Class System

[bucknaway]

Have you seen Thailand's social class system in action? Is it something that is talked about but seldom witnessed?

I ask because today A co-worker from England told us about his little son getting in a fight at school and he told his son that it is not important having that other boy as a friend because his father is nothing more than a sandwich maker. This boys father -- The sandwich maker -- owns his own restaurant and is doing very well for himself.

His remark reminded us that England has a social class system and after talking with him about the difference in the social systems of England and the USA, I wondered if I ever encountered Thailand's social class system and didn't realize it?

IMO its far worse than the class system you see in places like the UK. Money counts for almost everything, and family names are equally important. A sandwich maker might be doing OK but he can't compare with some of the guys who buy their children Mercs with the petty cash. There's also the "who you know" (old school) syndrome which applies much more here than in most western countries. I saw an example of this recently where a busy road was being flooded fairly frequently. Residents had complained for several years but then a new comer to the area made a phone call to a friend, and days later new drains were being laid...

I know a couple of Thai guys here in Brissie with Falang boyfriend and they never fly Thai Airways because the flight attendants are all hi-so and look down on ordinary Thais or at least thats what they say they also talk about the top 500 families from what I can gather everyone knows there place and there is no social mobility.

I think its still a class war...the have's and have nots.....i believe in people being equal....but most people dont want to know
as long as thier ok ..thats why i like Buddism because it makes you see the world in a new light
anyway rich or poor ..we all die...and you cant take it with you..the Egyptian Pharaohs tried that ha ha
In Britain a lot of us have a social awarness and come up against the class system all the time through experience
In Manchester i'm a well known concert promoter and have done 850 shows in 23 years and i treat every one equally and because every one in the show feels valued and give great performances
I've never been motivated by money ..i just need enough to get by...the world is so gready now..they need a bit more wisdom

".thats why i like Buddism because it makes you see the world in a new light"
Unfortunately, the national religion of Thailand used to be Buddhism, but it was replaced quite a long time ago by the all pervading worship of money.

[Marsilius]

....from what I can gather everyone knows there place and there is no social mobility.

Actually, research seems to indicate that things are more fluid - at least when it comes to rising from the Thai working class into the middle class - than you might think.

See http://www.ide.go.jp/English/Publish/Pe ... _02_07.pdf (http://www.ide.go.jp/English/Publish/Periodicals/De/pdf/03_02_07.pdf)

It's a long read but looking at just the opening abstract, the charts of statistics (especially Table IV) and the final conclusion will give you an idea of what the findings were.

[Dodger]

Is it something that is talked about but seldom witnessed?

I think a person would witness this very clearly if he were to toggle between the two distinct socio-economic classes in Thailand, as there is a very thick wall between those who have and those who do not have in the Land of Smiles.

Thailand is one of the most socially unequal countries in Asia, where the top 20 percent of the population controls 80 percent of the nationтАЩs wealth. The orchestrated clashes between the Yellow Shirts (those who have) and Red Shirts (those who don't have) just goes to emphasize the huge divide between these classes.

Everyone looks down on the rural farming classes - evan the Chinese-Thais who control the majority of business enterprises in Thailand. The only class of people who don't have anyone to look down on are the indian hills tribes people, i.e., Aka, Isu, Karen, because they have been placed by society on the lowest shelf. Buddhist monks have been placed in a class all their own and not viewed by the Thai people as being in either a higher or lower class level.

The only big difference I see between Thailand and the West, is if a Thai farmer was to win the lotto and become wealthy over night - he would immediately enter a higher class level and be acknowledged as such by society in large regardless of his family blood-line. Conversely, if a truck driven from Little Rock Arkansas won the lotto and became wealthy over night, he would just be viewed by society as a truck driver form Little Rock with a lot of money.

[francois]

Thailand is one of the most socially unequal countries in Asia, where the top 20 percent of the population controls 80 percent of the nationтАЩs wealth.
.

Isn't that similar to the wealth distribution in the USA where 10% controls 80% of the wealth?

[bkkguy]

There's also the "who you know" (old school) syndrome which applies much more here than in most western countries.

from Khun Voranai Vanijaka, Political and Social Commentator, Bangkok Post:
Who's your daddy? (http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/301458/who-s-your-daddy)

bkkguy

[bruce_nyc]

Yes, I was going to say that too...

This all sounds so very familiar..... like nearly every country on Earth.

Is there any country that does not have some version of a class system, society, old boys network of wealthy old-money families., etc...?

It seems universal to me.

[christianpfc]

Isn't that similar to the wealth distribution in the USA where 10% controls 80% of the wealth?

The 80/20 distribution applies to many countries and other concepts:


Pareto noticed that 80% of Italy's land was owned by 20% of the population.

80% of your profits come from 20% of your customers
80% of your complaints come from 20% of your customers (edit: I'm sure Neal can confirm. LOL!)
80% of your profits come from 20% of the time you spend
80% of your sales come from 20% of your products
80% of your sales are made by 20% of your sales staff

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

[Dodger]

Pareto was right again because 80% of the Thai population are dirt poor because 20% of the population are greedy and corrupt.

As far as I'm concerned the middle class in Thailand is transparent Evan a bank manager who would certainly be considered middle class if not upper class in the West draws a smaller paycheck than #22 at Crazy Dragon and leaves work wearing his tailored suit and spit-shined shoes only to return to a dingy apartment where his family resides. The bank tellers, who would probably be considered middle class anywhere else on earth are most likely living on the fringe of poverty due to the pay they receive.

[thaiguest]

Re. Wealth distribution I recall reading a report published by a professor from Chualongkhorn University last year which stated the fact that 45% of cash savings in Thailand was held by 35000 people! I understand that the population of Thailand is about the same as the UK. Can you imagine a place like Greater (sic) Truroe owning 45% of British cash? VERY Sick.

[thaiguest]

An American friend of mine witnessed a 'class' incident in a Siam Paragon elevator recently. He went there with his mate and his mate's rather dark skinned Issarn boyfriend. To the disgust of the two Falange a little old Chinese or Chinese/Thai lady started mouthing off to the boy. My friend understood the gist of what she was saying (we don't want your sort here etc.) and launched some choice language into her little face. She was unbowed and as she left the elevator she shook the keys of an expensive car in front of the boys face. What REALLY upset the farangs was the fact that this normally confident boy cowed before the wizened b--ch.

[cdnmatt]

The class system is definitely there, and in many ways far worse than the West, but I think that's rapidly changing as we speak though. Middle class is increasingly growing, and all indications show this trend will continue. But yes, traditionally if you stayed within the class you were born. If you were born a rice farming peasant, it was drilled into you that it's all you'll ever be, so accept it. Everyone in society accepted this, and acted accordingly. The poor wouldn't go to certain places, the rich wouldn't go to certain places, they'd both look down on each other, etc.

I think that's changing though, and 10 years time we'll see a different Thailand than we do today.

[bruce_nyc]

What evidence have you seen that it is changing?

[Marsilius]

The evidence is in the academic article that I quoted above.

[fountainhall]

Sadly I don't see much evidence of it changing. I have known some Thai business people and others near the so-called hi-so set for over 30 years. None has changed or shows any inclination to change. There is something deeply ingrained in Thai society in general that will take decades to change, in my view. It's a mistake to think the rise of the red-shirts or more representative democracy will change it.

Let's not forget that the rigid British class system took well over half a century for meaningful change to begin. And had it not been for the decimation of the "upper classes" in World War 1, that process of change would probably have taken even longer.

[cdnmatt]

What evidence have you seen that it is changing?

Minimum wage recently increased by 33%.

Factory owners are fighting to keep workers, and being forced to increase wages and improve conditions. Same as China, for example.

# of low-entry while collar jobs is increasing.

Thailand's GDP is increasing rapidly.

I know for a FACT, if you have zero education and want to put in the hours, you can make at least 25,000/month selling BBQ at the market. Anyone can do this too. All it takes is about 15,000 baht start-up capital. And 25k/month isn't anything special, but for someone with say a 4th grade education and no experience, up here in Issan it's pretty decent.

And just simply looking around. I'm up in Issan, and there's no shortage of Thais going out to nice restaurants, regardless of the day of week. I'm in a typical middle class sub-burb, and while none of my neighbors are rich (well, except one -- but I think they're mafia), none of them are hurting either. One neighbor will come back from Laos with a bottle of whiskey from duty free, another one is heading to the UK shortly to continue teaching, another one to New York to goto some class / seminar, and so on. And these aren't rich Thais. They're just typical, middle class Thais.

[Dodger]

cdnmatt wrote:

I'm up in Issan, and there's no shortage of Thais going out to nice restaurants

Nice restaurants...Isaan!!!...can you give me the address please.

I wish you were right about the "growing Thai middle class" and expectations that" things will improve in ten years time", but I can't see this happening until possibly the next millenium. They (The Thais) are totally polarized by corruption and the rich will continue to get richer - and the poor poorer until foreign investors turn their backs totally and the regime is forced to make major changes similar to what we are witnessing now in Myanmir.

If you have aThai neighbor who hopped a plane to the UK for a seminar - then I must assume that the company he is working for payed for the ticket. Just surf any of the web sites which lay out Thai Average Wage Earings and you will see that the so-called Thai middle class worker earns less than 16,000 bt/month. I worked for a U.S./Thai joint venture once in Rayong and we were paying production managers with college degrees less than 22,000 bt/month and they were lucky if they could afford bicycles to make it to work.

I have always said that the Thai people are the most wonderful people I have ever met, but they are totally grid-locked from real advancement and prosperity due to the wide-spread corruption. Corruption is a disease...consumes all living matter...and the only antidote is time.

[pong]

seems to me that this is more showing of stubborn belief as real facts.
That 20/80-as so many have pointed out is about the usual norm in this world in most even o-so equal western societies.
Much more backward as TH in Asia are countries in Asia like Cambodia, Pakistan, Bangla Desh, Indonesia, Phillippines, etc.
That idea that the poor get moor poor every year is utter nonsense-as seen by the multiply of shopping centres, resrtrs etc -these would not be there if there would be no Thai to spend in. Probably the best review is like: there are ever fewer dirt-poor, and they get reltively more poor, but many former poor now have climbed up and have more to spend, even though it is not yet as much as we would wish for them or they would. Many analists say, that part of the red uprising was the ever growing middle class in TH-a sign of TH getting up in the economy.
Nice to see you back, dear Matt from Canuck, still in land of smiles or gone to summery Canucks?

...That idea that the poor get moor poor every year is utter nonsense-as seen by the multiply of shopping centres....

Either you're joking or fucked in the head - which is it?

[cdnmatt]

Nice restaurants...Isaan!!!...can you give me the address please.

What do you mean? There's loads. Ok, maybe not 5 star, $100/plate restaurants, but lots where it'd cost around say 2000 baht for three people to have a nice meal. And those places are never empty. Same as there's no scarcity of nice, newer vehicles around.


They (The Thais) are totally polarized by corruption and the rich will continue to get richer - and the poor poorer until foreign investors turn their backs totally and the regime is forced to make major changes similar to what we are witnessing now in Myanmir.

Two things here. One, for an example, you constantly hear reports from factory owners in Asia complaining because they can't keep workers, so these guys are forced to offer better wages, hours, and conditions now. This trend will continue, as the economic powerhouses in the world slowly shift from the West to SE Asia (and others such as Brazil, etc.).

And two, I could be wrong, but I think corruption works both ways. Just because the national stats say they only make 23,000/month, I don't think necessarily means that's actually how much they make. The typical employee will work the system to their advantage too, to ensure that 23k turns into 50k, or whatever. I could be wrong on this, but for some reason, I doubt it. I don't know, I don't ask, as it's rude to ask people about how much they make.

For example, take my one neighbor. He's an IT guy for ToT, so on paper, not a good paying job. However, there's zero chance he could afford his lifestyle on say 23k/month. He has two nice vehicles (truck, and car), both quite new, nice house, drinks beer all the time, goes for vacations to Laos, Cambodia or Malaysia quite often to get away from the wife, is putting his son through uni, etc. You can't do that on 23k/month, and he's not alone. That same type of story goes for the majority of my neighbors, and honestly, I think I'm in a poorer sub-burb. It's definitely on the older side, that's for sure.


That idea that the poor get moor poor every year is utter nonsense-as seen by the multiply of shopping centres, resrtrs etc -these would not be there if there would be no Thai to spend in. Probably the best review is like: there are ever fewer dirt-poor, and they get reltively more poor, but many former poor now have climbed up and have more to spend, even though it is not yet as much as we would wish for them or they would.

I actually think that may be about right. It's a gradual thing, and not going to happen over night. Nonetheless, almost all economies in SE Asia are doing well right now, and that is having an impact on daily lives.


Nice to see you back, dear Matt from Canuck, still in land of smiles or gone to summery Canucks?

Nah, still here in KK. I love Thailand, and haven't given up on it. Have just given up on Kim, that's all. :-)

[Marsilius]

Many analists say, that part of the red uprising was the ever growing middle class in TH-a sign of TH getting up in the economy.

That, of course, is a classic stage in the development of capitalist societies according to a Marxist analysis of history.

Maybe Thailand has therefore reached that stage where the middle classes/bourgeoisie, having increased their economic power, are now seeking to grab a share of the political power - from the old ruling class - that is commensurate to their increased wealth?

Out and out revolution is still a long way off, however, for the fact that Thailand's masses are rural, rather than urban will, according to Marxist theory, delay the next stage - the seizure of power by the working classes.

That idea that the poor get moor poor every year is utter nonsense-as seen by the multiply of shopping centres, resrtrs etc

I actually think that may be about right.

It's a stange definition of "poor" to be shopping in the latest shopping malls and eating in restaurants.

That's not "poor" people at all - well, certainly not in a Thai context.

So, in my opinion, you cannot comment on the condition of the poor by counting shopping malls and restaurants.

[fountainhall]

they are totally grid-locked from real advancement and prosperity due to the wide-spread corruption. Corruption is a disease...consumes all living matter...and the only antidote is time.
I believe corruption is endemic in Thai society. Everyone knows it but absolutely no-one is prepared to do anything at all to tackle it. Frankly, I don't believe time is the healer here. The statistics indicate the degree of corruption is getting worse. The Bangkok Post highlighted the Anti-Corruption Network's recent Report "saying that under the table pay-offs accounted for 50% of the costs of all government concessions". The Chairman of the ACN was not quite sure if this figure was correct or whether it should be nearer to 30%. If it is 50%, he suggested, "it is scary!"

What is a lot more scary, Mr. Chairman, is that a similar 1999 survey claimed that "under the table money accounted for 1% to 5% of the cost of government concessions." So corrupt payments seem to have risen tenfold in just over ten years! The ACN Chairman also points out, "the majority of people . . . don't see the money lost to corruption as their money. They think it's just government money, not theirs."

And what does this mandarin propose to do about the situation? Will they name names? No. Why not? "We've tried to do it the official way. We've asked the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) to make information public. But they've refused. They are afraid of getting sued, they lack courage. Like corruption within the Transport Ministry, the NACC is still afraid to make the information public."

He then says: "If we had a government that has a vision and is sincere, we would be able to combat corruption. There are models of countries where this has been done successfully, such as in Hong Kong and Singapore."

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3 ... -end-graft (http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/303669/anti-corruption-network-head-says-public-must-fire-first-salvo-in-battle-to-end-graft)

But he clearly does not seem to know much about the way Hong Kong tackled a corruption problem that was in many ways as endemic as Thailand's. In 1974, Hong Kong's colonial governor of the day realised that neither the police nor the government could do the job - if only because there was way too much corruption in high places. So he established an Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) that was totally independent of the police, the government and the judiciary. In effect, those suspected of being corrupt were guilty until proven innocent. Corruption cases would be pursued until sufficient evidence had been obtained, and only thereafter would they go before the law courts. Whilst some legal eagles and civil rights organisations might now no doubt cry "foul", the fact is that it worked, and it continues to work - spectacularly. Hong Kong soon had one of the most corrupt-free governments and business environments in Asia. Don't take my word for it. Look at all the statistics. Talk to Hong Kong residents. When a survey was conducted at the end of the last millennium, Hong Kong people voted the establishment of ICAC as the 6th most important event in the 150 years of history in Hong Kong.

That, along with essential reforms in other areas, is the only way to root out corruption in Thailand!

[bruce_nyc]

Fascinating information, Fountainhall. Thanks!

[christianpfc]

Many analists say...

Who says what?


That idea that the poor get moor poor every year is utter nonsense-as seen by the multiply of shopping centres, resrtrs etc -these would not be there if there would be no Thai to spend in. Probably the best review is like: there are ever fewer dirt-poor, and they get reltively more poor, but many former poor now have climbed up and have more to spend, even though it is not yet as much as we would wish for them or they would.
I once read somewhere [citation needed], that now more obese than hungry people live on earth. But that doesn't mean that on average, everyone has enough to eat.

[kittyboy]

In economics there is an index called the Ginni which is a measure of income disparity. Income disparity is increasing in thailand according to this measure.

How that translates into class mobility I am not sure...but for long term social stability a high Ginni is a bad indicator.


http://www.indexmundi.com/thailand/dist ... index.html (http://www.indexmundi.com/thailand/distribution_of_family_income_gini_index.html)

[Oliver]

I'd be interested in the views of posters regarding skin-colour in this context. I used to visit Jamaica frequently in the 80s and early 90s and class was very closely associated with colour.The lighter the skin, the wealthier and more powerful the citizen.
In fact, the term "quashie" was applied to those with the darkest skins.

In Thailand we see huge amounts of skin whitening products on sale. I tell P. that he buys it at his peril- I love the dark skin of Isaan guys. He and his friends refer to the poorer classes ( his origin) as coming "from the black mountains." Has anyone else heard this expression? The guys find it hilarious; I'm uneasy.

Its well known that middle class Thais look down on anyone with a dark skin, especially rural workers. White skin equals beauty, dark skin equals ugliness or something on those lines. It gets to ridiculous levels, my bf's aunt looks like a ghost, and a percentage of her wealth goes on whitening products and surgical procedures.

..White skin equals beauty..

I bet a few of us could disabuse them of that particular idea!

:love4:

[bruce_nyc]

Hmmm. Maybe I don't need to worry about working on my tan.

A friend who has a Thai boyfriend here in Oz explained the skin color thing to me its if you've got dark skin you must be outside all day which means your working on a farm which means your a peasant which means your low class which is why all the dark skin Thais buy that skin whitening rubbish the Thai boyfriend never goes on sunbathes here because that will make his skin dark dunno why he cares hes a waiter in a restaurant

One thing that interests me I know that hiso people are usually rich but a lot of poseter here seem to be saying the opposite if your rich you must be hiso thats not true is it?

Being rich doesn't automatically make you HiSo but its very often the case. Hiso covers business people as well as 'old' families. A rice farmer who wins the lottery isn't going to be HiSo, but if he invests his money wisely, perhaps his grandkids might be. There are some HiSo who don't have pots of money but do have the family name.

[Dodger]

Your friend is spot on.

It's a shame because the dark-skinned boys from Isaan have such beautiful skin complexion. Maybe one day they'll come to learn that people who classify others by the color of their skin are actually people of the lowest class and should be treated as a dillusion.

[thaiguest]

Hmmm. Maybe I don't need to worry about working on my tan.

During the last of my many strolls through Chualalongkhorn University Campus BKK I observed hundreds of pale skin students with books and folders walking around or sitting in the shade and many looking very handsome.

I saw only one group of about 5 dark skinned people, in the shade of a spreading tree, holding brooms and sweeping up leaves.

[thrillbill]

My Thai bf of 7 years is from Isaan. At age 15, he left home and went to Bangkok to ear some money, working of course illegally in some restaurant(owned by Thai chinese) that took advantage of this cheap labor. My bf eventually worked at a garment factory and was discovered by his boss to have a special talent in copyng patterns. Eventually, my bf went to design school and became a tailor. He runs a small shop making and designing garments for his clients. No, he is not famous or rich, but worked hard to defeat the odds against him. One time I was with him at DJ's and introduced him to a "Thai-Chinese" and I mentioned that he was from Isaan. MY bf had a fit that I said he was from Isaan. To him, it labeled him "low class" to the Bangkok people. I was shocked that he would think that; for, I think he should be proud that he worked hard to get where he is today. He is also very bitter towards Thai-Chinese who can have an arrogance about people from the North or Isaan. Even I have been screwed by two different Thai-Chinese landlords that found excuses not to give me my one month deposit back from renting a condo from them. After other experiences, I am like my bf, I am prejudice and think the Thai Chinese would sell their grandmother if they could make a profit. I say to my other Thai friends from Isaan, why they do not apply for certain jobs and they all say that they are from Isaan or have the wrong name to be considered for the job. I am so naive, since I come from a country that judges one on their performance , not their background. Personally, I cannot stand seeing the rich Thai Chinese that strut around in their designer clothes (usually some tight skin pants, narrow collared shirt, loafers, straw hat, sun glasses0 looking like a clone of Ching Chang Wang. And they will freak out if their white skin becomes a bit tanned.

I like'd reading ..what you wrote.....My bf is very proud of his Isaan roots and after staying there a few times with him...i can see why he likes it so much....you cant do anything about some peoples ignorence about where they come from..i was born in moss side manchester...to some it has a bad reputation but never stopped me from me feeling i'm just as good as anyone else
Isaan to some is just as good as anywhere else in Thailand and a lot more friendly
maybe my roots helped me to apreciate his roots

[latintopxxx]

class system, wealth disparity ..etc...exist everywhere, only in the west due to the advanced political/democratic/educational system have the low classes been able to vote in minimum poverty levels, disguised as unemployment benefuts, free health, etc...
Anyway imagine the confusion that would reign if we were all equal..who would pick up after me...or provide personal services...at reasonable prices.

[christianpfc]

if you've got dark skin you must be outside all day which means your working on a farm which means your a peasant which means your low class

Whereas in Europe, a century ago, the poor had to work inside all day and therefore didn't get a lot of sunlight, while the rich had time to be outside during day.


the dark-skinned boys from Isaan have such beautiful skin complexion.

Totally agree. If I was a poet, I would write poems about their skin complexion. But I'm not, so I just quietly admire when I have the chance.


I saw only one group of about 5 dark skinned people, in the shade of a spreading tree, holding brooms and sweeping up leaves.

The situation in France is similar: souvenir seller in front of the Louvre or Versailles and a group of railway workers I once saw are entirely made up of Blacks. I don't know much about statistics, but the chance that ten arbitrarily picked people from the population of France are all black is pretty low.

[thaiguest]

class system, wealth disparity ..etc...exist everywhere, only in the west due to the advanced political/democratic/educational system have the low classes been able to vote in minimum poverty levels, disguised as unemployment benefuts, free health, etc...
Anyway imagine the confusion that would reign if we were all equal..who would pick up after me...or provide personal services...at reasonable prices.
The point in question here is that the native Thais such as the Issarn people are being made second class citizens in their own country by the Han Chinese minority. Yes the ancestors of the Han were invited here as tax collectors before, during and after the reign of King Narai and their wealth as well as their arrogance has accumulated over time but these facts of history do little to ameliorate the inequalities now evident in Thai society.

[latintopxxx]

The BKK Chinese...whatever... have been there long enough to be considered Thai, after all look at the US??...apart from a half dozen Red Indians the rest are all interlopers....point is there will always be a class system of one sort or another...be it caste...colour...wealth....idea is to ensure that one is close to the top of the pyramid...again if we are all equal who will do the less pleasant jobs??

[kittyboy]

I know for a FACT, if you have zero education and want to put in the hours, you can make at least 25,000/month selling BBQ at the market. Anyone can do this too. All it takes is about 15,000 baht start-up capital. And 25k/month isn't anything special, but for someone with say a 4th grade education and no experience, up here in Issan it's pretty decent.


The numbers you toss out that a person can make 25000 selling bbq sounds like bollocks. To make it simple say a person sells bbq chicken breasts for 40 baht. If the cost of goods sold plus overhead is 35 baht per breast then the profit is 5 baht.
25000 baht profit means selling 5000 chicken breasts a month or 167 a day. If a person works 10 hours a day that is 16 per hour or about 1 every 3 or 4 minutes. I have never seen any bbq place that busy.
Your numbers are wrong.

[Hmmm]

"The inequality in income in Thailand is much worse than it should be, given the relative success of the economy over the past generation. A simple way to measure income inequality is to estimate the gap between the top fifth and bottom fifth of the population. In countries like Sweden and Japan, where people value the advantages of living in a relatively equal society, the difference is 3 to 5 times. In Europe and North America, it's 5 to 8 times. Among Thailand's Asian neighbours, it's 9 to 12 times. In Thailand, it's 13 to 15 times. Almost all the countries worse than Thailand are African states with civil wars or Latin American states with endemic populist movements."
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/11/02/opinion/opinion_30115689.php

[latintopxxx]

Hmmm, we can all quote stats...but exactly what afre you trying to say?...the factbthat Bill Gates has more money than I van pole vault over doesn't mean he's that more comfortable than me..after all there's only so many meals one can eat per day....or fancy cars one can drive ...to me the only real stat is how many hours pay does it take to pay the rent...buy a restaurant meal..pay for school fees...and here possibly Thailand doesn't fare too badly.