Was This a Falang Shakedown?

[Jellybean]

I hope Neal will bear with me on the following post which, I believe, is connected, although somewhat loosely to the subject of тАЬdisrespectтАЭ.

Payment to charities in the United Kingdom is voluntary as I dare say it is in most members countries. When someone stops me in the street and invites me to contribute to a charity, if it is one I am familiar with and support, then IтАЩll gladly put ┬г1.00 or ┬г2.00 (the equivalent of 47 or 94 Baht) in the collecting tin. These fundraisers have recently been given the unofficial name of тАШchuggersтАЩ in the UK.

Wikipedia says the following on this subject:

тАЬPaid street fundraisers are sometimes known as chuggers because usually fundraising is viewed as aggressive or invasive (a portmanteau of "charity" and "mugger"). It became popular as a way of referring to street fundraisers after several articles appeared in British newspapers which pointed out the negative image of the people doing the job.тАЭ

Today a truck pulled up outside my house, I thought it was one of the builders, whom I was expecting. I went to the front gate to open it and a muscular Thai man with a clip board and some papers spoke to me in perfect English. The first thing I noticed was some military symbols on his white polo shirt including an image of a Beretta with the word тАЬBerettaтАЭ underneath . . . thatтАЩs how I knew the make of the gun, I am no expert on guns! : )

I wanted to speak to him through the gate, but he insisted in coming in to my house after he said he was from the Soldier, Police and Civil Association (SPCA) and showed me his official looking ID. IтАЩve had visits from this organisation in the past when three officers turned up on one occasion. I knew immediately that he was there to collect a donation and wouldnтАЩt take no for an answer.

Once inside he showed me a photograph of His Majesty the King followed by other photographs showing the work of the SPCA. I felt in no doubt that I was speaking to someone in authority, someone used to giving orders. He pointed to a list of items that the SPCA wanted to buy and said he would welcome 4,000 Baht. Hmm . . . well yes, IтАЩm sure he would. : )

I felt most reluctant to be strong armed in this way, but hey, this being Thailand and the person sitting opposite me was from the military/police I judged it would be considered disrespectful if I did not pay a minimum of at least 1,000 Baht. Happily the chugger, sorry, officer, seemed content with my тАШdonationтАЩ and did not press me for a higher amount. He then handed me a receipt after entering my name on the receipt and on the counter-foil.

After the officer had gone I was left speculating if any fa-r├бng visited by the SPCA would dare to refuse to make a contribution. I certainly wouldnтАЩt want to risk finding out the consequences of refusing and did my respectful duty and paid my own form of tam-bun (merit)! : )

Is this style of shakedown common? What would have happened had you not opened the door but simply ignored him? As he spoke English well, does that suggest you were targeted and he knew a Falang lived there? As I've been mugged in my own home I never open the door to strangers and all my friends know to call ahead if they expect me to let them in.

[Jellybean]

Kommentariat my front door was open, always is during the day, I close it around 5.30pm before the dreaded jing-j├▓k (geckos) wake up and think about paying me an unwelcome visit! : )

I saw the truck pull up through the window and walked to my front door, armed with a key fob that releases the magnetic lock on the car port gates, and walked across the car port towards the gate. As I said in my previous post, we spoke through the gates and then he kind of insisted in coming into the house. I then released the magnetic lock and slid the gate open. IтАЩm afraid I did not even consider refusing him entry and am reasonably confident that I would not do so in any future visit.

As to your question, I have no information to enable me to give you a factual answer, but my opinion, and I stress it is only an opinion, is that he was solely targeting fa-r├бng owned homes or estates. In our small soi there are 11 fa-r├бng owners, although some have Thai partners. Nearly all of the houses in surrounding estates are, I believe, owned by foreigners, although, of course, I cannot say for sure. And qualify my answer accordingly.

I would add one small amendment to my post, the officer from SPCA filled out the receipt and counter-foil then asked me to enter my name on both parts of the receipt.


Neal I leave it to your discretion to decide whether my post and the replies are proper to this thread. : )

[Neal]

While a tad different, a falang approached me at the bar one night. He had everything to show that he was doing a map of the gay areas and bars. His sample copy was all nicely printed etc and he had business cards etc. I agreed to take out a small ad for the bar and he told me when it would be coming out.

Normally if it is a new publication I never pay up front. Before I knew it he whipped out a contract, filled it all in nice and proper and then a receipt book and walked away with the 3,000 baht for the ad. Every few weeks I saw him and every few weeks he showed me he had other ads and there was a small delay. Then one day he approched me and said his boss was away for whatever holiday it was and he needed some money for something and asked to borrow 10,000. Well of course that's when I realized the 3,000 was gone and told him that if I ever saw him in BT again, my doormen would need to have a chat with him. :sign5:

[latintopxxx]

jellybean....please...please...grow a spine...or at least borrow one.....for sure they will be back..you are such an easy target...i would never lwt anyone into my home against my will...

[Neal]

Not to mention that you wrote down your name and address so that they have a record of where to return for more.

[kittyboy]

jellybean....please...please...grow a spine...or at least borrow one.....for sure they will be back..you are such an easy target...i would never lwt anyone into my home against my will...

Easy to say but most people defer to symbols of authority. I suspect the op has a spine but was caught up by circumstances and most people would react in the same way. Latinpxxx grow some understanding of human nature... Or you can borrow mine. PM and I will be happy to lend you my insights as needed.

[adman5000]

Jellybean- Did you ask any of your neighbors if they were similarly approached? I would then ask a THAI neighbor for their opinion as they normally can easily tell.

I have sometimes been approached on the beach by Thais with official looking badges and presentation binders looking for donations. I politely tell them in Thai that I do not donate because I am already involved in charitable work in Thailand. It also helped me once when pulled over in a taxi and the BIB wanted some Farang baht. I showed a government letter and was quickly waved on. The taxi driver also got a laugh out of it.

If the guy was muscular, did you ask him if you could get a massage for your donation or get his number? :glasses7:

[anonone]

What a story. Always something interesting going on in Thailand.

By the way, the "beretta" polo shirts are all over the markets for sale. Certainly does not denote any type of authority. It is a fashion thing.

Good luck with any future visit. If at all possible, I would just try and not be home if they come calling again.

[francois]

I have seen a similar squeeze of gay bar owners in Pattaya where the Immigration Police, in Battle Dress Uniform, solicited contributions for some sort of event. Very intimidating.

[Jellybean]

Oh latintopxxx I thought your comments were a bit harsh, but I am sure they were well intended. I do understand where you are coming from as a person, who, I am guessing, probably does not have any experience of dealing with officialdom in Thailand. I would never have allowed a cold caller into my home in the UK and my front door in the UK is never left open.

How often have I been told, тАЬThis is Thailand! Things are done differently here.тАЭ For example:

> Police officers stopping you on the road and asking for money when you consider no traffic offence has been committed.

> Being asked to pay House and Land Tax out of the blue in Bangkok and Hua Hin without any formal personal assessment. And when my neighbours and I got together to seek legal advice being told going to court would just be a waste of money. It simply would not happen in the UK.

> Being advised to give immigration officers small amounts of money to smooth the path of visa applications and finding I get a better reception thereafter.

> Going to court on a class action against our developer and the case dragging on for years and years, dealing with incompetent lawyers and having to accept an unsatisfactory outcome because you realise that you are just throwing good money after bad.

> Being told, just the other day by my Thai car agent, as I renewed my road tax and insurance, that I should be really careful when driving and that if I should have an accident with a Thai person, even if I was in the right, the authorities were likely to accept the Thai personтАЩs view of events. I know a straight couple in Hua Hin who experienced such an event and had to pay out a large sum of money in just those circumstances.

> IтАЩve written extensively about my problems with builders. But where do you draw the line? There was a case in Hua Hin of a fa-r├бng refusing to settle his bill because of shoddy, sub-standard work. The poor man was beaten to a pulp and has ended up in a vegetative state. So how far do I go in pressing my builders to correct inadequate work with this knowledge lurking at the back of my mind?

> A good friend of mine was murdered in Hua Hin shortly after drawing up a Will, which I strongly advised him not to do. His killer has never been found. And when I corresponded with my friendтАЩs brother he told me he believed that the police were not unduly concerned and their enquiries, such as they were, got precisely nowhere.

Thailand has its own ways of doing things and no amount of complaining on my part is going to change anything. But living in a foreign country is not quite the same as spending a few weeks as a visitor where, unless you are really unlucky, you are unlikely to come into contact with officialdom.

So bearing all of the above in mind, against my better judgment, I admitted the caller, who turnd up in truck with a offical looking logo, to my house, listened to his story about the police and armyтАЩs activities against terrorists on the Malaysian border, looked at the photographs in the SPCA magazine of the security forces who required artificial limbs and wheelchairs. And looked at his price list showing the cost of all the medical treatment and decided to give him 1,000 Baht.

Thanks adman5000 for your advice. I did look up the SPCA on the Internet last night and the comments on various forums seem to be divided on whether the SPCA is genuine or a scam. There is a company address and telephone number on Thailand GreenPages.

I never thought to ask him for a massage, he wasnтАЩt my type at all, IтАЩm no fan of Tawan Bar types. But hey, a massage, even without a тАШhappy endingтАЩ, might have justified the 1,000 Baht тАШdonationтАЩ! : )

I also emailed my neighbours this morning and asked how they dealt with callers from the SPCA and have already received one reply from a neighbour who is here permanently. He said, тАЬI think it is a scam [Jellybean]. They know me already and never come to my house anymore. You can politely say "I gave last month etc." and don't let them in. More aggressive approach is to start taking pictures of their ID's, license plates... That usually helps to make them disappear quickly. They become active over the high season and target houses with farangs.тАЭ

Why my neighbour never thought to pass on this information earlier I donтАЩt know . . . forewarned is forearmed as they say. Now I and everyone else is aware of the problem and the next time someone calls I can tell him politely that IтАЩve already made a contribution and will not be making a further payment.

Well I must be getting soft in my old age, so maybe, on reflection, I really do need to go and grow a backbone. IтАЩll add that to my list of things to do! : )

The above list represents a set of reasons, each by itself never mind collectively, why I would never, ever consider living in Thailand in a way that I couldn't simply walk away at any time and never go back. Buying property and a vehicle just creates ties that make leaving harder. The Reader's Digest version - "Never try to be a local"

A friend of mine is in the process of converting all his assets to cash and transferring the cash to a Thai bank account. He already has a bank account there with a permanent deposit of a million baht simply to qualify for renewal of his annual retirement visa. I think he's out of his mind.

[cottmann]

Was it a falang shakedown? Of course it was.

There used to be a similar collecting scheme on Sukhumwit Road in Bangkok, although that time it was collecting for the National Scout Association of Thailand. Collectors also had official folders, pictures of HM (Chief Scout of Thailand), and so on. None of the collectors was of boy scout age, however. They even gave "official" receipts if one gave name and address.

They tended to disappear quickly if asked if HM approved of their activities, however.

Needless to say, the NSOT saw none of the money.

[adman5000]

Thanks for the update Jellybean. I always enjoy your stories and writing style.

I agree with kommentariat's comments. I always ask myself if I could ignore the officialdom if I lived in Thailand. I think it would really annoy me after a while. I also plan to not have too strong of roots there so I could easily pack up and leave. It helps me understand how the Thai can "mai pen rai" just so much until the rubber band breaks and they go crazy explode over something. It is why I never get in the middle of a disagreement in Thailand. Backbone is admirable unless it gets you killed for something insignificant.

[latintopxxx]

guess I can see both viewpoints...guess 1000bht is a small price to pay if they only come around once a year...still a big risk letting someone into your home when you'r alone...easy for me to talk as I dont live there....must say I've never had an issue with this type of thing during my frequent visits..

[Jellybean]

I would never, ever consider living in Thailand in a way that I couldn't simply walk away at any time and never go back. Buying property and a vehicle just creates ties that make leaving harder. The Reader's Digest version - "Never try to be a local"

A friend of mine is in the process of converting all his assets to cash and transferring the cash to a Thai bank account. He already has a bank account there with a permanent deposit of a million baht simply to qualify for renewal of his annual retirement visa. I think he's out of his mind.

Kommentariat I see that you are a new member, but IтАЩm not sure how long youтАЩve been reading the forum as a guest, but IтАЩve said on several occasions that I now deeply regret buying a house, off-plan actually, 8 years ago. The exchange rate was very good at that time and the world economic crash hadnтАЩt happened yet. IтАЩve repeatedly said that, if asked, I would advise members thinking about moving to Thailand to rent rather than buy. I am now trying to sell my house and may write about this in more detail because I have again come up against the Thai legal and tax system which IтАЩve found totally unfathomable.

I also think you are right to be concerned for your friend. In previous years I have also retained 800,000+ Baht in my Thai bank account. But this year I chose the alternative route of obtaining a letter from my embassy confirming I have sufficient income to support myself whilst in Thailand. I shall now reduce the amount of money I hold in my Thai bank account. I have written about this in detail under my other topic, тАЬNow back in ThailandтАЭ and you may wish to draw this to the attention of your friend.


I agree with kommentariat's comments. I always ask myself if I could ignore the officialdom if I lived in Thailand. I think it would really annoy me after a while. I also plan to not have too strong of roots there so I could easily pack up and leave. It helps me understand how the Thai can "mai pen rai" just so much until the rubber band breaks and they go crazy explode over something. It is why I never get in the middle of a disagreement in Thailand. Backbone is admirable unless it gets you killed for something insignificant.

adman5000 I am guessing that it would be so much easier to avoid officialdom in Thailand if you rent a property. No need for accountants and lawyers, no worries about Business or House and Land Tax. No involvement with dodgy developers and builders, no worries about maintenance issues. No concerns about capital taxes on selling, even when there is no capital gain . . . yes, itтАЩs true, IтАЩll write more about this later!

Now regarding the visit from the gentleman from the SPCA, I heard from some of my other neighbours yesterday and most paid in the region of 1,000 to 2,000 Baht and one, a Russian neighbour, paid 10,000 Baht!!!

I also spoke with the Thai wife of my Finnish neighbour yesterday. She told me her husband had made a contribution in previous years until she found out about it and told him not to make any further payments. She explained, just as I did in my original post, that payments to charities are voluntary and just like in the UK I am free to say тАШnoтАЩ with no adverse consequences.

The part that concerned me the most was when the first thing he did was draw my attention to the photograph of His Majesty the King, which he then followed up by saying he was associated with the Thai military and police. A part of me was concerned that could I be accused of disrespect or worse the crime of L├иse majest├й if I refused him. Hua Hin is a royal town with two Royal Residencies, an army base and therefore a military presence. So I mentioned this to my Thai neighbour as the reason why I had decided to pay 1,000 Baht. She dismissed my concerns and said not to worry, just turn them away next time and there would be no serious consequences.

It reminded me of the time, perhaps 5 or 6 years ago when I was sitting in a coffee shop in the Big C shopping mall in Petchaburri with a female friend and either an army sergeant or a police sergeant approached us (sorry canтАЩt tell the difference in the uniform). Almost the first thing he asked us was, тАЬWhat do you think of my king?тАЭ

It was a very odd thing to ask and given he was in uniform it felt quite intimidating. Coincidentally we both had recently read an article in one of the local Hua Hin freebies on the subject of L├иse majest├й and the unexpected dangers for foreigners who unwittingly fell foul of this law, so we were both quite effusive in reply! We both wondered where he was going with the question. He seemed very happy with our reply then asked if he could take a photograph of us with his two children! Talk about surreal! Of course we readily agreed after breathing a sigh of relief!

As I said in another topic, strange things happen to me in Thailand!


guess I can see both viewpoints...guess 1000bht is a small price to pay if they only come around once a year...still a big risk letting someone into your home when you'r alone...easy for me to talk as I dont live there....must say I've never had an issue with this type of thing during my frequent visits..

Crikey latintopxxx your reply really surprised me. Glad you were able to see it from my point of view. But one positive result of raising this subject on the forum, although I originally posted it under the heading of тАШdisrespectтАЩ, has meant that my neighbours and I wonтАЩt be making any further payments to the SPCA or letting their officials into our homes again!