Are the gay expat residents of Pattaya holding it back ?

So, simply for conversations sake - a question - "are the gay expat residents of Pattaya literally holding what's left of gay Pattaya together for us short timer holiday visitors OR are they perhaps unknowingly actually holding back any new or meaningful progress or development of Pattaya's gay scene into a more modern and different style of gay resort altogether by the bars "assuming" that is what "gay people" from around the world want and so the bars are not updating or changing their offering as they assume what they do offer is still what everyone still wants "??

Pattaya has evolved over many years to serve and service a certain type of customer, some or most of whom are now perhaps ageing in years with their spending habits and disposable income changing and perhaps declining of late, accordingly the bars find themselves perhaps stuck between a rock and a hard place in that they are still trying to service what IS left of their old customer base who "like things as they are" BUT on the other hand don't have any / many new, younger gay customers, who rightly or wrongly don't believe that gay Pattaya compares to the modern standards of other gay cities which may be more geared for their more stylish preferences and so the bars then find that they can't in turn make the / any required change to "up their game" to bring them into line with many other gay resorts around the world ( assuming they even care about that anyway of course) in terms of the quality of their gay bars, clubs, shopping and general scene offerings etc.

So the question is "are the gay expat residents of Pattaya literally holding what's left of gay Pattaya together for us short timer holiday visitors and we should be grateful to them for that OR perhaps are they unknowingly actually holding back any new or meaningful progress or development of Pattaya's gay scene on the world stage thus ensuring it's continued future ?

And by the way it goes without saying hopefully that this is NOT a dig at all or any expats - it's purely intended as a light hearted discussion just as you might have in the pub with a few mates over a few pints to pass the time ..........so please, no HOW VERY DARE YOU messages :-)

[Doug]

No.

[Neal]

While Pattaya has slowed somewhat because of the economic problems and the changes frm other nations coming here, I don't feel at the least that Pattaya has or will ever see its demise.

[catawampuscat]

No.

simple answer and mine too..

[MARK]

Sorry But I totally disagree with the last 2 post, have spent the last week in Sunee, Boys Town, and Jomtiem,

The GAY scene is running out of steam in Pattay and if you can not see that I am surprised, I will not say its because of any one reason but it is drying up.

and has been for the past 4 years. :dontknow:

[Jellybean]

Sorry IтАЩm not exactly sure what you are saying тАЬnoтАЭ to Doug.

Was it the first part of NIrish GuyтАЩs question, "Are the gay expat residents of Pattaya literally holding what's left of gay Pattaya together for us short timer holiday visitors?тАЭ

Or the second part of his question:

тАЬAre they perhaps unknowingly actually holding back any new or meaningful progress or development of Pattaya's gay scene into a more modern and different style of gay resort?тАЭ

Or was your тАЬnoтАЭ in reply to both parts of his question?

[Manforallseasons]

Without the expat community to keep the gay venues going in low season there would be no gay Pattaya.

Reasons for decline:

1) The decline coincides with the beginning of the world financial crisis.
2) The average age of both expats and gay visitors has increased and they are more inclined to look for a place with cheap drinks and socialize other than frequent go go bars.
3) There is a market for fem boys but the supply far exceeds the demand.
4) The Thai economy has improved greatly over the past 10 years lessening the need for boys to come to Pattaya.
5) The impact of Gayromeo cannot be understated.
6) The police "cleanup" of Sunee go go bars has not had a positive effect on their business. Pattaya was sleeze city that ini it's self was a draw which is almost gone.

[Neal]

Without the expat community to keep the gay venues going in low season there would be no gay Pattaya.

Reasons for decline:

1) The decline coincides with the beginning of the world financial crisis.
2) The average age of both expats and gay visitors has increased and they are more inclined to look for a place with cheap drinks and socialize other than frequent go go bars.
3) There is a market for fem boys but the supply far exceeds the demand.
4) The Thai economy has improved greatly over the past 10 years lessening the need for boys to come to Pattaya.
5) The impact of Gayromeo cannot be understated.
6) The police "cleanup" of Sunee go go bars has not had a positive effect on their business. Pattaya was sleeze city that ini it's self was a draw which is almost gone.

I have to argue with 3,4,5 & 6.

3 has absolutely no bearing on a gay Pattaya. That is just a personal preference of what type of boy turns someone on or off. There are plenty enough for both.
4. Boys still come to Pattaya for the GAY experience and to make money. Sure not as many but they still come and in volume.
5. Gay Romeo while it has something to do with gay venues has nothing to do with them needing to go to maajor towns and cities as a place to find many falang.
Two major very open cities are Pattaya and Bangkok.
6.The cleanup of Sunee Go Go was underage only. Has and had no effect with relations to regular bars and go go bars of those that worked inside the law.

[Oliver]

Costs, the recession,the rise of the Baht. Why look further? And who are coming to Pattaya in our place? citizens of countries less affected (or unaffected) by the recession.
How long ago was it that I was getting 73 bht to the pound? four years?

I'd be interested to know what is happening in the straight bar-scene. I recall the lady bars in Pattayaland Soi 2 being very popular; they even had their own baht-buses to bring in punters. Now all you see are the girls. Peeping in through the open doors I see much the same as I do in the gay bars; empty seats.

One further thought; I remember occasions in the 90s when it was hard to find a seat in BBB or Cockpit (now Copa). The larger bars often had up to one hundred gogo dancers. But in those days there were only a dozen gay businesses in the area. And Sunee didn't exist- nor the Jomtien Complex. I wonder whether the apparent drop in numbers is due to gay visitors being spread more thinly among a huge increase of venues.

[gaymandenmark]

Maybe some others feels like me.

When I first came to Thailand and Pattaya in the 90s, I felt like I was in the middle of a fairytale.

In the first couple of years the city was always a part of my travels to Thailand.

I still travel to Thailand twice a year, but now Pattaya is not a part of my list.
I am not into gogo bars, suddenly I found Pattaya quite boring, and you can meet handsome guys all over the country.
I also find that the whole country is a gay destination.

I am still travelling to Thailand, because I love the country and have many Thai friends around the country and friends in the surrounding countries.

It gives me much more pleasure to be a part of their lives, than to hang around with expacts and sextourist in a gogo or host bar in Pattaya.

Do I still party and have sex in Thailand? For sure - just like before.

To be honest I am still visiting Pattaya on occations, but it is on my way to Koh Samet or Koh Chang, and only for one or two nights, then I run away.

But as it is in any part of life, each to his own.

[loke]

Yes I agree , if you are loking for a gay lifestyle , no reason to choose Pattaya , anywhere is good in LOS.

But of course if you are not so fit anymore , and a bit older than the rest of us , you can only have sex by paying for boys, and that is easy in a gogo bar.

No stress to find a willing boy I guess. But where is the fun in that ?

Yes...Gaymandenmark...i think exatly like you....a lot of my friends in the uk think i must know many brits in Thailand but 99% of my friends there are Thai....When i first went to Thai..like a lot of people i did the tourist places like bkk....phuket...pattaya...but the last few trips i spend most of my time around Nong Bua Lampoo, Isaan
When I arrive at Suvanibumi airport i get a taxi straight away to Don Mueang airport..and fly by Nok air..very cheep to Udon Thani....stay there a couple of days....then my bf's family and friends turn up to drive us back to Ban non Saeng and we allways stay in Bungalow's near bf's village and travel about the area on his motercycle.
it feels like a 2nd home there ..its so peacfull and if you want to party ..there are Isaan concerts every week near the village..i never seen people get so mou any where in the world and we all dance like crazy in front of the stage..its so much fun
and most days we go round to friends houses in the village and its nice we all share the cost of the beer....wisky..so its not this farlang paying all the time.
Pattaya is great party town but for me Isaan is the real Thailand

[joe552]

I'm sure we're all aware of some amazing places in Thailand outside of Pattaya, but this thread is about Pattaya and what might be done to improve it. I only spend two weeks a year there and am happy with it as it is, so don't have anything constructive to offer, but the delights of Isaan are surely for a different thread?

Yes so some of it is in the wrong thred...but i'm not the first person on here to do that....i was just replying to what Gaymandenmark wrote

[gaymandenmark]

Yes, and I was discussing with myself, why Pattaya has in a way slowed down, like this thread turned into.
But let us just go to have a party in Pattaya, Bangkok, Luang Prabang, Chiang Mai, Isaan and anywhere :party

[ikarus]

So, simply for conversations sake - a question - "are the gay expat residents of Pattaya literally holding what's left of gay Pattaya together for us short timer holiday visitors OR are they perhaps unknowingly actually holding back any new or meaningful progress or development of Pattaya's gay scene into a more modern and different style of gay resort altogether by the bars "assuming" that is what "gay people" from around the world want and so the bars are not updating or changing their offering as they assume what they do offer is still what everyone still wants "??


I am sorry but it is kind of absurd question. If you want to open a new type of club in Pattaya, try to get an appropriate license and if you can, open it.
Who holds you back? The problem is that there are hordes of Russians who want to transform Pattaya in Russian homophobic "gorodok" Then there are some younger gay gentlemen who want gay clubs in Pattaya exactly as in their hometown etc etc. The hope is the Pattaya will stay Thai place which will continue to offer sabai Thai style. And if for whatever reason, one prefers their native Amsterdam of Dublin or whatever , just enjoy your own place and stop whining about Thailand.

All of this is moot. What are the older men in Pattaya doing to hold back anything? Nothing. Nada. Mai mee alai. We canтАЩt do anything. We donтАЩt want to do anything radical. Fine the way it is now, at least for us. Addressing the issue of тАЬWhat "gay people" from around the world wantтАЭ is not on our bucket list. If the young sexpats want to come to Pattaya and invest in new ventures, they are welcome to do so. It is not logical to suggest that the older gay expats are doing anything to prevent change.

There is an obvious polarization: The mostly younger sexpats v. the mostly older gay expats. Each group has different tastes when it comes to entertainment venues.

As ikarus says, тАЬIf you want to open a new type of club in Pattaya, try to get an appropriate license and if you can, open it. Who holds you back?тАЭ

But it is unlikely that the younger sexpats are going to invest in any new type of clubs. The money and the inclination to do so have always been the purview of the older expats. So the younger sexpats who want to re-invent the gay scene in Pattaya would have to enlist the backing of the older gay expats. Unlikely that that would ever happen.

I suspect that not many of us in the 50+ bracket are very keen on change. Of course we would like reasonable drink prices, more attractive boys, no mamasans, and all of the other items listed by SG in another thread. In general, speaking for myself, I am pretty much content with the way things are now and see no need for the establishment of new types of venues. тАЬNew and meaningful progressтАЭ ? No one is standing in the way. Try whatever you like if you can get the appropriate funding and licensing.

[Up2U]

Without the expat community to keep the gay venues going in low season there would be no gay Pattaya.

Reasons for decline:

1) The decline coincides with the beginning of the world financial crisis.
2) The average age of both expats and gay visitors has increased and they are more inclined to look for a place with cheap drinks and socialize other than frequent go go bars.
3) There is a market for fem boys but the supply far exceeds the demand.
4) The Thai economy has improved greatly over the past 10 years lessening the need for boys to come to Pattaya.
5) The impact of Gayromeo cannot be understated.
6) The police "cleanup" of Sunee go go bars has not had a positive effect on their business. Pattaya was sleeze city that ini it's self was a draw which is almost gone.

I have to argue with 3,4,5 & 6.

3 has absolutely no bearing on a gay Pattaya. That is just a personal preference of what type of boy turns someone on or off. There are plenty enough for both.
4. Boys still come to Pattaya for the GAY experience and to make money. Sure not as many but they still come and in volume.
5. Gay Romeo while it has something to do with gay venues has nothing to do with them needing to go to maajor towns and cities as a place to find many falang.
Two major very open cities are Pattaya and Bangkok.
6.The cleanup of Sunee Go Go was underage only. Has and had no effect with relations to regular bars and go go bars of those that worked inside the law.

I think Manforallseasons comments are generally right on the mark. 3.) Pattaya and many gay cities get a reputation whether deserved or not, but my word from the street is there is a definitely shortage of tops. 4.) Pattaya in the old days was about sex only; gay men/boys now have alternatives to working in the sex industry. 5.) The boys can find their farang without having to work in the sex industry or going to the beach. GR and other sites enables them to find their farang without having to work in the sex industry. I would hate to own a bar. Visited a Sunee bar with 2 friends recently and the boys all had their phones out and chatting on GR (?). I logged in to GR and could have chatted with boy on stage if I so wished. I've got a circle of about 10 close gay farang friends and only one continues to go to the bars and he doesn't own a smartphone or understand how to chat on GR. Do not underestimate the power of on-line gay social media.
6. The Sunee cleanup was about underagers AND drugs and certainly was not positive.

[zinzone]

I agree with Up2U. Compared to some years back there has been a significant change in the way to meet guys in Pattaya with the likes of Gay Romeo etc. The bar owners do not like it because they as middle men(pimps) lose their earnings from living off prostitution.

By the way the OP's suggestion that the gay expat residents are holding back Pattaya is quite ludicrous and is purely intended to inflame. Maybe he should just stay at home and stew in his misery.

[pennyboy]

Yes I agree , if you are loking for a gay lifestyle , no reason to choose Pattaya , anywhere is good in LOS.

But of course if you are not so fit anymore , and a bit older than the rest of us , you can only have sex by paying for boys, and that is easy in a gogo bar.

No stress to find a willing boy I guess. But where is the fun in that ?


it is certainly a lot of fun for me :bounce:

the OP's suggestion that the gay expat residents are holding back Pattaya is quite ludicrous ..... he should just stay at home and stew in his misery.

Inflame - absolutely not and in fact I went out of my way to express that point in my post. I would remind you that my OP followed a post where it was said that visitors should be grateful to expats for keeping gay Pattaya going and as it is - so my post - which is an equally valid point and question and is certainly not ludicrous, was ASKING not telling was this in fact the case and actually some of the replies which basicaly say "it's ok, its maybe not great and yes it may be declining but hey it'll do me my day and i dont like change at my time of life" validates the very question itself and that was my point.

Bars I feel are somewhat stuck between servicing their older (expat?) customers who like things as they are and would resent any change and would actively try to stifle that by not visiting the bar again (not all expats I accept) whereas due to this lack of change and modernisarion the other (younger) non expats, many of whom currently DON'T even bother to visit Pattaya as there's nothing there for them and so on do soend their money in other gay cities such as Barcelona, Amsterdam, Sitges where tye gay scene is thriving and vibrant and more impotently for bar owners perhaps - growing !

And as for staying at home and stewing in misery you obviously haven't read my songkran posts of late and you'll maybe notice that actually I didn't express a personal opinion in my post as to what I thought, I merely asked a question to have a light hearted discussion over a pint type conversation - i think i even said those very words. So I think the fact that I AM heading to Pattaya shows there's something I DO like about the place ( which is if course mainly the boys) but that's not to say Pattaya doesn't have its faults as well and as your view seems to be "come and like it as we like or don't come at all" then sorry, no, that's not how things work and its that very "if you don't like it go home attitude" which is EXACTLY the one to which I was perhaps referring in the first place.

So whilst the bar owners get it in the next all time I believe my question about are we ( or expats who apparently are the ones keeping things going in the holiday makers absence) equally or partly to blame for pattayas lack of change - and I think you're reply just about answers my question actually.

My final flagellation of this dead horse topic: Who is suffering from this lack of change in the gay bars of Pattaya (aside from the owners) ? Who is it that wants this тАЬmore modern and different style of gay resort altogetherтАЭ ? Apparently itтАЩs not the gay expats in Pattaya. So, it must be the visiting younger group that would like to see something more trendyтАж..for the benefit of themselves. You would be hard put to find any senior readers who are sympathetic with their plight.

Why should the gay expats be blamed for not moving with the times? Eventually, if the bar owners find themselves heading towards bankruptcy, I suppose they'll do something to attract a younger clientel. Till then, most of the gay expats will remain satisfied with the status quo.

Maybe it's a case of "familiarity breeds contempt" but I now find BT and Sunee all very bland and same-same.

Neal suggests that the "clean-up" of Sunee only involved underage, and somebody else added "drugs" - but that's not my impression at all - Sunee today is a pale shadow of 10/12 yrs ago when there were full on sex-shows, ping-pong, egg up the bum, darts etc in the likes of Super Queen and completely naked boys parading around and wanking off on top of the bar in the likes of Crazy Pub. The Sois were buzzing, there was a feeling of "anything goes" and it was damned exciting!! All that is long gone.

Nowadays, it's all very vanilla - and the police clean-up which helped to make it so, has not removed the underage problem - it has merely retreated "behind the curtain" and from open provision to private supply (let's not drag THAT story up again) - and the drugs problem is bigger than ever. The infiltration of the area by the Arabs and the proliferation of sheesha shops for example, makes Sunee feel like the gay area is 50% smaller than it ever was, that it no longer is "our" space at all

I don't think it would be fair to "blame" ex-pats for the gradual decline, probably all they are looking for is a quiet place to have a drink and chat with friends - so why would they be interested in paying high prices in some trendy modern bar. If it was myself, I doubt I'd be interested in that either. The trouble is that as both BT and Sunee decays, it makes them less attractive to the once/twice/thrice-a-year gay tourists like me who are equally as essential as the ex-pats in keeping them alive.

[neoncrusade]

If Sunee is being submerged by Arabic establishments and the gay clientele of BT are being terrorised by straight Russians, maybe the Jomtein gay area can finally come into it's own?

I haven't been in Pattaya for a couple of years so don't know if the gay Jomtein bars have died a death now (there's little mention of them on this board) so maybe they have?

[anonone]

Jomtien bars are not dead...just boring. Prohibition against gogo bars means Jomtien will not be the next thriving gay action place.

I agree with SG about the clean up of Sunee. I wasn't around so many years ago, but even recently the area has become much more tame. Not talking underage of course, but general sleeze. It has been turned from Vegas/Sin City into something more like Dollywood.

And these types of issues are not unique to Pattaya. The is often a tug of war in tourist areas between residents and visitors. I don't think expats are holding back Pattaya. I think the world is changing in many ways (technology, economy, acceptance of gays, travel options, etc.).

[Beachlover]

perhaps are they unknowingly actually holding back any new or meaningful progress or development of Pattaya's gay scene on the world stage thus ensuring it's continued future ?
I can see it's possible the older gay expats aren't CONTRIBUTING to evolving the scene but in what way would they be holding it back? What's the cause/effect relationship you're suggesting could be the case here?


6) The police "cleanup" of Sunee go go bars has not had a positive effect on their business. Pattaya was sleeze city that ini it's self was a draw which is almost gone.
Sleaze is one thing but stuff that is illegal, unethical and inmorale needs to be stopped. It shouldn't be allowed to continue for the sake of allowing sleaze to survive.


It gives me much more pleasure to be a part of their lives, than to hang around with expacts and sextourist in a gogo or host bar in Pattaya.
Yeah, that's something I don't understand. Why do people go to live in Thailand and just hang around gogo bars. Nothing in that scene is genuine and the country has so much more to offer.

If you're a sex tourist visiting for two weeks then that is one thing but if you're going to actually live in the country or make it a regular abode, there is so much more depth that you can experience and grow with the time you have there.

[a447]

I think the world is changing in many ways (technology, economy, acceptance of gays, travel options, etc.).

Yes, I agree. Young gays who can find sex partners without paying have little reason to travel all the way from Europe, for example, to Thailand - if it's only for sex. As others have pointed out already, there are lots of pleaces closer where they can go for free sex.

Some posters talk about the declining number of old gays who come to LOS as they can no longer get sex in their own countries. They seem to think that once the old guys drop off the perch, there will be no more oldies coming to LOS and Thailand, as we know it, will somehow disappear.

But those young guys will get old soon, and it is they who will replace us. They will never stop...cumming.

As long as guys over a certain age are considered unattractive for sex in their own countries, they will come to places such as Pattaya to continue their sex lives. There will always be a Pattaya IMHO. Numbers might be declining on account of financial pressures that some visitors are feeling, but just wait until the Chinese middle class hears about Pattaya! Those ageing Chinese guys want sex just as much as I do, I'm sure.

And I can't think of any place in the world where it is so easy to get laid. Or so cheap. Or has so many incredibly hot young guys available.

[ceejay]

They seem to think that once the old guys drop off the perch, there will be no more oldies coming to LOS. But those young guys will get old soon, and it is they who will replace us. They will never stop...cumming.
I disagree and I think this is one of the issues affecting the bars. I get the impression (not scientifically arrived at) that the customer base in Sunnee or Boyztown is aging and that it is not recruiting at the lower age range at anything like the rate it used to
In the past a significant section of the farang gay scene in Thailand was people who had been closeted all their lives (sometimes even marrying and having children to satisfy "the family") who, at around the age of 50 or so realised that time was running out, and came to Thailand to "be themselves". Many regular visitors were only out in Thailand and never came out in their home countries at all. In the case of most Western European countries, Australia/New Zealand and most of North America that market is largely gone. Someone reaching fifty now is far more likely to have been out for most of his life and to have no need to go to a foreign country to "be himself".
That's the challenge for the bars. A large section of their market is dying off, and isn't being fully replaced. If they want to stay in business then some of them, at least, will need to come up with a new offering.

[a447]

Someone reaching fifty now is far more likely to have been out for most of his life and to have no need to go to a foreign country to "be himself".

Ceejay, I don't see that as being the problem. Nowadays everyone seems to be coming out and "being yourself" is no longer an issue.

If those 50 year olds have partners, then perhaps they wouldn't bother coming to LOS for sex - they've got each other.

But lots of guys (like me) are not in a relationship but we still want sex. Lots of it!

But I know that in Japan you have reached your used by date at around 35. (Not sure about Australia). A bit older for farang, perhaps. Then your sex life dies completely. No-one want to know you.

Unless you come to LOS.

Pattaya needs to market itself to older gays. People I talk to in Japan and Oz all know Pattaya - but as a place to pick up GIRLS, not guys. If more older gay men knew what was on offer in Pattaya - that there was a scene specifically catering to them, and that that scene was not available anywhere else in the world- I reckon the place would be flooded.

[Jellybean]

Before I read your post ceejay my view was almost identical to a447тАЩs. Reading some of the other earlier comments I thought, hey you would think that no one was getting older anymore and therefore no new older guys coming along on тАШthe conveyor belt of lifeтАЩ and replacing the existing older generation.

I am not in Pattaya very often, so have had no first hand opportunity to reach any conclusion on whether the numbers are decreasing, increasing or staying roughly the same. But those with a long time experience of going to or living in Pattaya seem to be of the opinion that the numbers of gay visitors are decreasing and the existing expat gay population is either not being replaced or not being replaced at the same rate as in previous years.

But I did find ceejayтАЩs point an interesting one and one that I had not previously considered. But a447тАЩs reply swung me back to my current thinking.

Let me say how I got involved with Thailand.

Before my illness, around 10 years ago, I never considered Thailand or the Far East for that matter, as a holiday destination. I simply wasnтАЩt interested in Asian guys or interested in the Far East. If I thought about Thailand at all, it was as a place for socially inept straight guys to find a young Thai wife because they were incapable of finding one back home in the UK. I had no knowledge of the male go-go bar scene and male prostitution.

One unexpected consequence of my illness was that I became very sensitive to cold weather. I wanted a winter home, but could not afford to buy a property in Spain, my first choice, and retain a property in the UK. A friend suggested Thailand where he said the property prices were amazingly cheap; well they were 8-9 years ago when the GBP/THB exchange rates were so much better for Brits. So after visiting Thailand twice I decided to buy a property here.

On my first visit I was introduced to the go-go bars in тАШSoi TwilightтАЩ. It was a horrible first time experience, my first time with a prostitute and the first time with a Thai guy. I didnтАЩt enjoy the experience. I wasnтАЩt really attracted to Thai guys and having to use the services of a prostitute I found so degrading. But my choices were now limited, I either abstained from sex altogether or I used a prostitute. Once I accepted that my life had changed forever, there was no going back, then things became a lot easier for me to accept.

It was some years later before I even visited Pattaya. I think I even visited Phuket and Chiang Mai before Pattaya!

But the main initial attraction of living in Thailand was, believe it or not, the weather, followed by cheap property and thirdly the availability of Thai money boys. And nine years on that, more or less, remains the case, although in recent years I tend to use the Internet as a means of meeting boys more than the bars. And much to my delight I have even been able to have a loving relationship with some Thai guys, something I thought would have been impossible when I first set out on this unexpected journey.

I am here only for the winter months, preferring my own country for the spring, summer and autumn, but mainiy because my medical treatment is still ongoing.

I would imagine that my reason for being here is a minority, if not a unique one, of course I donтАЩt know why the great majority of members come here, is it all about the Thai boys? Well naturally, I can't say for sure.

The point I am trying to make, admittedly rather badly, is that I think the vast majority of gay men in the UK (and perhaps worldwide?) are either not interested in Asian guys, otherwise they would be here in greater numbers, or they are unaware of the availability of young Thai men and the ready and affordable availability of male prostitutes, just as I was.

So how do you bring this knowledge to the attention of older guys in the west? Well the usual way is through an advertising campaign.

Fifty?
Not getting any?
Do you think life is over?
Have you considered Thailand?
Begin life anew in the Land of Smiles,
where the boys are here waiting to entertain you

Okay, so itтАЩs a bit corny, but itтАЩs only meant as an example.

But why not give it a try? I see that Neal is now advertising in QX magazine in the UK, perhaps a campaign in such magazines might bear fruit. What is there to lose? Oh, just thought of one downside, more customers might mean higher prices and less availability тАУ supply and demand and all that! Maybe, on second thoughts, better leave well alone! : )

I allways fancied south east Asian guys since i was a teenager....and allways interested in Thai culture since i was a kid
so going to Thai was just part of life's journey for me weather its fate....or my belief in Budda....
i still get a lot of guys interested in me in England....but since i met my Thai bf 2 years ago....sex with guys in the west does'nt appeal to me..everybody's got their own personel story about why they came to places like Pattaya and Thailand in general....thats just my story

[Beachlover]

If those 50 year olds have partners, then perhaps they wouldn't bother coming to LOS for sex - they've got each other.

But lots of guys (like me) are not in a relationship but we still want sex. Lots of it!

But I know that in Japan you have reached your used by date at around 35. (Not sure about Australia). A bit older for farang, perhaps. Then your sex life dies completely. No-one want to know you.
1. I have a theory that as same sex relationships and same sex partnerships become more and more mainstream and accepted by society, more and more gay people will pick up a life partner and stay with them as they get older, as is most common among straight people. Hence, as this generation grows older, you're not going to have as many older gays not in a relationship and running around looking for sex. Just a theory.

2. Not disputing your own experience but I observe plenty of older guys above 35, 40 an even 50 who remain single with active sex lives. Some date. Others just hook up. Some with guys their own age. Some with guys who are 20 years younger (and not for any financial advantage). So don't assume that any gay guy still in his 50s is leading a sexless life unless he goes to Pattaya.

[Neal]

Beachie you are way out on that one. I nor you have a doctorate in all this but I would assume that as the gay life is more and more accepted more people will continue to lead this life style. The percentage that wants to be single will continue that way and the percentage that wants to have a partner will with the exception to being out in the open. I believe that when the younger get older many of the same percentages will be there.

Finally don't get started ith this Pattaya crap again. You and I both know it happens all over the world and yes maybe a bit more in Pattaya and other sexually liberated cities and towns in the world but stop making all your posts and referring to Pattaya. We know you have a compulsive disorder about Pattaya.

[a447]

Beachlover, the point I was making is that gay culture puts a lot more emphasis on youth than hetero culture. Gay guys I know all want sex with younger (as opposed to young) guys. I do not know any guys who say they'd like to sleep with an older guy. That's not to say they don't exist, but it is a numbers game. I mean, which do you think is more common - old guys wanting sex with younger guys, or young guys wanting sex with old guys?

It's got nothing to do with gay relationships becoming mainstream. Gay men put more emphasis on looks - hence, the popularity of young, handsome guys with nice toned bodies. And of course, old guys in a relationship will have sex together. But some of us are not interested in a relationship.

Also, I'm with bluechris1 on this. I have no interest in having sex with Caucasian men. I'm Asian all the way.

[loke]

So Thai boys are more wiling to have sex with older guys over 50 then caucasian boys ? ANd thats why alot of westerners choose Thailand?

Or is it only a prostitution thing that happens all over the world ?