Meeting BF family for first time - Help!

[RatThai]

I am visiting my BF's family in their home for the first time this May. Seeking advice on etiquette and do's and don'ts. Do I take gifts, money, pay for meals, honour mother and father etc. Should I expect him to stay with me in hotel? Any advice greatly received. :alc:

[cdnmatt]

I'm assuming you're just going to some hole-in-the-mud piss ant village filled with drunk rice farmers? If so, wouldn't worry too much about anything. Expect to pay for everything, and other than that, you're welcome to do as you please. Nobody is going to say anything, and etiquette isn't as big of a deal as you'd naturally think.

Think of it as going camping with some friends, except you're paying for everyone. Relax with that type of "camping attitude", be yourself, don't worry about anything, and all will be well.

Matt said it perfectly. Don't worry about learning any new forms of social niceties. Assuming you are a polite guy to begin with, and you smile a lot, all will go well. Even if you make a faux pas, they will just attribute it to behaviour that is acceptable among farang. You won't have to bring any little dinner invitation cards to distribute. Just bring enough cash/ATM/creditcard to pay for everything - meals, parties, outings, shopping excursions to the nearest Tesco - and after you've paid for everything, don't be surprised if family has need of a special amount for any one of a hundred reasons. To be nice about it, put your parting cash gift in an envelope.

Also donтАЩt be surprised if it is made known to you that Mom would agree to accept a gift of gold jewelry, maybe one bahtтАЩs worth.

They will simply view you as a source of income, and as such, of course you and BF will be sharing the same bed in the hotel, otherwise, they will think, why is farang spending all this money on us if our son is not sleeping with him?

[Neal]

Well our posters seem a bit cynical but I am sorry but they are correct, that's just the way it goes here in Thailand. No matter how much you give while you are there with the family, there is always room to leave more. Usually like in the case of my b/f they live in the woods in a shack and you won't want to stay there, there isn't enough room anyway so book that hotel before you go. Take only the amount of money you want to leave with them or spend or better yet, just mail it and stay where you aready are! :3some:

[catawampuscat]

Over the years, I have meet several BF families. I can think of 4 different ones and each time a little different but basically
as Matt says. Twice we went to a Tesco and another time to the large village market. Each time, lots of friends, neighbors
and others come to eat and drink beer and see the farang..
On one occassion a neighbor lady propositioned me and was quite suggestive but all in fun and lots of laughter.

My advise would be to limit the visit to one day/night. Should the relationship continue with the BF, there will be more
meetings and if you take a 2 bedroom condo/house you will see more of the family that you can imagine. EVen a smaller
apartment, if you are a good sport.

It is an experience and you will see the "real" Thailand. Don't expect any conversation and in all probability you will be much
older than the BF's father and mother. Fortunately, age is respected as is being a farang..

[cdnmatt]

Just so people don't trash me for being a dick towards Issan peasants, let me clarify a bit. Whenever I have to explain life in a village to people back home, I always use the camping analogy. At least up where I was raised, camping is/was huge, so it's the best way I can describe life in an Issan village. Think of being born and raised in a campground. I don't mean that in a condescending way, but that's just the reality of it.

Think of the times you were camping. In the morning you wake up, wander out a few feet into the bush for your morning piss, if you stink or smell of smoke it's not that big of a deal, having decent refrigeration is considered a luxury, your meals are cooked over an open fire, etc. When you're bored, you just head out and see what everyone else is up to, stopping in on the way to whoever's house. Same as when you're camping... you just go for a walk around the other campsites and say hi to the other campers.

It's that type of lifestyle, but instead of just a weekend trip, they do it from when they're born. So again, wouldn't worry about trying to be polite or respectful or anything of that nature. From my experience, it will 100% fall on deaf ears, and just leave you feeling let down due to the effort you put in. Instead, just relax, hang out, and enjoy the party. Treat it as a place you can relax, scratch your balls in public, and do whatever you want.

Then only other thing is, expect to pay for everything. And make sure YOU draw the lines as to what's financially feasible and what isn't, because nobody out there is going to do it for you. Nobody is going to say, "geez, we already spent 16,000 baht of his money, shouldn't we maybe hold back a bit?". That's just not going to happen, and it's up to you to draw the lines. For a bunch of poverty stricken peasants, you'd be surprised at how much money they can blow through if given the opportunity.

I remember the first time i met my bf's familly i was a bit worried, if i'd be apcepted....my bf kept saying dont worry they will like you....and he was right ....next time will be my 4th time i've visited them and its my favourite part of my trips....so dont worry ..just be yourself..from my exprerience they make big fuss over you....you pay for some things....but they know i'm on a budjet ..so dont ask me all the time....every body's different ...somtimes when were alltogether with his friends we share the cost of the beer, wisky, soda from the local store and when we all go to the local kareoke....cause i told him from the start i was'nt going to pay for ever body else ..everytime i go back its like a big reunion.....hope you enjoy it

[RatThai]

Guys tank you for the very insightful and helpful information. I am looking forward to my trip to Isaan. I will try and keep a tight rein on my ATM card and wallet. But hey you can't take it with you and Isaan lads are so intoxicating.

[francois]

I'm assuming you're just going to some hole-in-the-mud piss ant village filled with drunk rice farmers? .

Matt, can't imagine why anyone would trash you for being a dick toward Issan peasants.
Not much different than a redneck trailer park in Canada or USA where the good old boys sit around chewing tobacco, spitting, farting, swilling whiskey and scratching their balls and laughing at fag jokes.

[cdnmatt]

I'm assuming you're just going to some hole-in-the-mud piss ant village filled with drunk rice farmers? .

Matt, can't imagine why anyone would trash you for being a dick toward Issan peasants.

Well, if it's of any credit, that's nothing compared to what they call us, many times to our faces because they think we don't understand what they're saying.



Not much different than a redneck trailer park in Canada or USA where the good old boys sit around chewing tobacco, spitting, farting, swilling whiskey and scratching their balls and laughing at fag jokes.

Exactly. No problem calling them closed minded, ignorant lowlifes either. I'm a strong believer in hating everyone equally. :-)

In fairness to the plight of so many rural Thai folk, some of the families are truly deserving of help. In my comments above, I wasnтАЩt being cynical, just realistic. In some cases, the fact is that we are expected to pay for everything simply because they have nothing. The family of one bf near Nong Khai was living on a thatched roof platform with no walls. They were actually Lao citizens, staying illegally in Thailand for more than a decade. They couldnтАЩt get Thai ID cards. So, in the spirit of тАЬyou canтАЩt take it with youтАЭ, some of my money went towards constructing a modest dwelling for them, and giving money to bf so that he could buy the identity of a deceased Thai, thus legalizing himself in LOS.

Your experience with the family can be very rewarding and fun but you may be disappointed if you expect to be immediately taken into the family as their new son-in-law. I spent three days with a bf and his family in Sisaket and throughout the visit I was constantly being referred to as тАЬthe farangтАЭ. No one seemed to know my name. Not even sure if the bf remembered it. lol

[Dodger]

cdnmatt wrote:

I'm assuming you're just going to some hole-in-the-mud piss ant village filled with drunk rice farmers?

Just so people don't trash me for being a dick towards Issan peasants, let me clarify a bit.


Matt, I find these two sentences of yours interesting.

First you project your perception of Isaan people as being drunk rice farmers who live in hole-in-the-mud piss ant villages and then immediately feel a need to clarify you statements. I think you made your point very clear in your opening comments so you can put your eraser back in your pocket.

I lived in an Isaan farming village for a good portion of my life and the dwellings, modest as they were for people with little means, were cleverly perched above the mud line, and with the exception of a few of the moonshine cuddling old timers who were long retired from working the farm fields, the majority of Isaan farmers are too tired to get drunk and simply resign to enjoying meals together as a family and go to sleep shortly after the sun falls. The people of Isaan, who you project as drunk peasants would be offended by your remarks. Yes, living in a village in Isaan is exactly like camping out like you described - but you don't earn merit badges in Isaan the same way you did back when you were in Boy Scouts.

RatThai,

You have received some good advice regarding money. Treat your first trip to Isaan much like a visit to a gambling casino. Only take what you want to contribute for the pleasure of the experience and nothing more.

The people of Isaan are wonderful in all regards. You will be made to feel welcome everywhere you go and they will appreciate the fact that you are interested in them, so you can't ask too many questions. They will also appreciate your interest in visiting the local wat (temple) as this is a key component of the culture and making a small donation to the monks is something you should offer without being asked. The Thais have an uncanny ability to see inside a person so don't make the mistake of trying to impress them, because ultimatley they will judge you by what they see inside you - not by your projection of "self".

Enjoy the experience.


.

Very well said Dodger....my last stay near my bf's village in Non bua lampooh was my 4th time i've been there and i was there for 4 weeks.....my exprerience has been very positive....if i didnt enjoy it i wouldent keep going back so many times...I love Isaan and its people, at my birthday in the village was fantastic....they put a big party on for me ....much drinks/food/ and my bf's friends put a sound system up in the garden.....about 30 people came and some even gave me presents....i cant think anywhere else in the world where i would get treated so nice.....i've many friends there and cant wait to see them all again in june..there's good and bad people every where in the world...so not all the same.....if your experience of Isaan is good ..dont let anyone try to tell you different

[cdnmatt]

Matt, I find these two sentences of yours interesting.

First you project your perception of Isaan people as being drunk rice farmers who live in hole-in-the-mud piss ant villages and then immediately feel a need to clarify you statements.

Because that's what many of them are like. Don't shoot the messenger. They are generally happy though. For example, goto any village and offer people double their salary in exchange for moving to the city. Probably at least 95% will say no. The village is where they were born, it's their world & reality, where they're comfortable, and there's no way you're going to convince them to leave it.

As for being harsh, well... like my mom always said, treat people how you want to be treated. If they're going to constantly disrespect me, try to leech off me, cut me down right to my face because they think I don't understand, and view me as nothing more than an alien source of income, then you can't exactly expect me to hold them in high regard.

[Dodger]

Matt, you have your own personal reasons for having ill feelings towards the Isaan people and it's not my place or intent to debate this with you. If you were treated as badly as you describe and the people said bad things about you then I guess that pretty much sums it up.

I

cut me down right to my face because they think I don't understand.

Matt, if its'not to personal a question would you mind enlarging on the above a bit - and I ask that not to embarrass you or to try and find out what the locals thought of you (or all farang for that matter but merely to get hear your first hand experience of what maybe does go on behind that lovely Thai smile as ( I accept just some) of them talk to you ( about you). And I guess what I'm asking is was it all fairly general personal insult stuff like "oh doesnt he have a big nose / is fat / whatever, or was it something much darker ( and maybe lies even) all designed to either humiliate and hurt you or worse ruin a guys repuation in the village to everyone else all without you even knowing they were doing it ?

Again I'm not asking for any personal intimate detail ( unless you wish to share of course) but merely trying to get an insight into what was going in their heads whilst talking to you -all whilst still taking your money of course I assume!)

[cdnmatt]

Ummm... remember those "Occupy Wall Street Protests", and the 99% thing? Think like that. A bunch of hippies banging their bongo drums, pissed off at the rich people in society for being rich. Difference being, the OWS protests had a legitimate claim, because loads of illegal activity was taking place to fuck ordinary citizens out of their money, although no prosecutions or arrests. That's beside the point though.

That's the best I can describe as to how they view us though. We're not strong, capable, don't know what real work is, don't understand reality, are fakes who put on illusions for selfish reasons, we've never really worked hard to achieve what we have, and so on. That's basically the gist of it, and because of that, they don't have any issues taking whatever they can from us. Same as some hippie OWS protester taking $1 million from Ben Bernarke, isn't going to feel any shame or guilt about it. Same as that.

I don't know, but best way I can describe it.

For an example, a while ago a crew was here digging up the road and fixing the water pipes. They were here working for a couple weeks. At the end, I bought them all a bunch of beer. My neighbor (store owner) was a little perplexed as to why I'm buying them so much beer. I explained it's because I used to landscape, and I've been at the ass end of a shovel 16 hours a day before too, so I know how good it feels when a stranger buys some beers for the crew, and I definitely know how good a cold beer tastes after a long day of work like that. This was a bit dumbfounding, and within 24 hours everyone in the neighborhood knew I used to do labor work. It was like it was odd a white guy would do that type of work, or something.

Ah right, yeah thanks, I get it, although I gotta say that same attitude is fairly wide spread too as if you go the shipyard or any factory here ( or any rough tough job) you'll get the same " those rich, snobby buggers, they've never worked a day in their lives, one day doing (this) work ( whatever they usually do) would sort them out, I'd like to see them try it, they wouldn't last an hour doing our work, born with a silver spoon in their mouths every bloody one of them and they're all as thick as pig shit too you know! Hell it it hadn't of been for the family they were born into ( or the Country perhaps in Thai's cases) they wouldn't be where they are now - at least anything we've got we've worked for it, not like those lazy good for nothing bastards" - so yeah I could walk into a hundred places here and hear variations of exactly that same story I guess - and I have to say that probably half of it's true and the other half is just pure jealousy / simple mindedness, actually to be honest even my own staff come out with crap like that sometimes ( behind my back of course - stuff like " oh aye, it's all right for him, sitting there in his fancy office while WE do all the work, swanning off for big fancy three hour lunches while we all only get an hour, the lazy bastard: - when in reality of course they don't see the 18 hour days nor realise the 3 hour lunch is with your bank manager for a meeting you've had to work for a week to produce figures on for him just to keep them all in job while you're actually lifting close to minimum wage for yourself some weeks AND making sure they all get paid first !

But I guess if I was standing out in a rice field all day getting my nuts burnt off for two bags of fuck all at the end of a week I too would be somewhat pissed off when some fat sweaty farang ( not you personally I mean generally ) who's "never done a real day's work in his life" rolled into town in his fancy truck and proceeded to fuck every man, woman and boy within a ten mile radius of their shack and if I could I guess I would extract just as much as I could from him too just to at least feel that I'd evened out the playing field a bit and that my superior smartness had got one over on the dumb as pig shit farang - who he's so stupid even when you blatantly rip the ass out of him, call him names, drink all his beer and get your son or daughter to demand money from him for everything and anything you want the dumb fuck STILL COMES BACK for more of the same in 6 months time and all just for a blow job and some pretend love - man are those farang dumb !

So, yeah, if it's something along those lines, I see where you're coming from perfectly now, thanks. :-)

[joe552]

I have to say that my only trip to Isaan with a boy some years ago was the best trip to Thailand I've ever had. Yes, I was expected to pay whenever the family went out to eat. I paid his uncle to take us around in his pickup truck (to Preah Vihar, the Laos border overlooking the Mekon river and other places whose names escape me). A magical 2 weeks or so which is still the best holiday I've ever had. And as a by the way, the boy concerned and I were no longer sleeping together (not my decision but we'd become close enough for him to say he didn't want to sleep with me). I even bought his father a motorcycle. I maybe spent more money than I intended but at that time I had money to spend (how times have changed). I don't regret a satang I spent and hope him or his dad is still running around on the motocy.

It can't all be counted in money terms.

??? Joe if "I" don't sleep with you will you buy me a motorcycle too ???? WOW ! See my above perhaps as I'm sure the Thai family concerned thought it fitted just about perfectly in terms of faring with too much money to burn ?? ( no offence)

[joe552]

You missed my post about not paying a 600Bt off fee for you? Forget the motocy, it just ain't happening.

The point of my post (being a little serious for the OPs benefit) was that the experience you have with a family in Isaan can't always be put in money terms. I would agree with others who have more experience (I've only been once) that you should have a limit on what you can afford, but if you can be seen to be generous without being flashy, then you'll be rewarded with some amazing experiences. And isn't that the point of going to places like Isaan?

Well I'll bow to your own judgement there of course but ya gotta admit, rolling into town, fucking the guys son ( or not even ! ) and buying the dad a motorbike on your first trip to their could by some considered "quite flashy" perhaps ? And i know what you're saying in that to you it was worth every penny as you had a great time but you can also see where the Thai view of "rich dumb farang"maybe comes from ( again no offence, I'm not talking about you personally there :-)........actually buying the Dad a motorbike........na, maybe I am just a little bit !! lol At least PLEASE tell me it was some auld 100 quid scraper and not some ┬г4000 new shiny speed machine ! :-)

[Neal]

I have met the b/f's family twice in Cambodia. They don't ask me for money, don't drink and are very very polite. They have no water or electric and no means for income. I had a well dug for water so they now do not have to buy water, made a chicken and duck coupe with swimming pool for the ducks and now they have chicken or duck as well as eggs. They are thrilled and I wonder if remembering many of the posts that I read over the couple of yers if you have become very bitter.
I have had a pig roast where the neighbors all join in and bring foods and we have an enjoyable time. When I leave I am asked for nothing although s mama is old I do try to pay some of the family and neighbors a few hundred baht to help her in cleaning the pen and taking care of her property. Obviously with animals now her chores and work exceed what she is capable of doing.

[joe552]

NIrish, it was a 2nd hand motocy that cost about тВм500 (if I remember correctly). The point I was making, and I think Dodger was making (who is much more experienced here) is that if you approach this situation like "these rural Thais are going to milk me for every satang they can get", the chances are that you WILL be milked. But if you go with a generous spirit (and a strict limit on your funds) you will have a great experience. Maybe you've had a bad experience in Isaan, but I think Matt's rather depressing view reflects his own experience of living there, rather than the average trip of the farang boyfriend for 3 weeks.

Actually Joe I haven't had any bad experiences at all in issan, quite the opposite actually, I quite enjoyed it and nothing negative happened at all and I fully intend to head back that direction when I get the time and chance ( but will try to avoid purchasing any motorbikes if I can at all avoid it ! :-) and yes as you say I'm sure my or your 3 week flying visit is a million miles away from Matts experience(s) as I'm guessing the novelty of Issan wears off real fast unless you start as you mean to go on and are happy living like that perhaps.

[joe552]

If I met a boy who connected with me the way that Isaan boy did, I'd do it all again (if I had the money, which I don't, just in case the boys are reading this and upping their expectations for when I go in June).

To the OP, enjoy your time there, be clear about spending limits, and report back on how it went.

[cdnmatt]

Maybe you've had a bad experience in Isaan, but I think Matt's rather depressing view reflects his own experience of living there, rather than the average trip of the farang boyfriend for 3 weeks.

Yeah, what Joe said. I think it's one thing to head up to Issan for a couple week vacation, throw some money around, buy a motorbike, build a chicken coup, throw up an outhouse, etc. Then it's a different thing to move to Issan, and view the family as your in-laws who are going to become an intricate part of your life, and you'll be spending loads of time with.

Honestly though, I was trying to leave the family out of my thoughts. I was just thinking about the times we were sitting around, having some beers, eating some food, and people from all over would come and go (again, camping lifestyle). Keep your ears open, and it's pretty obvious quite a few of them are making snide remarks against farangs.

On the flip side, I have met several great guys out at the villages, who didn't seem to pre-judge me at all, which I really appreciated. I always tried to hang around them during my times in the village. From my experience though, the majority pre-judge you, and although they might smile to your face, don't hold you in very high regard. So if you just head out in vacation mode for a couple weeks, and throw a bunch of money around, of course your going to enjoy yourself. Obviously though you can't be in vacation spending mode all year long though, so if you try it as a long-term scenario, and try to actually get to know and befriend them, it's fairly different.

BTW... if you think I'm being harsh, go ask a wealthy Thai in say Bangkok or Chiang Mai what they think of Issan rice farmers. Almost guaranteed they'll be more critical than me.

[Beachlover]

I think it's amazing how guys describe the way they were treated and then say what wonderful people they visited.

Do they ever stop to internalise it and inject some perspective before making a judgement?

One attribute common to most cultures around world, whether wealthy or poor, is pride in being a good host and treating guests well. It's especially important in Asia. A good host is generous and makes guests feel as comfortable and welcome as possible. It's common etiquette not to allow guests to pay for anything. The guest brings a gift but this shouldn't be over the top. And no decent host goes and asks their guests to give them stuff! That's the complete opposite of how guests should be treated!

These values may be very old but they demonstrate people possess a certain degree of decency, integrity, pride and self respect.

So when people are treated the way commonly described here, what does that say about the kind of people they're visiting?

I reckon it says that they are people with little integrity, no self respect and no shame whatsoever. They have no sense of fair exchange either. But you won't see that if you can't look past the warm smiles, humble manners, endearing simple mindedness and the way they look up to you with adoring respect.

[Diec]

I hate to agree with Beachbore, but he is right. I have visited many homes and have never been asked for money, pay for the food that is cooked that night, or any of the nonsense people on this board have experienced. If the parents and relatives are this greedy and money hungry I can only imagine how they raise their children. These parents sound like low class pigs.

Diec, Congratulations! Judging by the posts on this board, you must be the only farang who has visited boys' homes without money changing hands. Perhaps these were all well-to-do families that you visited? Your experiences do seem quite unique.

[Beachlover]

When some guy supports his boyfriend's parents, what I see is a set of parents who are too lazy or inept to support themselves and a boyfriend who is too lazy or inept to support his own parents and has so little shame he has no problem with burdening some other guy with them.


These parents sound like low class pigs.
I know you're taking the piss but even that's understating it...


Diec, Congratulations! Judging by the posts on this board, you must be the only farang who has visited boys' homes without money changing hands. Perhaps these were all well-to-do families that you visited? Your experiences do seem quite unique.
I've had the complete opposite experience... and I'm a Western-born Asian so technically not a farang but close enough.

I've done the "meet the parents" thing with three Thai boyfriends, two of which involved visiting the parents' home and none involved money changing hands. And most times I've tried to pay the bill at a restaurant, it has been a struggle to be allowed to get my wallet out.

With the first boyfriend, I took him, his parents and a sibling out to dinner. Fairly well off middle-class Bangkok family (though with poorer roots in Isaan). Sure I paid for dinner but I only got away with it by slipping my card to the waiter on the way to the restroom. The favour was returned in spades on several occasions after that. I'm in a relationship with a different guy now but still close friends with this guy and still get invited out to dinner by his family when I'm in Bangkok.

The second boyfriend came from a shit-poor family in the countryside. Not Isaan but very very rural and of limited means. My then boyfriend and I would always share costs on everything but on this trip (departing Bangkok to visit his family) he didn't let me pay for a thing. All I did was bring a couple of thoughtful gifts and they were shy to even accept these. The only money that changed hands during that visit was between him and his parents who have gotten a monthly allowance from him since he started university. After staying at their home, we brought them to Bangkok for a couple of nights. He paid for their hotel room next to ours and we took it in turns to pay for meals.

The third of these is my current partner. Fairly wealthy family in Bangkok. The first time I met his family we had dinner in Bangkok and both him and his Dad wouldn't let me pay. In fact, I've yet to buy his parents anything more than a drink at a bar in Thailand. It wasn't until they came over to Singapore that I was able to shout them a meal.

[Dodger]

Viewing impoverished people as being in a low social class is correct, at least the way society develops its rankings, but to believe, or attempt to lead others to believe, that people in this impoverished class have no class is where some people make a mistake. I have seen this type of stereotyping on both sides of the fence for years; Thais who assume that all farang are self-centered (self-focused), egotistical and lacking in real substance, are of course wrong. There is a percentage of farang who have no class and accurately belong in this category - but not all. On the other hand, farang who assume that all Isaan people are low-classed individuals who only want your money are of course wrong as well. There is a percentage of Isaan people who accurately belong in this category - but not all.

The "social class" of any group of people is easy to see - but the "level of class" that a person (or group of people have) requires a little more insight.

I can understand a little Thai when spoken and in 10 years of interactions with the people of Isaan I can truly say that never once heard an offensive comment directed towards me, nor did I ever encounter a situation where I was made to feel unwelcomed by them. I was an integral part of an Isaan family who never once asked me for money. The offerings I made to them came from my heart with no conditions or expectations and they showed their appreciation for this by respecting me for the person I am...as simple as that.

The people of Isaan live totally interdependent lifestyles and commonly share amoungst themselves as a basic means of sustaining life. If one person in a village has a grove of fruit-bearing mango trees - those mangos are given to his neighbors in exchange for whatever they have to offer from their gardens. Every day you can see this friendly exchange of basic needs which in the end results in noone starving and everyone receiving good merit through the giving process. They are a simple people with little means - but always find ways to demonstate the high levels of class they have as individuals if you look close enough.

[cdnmatt]

I was an integral part of an Isaan family who never once asked me for money.

So both you and Diec managed to grab bar boys from Pattaya, head up to their home in a rural Issan village, and not once were asked for money. Wow, you guys are pretty lucky. What are the rest of us doing wrong?

My guess is, either you guys are extremely lucky, or you had your wallet out before they had to ask. I'm betting on the latter.

[joe552]

Matt you obviously haven't followed Dodger's story otherwise you wouldn't have made such a cheap shot. He has a longer experience of Thailand than you do, so don't be so quick to write off what he says. To be honest, your own posts have gone from really enthusiastic about Thailand over the last couple of years to sounding really unhappy and sad. I hope that's not the reality.

It seems the thing people on here mention on here most about Isaan is the money spent...instead of the beautifull places you can see there and great friendships you can make there if you open your heart and mind
as for money i spent less in 4 weeks in Isaan than i spent in one week in Pattaya and that includes having a bf in Isaan and knowing his family and friends really well

[Neal]

I want to clarify my post. Yes I spent some money and had my wallet out before they could as and why not? I am living in Pattaya, comfortable in a house and have plenty to eat. I pick up young men (that is for Scottie) and do many of the things I wish to. I love B very much and he and his sister live here in Pattaya and care for me. B takes me to the hospital and stays with me and his sister cleans although they are paid for thier services. Why not? It makes a clear cut arrangement and they can send some home. The katoy brother comes visits pattaya now and again to make some money and helps out but does not get anything which is as it should be. Mama has no papa, he ran off with a younger woman a few years back and left her in the woods in a shack. She has no means of support and no water or electric.
I drilled a well, set up a chicken and duck coupe and bought her chickens and ducks and now she has food. I had a pig roast there and have had a great time with the family. Maybe I put out $3,000 tops in 5 months. Not the end of the world to help a her. Its all about how you d it and KARMA.

[cdnmatt]

Matt you obviously haven't followed Dodger's story

Oh no, I've followed it. No worries there. :)


To be honest, your own posts have gone from really enthusiastic about Thailand over the last couple of years to sounding really unhappy and sad. I hope that's not the reality.

Not at all. I still absolutely love Thailand for various different reasons. It's just poor Issan rice farmers is no longer one of them. If I didn't enjoy living here, I'd leave. I love the open-ended nature of people, non-judgemental attitude, lack of paranoia / stranger danger in society, the fact you actually get to know all your neighbors, the fresh groceries from the markets vs. a 60,000sqft Superstore, being openly gay is much less stigmatized here, the smiles, the non-confrontational nature of Thais, showing respect is still something to be valued, the fact that being an egotistical, cocky, stupid prick is very much frowned upon here whereas in the West it's idolized (eg. Jersey Shore show), and loads of other things.

[Dodger]

cdnMatt wrote:

What are the rest of us doing wrong?

Matt, who are you referring to when you say ..."the rest of us", because not one single person participating in this discussion has claimed to have been asked for money by the people of Isaan during their visits? You, at least in this thread, are the only one who has apparently been asked for money and at the same time had the people saying bad things about you. My question is why did you have the people in Isaan saying all these bad things about you when "the rest of us" have never experienced this?

The majority of farang I know who have visited Isaan have offered some sort of financial assistance during their visit and didn't come back complaining about it. They often complain about the discomfort involved in the journey but rarely show too much concern about the assistance they provided. This isn't confusing to me at all because anyone with the least amount of compassion for his fellow man would do the same and come back feeling good about it in this process.

If you were pulled up to Isaan by a person with bad intentions and ended up being surrounded by money-grabbing family members, which is the impression I get listening to your stories, then I guess you picked the wrong person to be with. If that was the case then I suggest you just knock the dust off your pants and continue moving forward and hope for better luck up the trail, but sitting back and casting stones at all of the people of Isaan because of your misfortune will render even fewer positive results.

[Neal]

When some guy supports his boyfriend's parents, what I see is a set of parents who are too lazy or inept to support themselves and a boyfriend who is too lazy or inept to support his own parents and has so little shame he has no problem with burdening some other guy with them.

Beachie I know we have problems the way you refer to Pattaya and working boys etc but this one is out there too far. For example this is my current situation. I pay B 1,500 baht a week. He sends 1/2 of it home to his mother who pays for everything. She has no water, no electric no other means of support and yes she has no husband or other kids that support her. Can she pay $1,300 to have a water well dug? No. Is she lazy at 65 years old? No. Come on! Don't throw the kids out with the bath water!

When some guy supports his boyfriend's parents, what I see is a .......... a boyfriend who is too lazy or inept to support his own parents and has so little shame he has no problem with burdening some other guy with that.


Some of course would argue that by going with the farang in the first place supporting his parents in whatever way he can and perhaps a much more effective and profitable way than standing in a rice field all day is EXACTLY what the boy IS doing when selling his ass.

Thanks Neil and every one for them positive story's..non of us are perfect but if we try to understand all people of the world for their different cultures..the world would be a better place....i 've studied Buddism for long time ..years before i went to Thai
and i think it helps my relationship with my bf and his family....when i'm there we go regular to the local temple for a blessing
and last week my bf went for blessing for our future together....which in my eyes is a beautifull thing to do

[Oliver]

Good for you, bluechris1. We have much to learn from other cultures. Those of us who are snobs and look down on the economically poor forget that, in some ways, they are richer than us.

[joe552]

Matt, I'm happy to read your positive comments. It's just that lately you've been coming across as pretty negative. Looking forward to reading more good things from you in the future.

As NIrish points out, a working boy in Pattaya IS supporting his parents and anyone who thinks it's easy to sell your ass to various types of farang should try it himself. In fact, if you're young, good looking, fit, and of Asian ancestry, why not come to LOS and get yourself up on the stage at Nice Boys or BBB? We'd all love to see you in your briefs shuffling in time with the music.

[kjun12]

the people said bad things about you then I guess that pretty much sums it up.
God bless you Dodger, God bless you. I'd like to say more about Matt but I'll leave it as is.

[cdnmatt]

My question is why did you have the people in Isaan saying all these bad things about you when "the rest of us" have never experienced this?

To be honest, I'd say most of you were probably too entranced with the overall experience, the warm smiles, and open-ended nature of Thais to realize what was going on around you.


This isn't confusing to me at all because anyone with the least amount of compassion for his fellow man would do the same and come back feeling good about it in this process.

Ummm, two things. First, a two week vacation to Issan is different than living there, being in the villages every week, sometimes the family is living with you, sometimes not, etc.

And second, I guess it depends how you view the situation. I could quite easily argue that just blindly throwing money at them is actually hurting them, and helping keep them in poverty. Things like Neal's chicken coup are obviously a good investment, but just handing them 20,000 baht for no apparent reason probably isn't. It might make you feel good, when in reality, you're not actually helping them at all.

Again, depends how you view it. Instead of just buying people fish, I'd rather buy them a rod + tackle box, and allow them to fish themselves. However, after buying so many soup stalls, storefronts, and funding other business ventures of theirs, only to have them dismantled and sold as parts within 2 - 3 weeks, I got tired of it.

And... that's all in a past life now, so I'll just leave it at that. :-)

[kjun12]

Oh Matt, just keep digging. You're over your head now but maybe you'll hit oil. Doubtful since you're in the cesspool now.

[Beachlover]

To be honest, I'd say most of you were probably too entranced with the overall experience, the warm smiles, and open-ended nature of Thais to realize what was going on around you.
Yep... I agree and I reckon that's what happens. People find themselves in this exotic, exciting place and do away with their entire reference and values framework. All of a sudden, everything goes. Anything can happen and they won't bat an eyelid.

I think you kept part of your head screwed on with stuff like the suffering dog and messy kitchen getting to you. But other stuff just seemed to not bother you (or you just let it slide and didn't bother to do anything about it).

I think having an open mind and being able to process new and different situations is important but completely doing away with your own reference and values framework is not good.


depends how you view it. Instead of just buying people fish, I'd rather buy them a rod + tackle box, and allow them to fish themselves. However, after buying so many soup stalls, storefronts, and funding other business ventures of theirs, only to have them dismantled and sold as parts within 2 - 3 weeks, I got tired of it.
Yep... But as you probably found out, the distinction you overlooked is that you can only help people who want to help themselves.

The people you tried to help clearly had no will to improve their own lives. You may look at them being in that shit state and want to help them, but the reality is, they're perfectly satisfied being in that shit state. So any attempt to help them is just an opportunity for them to shamelessly accept some charity, which only relieves some of the symptoms (not the cause) of that shit state which they have no desire to get themselves out of.

And not my intention to be insensitive in this instance but Dodger also illustrates your point perfectly with the ending to one of his previous trip reports... It's the one where Thep passes away. He ends by pondering what will happen to the assistance he gave Thep's family, predicting that although they now have a new house/tractor (whatever it was) thanks to him, in a year or two they will be back in the exact same state they were before he came along. Impoverished and none the better off.



When some guy supports his boyfriend's parents, what I see is a set of parents who are too lazy or inept to support themselves and a boyfriend who is too lazy or inept to support his own parents and has so little shame he has no problem with burdening some other guy with them.
Beachie I know we have problems the way you refer to Pattaya and working boys etc but this one is out there too far. For example this is my current situation. I pay B 1,500 baht a week. He sends 1/2 of it home to his mother who pays for everything. She has no water, no electric no other means of support and yes she has no husband or other kids that support her. Can she pay $1,300 to have a water well dug? No. Is she lazy at 65 years old? No. Come on! Don't throw the kids out with the bath water!
The situation you describe is not the same as the situation I described. The guy you are talking about is working for the money being paid to him, which he is then sending back to his Mum. Other than the well and the chickens, you are not supporting his Mum. He is (by working for you).


So both you and Diec managed to grab bar boys from Pattaya, head up to their home in a rural Issan village, and not once were asked for money.
It's probably because they handed it over before being asked... and of course, it was shamelessly accepted.

[cdnmatt]

I think you kept part of your head screwed on with stuff like the suffering dog and messy kitchen getting to you. But other stuff just seemed to not bother you (or you just let it slide and didn't bother to do anything about it).

Yeah, I made a few fatal errors. Well, hooking up with Kim in the first place wasn't a good idea. I remember at first I was thinking, "this is great. simple minded rice farmer, lots of love, low maintenance, easy to keep happy. perfect!". heh, didn't quite work like that. Thais have fairly strict socio-economic boundaries in society they seldomly cross, and there's a reason for that, which should be respected. We don't really have that in the West though, which I think causes quite a few problems / confusions.

First fatal error I made was going into it as a 50/50 relationship, and showing Kim the same level of respect I'd show any other boyfriend. So if Kim wanted some friends to spend a few nights at the house for example, it wasn't for me to say no, because it was "OUR" house. Then other thing was for the first good while in the beginning I took more of a backseat observer / learner role. Alot of times I would keep my mouth shut because I was still learning the ropes, and thought I might be misunderstanding the situation, etc.

By the time I decided I had a decent grasp of things and became more assertive, it was already too late, and things were too far gone. Although once I started becoming more of a dickhead, things did actually begin running more smoothly. House always stayed relatively clean, papa quit sending the kids over every 10 days looking for free money, and everything just all around ran smoother. Alot of things were too entrenched for me to do anything about though. For example, I couldn't just go downstairs and be a total prick, and kick everyone out without me landing in a world of hurt, so that type of thing I just had to accept.


Yep... But as you probably found out, the distinction you overlooked is that you can only help people who want to help themselves.

Yep, exactly. I honestly wanted to help, but failed miserably. And I'm not going to build someone a house just because they happen to be poor, and their son has a cute ass. Was more than happy to help give them a leg-up in life though, but they had absolutely no desire to help themselves, so that was that. Now instead of me throwing away money on them every month, a couple extra Filipinos have jobs, and can put good meals on the table every night for their kids. Look at that, the free market works!

[Diec]

Question? How did these poor parents afford to raise their children before they were 18 and left to Pattaya to prostitute themselves to support Mamma and Pappa? Is it only up to the son to do this or is the daughter required to do this too? What if the son went to University to become a doctor for many years? Would the parents die before he graduated because no money was sent home, or would they still be able to survive? What happens to the poor parents when farlang gives up on boyfriend and no longer gives money to them? Is there pressure from the family to to son to hurry and get another farlang because family is running out of food?

Throw money at these parents, but when you tire of their son, what will they do? If they live for their son to get a farang to support them, then I don't think I want to be part of that family.

Question? How did these poor parents afford to raise their children before they were 18 and left to Pattaya to prostitute themselves to support Mamma and Pappa? It was a struggle, apparently much more of a struggle than you can imagine.

Is it only up to the son to do this or is the daughter required to do this too? Sometimes both.

What if the son went to University to become a doctor for many years? Would the parents die before he graduated because no money was sent home, or would they still be able to survive? Poor Thai families cannot afford to send their children to universities. Most are in school only till age 15, if that.

What happens to the poor parents when farang gives up on boyfriend and no longer gives money to them? Is there pressure from the family for the son to hurry and get another farang because family is running out of food? Very possibly.

Throw money at these parents, but when you tire of their son, what will they do? If they live for their son to get a farang to support them, then I don't think I want to be part of that family. No worries. I donтАЩt think they would welcome you either.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Come on, man, youтАЩve been around long enough to observe life. WeтАЩre talking about families who are locked in a cycle of lack of education, ignorance, poverty.

If you donтАЩt think they should ever be helped, thatтАЩs certainly up to you, but it is not appropriate to question the wisdom or motives of those who do wish to make the lives of the poor a little more bearable, if only for the short term.

[Beachlover]

hooking up with Kim in the first place wasn't a good idea.
Yeah, I remember that. It's when you first joined this forum asking for advice. You copped a lot of flak for choosing to hook up with Kim and I remember keeping an open mind and thinking, how nice for you, go for it! Now, I'm a few years wiser and my opinion would be completely different.

In a way, the members who were against you doing it were right. But they had the wrong reasoning and rationale for being against it.


I was thinking, "this is great. simple minded rice farmer, lots of love, low maintenance, easy to keep happy. perfect!".
When I started having serious relationships, I had a rule that I don't date someone unless they're sorted. Back then it was just an unconscious rule at the back of my mind. Now I'm aware of it and I reckon it's saved me a lot of headaches and led me to much happier and fulfilling relationships.

By sorted, I mean guys who are self sufficient (or on their way to being self sufficient) and have pretty clear direction and purpose in life. Not randomly floating around without any awareness, self-drive or planning for the future. Guys who are sorted tend to be grounded, more confident and organised. Guys who haven't got their shit together... not only can they become a financial burden but they come with a lot of emotional baggage and issues too. I see it lead to a lot of one-sided, dependent or simply frustrating relationships.

So yeah, your simple minded rice farmer thing is fine... but there's a fantastic difference between a simple minded rice farmer who's sorted and has their shit together and one who doesn't. I think you've got to be asking yourself if that's the kind of life you want to live... with all the stress, constant frustration, certainty and effort instead of the stability and happiness that comes with someone compatible and sorted.


Thais have fairly strict socio-economic boundaries in society they seldomly cross, and there's a reason for that, which should be respected. We don't really have that in the West though, which I think causes quite a few problems / confusions.
Nah... I reckon they can be crossed, though I agree that in reality they seldom cross it.

I see some Thai immigrants who are successful beyond their wildest dreams but still carry with them this strange degree of self consciousness and inferiority complex. I'm talking about guys from shit poor backgrounds in Thailand who now own like five houses and multiple businesses in Sydney. I think, f**k, that's amazing. How inspiring. Lots of respect and admiration for them. But for them, they still have this self conscious inferiority thing. No matter how well things go they still have this thing hanging over them. It's like they're ashamed of their background and who they are or something.

The reason for this comes down to the culture and values ingrained in them... In Thailand and most of Asia, people judge you based on your background. It's all about the socio-economic status you were born with. You might be a classic rags to riches story but you'll never achieve the status of someone born into a rich family. How wrong is that? Where as in much of the West and certainly Australia, people judge you (if at all) more for the socio-economic status you've achieved yourself.

My ex-boyfrend said that after he left his village and as he went through university and his early career in Bangkok, he NEVER told anyone where he came from and what his parents did. And nobody ever knew because he was so convincing and charming. Everyone thought he was born and bred in Bangkok, rather then some tiny village in rural Thailand. Even in Australia now, his closest friends don't know of his poor background. He only opened up to me.

When I figured out why he did this, I explained the difference in values between the two cultures to him. I said that he might hide his past in Thailand but here, people think differently and he should actually be proud of where he's come from and how far he's managed to get himself. I think he's amazing and have a lot of admiration for him and guys like him.

Even so, it's taken him a long time to realise that people here will actually respect him rather than look down on him for how poor a background he struggled from... so deeply ingrained is this value in Thai culture. Sad isn't it?

[Dodger]

What does a narcissist and a sperm have in common?

Both have about a one in 3 million chance of becoming a human being.

[timmberty]

life is a choice of this or that ... should i turn left .. should i turn right.. should i go live with a go go boy and try to change him .. his family .. his village !!! or should i do what the others do .. shag him then move on ??
some choose the impossible .. then spend years moaning that its not working, others enjoy their holiday flings and move along ..
the choice is always there, so the moral of the story is .. get on with it and stop moaning !

[latintopxxx]

Honestly...I have no idea why anybody puts up with all this nonsense...visiting peasants in villages without running water or starbucks....dont you all know that bthere is no need to buy the cow...milk is available by the liter.....the moment a "boy"gets annoying (sloppy).....I replace him!!
Get real...this is Thailand.

[Oliver]

"This is Thailand"... you mean a country with an endless supply of poor people who have placed on this earth for the sole purpose of satisfying the sexual needs of wealthy foreigners who can't find partners in their own country?
What a relief that they have neither rights nor feelings are are so willing and available. And cheap, not to mention cute.
Just when you thought western colonialism, with its exploitation of natural resources and cheap labour, had become unfashionable, the sexual imperialists arrive up in Thailand expecting the natives to be grateful for their one thousand baht notes. Or less, in some cases.

Oliver, I hope you don't suffer an attack of vertigo up there looking down on the rest of us.

I'd hate it if you fell off your cloud and injured yourself, my dear.

[Oliver]

Is it not possible to enjoy what Thailand 's guys have to offer while treating them respect and even kindness? And recognising that they have feelings?
I have to say that from what I have seen over the last sixteen years, the majority of falangs manage this quite easily.

Of course that's possible and as most will know, I am not a trumpet-blower for LatintopXXX.

But what he has said on this occasion is perfectly valid - he does not want a relationship with or to play Lady Bountiful to the boys. If they bore him he will move on in the same way that they will happily go off with the next farang who propositions them.

My point is - we are all in the same boat, and the only variables are how much we pay and what behaviour we need to exhibit to make us comfortable with ourselves.

:dontknow:

Well said Oliver ...you could allmost say having less respect for Thai people is racist.....thinking you can treat them with less respect than people from your own country......remember your in their country and you have to respect thier culture and rules
and ways of doing things....i've seen friends who moan about thai people taking you for your money and at the same time think its ok to give loads of money to their partners in thier own country....be they bf.....gf's.....wives and thier relationships can go wrong just as much in your own country as it can in Thailand..we all live on the same planet....as John Lennon's words to "IMAGINE".....if there were no flags

Latintopxxx can't be racist - he treats the boys equally (badly) no matter where they come from - even ones from his own country as I'm sure he'll be happy to confirm.

:occasion9:

Welll....What goes around comes around

[timmberty]

Well said Oliver ...you could allmost say having less respect for Thai people is racist.....thinking you can treat them with less respect than people from your own country......remember your in their country and you have to respect thier culture and rules
and ways of doing things....i've seen friends who moan about thai people taking you or your money and at the same time think its ok to give loads of money to their partners in thier own country....be they bf.....gf's.....wives and thier relationships can go wrong just as much in your own country as it can in Thailand..we all live on the same planet....as John Lennon's words to "IMAGINE".....if there were no flags
i think you may have been sold a bootleg copy there chris ..
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/john_ ... agine.html (http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/john_lennon/imagine.html)

Sory i meant "Imagine theres no countries" and " we all live as one"

[timmberty]

Sory i meant "Imagine theres no countries" and " we all live as one"
no need to say sorry .. altho, i do belive you're a dreamer .. but your'e not the only one .... :nud:

Yes ha ha

[a447]

Doesn't the video of that song show the very wealthy John Lennon (how many Rolls Royces did he own? I forget) sitting at a grand piano in a huge mansion singing

"Imagine no possessions....?"

Yes it was a video....but he did'nt live like that all his life....to a lot of us he was a voice of common sence..like Tony Benn and The Dalai Lama

[timmberty]

Doesn't the video of that song show the very wealthy John Lennon (how many Rolls Royces did he own? I forget) sitting at a grand piano in a huge mansion singing

"Imagine no possessions....?"

even more strange is the b.side of that song .. its called ... working class hero ..http://www.lyrics007.com/John%20Lennon% ... yrics.html (http://www.lyrics007.com/John%20Lennon%20Lyrics/Working%20Class%20Hero%20Lyrics.html)
he forgot he was middle class, somewhere along the line .. and the richer he became the more working class he seemed to think he was ...

I think part of you will allways belong to your roots