Boyztouristtown

[thaiguest]

Will someone get through to the rip-off gay venues that the tourist map has recently changed completely; the majority of tourists are now coming from China and India-all packaged and ushered for the benefit of a small few and not interested in places like Boyztown except as a geek location to be gazed at and photographed.
The main-stay of our valuable gay venues is now the resident expat customers and a much reduced number of cash strapped loyal tourists so will the bosses please bring their prices down to suit that reality. There's a late nite venue in Pattayaland attached to a go go bar wherein they charge 1500 baht for a bottle of hundred pipers and a joiner fee of 160 b if a boy sits at the table. There's a beer bar there charging twice as much for a beer as the lady bars charge the straights along the beach. Do they think the gay pockets are lined with gold or what? In fairness to Sunnee the bar owners there are making an effort in this regard witness Crazy Dragon for example. I would love to see a variety of gay locations survive but the owners seem to be hell bent on self destruction.

[arsenal]

I think I should point out that for a Chinese person, 1500 Baht for a bottle of whiskey is about half what he/she would have to pay in China. A decent buffet dinner will cost about 200 RMB (┬г20.00). Sex with a prostitute about 1000 RMB. So for a comfortably off Chinese visitor...Thailand is really really cheap. Oh yes...and the whiskey in China will be faked.

..Oh yes...and the whiskey in China will be faked.

As any Scot will tell you, ALL "whiskey" is essentially fake - wherever you buy it :evil4:

[Liamog]

As any Scot will tell you, ALL "whiskey" is essentially fake - wherever you buy it :evil4:

Raiding partiers have been sent out for less!!! Grrr :bootyshake:

[francois]

Scotch is "whisky" and Bourbon is "whiskey", yes?

[lukylok]

I think I should point out that for a Chinese person, 1500 Baht for a bottle of whiskey is about half what he/she would have to pay in China. A decent buffet dinner will cost about 200 RMB (┬г20.00). Sex with a prostitute about 1000 RMB. So for a comfortably off Chinese visitor...Thailand is really really cheap. Oh yes...and the whiskey in China will be faked.

And what would be the prices in any of the major western cities ? You won't get sex for 100┬г in London, nor in New York ! So Thailand is still cheap !

[Liamog]

Scotch is "whisky" and Bourbon is "whiskey", yes?

Irish is whiskey, Scotch is whisky. The rest, well ........who cares :nknw:

[joe552]

Making this Thailand related, there is of course Thai whisky, which is apparently popular amongst the lower classes of bar boys. :party

[gaymandenmark]

Joe, I dont think it is class related, but solely money related.
I could also argue that barboys by definition are from the lower classes, why else do they need to sell their bodies.
I know it's a terrible generalization. :happy7:

[lonelywombat]

Will someone get through to the rip-off gay venues that the tourist map has recently changed completely; the majority of tourists are now coming from China and India-all packaged and ushered for the benefit of a small few and not interested in places like Boyztown except as a geek location to be gazed at and photographed.
.

This has been mentioned many times. There are those who can recognize the target market and go out look for, promote to and arrange the trips.They are doing extremely well.

There are others who sit there and complain, but do nothing.

I have mentioned the Gay Thai massage parlours that feature Japanese and Chinese speakers .Move down Soi Twilight and they are mostly Chinese.

If I owned a place in Boyztown, Id employ Chinese speakers and have notices in both languages.

Not knew. Course not. Michael did this with Cockpit in the late 80's and early 90's. Nearly half of his show items in those days featured then Japanese numbers.

[stevehadders]

Well go to Prague - the drinks and boys will cost you considerably more, as in Budapest 9and the sun doesnt shine!). Paying for sex in Barcelona/Madrid about 100 Euros+ so still cheap in BT. Look at the business model - add the salaries/rent/tea money etc - if you can do it cheaper, go for it, but don't fancy your chances

[Neal]

I have always gotten a chuckle of all those people who suggest this and suggest that and give advise as to what they would do and are told that if they know so much they should buy a bar and yet, nobody does. Does that give you a little advice? :sign5: :occasion9:

[thaiguest]

Well go to Prague - the drinks and boys will cost you considerably more, as in Budapest 9and the sun doesnt shine!). Paying for sex in Barcelona/Madrid about 100 Euros+ so still cheap in BT. Look at the business model - add the salaries/rent/tea money etc - if you can do it cheaper, go for it, but don't fancy your chances
Been there, done that and still do. This corner of the forum is 'sawatdee gay Thailand' not 'sawatdee prague'.

[thaiguest]

Yes Boss, thank you Boss. Why open a bar when I can get such good value from those who have done it already?

[lonelywombat]

This was the opening sentence in the original post. It was pointing out that many many Chinese are visiting Thailand. Not Prague.

At least some gay venues in BKK are doing good business. Perhaps that is the reason some in Soi Twilight are still open.

[Patexpat]

One of the busiest bars in Pattaya is the Pattaya Beer Garden at the end of walking street. When the owner disclosed his business plans to me before opening it could have been described as very bold and different to the normal walking street one. Many existing bar owners thought he was crazy and doomed to failure. But not crazy, just a well thought out plan part of which was low drink prices. Now he is doing very very nicely thank you.

May be a gay entrepreneur is required to bring something equally innovative to the gay market?

[thaiguest]

And what would be the prices in any of the major western cities ? You won't get sex for 100┬г in London, nor in New York ! So Thailand is still cheap !

By the same token you won't get bars in London or NY paying staff $8 per day like they do here.

The model of Chinese tourism to Thailand as far as I can see is of the 'all-in package tour' kind. The clients are chaperoned all the time- passed from bus company to hotel to pre booked venues to guided walks through weird places with gays and ladyboys and back to hotel again and so on. I'm happy if Soi Twilight is getting a lot of affluent Chinese if that means keeping the venues open.

But back to the core issue and the burning question: WHY ARE STRAIGHTS SOLD A BOTTLE OF BEER FOR 50 b WHEN GAYS ARE ASKED TO PAY TWICE OR THREE TIMES MORE BY THEIR FRIENDLY BAR OWNERS?
I would like a logical answer to that and not a lot of information about the rich in China.

Talking about the Pattaya beer garden.....the other day i asked my Thai bf which was his fave place to eat when we in Pattaya and he said the beer garden.....so not just for farangs then ha ha

[Neal]

Thai guest, you just said you were getting such good value.
The thing you need to realize which has been discussed over and over until I can write out the thread by memory is that if you want to sit in an unairconditioned bar, usually outside on their terrace, and don't want go go boys and are happy with host boys, and you don't want to watch a show which is where most of the price of a drink goes. then the answer is very simple! Go to those types of bars and you won't pay a high price. But if you want those things, you pay for it.

[thaiguest]

It seems that throwing irony into sawatdee forum is like throwing pearls to swine.
Customers can go to the unmentionable other place in Pattaya (sounds like the sun and ee) and in a go go bar get a beer for 99 baht.
I'm prepared to meet y'all in the lady bar in Jomtien Complex tomorrow at 8pm... it's next door to 'Two Donnas' lady bar. There I can buy a regular beer for 45 baht and double up with a Brooklyn standard hotdog for another 40 baht.
I will have to blend in, but the gum- chewing falang with the crumpled T-shirt, is me and I'll be swigging the 45 baht beer to my lips from the bottle- no glass. If y'all be late then it's probably because your flights take 14 hours or more.

[egel]

There's a late nite venue in Pattayaland attached to a go go bar wherein they charge 1500 baht for a bottle of hundred pipers and a joiner fee of 160 b if a boy sits at the table.

Name and shame that bar.

I know of NO bars in Pattaya, or BKK, that charge a joiners fee for a boy to sit at a table.

Name please.

Egel

PS. Boss, have you heard of this?

[gaymandenmark]

I must say, when I am in Pattaya, I seldom go to Boyzztown anymore.
I understand that you have to pay more if you go into a gogo and showbar. But let us see, even Panorama, which was my waterhol before, is now a rip-of.
I understand the problems that we are in bad time economical, both owners, the customers and the boys, but to charge crazy prises, maybe double from what you can get just around the corner or in Sunee, is in my view plain stupied.
Before I could be in BT for all the evening and night, now it is one or two drinks and then I am gone.
Well if it was as in old times with a bustling and funny crowd, I would say, yes I will pay more for the fun, but the last two times I was in BT it was just boring with very few customers and very few gay guys. I am not into straight guys plaing gays. Just not my style.

[Neal]

I believe I had once a long while back heard that there was a bar that charged for either sitting with a boy or maybe it was going upstairs with a boy. It was many moths ago and I don't remember what the outcome of the roumour was but I can assure you even if it was true that it was a single place. I have never heard of a bar doing this and yes I am sure if it is happening, all the members would like to know where.

The customer is required to buy the boy drinks while he sits with the boy. Finished with the drink or drinks, well it's time the boy gets back on the stage where he is paid to be whether the customer tells him that he will get a bigger tip for staying next to him. The boy is paid a salary by the bar to dance and be available for an off. If the customer is buying him drinks, well the bar is making money from him sitting there. If the customer stops, well the boy needs to be offed or back on stage.

[Patexpat]

I find the assertion that girly bars and clubs are 'always' cheaper than their gay equivalent somewhat amusing and well, wrong .... being in a privileged position of actually programming prices in to computer systems for many clients, I can assure everyone there are many bars and clubs on walking street where the prices are breath-takingly high .... but at lot at the budget end too (but not on Walking St).

Horses for courses ... as I have said else where.

Thaiguest, I don't see where you are going with this.

If you are prepared to sit in the lady beer bar in Jomtien to get a cheaper drink then that's what to do. Personally, I don't want to sit in a lady bar so I'm prepared to pay extra to sit in the gay gogo bar - you pay your money and take your choice. It's not about what's "fair", it's about what the market in a particular place will stand - and whether or not you are prepared to pay the asking price

Incidentally, last year I was persuaded by a bi friend to accompany him into Kitten Club/Obsessions in BT - and I can assure you that the drinks were anything but cheap in there - so when one compares like with like instead of comparing apples with oranges which is what you are doing, I don't think your generalisation is entirely accurate.

Where I do agree with you is that some venues are coming close to pricing themselves above what I'm prepared to pay - for me, close to 200B for a beer in BT is stretching it - unless something special is on offer. 250B for a beer in Soi Twilight would cause me not to stay in that bar for any length of time - and the reports of 220-250B for a beer in Chiang Mai only reinforces my determination to never go back there.

:occasion9:

[lukylok]

There is something which escapes me in this kind of discussion which is recurrent on the boards.

If a bar, or whatever, is too expensive for your liking, or sadly for your means, just ignore it and go somewhere else.
If the place has no customer, it will close. If it survives, then there are customers wanting to pay the asked prices, and the place is doing something right.

And if the place is doing something right, whining about the prices will not bring them down.

[Marsilius]

You hit the nail on the head - though, I suspect, in a different way from that intended.

Many bars are run by retirees, primarily as hobbies or vanity projects. For them mere economic survival is probably quite enough until they head off for the great Dontang Beach in the sky.

But if run so as to maximise profits - as someone not too far from the top of this board would doubtless confirm - their business plan ought to be to keep prices down: as a general principle, when the differential in prices is as great as it is on the Pattaya gay scene and all else being equal, (more customers x lower prices) will produce more profit than (fewer customers x higher prices).

[gaymandenmark]

.....just ignore it and go somewhere else.


Exactly, just what I am doing, I am voting with my feet :laughing3:

[a447]

WHY ARE STRAIGHTS SOLD A BOTTLE OF BEER FOR 50 b WHEN GAYS ARE ASKED TO PAY TWICE OR THREE TIMES MORE BY THEIR FRIENDLY BAR OWNERS?


Isn't it just a simple case of supply and demand? Aren't there more straight customers than gay ones? If you have more customers and a good turnover each night, then you can charge lower prices.

That must be the case in Chiang Mai where drink prices are so high. In the area where I am staying there are only 4 bars, and only one - Adam's Apple- is a gogo bar.

..Aren't there more straight customers than gay ones?...

True, a447 - but there are also far more str8 bars - so it could equally be a case of more bars > greater competition > lower prices.

[arsenal]

Thanks to this and other boards one can find out exactly how much almost any gay bar charges for almost any drink. Therefore it seems contrary to go there and then complain about it.
Anyway...most of the bars make little or no money. So, the bar is actually subsidiing your drinking.

[joe552]

I wish they'd subsidise my drinking a bit more, so that I could visit more often. :occasion9:

Really, arsenal, to say bars are making little or no money is a crock of shit. If they're not making money, they close. Simples.

[Neal]

Joe, Arsenal is correct. The most of the bars here operate as a hobby for those who opened them.

Whether they ever intended it to be that way at the outset perhaps is a whole other question it seems ! :-( Although I'm not convinced that ALL bars full stop are losing money, I think some yes and some no, depending like all businesses on overheads, profit margins and how savvy the bar owner is perhaps.

[joe552]

well DaBoss I bow to your superior knowledge on this. but if they're losing money, how do they stay open? :dontknow:

You can keep a loss-making business open forever Joe - provided you have the necessary capital.

Some of the farang bar owners may have plenty of capital with limited ways and limited time to spend it in - if they enjoy having a bar as a hobby or vanity project and can operate on a break-even basis or finance any losses from the bar, then why wouldn't they do that?

I think any possible loss-making scenarios would mostly apply to the bars which feature gogo and shows and all the costs and kickbacks that go with that kind of operation.
IMHO you would have to be completely incompetent to make any significant losses in operating a small and simple beer/host bar.

I admit that I'm guessing/surmising most of the above - but I don't think I'll be too far off the mark in my comments.

:hello2:

Interesting scots I've been told the exact opposite that a beer bar is a sure way of losing money and a go go entertainment bar at least gave you half a chance at a break even/ small profit - and then in reverse have been told the exact opposite again from someone totally different, with both parties having sufficient knowledge of the facts as they know them to be able to give an educated opinion on the matter - so I guess until we run with my old time share 1000 quid buy a beer idea we'll all never know exactly for sure eh ;-)

[bucknaway]

The answer could be in the middle. Those who operate a money loser operate their business as a hobby. Those that are making money, operate their business to continue to be profitable. Often you can tell who is in the business to earn your patronage and who is in operation for the sport of it.

[arsenal]

A few of the gogo bars and a few of the beer bars make money. The rest don't.

When talking about beer bars making or losing money - it's necessary to remember that in many of them the owner lives on the premises therefore the value of that accomodation ought to be factored into any profit/loss account.
In such cases it ought not to be a simple "Money coming in versus Money going out" calculation.

I still suggest you have to be incompetent (in one way or another) to lose any substantial sums of money operating a smallish beer bar.
Incompetent practices might include choosing a location up a side street/dead end, having an obnoxious personality, having no sense of hygiene, opening and shutting as you feel like it, or (commonly) not even being there and leaving your staff to rip the arse out your business.
Provided you avoid those pitfalls it ought not to beyond the bounds of possibility to break even or make a profit, IMHO.

I tend to agree Scots and also think that most of the bars that you see closing etc are not closing simply due to loosing money but more other personal circumstances kicking in, whether that be the wife catching up with the owner after him disappearing with the life savings to start a new life for himself and his boy lol or perhaps ill health ( although I'm guessing the first example could well lead on to the second :-) and I think most bars ( as you said ) when you include the accommodation etc are just intended to wipe their face profit wise and most bar owners are just happy to be living there without draining whatever savings they might have - so it's right to say some / most bars probably aren't making any fortunes but f they're providing a living ( in the true sense of the word) then I'm guessing that enough for most and if they provide a profit then thats a bonus.

[markie1]

Thanks to this and other boards one can find out exactly how much almost any gay bar charges for almost any drink. Therefore it seems contrary to go there and then complain about it.
Anyway...most of the bars make little or no money. So, the bar is actually subsidiing your drinking.
I find it very difficult to understand how a go go bar no show and ones with ashow can charge the same price for drinks ,yes in boys town ,what are we paying the high prices for ,is it because we are gay ,and let's face it gay places always charge more for some reason ,maybe they think we are rich because we don't have families ,but it's always been that way ,I wll be honest I come to Thailand 3 times per year with my Thai partner and I can no longer afford these prices for drinks,,I spend most of our time in Jomtien and sunnie where you don't feel has though you are been ripped off.and sometimes in bars in walking street where they charge reasonable prices, I am sure that's why most bars Gogo,s in boys town are dead ,don't the owners realise. That customers will not pay these silly prices ,I was over 4 months ago the bars were dead ,I will be back in 10 days hoping to see more customers and better prices .

[lukylok]

and I can no longer afford these prices for drinks.

Sad but the real reason.
And it will be the case for more and more westerners.
Time to realise that our era is finished, and some other countries have far more money.
The white man is no more the ruler of the earth.

[aot871]

I have to agree with most of what has been said. Pattaya is no longer a place (if it has ever been) for the younger crowd, those with money, nowadays. The world has changed,most of the guys who now travel to thailand are on a much reduced income due to being on pensions and lower investment income than before and cannot afford to pay inflated prices for drink, They therefore tend not to visit boystown and use sunnie or jomtiem in the evening where drinks tend to be that much cheaper

[Neal]

They sure dont use Sunee! Ask or look around.

[arsenal]

Markie: 3 holidays a year to Thailand suggests the bread line is still some distance away for you. All those complaining about drink prices ignore that flights and hotels have gone up by a greater percent. If you can pay it to the airlines and hotels then why can't you pay it to the bars. Inflation is rampant all over the world.
Also, a gogo bar is not exactly a bar. It's closer to a club and so in that respect in most countries they would charge you to go in.
150 Baht for a drink for me, 150 Baht for a drink for a boy, 100 Baht tip for the boy. Total. 400 Baht or about ┬г8.00. Sounds like a good deal to me.

[Magnum]

I would even pay 500 B for a beer to visit a gogo bar. We don't have this in Germany and I didn't see this in any other country I've visited around the world.

[arsenal]

Magnum: Well said. If someones past or present life does not allow them to pay for the things they want then that it nobody's fault but their own.

[markie1]

Well times that by two is 16.00pounds a time to have a drink.
Well it used to be 3 Holidays per year when my partner lived in thailand ,now we are down to two per year ,,where do you get 150 Baht from ,most are between 150 to 200 baht a drink and thats Pataya ,I am not talking bangkok here at up to 250 a drink,so times those drink prices by two people ,because i always travel with my boyfriend,it works out bloody expencive.

Tell me what go go bar you are compareing to a club ,because most in boys town are dead boring ,apart from a couple that hold a show ,and occational othert fun nights .
And also tell me please why most of these bars i am talking about have no customers ,is it because the drink prices are so cheap.I have been coming to thailand for 10 years now ,i have seen a very big change in Gay bars ,prices paid for drinks,gay esablishments ripping the gay community off.
I can tell you now it might be ok for the likes of your self to pay these prices ,people who visit often,and people who live in pataya will not pay and visit these places ,I know that for a fact ,has i have many friends who have retired in pataya,They will support beer bars that charge reasonable rates for drinks,

[TravellerDave]

When I go into a Pattaya gay bar or gogo I dont go to enjoy a drink or socialise. I can do that cheaper and more pleasantly elsewhere. I go there for sexual purposes. Looking at attractive young guys and maybe paying the off fee so that i can have sex with him at my room. Paying for drinks at an inflated price and handing out tips is sort of an investment. If I buy two drinks for myself and and a couple of boy drinks plus a tip. Maybe close to 1000 baht and leave the bar alone and bored thats a poor investment. If Ive spent the same enjoyed myself and left with an attractive boy and have good sex thats a good investment. During my next trip Im hoping for more good experiences than poor !.
No doubt if I was an expat living in Pattaya on a limited income I would mostly avoid the bars and drink at home with booze from Tesco !. However I go for 3 weeks holiday and I want to enjoy myself during this period and money is not a big consideration. Bars love 2 week millionaires !.

[arsenal]

Markie: So you are paying for two people? Right there might be one problem for start. Secondly, if you are there with your boyfriend why are you buying the gogo bar boys drinks? And actually there are plenty of bars in BT where a beer cost me 150 Baht last Nov/Dec. So, the figure you are looking for is 300 Baht for two drinks or about ┬г6.00. Call the bank manager and re-mortgage the house.

Hey, some of the self-confessed "3 week big-shots" are being a little unfair on markie1 - he makes a valid point and he has made it clear throughout his posts that he is referring only to his own situation.

Sure, he could "suck it up", cut down his bar visits, sit at home, and not articulate his feelings on the matter - but, guess what - it's a discussion board!
Many people are having to make economies in the present situation - some are just not coming to Thailand at all, and others are modifying their spending - a blind man can see that.

I'm with markie on this one - at 250B a shot in a BKK gogo, I'll still go in - but it'll be 2 drinks maximum for me, boy drink and tip.
I don't like operating this way because I don't see the gogo bars as cock with booze , I see them as a bar with gogo boys - in other words my motivation to go in is for a drink (with a pleasant view), not to find a shag. If the drinks were not even cheap but just reasonable I'd stay longer. I can't be the only one who thinks so.

One more thing - whoever it was who said that expats will support a bar that gives good prices - my understanding is they don't - well not in Pattaya anyway - maybe in BKK I dunno.
My understanding, based on talking to bar owners, is that a large percentage of these "loyal expats" quibble about discounts on drinks, want to make side-arrangements with the boys to avoid off fees, and generally rip the arse out of any concessions they are given - to the extent that bar-owners just don't need the hassle.

[gaymandenmark]

I have been travelling to Thailand for 20 years, and I can only say, why is it so more expensive to stay in a gay place or go to a gay bar?

There is only one reason, because we gays are stupied and want to go to places where we feel some comfort.

It is the same all over the world, if you want to stay in a gay guesthouse/hotel, in Berlin, Amsterdam, Barcelon, or New Y. you pay much more than in a regular hotel.

But what I find funny, here in Copenhagen we have a strange and cheap gay bar, it is always very busy, and is the cheapest bar in the city.

I know you can not compare Copenhagen with Pattaya, but when I am in Bangkok, I always go to DJ where I can have anything for 100 Baht, even my thunderdrink, is it possible in Pattaya? not really.

[markie1]

Well there we are ,I totally agree with all you said ,and things have changed over the years regarding gays and Excepting them in to society,we just dont need to mingle in gay bars all the time we can just mingle in any bar Straight or gay , but you are right on gay prices ,we have always been ripped in in gay venues
.
And if DJ Station can give you 2 free drinks for a entrance fee of 200 baht , then why can not any one else do the same .

[arsenal]

Ok. Slightly different but still related. Gay people have always paid more for so called package holidays due to the single supplement. They continued to do this despite the growth of the internet that allowed people to book easier, faster and cheaper. The result is that most of the holiday companies are on the verge of bankruptcy.

[Neal]

Markie said his friends who are expats will not visit these places and I agree. They won't pay the prices because many expats cannot afford it but along with the price of booze escalating the price of tea money has escalated not only because the bars show more but the people who collect tea money want more, the owners of the spaces want more, the staff has learned that 300 baht a day is not enough and they want more as well as all the utilities.

As I said before, when my bar opened I focused on the expat and did so for the first year. Guess where that got me? Tourists wanted to pay the discount that the expats wanted, the expats wanted even a cheaper price then they were getting and at 100 baht they did NOT come anyway!! With many of the expats the place was too cold, too hot, the boys had tattoos, the boys all had pubic hair, I mean you name it and they ranted about it. I'm sorry but I did my best.

Now the prices are reasonable, the tourists cme in, mant expats come in, they enjoy a show and a good drink and then they go on to the next bar.

Whilst not going to bother getting into the old debate about bar prices being to high etc ( some are !! ) lol the one thing that all bugs me is how a drink is either 100 baht, 150 baht or 200 baht etc - whatever happened to the baht in between - if things jumped from ┬г2.00 to ┬г2.50 to ┬г3.00 in my local bar there would be outrage at the huge leaps but in Thailand there never seems to be a bar bill that comes to 135b baht.

And some say "oh it's to keep things simple, make it easier for the boys to count etc - yet no matter WHAT the final cheque bin is and lets just say for instance that it's 900 baht they never seem to have any problem working out how to speedily ensure that you end up with your 500 baht note plus your 3 x 100s, 2 x 50s and 5x 20 baht notes back as your change thus ensuring you've plenty of options for yet another tip, so I don't know why their excellent maths skills can't be extended on to the calculating the price of a odd numbered bottle of beer ! - so I say we start a campaign for bars to sell beer at 123 baht a bottle as the somewhere in between figure and see what chaos that causes ! :-) lol

[thaiguest]

Well there we are ,I totally agree with all you said ,and things have changed over the years regarding gays and Excepting them in to society,we just dont need to mingle in gay bars all the time we can just mingle in any bar Straight or gay , but you are right on gay prices ,we have always been ripped in in gay venues
.
And if DJ Station can give you 2 free drinks for a entrance fee of 200 baht , then why can not any one else do the same .
Despite the naysayers and posters who like to suck up to bar owners the issue of fair dealing with gay customers is important (almost 2000 replies to this topic so far) and should be examined by people in this Market if they wish to survive.
Of course there is a fact that I know for a long time ie gay bar owners are first and foremost BAR OWNERS and being GAY bar owners comes a poor second. In other words they'll sell out the gay clients to the first money slingers that come along. I know a bar 'gay' bar owner in a 'gay' street in Bangkok whose mantra has been the same for the last 5 years; " well actually we're finding now that the main bulk of our customers are straight and trendy and not gay at all and I MUST SAY they're VERY good for business". Always sounds to me like he's mouthing what he hopes will become a self-fulfilling prophesy; after all you've a much better chance selling on a former gay bar into the 'trendy' Market and becoming a millionaire than spending your whole life catering for a bunch of sideline faggots. In some cases at least I think many of the gay bar owners in the more 'affluent' locations would be happier if the gays got the message and slunk away somewhere else.
But one would be better employed throwing good brandy into a barrel of sawdust that trying to make a point like this here.

[Oliver]

I note Arsenal's comments about hotel and airfare prices. My three trips a year are budgeted on the basis of those rather than other expenses while I am here and it is absolutely correct that we are getting some good deals .
I recently stayed at the Mercure in Chiang Mai for ┬г18 pn, including breakfast. The standard of accommodation I get at Ambiance is amazing for ┬г30 pn; a friend recently had a penthouse suite at Copa for ┬г50 pn.
My EVA flights have only gone up about 30% in sixteen years and most of that is down to UK tax changes.

But even while I'm here, there are some prices that have barely changed in a decade; in restaurants, for example. My boyfriend and I eat well for ┬г10 in Cucumber. French food at Le Bordeaux is provided at 1990 Paris -prices- and is just as good.

An "off" fee paid to a go go dancer at Cockpit (now Copa) in 1995 was 500 bht plus 200 bar fine. Drinks were 80 bht. But the exchange rate was about 37bht to the pound. Do the maths.

The problem that we face is due to the exchange rate. A few years ago, I was receiving 73 bht to the pound; over a period of twelve years, I usually enjoyed a rate in the mid sixties. Now it's under 50.

Again, do the maths.

[arsenal]

I agree with a lot of what Oliver has said. You can still eat really well for a fraction of the price of most countries. A three course dinner at Cuisine au Buerre for 270 Baht for example. Plenty of bars offer beers for 50 or 60 Baht. As far as I am aware the Baht bus from Pattaya to Jomtien is still only 20 baht and there are now so many guesthouses offering very reasonable prices. However, if you go out boy hunting then obviously the outlay is going to rack up.
I suppose the litmus test is this. If at the end of your trip you think you received value for money then you can't complain. If you don't, well there are thousands of other places to try.
But I bet you end up returning to pattaya.

[Oliver]

Baht bus fares to Jomtien in 1996 were 10 bht; today (and I did that journey twenty minutes ago), they are still 10 bht.

[TravellerDave]

I agree the baht bus fare from the rank at South Pattaya Road would be 10 baht, but from further North such as Soi 2 I would expect to pay 20.