Helicobacter Pylori - A Stomach Bacteria

[Neal]

Well I have not been feeling well for several months and just thought it was the dialysis and my condition. I have complained about it to a few people, constant toilet runs and having to use a regimine of Fagyl, Immodium and Cipro and when I stop it seems to come right back. They always thought that becuse I had colon cancer and most of it was removed that getting infections was the answer.

Spending an extra day over at the hospital for lengthy tests is not fun either but they were pretty confident that they could get to the bottom of the problem so I thought I would give it a try. I checked into the Bangkok-Pattaya Hospital a week ago and had exams done going in both ends with cameras and all that stuff to look around everywhere. Oh, I felt ok for a few days and then the ill feeling came right back.

I just thought they had no real answers when the doctor came round yesterday and told me to start this regimine of a few different antibiotics today.
She said that I had Helicubactor Pyluni bacteria in the stomach. Well hell if I know what that was and I even tried to Google it and got nowhere. Seems it is some sort of a bacteria that one can pick up by eating "unclean food" here in Asia. The bacteria which is according to the doctor "dangerous" if left untreated causes erosion of the stomach walls and ulcers.

I will go to Fascino and load up on a 2 week dosage of anti-biotics this week which unfortunately she says will probably make me even more sick before I get better.
So if you have been getting up in the mornings and feeling so ill and also some time during the day with stomach cramps and toilet runs and can't seem to get rid of it, well here is one for the books. Helicobacter Pylori - A bacteria caused from unclean foods. I will let you know in a few weeks how the treatment went.

PS It is not contagious and I forgot to ask if it is exclusively from food that you eat or maybe unclen water or both and I will let you know but in the intrim, she specifically said food.

[francois]

Are you certain this is not Helicobacter pylori? This is a common bacteria which is the common cause of gastric ulcers.

Good that they got to the bottom of it.

[Neal]

Thanks Francios. She wrote it a peice of paper and ya know doctors handwriting. Gllad I can finally look it up and see what the hell it is after I get back from Fascino.
I have corrected this name throughout.

[Neal]

Brisbane Guy please see my comment re crabs in the lobster thread.

[Krazy4thai]

As I do with many infection types the first time I hear about them I went looking for info on Helicobacter pylori. I'm always interested to find out the mode of transmission, especially for infections I hear may be more prevalent in developing/ 3rd world countries, often times Asia.
After my last trip to Thailand I brought home my own bacterial infection, giardia. It persisted for a month, although the first 2 weeks were the worst. It appears both Helicobacter pylori and gardia have been found similar in their transmission methods and hiding places. Tainted food/water are common. The fecal to oral route is also common to both dammit . As with many of these bacterial infections, they are carried by many people who are asymptomatic. According to a lot of the more legit (non-wikipedia) sites I checked out, it has been posited that it could possibly be a part of the body's natural bacterial flora, because of it's links to gastric problems and duodenal ulcers to mention a couple. Stomach cancer got a mention, but with only a 1 - 2% chance. Web MD quote " Having H. pylori infection doesn't necessarily mean you'll have ulcers or develop stomach cancer. In fact, most people infected with the bacteria never have symptoms or problems such as ulcers."

"When H. pylori does cause symptoms, they are usually either symptoms of gastritis or peptic ulcer disease. The most common symptom of peptic ulcer disease is gnawing or burning abdominal pain, usually in the area just beneath the ribs. This pain typically gets worse when your stomach is empty and improves when you eat food, drink milk, or take an antacid." I guess you'd know these symptoms already Neal.
After 12 trips to Thailand over the years, I had never been ill, during or immediately after a tip until last year's jaunt. My love of tight Asian butts and my inability to keep my mouth away from them obviously caught up with me :evil4: On my upcoming trip I may have to bend the boys over and douche.them 1st :sign5: Not feasible I know But what the heck. Whether you'll come down with something nasty in Thailand is a crap shoot anyway.
Hope they killed of your nasty little creatures Neal and that you recover 100% very soon

[Neal]

Wow Krazy4Thai all this now makes sense. OK no more beach food for me and no more cute butts! :crybaby: I never knew all this but yes now that I think back, those symptoms and feeling btter after eating or drinking the Pepto Bismol and milk or whatever is nearby all sounds correct but never could put 2 and 2 together!
Well I took the 3 antibiotics this am for the first time and have felt awful just as she predicted. I am hoping to feel better soon as I have a dinner with ChristianPFC tonight and I have been promising him for a long time. I am treating him to Bruno's. The cook is making fresh food today, Mac and Cheese and Meatloaf topped with a red sauce. A taste of USA. The Ambiance is making stuffed cabbage rolls for me and by Monday everything will be ready for eating. Dialysis tomorrow so resting today. The dogs are keeping me company. They love sleeping in my bed and shoving me off and the love the a/c especially around noon as it is too hot outside. Well I will give a report at the end and we shall see. Thanks for all the great info Krazy and I am sure this is great info for the members here also.

[lexus]

Neil, There is no need to stop enjoying the lovey thai bottoms that we all seem to enjoy :tongue1: we just have to take some extra cautions.

I got the same thing a few years back, and it was not fun. I hope your illness clears up faster then mine did.

I still enjoy the rimming but I use what is called a dental dam. Think of it as a condom for the butt. It still feels great, and it has the added benefit of keeping all that #^$%#^$ away from my tongue.

Hope you feel better soon.

[CoffeeBreak]

I was diagnosed with this bacteria last year. I am not a doctor so I will try not in any way suggest anything re treatment, especially as the OP may have special circumstances with any other meds he is taking and if I do make any suggestions, its better to take expert advice. I am under a specialist for the bacteria here in Thailand.
The bacteria is worldwide and about half the population in Thailand carry it but in most case it causes no adverse reaction.
There are plenty of web site about the bacteria just need to google it, and can see it explained in detail on Wikipedia.
My diagnosis arose after a colonoscopy and endoscopy plus blood and stool tests. As well as giving me severe diarrhea I developed many ulcers in my gut area which the doctor said were caused by the bacteria.
The treatment consist of various anti biotics from anything from 7 day to 2 weeks plus being ultra careful with diet.
Eventually I cleared the bacteria and the specialist tells me that at some future stage the ulcers will disappear and my guts will heal.
Unfortunately the bacteria returned within some months so I took yet another course of anti biotics. Late next month namely April I go to be tested to see if I still have the bacteria.
There are different types of anti biotic prescribed for the bacteria and I am told it is not easy to get rid of it, if at all. Sometimes a sufferer will need 5 or more treatments.
The way to determine if the bacteria is gone is by what is called a "breath test": blowing into a bag and having the lab determine the result/score.

The cause of the bacteria is filthy food.
My specialist informs me the latest research has found the following foods to be the cause of many cases due to the poor hygiene standards in Thailand:
1. Ice.
2. fried rice with crab.
3. chicken and rice.
4. salad.
Seems the reason 1-4 are particularly risky is not so much the items in themselves but the food providers have inadequate training about food standards. For example they leave food outside and it gets the bacteria.
My specialist said amongst other things salad purchased from a supermarket should be thoroughly washed in clean water and not tap water before being consumed.

My own research on the net suggests that a high protein diet is good for sufferers as well as eating things like garlic and liquorice but again as I am not medically qualified a sufferer ought to be guided by a specialist and not me.

I would caution anyone to be extremely careful of food in Thailand due to the fact that many Thais have poor hygiene standards and seem to have never heard of refrigeration.

[joe552]

Certainly not a thread to be read over breakfast, but a good reminder of the dangers of poorly prepared food. Hope you get well soon.

[Marsilius]

The point about food left outside is very persuasive. I was once in Bangkok where I saw a very large block of ice left out on the street by delivery men. Before the restaurant staff emerged to take it inside, presumably to be cut up, a dog came along and peed all over the block of ice. No more ice in drinks or me since then!

[Yraen]

Recommend you get on the Net and do a Google search. There are lots of references to HP, but none that list the symptoms you have described. One item of high interest is that about 40% of the world's population have HP and only in a small %age of cases does it lead to ulcers and/or cancer of the stomach lining.

I like to know what is alleged to be the ailment from which I suffer. Then I Google it - because I just don't trust doctors. If they are being honest with you, most of them will tell you that they are only guessing at what might be the cause of your problems and they will "shot-gun" the problems with various medications and hope they get lucky.

Thai people and Thai water have a high incidence of the parasites Cryptosporidium (caused by contaminated material, like earth, water, uncooked or cross-contaminated food in contact with the feces of an infected person or animal) and Giardia (which starts in the small intestine). I learned this the hard way in Bangkok and carried Giardia for weeks through Europe, with all the symptoms you have described. It took a stool test after I got home to discover the real problem. In Australia they are designated "notifiable infections".

The treatment is a single dose of 4 x 125mg of Tinidazole (aka Simplotan in Thailand). Cost, about B50. I carry a packet with me whenever I travel.

Rather than launch into a range of medications for HP, I would be inclined to get a second opinion based on the question, "Is it possible that I could have .....".

Best wishes.

[timmberty]

hows that for some great advice ? ignor your doctor and get on google .. it could save your life !!!!

[Neal]

Yraen's post is dangerously close to "advice" which is a violation of our rules and guidelines and if I decide that is not advice the problem is that he lists the medication and dosage and really is a violation. Please be careful here as there are people here like myself who have many (14) other meds they take for various problems and the med you suggest over this forum may interact and can cause serious complications and maybe even worse. The doctor I have at Bangkok Pattaya follows me ever other day and is a specialist. In this case she personally recomends me to other specialists that she would trust for her family and professionally feels safe with. I have a variety of Doctors at BP and shold anyone need references that they can stand by and trust, please contact me cause as you know I have had a heart attack and a stroke here and the doctors i use have been wonderful.

[Impulse]

hows that for some great advice ? ignor your doctor and get on google

Actually it's great advice. Don't ignore the doc, but realise that they make mistakes and might not really know what is going on. Don't you think one should be informed? By going on the internet you can educate yourself for symtoms that might not require you to visit the doc but you can treat yourself with over the counter meds. After seeing my doc, there are times he will tell me to pick up an over the counter med with no need of a prescription.

Gay men have a higher incidence of cancer than the straight population so we need to be more vigilant. Three things cause cancer...viruses,bacteria and parasites. It's often very hard to tell which one is causing problems. For instance Giardia is a parasite which can be caught from rimming. So if that is something you have been doing and you have symptoms it would help to tell the doc that you might have caught that from sex. It will save time and unessasary test. That's why it's good to have a gay friendly doc if you can...so you can discuss these things.

In the case of parasites, they usually wait at least 10 days before testing for it. And in Thailand there are many. I guess that Gardia is the one to worry about the most form sex. Bacteria mostly from bad food etc. Tuberculosis is a bacterium very common in SE asia. Not much you can do to avoid it, but the symptoms are fairly apparent, a chest x-ray or blood test will tell. The vaccine for tb is not very effective and you will always test positive for tb once you have the vaccine.

Viruses are obviously dangerous. Hiv which most are aware of, and HPV virus which is very hard to avoid as you can get it from skin contact. My gay doc in New York gave me the vaccine recently for HPV. He and all his Gay doc friends have gotten it also. I always take vtamin B when having sex with someone new as it is thought to helps slough off the virus. Sorry getting off topic here....glad they caught what was causing your problems Neal....hope you recover well.

[CoffeeBreak]

Some of the crap spouted above(see in particular from Yraen and Rocket, ) takes my breath away and makes me question whether I want to post here anymore as it seems a lost cause .The test to determine if a person suffers from Helicobacter Pylori is scientifically proven and tested and to take an example, it is just as accurate as determining if someone is suffering say from a high temperature.
So with respect to the OP who is also the boss and moderator you really ought to be more severe with people who make false medical claims or give "advice" in the face of clear medical/scientific evidence to the contrary.

[Neal]

Hate to say it Coffee Break but with regard to Yrean you are correct but I do believe Rocket is on sfe ground but I thinl we have covered that this is bad advice and should not have been posted and well first time warning so people can see it is not very good.

Its years since I've used it but I think the " saying" below is apt here. I had to look it up again!


"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"

Meaning

A small amount of knowledge can mislead people into thinking that they are more expert than they really are.

[Oliver]

I'd be interested to learn (following Neal's original post) whether other members suffered unusual stomach problems in Pattaya during January and February. It has taken me two months to recover from something I seemed to pick up when I was there.
My curiosity was aroused by the fact that P's friend, who came to stay with us, though at a different hotel, was also taken ill at the same time. It was the first time in sixty-plus visits that I suffered such problems.

[colmx]

I'd be interested to learn (following Neal's original post) whether other members suffered unusual stomach problems in Pattaya during January and February.
I missed 3 nights out on my January trip with a bout of projectile vommitting and diarrohea, was even too sick to celebrate my birthday, never had something like it before...

Had another dose of it again earlier this month and missed a whole week in work... and have not been right since... I'm on proton pump inhibitors (Nexium) at the moment in the hope that i will be betetr for my next thai trip in 12 days....

Might be time to visit the doctor again and get some HP treatment!

[anonone]

I'd be interested to learn (following Neal's original post) whether other members suffered unusual stomach problems in Pattaya during January and February. It has taken me two months to recover from something I seemed to pick up when I was there.
My curiosity was aroused by the fact that P's friend, who came to stay with us, though at a different hotel, was also taken ill at the same time. It was the first time in sixty-plus visits that I suffered such problems.

I was in Isaan for New Years, then a week in Pattaya afterward (Jan).

I did not experience any illness.

3 nights in Bangkok, mid-January, had to stay near the WC, could not go out for any socializing. Lower GI tract disturbance.

[Neal]

I have been sititng here and thinking all about this and a date about that I was ill. I hate to say this but I can only relate back to the soup issue and having had these problems for months and finally decided to do internal testing. I don't know where I picked this dirty food bacteria from bu it is a thought. Could have also been the beach. I just don't know and never will.

[colmx]

I reckon we all shared the same boy!! :scratch: :scratch:

But its funny that so many people got sick in Mid January

[Impulse]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
And very little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I say go to your doctor, just have some knowledge about why you are there. I work out a lot and I don't go running to my doctor if I have a pain from a pulled muscle. I know how to treat that with ice and heat. Google is called progress.

If you have a bad cold, it might be from a virus, so don't insist that your doc treat you with antibiotics, since they only work for bacterial infections. Too many people insist on antibiotics when not needed and they are running out of new drugs to treat these resistant diseases.

I have glaocoma (high eye pressure) which I would never had known about without my optomatrist giving me the test for it. I had my gall bladder removed a couple years ago,very painful symtoms, and followed the proper health care procedures for it. My regret being going to the emergency room and getting a CT scan. Ct scans give off high doses of radiation. I knew this but just wanted a pain killer, I was already diagnosed with a stone.. So don't avoid a CT scan if they need to know what is wrong, too many is not a good thing however.

Look at the mal-practice that goes on. Be educated and question your doctor. They are human after all.

[christianpfc]

Three things cause cancer...viruses,bacteria and parasites.

This list is incomplete*. There are a lot of chemicals that cause cancer, and smoking is often the reason for cancer. Radiation as well can cause cancer. I am not sure if alcohol abuse can cause cancer. And there are cases where nobody knows what caused the cancer.

(*Polite for: You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.)

[francois]

Three things cause cancer...viruses,bacteria and parasites.

. I am not sure if alcohol abuse can cause cancer.

Oh, for sure, liver cancer and throat cancer.

[anonone]

Three things cause cancer...viruses,bacteria and parasites.

This list is incomplete*. There are a lot of chemicals that cause cancer, and smoking is often the reason for cancer. Radiation as well can cause cancer. I am not sure if alcohol abuse can cause cancer. And there are cases where nobody knows what caused the cancer.

(*Polite for: You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.)

Anonone thinks ChristianPFC's post is funny.

[a447]

And maybe tongue in cheek.

[francois]

And maybe tongue in cheek.

Tongue and cheek are also cancers related to alcohol.

[francois]

Neal there is another interesting bit of info regarding H Pylori; two Australians doctors, Warren and Marshall, discovered it in 1982 and were later awarded a Nobel Prize in Medicine in 2005. It was a true break through in treating gastric ulcers by use of antibiotics.

[Neal]

Thank you yes I am on 3 aniti biotics 2 times a day. They are maing me feel awful and a horrible taste in my mouth all the time but the doctor said those are some of the side effects. It is a 2 week course on this med.