Haggle vs Value

[bucknaway]

This weekend I walked through the Weekend Market in Woodstown, NJ known as Cow Town and saw many things being sold for $1 that would run 100 or 200 baht in Thailand. Then I was surprised to see racks and racks of the silk robes sold on the streets of Pattaya being sold here for $5.

I can't help but wonder what is the true dollar value of those silk robes?

Anymore, before I go to Thailand I will walk through our local weekend markets to see what things are available and what the asking price is. I did that before my last visit and it stopped me from wasting a lot of money on things I can buy back here in the USA at a far cheaper price.

I do plan to buy a lot of the copy brands of briefs, those were worth the 100 baht paid vs the price demanded for the actual brand.

I often wonder how the asking price reflects value in Thailand's meat markets.....

[latintopxxx]

Finally a glimmer of light shines through.....EVERYTHING under the sun is negotiable...from a million dollar property to the company of an attractive companion...for those who seem to think that there is a fixed minimum price for short and/or long time....wake up...don't even think you will smell the coffee......it's long gone....
Pricing is all to do with supply and demand...and value perception...

[bruce_nyc]

Buck, I think...... (1) everything is made in china, and (2) everything is cheaper here in the usa except three things: sex, labor, and knockoff brands

The reasons those cost more here: Two of the three are really the same -- labor. And two of the three are illegal here..... ( which makes the price higher ).

Latin, when beginning to haggle for a short and/or long time.... What is your starting offer....? And what usually ends up being your ending offer...? ( I'm seriously curious. )

[latintopxxx]

..oh dear...very sensitive subject, there must have been multiple posts on this subject in the past...at at the risk of being vilified as a cheap charlie....I rarely pay more than 500 for short time...and 1000 for overnight...although to be fair I rarely do overnights...find it difficult to sleep/relax with a stranger in my bed.
Have on aoccasion paid up to 1800 for short time incluiding off fee but that was only when I fall in total lust with a beauty on stage...know that others on this board pay disgustingly way more ...but each to their own iI guess...

[bruce_nyc]

Don't worry, I'm not going to call you a cheap charlie...

But if you end up at 500 for a short time, what was your opening offer? 100? 250? 400?

And if you end up at 1000 for a long time, what was your first offer? 500? 700? 800?

I'm genuinely curious.

Would the boys ever get insulted or act indignant if the first offer was too low?

Do they actually counteroffer? Do they haggle?

[Neal]

I can only tell you about my boys. I give them a minimum of 1,000 with a max of 1,500 for a short time.
Now out of curiosity from different threads where we have had discussion about this, I went to several of my boys and offered them 500 baht.
I could see the look of dismay on their faces and in the end they said ok but only because you my boss. Several of them even asked because of the low amount if they could put it off to the next afternoon. When a few of them came over at different times, when we were done, I still gave them 1,000 and some 1,000 plus motorbike taxi. I am sorry but it is just my opinion that anything under 1,000 is taking advantage. But that's you and I am me.


And actually I will add something. Latintopxxx. You brag about being flown all over the world and making all this money. You have told us about luxury hotels you can stay in and I think first class on plane as well as other things. I find it hard to believe that you cannot find 1,000 in your heart. I know you will say that that is the game and why pay more than you have to. It's because it is right.

[aot871]

I agree with the boss , 1000 for short time and 1500 for long , .I just tell the boys what im paying and leave it up to them , take it or leave it

[sing_lofty_sing]

DaBoss there is only one way i judge a boys tip. That is how deep he lets me go before yelling out stop. Starting at 500bt for a crown and moving up the bhat balance per inch. Many a boy has made 1500bt for a good moan, lol.

[Neal]

Sing, your just a pervert! :sign5: :snorting:

[bruce_nyc]

Sing, I can't resist asking...

If 500 is to "crown", adding 500 for each additional inch, to a maximum of 1500 Baht ...

Are we to assume you're only packing 3 inches? ?? :happy7:

[latintopxxx]

DaBoss...have never flown 1st class...what a waste of money...best I've done is biz...and thats because it's a biz trip and someone else is paying...same goes for hotels...when I pay it's the malaysia in BKk...when the boss/client pays it's the Dusit. As for whats right when the correct amount is concerned for short/long time...I know what factory workers working 40 hours/week are on...and believe that the average gogo boy is making way over that .....so I prefer not to discuss it any further as we are poles apart.

[bruce_nyc]

Latin, have you ever seen any disappointment in their faces..... or in their performance.... when they hear ( or see ) your offer...?

Do they ever frown, or act sad, or pout...? Or do they seem very happy with it...?

[Neal]

I am not trying to argue with you I am trying to get you to understand. Sure, factory workers and a laborers make approx 300 baht per day but they are employed 10 hours a day 28 days a month. A boy has to be at the bar, street , GR , Beach or where ever possible several days before they get a fish on the line. I am sorry, for the people that offer 500 - 700 I just think it is disgraceful and if they can't afford to pay a minimum of 1,000 well I think they should not be here. They have expenses also....room, meals, telephone, snacks. What can I say. I just think it's wrong and I am certainly not the only one. It certainly is a subject that that I don't believe a person should be proud of and if that's what you feel comfortable in paying then you should not be proud of it and just keep it to yourself!

[martin911]

I have previously posted on this subject ( with Latin in particular )

He likes to haggle for the sake of haggling ,i dont actually believe he does it to make the boy feel bad (although that is prob the outcome with most boys after his bargaining them down )

But i agree with DB on this --Its not something any farang should be proud of -to say that they offer / pay under the figure of 1000b
Put it into context with what the average price re meals/rooms/airfares a farang pays to get to Thailand the 1000b figure is not unreasonable

1000b was pretty much the shortime price when i started going to Thailand 8/9 years ago -- and essential things that the boys need (iphones/ tablets etc ) have gotten much more expensive since then :laughing3:

Bruce --re looks on faces (disappointment etc ) -I dont see any of that normally but last sun morning i saw this --
A guy who lives in my place got a meggage from a farang on GR --he was offering 250 b for my friend to go and massage and sex in his room !!!
250 bhat !!!!!! Latin has competition it would seem !!!
I saw saw him push his glasses higher up his nose as he peered at the screen ,shake his head ,he laughed a little as he told me what the farang had said to him but then afterwards i saw his shoulders slump down and he looked sad --
Who wouldn't ??--he is a cute 19yo guy that puts a smile on anybody's face that meets him and some dipstick offers him something stupid like that !!
Still he laughed after we sent a message back to the sad farang offering him 300 bhat for HIM to come to our place and clean our toilets (all 4 )
Well it was obvious the farang was in need of income from somewhere right ???

[firecat69]

I am not trying to argue with you I am trying to get you to understand. Sure, factory workers and a laborers make approx 300 baht per day but they are employed 10 hours a day 28 days a month. A boy has to be at the bar, street , GR , Beach or where ever possible several days before they get a fish on the line. I am sorry, for the people that offer 500 - 700 I just think it is disgraceful and if they can't afford to pay a minimum of 1,000 well I think they should not be here. They have expenses also....room, meals, telephone, snacks. What can I say. I just think it's wrong and I am certainly not the only one. It certainly is a subject that that I don't believe a person should be proud of and if that's what you feel comfortable in paying then you should not be proud of it and just keep it to yourself!


!00% with DaBoss!!

[billy2bs]

I had the opportunity to manage some businesses before I retired and always tried to pay the help as much as was reasonable for the type of job they had. I was always of the opinion that in many cases people work for money and that is what will make them happy.Unfortunately the job itself could not always pay a wage which would keep a person happy as well as enthused in todays' society. I was however able to get bonus money that I could spread out over time. I would then use this extra to pass on to my deserving people as a thank you for doing their job well or for showing certain successes at what it was they were about. It served as a thank you and pat on the back for me to say I appreciated their efforts etc
So I often mused and wondered what local workers make in Thai jobs.Anyone know? How about the mgr of the 7-11 and their clerks. What of the cooks and restaurant workers or hotel people. A taxi driver or cop.Never saw a fireman so I dont know if there are any...hehehehehe. A bar worker mamasan or the mgr there. The shop keeper or sales person, food vendor or..on and on.
If I owned a business I dont know if I could make enough in the LOS but it wold be an interesting to try it out on someone elses dime.. Just thinking out loud thats all. :love4: :glasses7: :glasses7:

[nanette]

DaBoss suggests a minimum of 1000baht.

On gayromeo many boys have offered to do it for much less. It was probably a sum that they needed that day, that very instant.

They were probably casual rent boys.

Like in normal commercial transactions, some customers do get fantastic discounts, similar to Boxing day sales in England & elsewhere. :party

[Neal]

First, there is no such thing as a "casual rent boy". They either are or they are not.
Second there is no such thing as a "special rate" because of a holiday. Sure out of desperation maybe they offer you a rate to get them through the day as they may not have had any tricks in the last few days and they need money for rent or food.

Does that make it right? No!

[Sooty]

Does that make it right? No!It's capitalism, the boy is responding to the marketplace. Markets have nothing to do with morality, so whether it's right or wrong isn't part of the supply and demand curves. You own a business, don't you understand that? If you think otherwise yours is a hobby not a business. I thought Americans are opposed to socialist ideas like "minimum wage"?

I suppose you could argue the laborer is worthy of his hire, but worth what? Basically, worth whatever the market will bear - like an auction in fact, specifically a "Dutch auction" where the seller sets a reserve on the day.

[Neal]

OK, you be proud of yourself that a person ha brought pleasure into your sorry ass lives for $1500 and laugh about. Something you can really be proud of. Come on. Let's have a party and talk about how many t=you got to screw for a lousy $15.00 who are still living below poverty in rooms with 5 people because they can't even get their own room. I think its something to be proud of and abviously so so you!

Edit add on: When I travel around with my scooter especially to the beach, I cannot lift it out of the back. Soon there is always an obliging young man that will lift it out for me. When I try to give them 20 baht, most smile and say no thank you. I stand there and insist until he takes the 20 baht. I guess you are sayong that this is stupid because I want to give them what I feel its worth? NO! As I mentioned before, jokingly, I tell some of the boys 500 baht. Reluctantly they give in. At the end I have no problem giving them 1,000 or upward because I feel that is what they deserve going to be with the likes of me, and baby you aint that far away so dont give me that! 1,000 is a trivial amount!
:kap:

[Sooty]

How I feel about myself is irrelevant. It's a commercial transaction, feelings don't enter into it. I've read some of your posts about your bar and recall you saying you dismiss any boy you detect giving his phone number to a customer in your bar. Or is this limited to boys who don't sleep five to a room? It's exactly the same principle.



For clarification no, a boy cannot sit in ANY bar and exchange phone numbers so that a customer may avoid the off fee a go with a boy during non bar hours. My God what is the bar spending tons of money on a show, on advertising for just to allow boys to pinch customers and go off without paying the bar fine? There we go again with cheap charlie!

[Neal]

Sooty I am really growing weary of your retard answers. First off, giving phone numbers to clients is not what this thread is all about! The way the boys sleep is not what this thread is all about! It HAS to do with what the customer pays the boys and as you say, its a financial transaction and therefore you don't give a flying fuck. So yiu have answered yourself.

[stevehadders]

I too think 1000 tip is minimum. One wet afternoon I was on GR and invited one young chap to Le Cafe for an hour - on the GR message he said - "you can have for 600" - this was unprompted, but I got the real impression he wanted to secure a booking (probably desperate for the cash). He arrived, and looked like he did on his pics(not always the way with GR, hence I use the bars at night)and was absolutely wonderful. (and I mean wonderful in every way ). He went home with 1200, because he was worth it

[Sooty]

... and as you say, its a financial transaction ... That is precisely the one thing I haven't said. I have said it is a commercial decision, just as your decision to sack a boy for engaging in commercial activities that exclude you while on your premises is a commercial decision. You really should pay attention. The commercial decision may result in a financial transaction but equally it may not, if the boy decides not to sell his arse for the amount on offer.

[Neal]

Oh stop Sooty. Now you are just making yourself look stupid as you try to escape looking nothing more than a cheap charlie.

[Sooty]

By the way my sister has Down Syndrome so I find the use of the word "retard" as a term of abuse particularly offensive.

[Neal]

I have no apologies to you Sooty. In the last three weeks you have acted like your shit doesn't stink, you are above everyone else, including 's English.myself and every American and have made it your business to correct everyone's English. I will quote a PM received by me about 2 weeks ago and again this last week. I don't know what has gotten up Sooty's ass but he is really out of control!

.
And to use your explanation of everything to show you are correct, to say you made a retard answers is not the same as calling you a retard.

[Diec]

Sooty is spot on, I love all the working boys but they are in fact a business transaction. I don't care about their problems, I have my own at work, but now I'm on holiday, on a budget, and want to get the most from my dollar. Call me cheap Charlie but what am I to do when the guy cutting my hair tells me I'm only the 2nd haircut he's had this month, the restaurant where the cute waiter works is very slow everyday, business is also very slow for the contractor working on my condo. So my question to all the generous people on this board is: How much extra do I give/tip these people on top of their 'asking' price to ensure they are able to survive and I'm not called a cheap Charlie behind by back, or does giving double the agreed upon price only apply to bar boys?

The boys are businessmen, and in their business, what you lose on one customer, (cheap Charlie) you make up for on the next. (mr. Double your Price)

[Neal]

I don't think you understood what I and others are trying to say Diec. We are not trying to say that you are to be a WEALTHY charlie, it is justnot necessary for you to haggle and pinch, bargain your way down to the point where it (as another person says) makes you feel good that you aer able to get away with it and be proud of it the discomfort you are bringing on that person.

[frequentflier]

I have never being good at haggling,,whatever is the going rate is ok by me.

[Neal]

Sure. I think if a boy says his rate is 1,000 then its 1,000 but for a person to sit there and toy with them untill they get them down to 500 or 750 is just disgraceful.

[latintopxxx]

daboss...maybe you should just shut this topic down, clearly the gap between the opposing opinions is too great!

[pennyboy]

I don't haggle the price down. If a guy on GR says he wants 100bt, that's what he will get if we meet. If he asks for 700bt, then that is what he will get.
I am neither proud nor ashamed.
It is what it is.

[martin911]

100 is a reasonable amount of money to have to pay i think to the guys working !!

[Neal]

100 baht is reasonable??? ......well OK.... Hmmmm! :violent1:

[nanette]

It is up to the boys, & up to you really, provided both are adults, & in a willing-willing transaction. :duel:

[bucknaway]

I think that the rate is fluid as much as it will depend on the guy and how attracted you are to him, how much he is asking for and if you think you can do better if you wait.

I already have a limit on the amount I will give a guy for fun and if he wants more than I am willing to give, I move on to the next guy.

I once asked a guy in a Boyztown gogo bar how much for fun with him and he told me 200 baht or some low amount. I don't know if he was being clever or simply figured that if I did off him I would certainly give him more than 200 baht. Or maybe he truly only wanted 200 baht from me? I don't know, I didn't off him and something in his body language told me that he didn't understand why I became uninterested. The mamasan wanted to assist with the situation but my gut told me to just move on and leave him alone.

[fountainhall]

1000b was pretty much the shortime price when i started going to Thailand 8/9 years ago
I first came to Thailand more than 3 decades ago and have been a very regular visitor/resident since. If I recall correctly, the first short-time tip I paid was Bt.400. At that time, US$1 bought around Bt. 20. So the tip was approx. US$20 тАУ and I thought it was so cheap! Within a few years, the average short-time tip was up to Bt. 500 but the Bt. had been fixed at 25 to US$1. So the tips effectively remained the same at around US$20.

With the early 1990s economic boom, the average short-time tip crept up to Bt.1,000 тАУ therefore doubling to US$40. From the end of 1997 through the early 2000s, though, the Asian economic crisis had the Baht first crash and then stabilize well below is previous value. The short-time tip remained at Bt.1,000 which effectively meant foreigners were paying around US$22 - $25. Now with the Baht stabilized around 31, Bt.1,000 remains the recommended minimum tip for many, and it now costs farang around $33.

Whilst I have never been one to cheer publicly when rates are low and moan when they are high, they sometimes can form a useful comparison. So the minimum recommended tip for a farang three decades ago was around $20. Now it is around $33. The farang is therefore getting an amazing deal. Just think of worldwide inflation rates during that time.

That $20 in 1980 should now cost $55.61. IтАЩm not sure what the $/┬г conversion was in 1980, but ┬г10 in 1980 would cost ┬г42 (approx. US$65) now. So the farang is paying a lot less in real terms.

Then think of Thailand. Inflation between 1980 and 1998 hovered around an average of 5%. If you just take the last 5 years alone, it has been less, but you are still looking at a total compound inflation rate of around 20%. So itтАЩs reasonable to assume a compound rate in the region of 200% or more over 30 years. For the boys, that Bt.1,000 minimum tip has therefore dropped massively in value compared to many of the goods and services which those tips can purchase.

The only point IтАЩm trying to make is that visitors to Thailand are getting an amazing deal with a short-time rate of just Bt.1,000. On the other hand, the value of that Bt.1,000 to Thais keeps on being eroded annually. Yes, offing can be a negotiable feast and some people will always try it. And some will point out to the alternatives тАУ working in the fields and so on and even to the cost of minimum tips in other neighbouring countries. IтАЩm not knocking those comparisons. But I do think everyone should spend a little time realizing that life for the bar boys is not what it used to be, and it is getting more difficult by the year.


On gayromeo many boys have offered to do it for much less.
You might also add that many guys are perfectly happy for no payment apart, perhaps, for transport costs. Some even are offended when you offer money. I believe the situation here in Bangkok is less money-oriented than in Pattaya. But I have rarely met any guy in gayromeo who has asked for тАУ or expected - cash.

[latintopxxx]

Better question is what will тВм20 buy in Thailand vs in Europe...a lot more bang for your buck!! BY this measure Thai gogos are way overpaid. My expectations are that everything in Thailand will be cheaper...and that includes commercial sex....can get heaps of it free at Babs but that is different..
Confusion arises when one see's a gogo "date" as a partner..or friend..equal relationship scenario....I don't...its pure sex.....once I''m done..throw your clothes on and dissapear...
I dont insist on paying extra where taxis..baht buses(10 baht/ride???) ..hotels...restaurants...store purchases(can of coke fraction of the cost in Europe??) are concerned...why should I pay extra where arse is concerned...
Cheap and plentiful is my motto...stack then up high and discount heavily....work on volume....

Yes, Poxxy, we've heard it all before.

Tell us something new, you boring cunt.

No offence.

:occasion9:

[latintopxxx]

...none taken...got extremely thick skin....and agree subject has been discussed ad nauseum in the past...opinions will always differ..

My expectations are that everything in Thailand will be cheaper...


Well having just received my visa card and bank debit card statements in this week after my trip a few weeks ago I would absolutely question the whole "everything is cheaper in Thailand" line - not from you personally Latin as like you I "generally" always fool myself into believing the same - until after I get home each time and tot up the damage and say to myself " what, I spent HOW much ?!!" :-(

[martin911]

100 baht is reasonable??? ......well OK.... Hmmmm! :violent1:

Sorry that should have read 1000 :notworthy: --and i was only on the second glass of wine by then :scratch: -- !!! -

[Neal]

Oh thank God! You really got me on that one! :laughing3: