Visa Extension

Now you all know the saga about my BF of 2yrs, so I won't go into it.

Suffice to say he is currently in BKK, alone, in a hotel, on a 21 day tourist Visa (he is Vietnamese) and has to be out by the 25th November.

My question is - is it possible to extend the Visa and if so, how? Bear in mind he has no Thai but some English.
Or, failing that, can he do a Visa run - and if so, how.
Failing that - could he enrol at an English Language school in BKK and get a Student Visa to remain in Thailand - if so, any ideas?

The alternative is for him to go to yet another Country (it's all about avoiding the draft and he's been refused entry to the UK)

Look forward to your learned responses.

:hello2:

[christianpfc]

he is currently in BKK, alone, in a hotel

We are a bit naive, aren't we? (Just kidding.)

I assume visa regulations for Vietnamese are different then for Europeans or North-Americans.

Yes, apparently Vietnamese get 21 (or is it 25?) days instead of "our" standard 30 days. I once had a discussion with a Cambodian boy who works the door in a BT gogo who told me he gets only 2 weeks.

[Chris2324]

try pro language school, call them i have some friends that stay here in student visa

http://www.prolanguage.co.th
bkk office phone number 02-250-0072

wish you all the best

[Brad the Impala]

Why did the bf come to BKK to be alone in a hotel?

After the UK Visa was refused he had to get out of Vietnam almost immediately to avoid being drafted into the military for 2 years, so (at my suggestion since it is a quick and easy destination, and one that I know more about than any of the alternatives) he went to BKK to give us a breathing space to take stock of the situation.

That breathing space is running out though - hence I'm looking for options.

[2lz2p]

The Immigration Regulations for long stay extensions will require he have entered Thailand on a Non-Immigrant Visa - if he enrolls with a language school, they should be able to provide the necessary documents to get a Non-Imm "ED" Visa - but, it is my understanding he will need to go to another country to get the visa from a Thai Embassy or Consulate. Upon returning to Thailand, he should get a 90 day permission to stay stamp. The school would then provide the paperwork to apply for an extension of stay at Thai Immigration. It is my understanding that the extensions for attending language schools are 90 days at a time and after a period of time, the Immigration Officer may require demonstration of gaining some proficiency in speaking Thai.

[Sooty]

My question is - is it possible to extend the Visa and if so, how? Bear in mind he has no Thai but some English.
Or, failing that, can he do a Visa run - and if so, how.
Failing that - could he enrol at an English Language school in BKK and get a Student Visa to remain in Thailand - if so, any ideas?
The alternative is for him to go to yet another Country (it's all about avoiding the draft and he's been refused entry to the UK)I think you're screwed (my favourite activity - being screwed - but that's by the way):
* He might get an extension if he goes to an Immigration office but they only ever grant an extension that's 50% of the original, so not a long term solution.
* He could do a "visa run" but the same applies and it's an expensive option assuming it works - and it may not. And it's only for a short time again.
* Unlike more enlightened countries he can't change his visa status once in Thailand on one type of visa so the "becoming a student" route (or root??) is out too.
* Another country - well Singapore was full of Vietnamese money boys when I was there last month, all over Gay Romeo, so I assume they have no problems with the visa on arrival but I think that's only 14 days. Perhaps he could apply for a "real" Thai visa while he is there - but he may not get it

So your boyfriend's a draft dodger SG?

[pong]

hello/zhao from Saigon/VN-aka as HCMC here then.
The very best forum for these Qs is thaivisa.com-here you wont find many really informed sources.
As far as I know-not myself being an expert either, ASEAN has the same rights as their own country grants Thai people.=thats why those 21 days (also applies to Phillippine). The easiest way to get a new stint is to go to Cambodia and return-how many times he can do that, I cannot say-after a while Thai immigr will start to ask nasty Questions. i know quite a few Lao and Khmer who do that regularly-but they return to their home country then. An extension is a.maybe not even possible-or if so, only for 7 days at a cost of 1900THB-a return to border is cheaper (by train less as 100 THB-he can likely even get the free ticket for Thai) or by bus about 4/500 THB. Just as Khmer into VN he has free entry into Camb.

[kittyboy]

After the UK Visa was refused he had to get out of Vietnam almost immediately to avoid being drafted into the military for 2 years, so he went to BKK to give us a breathing space to take stock of the situation.

That breathing space is running out though - hence I'm looking for options.

This is not a wind up...How bad are the conditions for the Vietnamese Army conscripts? or does he fear that as a gay he will face discrimination? Just curious...not my business really. Good luck in any case.

It is probably a stretch but I think ASEAN members can work and live in Macau relatively easily. But your easiest option is as you suggested...getting him enrolled in a language course as a student.

[cdnmatt]

In Thailand, it costs about 30,000 baht to buy your way out of conscription. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would imagine it's even cheaper in Vietnam.

[Yes, Matt but what we need to know is HOW :sign5:]

...So your boyfriend's a draft dodger SG?

Yes Sooty - and let me tell you this, if there had been compulsory Military service (or a War involving conscription) in the UK when I was of age I'd have been a "draft dodger" too - to the extent that, if my plans to turn up in drag had failed, I'd have been quite prepared to go to jail my sweet. So, I am quite at ease with his position on the matter - it's only the effects of it that cause some difficulty.

Just for clarification - he is not a "money boy" - not that it would bother me in the slightest to admit if he was.
I have had 2 or 3 "relationships" with money boys which lasted for months or years and I'm not ashamed or regretful of any of that, they were great while they lasted.

As ever, thanks to everybody who has responded.

:hello2:

[Neal]

Sooty and some others may think the same, there are many boys that for one reason or the other don't want to fight or go into the army and buy their way out. It could be that they are truly afraid of being sent south to where they are fighting the muslims all the time and getting killed all the time or they could be gay and effeminate and fear the rest of the recruits, or they rally do not enjoy the thought of killing someone else. I have heard of many stories of boys either that work in bars or elsewhere or have parents that borrow or save to keep their children safe at home.

Is it fairs for some and not others? I don't know but that is their decision and frankly I am in argreement with SG and if I were the age, especially being frim USA and growing up in the Vietnam era.

[Sooty]

I think you've read more into my Singapore comments than I intended. I was just saying that since Singapore is full of Vietnamese money boys it must be easy for ANY Vietnamese ...

As for draft dodging, I might have known that the children of the Sixties would all be running about making flower power comments.

I see you're now a Moderator. I thought there was a rule about lese majeste posts so I'm surprised you haven't alerted Dumbo about the latest manifestation.

Sooty, you and I have always go on reasonably well I think - be assured I didn't read anything more into your comments, I'm just stating my position on these matters - sorry if it came across more robustly than you liked.

I have to say though that talk of (for example) 'draft dodging' or 'cowardice' or 'yellow-bellied rattlesnakes'from anybody on here comes across as nothing more than macho posturing - and when it's sissy marys doing the macho posturing it's all a bit ridiculous dear.

As for the "lese majeste"issue - at this time I don't know to which post you're referring, why don't you PM me with your concerns or report the post you are objecting to.

What I DO know is that name-calling based on a person's appearance is not an attractive trait and is the mark of the playground bully - particularly poor coming from a representative of a racial minority who are themselves quite rightly sensitive about certain words.

[newalaan]

I have heard of many stories of boys either that work in bars or elsewhere or have parents that borrow or save to keep their children safe at home.
It is true that many, many parents or families 'borrow' the Bt30,000 to keep their son out of the army but I doubt it has very much to do with safety, mostly i would guess it is a pragmatic decision based on arithmetic. If the son is a good provider, lets say working in a factory at Bt10,000 per month that is Bt240,000 over 2 years, a more successful boy it could be over Bt350,000, the army pay between Bt1500 and about Bt3000 per month (that may have changed since my good friend lost the lottery and did his time a few years ago) Bt72,000 over 2 years, even borrowing the Bt30k it still makes sense, for some families the loss of a main earner can be a disaster. As far as I am aware the 2-year recruits would never be sent to zones where there is combat, that would be for the 'regular army', the 2-year recruits after 6 months square-basing tend to get fairly easy assignments. This info is just based on the guys i have known who have told me about their time in the army.


Now you all know the saga about my BF of 2yrs, so I won't go into it.
No! we don't all know the 'saga'.....don't take it the wrong way....but isn't it rather pompous to assume that 'we all' would know anything about your personal saga's. Sorry I am unable to offer any info regarding visas, but nevertheless I do hope this non-money boy manages to find a solution to his predicament. However one can only wonder why a 'plan B' was not investigated before he set off, don't Vietnamise boys know in advance if they have a chance of being called up? Is it that sudden? While i know a little about the callup in Thailand, I dont know the situation in Vietnam.


What I DO know is that name-calling based on people's appearance is not an attractive trait and is the mark of the playground bully
So true, yet hilarious......given that 'some' on this forum have made a career out of name-calling, they either have poor memories or are just incredibly brass-necked to even think of accusing others of being playground bullies.

Thank you for your interest, newalaan.

I have discussed the Visa issues affecting my BF on many occasions - that is why I assumed most (if not all) might be aware of them.
Since you only take notice of anything I post when you can find an angle to rubbish it, no wonder you may have missed this.

Also, you are correct in saying that there is nothing sudden about his general situation - he has been moving from country to country for most of the 2 years I have known him - 6 months here, 3 months there, study here, study there. We had hoped the UK Visa would solve the entire problem, but that was not to be.
We decided he would return to Vietnam to apply for the UK Visa (although it's done through BKK) because it's obviously easier for him to communicate - and meantime he would open a small cafe in the hope that a) it would help the Visa process and b) being a "business owner" might mitigate against the military service. He was allowed a certain period of time to sort all this out (about 90 days) - however, the Visa application failed (my MP is taking it up but there's no chance of a reversal) and being in business with the cafe was not sufficient reason to see him exempted. It all culminated in the Police coming looking for him, at which point he had to get out fast.

I don't think I have ever criticised anybody solely on their appearance, but I guess I may have done - probably jokingly more than anything else. If that's the case it's something I shouldn't have done and something that I will not do henceforth.

Now, if you have anything to add that might be helpful on this topic, I await it with bated breath.
I would rather it did not just become a slag-fest because I asked for advice, not nit-picking and abuse.

[christianpfc]

I have fond memories of my time in the German army (10 months in 2000 and 2001, at that time we still had compulsory mililtary service). Three meals per day (warm lunch every day!), you don't have to buy the food before eating and you don't have to clean the crookery and cutlery after eating, sport during working hours, no wondering "what do I wear today?" and many other benefits. Therefore I look down on anyone who tried to evade military service in Germany as a coward, shirker, wimp.

But conditions in Vietnam might be completely different.

A further thought: A friend from Singapore told me that military service in Singapore is not easy, and people even leave Singapore to evade military service, but they can never return to Singapore, the will be jailed if they do. I don't know how the situation is in Vietnam, but I assume your boyfriend will have problems if he returns.

My advice would be to send him back to do his military service in Vietnam. Others have to do it and survive, it can't be that bad, if it doesn't kill him, it will make him stronger. It's a decision between coming back as a soldier after the service or being a fugitive the rest of his life.

I can only go by what he tells me - which is that apparently he can return once he is 25 with no problems, but that's long way off

Christian perhaps some people - especially gay people - don't WANT to come back as a solider or ever to BE a solider and all that that stands for in the first place.

If so that in my opinion at least doesn't make them a wimp or a coward or any of the other things you suggested towards people who don't share your particular belief system. To me it just means that they have a mind of their own and are individuals who chose not to allow themselves to be deconstructed and dehumanised throughout their training to ultimately be turned into yet another clone solider who's main function is to be trained to kill other human beings on behalf of their particular State.

So, if they choose not to go through that process thats up to them and it certainly doesn't make them a wimp and in fact it might well just make them a braver man than some of those who do attend when coming to that decision rather than just allowing themselves to be yet another sheep like those accede to their governments demands and are forced to attend state indoctrination simply because they are ordered too.

So good luck to him for being a unique individual as far as I'm concerned and I hope he continues to live as HE choses and not how society or some Government department tells him he MUST.

NIrish's comment aligns exactly with my thinking - if a person wants to undertake military service then fair enough.

If they don't want to undertake this, then that should be fine too.

[Sooty]

Hmmm, whether giving someone a nickname is a sign of affection or bullying is open to question; I had expected better of you. Since I am not authorized to send PMs I cannot comply with your request.

[Neal]

What do you mean you are not authorized to send PMs?! Everyone can send PMs!
I didn't do this but went into programming to see if I could fix it. Send me a PM or post to see if it was fixed. If not, I will have to give it to Stan to fix and he may not see this as it is Sunday.

[Thai Dyed]

Therefore I look down on anyone who tried to evade military service in Germany as a coward, shirker, wimp.


Still "following orders" christainpfc?
That didn't work very well for the defendants at the Nuremberg Trials, did it.
I admire those "cowards, shirkers and whimps" who evade military service by any means possible. They are the real heroes.

[a447]

SG wrote:
If they don't want to undertake this, then that should be fine too.

Only problem is, someone else must do it in his stead to make up the numbers - unless, of course, everyone in VN get conscripted and it is not it a lottery system.
I don't know which one it is.

SG, do only some citizens have to do their "duty" (only if they want to) or should all bear the burden?

I understand Newalaan's maths - it makes perfect economic sense to pay the 30,000 baht. But what about those who can not afford to borrow that amount? Their sons have to take the place of those who bought their way out. Not fair, IMHO.

[Sooty]

What do you mean you are not authorized to send PMs?! Everyone can send PMs!
I didn't do this but went into programming to see if I could fix it. Send me a PM or post to see if it was fixed. If not, I will have to give it to Stan to fix and he may not see this as it is Sunday.Yeah right. Perhaps you could go back into this thread once it is fixed and explain that you were wrong. Maybe you can also explain you're delaying my posts??[attachment=0:640v8hcj]18-11-2012 17-30-57.png[/attachment:640v8hcj]

[Neal]

I have no idea why you cannot send PMs. Did you send before? As far as delay in posting, I think you may be able to figure that one out for yourself.

[newalaan]

have no idea why you (Sooty) cannot send PMs.
It's off topic but I'll leave it to DaBoss to decide if these posts should remain regarding PM problems. Sooty I had a similar problem a few years ago before the current owner took over the forum. I couldn't send Pm's, couldn't use the quote feature and another feature was locked, while the problem was checked out I had to re-register with a temp handle, in the end no solution was found and I finally had to re-register and change my handle from Alaan to Newalaan to be able to use the features.
So I have no way to know how or why about the PMs. I do know about the delaqy in posting and that will be retstored when you show me that I can be assured that you wont make nasty posts Sooty. So the PMs could be a part od upgrading or a host of other things as NewAlaan and Stan say as it is very old software. Sorry but I did not do it to you and neither did SG.


Only problem is, someone else must do it in his stead to make up the numbers - unless, of course, everyone in VN get conscripted and it is not it a lottery system.I don't know which one it is. SG, do only some citizens have to do their "duty" (only if they want to) or should all bear the burden?I understand Newalaan's maths - it makes perfect economic sense to pay the 30,000 baht. But what about those who can not afford to borrow that amount? Their sons have to take the place of those who bought their way out. Not fair, IMHO. I agree it's not fair, I can only speak for Thailand (not VN) but obviously draft-dodging for money is encouraged to an extent, now there's a surprise! And for those unable to afford the bribe money, while it doesn't mean they automatically take the place of a draft-dodger and land up in the army, it does certainly increase their chances of drawing a red (losing) lottery ticket. I have no idea how endemic corruption is in VN to offer up a financial get-out.


some people - especially gay people - don't WANT to BE a solider and all that that stands for in the first place. To me it just means that they have a mind of their own and are individuals. So, if they choose not to go through that process thats up to them. allowing themselves to be yet another sheep like those accede to their governments demands simply because they are ordered too. So good luck to him for being a unique individual as far as I'm concerned and I hope he continues to live as HE choses and not how society or some Government department tells him he MUST
Come on NIrish, lets face it...NOBODY wants to be called up to the army, but what if everyone took the attitude of having a 'mind of their own' 'gay' "individual" 'unique' sometimes you have just got to stand up and accept your responsiblilities as a member of society...where do you draw the line in a fair society? I'm special, I'm sensitive to paying tax..i dont WANT to pay it...count me out!
Not everybody has to be a frontline combatant, there are so many supporting roles where you are helping your country/society yet not killing, such as medical staff. supplies, catering, desk jobs, HQ work etc...


Therefore I look down on anyone who tried to evade military service in Germany as a coward, shirker, wimp.
Given that Germany is unlikely to ever require conscripts to fight in a frontline battle, along with your description of what seems to be no more than a 10 month holiday camp, I really can't see what is 'cowardly' about avoiding German national service. It sounds more 'inconvenient' than dangerous.


Now, if you have anything to add that might be helpful on this topic, I await it with bated breath. If it is just going to become a slag-fest I may as well lock it, as the point of opening the topic was to ask for advice, not (edited later by the OP to include nit-picking) abuse
You are not getting away with that. As someoe who is credited with more nit-picking abusive posts than any other living soul here on this forum (as your recent example with a new poster here attests,) you are hardly in the position to raise the subject with anyone. YOU are the only poster here talking-up slagfests. The attempt to use your mod-status to intimidate (I'll lock the post!! I will!! I will!! Don't you know who I am??!!).........is a) funny b)naff c) to be expected and d) absolutely pointelss as you are about as intimidating as wee jimmy Krankie.

There was nothing abusive in my post, it asked questions the answers to which might well be of interest to others finding themselves in similar circumstances regarding draft-dodging boyfriends. There are other members on this forum apart from you to consider. I'll give you the last word, i wont be playing your games.

Already discussed with all the parties and agree on not locking threads. DaBoss

[Sooty]

Thanks newalaan, I've always thought you one of the more interesting and helpful members of the Forum. This whole saga came about because a Moderator asked me to PM him and I replied I cannot - but apparently it's all my fault and the owner doesn't see it as his problem to fix even though it was his Moderator who asked me for a PM. The Theatre of the Absurd has much to teach us. I frankly couldn't care less about the PM function; I usually get a PM from time to time from the Mods admonishing me for some form of naughty behaviour and it goes straight to Trash. The latest was a rather pompous one from Scottish-Git who seems to think that because I'm probably a victim of racism I should recognise bullying when I come across it. I suppose if he wants to play the victim card for himself he's welcome to it, but he shouldn't impose it on others.

[Neal]

Your rude post is irrelevent Sooty. Who asked you and why they asked you to PM I don't care. The point is that someone asked you to PM them and you could not and posted your complaint on the board. Now while I have tried to have it fixed for you through tech support and posted same you feel that this is a personal vendetta.
I am happy to know that comments regarding your rude behavior and name calling go straight into the trash and you do not read them so rather than PMing you I will just suspend your account next time and you can have no features and access for a month or two which I am sure you won't care about either.
This issue has gone from a PM tech problem to a moderator problem and if you would like to continue it may I suggest that you read the Rules and Guidelines that Smiles created when I took over this board and follow them. I have kept your complaint and our attempt to resolve it on the open board so that others can see it as you seem to want to keep it public.

[aot871]

I dont know any thing about the vietnam army and their national service but i just think , of what JFK said Dont ask what your country can do for you , Ask what you can do for your country. If your country calls just answer that call . I spent 15 yrs in the army , and enjoyed most of that time, It became more like a normal job.

aot871 - I have no problem with you taking that view.

However, you made a positive choice to be in the Army for 15 years and that's all good and dandy - I support you being able to make that choice.

What I don't understand is your insistance that it's my (or anybody else's) duty to be forced to follow your course of action (albeit for 2 years instead of 15).

:dontknow:

And to follow on from Newallans post re "oh come on there are many ways you can serve your country" - you're ABSOLUTELY right there - but I don't see to many people being conscripted into the civil service, or the fire service or the National Health service etc ( using the UK solely as a random example of course and yes I know they don't conscript in the UK anymore) but if you are correct that there are many in which you could serve your Country ( if that's even a requirement in my book!) then why not be given a choice, I understand during the war conscientious objectors where allowed to do "other work" but that option doesn't seem to remain open any longer, it's pick up a gun, do military service with a gun and learn how to kill people or jail - not a "great choice" if you object to the former but would rather not go through the latter perhaps when living in a supposedly free society.

I agree with NIrish 100% - in the case of my BF he would quite happily do some of the jobs that have been suggested, but I'm afraid "pick 'n' mix" isn't an option.

Since we are so far off topic anyway, I may as well throw in that I don't buy the "just answer your Country's call" bit either
- as that seems to extend (even in so-called modern democracies) to signing-up to killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in illegal wars entered into on a pack of lies.

[aot871]

Scottish , my point is , if its the law of the land , then just get on with it , i dont agree with every thing my goverment says but i have to get on with it, ie taxes have to be paid , but , i agree with you national service is one thing you will never get every body to agree on. but at least vietnam is not at war with any one at the moment.

Aot81, there is a long and honourable history of defying the "law of the land" when it comes to matters of conscience - and that is my position exactly - I would go to jail before I would join the military, but I respect your different view even though you don't respect mine.

And I've said it before but I'll say it again - there's no point pontificating about the "law of the land" when many/most/all who post here are prepared to disregard it completely when it comes to prostitution.

[Captain Swing]

Leaving aside the "morality" of serving or not serving, is your BF sure he's willing to accept the consequences of exiling himself from his home for a period of years? Is he SURE the problem will go away when he's 25? Is that based on something concrete, something more than "My friend say..."? It sounds surprisingly lenient. Does he not have any family--what if Papa or Mama gets sick, or worse? And (I say this with full respect and nothing but Christian charity in my heart) what if you two break up and he's left alone in a foreign country with no home to return to? I wouldn't want to go in the army either, but for him wouldn't it maybe be better than years of uncertainty and homesickness?

Everything you say may very well be correct Cap'n - but what can I do?

He is already in this situation, it's a done deal - and has now gone on for 2 years. Moving around constantly - 6 months here, 3 months there. Everything we try there is some fucking problem because he is from VN - any UK or US or Aus citizen would have very little problem getting study Visas or the like but that's not how it works for VN people.

[joe552]

SG, I agree with you generally in what you've said about conscription, but given that you say it's now gone on for 2 years, and with no end in sight, would it not have been better to do his time in the army, which by now would be over? Does he have the option to return to VN and do his service or is he considered a "deserter"? How is he surviving - as you say he has to move around, how is he making a living? Maybe it's time for him to consider going home and getting this over with? I apprediate it's a tough position but wonder if it's better to for him to face the situation and get it over with.

[anonone]

I feel for your situation SG. I honestly do not know what we would have done had BF lost the lottery and was facing the Army life. I have no answers, but wish you all the best.

And I agree wholeheartedly with your frustration dealing with immigration from this part of the world. A double whammy for us trying to be with the ones we love...

gay and partner from SE Asia.

I agree with Scotty Ive been to prison when I was younger for having sex with another guy jeez the wife was pissed off but obeying the law is optional realy just dont get cort.

[witchhunt]

I agree with Scotty Ive been to prison when I was younger for having sex with another guy jeez the wife was pissed off but obeying the law is optional realy just dont get cort.

lucky you were from queensland as the nsw jails are much tougher

I guess it's not called Queensland for nothing then :evil4:

Unfortunately, I hear the same can not be said of the Virgin islands. :laughing8: