FIGHT SCHOOL: The boys who live to fight like men

[lonelywombat]

cut and paste from the Heraldsun Melbourne

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/ ... 6422311031 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/the-photos-that-show-little-boys-who-live-to-fight-like-men/story-fnd134gw-1226422311031)

THEY start training from as young as three and begin competing before they are 10, battling it out until they are left bruised and bloodied.

But the parents of these young Muay Thai fighters do not see violence. They see potential financial security.

The shocking pictures, taken two weeks ago in ThailandтАЩs Buriram province, 500km northeast of Bangkok, show boys as young as five engaging in full-blown body combat, resulting in bleeding, bruising and sometimes severe injury.

In some cases the boys are sent to training academies from the age of three where they are trained in Muay Thai, known as the "Art of Eight Limbs", which uses punching, kicking, elbows and knee strikes as opposed to "two points" (fists) in boxing and "four points" (hands and feet) in kickboxing.

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[attachment=3:3cag5jty]328368-box-tha-muay-thai.jpg[/attachment:3cag5jty]


Muay Thai trainers in Australia were shocked at the display and say the full-contact sport is not intended for children that young.

In parts of Thailand, however, it is not uncommon for both boys and girls boys to take part in tournaments in front of hundreds of spectators - all in the name of the countryтАЩs national sport.

Many are sent from poor rural areas to training camps in the hopes the youngsters will become the countryтАЩs fighters of the future.

Gracie Sydney general manager and Muay Thai enthusiast Eduardo Azambuja said the children pictured seemed far too young to compete in full combat sports but acknowledged many of these kids came from absolute poverty and saw it тАЬas their way outтАЭ.

Mr Azambuja said his Sydney-based academy did not allow children to compete in Muay Thai tournaments.

тАЬIn our academy we teach children as young as five, however, I should strongly point out, that the children only strike pads (and) bags and absolutely no contact is allowed between participants, especially to the head,тАЭ he said.

He also pointed out that head trauma and sporting injuries were also possible through other contact sports such as rugby league and Aussie Rules.

Full-combat events between children in Australia have sparked controversy in the past, with one case sparking an investigation.

Eight-year-old Queensland girl Jasmine Par attracted nationwide attention when she took part in a kickboxing event last June.

The daughter of eight-time world champion kickboxer John Wayne Parr was kitted out in headgear, shin pads and 450g gloves for her bout with seven-year-old Georgina "Punchout" Barton.

But the fight, which resulted in a tie, attracted condemnation from the Australian brain injury organisation Synapse which said brain injury could be acquired from minimal force and headgear would not offer complete protection.

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The Queensland government also ordered an investigation into the kickboxing bout and was considering moves to regulate combat sports between children.

[attachment=1:3cag5jty]328884-box-tha-muay-thai.jpg[/attachment:3cag5jty]

It seems very obvious and very basic to me that any contact sport where the sole intention is to inflict pain and/or injury upon your opponent, ought to be banned .

Anybody who finds such a spectacle to be in any way exciting, ought to question their motives.

:occasion9:

[jolyjacktar]

Scottish i agree with you 100%. Also i hate to see kids fighting to entertain the crowds.Infact i hate to see kids fighting fullstop.

[christianpfc]

I find normal boxing highly questionable, but this is disgusting/pervert.

[bruce_nyc]

Ditto.

I had this conversation just two days ago, with my nephew, about normal boxing. I told him that I just don't understand how anyone can watch that crap and call it "entertainment". It seems so obvious to me that it's more of a sickness than it is entertainment. It just baffles me. It's like we haven't come very far since the days of throwing Christians to the lions and calling that, "entertainment".

And they call gays sick.

[joe552]

ditto again - can't understand it at all

[bruce_nyc]

Ya know, in this country, cockfights and dog fights are illegal -- a serious crime, in fact.

But think about it.... Child Fighting is totally legal and ok in Thailand.... well respected, in fact.

I think that is an absolutely hideous form of child abuse.

Where is the outrage from human rights activists on this topic?

Yeah but what about that Mummy Porn book thats all over the newspapers these days Fifty Year Old Grays or something I hear thats all about bondage whats the difference.

Yeah but what about that Mummy Porn book thats all over the newspapers these days Fifty Year Old Grays or something I hear thats all about bondage whats the difference.


Don't really know a great deal about Mummy porn tbh - but how can you compare a work of fiction with the real situation of little kids who don't know any better being forced/indoctrinated into fighting for the amusement of adults?

:dontknow:

[Neal]

I do try to be as honest as possible on the forum. I don't enjoy people, boys, teens or young or old men fighting and getting hurt. I DO enjoy seeing their hot young 1/2 naked bodies, the ripples, legs and the fitness of their bodies. Before anyone speaks while I enjoy it, little boys do not turn me on, fit or unfit. They just have nothing for me. If the law were 12 year olds ok? I still would not look at one cause they have nothing for me. Ok maybe a 17 year old has a hot body once in a while and I will say, shit he's gonna be a looker when he turns 18 but not often. So the bottom line is that when they get into these fights at such an early age while their brains and things are developing, I don't like it one bit because at that age, I am sure it would affect them as they develop their brain etc. Probably affects them at any age but especially at such a young age. :dontknow:

[bruce_nyc]

I agree 100%. Ya know, speaking of boys becoming young men, I was telling one friend about Thailand a couple months ago and he warned me, "That place is famous for child sex tourism, child sex trafficking, etc." I told him, NO. You have it all wrong. Although that stuff does happen in every country to some degree, it seems to me that that happens in the USA more than in Thailand (or at least, just as much). One interesting point of fact that I reminded him: In all three states around NYC --- NY, NJ, and CT --- the legal age of consent for sex is 17. Whereas in Thailand it is 18, I believe. So, it seems, we are MORE tolerant of sex with young people ( at least 17 year olds ) in this country, than they are in Thailand. I'm with you, Neal, I'm not into kids at all. But every once in a while you'll see a 17 year old that really looks 22. (Interestingly, it can often be the opposite in Thailand. You'll sometimes see a 22 year old who looks 17.) I think it's sad that Thailand has this reputation --- at least in the minds of some Westerners --- as being "full of pedophiles and child sex trafficking". Of course, the Western media does a great job of promoting lies and exaggerating beyond belief, on certain topics they can sensationalize. And whenever they do some sort of a grand "expose" on such a topic, have you noticed that it's ALWAYS a female producer...? It really makes you wonder what their hidden agenda is.

To be frank, I really dont give a shit what their agenda is - I'm afraid my position is that people that say stuff like bruce has reported can just go fuck themselves and I'll continue living my life.

You won't change their opinion no matter what you say and how much you point out the flaws in their argument.

A bit like the poster known as ............................. :sign5:

[springco]

In all three states around NYC --- NY, NJ, and CT --- the legal age of consent for sex is 17.

For the sake of accuracy, I would like to correct you. The legal age of consent in New Jersey and Connecticut is 16. In New York it is 17.

[bruce_nyc]

Wow. So, there ya go...

Here in NJ & CT it's 16.

In Thailand, it's 18.

Yet Thailand is thought of as, "home to pedophiles and child sex trafficking".

Go figure.

[Neal]

Well I think it is because there are ares that are known here in Thailand to have 12 and 13 year olds who regularly work in the bars and disappear when the cops come a calling. Here in Thailand the young children are taught by their families and farang what they must do to earn money.
Many of the 18 year olds here because of their soft smooth bodies appear to be younger than 18 and therefore even if partially satisfy the pedophiles urge and desire. Also here it is well known that if they get caught with an underage boy or girl there is a good possibility that they can buy their way out or get across the boarder before trial. Please let's be careful about this discussion so it doesn't have to be closed, ok? :8(

...Please let's be careful about this discussion so it doesn't have to be closed, ok? :8(


Having just ramped it up about 10 gears with your post, it's a bit rich to talk about being careful about what we say! :sign5:

[thailuv]

looking at the muscle definition of these little kids I really have to wonder about their training regime and the possibility of steroid use. Maybe I am underestimating their age (I hope so)

[witchhunt]

Wow. So, there ya go...

Here in NJ & CT it's 16.

In Thailand, it's 18.

Yet Thailand is thought of as, "home to pedophiles and child sex trafficking".

Go figure.

Not quite as accurate. In Thailand on their birthday the boy assumes the next eldest year. So the boys allowed into bars as 18, are in fact only 17 in US and UK [and elsewhere] terms

Witchunt is correct that immediately on their birthday many SE Asian boys (not just Thai) think of themselves as entering the next year of their lives - for example when my BF (not Thai) turned 19 he immediately said "Now I'm 20".
Once he said that, I dumped him of course j/k.

However, I presume that this is all about attitudes and not about legality - I cannot believe that any farang Bar Owner would take into account anything except the Date of Birth stated on the boy's ID card when calculating his age. Thai bar owners? I don't know.

[arsenal]

Sorry to disagree with all of you and probably make some of you furious but I think this is ok, with the exception of it being shown as entertainment. Looking at the pictures I can't see any bruises or blood and those gloves look huge so are unlikely to lead to any real injury. It lookd pretty controlled with referees, corner people etc. This has been part of Thai culture for hundreds of years. It is well known that Muay Thai is the most effective of all the martial arts, in part because they train from such a young age.
There will be a life of glory and considerable wealth for those who are good. Even for those who are not quite good enough to turn professional,,,well,,,by the time they are 17 or 18 they need never fear anyone. They will be strong, fit and this will sharpen their minds as well as their already muscular bodies.
Do I want to watch it? NO, absolutely not. Is it entertaining? Again NO.
All too easy to dissmiss this without looking at the broader picture. The choice for some of these will be the rice farm, gogo boy or Muay Thai. Which would you choose?
I await approbrium in excelcius.

... I think this is ok, with the exception of it being shown as entertainment. Looking at the pictures I can't see any bruises or blood....

I know they say wanking makes you go blind Arsenal - so look closely again at the first photo - is it raspberry jam the kid is spitting out?

But quite apart from that тАУ the ultimate object of the тАЬsportтАЭ known as boxing is to injure your opponent to the extent that he is rendered physically incapable of defending himself.
ThatтАЩs not OK in my book even between adults never mind kids.

:occasion9:

[Manforallseasons]

It does not comply with western social norms, but it's Thailand and it complys with their social norms so I can't be judgmental.

Speaking of social norms google "rites of passage Sambian tribes".

MFAS - just because it may be "accepted" by Thais does not mean I have to personally approve of it.
That's like saying since the Netherlands and Sweden permit incest*, then anybody visiting or living there should consider it perfectly acceptable.
And I don't approve of pushing sharpened sticks up a boy's nostrils until he bleeds profusely either - as in the example you give.

:occasion9:

* Wikipedia

[Manforallseasons]

MFAS - just because it may be "accepted" by Thais does not mean I have to personally approve of it.
That's like saying since the Netherlands and Sweden permit incest*, then anybody visiting or living there should consider it perfectly acceptable.
And I don't approve of pushing sharpened sticks up a boy's nostrils until he bleeds profusely either - as in the example you give.

:occasion9:

* Wikipedia

Silly boy, read on you missed the highlite! :occasion9:

No, no - I know what the highlights were I just didn't want to over excite the frail old queens on the board by mentioning them - one stroke is enough surely.

:sign5:

[bruce_nyc]

This leads to the interesting question...

If the culture and customs of a local "people" / community / culture / tribe / whatever.... condone / promote / accept / encourage a certain activity....

Is it ok for you, as someone visiting there, to partake in such local customs...?

Even if that activity would be considered wrong back in your own culture?

Of course, this could apply to anything... from eating cockroaches or dog meat or child boxing.... to just about anything.

Or it could apply to someone from a country or state with an higher age of consent... visiting a country or state with a lower age of consent.

This question could even apply to a citizen of Morocco visiting Canada and getting married in a gay wedding... even though back home, he might be sentenced to prison or stoned to death for participating in something like that.

Or any other thing.

Is it ok to partake in local customs when those customs would be considered wrong or illegal back in your home country?

[joe552]

Interesting question, bruce. For me the difference is between something that's wrong and something that's illegal. For example, different age of consent laws might mean that it's legal to have sex with a 17 year old in one place, but that would be illegal in another place. However, it is wrong to have sex with a 10 year old everywhere. I don't think it's ok to travel to another country to do something which is plain wrong, whatever it might be.

Ah but Joe - what is"wrong" is entirely subjective.

Forget the 10yos - that's too simplistic (no offence) because the vast majority would agree that's "wrong".

If we think instead of middle aged/elderly men travelling to foreign countries to pay legal-aged, poorly educated, "boys" to have sex with them, there is a veritable swathe of opinion in most home countries that would say it's "wrong".
Yet I regard it as acceptable.
I could even take it further by relating it to Thailand specifically where such activity would not only be regarded by many as wrong but is in fact also illegal - yet I have no moral or ethical problem with it


:dontknow:

[joe552]

indeed, scottish-guy - I think we're both on the same page here. my example was perhaps a little too obvious. I agree with what you say.

This board is becoming almost intellectual these days! :sign5:

[bruce_nyc]

Sometimes the thing might be morally ok, but technically illegal...

Sometimes the thing might be technically legal, but morally wrong...

Also... there are two places in question.... "where you're from" and "where you are visiting".

The thing might be legal here, but not legal there...

Or the thing might be considered morally ok here, but morally despicable there...

Then there's the question of... WHO considers it morally ok.....? Maybe you do. Or not. Maybe they consider it ok here. Or not. Maybe they consider it ok there. Or not.

It gets a bit complicated.

[joe552]

This board is becoming almost intellectual these days! :sign5:

the key word being almost

bruce, I blame you for asking these tough questions - can we get back to the standard "how much is an off and what's the minimum tip I can get away with" questions we're all so comfortable with :occasion9:

[christianpfc]

They will be strong, fit and this will sharpen their minds as well as their already muscular bodies.

I don't think boxing is good for their brain. And if "food additives" are involved, they will sooner or later have negative effects on their health.

Christian, well done for pointing this out, I missed it:


They will be strong, fit and this will sharpen their minds...

Oh come on, Arsenal - there's even a medical condition named after what happens to many boxers after years of head blows- Dementia Pugilistica

The American Association of Neurological Surgeons says that 90% of boxers will have sustained a brain injury by the end of their careers.

I'm thinking back to people like Tommy Hearns, Muhammad Ali, Jerry and Mike Quarry, Ken Norton, Joe Louis, Gerald McClellan, Michael Watson, and many, many more - far from having their brains sharpened, they had them scrambled

:occasion9: :occasion9:

[bruce_nyc]

Wow. That's so sad.

How is it we always end up on such depressing topics...

[Sooty]

Is it ok to partake in local customs when those customs would be considered wrong or illegal back in your home country?I always enjoy snorting coke in Portugal or, until recently, smoking dope in the Netherlands where, incidentally my long-term Dutch boyfriend was recently euthenased. Does that answer your question?

How is it we always end up on such depressing topics...

Well Bruce, the thing is - we look at your photo and then we look at ourselves - hence the depression.

:crybaby:

[ainamor]

I in fact sponsored a boy for his education through a UK charity from his tenth birthday for seven years for his education who was a Muay Thai boxer and lived at one of the Pattaya boxing camps. A number of times attempts were made to try and persuade the boy to give up boxing but he would rather have given up his education than the boxing - he simply loved it and the comradeship and the dicipline it brought.

These boys, contrary to popular belief, are treated very well and cared for, after all they need to be fit and happy with what they are doing if they are to win. I visited the camp a number of times and spoke to the boys and whilst the training regime was certainly tough the boys enjoyed it.

The boy I sponsored has now gone on to college and his GPA is 3.9/4 so boxing for 8 years since the age of 9 has done him no harm and also instilled in him a sense of discipline thanks to the training.

Personally I enjoy boxing, I boxed for 6 years for my school and my nephew aged 15 has been boxing for one of London's top boxing clubs since he was 7. Neither of us had parents that fully approved of the sport at the beginning but the benefits both physical and mental that the sport brings are in 99.99% of the cases well worth it.

Of course there are going to be injuries, just as there are in horse racing, rugby, football, motor racing, the list goes on.

....Of course there are going to be injuries, just as there are in horse racing, rugby, football, motor racing, the list goes on.

Maybe you can correct me- but I was unaware that, in the sports you mention, the primary objective was to inflict pain and injury on your opponent to the point at which they become unable to defend themselves or, even "better", to the point at which they are knocked to the floor completely incapactitated, whilst all the time being goaded from the sidelines by a bunch of comparatively well-heeled spectators who find the sight of blood exciting.

I think you'll find that the list doesn't go on at all - it's extremely short, thankfully.
The fact that some people enjoy it is neither here nor there.

[ainamor]

The primary objective in boxing is to score points which is why the majority of contests are decided on a points decision. In junior Muay Thai boxing contests rarely reach the point where an opponent is unable to continue, they may decide to concede a match but rarely do they end in a knock-out or stoppage through injury. I have attended contests where one of the contestants has conceded defeat not through injury but through knowing that his opponent has scored more points than he can make up and exceed.

I have during my sponsorship spoken to dozens of kids at the boxing camp as my visits were frequent when I was working in Chonburi and none have ever shown anything but enthusiasm for the sport. Also of course the boys get the added status of being known as a Muay That boxer, something that is admired by their peers.

[Manforallseasons]

Famous boxer, after a match.

[joe552]

looks more like Sumo to me :dontknow:

[Manforallseasons]

looks more like Sumo to me :dontknow:

Your obviously not an authority on Traditional baby Thai boxing. (-:

....The primary objective in boxing is to score points which is why the majority of contests are decided on a points decision.

Well I know that - but the points are achieved by inflicting pain on your opponent - and try as you might you won't convince any right-minded person otherwise. Further, the higher up the ladder a boxer goes the more pressure there is on him to "injure or else be injured"



...I have during my sponsorship spoken to dozens of kids .. none have ever shown anything but enthusiasm for the sport. Also of course the boys get the added status of being known as a Muay That boxer, something that is admired by their peers.

Whether the kids enjoy it or not is not the point - they do not wake up one day and think "oh, I think I'll be a boxer" - they are encouraged and coerced into it primarily by older relatives at a time in their lives when they do not have the capacity to make an informed judgement.

There are plenty of things kids might enjoy, but we don't allow them to do, for various reasons - they may well enjoy playing chicken on the main road but we don't encourage it because we know the dangers, whereas the kids are oblivious to them.

Finally - if I ever see people who were born poor queueing up to watch people who were born rich knock fuck out of each other in a boxing ring, then I might believe that this so-called "sport" is something other than exploitation of the poor and (generally) ill-educated for the amusement of richer people who get a kick out of watching violence from the safety of the sidelines.

:occasion9:

[bruce_nyc]

Wow. THAT is really a profound point, Scottish.

Seriously.

When was the last time you saw poor people line up to watch rich people kick the crap out of each other?

Rich people risking injury for the entertainment of poor people....?

If that existed I could fill Madison Square Garden many times over..... and not only by Occupy Wall Street'ers.

[Rush, Yet Again]

Manny Pacquiao received $26 million for his match with Timothy Bradley last month. Estimates are there were 1.2 million PPV subscribers watching the fight.

Forbes Magazine released its annual top 100 highest-paid athletes last month and boxers Floyd Mayweather, Jr. and Manny Pacquiao top the list at 1 and 2.

[christianpfc]

smoking dope in the Netherlands where, incidentally my long-term Dutch boyfriend was recently euthenased. Does that answer your question?

Euthenased, like in euthanasia (assisted death)? Can you please elaborate?

[anonone]

Wow. THAT is really a profound point, Scottish.

Seriously.

When was the last time you saw poor people line up to watch rich people kick the crap out of each other?

Rich people risking injury for the entertainment of poor people....?

If that existed I could fill Madison Square Garden many times over..... and not only by Occupy Wall Street'ers.

Sounds like an episode of Celebrity Apprentice...though I think the one time I watched it I was caused more pain than anyone else. :tongue3:

When was the last time you saw poor people line up to watch rich people kick the crap out of each other?Poor people everywhere do what they have to to earn a living boxing prostition same same what sort of world do you live in that you dont know that?

[bruce_nyc]

Poor people everywhere do what they have to to earn a living boxing prostition same same what sort of world do you live in that you dont know that?

Of course, you're right.

But I won't patronize boxing. I won't give my money to support violence. I'll give my money to lovers... not fighters. :ink:

Bruce is absolutely correct - we all know that poor people are exploited but, where we have a choice, we don't have to support it - what sort of world does Brisbaneguy live in that he can't figure that out for himself?

:occasion9:

[ainamor]

Bruce is absolutely correct - we all know that poor people are exploited but, where we have a choice, we don't have to support it -
:occasion9:

So are you acknowledging that it is Ok for you to exploit boys those are from poor families and have turned to prostitution and the inherent dangers that involves to earn money because that is your choice?

[bruce_nyc]

Everyone who does Every job for money is "being exploited".... because they were "poor" enough that they had to "turn to" that profession. Manicurists, Hotel Staff, Plumbers, Bus Drivers, everyone. Hell, probably every one of us is "exploited" by someone... who pays us to do the work that we do.... so that we have the income that we have.

It still doesn't mean that I am going to give my money to people doing something I don't believe in.

Personally, I have no moral problem with prostitution as a career choice for anyone.

But paying to watch people injure each other, I cannot support.

Bruce is absolutely correct - we all know that poor people are exploited but, where we have a choice, we don't have to support it -
:occasion9:

So are you acknowledging that it is Ok for you to exploit boys those are from poor families and have turned to prostitution and the inherent dangers that involves to earn money because that is your choice?

Yes, that's exactly right - so what?

We all live in the big wide world - we all make choices - I make mine, you make yours - I don't support yours, so feel free not to support mine - except I'm guessing you are perfectly happy to support my choice vis a vis using prostitutes, so what's your point :dontknow:

As for the "inherent danger" that a prostitute may get hit, punched, kicked, or in some way injured - yes I suppose that's possible - but in the so-called "sport" you are supporting, it's an inherent certainty.

:occasion9:

[christianpfc]

Strange is, sometimes the very same people who watch football, boxing, car race and other sports, later bitch about unreasonably high earnings of the professionals involved in that sport. They don't realize that they pay for this!

While you could argue that there are a lot of politicians and managers who do not create any value for the country for the money they earn, I think they deserve higher income than sportsmen.

[roger62]

We can all say what we think about this (sport??) but we are in their country. We can wring our hands and say its wrong.We can no more change this than kids playing American football and other contact sports. Its all about money in the end. Myself Id rather be a boxer than prostitute myself to the likes of me.

[dab69]

ooh, ooh, ooh.

Older Muay Thai Boxer/Go Go bar with the guys wearing numbers.
After the show you can invite them to sit with you for a drink
and if things "click"...

[Dodger]

Regardless if you enjoy the sport or not the fact remains that the young Thai boys do in fact love it and so do millions of marshal arts enthusists around the world. It's not my cup of tea at all - but then again I'm not one of the boys who love it so my opinion then becomes a bit meaningless.

I just hope they're wearing steel-reinforced jock straps to avoid having their true potential disrupted.

Bruce is absolutely correct - we all know that poor people are exploited but, where we have a choice, we don't have to support it - what sort of world does Brisbaneguy live in that he can't figure that out for himself?Yeah right Ill stop offing boys in Thailand right away.

[DamienZ]

Great photos of the boys in the clinch. Crisp, tack sharp.

[bruce_nyc]

Did you guys see the "Sunday Funnies"...? http://bangkokbois.wordpress.com/2012/07/15/sunday-funnies-18/ :ow: