya city??...so why are fuck shoes allowed on boystown and x and xland bars?? just wondering?? does it fall under a different police jurisdiction??

does your cock have to be a foot long to allow you to participate in a fuck shoe ?? dang wheres the edit button !!

[latintopxxx]

...another complete pointless posting by timberty....absolutely negative input....

[timmberty]

who would have thought dear old donkey kong was so sensitive..
but thanks for the positive reply to my post !!!
it really depends on how much one has to pay the bib as to whether its worth putting on fuck shows or not.
for 3 or 4 months of the year you might make a profite, but the rest of the year more than likely not.
customers are harder to come by than boys at the moment, so the cash just isnt there to make it work.
just my view, make of it what you will positive or negative.

[latintopxxx]

so what I can deduce from ypur reply is that the xboys and xboys land duo are drawing in enough customers to pay all expenses including the bib. Explains a lot....many thanks.

[timmberty]

so what I can deduce from ypur reply is that the xboys and xboys land duo are drawing in enough customers to pay all expenses including the bib. Explains a lot....many thanks.
indeed . kinda supply and demand, enough people to go around, throw in another few go go's then the customer base spreads out so less customers in each bar, and everyone loses.
may i ask why you are so bothered about go go bars ... you aint gonna find anyone to treat like a tramp in one for 500 baht..

[latintopxxx]

I simply love gogo bars..and all the sex shows...from big cock..to the wankoff...to the fuck shows....even enjoy an overpriced beer while watching the meat parade on the stage in underwear.
And I do occasionally shell out the odd 2 to 3 thousand and rent a beautiful specimen off the stage....am not totally averse to trying something different...am simply turned on by the fact that I can buy (own...) someone for my own selfish pleasure ...even if its only for a short while.
I'll easily spend a week in bangkok and float betweem the malaysia..babs...and soi twilight/tawan.....eat+drink+sleep+sex.....and fly home totally tired but satisfied.

[witchhunt]

is sunnee not part of Pattaya city??...so why are fuck shoes allowed on boystown and x and xland bars?? just wondering?? does it fall under a different police jurisdiction??


It comes down to tea money. Owners have done the sums as how much they can[want] to pay and do so. As far as I am aware it is only the two bars in Soi 1 opposite each other ,that get away with it.
My impression were they work together rather than in opposition.

[Dani69]

Been here nearly a month already and have never seen anyone going into krazy dragon and i sit at crazy. Pub most nights , think it would be better to close until all th work finished then open a fresh , hope it takes off as a beer bar . :party
P.s. Sunee is very very quiet.

[Manforallseasons]

The owner never said it would be a beer bar, he said niteclub but still wasn't sure. He was consulting with his staff as to what to do. :dontknow:

[netrix]

This video was from 2009 when Krazy Dragon was the fun, active place I remember.

[youtube:2wrz4fy5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPtAedVknjw[/youtube:2wrz4fy5]

Over 200,000 views on YouTube! And somehow the new owner thinks it's better
to change everything and get rid of what made the club and it's name famous
in the first place! Pity.