POLL: News of Pedophiles Caught in Thailand

[Neal]

Should news of arrests on pedophiles be displayed on SGF? You may change your vote and all votes are confidential

In the USA persons caught with underage boys as in this case have thier picture in the papers, on the iternet sex offenders websites and sometimes even on trees and lamp posts. A person who induldges in this type of behavior runs the risk of being caught and everyone knowing. I don't read the newspapers or listen to Pattaya People TV cause there is just too much bad news. Sometimes I pick up a news article here or there and reprint it for those people who are the same as me and bring some news articles to the forum to discuss. Fair to say I think 95% or more of the members of the forum also deplore such behavior and many want to know especially those in thier home countries who visit Thailand on a regular basis but do not read Pattaya One.
This is a forum and open for discussion on things going on in Thailand.

Funny kind of poll - where the person sponsoring the "poll" is allowed to include a fairly lengthy public statement clearly seeking to influence the result.

:occasion9:

[joe552]

will the result of the poll be binding or is it a pointless exercise?

[ainamor]

will the result of the poll be binding or is it a pointless exercise?


As Neal has said "This is a forum and open for discussion on things going on in Thailand."

The fact that it goes on should not be swept under the carpet.

[Neal]

While I myself do not feel it should not be swept under the carpet, I do believe that almost everything I have done with this forum have been either for the good of the forum or/and what the members have asked of me. The answer to your question is that it will be seriously discussed between a few of us and the results will be a major major decision maker.

Ainamore, nobody is seeking to sweep anything under the carpet - everything of that nature posted here is regurgitated from elsewhere, nothing is original, new, or even breaking-news.

If you find this kind of material interesting then bookmark http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/ - for your daily fix of lurid stories. Currently they have a story about two 4yos getting engaged, I'm surprised it hasn't been re-posted here yet.

The fact that it goes on should not be swept under the carpet.

I think the point is that whilst no one is denying that it goes on do we see posts here about every other (straight / female / and or A.N Other person) who is charged with such crimes posted here - no, usually not so it appears that theres some sort of permanent unconscious linkage between the words and worlds of Gay and Pedophile which is the perception we should work to put an end to.

Gay people are no more pedophiles than straight people might be - straight or gay a pedophile is a pedophile, same same, and yet somehow these types of situations always always seem to end up being reported as if in some way it has something even vaguely to do with or might be of "special" interest to gay people in some way perhaps more than straight people and that is the part that I can and should be viewed by the gay community in general as slightly offensive and our answers to these stories should be more " and WHY exactly are you telling ME this?"

This "confusion" also then leads the lets say less enlightened straight community to continually confuse THEIR perceptions between the difference between the word "gay" and "pedophile" causing and continuing homophobia - and if WE can't distinguish as to why these sorts of stories should be of no more interest to us than any other random item of news on the TV of an evening then how can and why are we surprised when the straight community cannot make that distinction either.

I would say all of the above is intended as a general overview type comment and I guess the only reason a story like that might appear here is if a lot of people might know the person involved and that's then not so much a gay straight thing but just more pure and simple gossip just like you would see if the local straight bar man in your favourite bar was charged with some crime I guess and rushed here to report it - which in itself is a bit sad and gossipy anyway and the person should look at their lives and maybe should think about getting out more !

[Neal]

Insults will get you nowhere SG. A story about some idiotic husband and wife saying thier twin boy and girl are to be engaged has nothing to do with the gay community so bringing this up as to why it is not posted here only goes to down play the seriousness of this discussion and poll. As far as the other comments, the stories are new, they are news and there are other stories that re reprinted here and on other forums so that people do not have to go to them and can get some news that pertains to our community right here.

[Neal]

And if some of know him why shouldn't we post it so that others know what he does and make an effort to be a friend or stay away?

[anonone]

Well...the 4 year olds are not a gay couple.... :sign5:

I have to go with Neal on this one. I do not spend time looking for Pattaya news...or Thai news for that matter. When someone comes across an article that might interest members, I don't see the harm in posting it. And as many of us spend time in Sunee plaza during trips, it certainly is relevant. For example, the article on the mamasan. I have seen her many times and actually spoken with her a couple of times. (And the subject of underage was never even hinted at).

Without someone posting, I would never have known about the allegations.

Now, a random pedo arrest with no implication that any tourist areas are involved...I don't care so much.

A story about some idiotic husband and wife saying thier twin boy and girl are to be engaged has nothing to do with the gay community .

Thank you neal you're just PERFECTLY demonstrated my point - a story about kids getting engaged has you say ( rightly) nothing to do with the gay community so why should it be posted here- but yet a story about pedophilia HAS it seems by your logic then "something" to do with my be gay and so by definition I "obviously" must then have some sort of special interest in the pedophila topic more than "normal" news hence its need to be reported to me - REALLY ? Why ? I don't see ANY link myself and if that statement was coming from a straight person I would very quickly by taking them to task about it.

I dont see to many stories for manasan gets arrested for not having motorbike licence or bar manager gets arrested for fighting at nightclub or etc etc as this would then enable us all to make the decisions already mentioned as to whether we might want to chose to stay away from that person or give them support as we see fit, but pedophilia apparently is a subject that we apparently should for some reason be more especially interested more than any other random crime for some reason it seems - why exactly ?

[Oliver]

Prurience?
Far too much interest in the subject. The UK gutter press experiences a cheap thrill (and a surge in profits) whenever a case comes to light. Prurience should neither be fed nor indulged.

And if some of know him why shouldn't we post it so that others know what he does and make an effort to be a friend or stay away?

So how many on here were "friends" with Khun Boonchoi - whose arrest has sparked the current debate?
How many were friends of the Sunee Mamasan recently "exposed" for the same offences.

Please reveal yourselves.

This is all utter hypocrisy - all the Pattaya great and good were perfectly happy to attend parties thrown by a certain (now deceased) person who was famous (amongst other things) for falling off the stage into the orchestra pit in front of the UK Queen Mother. His previous convictions and his reason for fleeing the UK did not weigh heavily on the minds of people as they drank his champagne and nibbled his canapes around the pool in his Pattaya mansion.

No, I'm sorry, I don't buy it - the re-posting of these items is in my opinion all about cheap sensationalism and, in some cases, a warped desire to relish in them in the same way that some people collect newspaper cuttings of murders.

As for the "poll" I have little doubt it will deliver the result it is intended to deliver.

Or worse still to the outside world reading the board perhaps a perception more of a " OH, look who got CAUGHT !!" thread perhaps :-(

NIrish, what makes matters worse is that with the exception of the latest story where the accused has apparently "confessed" - the vast majority of these stories are posted before the accused is tried and convicted or, alternatively, acquitted!

I assume that some of these people are found not guilty - yet I have never seen a retraction posted on SGF or any other of the gay fora.

As for the "poll" I have little doubt it will deliver the result it is intended to deliver - some very strange movement going on there which is not reflected in the comments.

[anonone]

I dont see to many stories for manasan gets arrested for not having motorbike licence or bar manager gets arrested for fighting at nightclub or etc etc as this would then enable us all to make the decisions already mentioned as to whether we might want to chose to stay away from that person or give them support as we see fit, but pedophilia apparently is a subject that we apparently should for some reason be more especially interested more than any other random crime for some reason it seems - why exactly ?

Actually, there was a story posted a while back...maybe last year...about an arrest for gambling in Sunee. I knew several of the pictured group, and was glad someone had posted it. It keeps my BF impressed with how much I know about the goings-on in Pattaya. :sign5:

I am a bit surprised by the strong feelings being expressed about this topic. I don't perceive it to be such a bit deal....but I don't care alot about what outside folks think if they stumble across the board.

[ceejay]

NIrish has said everything I would have wanted to say.

[a447]

Some re-postings from other sites can have hilarious consequences when the re-poster doesn't understand what is going on.

Who could forget the post of the video in the Japanese bathhouse where the boys were washing the backs of the old people. The poster thought it was an example of paedophilia in Japan. :sign5:

[Neal]

As for the "poll" I have little doubt it will deliver the result it is intended to deliver - some very strange movement going on there which is not reflected in the comments.


The second or third time you have mentioned it and while you have not stated excactly what you mean by it, I am pretty insulted by it. I asked a very valid question for which you have said that I did it in a way to get an intended outcome that I wanted. Bullshit. I asked a question and I am going to review the results as well as the comments.

As you know the final decision is up to me and I don't hide it. I am not looking for a verdict 51 - 49 so 51 wins. I am looking at what people say. What thier opinions are and why as well as the numbers. A 51 - 49 vote shows m that both sides have a strong opinion and I have to sit and think if I want to do something or not. People making repeticious comments will not sway my decision and if I did not wish to get an understanding of the members, well I would have just done whatever I wanted now wouldnt I have. So please stop these persona inuendos about what I will and will not do as they really are pissing me off.
:angryfire:

OK, let me spell out exactly what I mean - it is crystal clear to anybody that you are far from impartial in the debate.

The setting up of the poll was accompanied by a completely one-sided statement by yourself about nailing people's photographs up on trees among other things.

In this "poll" you have set yourself up as the referee, an active participant and the final judge, and you have made it clear what way you would like it to go.

The "NO" and the "Leave it to others" option took an early lead but was suddenly overtaken by a flurry of "YES" votes - but none of those flurry of votes has left any comment so far - I find it strange that none of these people commented. No more, no less.

Finally, you have stated that whatever the result you will not consider it binding and will do as you like anyway (after consulting with un-named "others")

Now, I do not wish to fall out or start an argument over this - but I doubt you can dispute any of the above.

:dontknow:

[Marsilius]

Personally I do not find it at all odd that the "yes" voters are not commenting at length - or, indeed, at all.

As "yes" voters are just voting to confirm the established status quo on this board, they clearly do not feel that this is much of an issue at all. Arrest reports have been appearing here for a long time and are hence perceived as "normal" content. As such, they are taken for granted. At the same time, prurience or just simple nosiness (and even Schadenfreude) are seen as perfectly normal human characteristics that hardly need to be defended.

It is those people who want to change the status quo who feel strongly about this issue and so are naturally the ones making the comments.

I suspect, too, that there is also an element of "If I admit to voting yes, I will be seen as having an unnatural interest in paedophilia and will be attacked here for that."

If I admit to voting yes, I will be seen as having an unnatural interest in paedophilia."

Like there's any other sort of interest OTHER than unatural ?? :-)

(I am joking I do know what you mean and dont' disagree with you on that one point maybe)

[Neal]

All I can say Scottish Guy is that you are so incorrect and as I said before I resent it. I resent it in a huge way. Obviously all decisions on the board are mine and binding. They are now and they always were, weren't they? As far as setting up the poll and then commenting on it as to which way I personally was voting when was I supposed to cast my vote and make my voice heard? When it was over? Maybe you are suggesting as being the owner I don't have a say or am I not allowed to voice my opinion? That would suck!! The way I vote has no bearing on how another person votes and I don't know how a person votes unless they say so in a post. I set up the poll because someone or a few (can't recall) said that these type of news flashes that appear in different places have no place on this forum. My thought at that time was WHY? It is older men and younger boys being introduced to each other through a mamasan. They are to me obviously gay and this is a gay forum. That is my opinion take it or leave it. I set up the poll to listen to others viewpoints as to why they do or don't think it is pertinent news and why.
As with limited moderation and other things, yes, the final decision is mine as to LISTEN to what others have to say and see the results. I am pissed and I have the right to be pissed because I could have just said this is the way I want to do it and that's the way it is. Rather I wanted to HEAR what others had to say and why.
When I had a business inside the USA I often called in all the employees to tell them about products I wanted to bring in and ideas I had. It was not thier company and the final decision was up to me BUT I wanted to hear thier thoughts and ideas while I made my decision. Maybe that is strange to you but that is the way I form an opinion on what direction I wish to go. As far as yeses not making comments? Well that is thier decision isn't it? I can't force them. Unfortunately for the NO's I still have not heard one single reason or explanation of why older men seeking younger boys through a mamasan is not a gay thing and therefore should not be reported. If some of those people would like to be heard but do not want to expose themselves, send me a PM. I will read it. I need to understand and that's why I did this. But dont tell me I did this with an ulterior motive cause that's bullshit.

I still have not heard one single reason or explanation of why older men seeking younger boys through a mamasan is not a gay thing and therefore should not be reported. If some of those people would like to be heard but do not want to expose themselves, send me a PM. I will read it. I need to understand and that's why I did this. But dont tell me I did this with an ulterior motive cause that's bullshit.

Ah but it's NOT older men seeking younger boys through a mamasan that we're talking about here, it's something quite different as it's someone attempting to supply UNDERAGE boys to a Pedophile - so that has EVERYTHING to do with Pedophila and absolutely NOTHING to do with people being gay or otherwise. Pedophiles are not gay people, pedophiles are pedophiles pure and simple and as to whether or not they are gay or straight is really of no significance whatsoever and there's a world of difference between those two statements.

[Neal]

I am sorry I wish to relate one more event and then I will refuse to say anything more on this thread, or so I think.

Some people who know me and know my past are aware of all the places I have visited. I visited Prague every 3 weeks for at least a year as well as Morocco. One day meaning to head off to Prague I slipped off a curb and ripped every ligament in my ankle. Rather than going to Prague I headed to the USA for medical attention. That weekend some 85 people were rounded up by the police and several arrested for pedophilia. While being interrogated others that they did not get in thier dragnet were questioned as to thier whereabouts. A picture of me was shown to all and I recieved many phone calls in the USA about it. Why I don't go with underage!? It took me three long years and an attorney before they realized that the correct person they were looking for was a Neil W. from Minnesota and not me. It cost me too much money and time and the ability to go someplace that I enjoyed because of a mix up. You are darned right that if a person is picked up for dealing with underage boys I want to know about it. If I know them or call them a friend I don't wish to associate with them anymore. I don't want to take them to dinner, have a phone converstion, help them get released from jail, nothing. I would ather read about it twice or three times than to be picked up or tailed for being a friend or associate. There you have my fear. I am quite happy here and I don't need to spend any part of it in jail because of another fuck up!

As to your statement NIrish I can understand your saying that pedophiles are different but the articles say older men with younger boys. If there was anything in thse articles to say older men with younger girls and boys I might agree with you. Please point out where it says that. I am going back to sleep.

I'm sorry Neal but (to me) you are not making any kind of cohesive sense.

I frankly do not know what you are talking about with this "older men and younger boys" malarkey. As NIrish has rightly said, we are talking about paedophiles and children - quite a different matter.

Also I frankly don't see how your former business practices of consulting your employees before YOU making a decision, has anything to do with running a poll. Seeking advice is perfectly valid and commendable but it is quite different from running a poll where people expect the result to be abided by.
Maybe people in Iraq or Zimbabwe, or Libya are used to the results of a poll being cast aside but those of us in "normal" countries are used to a poll result being respected. If you don't intend to accept the result then why have the poll - why not just ask for views :dontknow:

And, yes I have a problem with the "Poll" - I don't believe it's valid in any way, sense, or form and I have given a number of reasons which you have not addressed. Despite your dislike of repetition I will summarise them thus:

In all fairness you cannot personally set the questions; split the "NO" vote between 2 options so that the "YES" vote inevitably gets the highest count; accompany the questions with a loaded statement from yourself in favour of 1 option; decide you will be the referee in the poll; decide you will be the final judge in any case; and that if you don't get the result you clearly want you'll just ignore it.

Now I'm willing to accept that you maybe did not do it that way deliberately - but that is exactly what you have done!

You might as well just say "This is the way I want it, and this is how it's going to be" instead of having a "poll" with the implication that carries of some kind of "democracy" being in play .

Naturally, I knew the whole Prague story already - but does it perhaps illustrate that maybe you're too close to the situation to take an objective view?


:argue:

As to your statement NIrish I can understand your saying that pedophiles are different but the articles say older men with younger boys. If there was anything in thse articles to say older men with younger girls and boys I might agree with you. Please point out where it says that. I am going back to sleep.

I'm sorry Neal, I still don't think you understand my view and I'm not making much sense out of yours just now - so your view is that the pedo is being perceived as gay is enough reason for that info to be posted here ? Actually research clearly shows that most pedophiles do not actually identify as gay and may in fact assault both male and female children as its the child that interests them more than the sex of the child apparently and whilst knowing your story about the wrong ID guy etc I can fully understand your wish to protect yourself and I've already said if that info is being posted purely for a gossip then so be it, but I repeat again I don't see what pedophila - whether committed by a gay or straight person has anything to do with gay people / us / the board. Its a bit like when sitting in a group of straight people who know you're gay and something comes on the TV about some child that has been attacked and someone turns to you out of the whole company and say's "yeah so this whole Pedophila thing, I mean what's that about, why are you all into it so much" - as if gay people in general ( any more than straight people) would have the answer to that question. So I'm sure we could go on forever having this discussion but I'll not bother as I'm done with it - but if we're now saying that the reason these stories are put up here is so that we can all be aware to keep away from such people to protect ourselves ( although I don't see to many straight boards feeling the need to provide that "service" to their members) can we at least ensure that a) the person has been convicted of something ( as you know Neal shit sticks and you were innocent so you should offer the same courtesy to others until they are convicted ) and as we've established if it's to help us all spot the bad people out there then why not just go the whole hog and put a big sign on their pic with PEDO - keep away warnings to also assist us all perhaps - and that will apply to ALL pedos of course I trust - as one has nothing more than the other to do with me or any other gay person I know.

[loke]

I answered yes of course.

After all we are living in an open society , trying to hide things from the real world will not help this forum.

Sunnee area is a popular tourist destination , and hopefully not because of underage boys.
Thats why it is important to inform the members of this forum that we do not accept phaedophilia in Sunnee , so it will feel safe for the visitors.

I dont care if some of the old members here has a favourite mamasan or whatever , dont try to protect them .

[joe552]

If you think those of us who think articles about paedophilia have no place on a gay board take that view because we somehow want to protect mamasans we know, then you are sorely mistaken. The whole point being made is that paedophilia and being gay have nothing to do with each other. So stories about paedophilia have as little relevance to the board as what happens in the girlie bars in Pattaya

:notworthy:

[Sooty]

Sure, why would we not keep perpetuating the misconception that pedophiles are just a bunch of homos gone wrong (the "gay" view) or just a bunch of homos (the "straight" view)? The lunatic Right wants to keep the idea of "gay" and "pedophile" linked in people's minds. By all means let's keep talking about pedophiles on a gay message Board. What can be the harm in that?

[adman5000]

Somehow my vote made it to the board but my comments did not. It must have been a technical glitch.

My feelings are the same as NIrish Guy and Joe552. I think my earlier poll shows people are not primarily interested in sensational stories. If I want that, I go to that newspaper (and I do not.)

I feel very strongly that a pedophile-related story does not belong on this board entitled GAY THAILAND anymore than a GIRLY BAR REVIEW.

Neil, I think alerting others to a pedophilia situation and stating your opinion and position against such behavior is more effective than creating a poll on whether to report it and then offering a personal opinion that such a story should be freely reported. I do not think there is a clear connection of the two positions as they are different messages. But if you ask my opinion on whether it belongs on this board, I voted NO/Let the other Media report it.
:glasses7:

[Jellybean]

Great post, well said Joe552. You summed it up perfectly for me in a few short, succinct lines.

I will add that when I was in employment, a gay colleague of mine had a boyfriend who worked in social services. Whenever the subject of paedophilia occasionally raised its ugly head and our colleagues looked to us for an explanation, my colleague would remind those present that according to his boyfriend (who was privy to official UK statistics on this subject and worked with the children who had been the victims of paedophiles) that around 95% of paedophiles in the UK are heterosexual (straight) so why were homosexuals constantly being associated with this subject. Which I think is the point NIrish was making.

[a447]

Sooty wrote:
The lunatic Right wants to keep the idea of "gay" and "pedophile" linked in people's minds.

Not just the lunatic right. The French also, so it seems. A derogatory word in French for "gay" is "P├йd├й" which is short for "P├йd├йraste"- an older man who has sex with young boys.

I also agree with Joe (I usually do!)

Well, it's not just France either - worldwide, paedophilia is deliberately conflated with homosexuality - despite the cast-iron fact that the vast majority of child abuse is not only perpetrated by men who would identify themselves as heterosexual, but occurs within the family.

These are uncomfortable facts which Governments and broadcasters and the general population do not wish to face, so a scapegoat group has to be found to pin it on - and that scapegoat group is gay men.

Any child abuse scandal which breaks will have Governments and broadcasters frantically searching for a "boy" somewhere, so that it can be widely reported, attention can be diverted, and (at the very least) a suggestion planted that the perpetrator "must" have been, to some extent at least, gay.

In the current Jimmy Savile case there have been complaints lodged by hundreds of girls and one single boy - but it is routinely reported by the British Brainwashing Corporation that he abused "both girls and boys" - yes, strictly speaking this may be true - but ask yourself why not just say "children"? Why is this one boy made out to be so significant? The answer is because, in the collective mindset, it then takes him out of the "normal" world (which he was never in anyway) and places him outwith "heterosexuality" but somewhere on the fringes of "homosexuality". People feel far more comfortable with the idea that Uncle Jimmy was some kind of a poof at least.

Populating this forum with lurid stories unnecessarily re-hashed from other sources, raising this (and other) gay forums high on the Google rankings for such content merely perpetuates these myths - and far from disassociating this forum from paedophilia (as some have cited as justification of posting such content) reproducing these stories on SGF and other gay fora only serves to promote the "great lie"

[Neal]

What you seem to be addressing is not what I am addressing. Apples and oranges as they say. These two stories have to do with older men seeking explicitly younger boys. Gay men. In the case of the mamasan it was a mamasan working in a gay bar in a gay area. The customer was known to the mamasan and provided services. Like it or not there are gay men out there that do like boys under the age of consent either 17 or as young as 12 - 15. They are not straight they are gay. Sure there hopefully not many but the important point to me in reprinting a news article is not that they are a pedophile who goes after girls and boys but a gay man who is looking for younger boys and there are. Look at the situaation of Malcolm who fled Thiland after his arrest and died in Argentina. It was well known he was a gay man who liked young boys. When an arrest is made with certain documentation are we just supposed to ignore it? Sweep it under the rug because it was bad publicity for gays? These and others are the questions I am asking and sorry SG but I would love to hear from others also.

You have made 8 contributions to this thread and I have made 8 also (excluding this direct response) - so I see no disparity and no reason or justification to imply that I am dominating the debate any more than you are.

[Neal]

I merely would like to her other peoples opinion. I am quite aware of what yours is. Thank you.

And us yours. Scots as far as I'm concerned you're beng on with everything you've said - so there's two opinions Neal and likewise several other posters have expressed similar opinions so I guess you can count those as well, there are however a glaring lack of Pro views for publishing pedo articles but it seems perhaps that the vote shows that they those views are in the majority so perhaps for the sake of a balanced discussion it would be useful to hear from those holding the majority view as why they they think that I guess.

Although if people still think that after the deluge of comment pointing if why its a bad idea and why it does the gay community a disservice in general posting said topics on here then I fear that after all that has already been said anything after this is just a waste of bandwidth really by either camp as its a fairly simple point to grasp really.

But I'm guessing its all a bit of a moot point anyway and this to me certainly was never a vote as to should we or shouldn't we post that sort of stuff here literally but was merely a discussion, but it seems that that can now HAS been opened and perhaps like ANY contentious issue it should be removed and posting of such topics be desisted from simply to ensure peace, love and harmony remains on the board if nothing else no matter who is right or wrong ?

[pennyboy]

I voted in favour as I thought a sunee mamasan being arrested was of some interest and I strongly resent any other implication being somehow attached to my interest. It was simply referring us to an article in a local paper and did not seem to me lurid or satisfy anything other than my interest. The whole thing seems to me to be now blown out of all proportion with accusations of conspiracies and somehow confirmation to some casual viewer that gays are all pedos.
That assumption is as erroneous as equating peadophilia with all illegal under age sex.

[joe552]

That assumption is as erroneous as equating peadophilia with all illegal under age sex.

I'm not sure what you mean by this - perhaps you could expand a bit? :dontknow:

[dab69]

That assumption is as erroneous as equating peadophilia with all illegal under age sex.

I'm not sure what you mean by this - perhaps you could expand a bit? :dontknow:


actual definition of pedophilia is pre-pubescent sex.
this has been expanded by some to include all underage sex

illegal underage is up to 17.999, whatever local laws apply.
or, in Thailand, sex with farang @ age 15, 16, 17 which would normally be legal for Thai.

In the USA most states have ~16 aoc unless:
you pay them (illegal for prostitution, like Thailand)
show/take pictures (illegal for porn)
get them intoxicated (illegal for alcohol/drugs)
then they throw the book at you

Local lawyer almost got busted for sex with a 15 yo boy, and my curiosity got peaked when I saw
the charge in the newspaper was sex with under 16 yo (aoc locally)

[ainamor]

As was pointed out in a different discussion on this board all of the time that posters on gay forums continue to use the word 'boys' there will be a perception amongst many people that this is reference to young boys and with the reputation that Pattaya already has this will only serve to reinforce that thinking.

At least if the news articles are reproduced or linked to on the board then the casual or accidental visitor can see the comments deploring such acts which helps to give a balanced view. To say that it is only rehashed news is stating the bloody obvious by the very fact that they are news items that have already been published in the media.

I think that sometimes people who object to seeing these sort of stories in print have more personal reasons for not wishing it publicised that he underage trade is alive and kicking, sometimes the lady doth protest too much!

[quote="ainamor"} I think that sometimes people who object to seeing these sort of stories in print have more personal reasons for not wishing it publicised that he underage trade is alive and kicking, sometimes the lady doth protest too much![/quote]

What are you saying !? What that all the people on here who have voted "no" and expressed their opinions as to why they would prefer not to see such stories on the board have "more personal reasons" for holding that view - perhaps you'd like to enlarge on that view as other that could be considered quite an offensive comment to a lot of people on the board ( almost 50% actually who have expressed an opinion on the matter) - or maybe just retract the ridiculous comment - either or perhaps.

[ainamor]

I think that sometimes people who object to seeing these sort of stories in print have more personal reasons for not wishing it publicised that he underage trade is alive and kicking, sometimes the lady doth protest too much!

What are you saying !? What that all the people on here who have voted "no" and expressed their opinions as to why they would prefer not to see such stories on the board have "more personal reasons" for holding that view - perhaps you'd like to enlarge on that view as other that could be considered quite an offensive comment to a lot of people on the board ( almost 50% actually who have expressed an opinion on the matter) - or maybe just retract the ridiculous comment - either or perhaps.

If you bothered to read my postsI said I wrote "sometimes" which means that some people who post may have reasons, to try and say I am referring to everyone who posts is just as ridiculous as some of your other reasons for not including the news articles on the board.

Ainamor - I really don't think it is helpful for you to attribute unsubstantiated ulterior motives to people not wishing to see such stories reproduced on this board.

All who have contributed on the side of "NO" have given good and coherent reasons why they feel that way.
Obviously you disagree, but you should have the good grace to accept and respect their viewpoint, and not feel the need to throw muck about.

Bad show, dear boy.

[pennyboy]

I agree Sg and for you to suggest that those who voted yes have some ulterior motive in wishing so is equally abhorrent.
Bad show dear boy!

[Neal]

It seems that everyone is taking this argument far too personal and I would not have brought it up in this manner had I thought that the billy clubs and everything would appear.

Now maybe I am naive and don't pick up on things so quickly and I agree but I would have always considered a pedophile a person who liked girls boys under the age of about 12. I would, in my mind, consider those who liked to have sex with boys only between the ages of 12 - 14 ill and needed to be locked up but in my mind I would not have classified them as a pedophile. 15 & 16 to me it is illegal in many places but not a pedophile and illegal wherever it was deemed illegal.
17 year old, walking very close to the line.

Now the point that I am having a problem with is two fold. First, what do you consider classifies as a pedophile? and 2 when a man picks up a boy of lets say 13 yeas old and the man only likes to have sex with 13 & 14 year old boys does this also classify him as a pedophile?

The reason I ask this is because there re countries where 14 is/was legal now or at one time so if it was legal were they pedophiles? Is it wrong to copy reports of people who engage in sex and are arrested for having sex with a 15 year old? Are these people pedophiles also?

Really I am just confusd on this all and the answers we are getting are too heated and not really explaining what the differences in all this is.
The basic answer I think I have been getting is that Thailand and gays in general are considered pedophiles or are looked at this way and articles showing a gay man associting with an underage boy is only continues to show that this is true. I dont reprint articles of men having sex with little girls because it is not soemthing that effects our community.

The poll was never binding it was to help me understand how people felt on the issue and the responses were for me to understand this better not for ripping apart the board and everyone getting insulted about thier views.

I agree Sg and for you to suggest that those who voted yes have some ulterior motive in wishing so is equally abhorrent....

But I'm right and they're wrong - so that makes it OK.


:sign5:

[Beachlover]

The whole point being made is that paedophilia and being gay have nothing to do with each other. So stories about paedophilia have as little relevance to the board as what happens in the girlie bars in Pattaya
I agree that paedophilia and being gay have nothing to do with each other but you could argue that paedophilia and Pattaya and Sunee Plaza do.


Well, it's not just France either - worldwide, paedophilia is deliberately conflated with homosexuality
Maybe I'm seeing the world through a different perspective but I disagree...

I agree that this was certainly the case in the past but I think attitudes have or are becoming (depending on which part of the world you're in) more informed now.

In Australia, I think only the most narrow minded fringe associate paedophilia with being gay. And anyone who gets up and publicly voices or implies this is pretty much immediately ostracised and seen as an extremist. I know at least one politician (might be more than one) who's been sacked for voicing such a view in the last 6 months.

[a447]

Neal wrote:
First, what do you consider classifies as a pedophile?

It has nothing to do with what we as individuals consider pedophilia to be; it is not something for us to judge. It is simply what the law of the country says it is. We can only agree or disagree with the law, which is based on the age of the child concerned. Countries vary on the age and obviously, we as individuals also have an opinion on what age is appropriate for sex.


there re countries where 14 is/was legal now or at one time so if it was legal were they pedophiles?

No, not if it was classified as legal.

Also, one act of sex with an underage boy is not considered to be pedophile behaviour - there must be evidence of repeated sexual encounters/fantasies, etc. If it is a one-off situation, or if a pattern of predatory behaviour cannot be established, the perpetrator can be charged with Child Sexual Abuse in some countries. I don't know if such a law exists in Thailand.

[Neal]

Well then what you are saying is the exact predicament that I have seen and that is that pedophilia in one country may not be in another as that age might be legal. The other problem then exists if it is based on repeated offenses and or fantasies then re printing an article based on a man caught havig sex with a boy under the age of 15 may in itself not be a pedophile?

[a447]

That's right; he may not necessarily be a pedophile in some jurisdictions.

When newspapers report the arrest of a "pedophile' I doubt they have checked his previous behaviour to ascertain whether or not he has a history. But as I said, I am unaware of the law relating to this in LOS. Maybe a one-off is classified as pedophilia in LOS.

As the ages relating to pedophilia vary from country to country, it is up to the older person to acquaint himself with the law of the country he is visiting. There should be no confusion.

[Neal]

So in other terms a person who regularly goes with young males 17 in age in a country where 18 is the law is considered a pedophile? Then again the world in which we live where the age of consent was 12, they were not pedophiles?

[a447]

So in other terms a person who regularly goes with young males 17 in age in a country where 18 is the law is considered a pedophile?

Yes, if that is what the law in that country states. But more likely, it would be an Age of Consent issue as pedophilia refers to children and each country sets the age limit differently.

BTW in some jurisdictions, under the Age of Consent laws which bans ,say,12 to 15 year olds having sex, it is ok for a 15 year old to have sex with a 13 year old, as a 2 year age difference (maximum) is permissible. No offense has been committed unless one of the participants is more than 2 years older than the other.

[pennyboy]

I disagree with A447. A paedophile is a person who engages in sex with a pre-pubescent child, generally 11yo but can be up to 13yo.
The law is decided by the age of consent in each country. In the Uk it is legal to have sex with a 16yo but not in Thailand. That does not mean a person who has sex with a 16yo becomes a paedophile in Thailand but not in UK. It makes the act illegal in Thailand. The word paedophile is more emotive than "engaged in under age sex" and is commonly misused particularly in the Uk press. It's a pity it has spread to this forum.

[a447]

Pennyboy, read my post again. I think we are actually agreeing with each other.

I was deliberately careful in my wording because, as I stated, I am unaware of the situation in Thailand - and most other countries in the world for that matter.

I refrained from making any definitive statement and therefore, was only talking in general terms. It is why I said "In some jurisdictions...." as I cannot comment on them all. But generally speaking, it encompasses prepubescent children as you said.

I would be interested to know the law in Thailand.

And yes, I agree with you that there is a general misunderstanding of the word "pedophile' in the media. I pointed out one common misconception in my post above. Another misconception is that there has to be a sexual act involved. And again, the psychiatric definition does not necessarily coincide with the legal definition across all jurisdictions.

But it makes the story more interesting and sells more newspapers.

....As the ages relating to pedophilia vary from country to country, it is up to the older person to acquaint himself with the law of the country he is visiting....

There may be little point in doing that...in the majority of cases, the AOC applying to your home country travels with you, except where your home country's AOC is lower than that of your host country.

In other words, you may visit a Country where the AOC is 15 (fairly common in Europe) and if you "act" on that and your home country's AOC is 18 or even 16 you have still committed an offence for which you could be prosecuted on your return home.

I also dispute the first part of your sentence above - in my view the AOC does not relate directly to paedophilia, it relates purely to whether or not the AOC law has been broken.
Thus, where an AOC of 16 is in place, many people (myself included) would regard a 19yo fucking a 15yo as certainly having broken the law but not necessarily as a paedophile unless there was a pattern of similar offending.
Similarly a 65yo fucking a girl or boy his on his/her 16th birthday has not broken the law - but many would regard him as a paedophile even though the law and the Oxford English Dictionary may say otherwise.

PS I haven't actually checked what the OED says - no doubt somebody will

[a447]

you may visit a Country where the AOC is 15 (fairly common in Europe) and if you "act" on that and your home country's AOC is 18 or even 16 you have still committed an offence for which you could be prosecuted on your return home.

Yes, that is the case in Australia, but I don't know whether or not it is the same for all countries. I doubt it.


I also dispute the first part of your sentence above - in my view the AOC does not relate directly to paedophilia, it relates purely to whether or not the AOC law has been broken.

Unfortunately, SG, it has nothing to do with peoples' views - it only has to do with what the law says. In Australian law the AOC does, in fact, relate directly to paedophilia in that here a child is defined as someone below the AOC. However, in reference to your example, it would be much more likely, in reality, for the person to be charged with a different offence relating to underage sex.

In medical terms paedophilia refers in Australia to pre-pubescent children (usually defined as 13 and under) and that is how I think most people view it but the majority of courts in OZ accept the socio-legal definition; ie. under the AOC.

It's a very complicated, imprecise and controversial area of the law.

But getting back to the original topic, most guys "convicted" of paedophilia in the local newspapers are probably not guilty.

[Daniel-old]

I donтАЩt think the label тАШpaedophileтАЩ is particularly helpful in such a discussion. With regard to the age of consent, I feel sixteen is reasonable. However, while two seventeen-years-olds dating each other may be acceptable, IтАЩm not sure whether itтАЩs appropriate for a forty-year-old to date a seventeen-year-old. If the couple are not of a similar age, then I think the younger party should be at least eighteen.

.....With regard to the age of consent, I feel sixteen is reasonable. However, while two seventeen-years-olds dating each other may be acceptable...

Some confusion here - if you think 16 is reasonable then there can be no "maybe" when 2 x 17yos are concerned.


....If the couple are not of a similar age, then I think the younger party should be at least eighteen.

Presumably you would also apply this to heterosexuals of course - so you better start lobbying for a change in the law almost all round the world.

You haven't really thought this through have you?

[joe552]

Sorry, what was the question again? :dontknow:

[lonelywombat]

Daniel you understand that when Thais have their birthday, they take up their age a full year before what we think as their birthday

So if you think 16 is reasonable, just remember in the west he is only 15

[Khor tose]

In spite of the overwhelming poll numbers, Scottish guy seems to be fighting a lonely fight and taking a lot of abuse for it. I have seen a lot of very good arguments on both sides of the issue and admire Irish guy's stance, but think Scottish guy is correct and all of you are ignoring the elephant in the room. Pedaphiles--whether you define it by age of consent or the absence of puberty--like to hide in the gay community. We not only talking about the men who like little boys, but the men who like both, or girls only. Our community is where they can get away without having a girl friend and has always been one of the places for them to hide along with various chaste organizations like the Catholic Priesthood. Sorry, Neal when these creeps are discovered, I want to know who they are. Furthermore, I do not believe that these guys are that large a determent to our community, in that the people who know gays know better, and the people who hate us need no excuses. Just stop and think about the Catholic Church, which has had hundreds of pedophiles in its priesthood and leadership, and yet no one is ready to tar the church or all priest as pedophiles., nor the boy scout's leaders, nor all teachers, nor all coaches, etc.

[corky]

Maybe Neal should open a new forum?
Currently we have 'Gay Thailand', 'Global Forum', 'Gay SE Asia', etc etc. Why not have a new, extra forum "News of Pedophiles Caught in Thailand"
This will keep the 'Gays and Pedophiles are not the same' group happy and will also satisfy the 'Name and Shame' lobby.

[Khor tose]

Maybe Neal should open a new forum?
Currently we have 'Gay Thailand', 'Global Forum', 'Gay SE Asia', etc etc. Why not have a new, extra forum "News of Pedophiles Caught in Thailand"
This will keep the 'Gays and Pedophiles are not the same' group happy and will also satisfy the 'Name and Shame' lobby.


No the we would need one other additional forum called "A forum for all of those who like to keep their heads buried in the sand". I mean if you can't see it, it does go away, right?

I'm sorry but that's a ridiculous argument KT - if such stories were not copied and pasted here, they could easily still be seen where they originate from - and 90%+ of the time that would be Pattaya Daily News.

I mean, it's not as if your average ex-pat is so rushed off his feet every day that he has "no time" to read a paper or visit a website - especially as we are being led to believe that their prime motivation in wanting to read these lurid stories published on SGF is to find out if their next door neighbour or drinking buddy might be a kiddy-fiddler!
Sex-tourists and casual visitors have even more time on their hands and should have no difficulty banging the appropriate letters on the keyboard!

Even better - you do not even have to buy the newspaper - there is always the free PDN website!

An added bonus of buying the paper or visiting the PDN site is that readers might see that these "paedophile cases" (whilst reprehensible) are in fact a fraction of the crime that goes on in Thailand - whereas if one was to believe the various gay fora, all that ever happens of note in Pattaya is farang flying off balconies and people soliciting child-sex.

But you need not fear - I'm quite certain the editorial policy will continue exactly as before - after all the board owner's view is (currently) supported by an (as you yourself put it) "overwhelming" 56% of respondents.

:occasion9:

[corky]

... these "paedophile cases" (whilst reprehensible) are in fact a fraction of the crime that goes on in Thailand - whereas if one was to believe the various gay fora, all that ever happens of note in Pattaya is farang flying off balconies and people soliciting child-sex...


But apart from that and counting the turds in the sea, what is there to do in Pattaya?

Respond to online polls, apparently.

[Khor tose]

I'm sorry but that's a ridiculous argument KT - if such stories were not copied and pasted here, they could easily still be seen where they originate from - and 90%+ of the time that would be Pattaya Daily News.



You are forgetting that those of us with impeccable taste do not live in Pattaya, so this is the only place we can read about them. :hello2:

LOL - clearly your "impeccable taste" does not extend to preventing you accessing the internet, so why could you not read the PDN "Paedo-A-Day" stories in all their gory and lurid detail on their website?

:evil4:

[anonone]

I am curious about something....

Does anyone know if the straight Thai boards post news about underage busts in their areas?

I realize some gay men are sensitive to the whole pedo / gay thing....hopefully as the world is becoming more accepting of gays, this fades into history. Also curious if the "older" SGT members are the ones that lean more toward this sensitivity. I am mid 40s, and really don't have the same experience with people thinking pedo=gay, so maybe it is a generational thing?

I think I mentioned it before. I really don't care about the odd pedo arrest somewhere in Thailand. I am interested when it has some connection to "tourist" Thailand, as that is where I spend the majority of time. I would be equally interested in news of a pedo arrest in BFs hometown, as I spend time there....but I somehow don't see that making the news.

[joe552]

anonone, check out the Pattaya forum on Thaivisa for a current debate on pedo = gay. might give some pause for thought

Very interesting Joe - apart from exposing the knuckle-dragging mentality which leads the Thaivisa posters to say that paedophile = gay, it is also illuminating as to the reason many of them give for coming to that conclusion: That they invariably read news reports about men + underage boys in the newspapers and forums.
As one Thaivisa member proclaims - the reports he reads are 99% men + underage boys, therefore paedophilia it must be a gay problem

Exactly the sort of "evidence" that (currently) 56% of SGF members seem happy to continue dishing up on this forum "in case I happen to know the accused"

But whilst I searched for the debate you referred to Joe - I also found this little gem from a 'normal str8' person who goes by the name of Rene123 - if it wasn't so disturbing, his view of himself as being 'normal' would be funny:


Posted 2013-02-13 23:30:54
......If I was living here full time I would like to take care of a young girl on the verge of puberty. I might be able to guide her in a way that would be beneficial for her in the future.

Yeah, Rene123 - I bet you'd like that.

[Magnum]

I voted with yes as (a) I'm curious and fascinated about abnormal things and (b) it remembers me to be very careful which boy I take with me. I really wouldn't like to have the police in my hotel room. Generally I can say that many of my friends an family think that all gays are some kind of pedos. A man with a child (younger 13) is some of the worst thing I can imagine.

[Brad the Impala]

Very interesting Joe - apart from exposing the knuckle-dragging mentality which leads the Thaivisa posters to say that paedophile = gay, it is also illuminating as to the reason many of them give for coming to that conclusion: [color=#0000BF]That they invariably read news reports about men + underage boys in the newspapers and forums.

However I don't imagine that (m)any of the straight posters on Thai Visa are reading gay forums like this one. If they did, I would imagine that they would in any case jump to the incorrect conclusion that when so many posters refer to their boys, they are referring to underage males, rather than adults.

[Diec]

I for one love this topic. Every expat living in Pattaya knows of a pedophile in their midst, but do not talk about it. The expat community is small and living in Pattaya is so boring talking about each other is all they have. I know personally one poor soul who for whatever reason got caught recently and it cost him 10's of thousands of dollars to get out of it. It's a silent code not to rat anyone out. In straight or gay eyes, it's just strange for anyone to see having a relationship with someone who is 50+ years their junior. I'm in my 70's and would never show my family or fellow co-workers pictures of my 18yo lover.

There you go Neal, you have been very strong about never wanting to be seen to brush this topic under the carpet and that it should be talked about openly on the board for all to read, so, there's a direct claim from Diec, a long standing ( expat?) member of this very board who states quite clearly that EVERY expat in Pattata actually know pedophiles in their midst in Pattaya and do not talk about about it and worse still that there is in fact a SILENT CODE among you all not to rat these people out !!! - making you all an accessory to a crime then I would assume !!??

That's quite a startling revelation about all ex pats and is of course a very serious allegation to find being made on a public forum by an actual (expat?) member of this board and one which both yourself as an ex pat - who by definition we must assume is involved in this conspiracy of silence and also as board owner you perhaps you would like to comment on these allegations as I would like to hear from you quite urgently regarding those claims and also then perhaps about the very nature and possible purpose of the membership of this board as IF all ex pats as claimed ( many of whom are members on this very board of course) ARE all involved in knowingly shielding pedophiles from the law as claimed as if true I for one then will of course be resigning my membership from this board of ex-pat Pedophile enablers with immediate effect and I'm sure many others would share that view.

Meanwhile, I'm glad at least that we can have these sorts of open and frank conversations here on a totally public gay forum which is no doubt read and used as a research tool by very many people and NGO's etc worldwide for their own reasons, some to perhaps promote gay life in Thailand and some perhaps not. I have no doubt that they find topics such as this and posts such as the one Diec has just made a very valuable resourse to support their various causes - "whatever" they may be - and posts such as the above, with nothing being swept under the carpet, can only then surely be doing the gay community in Thailand and elsewhere a great service - can't they ?

[a447]

Hang on, Nrishguy. Diec is but ONE expat. He is talking, apparently, on behalf of ALL expats.


Every expat living in Pattaya.....

I mean, Neal is an expat and Diec tells us that

a) he knows him and

b) that Neal is somehow adhering to some kind of "silent code" to protect paedophiles

Sorry, but I just refuse to accept that aspersion cast upon Neal. And I don't think you believe it, either.

Diec has tarred every expat with the same brush.

Maybe you should wait to hear from more than one expat.

Hang on, Nrishguy. Diec is but ONE expat. He is talking, apparently, on behalf of ALL expats.


Every expat living in Pattaya.....

Maybe you should wait to hear from more than one expat.

I mean, Neal is an expat and Diec knows him and tells us that Neal is somehow adhering to some kind of "silent code" to protect paedophile

Sorry, but I just refuse to accept that aspersion cast upon Neal.

Diec has tarred every expat with the same brush.


You misunderstand me - that's EXACTLY my point ! As with one post someone CAN smear the reputation of an entire group of (gay) people on a public forum - and this from one of our OWN members ! - and as I've said all along I fail to see how such topics as this can serve to better the interests of gay pattaya / the gay community as a whole in ANY way on this board and am inviting Neal to give his thoughts both on the allegations made and the usefulness of this type of thread in general to the gay community as he was the one who stated that these matters shouldn't be swept under the carpet - this is simply his wishes being carried out - good idea and a positive thing for the gay community or not - you tell me ???

[a447]

I fail to see how such topics as this can serve to better the interests of gay pattaya / the gay community as a whole in ANY way on this board

I'm with you on that. As we know paedophilia is not crime only committed by gay men on boys. Posting about it on SGT tends to reinforce the mistaken view that it is a gay crime.

But also, under law these people are most likely not paedophiles. I just wish people/newspapers would stop accusing people of crimes they have not committed.

[Neal]

Diec is talking about himself and only himself. Sorry but it is a dialysis day and I was sleeping. Diec's comments are way out of line and actually this thread has gotten way out of line. The thread here is a poll and discussion. The discussion was based to understand and hear the members talk about what it is and how they wished to have it REPORTED on the forum or to leaave it to the regualr news media alone. It is obvious by this healthy discussion that pedophilia is not a gay problem but yet a problem for straights, gays and all of humanity and therefore will not be posted on this forum and while I did not state so yet I believe I had hinted towards that several posts ago. I had not intended to discuss my findings regarding all of this as the end of this discussion and poll had not been reached yet.

The reporting on and reprinting of articles regarding persons being arrested for acts to boys 17 or under as immoral and illegal MAY be reprinted and I will look at it on a case by case basis. The difference again was an understanding of the word pedophile a person who prays on innocent children of both sexes and actively searches out and behaves in this manner. They are positively two different things and I opened this poll and discussion to understand the difference. I can now move forward with a more positive undertanding on this difference.

Now with regard to Diec's comments. Surely I don't know where to begin but I will try. If we were in the USA, which we clearly are not, Diec would be looked at as excercising his first amendment right to free speech even though I feel his comments are wrong, deplorable and unfactual. I believe or I hope I believe that 99 9/10 of all the expats in Pattaya do NOT know or want to know or want to rub elbows with either a pedophile much less anyone that goes to bed with boys under the age of consent, but I have to rely based on my own knowledge and discussions with many many expats over my 12 year period here. I dare say that is a lot of people.

Comments like this one will not be allowed and not because I am tring to "sweep it under the rug" but because I am allowing it to stand. To let everyone know that this IS out in the open and how out of line it is to not only me but other members. This board nor its members do not support this type of behavior, never did, never will but as a young board it is obvious that when I go into unchartered waters, I need to learn a few things as to where some conversations may lead. I cannot just follow the customs of the old board without understanding the whys and sometimes it may be a bit too late to realize it as a good policy and that it may have been for the better if I had not questiond it but like a child, we all mut touch that flame on the stove. We will have the Manson's of the world come forward and say this is normal behavior but we all know inside this is not and is the screams of someone who has some issues.

By not allowing a transparency into some of our lives and actions people will tend to think it is a cloak and dagger tell no secrets society, so I let his comment stand this time but publically condemn it and say that discussions reagrding the advocating or condonement of pedophilia or having sex with minors under the age of 18 will not be allowed and are currently and have not been allowed since the inception of this board. PERIOD.

I don't know what more I can say? Again this poll and discussion was about knowing anyone who breaks the law and reprinting it on this site, to serve as a WARNING not for advocating it. If I were to close this or another thread down I feel that I am hiding something not only from the members but for anyone from the outside that may come across it. I have nothing to hide in reference to this. I for one am not aware of anyone that plays with minors unless it is someone not known to me out of fear that I will not associate myself with them condemn thier behavior and anyone that actively behaves in this manner is requested to find another board to have fun on.

Now I am having problems with the length of this post and in order to spell check it I need to save it now as everyone knows that because of last years stroke my spelling has gotten horrible and I think I am pressing keys and seems I am not. The letters and my thoughts get a bit jumbled but I am clear here with what I wish to say. We do not advocate pedophilia or sex with minors in any way shape or form and I certainly do not know anyone or any member that does except if Diec knows these people as he to and seems to be part of this secret silent expat community, to please leave this board.

I still think this discussion has been healthy. It shows we have brains and blood and it can still get our dander up although it has gone way off course.
I ask if there are any final comments so that this and another thread can be closed and die a rather painful death which is far overdue.

[Brad the Impala]

You misunderstand me - that's EXACTLY my point ! As with one post someone CAN smear the reputation of an entire group of (gay) people on a public forum - and this from one of our OWN members ! - and as I've said all along I fail to see how such topics as this can serve to better the interests of gay pattaya / the gay community as a whole in ANY way on this board and am inviting Neal to give his thoughts both on the allegations made and the usefulness of this type of thread in general to the gay community as he was the one who stated that these matters shouldn't be swept under the carpet - this is simply his wishes being carried out - good idea and a positive thing for the gay community or not - you tell me ???

Most people in the world know that Pattaya has a reputation as a sex tourist destination. Many of those also know of the availability, or likely availability, of under age girls and boys. That is why people with those tastes are drawn to Pattaya. That is why it is also positive than when such people are caught, it is publicized and that their arrests can send warnings to those who think that they can mistreat children in Thailand with impunity.

There is nothing to be gained by pretending such behaviour doesn't exist.

Although this forum is noted as a Gay Thailand forum, it has always been the case that general news about all aspects of Thailand, both good and bad, have a place here. I therefore don't understand the heated debate about the associating of homosexuals with pedophiles. Just because posts about the arrests of pedophiles, or those facilitating them, are reported here suggests neither association nor approval. Just as reporting a murder is not an endorsement of the act!

The difference is that only a mentally-deranged person would read a report of a murder here and draw the conclusion that SGF members are all murderers.

Whereas, the constant re-posting of paedophile stories here shows up on Google (see my previous posts indicating this), non-deranged people see that, may even visit this site, and come to what may well be the entirely unjustified but unfortunately not uncommon impression amongst str8 people that paedophile=gay (as we can clearly see from comments of "str8" people on ThaiVisa).

But apart from that, I come back to my original question - what good does it do to have this content re-hashed on SGF when it is available (and indeed sourced from) elsewhere?

I have not heard any arguments except "Oh I like to know if my next door neighbour, drinking buddy, or favourite mamasan has been arrested for being a paedophile" - and

"Oh, it allows us to tut-tut and show our disapproval of such behaviour, and by doing so everybody will realise that the middle aged and elderly men who make up most of the SGF membership, and who just fuck twink and tween prostitutes half to 1/3rd our age are not in fact paedophiles"

Well, :sign5: to both of those arguments - what a crock of shit.

[Neal]

I fail to see how the constant rehashing of articles on the subject consists of TWO and actuall one is under the age of consent and does not mention an alleged crime of pedophilia. Your point is also well taken that


only a mentally-deranged person would read a report of a murder here and draw the conclusion that SGF members are all murderers.

Are you seriously suggesting that over the years there have only ever been TWO reports of paedophile/underage arrests which have been re-reported on SGF?

And if you are going to quote me, please do not leave the next sentence out out and thus completely change the emphasis.

[Neal]

A) No the quote was yours and I really thought it was said very well indeed.

B) And what is this "over the yeas" shit? Am I to blame for what is on the threads before my time? Is the next owner supposed to be held accoutable for what was before me and that I also did? :sign5:

[Neal]

Excuse me. A quick search of threads which started with my reprinting of arrests on this topic was not two but an astronomical three and another which I was waning a user that posting in such an advocating way was against board rules and would not be tolerated.


George, I do not have to GO LOOK. Nothing will be printed on this board about anything that may or may not be underage sex or drinking,
or pedophilia!! Do we understand this? It is twice I have deleted stuff to this and you keep going back to it. Nothing about this is to be posted. READ THE GUIDE LINES! :angryfire:

What about threads which you did not start?

Look, there is no point having any further discussion with you on this matter - you will do exactly as you like anyway (as is your privilege).

The only development is that you can now claim to have the overwhelming support of 58% of the members who bothered to vote.

Enjoy.

:sign5:

PS - THIS is the correct (and full) quote


The difference is that only a mentally-deranged person would read a report of a murder here and draw the conclusion that SGF members are all murderers.

Whereas, the constant re-posting of paedophile stories here shows up on Google (see my previous posts indicating this), non-deranged people see that, may even visit this site, and come to what may well be the entirely unjustified but unfortunately not uncommon impression amongst str8 people that paedophile=gay (as we can clearly see from comments of "str8" people on ThaiVisa).

:occasion9:

[Neal]

Please SG just kill me.
Again a partial quote


The only possible comfort is that Gaybuttonthai ranked #2, Baht Stop #4, with SGF "trailing" at #5.

[Neal]

The post above quoting the Rules and Guidelines that it is not topic to promote, condone or support any language that would condone or support pedophilia is against the rules. It has been since I started and will continue to be. This discussion is not an attempt to circumvent, or change it, it was an attempt to understand why some members were against any arrests being made regarding this subject were a bad idea!

No would ya get the fucking kitchen knife otta my back it hurts when you keep twisting it. Just stick it in and get it over with. :banghead:

Please SG just kill me.
Again a partial quote


The only possible comfort is that Gaybuttonthai ranked #2, Baht Stop #4, with SGF "trailing" at #5.


Let me get this right - you're celebrating that last week your forum was ranked #5 on Google under the search terms "underage boys pattaya"?


If you get to #1 will you throw a party?


:party

The rest of your post I can not make any sense of.

[Neal]

I am celebrating that out of the forums you said I trailed. I have to assume that out of the gay ones you mean LAST. Go pick on the first 3!!!

OK you sucseeded! You have killed me. Now will you leave me alone? :crybaby: I m just going to have to ignore your further posts on this as you have just wore me to the bone. I assme this is how you get the boys to come down in price? Oh my God I mean the men, not boys I did not mean to imply, it was just a word that many of us use. No! no! the men, the guys. Oh fuck kill me! :crybaby:

I'm not a member of any of those other forums, so I really don't care about them.

I also have no problem in you applying the "boy" word to my sexual conquests - but I stress they are all legal.

"MEN"? ewwwww :pukeright: :pukeleft:

No thanks, I'd as soon fuck you. :sign5:

No thanks, I'd as soon fuck you. :sign5:

That sounds unnervingly like the start of a negotiation process !!! lol

[joe552]

I thought it was scottie showing his romantic side :love4: