Big mistake...

[latintopxxx]

Paying the commercial boys their asking rate....on past advice and in order to build up some positive karma decided to off some commercial boys off the beach and not bargain..did 5 in 3 days...paid between bht1000 and 1500...all were good...performed spectacularly....customer (me) totally satisfied....only annoying thing is that the next day or later on in the same day they ALL had a sob story...scooter accident(twice) , fire in the room & phone got stolen and could I spare another 2 or 3 hundred bar??????
Funny...I never had this issue before when I bargained their price down........deleted
Try to be nice and you end up being a target...at least when the last one came back I told him I was leaving the very next morning and only had 600 on cash but wanted a bit of action which he agreed to..

Oh dry your eyes for FUCK sake !! you can't blame the boys for trying and if it causes you that much pain you can always simply say no, and as you're complaining that you were paying 1000 or 1500 and then being asked for a few hundred more that all equates to a typical off fee and a fuck from any bar so what ARE you complaining about - get over yourself and stop being such a wanker about money and sex it's very unbecoming and just makes you look like a proper asshole - both to the boys and I'm guessing to a lot of us too.

Well, NIrish has already wiped the floor with you so I'll be gentle!

Since you have said these requests happened later in the same day or the following day, I can only assume you either kept the boy with you or you encountered him again later.

If it's the former, then you really ought to have paid more than the short time rate (which is what you get for 1000-1500 you quoted).

If it's the latter, then the deal was done at the time, so either just say "no" or find some way of getting value back (which you did)

I have to say, it's never happened to me that anybody has come back and asked for a further sum - maybe because they're just glad to get shot of me :sign5:

certainly not my intention to wipe anything with anybody :-) but I just say it as I see it and you're absolutely right Scots that if the meeting was at the beach then they no doubt sat with you, drank with you, spent time with you and it wasn't a short time wham, bam, thank you mam deal - and even if it was it's STILL about the same figures that you'd pay anywhere else and the never ending ongoing fetish Latin seems to have about saving some baht which seems more about degrading his sex partner than the actual amount of money involved just wears a bit thin - and at the very least if that's what it is just be honest and say "I didn't get my rocks off as I couldn't entertain my particular money / use and abuse based fetish as much as i like to" - but when you happily admit to it being good sex and you enjoying yourself it just sounds mean not shrewd to keep bringing up the same old money point - especially when you're paying no more or no less than anyone else - although know Latin perhaps therein REALLY lies the problem.

[newalaan]

....Beginning paragraph deleted


Paying the commercial boys their asking rate....on past advice and in order to build up some positive karma decided to off some commercial boys off the beach and not bargain..did 5 in 3 days...paid between bht1000 and 1500...all were good...performed spectacularly....customer (me) totally satisfied....only annoying thing is that the next day or later on in the same day they ALL had a sob story...scooter accident(twice) , fire in the room & phone got stolen and could I spare another 2 or 3 hundred bar??????Funny...I never had this issue before when I bargained their price down........deletedTry to be nice and you end up being a target...at least when the last one came back I told him I was leaving the very next morning and only had 600 on cash but wanted a bit of action which he agreed to Well that is exactly what happens when you give an inch...thai mentality is take a mile! I agree with you that their view that they think you are dumb enough to believe these fantasy stories of whatever tragedy has not occured is nothing more than an insult. For you it may be the money (though i doubt it), for me it's the principal. But an interesting observation nonetheless Latinpoxx. I have always despised your basic attitude to boys who sell themselves, but much of what you say is absolutely true to life, even though in many instances you are honest. is still sickening.


certainly not my intention to wipe anything with anybody :-) but I just say it as I see it and you're absolutely right Scots that if the meeting was at the beach then they no doubt sat with you, drank with you, spent time with you and it wasn't a short time wham, bam, thank you mam deal - and even if it was it's STILL about the same figures that you'd pay anywhere else and the never ending ongoing fetish Latin seems to have about saving some baht which seems more about degrading his sex partner than the actual amount of money involved just wears a bit thin - and at the very least if that's what it is just be honest and say "I didn't get my rocks off as I couldn't entertain my particular money / use and abuse based fetish as much as i like to" - but when you happily admit to it being good sex and you enjoying yourself it just sounds mean not shrewd to keep bringing up the same old money point - especially when you're paying no more or no less than anyone else - although know Latin perhaps therein REALLY lies the problem
Oh dry your eyes for FUCK sake !! you can't blame the boys for trying and if it causes you that much pain you can always simply say no, and as you're complaining that you were paying 1000 or 1500 and then being asked for a few hundred more that all equates to a typical off fee and a fuck from any bar so what ARE you complaining about - get over yourself and stop being such a wanker about money and sex it's very unbecoming and just makes you look like a proper asshole - both to the boys and I'm guessing to a lot of us too.
Nirish it's you who needs to get off their high horse, Latinpoxxx posted only what he experienced, and as i said above he is right, give some thais an inch and they will take a mile. It's an isult to one's intelligence for them to think you actually buy their bullshit, and forget the amount of money or anything to do with the money, it's the whole prinicpal and I agree with him 100%. You are just having a 'go' because it's a Latinpoxx post, at least he is honest with working boys, he negotiates then pays what has been agreed, it is up to the boy to accept or not, end of! I dont like his previous liking for squeezing the price down anymore than you or the rest of us, to me his 'normal' offerings are cheap, mean and miserly but here we have him paying WHAT HAS BEEN ASKED, which is perfectly fine, and you still manage to find something to have a go about. If a beach boy is happy with Bt1000 or Bt1500 it is he who has already factored in all the time, services rendered etc...and has asked for the amount HE considers fair/ok, why take issue with Latinpoxx, he is only doing what everyone else here does.

How anybody would consider your post as coming anywhere near to 'wiping the board' with him god only knows, then they need to actually consider what you wrote. As far as I can see all you did was moan for the sake of it. Latinpoxx pays Bt500 he is castigated, he pays Bt1000 or Bt1500 is gets the same treatment...i think that is what you call a 'no-win' situation' with some members here. It wasn't 'the same old money' point he was making it was a straightforward observation of the difference he has found in mean negotiation versus meeting the 'normal' asking price, and the thai reaction thereafter.

[bruce_nyc]

I object to people constantly calling this, "the Thai reaction".

These boys are human beings.

They are also in business.

This is not a "Thai reaction"..... It is a HUMAN reaction.

I don't think I've ever participated in any business relationship in my LIFE.... where I spent some money... and then the other party DID NOT try to UP SELL me to get more money out of me.

This happens when buying a car in America, when buying an apartment in Manhattan, when buying a plane ticket online, when ordering a meal in a very upscale restaurant (think wine steward, drinks and more drinks, deserts) and even McDonald's cashiers are well trained in the techniques of the up sell. "Would you like to try a hot apple pie with that?" "Would you like fries with that?"

These boys are not your lovers ( at least not yet ). They are BUSINESS men.

Do not blame them for trying to get more money out of a customer who is happily willing to part with it...

ESPECIALLY when you know damn well that you do the exact same thing back in your business back in your career back in your home country.... whenever you encounter a big spending customer that has more money than sense.

It's just human. And it's just business.

And it's YOUR mistake if you forget that it's just business.

Oh and one more thing.... Before you criticize too strongly, YOU try living on their average monthly income for ONE month... without any outside help.... and see if you survive.

I swear.... it's like listening to Bill Gates complaining and whining about his money problems.

I have far more important things to listen to.

"It's the principal of the thing."

Apparently, my principles are quite the opposite from yours.

If it was really about the principle of lying, then why don't you make it a learning opportunity for them. Tell him it's not necessary to make up a lie, and give him the 6 lousy dollars anyway. Or was it really really really just about you holding onto your 6 lousy dollars? ....and the "principal" thing was just very convenient excuse for you.

[Patexpat]

I'll pass on an observation made to me by my first 'real' Thai boyfriend over 10 years ago. He said (to paraphrase) that many Thais regard a show of kindness as weakness to be exploited ..... not my observation but that of a Thai.

[a447]

I agree with you 100 percent, Bruce. It is simply a kind of business deal, but in this situation, one side is more desperate than the other.
As for businesses up selling and trying to get an extra buck out of you, the boys are just doing the same. That doesn't mean I'm. always happy with that, especially as I usually pay at the higher end. But it no longer surprises me.
Cheapskates obviously can't afford Thailand and so should either stay home or find somewhere they can afford to visit.

[lexusgs]

I'll pass on an observation made to me by my first 'real' Thai boyfriend over 10 years ago. He said (to paraphrase) that many Thais regard a show of kindness as weakness to be exploited ..... not my observation but that of a Thai.

100% agree with you Pat. I've been fortunate enough to have taken a well earned career break for the last 18 months here. I have no objection to the what the Thai guys do in Pattaya for
a living considering the salaries on offer elsewhere. Trust me, day in day out they do a great job of taking your eyeballs out if they can get away with it. Bruce may well object to the term 'Thai reaction' but there is certainly a 'Pattaya reaction'. :laughing3:

Customers/Guys come to Pattaya to enjoy whats on offer. Some fall hook, line and sinker and it all starts from there. I've got 2 quite special guys who I see quite often. They both have at least 2 farangs each who send them money @ around 40,000 per month from farangland. They still hunt out the new customers/victims most days etc etc. Thats the 'Thai Pattaya' mentality/reaction. Never enough and give me some more. I say good luck to them if they can get away with that :tongue3: The guys make a choice to sell themselves. There are plenty of others that don't.

We just need to remember that Pattaya is not representative of Thailand as a whole.

[bruce_nyc]

That is not the Thailand / Pattaya mentality. That is the human business mentality.

When was the last time you told your boss you did not want that pay raise? When was the last time you were heard saying that you have enough income, and you no longer want any extra income? If you are in business, when was the last time you said, "I have enough customers. I don't need any more customers"?

Let's stop being hypocrites.

Business is business.... everywhere in the world.

In almost every business transaction in the world one side is more desperate than the other.

Also, cheapskates exist everywhere.

Almost every business sees a big spending customer as something to be exploited and they even train all of their employees on the best techniques to exploit the "sales opportunity" ( i.e. the big spending customer ).┬а In our Western culture this is seen as a wonderful brilliant beautiful clever well respected thing.

I think the real problem is when you forget that you are the paying customer, and you begin to believe that you are just some sort of philanthropist giving generously to a charity.

That type of skewed thinking is sure to distort your perspective.

Then again, our Baby tells me, "You talk too much." ...and he's probably right. :-)

[lexusgs]

Bruce

I guess by the speed of your response 'you think too much' too....lol. Business is business you're quite right. I've been in business long enough to understand what the guys are doing. I don't think there are too many cheapskates out there. If you see it as a business transaction that's all well and good. On the other hand you also want they guys to be treated as human beings. I'm sure we all agree with that. Especially myself. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Mine is from several, sometimes difficult experiences. I reckon you might understand the other side of things when you have had 10 years of visiting under your belt. I must say that I have enjoyed your reports though Bruce. I do wish you all the best with your new guy going forward.

@newallan - firstly I agree with you re the wiping the board / floor thing which is exactly what I think I'd said in my previous post, I don't see that at all and nor was it my intention to imply it and I thought I'd been fairly clear about that. What I did and do object to was the premise that paying a boy the "going rate" was a BIG MISTAKE ( as per the posts title) as they STILL ask you for more and my point, as others have also alluded to, is that OF COURSE the boys will still ask for more, it's what they do and is to be expected and if one doesn't care to play that game you can politely decline any further money.

But to suggest one would be better NOT paying a fair and normal going rate to a boy, who's evening meal or roof over his head may depend on it is the bit that I find crass and unnecessary and I stand by those comments and still hold that Latin's view is actually nothing to do with "the cost" but the humiliation and control fetish of people less well off than himself that he seems to display and IF that's his issue then he shouyld just say so and not dress it up as a money issue when the amount he's paying is the same as everyone else anyway otherwise basically his post converts to "I had sex and paid the same as everyone else but as I was asked for more I should have just screwed them into the ground as normal and I'd be thought no less of" - and as the boys asking for more is "normal" anyway that logic is just as unpleasant as most of his other views on his interactions with the many sex workers he encounters and choses to abuse and degrade to feed his fetish when travelling around the world.

[christianpfc]

I'll pass on an observation made to me by my first 'real' Thai boyfriend over 10 years ago. He said (to paraphrase) that many Thais regard a show of kindness as weakness to be exploited ..... not my observation but that of a Thai.

Last month, was chatting with a boy I offed and found out that he lived not far from my hotel. I paid him 2000 Baht (!) for long time (we did not discuss payment in advance) and thought I was generous, nonetheless he asked for 100 Baht more for taxi, which I gave him (instead of offering to walk him home). Now I am wondering: does he consider me stupid, having short memory, or a good heart?

[lexusgs]

Christian,

From experience I would say that he probably views you as all of the above. The lines all get very blurred. Don't worry about it :alc:

Christian, honestly it's probably a bit of both, I'm not sure stupid is the right word necessarily but maybe soft or an easy touch etc might be closer - but as I always think is that SUCH a bad thing if for the sake of that extra 100 baht which is nothing to you or I that they "think" they've gotten one over on you, in light of the usual preceding actions I just write it off as one of those quirky things that happen in Thailand. On the other hand and to give him "some" benefit of the doubt those taxi drivers are a nightmare for never carrying change and if he handed him one of the 1000 baht notes I'm guessing you gave him the driver probably wouldn't thank him for that - mind you as we both know he probably didn't ever get that taxi home anyway and saved the 100 that he wangled out of you for something else, but hey it's 100 baht and in the bigger scheme of life can you blame him, I know I don't when it happens to me and if it's a 100 baht here and there it's not the end of the world - now if it was 1000 baht or something larger they get a polite short answer just so they KNOW we're not all stupid and we do KNOW what they're doing but for 100 baht hell it doesn't hurt to let them"win" somethings - especially as we've usually just fucked the life clean out of them half an hour before I find ! Obviously some people disagree and feel that the minimum amount possible and not a penny more is the way to go to "win" the game, but personally in the bigger scheme of life I just think that's petty and cheap.

[bruce_nyc]

I agree.

Back at home they wouldn't think anything of tipping a drag queen singing old torch songs with a $5 bill...

But the young hung hot stud you just fucked until you couldn't fuck any more...
And you're really going to begrudge them an f-ing $3 tip.

REALLY?

Remember, the 1500 or 2000 or whatever you negotiated.... is the FEE.

The TIP is above and beyond that. .....or else it's not a tip.

If I enjoyed it.... I would always give them more... without them needed to ASK for it.

( The only exception was when I offed a boy for 2000 per day, plus 300 bar fee, for 33 days straight. No tip for him! I just made him my boyfriend instead. I did try to negotiate a discount with the mamasan for "If I off him for two years"... The mamasan offered a generous 50% discount in that case. :-) But, after us, he took another month off.... and he paid for another month "off" fees before deciding to just quit. And he quit on very good terms. )

[gaymandenmark]

On the other hand and to give him "some" benefit of the doubt those taxi drivers are a nightmare for never carrying change and if he handed him one of the 1000 baht notes I'm guessing you gave him the driver probably wouldn't thank him for that - mind you as we both know he probably didn't ever get that taxi home anyway and saved the 100 that he wangled out of you for something else, but hey it's 100 baht and in the bigger scheme of life can you blame him.

It is for sure not a big deal, and I would in fact have no problems to give 100 baht for the taxi.
But I remember one time, very seldom, I was asked for taxi money, and I had no small notes, I smiled to him, said no have, and asked him to go into a 7-11, Tesco or Family Mart and buy some chewinggum, then he would get change back. What the heck they are on all corners, so not a big problem.
He gave me a big smile back and told me: "You are a smart guy, I like you", while he was giving me a hug. :laughing3:

In my eyes, it is all about attitude.

Bruce - on a side note - at 2000 baht a day for 33 day rates etc should you ever find yourself looking for an Irish BF at those sort of rates be sure to give me shout and i'll consider giving up MY job as at those rates I'll make a point of being the best Irish BF you've ever had ! I lie you, you handsome man etc etc !! :-)) lol

[gaymandenmark]

Bruce - on a side note - at 2000 baht a day for 33 day rates etc should you ever find yourself looking for an Irish BF at those sort of rates be sure to give me shout and i'll consider giving up MY job as at those rates I'll make a point of being the best Irish BF you've ever had ! I lie you, you handsome man etc etc !! :-)) lol

But dear NIrish, maybe you are not in a position to get 2000 baht a day for 33 days=66000 baht. Even if you are Irish :glasses7:

[cameroncat]

Pretty funny when people hire prostitutes and then get mad when they behave like prostitutes. If you don't think these boys see you as a walking ATM machine, you're a fool.

Bruce - on a side note - at 2000 baht a day for 33 day rates etc should you ever find yourself looking for an Irish BF at those sort of rates be sure to give me shout and i'll consider giving up MY job as at those rates I'll make a point of being the best Irish BF you've ever had ! I lie you, you handsome man etc etc !! :-)) lol

But dear NIrish, maybe you are not in a position to get 2000 baht a day for 33 days=66000 baht. Even if you are Irish :glasses7:

:-( Alas I fear you are correct there and my days as having a chance at being a hot go go boy are long since behind me :-( ......saying that, as some on this board seem to have fetishes aplenty WHO KNOWS just what strange area of kinkiness I may find unexpectantly find myself being able to excel at in my latter years thus perhaps exceeding the above rates as I would of course be charging farang rates - and I can assure you there would be no bargaining down of my prices and the only abuse and humiliation would be going the one way if they dared tried !!! :-)

Mind you....on the other hand Bruce - I guess in the spirit of our two countries special relationship I'm always open to suggestion and willing to negotiate ! lol

[latintopxxx]

N irish guy...I feel the hate...bit scary...am sure you'r able to heat up a glass of milk just by staring at it.

All the boys were short time...as in I chat them up on the beach for all of 5 minutes...agreed on a price..no arguments..all smiles...made our way back to my room...had a good time..paid...and said thanks and good bye..all within the space of 90 minutes.

I immediately made my way back to my lounger and carried onj enjoying the beach+sun...except Tuesday when a storm blew in..thats when I did 2.

ALL came back with sad tales wanting a little extra...

Again this never happened when I beat their price down and treated them as objects there for my pleasure.....

Last thing I want is to be hassled.. once I've done them they must just go away..I'm on holiday and just like I want my sheets changed daily I want fresh arse daily...not reruns....

[cdnmatt]

That is not the Thailand / Pattaya mentality. That is the human business mentality.

Horrible business mentality at that. Every successful business is far more concerned about LTV (lifetime value) of a customer, whereas these Thai guys constantly shoot themselves in the foot by being greedy & short-sighted, and pushing for short-term gain via lies, deception, etc. All they do is push people away, who otherwise would be around for years to help them out when needed. I'll never understand it, but it seems endemic throughout the poorer populations in Thailand. Worst part is, they think they're being really intelligent and conniving due to the lies and schemes they manage to conjure up.

What do you think would happen if I started lieing to all my customers, because I wanted a quick $20k in a week? I'd very quickly find myself very poor, with nobody to listen or help. That's what these guys constantly do to themselves, and I'll never understand it.

Other thing is, the majority never do anything to help or better themselves. Doesn't matter how much money they come into, they'll just totally piss it all away, and find themselves exactly where they started -- broke, and looking for a few hundred baht to eat. You know, I'm a really good guy, same as many of the posters here, and I'm happy to give someone deserving a helping hand. However, the bar to receive my help is now much higher than it used to be. At the very least, I need to see some incentive on their part -- full-time work, school, learning English on their own time, whatever. A sweet personality, nice smile, and good sob story doesn't mean shit to me anymore.

Yes, itтАЩs a business, but certainly not тАЬjust like when you go to the market/shop in ThailandтАЭ. The shopkeeper is selling inanimate goods or services while the prostitute is selling something much more personal.

тАЬтАжthey are prostitutes and should be approached that wayтАЭ. What way is that? And is тАШthat wayтАЩ consistent with the next line? тАЬAs someone said they are humans, yes they are and should be treated that wayтАЭ.

Where is the human element here? тАЬI beat their price down and treated them as objects there for my pleasure.....тАЭ

Fortunately for the boys, most people contributing to this thread adhere to the widely held understandings about minimum tips. Only the minority of posters appear to agree that paying as little as possible is conscionable.

"Horrible business mentality that....... seems endemic throughout the poorer populations in Thailand". I totally agree. It's endemic everywhere when poverty does not enable people to think past the need to feed themselves each day. But the thread's focus appears to have been.....It's a mistake to pay the usual minimum tips because they always ask for more. I think most posters are saying that the minimums should be paid and the subsequent requests should be dealt with as a separate matter.

...the majority never do anything to help or better themselves. Doesn't matter how much money they come into, they'll just totally piss it all away, and find themselves exactly where they started -- broke, and looking for a few hundred baht to eat...

cdnmatt, it's really getting to the stage now where you almost never have anything positive to say about your bf or his family - and you are projecting his laziness. leeching, and inertia as being the general Thai condition.

It seems to me that you have reached the point at which you now resent him depending on you (don't get me wrong, I've been there myself!) and are clearly unhappy with this relationship.
I'm not trying to be cruel or nasty in saying that maybe you need to extricate yourself - by which I mean not thinking or posting about it but actually doing it. You're too young to become a bitter old queen - plenty of time for that later!

:dontknow:

[a447]

NorthIrishguy wrote:
and if one doesn't care to play that game.......

Exactly. It is all just a game - you play your part and the boy plays his. It's mostly all fake. But, if you both play your cards right, you can both be winners. There doesn't have to be a loser.


gaydenmark wrote:
But dear NIrish, maybe you are not in a position to get 2000 baht a day for 33 days=66000 baht. Even if you are Irish

I met him in Pattaya and thought he was quite hot. (But then, that's me... ) lol


Friendlyme wrote:
Dear farangs,
It is the BOYS job to get your money. :crybaby:
It is YOUR job to keep your money.

Mmm....that just about sums it all up.

[latintopxxx]

Based on my few days experience in being " nice" to the commercial boys I've come to the conclusion that if you simply accept their asking price, smile, and thank them for a service well provided they see you as a walking ATM...someone friendly and approachable that they can hit up with some sob story.
I was super sweet and courteous and it seems to have backfired.
When I was rough and ready in a business way and treated the transaction much the same way as I would when buying counterfeit DVDs they quickly reached the conclusion that here is someone who doesn't part with his money easily and even complains about their performance (always do it to keep them in their place) and basically almost throws then out of the room once I've ball emptied...sometimes don't even let them take a shower..I'm done now so throw your clothes on and go...they tend not to invite themselves to sit on my lounger and make small talk and beg for a few extra baht.
I know that I earn more in a week than they do in a year...but if they turn a trick every 4 days they will make the same as a 7/11 employee....so by local standards they are onto a good thing.

OMFG, Latin - it's times like this I wish I had a bar in Thailand, and that you'd come in and make yourself known.

So I could have you thrown out.

:sign5:

[latintopxxx]

...because I don't want to make small talk....???..guess I'm just a man...once the deed is done I loose interest and wanna roll over and sleep....

[cuteboy]

Well now, it seems to be generally accepted that the boys are in business. It seems right to be pleasant to each and have some respect. No issue there. But I am confused about the tip issue. The first writer was castigated for paying too little. Now, what's too little? I should pay 1000 to 1500 short time I am told here. Just where does that come from? If you offer that in New York or Amsterdam I do not think you would get any takers, so it must depend on Location. I suggest it depends on the attributes of the boy too. More attractive ones can command a higher fee.
So I suggest you make an offer.........the boy is free to turn it down. Gay Romeo has lots of boys available. Most seem very much prepared to accept a lot less than 1000. One, the other day, in whom I had no interest, repeatedly messaged me with each quote lower than the one before. At 400 with my reply being, 'Sorry, no' ,as it had been each time, he gave up. So the market price for his services appears to be 400 baht. Just what am I missing here?

As you say, it is a business transaction. Who is anyone to say that 600 is too cheap? Or 1000, or 1500? Or indeed that 5000 is cheapskate?
The market will determine the acceptable tip. If we pay too little boys will not come to provide the service.
I do not see what high flown moral principles have to do with it.

Wow you've a strange view of what being a man is there latin :) And re your earlier - hate no, I try not to hate anyone so that's too strong, dislike your way of dealing with other humans beings yes, but then I guess we're all different so up to you, but just as you can and do that I guess I can and do say what I think that makes you - and man, no that certainly wouldn't be the word I would chose perhaps :-) Ok, I'm away back to heating up my milk now with a steely gaze for my porridge ;-)

And cuteboy I don't think it's about the "price" per se but more about the beating boys down just because you CAN and that being more about humiliating then and "using" them to service some deeper fetish you play out on, I doubt anyone would complain if when short of funds or otherwise you had a simple "listen this is genuinely how much i can afford, up to you if you want to come with me or not" conversation, but when that translates to "you're only worth XX ( a MUCH lower figure than most other boys get and are then ritually humiliated and abused ( as mentioned above) and thrown out with no "human" decency such as two minute to shower afterwards etc then THAT is where I think the person doing the "haggling" speaks volumes about themselves and the money is very much a secondary thing to them and THAT'S where I think it crosses a line between the price of fuck (up to you what you can afford) and treating another human being like a piece of shit or an object just because as they are poor and desperate you "think" you can.

[lexusgs]

Latin

You're doing a great job of winding many here right? If you're actually real and in Pattaya let me know. I'm on the beach every day right topping up my tan (right now) in prep for a couple of mates
coming out for week or so. Where's your normal resting place cos I gotta buy you a beer :alc:

See, theres the problem, if it was all a bit of wind up that might be funny but good old Latin has explained many times, in (to) graphic detail that he is NOT joking and if you read back on some of the ways he gets his kicks in treating other humans beings as lower forms of life you'll see that he ( at least) claims to get his rocks off on it.......or maybe just gets his rocks off being on here TALKING about it, I'm never sure quite which, but sure after your beer you can perhaps let us all know which you think it ACTUALLY is :)

[lexusgs]

NIrish,

Do you think he's gonna meet? I don't think so....... :tongue3:

NIrish,

Do you think he's gonna meet? I don't think so....... :tongue3:


If you do get to see him, you can satisfy my curiosity - for some reason I imagine him looking like Woody Allen.

:occasion9:

[a447]

NIrish Guy wrote:
but good old Latin has explained many times...

Yes. We've heard those humiliation fantasies over and over and over again. And yet Latin stil drags them up.

Latin - we got it the first time. Thanks.


lexusgs wrote:
Do you think he's gonna meet?

Very, very unlikely. As per usual, chances are he's nowhere near Pattaya. You've got more chance of spotting Elvis.

Also, Latin reported in another thread that 2 of the BBoys were appearing in the X-boysland shower show. Can anyone verify that? I certainly didn't see any of them in the shower! The 2 boys I saw were strutting their stuff on stage before the show. If it is true, I can imagine there will be a line of SGF members outside!
But i doubt it, as they were raking in the money from their short 10 minute performance at Xboys. I know, cos I saw them counting all the money outside on the verandah. Can't see why they'd bother bearing their asses in the shower.

Is Latin making this up as well? Or is he telling the truth?

[bruce_nyc]

@NIrish I'm open minded. But you have some stiff competition. We'll see if you can wake me up in the morning the way my Baby does. ;-)

@cuteboy I agree. I have no problem with negotiating price. Business is business. He will agree, or he will not. He might give less enthusiastic performance. Or he might not. If he's the hottest boy in Thailand, he might not budge on his price. It's all good. Just don't be mean. And don't get off on trying to humiliate a fellow human being.


Pretty funny when people hire prostitutes and then get mad when they behave like prostitutes. If you don't think these boys see you as a walking ATM machine, you're a fool.

Change the term "prostitutes" to "business men".... And the term "walking ATM" to "customer".... and I'd agree with that statement.


Pretty funny when people hire business men and then get mad when they behave like business men. If you don't think these boys see you as a customer, you're a fool.

Let me get one thing straight here....

Do some here call them "prostitutes" in an attempt to demean them or their profession? Because if you are trying to... It doesn't work. YOU are the CUSTOMER of a prostitute. That places you about 10 rungs LOWER on your make-believe Class scale. You are beneath a prostitute. You are the guy who couldn't even be a prostitute if you tried. You are the guy so pathetic that you have to PAY prostitutes to hang out with you... and to pretend that they like you!

So if you think prostitutes are trash.... YOU are the maggot that EATS the trash. And, by the way, I have no respect for you either.

Latin, your attitude of contempt comes through. Your writing is so transparent. I would never come back to ask for more from you either. I would pray to Buddha that I'd never see you ( or anyone like you ) ever again as long as I lived. Is it such a surprise that when you mistreat a human being.... they don't come back to see you ever again. Surprise surprise. Eureka. What a brilliant discovery. And what brilliant logic. Mistreat everyone, and NO ONE will ever come back to bother you ever again. What a miserable lonely person you must be. I hope I meet you some day, so I know to avoid you like the plague too.

And saying that they see us as "walking ATMs"? Really. What a stupid thing to say. They see you as CUSTOMERS. By the way, do you know what they call you.... when talking with each other....? Yep. You guessed it. They call you a CUSTOMER. And do you know why....? Because that's exactly what you ARE to them. Get Over It!

You wanna see them as pieces of meat to consume and throw out with the trash.... And you're offended that they see you as a paying customer.... from whom they make a living.


Delusional. So many falang as absolutely freaking Delusional.

"I'm 71 years old and 300 pounds overweight. He's 19 years old and hot as hell. I paid him for sex. But I can't figure out why he's not in love with me. I can't figure out why he treats me like I'm just a customer."

Ummmmm. Because you ARE his customer. Wake up!

So haggle over that $3 difference all you want. Make it a rule to always complain about their performance no matter how good it was, "to keep them in their place". Even be mean and get off being sadistic and by humiliating them, etc.

But you get back what you put out there.... So don't be surprised when you are a caustic toxic piece of trash.... Don't be surprised at what will eventually come back to bite YOU in the ass. And it will. Thai boys are not the only humans who believe in karma.

One day someone is going to really "put you in your place". And somehow I think no one will feel sorry for you. In fact, I hear lots of standing applause.... for you getting back what you deserve.

No one should be subjected to abuse and humiliation. If I were a business boy, and if I were a vengeful person, I can't even SAY what I'd do to anyone who even tried... to treat me that way.

I'm not a vengeful person, however, because I know the truth. The truth is.... Your miserable life is your own "punishment". So I might be one of the only people who actually will, and do, feel sorry for you.

Something tells me, when you're back at your beach chair, you're never surrounded by friends and lovers. And never will be. Ever. In your Lifetime.

@cdnmatt The LTV ( lifetime value ) of you as a customer to a bar boy or a beach boy.... is about two hours.... or as long as I can still see the whites of your eyes. Most customers want "new meat" constantly --- as Latin puts it, just like changing his bed linen. So it should surprise no one that your LTV value as a customer is as shortlived as that beer in your hand.

Oh, and I just found someone who meets, and exceeds, all the qualifications of your "high bar". I met him on my fourth day there. In fact, I'd say he's the second one I met that would meet your "high bar"... in only four days.

People, You GET what you put out there.

Put out, "greedy selfish me me me, what can you do for me.... for less..." ......and that's what you get back!

Put out there an energy of unconditional love.... and that's what you get back.

That is the truth.

[lukylok]

I don't share Latin's feelings at all but I just have to confirm that the two brothers of the B Boys are also part of the show of Boysland. And they are VERY erotic !

[latintopxxx]

...be observant...look at the tats...and no its not an asian joke but the two look alike..like brothers or something.....and one IS available....

[christianpfc]

So to everyone >>> haggle over the price, it is a business.
I think there are limits. I assume most Farang and most Thai boys know the going rates (those who don't know can read it in the internet or ask someone). I do not like to discuss payment upfront, it's a turn off for me. I pay the going rate (for gogo bars that would be 1000 to 1500 for short time in BKK or 1500 to 2000 for long time in Bangkok and 1000 for short time in Pattaya or 1500 for long time in Pattaya, your numbers may vary) and everyone is happy to see me again.

I had one case, a boy at ICK Ramkhamhaeng, I didn't know there were moneyboys there, but someone pointed out to me that he is available. We chatted and he said that he could go with me for 2500 Baht. I looked at him "can you repeat", whereupon he qouted 2000 Baht, again I said nothing, then he said 1800 Baht, then his phone rang and the call required all his attention, so I dropped the subject. That was one offer that was beyond haggling. Had he quoted a reasonable number, we might have gotten a deal.


[Exactly. It is all just a game - you play your part and the boy plays his. It's mostly all fake. But, if you both play your cards right, you can both be winners. There doesn't have to be a loser.
I see it the same way. He can try and either get some more out of me or not. In some cases I give extra money, in others not, depending on various circumstances.

Gay Romeo has lots of boys available. Most seem very much prepared to accept a lot less than 1000. One, the other day, in whom I had no interest, repeatedly messaged me with each quote lower than the one before. At 400 with my reply being, 'Sorry, no' ,as it had been each time, he gave up. So the market price for his services appears to be 400 baht. Just what am I missing here?
I never had a boy on gayromeo messaging me with how much he wants. :crybaby: Or does this mean those who write to me want to go with me for free? :dontknow:
At Saranrom park, the starting offer is 500 (I don't know if that is negotiable, I never tried as there is no need to.)


Do you think he's gonna meet? I don't think so....... :tongue3:
I am in favor of verifying the veracity of some member's (latintopxxx and cdnmatt come to mind) reports, or at least verify they were in Thailand on a given date. The easiest way would be by meeting someone about whose identity there is no doubt (e.g. respected expats or bar owner or forum owners). Actually, it should be Neal's task to protect gullible members like me from fictitious reports!

[joe552]

Actually, it should be Neal's task to protect gullible members like me from fictitious reports!

I totally agree - now that Neal has given up running the bar, he has the time to make sure gullible member of the forum are protected. How about it, Neal? :dontknow:

Alternatively, gullible members of the forum might learn how to "protect" themselves.

yes Neal, do you hear that ! So, after much consideration and discussion on everyone's part plus a bit of all round arguing and a few differing views of opinion in various posts we've all now agreed to come to the opinion that basically it's all YOUR fault !!! What is I'm not quite sure exactly, but whatever it is it's most definitely all down to YOU ! Shame on you ! :-) And as for not protecting us, well personally I don't know how you sleep at night leaving us mere mortals all vulnerable and unprotected like this, actually what with you being an American and all I'm thinking there may well be a class action law suit in here somewhere for us all against you personally for your not taking reasonable steps to protect us from such posts that us gullible people may fall victim too - so basically, there you go, it's ALL YOUR fault, we're not to blame in any way and we may just see you in court, there, i hope you're HAPPY now !!

Actually Neal, there's a few other things that didn't go quite to plan for me this week in my life in general so I was wondering would it be ok if I was to blame few things on you too ? Just to get them out of the way you understand ? As basically if I don't get to blame "somebody" then god forbid but `"I" actually may end up having to take the blame for these matters myself and of course that would never do, so if you don't mind I'll just fire a quick list together and email them over to you and if you would be good enough to sign that, taking responsibility for basically everything, that would be much appreciated.

Many thanks.

[bruce_nyc]

LOL

Add one more vote for requiring Neal to meet every single board member personally.

I'm sure he would love that job.

ROFL

[bruce_nyc]

Methinks your terminology is too vague.

Many things are completely relative...

Young means anyone younger than you.
Old means anyone older than you.
Poor means anyone with less money than you.
Rich means anyone with more money than you.

I am close friends with people who manage on $300 or less a month income... and with people who live on $3000 a month income, and with people who live on $30,000 a month income, and a few who get by on $300,000 a month, and at least a couple who cope with $3,000,000 a month income.

It's all relative. So what's your point?

I also don't understand your point about the time of postings. at 5:50pm here in New York, it's 4:50am in Thailand.

Again, what's your point? ?

_______

Oops. The message I was replying to has disappeared.

[pong]

[Now I am wondering: does he consider me stupid, having short memory, or a good heart?
all 3, schatzi. But more likely none.
Thanks newalaan, for your splendid reaction. I do favour Latintop-esp. since Ive also visited his Catalan hometurf a few weeks ago. Wish he posted more useful info about his many trips elsewhre, ut can understand that noone wants to get flamed so predictably and so boringly everytime the sameway as he gets.
I think its time to once discuss another strange social fenomenon: place taking. Many here seem to take in the position to defend anything bar/offboys do or to at least give explanations for it all ''so that it looks at least acceptable''. Same thing one often see with train-jehova's who always defend and tell that trains are always better as.... for whatever reason and get upset when you simply point out the negative side of things. IMHO there is not a single thing on earth that not has both good+bad sides. And to form a balanced opinion you need to get both. But then for many years i had a job where I always had to ask about ''so what did you then?''.

[peeseua]

I strongly suspect that our OP Latinwhathisname is merely winding everyone up with his control-fantasies because surely, considering how efficient the boy-grapevine is regarding farang who tip generously or DON'T, you'd have thought by now that most of them know to avoid him whenever they see him anywhere.

As he's said that he's a veteran of the local Bahtboi scene, I seriously doubt that he hasn't been granted his own place in the local Hall of Fame by the boys already...unless -

a.there are so many boys in Pattaya or such a constant stream of newcomers that most don't know about him yet

or

b.the boys point newcomers in his direction as a soort of newbie initiation ritual a la frat hazing?

[a447]

peesuea wrote:
considering how efficient the boy-grapevine is regarding farang who tip generously or DON'T, you'd have thought by now that most of them know to avoid him whenever they see him anywhere.

Yes, that has been mentioned many times over the years.
Other posters, including myself, have also wondered why he hasn't ended up with a knife in his back, especially as he has posted about humiliating East European rent boys he's picked up at the station.

[Oliver]

In our dealings with each other, commercial or otherwise, remember Proverbs;"as ye sow, so shall ye reap"......a concept that Buddhists also accept.

....But, if it's all right with you - can we just skip over Leviticus Ch 18 & 20?

:occasion9:

PS Methinks Latintopxxx has a lot of reaping to do.

Well if we're having the good sense to ignore that then I hope trust that we're having the good sense to ignore the rest where for example in Lev. 25:44 it states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations, or that one may sell their own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), or allow child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16) not forgetting the good old bashing of babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9) or about stoning rape victims to death for the crime of not crying out for help while they were being raped (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB) - so, no Scots, I wouldn't worry too much about lying with men etc as I think in the bigger scheme of things our choices are just small fry compared to some of the stuff that that strange book has going on in it :-)

[christianpfc]

NIrish Guy, I was serious.


LOL

Add one more vote for requiring Neal to meet every single board member personally.

I'm sure he would love that job.

ROFL

You don't have to go that far, but there must be ways to confirm if someone was in Thailand at the time he claimed (e.g. by checking from where he posted on this board) (this applies only to very few who post controversial stuff and are believed to be trolls by others and accused of inaccurate (read: false or invented) reports). Then they could simply be banned from this board (not for posting controversial stuff, but for lying).


there are so many boys in Pattaya or such a constant stream of newcomers that most don't know about him yet

An aquaintance (different from a friend!) of mine who lives in Bangkok has an behaviour that is unacceptable anywhere in the world, and who is banned from most places in his area and in Silom. Nonetheless, he regularly manages to lure Thai boys into his room, each of them only once I assume.

[Neal]

I think some of you guys are losing brain cells by the bucket loads. This is an annonymous board and I don't have the desire to look for and search out members. :hah:

And Christian I was being flippant - and not necessarily at your comments in particular just towards the whole Neal looking after us idea in general, I don't disagree with you that it would be better if we could dispense with the tiresome posts from the mentally unbalanced who sit on boards such as this posting simply to troll or worse to feed their own sexual fetishes, however this is the Internet and there will always such strange creatures about and it's fairly impossible to stop such juvenile behaviour.

However I agree that it would be better if such weirdos didn't bother posting their crazy stuff - OR - of they chose to then perhaps AT LEAST stand over it by posting something that at least gives them a bonefide so we can at least treat their words as genuine posts from "real" people, who yes some may disagree with but at least that would be a start as opposed to having to deal with either mental cases or people just "playing" with the rest of us to pass their time in some twisted way as that surely is not what this board at least is all about.

But in conclusion I don't think we can expect Neal or anyone one person to take responsibility in weeding out such strange people - on that note Latin - and beachy ( who is no doubt still here isn't he PONG :-) and the other few questionable multiple profilers amongst us perhaps you'd maybe like to take this opportunity to declare just for the record if your posts using the profile names mentioned are indeed genuine or are actually just some fabrication posted for your own strange assumement - nows as good a time to fess up as any I guess - or likewise state your case once and for all that you are 100% genuine and wish to be taken as such ? :-)

[newalaan]

I don't disagree with you that it would be better if we could dispense with the tiresome posts from the mentally unbalanced who sit on boards such as this posting simply to troll or worse to feed their own sexual fetishes, however this is the Internet and there will always such strange creatures about and it's fairly impossible to stop such juvenile behaviour. However I agree that it would be better if such weirdos didn't bother posting their crazy stuff
In your opinion 'they' are weirdos or mentally unbalanced, but I'm afraid that is the mirror of REAL LIFE, why would you want a forum not to reflect reality, why would you want it cleansed of those you simply dont agree with, yes wouldn't it be great just to 'dispense' with someone whose attitude you dont like so that all we are left with is only the posts and/or attitudes YOU (or whoever) deem as being 'acceptable' to all. You have the same power as anyone here simply to pass-by the posts or posters whom you want cleansed out of the forum. However many of us want and are happy with a forum warts and all, and then decide for ourselves what we want to see, read or believe, that is reflection of life, not some censored, banned, deleted society which simply gets rid of those people you dislike, dont believe, or regard as posting 'crazy stuff'. For goodness sake it's an anonymous, cyberpsace forum, with all interaction in words, if you cant deal with that without having to 'dispense' with posts you simply dont agree with there isn't alot of hope for freedom of speech and tolerence in the wider world is there? Something denied to many gays in certain countries.


OR - of they chose to then perhaps AT LEAST stand over it by posting something that at least gives them a bonefide so we can at least treat their words as genuine posts from "real" people, who yes some may disagree with but at least that would be a start as opposed to having to deal with either mental cases or people just "playing" with the rest of us to pass their time in some twisted way as that surely is not what this board at least is all about. Weeding out such strange people - on that note Latin - and beachy ( who is no doubt still here isn't he PONG :-) and the other few questionable multiple profilers amongst us perhaps you'd maybe like to take this opportunity to declare just for the record if your posts using the profile names mentioned are indeed genuine or are actually just some fabrication posted for your own strange assumement - nows as good a time to fess up as any I guess - or likewise state your case once and for all that you are 100% genuine and wish to be taken as such ? :-)

In what way do you have to 'deal' with mental cases here? If you consider a poster to be a mental case why do you put yourself through such anguish when all you need to do is ignore them? Nirish you only get 'played with' if you let yourself get suckered in and then you've only yourself to blame if you feel 'played with'. If you REALLY believe Latinpoxx (and others) to be a complete fake then why do you constantly refer to him in posts and respond to his posts as you would someone you feel to be genuine. A447 and youself surely would not respond to a poster you really thought was not genuine, that would be a bit.......wouldn't it?



In our dealings with each other, commercial or otherwise, remember Proverbs;"as ye sow, so shall ye reap"......a concept that Buddhists also accept.
I am not Buddhist but I sincerely hope that Proverb is what happens in the end.



Oops. The message I was replying to has disappeared.
Yes, 'disappearing' posts do upset the full understanding and flow of a thread.

Actually Newalan for once it appears we're in agreement as my previous post - which was actually in response to Christianpfc mentioning about perhaps members could or should be "protected" from dubious posts etc, the basic tenor of my reply to him fairly clearly stated just what you are saying quite clearly I thought i.e. that as you have already said "hey it's the Internet and you're always going to get people posting using multiple profiles" etc - as to whether I think that's a bit nuts or not, yes absolutely I do - especially on an easy going non political type board such as this where speaking personally I can see absolutely no need for it and generally people in society who have multiple personalities and actually post subjects and then post other profiles to disagree with themselves have in my mind either too much time on their hands or are simply "playing" with the other members of that board for their own amusement or are of course raving loonies - or probably a mix of all three ! :).

Also I did state in my previous post along the lines of "hell even that would be alright but they really should just be straight up about what they are doing so as to avoid wasting others time perhaps"- but you are also correct that the simple answer is not to "bite" in the first place and simply not to reply to those particular posts and that's something personally I'm going to try harder to do in future, but that again it brings me back to my point that it makes an innocent board such as this, where we;re all just here for a bot of light hearted fun and to share some stories about Thailand and the likes that my god surely there shouldn't then be any need to even doubt people's motives or word about what they post HERE on this type of board in the first place as if that does happen then it just makes you distrust a lot of what you read on here which is all a bit sad and unnecessary and ( for me anyway) devalues the purpose and enjoyment of the board a bit all over some eejit sitting getting off on their abuse fantasies or whatever it is they are doing - especially when they are lying about that when asked so it turn also in my view trying to make mugs out of us ALL by doing such things, it's all just a bit.....unnecessary, but as I said I accept it's the internet and these things happen - doesn't mean I have to sit silently and not say "Balls to that craziness" if I chose sometimes, as you read perhaps in my previous post I fully accept this is the Internet and these things happen, but it doesn't mean it's a good thing for the board in general necessarily as it simply breeds mistrust and might tend to devalue some of what we all read on here - IMHO of course.

[Neal]

What I do not approve of is multiple handles and as you know there are some, probably more than even I realize. First you have one obvious one who pretends he cannot understand how to spell English that continues to spell things incorrectly and put dashes and commas and two CApitals and all th-at stupid shit who is only the remake of one that used to flood this and other boards that thinks he is so cunning that no one can put 2 and 2 together. Why he just does not post under his old name is beyond me.

Then you have the ones who insesintantly love to fight. Well starting disagreemnts is totaslly acceptable. Trying to stomp a person into the floor boards is not and if you are saying that this is your right to read posts on shit sex, pedophilia and what they like to do as in making the boys they pick up being their submissive slaves and how they treat them, well sorry, this board changed and does not allow that since a year ago.

In many cases you are absolutely right and we do not get in the way at all of what got posted on the board and what you can read BUT there is a limit AND we are not going to dispute with third parties (not the poster) about what got deleted and why and that it is not our right. You have no idea of what or why something got deleted and as someone else is not the poster I don't feel I owe outside people an explanation. I also don't feel that I need to get into a public lynching of moderation policies.
Should you have a problem with moderation policies you are more than welcome to post it one time in the Rules & Guidelines Forum and then follow up by PM. Those were the rules you agreed to when yu joined this forum. I did not make up those rules as you were told from day 1. the rules are simple and with some hateful people they feel that they can abuse these rules as much as they wish and that is their right because it is a forum. No it isn't. Just post to each other and have a great time and leave me and the moderators out of your discussions unless it is a complaint that follows the proper proceedure. I really assure you I will look into and respond to any grievance and keep following up on it until both are satisfied but please don't make demands. I don't look pretty when I get hateful demanding posts or PMs.

It's really not a freedom of speech or censorship issue, just several/many readers who are bored with some of the more prolific or contentious posters. It's even rumored that Latin is the alter ego of Beachy. OK, let him/them post. The Ignore feature is easy to activate.

[bruce_nyc]

What you guys are describing is the classic Definition of trolling. It's simply baiting people to respond emotionally.... And continuing to do so just for the sport of it.

This is probably the oldest problem, And has existed since The first internet forum.

The most Obvious cases can be filtered and moderated, but the sly clever ones.... There's probably no way to completely eliminate... short of actually meeting each personin real life.

Like STDs ...... Sadly, It's simply 1 of the unfortunate downsides of online social intercourse.

[a447]

newalaan wrote:
A447 ........ surely would not respond to a poster you really thought was not genuine, that would be a bit.......wouldn't it?

No, it wouldn't.
You've totally missed the point. Again.

I don't comment on, or reply to, the contents of Latin's posts; I comment only on their veracity. I've stated before that I do not believe he does what he says he does, so he can post his fantasies as many times as he wants. I just wish he would move on and come up with some new topics or discussion points, rather than just try to wind up new members of the forum who are unaware of his history on this board. And also come up with the truth in every post.

I do not believe posters should necessarily be banned for what they post; they should be banned if they are caught out lying. If you get caught out once, all subsequent posts then become suspect.


NIrish Guy wrote:
I can see absolutely no need for it and generally people in society who have multiple personalities and actually post subjects and then post other profiles to disagree with themselves have in my mind either too much time on their hands or are simply "playing" with the other members of that board

Yes.


an innocent board such as this, where we;re all just here for a bot of light hearted fun and to share some stories about Thailand and the likes that my god surely there shouldn't then be any need to even doubt people's motives or word about what they post HERE on this type of board in the first place

Yes.


it simply breeds mistrust and might tend to devalue some of what we all read on here

And yes.

[Neal]

Just so you all know I don't just ban people. I get those requests all the time and no I just don't do it. I probably give out a warning once every 2 months. I only delete a PORTION of a post when it is outright argumentative and it is going on too long or has to do with pedopilia,, scat, and listening to the graphic stories of what one person enjpys doing to his supposed subjects. As stated before I also like to moderate and don't appreciate getting attacked and challenged when a necessary edit is implemented. I can be totally calm when the poster requests an explanation but to start defending myself everywhere on open board will lead to a dead end for anyone but the poster. As far as multiple handles we have discussed before my reasoning behind my 2 handles but lately after the stroke I can't seem to get things right and keep my personal business from board business so at this junction I am also deleting Justme so I can try and think correctly. As far as other people? Well I don't go chasing to try and look for multiple handles unless someone becomes obvious and is doing so for malicious reasons. Even our dear old board flooder has not been banned. As always, I have said he does give very informative and helpful info but loves this game of all sorts of handles. Wish one day he would go back to his old handle and stop all this crap. :sign5:

[latintopxxx]

Guess there are many definitions of what is meant by "real"but I must be real if I'm typing replies based on feedback. Don't think they've developed a bot quite capable of that. As for what if I'm real in that do you believe I do what i claim to do...as the commercial boys say.."thats up to you"!
My original post was just an observation that being nice in this case back fired.
Being pleasant, smiley, courteous..agreeing to the price...no negotiation...saying thank you and waving good bye...did not work.
Not a question of up selling as has been mentioned..i wasn' t offered anything extra (except in the one case where I suggested a trade)...the cheeky boys came back hours later or the next day...invited themselves onto my lounger...cheeky plebs...and proceed by means of sob stories an attempt to get extra cash out of me.
As for all the biblical quotes...you guys sound like that lot that stand outside US soldiers funerals with placards condemning queers and faggots....shame on you!! might have worked except I have a very high level of skepticism where religion (of any sort) is involved...fat lot of good it did to all the Buddhists when the khumer Rouge came along...
Based on some of your feedback...it reminds me of another nonreligious saying...people in glass houses...you all know how that one ends!!

[bruce_nyc]

being nice in this case back fired.

I still don't get this logic.

You got exactly what you wanted. The performance was excellent, you said so yourself. Yet you consider the fact that they came back and asked for more..... and you said NO.... to be, "back fired". Are you so incapable to say "No" that it was that much of a burden or inconvenience to you? If you are so bold and brazen and caustic.... as you claim to be.... I cannot understand how simply saying "No" to a boy asking for a handout could cause you so much trauma that you consider the entire strategy to have... "back fired".

Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

[latintopxxx]

Well in case you hadn't noticed i'm selfish...especially where my personal time is concerned..these guys are NOT my friends..I merely engaged them for a short while...doesn't give them the right to pester me...bad enough I have to fend off the multiple beach vendors (who by the way I'm always nice to because they have in my opinion a difficult life but are doing their best to earn a honest living....and at times provide entertainment..iiiice... creeeam..ka...anyone!!) ...let alone these free loaders...if i wanted company i would engage them for the day.
When I treat them in my usual manner they realize that I'm not easy pickings and have never come back with sob stories...after a while I had to go look in a mirror and check if I had stupid printed across my forehead.
And I didn't claim to be traumatized 9 would take a lot more..like a katoey with a dildo) , in my original post I merely mentioned that being nice to a certain sub section of the population has unintended consequences...thats all...i apologize profusely if i gave you the wrong impression.

[bruce_nyc]

And what --- exactly --- is it that you hope to achieve by sharing this learning roexperience with all if us?

Do you hope for sympathy from us?

Do you hope to change our views.... so that we might become more caustic, mean, selfish, toxic, etc...?

What exactly are you trying to achieve by sharing this Eureka moment with all of us?

.. a certain sub section of the population...

Oh, the irony!

[bruce_nyc]

If, as you say...


a certain sub section of the population

are....


free loaders...

Why do you have anything to do with them at all....?

Why don't you simply avoid them like the plague and be done with it?

It is because YOU are actually the one who is there specifically to USE them....?

And you're not happy unless you are getting MORE than what you're paying for.... and paying LESS than what their labor is worth....?

WHO is the free loader in this picture.

[newalaan]

Why do you have anything to do with them at all....?Why don't you simply avoid them like the plague and be done with it?It is because YOU are actually the one who is there specifically to USE them....?And you're not happy unless you are getting MORE than what you're paying for.... and paying LESS than what their labor is worth....?WHO is the free loader in this picture
Bruce_nyc, i have managed to keep a lid (so far) on 'commenting' with regards to your newbie naivety with Thailand and Latinpoxxx, as you seem to be a decent and fair minded individual, suffice to say you are allowing yourself to be 'sucked in' to his spiral of using you (and others)as a stooge so he can wind you and others up even more. He just loves negative reaction to his posts, he loves anger in his direction, he feeds off it and 'gets off' every time you show your disgust/shock/annoyance. He's probably gone through a whole box of tissues on this thread alone! However 'it's up to you'; a term you may well have heard during your visit.

But's that not to say his wind-up posts are based on untruths or are not genuine, i'm sure they are genuine, in fact that is the saddest part, but they are also very informative, and its always good/doesn't do any harm to have an extreme example of humanity to remind us/be aware that life out there is not always a bed of roses. My opinion only of course.

[bruce_nyc]

@newalaan I know. I agree 100%. I just want to play along and see if he can come up with the tiniest shred of logic..... as to why he posts this drivel.

[newalaan]

as to why he posts this drivel.
But that's the point bruce_nyc, it's not drivel. You like others let your dislike/hate of what/how he posts cloud your judgement on the content. He has every right to make comments about his experiences just as you are about your 'Baby' etc.. inconsequential to some. interesting to others. Over the piece I find his posts informative and interesting from the standpoint that you learn through him (and others) what some boys have to put up with. But you are being duped by the language he uses. The greater part of his antics are no different to most here, only the attitude and language used are really different.

One time i remember him describing offing a boy and "riding him like a pony" what he will have done is simply fuck the boy, maybe enthusiastically, are you not capable of enthusiastic sex? but the difference is his 'button pushing' words like 'pony' likening the boy to an animal, thats what annoys folks here, his attitude, but basically he had sex with the boy, he rode him, he paid him what had been agreed. End of. Throw in 'like a pony' and you get a negative reaction....right up his street.The boy probably didn't even give the 'experience' a second thought, just another 'enthusiastic' fuck with a slighly demanding customer. All part of the job.

Just because it doesn't tie in with YOUR opinion or the way you conduct yourself doesn't mean it is not relevant or a real part of life which goes on out there, it is...Latinpoxxx is the evidence.

[bruce_nyc]

I understand all that. No problem. He certainly has a right to his views, etc. And I understand about his winding up / trolling antics too.

I'm just asking.... What is the point he's trying to make with this particular post.

Latin, why are you sharing this story of your "being nice" and having that strategy "back fire"?

Are you only trying to make some sort of a statement about how horrible these boys are? Or... Are you trying to convince all of us that we should behave like you do? Or.... Did you have some other purpose in mind for posting this little story?

[latintopxxx]

i suggest you discuss it with your therapist during your weekly appointment...analyse it my dear...

My therapist advises that it's a classic case of psychotic self-justificiation.

I quote him directly :

Latintopxxx knows he's a cunt - but in rare moments of lucidity he feels remorse.
So, in order to feel less cunt-like he manufactures a delusion about how, when he once tried to be nice, boys took advantage of his fairness/generosity.
Ergo he is justified in continuing to operate on his usual level of cuntiness.
The delusion is self-perpetuating to such an extent that, in time, Latintopxxx will come to believe it actually happened.
The cunt!

As a moderator I would not personally use such language - but when I am relaying a professional opinion I feel it's best to quote directly from the horse's mouth so that there is no misunderstanding.
I regret I can not name names - the good Doctor knows far too much about me.

:occasion9:

[latintopxxx]

Just noticed you are a moderator...so you should know that I have one handle only... However back to the topic at hand...I don't suffer from remorse...I would have to believe I'm doing something wrong.
Generally I'm nice!! as in civil...
Avail myself of commercial boys to explore my "wild"side......but am not deaf and blind to suggestions...all the talk of treating them like gentlemen... worshiping the floor they walk on..well I tried and in my opinion the experience was annoying....annoying in that they take advantage of your goodwill and become over familiar...I dont really want to mix with or socialise with commercial boys....

..I don't suffer from remorse...I would have to believe I'm doing something wrong.....

Well, I will have to mention this to my therapist on my next visit to the Bungdit Din Clinic - but I'm sure he'll say that since it's all happening on a subconscious level you are not even aware of it.

:love4:

[latintopxxx]

OK!! Maybe it's my good Catholic upbringing...

Now we are getting to the bottom of it - as the bishop said to the altar-boy.

[latintopxxx]

...actually went to private Catholic schools...lusted after my teachers...but the opportunity never presented itself....but then looking at school photos i was one ugly kid...coke bottom photos...big knobbly knees......thank goodness I grew out of that....

Go on, dear - get it all out - purge yourself - you know you want to.

In nominet Patris, etя╗┐ Filli, et Spiritus Sancti

[bruce_nyc]

....annoying in that they take advantage of your goodwill and become over familiar...I dont really want to mix with or socialise with commercial boys....

Did they get "overly familiar" before, or during,..... you inserting your cock inside their ass....?

I think the world would be a better place if you did not mix with commercial boys.

Don't worry, people. I don't take this idiot seriously. His posts are annoying, but I don't believe a word he says.

His posts are, however, far more annoying than a commercial boy coming to me with a sob story and asking for money...

But, of course, he couldn't care less how much he annoys others ( us ). He only cares about how much the boys he pays for sex..... annoy him. What an idiot.... on so many levels.

[latintopxxx]

Unbelievable...not even sandy could keep you from bashing me.....you epitomise whats wrong with the US political system...people shouting past one another....no room allowed for dialogue.....

[latintopxxx]

..and if its so annoying....STOP reading....simple.....who made you king of the world...whats your middle name...stalin??

[newalaan]

Don't worry, people. I don't take this idiot seriously. His posts are annoying, but I don't believe a word he says.
Yet you reply to him directly as if you DO take this "idiot"(not a very nice way to refer to another poster by the way) seriously, like you DO believe a word he says, otherwise why would you waste your precious time?

If you regard him as an idiot who you don't take seriously and don't believe a word of yet still reply to him...how do you think you come across to readers?

[bruce_nyc]

@newalaan Good point. I'll stop now. :ink:

[PeterUK]

Avail myself of commercial boys to explore my "wild"side....

Nothing wrong with exploring your wild side IF you explain to the boys beforehand that that is what you intend to do and they are willing to proceed. Do you do that? I think you just negotiate the lowest price you can (which the boys probably wouldn't be agreeable to if they knew what was coming) and then spring your sadistic behaviour on them. It's no good you saying, as you often have, that they are free to end the session at any time. Once 'locked in' to a very unpleasant experience like that, most people wouldn't have the inner resources to call a halt - that is to say, they would be too damned scared. That is the true immorality of what you do - not the behaviour itself but the fact that it is inflicted on unsuspecting victims. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[bruce_nyc]

By the way, it doesn't really matter if Latin is a 100% fictional character... He is an excellent "talking point", for discussion, as an example of what NOT to do... and what NOT to be ....as a customer of commercial sex workers.

In a phrase, it's just like Google's corporate motto. "Don't be evil."

And if you believe you are somehow superior to them, just go home and leave them the hell alone! Because you are NOT!

In my view, it's not a matter of feeling "superior" - it's a simple matter of what a person subjectively believes is the right or wrong way to treat others, and as such that person has every right to post his individual view.

Whether Latintopxxx's exploits are real or ficticious or a mix of the two, is completely immaterial to me - I do not consider these (real or desired) activities a correct way to treat people who are probably not in a position to understand what is going to be involved.
Before anybody disputes this, just think of the language difficulties for a start - what's Thai or Romanian for "I want to utterly humiliate you - ride you like a pony and when I'm done throw the money at you on the floor"? I don't know and I'm sure Latintopxxx doesn't know either - so how could he communicate this to a Thai or Romanian boy whether in reality or in a fictitious scenario? The answer is, he can't - therefore even though money is being paid for sexual activity there cannot possibly be real consent.

The kind of activity he says he indulges in makes him (in my eyes) a pervert and even if he merely fantasises about treating boys like that then he's still a pervert, just a non-active one. I don't mean that pejoratively - I have certain fetishes which I consider mild and acceptable (white jockey shorts come to mind!), but which other people might consider perverted.

If the suggestion is that we turn a blind eye to and make no comment on something we consider to be perverted and unacceptable behaviour - lest someone else might think we are being "superior" then count me out, because we would then be advocating a doctrine of "Do What Thou Wilt" whereby anything goes irrespective of whether or not there is informed consent. We would then be in such company as Aleister Crowley, aka the Great Beast 666.

Feel free to disagree.

[gaymandenmark]

+1, I feel free to agree, thumbs up :laughing3:

It is indeed a sad and selfish world, when people think they can just behave like they want, and even humiliate other people, just because they have paid some small amount of money for it.
Let us hope it is just a fantasy.

[Neal]

:sign5: If he really did it which I doubt seriously he does, piss off the wrong boy and when he tells a cop that you threw the money on the floor with the King's picture on it, I will hope you will be out of Thailand before he comes to get you and throw you in jail. :idea1:

[christianpfc]

The kind of activity he says he indulges in makes him (in my eyes) a pervert and even if he merely fantasises about treating boys like that then he's still a pervert, just a non-active one.

For many straights, we are perverts. I think latintop is not more or less pervert than people who like body hair (yuck!).

I recently found a profile on gayromeo that would be a good match for latintop:


Online: Looking for top mouthfucker Who want to visit me in my Hotel now ?

European Bi man staying some nights in BKK.
Looking for real hard top enjoying to abuse me orally.

Looking for a top guy to meet.
I like to be abused orally. Down on my knees I want to get pissed in my mouth and want
you to fuck my mouth deep.
Nothing more than abusing me orally.
My fantasy is to get rapped orally and forced to be an oral slut.

No ass, not want to get sucked or wanked and not want to cum.

My dreams is to knee in front of 2 men who want to use my mouth.

There is someone for everyone!

I don't remember where I read this, but there was a man who hired prostitutes and paid her for watching TV while he was lying on the floor and she was holding the dog leash that lead to his collar. I can't see anything wrong with that.

And once we are at the subject of non-mainstream fetisches, here is another quote from gayromeo:


i'm into dirty(shit) sex. if you have similar interests, and would like to chat or meet, send me a message. i enjoy pants-shitting, enemas, laxatives, smearing, shit wanking, shit fucking, mutual dumping and shit/piss fun. if you do not share this fetish or find it offensive, sorry....move on. it's a free world and you do not need to waste your time or mine by sending a message.

And he has pictures, in case you have a poor imagination.

Oh Christian did you really HAVE to post that, I think I was sick a little bit in my mouth on reading that :-(

And as for the woman sitting watching TV and there being nothing wrong with that etc, I'll have you know there are a HUNDRED things wrong with that ! Mainly being about ANY woman sitting on her fat arse watching TV whilst there's cooking and cleaning and housework to be done, the lazy bitch ! he he this board is probably one of the few places I could get away with that without being taken to task for being sexist :-) and I AM joking before anyone starts :)

Well, I just think the argument that someone is not a pervert because someone else is a bigger pervert, is a bit shakey.

It's like saying Hitler was an all right geezer - because Stalin murdered more.

Of course, I know Christian would never dream of saying anything like that - it's just an example :evil4:



I think during WWII, Germany was the scientific, industrial, and military most advanced nation (only exception: the atom bomb) and would haven beaten every single other country, but not all of them together. .

[joe552]

well we have gotten away from latinpox' OP. I love the way conversations flow on the board. :occasion9:

It's not that far away - I'm reacting to Christian's defence of the OP.

It's a lot closer to the original topic than, say, the Luncheon Voucher chat elsewhere dear :sign5:

[gaymandenmark]

I have to say, that I am really dissapointed with you christian.

I think it is okay to have all kinds of sexual pleasures and to be kincky too

How I see it is that latin has a fetich to paying the least, for fucking the boys in a humilating way.

Why not just say, I want to fuck your ass as a goat and I dont care because you are in my power, and then I pay you accordingly (les than possible), and I want to throw you on the floor, are you into that christian?

[christianpfc]

I am not into that, but I am sure there are people who are (see qoute from gayromoe). Just because I'm not into it, I don't call it pervert (but off-mainstream).

The only problem I see is that Latintop probably cannot communicate his intentions to Thai boys and they enter the contract not knowing what will happen. This is where his actions cause harm to the boys and damage the reputation of Farang. Negotiating the lowest possible price and exploiting their distress is not my style, but he has a right to do so on an open market, one day latintop might get payback.

I am not into that, but I am sure there are people who are ... Just because I'm not into it, I don't call it pervert (but off-mainstream)...


pervert╦И/p╔Щrv╔Щrt/
NounтАГтАГ
A person whose sexual behavior is regarded as abnormal and unacceptable

per┬╖verse/p╔Щr╦Иv╔Щrs/
Adjective:
(of a person or their actions) Showing a deliberate and obstinate desire to behave in a way that is unreasonable or unacceptable
Contrary to the accepted or expected standard or practice.

I simply don't see why you object to my use of words like pervert/perverse/perverted in relation to Latintopxxx - look at the definitions - they seem to fit the situation perfectly, and I made it clear that I did not use the term as a pejorative.

:dontknow: :dontknow:

[christianpfc]

My mistake: pervert (noun or verb) and perverse (adjective), and I was not aware of the non-sexual meaning of perverse.

I thought there was a perjorative undertone, but without it's an appropriate choice of words (but still, I wouldn't use them in this context as I feel an undertone of mental illness in them).

[bruce_nyc]

And who among us doesn't have "an undertone of mental illness".... :nknw:

I am perfectly sane - and I have a discharge certificate from the Asylum to say so.