Boyztown signs have come down!

[DragonMaster]

Here's news that will certainly excite and delight all of the masterful marketing executives who have moaned in the past about the Boyztown signs at the entrance to Soi 3. Both have been removed as of 10:40am this morning.

I'm certain the Boyztown consortium took the sage advice of the posters here who thought it was time for them to go! :sign5:
We may now have to find a new name for the area.

[corky]

The final nail in the coffin of Boyztown?
Not content with gross overpricing they have now removed their only advertising that showed them to be different from other sois in Pattaya.
Stupid.

[Neal]

Personally I think that is the best thing that ever happened. I think it had its time and was a good thing for many many years but now it has become a, how should I say, a thing to laugh and gawk at. A thing for Asian tourists to walk through, laugh and make fun of.
I really think that area needs to be spruced up with plants and nice white lights or something and really look good. Then maybe they may see more business from a different clientele that they did not get before.

Good luck to Boyztown or whatever they may call it and know that I truly am sorry that the future has caught up with the signs but everything happens for a reason.

Everyone hopefully will remember and thank Jim and Gordon for their developement of Boyztown, the signs and their vision and hope that no one ever forgets. :hello2:

[Marsilius]

This is merely the long overdue recognition of reality - that, for quite a few years now, the real "boy's town" in terms of the number and concentration of businesses has been Sunnee Plaza.

.. the real "boy's town" in terms of the number and concentration of businesses has been Sunnee Plaza.

You're correct - but would you connect it with the well-known preference of many gay men for cheap filth and sleaze?

:party

[Neal]

Good. Put the signs up down in Sunee and let the Chinese gawkers go down there.

[Marsilius]

Putting aside the "filth and sleaze" - which is surely a subjective value judgement to be made on an individual basis - Sunnee Plaza is not cheap in economic terms.

It only appears to be so in a comparison with Boyztown because the latter, as has frequently been observed here, in most cases followed a flawed economic strategy that reacted to economic problems by pricing itself out of the market.

Marsilius, I feel you are dancing on the head of a pin.

Yes "sleaze and filth" is a subjective judgement but I think the consensus of opinion would be that Sunee has far more of it than BT. I could detail activities which happen openly in Sunee which you would never see in BT - and which most people would agree fall into the S&F category - but we all know what those activities are anyway.

As for prices - yes Sunee is cheap only in comparison to BT, but when those are the only 2 significant choices in Pattaya it's reasonable to say that Sunee visitors are (irrespective of the other delights that Sunee may offer) choosing the cheaper option.

Not that I'm saying that there is anything wrong with sleaze, filth, and relative cheapness - I'm just saying that many gay men have a preference for all three. And if they do, Sunee is the place to be rather than BT - which might explain it being the "real" Boys Town, as you assert.

[aot871]

I have been told by a third party , that a new sign will be going up shortly , the old one having been broken , allowing water to enter when it rains. As i said 3rd party only so i cant swear to truth

[Neal]

I don't always bet but I have been know to sometimes and if there were bets on this to be had, I would surely bet with you aot unfortuantely.

[Oliver]

Aot's comment makes sense....I can remember three occasions when the sign has caused a fire when it rains while I sat in Panorama. I bet there have been a lot more instances than that.

[firecat69]

Marsilius, I feel you are dancing on the head of a pin.
As for prices - yes Sunee is cheap only in comparison to BT, but when those are the only 2 significant choices in Pattaya it's reasonable to say that Sunee visitors are (irrespective of the other delights that Sunee may offer) choosing the cheaper option.

There is very little difference between prices in BoysTown and Sunee if you compare apples with apples. You cannot compare Beer Bars with GoGo Bars.

GoGo Bars in both places have similar prices and many in BT offer shows which there are none in Sunee.

In some cases you may be right - but let's take the old Oscar's as an example of a beer/host bar in BT.

From memory a beer was around 100-120B - even during any happy Hour - right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

In a Sunee beer bar @ Happy Hour I could often get 2 beers for that price, and outside Happy Hours I would still pay 30-40% less than in bT.

So, that's "apples with apples" and Sunee is considerably cheaper.

I think gogo price comparison between BT and Sunee might be closer if you include Happy Place in BT which does great deals. If you exclude HP then again I think there's a significant price differential between the 2 areas.

But when you talk about Sunee not offering shows, you're right of course now that Topman has gone (which was more like comedy night than a cabaret show - with the pot-bellied French tranny owner doing his drag). But you certainly pay a premium for the show in BT (again except for HP) - you need to factor in that a bottle of JWBL in Copa may cost close to 3000B as it did the last time I was there, so it's fair to say you aren't getting a show "thrown in" in BT, as you seem to suggest. In fact, whether it's Copa or BBB - you are paying handsomely for the show (which is fair enough), it's not free "added value".

Having said all that - the Topic is the BT Sign.

Price-bitching is a different thread.

[frequentflier]

Personally I think that is the best thing that ever happened. I think it had its time and was a good thing for many many years but now it has become a, how should I say, a thing to laugh and gawk at. A thing for Asian tourists to walk through, laugh and make fun of.
I really think that area needs to be spruced up with plants and nice white lights or something and really look good. Then maybe they may see more business from a different clientele that they did not get before.

Good luck to Boyztown or whatever they may call it and know that I truly am sorry that the future has caught up with the signs but everything happens for a reason.

Everyone hopefully will remember and thank Jim and Gordon for their developement of Boyztown, the signs and their vision and hope that no one ever forgets. :hello2:
Totally agree.

[Marsilius]

"...I think that is the best thing that ever happened... hope that no one ever forgets..."

You "totally agree" with that hyperbole???

It's an advertising sign, for God's sake, not a cure for cancer.

[christianpfc]

I hope it's only for restauration and will be replaced by a new one (that looks the same) soon.

The sign belongs to Boyztown like the Eiffel Tower belongs to Paris.

[egel]

The sign belongs to Boyztown like the Eiffel Tower belongs to Paris.
...And London Bridge belongs to London??

Actually I thought London bridge belonged to Arizona !! ?

[Liamog]

Actually I thought London bridge belonged to Arizona !! ?

Not like the Norn Irish to fail to recognise sarcasm :8(

yeah see I did wonder about that........but hey I thought I'd take a shot - just like the Northern Irish eh ! :-)

[joe552]

.but hey I thought I'd take a shot - just like the Northern Irish eh ! :-)

ah now you're just making it too easy so I won't go with the obvious retort :occasion9:

[ServeUncutUncle-old]

There are Numerous occasions when there has to be a Face-Lift in Boystown. :jok:

[christianpfc]

When I first came to Pattaya (not that long ago: January 2010), I had absolutely no idea how public transport in Pattaya works and where Boyztown is. I told the baht-bus driver at the northern bus terminal that I want to go to Le Cafe Royale in Boyztown and agreed to the fee. During the ride I was wondering if I have to look out where my destination is or if he remembers the destions for all passengers. What a relief when I saw the Boyztown sign!

[Marsilius]

Maybe, if a sign is going to be restored, it will actually be the original one that read BOYSTOWN. Somehow, though, I doubt it...

[jcowle]

It will reappear soon, with slight changes

JC

[SlaveDriver]

I am glad finally the first step has taken place. I was the first to advocate the need to re-brand and restructure the entire BoyzTown business meeting the demands of the changing business/travelers enviornment. Welcome move :party

Now do we have set vision before we select the name? We need to have a long term vision and strategy before deciding on the name. The name should appeal to the current demographics of tourists and as well all the bars should change the concepts to match the new name.

"Entertainment Town" is something that I can think of now. The wasted space in Panorama and Boyz Boyz should be turned into discos of DJ style and cater to Unisex. At the same time we should not lose the gay identity. How best you can blend these two needs and make this a real entertainment town is left to the big players to formulate the right stratgies and implement them and market the new concept.

Time to change to stay in business should be the guiding principles.

Good first start. Lets see how you guys make the next move :party

[lonelywombat]

Slavedriver! Dont get too excited . I believe the sign will be up almost as it was, before the end of November.

[Marsilius]

How best you can blend these two needs and make this a real entertainment town is left to the big players to formulate the right stratgies and implement them and market the new concept.

Apart from coming up with the Boystown/Boyztown concept more than 20 years ago, the so-called "big players" have shown since then a zero grasp of devising or implementing any business plan other than screwing the punters for all they are worth. Chickens, in these more straitened times, are now coming home to roost.

The characteristic Pattaya gay bar "business plan" has hitherto defied all known laws of economics and has appeared to succeed - even though unnumbered bars and individual owners have fallen by the wayside in the process - because of its unique product, its appeal to gay customers with their greater spending power, and the booming pre-2008 world economy. It has not succeeded because of the "big players'" or anyone else's commercial acumen.

Unfortunately, lulled by years of prosperity into a complacent mindset, the Boyztown entrepreneurs will, judging by past records, refuse to recognise reality, reject the idea that they might need any expert professional business guidance and, in all probability, go the way of the dinosaurs that they increasingly so much resemble.

The funny thing is - the visible "dinosaurs" are not (with one exception - who now has limited involvement) the original inhabitants..

Almost all the major venues have been bought over within the last 10 years, and some far more recently than that - so how do you explain the continued malaise and lack of change? Is there something in the BT air which infects new owners immediately on moving in and paralyses them ?

Unless, of course, the current business owners are all hamstrung by some other, more mysterious, figure in the shadows who is actually the one dictating the play. :idea1: :evil4:

[Marsilius]

New ownership makes no difference because the new owners - largely retiring to see out their days and running their bars as a hobby, a source (they imagine) of boys for sex, or merely a vanity project - come with capital (having sold up at home) but no business experience or even sense. They therefore buy in to the current flawed model until they themselves become its victims and are replaced in turn by someone new who thinks he can do better.

[newalaan]

Unfortunately, lulled by years of prosperity into a complacent mindset, the Boyztown entrepreneurs will, judging by past records, refuse to recognise reality,
am glad finally the first step has taken place. I was the first to advocate the need to re-brand and restructure the entire BoyzTown business meeting the demands of the changing business/travelers enviornment. Welcome move
For me Marsillius is the reality that i believe Pattaya is the actual problem, not specifically boyztown in attracting new, young, affluent gay travellers. Young gays who have the world to choose from simply do not want to be associated with Pattaya's reputation, (that's what some young gays told me on my last visit to Phuket when I asked why they don't go to Pattaya) so....no amount of rebranding, reinvention, reinvigoration of Boyztown will change that. Tweaks might attract a small amount of regulars from other areas of Pattaya...that is about it. Only a new club open from 1am - 4am would attract any significant amount of new punters to Boyztown , but that would also include some of the 'fickle gay crowd' and so could not be relied on for longterm returns, so would beg the question how can any 'businessman'/'entrepreneur' be sure to get a return for any costly revamp in Boyztown?

Pattaya is a great place to visit for a limited duration, for me and my bf max 7-10 days. Pattaya is primarily suited to single men who are excluded from the gay scenes in their own countries due simply to their age. In that respect Pattaya is a wonderful destination, in other respects it is considered by many as shitsville-by-the-sea, that term proven by the sheer lack of young affluent gays in Boyztown (and Sunee, Jomtien).

Some will obviously disagree with me regarding Pattaya....but how many of you who visit Thailand tell family, friends, work colleagues that Pattaya is your main destination, and how many of the expats who live here are proud to tell all that Pattaya is where they live?

[Dboy]

The sign belongs to Boyztown like the Eiffel Tower belongs to Paris.

The difference of course is that many people actually like visiting Paris.

Dboy

[Dboy]

Pattaya is a great place to visit for a limited duration, for me and my bf max 7-10 days. Pattaya is primarily suited to single men who are excluded from the gay scenes in their own countries due simply to their age. In that respect Pattaya is a wonderful destination, in other respects it is considered by many as shitsville-by-the-sea, that term proven by the sheer lack of young affluent gays in Boyztown (and Sunee, Jomtien).

I realize you did say *primarily*, but I assure you that younger guys in decent shape can find plenty to do in Pattaya; and they are around town, just not in Boyztown (no reason to go there). Starting next week I will be doing Muay Thai training on the "dark side" of Suk Road, and it's just a normal Thai town over there. I can motorbike over to Sunee, pick up a new friend, and be out of there in less than an hour. It's quite easy to have minimal exposure to Brits or other farangs with spiderweb face tattoos living on their 25K baht a month railroad workers pension. Just like anywhere else, you have to make your own life and and decide what type of people to seek out or avoid.

Dboy

[thaiguest]

I have been told by a third party , that a new sign will be going up shortly , the old one having been broken , allowing water to enter when it rains. As i said 3rd party only so i cant swear to truth

This may be what's happening, I hope so.
However if the iconic sign is gone for ever you can take it from me it's after careful deliberation. I suspect that the removal of the sign will open options for the bar owners to 'de-gay' boys town quickly as soon this becomes their decision to do so. I've said it many times and I'm saying again now that deep down in every gay bar owner lurks the desire to become a hip trendy bar owner catering for the straight market.

...I've said it many times and I'm saying again now that deep down in every gay bar owner lurks the desire to become a hip trendy bar owner catering for the straight market.

It doesn't really matter how often you say it, it's whether you're right or not - and I just don't think you are.

Can you indicate a few of these current bar (as opposed to hotel) owners in BT who would want to run 'hip and trendy str8 bars'?

:dontknow:

[thaiguest]

I can't because I don't know the names of all the bar owners but they're all in the frame as far as I'm concerned and the gay bar owners in Silom Soi 4 along with them.

Fair enough - but let's be honest, it's just supposition on your part.

There's no evidence to say that these bar owners would rather be operating "hip and trendy str8 bars" - quite the reverse I would have thought, given that they voluntarily operate gay bars in a gay area.

:dontknow:

[thaiguest]

Fair enough - but let's be honest, it's just supposition on your part.

There's no evidence to say that these bar owners would rather be operating "hip and trendy str8 bars" - quite the reverse I would have thought, given that they voluntarily operate gay bars in a gay area.

:dontknow:
We're going to have to agree to differ on this but as a final contribution let me state that it makes perfect sense for these bar owners to operate as gay now because for the moment it's what they do on a day-to-day basis. My post is qualified by the term 'deep down' ie long term a straight trendy Customer base will be encouraged. It has happen to the gay areas of California, Montreal, etc so what's so unique about Boystown in Pattaya?
Only one bar in Boystown has been honest on this issue, namely Happy Place and they deserve credit for this. This venue openly promotes the venue as uni-sex and gives the prospective customers outside notice of what they can expect inside ie a venue where gay men will have to compete with women for boys and will sometimes (perhaps not often) have to endure the ridicule of the boyfriends that many women customers drag along. And that's fair enough by me: my time will not be wasted going in there unlike the other venues that have exactly the same policy but try to keep all sides on side.

[thaiguest]

Putting aside the "filth and sleaze" - which is surely a subjective value judgement to be made on an individual basis - Sunnee Plaza is not cheap in economic terms.

It only appears to be so in a comparison with Boyztown because the latter, as has frequently been observed here, in most cases followed a flawed economic strategy that reacted to economic problems by pricing itself out of the market.

Mr Marcilius, have you no gratitude?

The moral police are lighting your way on the strait and narrow path through filth and sleaze and you have no thanks for that? What about your reputation, your immortal soul? Sunnee Plaza- the Heart of Pattaya Darkness the Horror, The Horror! Enough to put me off my 60 or 70 baht beer, almost.

[Marsilius]

.....But, I am reassured to hear, not quite.