Why Boys are deserting Pattaya

[SlaveDriver]

I am not surprised by the latest visits reportsabout lack guys at the bars.

In the past 2 weeks I have heard from ex-pattaya guys both working at the bars and clubs that either they are leaving to their villages or most of them have gone to Bangkok looking for jobs.

I have never heard of such a large scale migration of sex workers from Pattaya.

Have I not written about Rebranding/Restructuring/Reforming the gay business in Pattaya 6 months ago. Times have changed. Expectations of "Y" generations are different for the "Baby-Boomers".

Hear me out, this is just the start unless you get innovative. Don't be like RIM. Their shares are less than 10 Dollars today ....... matter of time before they are shut down.

Have some business sense and change. Otherwise get out and make room for innovative investors.

Have fun guys :party

[joe552]

Isn't it time you stopped flogging this particular dead horse? :dontknow:

I don't know what you're hoping to achieve, but your periodic rants about the death of Pattaya are just boring now.

[stevehadders]

"Make room for innovative investors"???
You really think there are a mass of such people just waiting to be invited to do business in Pattaya? From entrepeneurs I know if there is an opening they do it, with no regard for existing traders.
If you have a magic formula...please do share
or maybe Mr Slave Driver you are going to surprise us and open up your own successful business to bring innovation to the market?

How can you expect to be taken seriously when you talk of RIM to a bunch of queens?

:party

[christianpfc]

Don't be like RIM. Their shares are less than 10 Dollars today ....... matter of time before they are shut down.

Who or what?

[bucknaway]

Talking to a friend of mine in Bangkok, things are not so great there either. He is a guide and this year I heard him mention too many times that there were not many tourist.

I think Pattaya is serving as a warning of things to come in the gay vacation areas of Thailand. It does not help that the baht is strong and the vendors are demanding a larger amount for their goods and services.

This is also the online age and people are being sent im's and emails of love from people much closer than Thailand.

There are even places that drug users can go and use drugs, get sex and not have to worry about life in prison.

The Internet has made the world a smaller place and has shown a light on closer destinations that offer what that particular traveler is looking for.

Now maybe there are not a lot of Thai guys in the bars but there are a hell of a lot of them online.

[cdnmatt]

Thailand's economy is booming, and the middle class is expanding. Number of tourists is also down. Why stick around?

[gregvc]

growing middle class in BKK has lead to so many saunas springing up. Why pay guys who blatantly do not want to have sex with you when there are real gay guys (office workers, military, uni students) in BKK searching for a good time without pay.

"It does not help that the baht is strong" I think it must be the American dollar that is weak my dollar is still getting 32 baht and has been around that level for months and months.

[bucknaway]

I'm waiting for the days to return of when I was getting 41 baht to the dollar.

[cdnmatt]

I'm waiting for the days to return of when I was getting 41 baht to the dollar.

And a beer at a bar was 80 baht, instead of 150.

[kjun12]

I never thought I would ever advise anyone to read something bucknaway wrote but now I find myself doing so. What he has written above is on point and seems very accurate. Thailand is run by a group of self-serving fools who don't give a shit what problems they cause as long as they have or think they can attain power and personal wealth. Thai politicians are the lowest of the low.

After reading the above, I am ashamed to admit that this can be said of my homeland, the USA, also. They are just now as open and crass as their Thai counterparts.

[kittyboy]

In the past 2 weeks I have heard from ex-pattaya guys both working at the bars and clubs that either they are leaving to their villages or most of them have gone to Bangkok looking for jobs.

Hear me out, this is just the start unless you get innovative. Don't be like RIM. Their shares are less than 10 Dollars today ....... matter of time before they are shut down.

The end is near. Physicists have recently declared they have detected the so called god particle the higgs boson. With god having been seen, can jesus be very far behind? And that is the end of the world. Are the boys are going home getting ready for the rapture?

Nutters have been predicting the end of the world forever..we keep sticking around. I suspect sunee and boyztown are bit like the world, they still have some life left in them..even though the alarmists may feel differently.

I have to give you credit though for using one of the most obscure references to make your point. RIM is research in motion the parent company of the blackberry which has been in decline for the last few years.

[Impulse]

Maybe during low season, but high season seems fine to me. plenty of bois to keep me busy...and I'm very picky.
Should we get their numbers before leaving? Just in case they go home and don't come back.

[pong]

top dear Bucknaway and/or other always claiming this: an you please tell me to what places/countries those assumed enormous crowds of gay tourists now flock to? Here in Europe former well-known gay resorts, like Ibiza and Mykonos are also slowly ''drying out''.
amnd to the one writing about his BF as guide having bad bisnis: change markets! The actual nr of tourists coming into TH is rising-pretty fast- Chinese, Russky, etc., and do not forget the Gulfies. That nr of Tripadvisor toting over-anxious people who seem to think they are completely lost without a guide are diminishing.
Re the Thai way of doing bisnis: it strikes me that more and more warnings I see about Th going the same way as GR(eece): with a fixed rate of exchange, slowly getting more and more expensive to its main markets, whereas its people think they can reap money of a property bubble or other blaze from smart Chinese propping up some stuff and hence have to do nothing eklse-untill shit strikes and noone is wiling anymore to lend them money.

[kjun12]

The actual nr of tourists coming into TH is rising-pretty fast- Chinese, Russky, etc., and do not forget the Gulfies.

And, Mr. pong, where did you get the statistics to make this assertion? Is it just your beliefs?

[martin911]

Walking around Pattaya will give you enough statistics re the russians -- they are EVERYWHERE !!

I would not like to see what the place would be like without them -- this is just an estimate but i would put the % of Russian visitors at well over 50%

anybody else care to estimate the %

[fountainhall]

Pong is indeed correct that arrivals are on the increase. Several sources confirm this. Although one should not trust all government statistics, this article from the Pubic Relations department with statistics from April 2012 is pretty specific. It reveals a near-7% increase over a year earlier, despite a drop in cross-border Malaysian tourists. It was suggested that this could have been due to a car bombing in Hat Yai on March 31st.

Anyone who doubts that the Chinese are coming, should realise that they are already here. Arrivals from China totalled 196,192 - an increase of 42.12% year on year - and China has replaced Malaysia as the largest source of foreign visitors. Millions more will be following sooner rather than later. Russia, Korea and India also showed impressive increases.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l597/fountainhall/1213794015p.jpg
http://thailand.prd.go.th/view_news.php?id=6291&a=4

Whilst tourism overall seems to be up, the figures alone do not explain why gay tourism to the regular gay haunts is down.

[gaymandenmark]

Whilst tourism overall seems to be up, the figures alone do not explain why gay tourism to the regular gay haunts is down.

I think it is quite simpel.
The now old queers who travelled to Pattaya are literally a dying race or on a maybe small pension.
Young gay people have no interest in the meat market of Pattaya. It is just not their style.

[francois]

Maybe so gaymandenmark, but today's young gays are tomorrows old queers as you phrased it. So the supply of older gentlemen in search of the fountain of Thai youth should be endless. But the decrease in pensions and wealth may be the real reason.

yeah arrivals from Australia are down plenty of Asian students here who sell themselves for $100 no need to pay for the airfare and hotel straight brothels are full of Asian girls and plenty of boys around too if you know where to look.

[a447]

As I mentioned in my posts from Bangkok in April, the Asian tourists are everywhere, making up most of the clientele in the Soi Twilight bars. That fact just reinforces the figures in the table posted by fountainhall.
They seem to be mainly Chinese, with a few Japanese thrown in for good measure. You can easily tell the Japanese guys - they seem to be always drunk and literally throwing their money around the bar. Not much different from back in Japan really. hehe...
Despite a very active gay scene, there is nothing like the gogo bars in Japan. And certainly not in China, so once word gets around, I'm sure there will be lots more Chinese guys sitting in the bars. They arrive in groups, so maybe there are travel agencies in China sending the gays down to Bangkok. Even though the well-off middle class is small in percentage terms, that still adds up to millions of horny guys looking for fun.
I guess they don't visit Pattaya, as they can get all the sex they want in BKK.
The euro has fallen considerably, so that may be why a lot of older farang guys can't afford to come to LOS. Plus the economic woes, etc. But the exchange rate against the Aussie dollar is still good. And the economy is doing really well, so I don't see why Aussie numbers have fallen. Perhaps they go to Bali for gay sex.

[bucknaway]

With the large percentage of men in China, they don't have to come to thailand for guys lol

[Beachlover]

Isn't it time you stopped flogging this particular dead horse? :dontknow:

I don't know what you're hoping to achieve, but your periodic rants about the death of Pattaya are just boring now.
SlaveDriver's just a harmless comic... let him be. I think his neurotic rants are comical.


to the one writing about his BF as guide having bad bisnis: change markets! The actual nr of tourists coming into TH is rising-pretty fast- Chinese, Russky, etc., and do not forget the Gulfies.
I agree with the number of tourists rising. It's probably just the commercial sex scene in Pattaya falling. New hotels are popping up in Bangkok like there's no tomorrow.

Targeting the Chinese might be the way to go. You'd want to seek out the right channels to reach and engage that audience effectively, particularly social media mediums popular in Mainland China. Run all promotional campaigns in Chinese language and ensure your business is Chinese language friendly and try to cater to their habits and things they're used to.


I think it is quite simpel.
The now old queers who travelled to Pattaya are literally a dying race or on a maybe small pension.
Young gay people have no interest in the meat market of Pattaya. It is just not their style.
Nail on the head... I agree.

[TravellerDave]

Scanning through this thread I largely agree with the impression given of a decline in the commercial gay scene in Pattaya (GoGos, Host Bars and gay hotels). It certainly was quiet when I made my last trip in July, although there was always plenty of boys offering their services on GR. In fact as I type I see 184 users on GR between 18 and 30 claiming to be in Pattaya.
One piece of information that suprises me is the 47.9% increase in visitors from the UK as shown by a previous post. This contrasts with reductions in visitors from Australia and the US. I wonder why this is so ?.

[ceejay]

One piece of information that suprises me is the 47.9% increase in visitors from the UK as shown by a previous post. This contrasts with reductions in visitors from Australia and the US. I wonder why this is so ?.

If you follow the link to the page from which the table was extracted, the text contains the following:

Europe also posted an impressive growth of 16.9% (465,557). All identified source countries recorded growth, but arrivals from the United Kingdom dropped as much as 16.32% (73,402)
I'm not at all sure what that means, but a 16% drop seems less surprising than a 47% increase to me.

[TravellerDave]

There are some question marks over these figures. I wonder if the figure for Europe includes Russia as most of it is part of Europe. I don't believe the figure for the UK should be much different to those of say Germany or France, as the same factors apply.
Certainly over the last few years there has been a huge increase in Russian visitors but by and large they are not seen in the bars girly or gay. Asian tour parties are also in evidence in large numbers.

[Oliver]

There were only about twelve gay establishments in Boyztown when I first came to Pattaya; there were a few more scattered around North Pattaya and what's now Sunee. Of course the bars were full of customers....there were times when it was hard to find a seat in Cockpit or Boyz. And full of dancers, too I recall.

It may be true that the number of gay visitors is down but merely observing the numbers in bars is hardly the best way to find out.

By the way, at that time I was getting 37 bht to the pound.

Oliver, I'm sure you're correct in your memory of the early Pattaya bars etc.

But, if counting the numbers in the gay bars is not a good way of judging any decline, short of asking Immigration to give all queens a Pink Visa stamp - I don't know what else we could do :dontknow: any suggestions?

Can you tell us when you were getting 37B to the ┬г?
I find this interesting as presumably the Thai economy in those days was weaker than now?
Unless it was in the mid/late 70's when the British economy was going down the pan and Denis Healey was begging the IMF for bail-outs (something conveniently forgotten by the Rule Britannia mob who currently point and laugh at Greece etc) ?


:hello2:

[Beachlover]

Interesting way to narrow down the cause would be to ask whether the straight commercial sex industry is undergoing a similar decline in Pattaya as the gay one is. Are the female prostitutes deserting Pattaya at the same rate as the male ones?

[Oliver]

scottish-guy; my first visit was in 1995. The exchange rate was in in the mid to high thirties. Before long, the "Tiger economies" collapsed , Bangkok was full of half-completed buildings...and the exchange rate rocketed to 60 plus bht to the pound.

I have many memories of those days....I shall wait for a more appropriate thread!

[SimpleSoul]

Hopefully, the reported decline of money boys is explained by their desire to do work which protects their self esteem and avoids them selling their bodies. I certainly would hope this is the main reason for any decline.

Hopefully, the reported decline of money boys is explained by their desire to do work which protects their self esteem and avoids them selling their bodies....

I'd be interested to know what evidence you have that the boys have low self-esteem, other than your own view that it must be the case simply because they are involved in prostitution.

I could make an equal valid assertion that the Clients, having to pay for sex, must suffer from low self-esteem and are being exploited for being old and unattractive.

Without evidence, we can all make a case.

Whilst the shape and form of the world's oldest profession may change over time, and whether you like it or not, the fact is it's here to stay.

[christianpfc]

I wonder if the figure for Europe includes Russia as most of it is part of Europe.
Most of the area of Russia is in Asia, most of its population lives in the European part of Russia.

[Beachlover]

Come on Scottish... SimpleSoul was making a positive out of what's being seen as a negative situation. I don't think it's too far fetched to say it's not the healthiest of professions.

Your "equally valid assertion" is fair enough

[TravellerDave]

Perhaps they are making loads of money appearing in Internet porn sites such as privateboymovie (my favourite)
I only once came across one boy who I recognised whonwas working in one of the JomTien Centre bars. I couldn't get him to talk about his porn career but he was interested to see the movie displayed on my laptop in my room.
Have any members come across models ?.

[lexusgs]

Dave,

The guy who owns and operates that site is a real slimeball. He's a Scandinavian though lives in Germany. Pays the guys he uses peanuts and drugs them up to the eyeballs before
he begins his filming. Most he pays 100 EUR and the more extreme 200 EUR. Nasty piece of work. I'm not knocking your opinion but I certainly would n't be funding his website.

[TravellerDave]

Really ? 100 or even 200 euro seems a paltry amount for being fu cked to appear on a porno site . I would have guessed four or five times that amount. I wonder how many subscribers the site has ?. I've paid twice to get updates. It's a substitute for live Thai boys when I'm back home.

The bottom has fallen out of the porn industry :ura1:

Performer's rates are a fraction of what they were even 10 yrs ago.

The reason is simple - millions are making (or capturing) their own porn an uploading it on to free sites - or, if it's good enough, selling it on Pay Per View to the likes of Xtube.

Many viewers prefer the amateur and webcam stuff anyway. Look again at some of those scripted "big budget" American movies from the 70's/80's such as "The Bigger They Come" - you'd be more likely to piss yourself laughing at the "script" nowadays than get excited by the content.

I can't remember the last time I actually bought an original porn DVD - and if you look at them in Sex Shops, the prices have fallen from ridiculously high to bargain basement over the years

:party

[lexusgs]

SG is corrrect on his main points. There are so many platforms nowadays where you can enjoy porn if that floats your boat.That drives the prices down for the performers. The other problem with the industry is that the customer tends to look for more and more extreme acts to get satisfied. The site you mention suffers from the same problem. Started off fairly mild and now is just getting a little more extreme. Like I said most of the guys are 'off their head' therefore agree to do whaever they are asked to do. Not great really.

[Neal]

Getting back on topic, why must there always be some big drama into what is a natural occurrence? Its simple. There are not the numbers of falang as there were years ago and therefore there is not the total amount of money in the different areas to sustain the amount of boys there were years ago. almost like a (taking the figures at random) 60% drop in falang would equal about a 60% drop in boys as there is too little money if we had the same amount. Same like The Circle of Life. As the food stocks go down for certain species to eat (bad comparison) there will need to be less of that species in order for it to survive.

[Manforallseasons]

DaBoss is correct, simply a case of supply and demand nothing more nothing less!

[TravellerDave]

What Daboss says about the reduced numbers of "traditional" tourists is undoutedly true. I,ve seen it with my own eyes. I am thinking here of the Falang aged 45+ from Europe, Australia or North America who is looking for cheap sex or a relationship with attractive younger Thais.
Why has this happened ?. Is it the economic down-turn or pension difficulties. Or maybe the novelty has worn off. Another factor is that due to the strength of the Thai baht the place is not such good value as before. Yet another theory advanced by str sex tourists is that the girls are not so attractive as hitherto.
On the other hand couples and families still seem to be flooding to Thailand as anyone can see by visiting Walking St in the evening. The problem for bar owners is that Boris and Natasha from Omsk are not coming in.

[gaymandenmark]

I saied it before, sorry to much g/t, but, but young farangs gays has no interrest in the meatmarket of Pattaya, as I said we are a duying race.
But why it so different from the straigt market on any corner. ???
is it something wrong in their gay busineess polities? :drunken:

[aot871]

I still think its the drink prices , even those at just the beer bars, If you go by any of the girlie beer bars nth of second road near central mall , you can see the beer prices at around 45 to 55 bht a bottle ,but most of the beer bars catering to the gay market price their drinks well above these prices. Due to the lower stock market prices , most retired farang are now getting a lower income by way of pensions etc , and have had to cut down on overseas travel , or even those living here seem to have curtailed the number of their nights out per week

[Oliver]

There is a huge difference between those of us who grew up in the 50s and 60s and the younger generation. Pattaya provided opportunities that were denied to us in our youth. Now that we are ageing, we do not fit in with the gay scene at home and Thailand still gives us a taste (sic) of what we never had at home.
To put it bluntly, the young do not need to travel thousands of miles to express their sexuality.

[Neal]

I still think its the drink prices , even those at just the beer bars, If you go by any of the girlie beer bars nth of second road near central mall , you can see the beer prices at around 45 to 55 bht a bottle ,but most of the beer bars catering to the gay market price their drinks well above these prices. Due to the lower stock market prices , most retired farang are now getting a lower income by way of pensions etc , and have had to cut down on overseas travel , or even those living here seem to have curtailed the number of their nights out per week

To put it nicely, cut the crap. If what you said were true they would be pouring into Sunee and Jomtien Complex rather than pouring out. In Sunee it is not uncommon to find 50 baht drink prices and you are telling me that they are all in those bars? Crap. When we at HP run 99 baht specials, they break down the door? Crap. Oh sure they have 6 - 12 customers but at 50 baht they batter be saving those bottles to recycle etc or they won't even be able to pay their electric.

First buy a bar then give advice after 6 - 8 months!

[firecat69]

I still think its the drink prices , even those at just the beer bars, If you go by any of the girlie beer bars nth of second road near central mall , you can see the beer prices at around 45 to 55 bht a bottle ,but most of the beer bars catering to the gay market price their drinks well above these prices. Due to the lower stock market prices , most retired farang are now getting a lower income by way of pensions etc , and have had to cut down on overseas travel , or even those living here seem to have curtailed the number of their nights out per week

To put it nicely, cut the crap. If what you said were true they would be pouring into Sunee and Jomtien Complex rather than pouring out. In Sunee it is not uncommon to find 50 baht drink prices and you are telling me that they are all in those bars? Crap. When we at HP run 99 baht specials, they break down the door? Crap. Oh sure they have 6 - 12 customers but at 50 baht they batter be saving those bottles to recycle etc or they won't even be able to pay their electric.

First buy a bar then give advice after 6 - 8 months!

What a novel idea. Before giving advice on how to run a Bar , buy one so you can know what you are talking about.. That is exactly what a number of people have done over the last few years and most of them are closed now.

I have owned 3 Bars that did $1,000,000 and more a year in the USA and I hesitate to give advice here on running a bar except for certain things like lower the music and no smoking. Other then that I don't really know what the expenses and margins are in Thailand and try not to give advice on running a bar in Thailand.

Just from being around them for many years in Thailand, I perceive it is very hard to make a profit in the GoGo Bar business with all the expenses that most customers don't think about. I think it may be considerably easier to make a profit in a Beer Bar although the profit is really only what you would expect to be paid for running the place.

[gaymandenmark]

But even if it might be OT, is it not true that the drinks are generally cheaper in the commercial streight bars, than in the equal gay bars?
Of course there could be a lot of reasons for that, maybe if it is just to much supply than demand, we could change the topic into "Why are gay customers deserting Pattaya?"

[Neal]

Yes Denmark you can certainly say that drinks are cheaper in straight bars than gay bars and I am sure we all know the reason for that one.
It's because the ratio of gay customers vs straight customers is what (?) the same or different? Well if it is 10% gay to 90% straight that means that straight bars would have 90% more customers. I also don't think these straight venues put on shows Many reasons why their drinks can be cheaper.

[Marsilius]

But even if it might be OT, is it not true that the drinks are generally cheaper in the commercial streight bars, than in the equal gay bars?

The off prices, though, are cheaper for boys than for girls - so it might be a case of swings and roundabouts.

[aot871]

I have never run a bar in pattaya , because in the end most farang owned bars , ( NOT YOURS NEIL ) go , belly up, In my country the uk , if business is slow, most owners try to get more punters in by having an extended happy hour or 2 drinks for the price of one, etc , In thailand , no such thing , most bars just put the prices up to compensate, which does not get the punters in , or come back, Now the goverment tax has been increased, how long before the prices go up and by how much

[pennyboy]

Yes Denmark you can certainly say that drinks are cheaper in straight bars than gay bars and I am sure we all know the reason for that one.
It's because the ratio of gay customers vs straight customers is what (?) the same or different? Well if it is 10% gay to 90% straight that means that straight bars would have 90% more customers. I also don't think these straight venues put on shows Many reasons why their drinks can be cheaper.


What a crock of shit!
Have a look around and you might find that there are more straight bars than gay ones and why do the gay bars which don't have any show in Boyztown charge so much for a drink.

[Neal]

Well Pennyboy, to those bars you question, it is simple.......go elsewhere. There is no need other than greed.

[Marsilius]

No, it is not greed that makes them put up prices in a declining market. After all, their profits would probably be higher - and so their greed satisfied - if they cut prices (as you yourself clearly appreciate, DaBoss, given the way you operate your own business).

What makes them put prices up in bad times is lack of knowledge of basic economic theory or no past experience of running a business that makes money. Most farang bar owners who I have met in Pattaya have been dilettante entrepreneurs, not serious ones.

[lukylok]

And I am afraid : however cheap the price of the drink, there will still be some customers to find them too expensive :dontknow: