FILING A COMPLAINT AGAINST AN AIRLINE

[kjun12]

Would someone know what agency in the Thai government I could complain to about AirAsia failing to make a refund within a reasonable time? They canceled our flight to France over five months ago and have not made the refund we requested since that time.

[cdnmatt]

Your best bet in the modern age of 2012? I don't know any off hand, but Google around for other "airline horror story" blogs, and ask if you could write a post on their blog with your experience. Hopefully various people on Twitter / Facebook pick it up, and within no time the airline will be contacting you, asking if you're ok with a full refund.

[fountainhall]

I suspect you were flying on Air Asia's long range arm, Air AsiaX, since Thai Air Asia has never flown to Paris. In that case, the government of jurisdiction is likely to be Malaysia; certainly not Thailand. So if you write to the department in charge of aviation affairs, your letter will either be trashed or you will get a short reply advising it is not their problem. This is what happened to a French citizen who wrote to the Embassy in Canberra about getting back to Paris тАУ

Dear Sir and Madam,
Thank you for contacting the French Embassy in Canberra.

I have just been informed by the Deputy Consul-General in Sydney that your problem needs to be solved by the company, very likely by refunding your ticket to France.

Wishing you the best for future travels,

Yours Sincerely,
Press and Information section.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g1 ... ravel.html (http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g1-i10702-k5175536-o70-Air_Asia_Updates_for_Cancelled_tickets_Paris_Londo n-Air_Travel.html)

If you look at that thread, you will see thousands of posts, many of them complaints about the cancellation of Air Asia XтАЩs European routes. However, it does seem that a lot of passengers have been rebooked on to Malaysian flights. HereтАЩs one comment dated June 15 (post #2679) тАУ

I have just returned form my wonderful trip to Asia. Flight with MAS was perfect. I have never received any phonecalls from AAX. Received only 3 emails (Jan and Apr) and the third one - the tickets received exactly 7 days before scheduled flight. Don't worry, everything will be fine. Have a nice trip!
Were you offered alternative flights on MAS?

Sadly, you can moan and groan about Air Asia all you want on any site, but it will change absolutely nothing. You will remain screwed by Air Asia until they are ready to give you your money back. When my Hanoi flights were cancelled and I could not take the alternative flights, I received no refund at all!

You can call their KL call centre, but you will have to wait for ages before you get an automated reply. Press for Customer Relations and you will then be put on hold ad infinitum тАУ in my case over 40 minutes. If you are lucky, you will reach someone who knows something about your case. Most likely, you will be transferred to something like Gate Operations at KIA - that's what happened to me! The nice lady told me the automatic rerouter always seemed to send complaints to her!

You can also try Air Asia's dedicated complaints line which guarantees you will speak to a person and not a machine. That, though, charges you around RGT2 per minute. Once you get through, you will then be put on hold whilst you are connected to the relevant officer - and of course you have to wait an age whilst Air Asia pockets more of your money.

Sadly, just a few of the problems of choosing to fly Air Asia!

[Neal]

I have a question for you guys. In USA and yes I know we wre not in the USA, we can dispute the charge on our credit card. Is this not an option here?

[fountainhall]

I doubt if you can claim on your card when a company like Air Asia cancels a flight or a route. Prior to purchase, every booker has to click a box confirming he is aware of the Terms & Conditions of the company. And since these permit the airline to do just about anything without any legal recourse - including cancellation for any commercial reasons - the card company would be justified in saying you knowingly took a risk, therefore we cannot be responsible. As I have pointed out before, Air Asia's Terms & Conditions are very clear to those who bother to read them -


At any time after a booking has been made we may change our schedules and/or cancel, terminate, divert, postpone reschedule or delay any flight where we reasonably consider this to be justified by circumstances beyond our control or for reasons of safety or commercial reasons.

[Daniel-old]

You may not be able to claim compensation, if the airline cancelled a flight, but you would be entitled to the cost of your ticket back.

In the UK, as in the USA, if a problem arises with a ticket bought on credit, you should be able to seek redress from either the airline or the credit provider or both. The credit provider should be kept informed of any difficulties you are having with the airline as they have 'equal liability'.

kjun12, if you used a credit card to purchase your ticket, you could try contacting your credit card provider.

[Neal]

I am sure that in the terms and conditions it is clear that they have the right to cancel or delay a flight but I am also sure that it specifies how and when they have to re-book you on another flight within a certain amount of hours or if it is not possible the time limit they have to give a full refund. I am quite sure the terms and conditions say anything like...we are allowed to cancel a flight and keep your money.
Therefore, writing your credit card company telling them that they did not abide by the terms and conditions, they should open a dispute and give a refund.
I would also be sure that there needs to be a reasonable time that they have to give a refund whether it be 60 or 90 days max. They just can't put in their terms and conditions 6 months or when they feel like it. Now if he were offered the next flight out which was the next day and did not take it, I think that may be on him and needs to read the rules and let someone who knows figure it out with ALL the facts.

If your credit card company refuses to help you I would suggest you go to Americanexpress.com and apply for an AMEX card. They will charge back any charge for any reasonable reason. They are card USER friendly.

I remember once I was in Phuket and thank goodness only once, I used my Amex card and the business charged me 4% for using it. I had them write on my receipt the amount of the item as well as 4% credit card service charge. According to Visa, MasterCard and Amex TERMS AND CONDITIONS for merchants to be able to accept visa, MasterCard and Amex, they have to agree on a shit load of rules. The one that gets them the angriest is this 3% and 4% service charge. Well anyway, Amex charged back not only the 4% service charge but the charge for the item I bought and told them for violating the rules, they were not honoring the charge at all!

These charge companies are very strict about it. Get it in writing that XXX is a fee for using your credit card. It is also a violation to be told that you can only use your credit card if your purchase is under a certain dollar amount. These and others are all violations of the terms and conditions contract merchants have with the credit card companies. Learn to use them to your advantage! :angry5:
If you need more help, PM me.

[pong]

most likely you have paid by cred-cd. Contact THEM-i have always got a refund (actually a wiping out of a former payment) in a week-they even do it before they go starting to serach what may be behind.
as all above (use brains, you have got them-gays are wiser as str8, nah?)-the Thai govmt wont even repond or give a htch. Tipical USA-mind to even think that some govmt. may act on these trivial matters.

[fountainhall]

I am also sure that it specifies how and when they have to re-book you on another flight within a certain amount of hours or if it is not possible the time limit they have to give a full refund.
Sorry, that is just not the case with Air Asia. It does not give any refunds for any reason. Here is the relevant section of the T&C -


9.2 Cancellation, Changes of Schedules:

In the event of such flight cancellation, we shall at our option, either:

a. carry you at the earliest opportunity on another of our scheduled services on which space is available without additional charge and, where necessary, extend the validity of your booking; or

b. should you choose to travel at another time, retain the value of your fare in a credit account for your future travel provided that you must re-book within three (3) months therefrom.

9.3 Sole remedies:

Upon the occurrence of any of the events set out in Article 9.2, the options outlined in Article 9.2 (a) to (b) are the sole and exclusive remedies available to you and we shall have no further liability to you.
i.e. on Air Asia, NO refunds.

Here are the remedies available to passengers on Air AsiaX -


9.2 Cancellation, Changes of Schedules:

In the event of such flight cancellation, we shall either:

a. carry you at the earliest opportunity on another of our scheduled services on which space is available without additional charge and, where necessary, extend the validity of your booking;

b. or should you choose to travel at another time, retain the value of your fare in a credit account for your future travel provided that you must re-book within three (3) months therefrom.

c. offer a refund if we are unable to carry you to/from your destination within 48 hours from the scheduled time of departure.

9.3 Sole remedies:

Except where applicable Conventions apply, the options outlined in Article 9.2. (a), (b) and (c) are the sole and exclusive remedies available to you.
i.e. on Air Asia X, yes you can indeed claim a refund. But note: there is nothing whatsoever in the Terms & Conditions giving any indication as to when a refund will be provided! It can take as along as Air Asia X decides it is to take! And there's more. There is absolutely nothing under the definitions section at the start of the T&C which defines what a refund is!!

Credit Card Claims


Therefore, writing your credit card company telling them that they did not abide by the terms and conditions, they should open a dispute and give a refund.
Good luck! I have only once had to claim re an airline cancelling a flight and it was some years ago. That required the airline to provide a formal notice in writing on headed paper confirming that the flight had been cancelled and the reason. The legacy carriers will do this routinely. I am sure the cc companies (including Amex) will still require exactly the same - otherwise it is only the cardholder's word. How else do you prove that a flight did not take off? I got nothing from Air Asia. They refused to give me any paperwork. They refused to give me a refund. I could not claim. I'll eat my hat if Air Asia X actually churns out this sort of paperwork. Remember that is labour intensive - precisely what the lccs avoid!

I'd also check your credit card limitations. Amex used to have a 3-month limit on claims (no idea what it is now, though). If, as I did, you book 7 - 8 months prior to the flight and it is cancelled just a few weeks before or less, you may be well beyond the period when you can claim.

So once again, I ask everyone flying on Air Asia to READ THE SMALL PRINT before you pay!

[Neal]

I still don't think they would get away with these types of rules with Amex and I certainly know they would not get away with it if they had to abide by USA rules. Can't really think of a solution to you except finding an atty who works on a contingency and files a class action suit if this remedy is available under your laws, claiming that these types of rules are absurd. In the states there are definitely class action suits and lawyers love them because they get hundreds of people to sign on if not thousands and the money they can make when they win is astronomical. Meanwhile I will keep my Amex and know I am covered.

[fountainhall]

I certainly know they would not get away with it if they had to abide by USA rules. Can't really think of a solution to you except finding an atty who works on a contingency and files a class action suit if this remedy is available under your laws
But there's still a monstrous problem. Firstly, Air Asia X is based in Kuala Lumpur. So any legal action will have to be taken out in Malaysia. There must be thousands of passengers who have wanted to take action against the carrier and its parent - yet no law suit for flight cancellations has ever been taken out (as far as I am aware). Even if the OP wished to commence a court action, can you imagine the cost of finding an attorney prepared to take this on, briefing him, providing all the paperwork, going back over the entire history etc. etc.? Bear in mind that Air Asia has large pockets. If there is to be a legal bun fight, they will easily outspend any passenger or group of passengers by getting them sucked into a long drawn-out legal process. Bear in mind also, the amount of money involved in one or two cancelled Air Asia X flights will be a tiny fraction of the cost of going to court. No attorney would take this on unless there was a very high chance of considerable damages. And my feeling is that Malaysian courts will not provide much, if anything, in the way of damages for cases of this nature.

Why? Because there is one really sticky, inescapable problem - at least in my view. Anyone booking on Air Asia and Air Asia X has to tick a box confirming that they have read and they agree with the terms and conditions of the booking. This has to be a positive action because if you haven't ticked the box, a prompt opens up reminding you to do so. In the USA, you can claim that a salesman hoodwinked you into purchasing something without making you aware of the small print. If you have deliberately confirmed that you have read and agree with the small print when making a web purchase - which includes what happens in the event of the airline cancelling for any reason, it's highly unlikely you have any legal leg to stand on whatever. And since you have agreed to those terms, I expect the cc companies will tell you the same thing! I have great sympathy for the OP having found myself in virtually the same position with this airline. Sadly, the law would be a hugely expensive and ultimately fruitless option.

I suspect the only grounds for complaint to a cc company is that Air Asia X has promised a refund and has not done so. But I still think you will need paperwork from the airline to back up your claim that the flights did not fly.

[Neal]

While napping I thought of something that I did a few times and I don't know if it will help you or not as I am only familiar with USA law.
In USA we have something called Small Claims Court. A person can file their own lawsuit against another person or corporation up to $5,000 I think the limit was. What you needed to do was to look at the paperwork and determine the TRUE and CORRECT corporate name and their address in the country you reside. The reason I say the country in which you reside is because they have an office there, yes? Therefore they DO BUSINESS and are registered in your country. It matters not where their "headquarters" is.
You eed to find out, which is easy in the US by going online or calling the Secy of State where there papers were filed, their address for service. Meaning the address where legal correspondence is to be sent.
Then file your small claims case and have it delivered according to the laws of your land on that address. At least this works in the USA. Someone usually will call and bully you and say that you can't do this. Someone from the company. The proper answer I used to give them was, "what do you mean I can't do this, I did didn't I?" Then they usually responded with .... you can't win, this is wrong. I then replied , I will see you in court. I usually always got my check right away as it was so much easier to send you the refund then to pay a corporate officer or lawyer to go to that county and fight the suit. Not to mention that if for some reason you were to win, my God that would open the flood gates for them to get sued by everyone else.
Again, that's in USA and I hope it gives you ideas you can use.

[luvthai-2]

I guess that buying trip insurance would be another way to protect yourself in case of flight cancellations. Usually this is an inexpensive offering at most terminals or thru your travel agents and if paying by credit cards is usually covered by the cards providers. Check with your credit card provider to see if you are protected.

[fountainhall]

Believe me, if I was the OP, I would be mad as hell and would leave no stone unturned to get redress. However, IтАЩd accept that there is a point beyond which I am not prepared to go тАУ i.e. when the time, effort and expense becomes too great in relation to the money I have so far not had refunded.


In USA we have something called Small Claims Court
DaBoss, I admire your tenacity. But your focus has been almost exclusively on the USA where consumer protection laws are far tighter than in almost any part of Asia.

Air Asia in Thailand. I cannot find out any specific detail from the internet about overseas corporate offices, only offices in Malaysia. It does seem, therefore, that there is no Air Asia office in Thailand. The parent companyтАЩs dealings are all done through Thai Air Asia, which is a Thai-owned subsidiary (Air Asia owns only 49%). However, as a separate corporate entity, I doubt (and do correct me if I am wrong) that TAA can be held responsible for issues relating to Air Asia and Air AsiaX. Even if there were a small claims tribunal here, I cannot see any party the OP can actually take to court.

Small Claims Tribunal. I have been before one in Hong Kong and it is certainly a far simpler and cheaper alternative to the High Court. Malaysia does indeed have such a Court. However, as in Hong Kong, lawyers cannot get involved and an individual must make the claim in person in Kuala Lumpur. He then has to fill out four copies of Form 164, file a copy at the Court and pay a small fee, then go and serve the тАШdefendantтАЩ either by hand or registered mail.

He and the тАШdefendantтАЩ then will be called to go before the Court in KL to argue the merits of their respective cases. The judge will make the decision based on the evidence.

So whilst he may avoid lawyersтАЩ fees, he still needs to make two personal appearances in KL, the second of which may involve one or two nights in a hotel. Is all that hassle and expense going to be worth getting his refund? Equally, how much will the court award as expenses if he wins the claim? In my very limited experience, courts only award approx. one third of actual costs! IsnтАЩt it better just to wait? If Air Asia X has promised a refund and that promise is in writing, then no matter how frustrating it may be, it will come almost certainly - eventually.

Trip Insurance. Once again itтАЩs a case of buyer beware. Most trip insurance that you buy at the airport is to cover accidents in-flight. Any other form of insurance is laden with exceptions. Most travel experts will advise against that kind of last minute insurance purchase.

Even regular travel policies which cover a whole host of eventualities are equally lumbered with exceptions. I was in Europe during the Iceland volcano disruptions. As I always do for long trips, I had a good policy which paid out for delays and cancellations. However, when I called the insurance company, I was informed they do not pay out in the event of delays/cancellations arising from Acts of God! And volcanic activity is regarded as such. I liked the comment of a poster on one forum who wrote to his insurer, тАЬI am not a Christian, I do not believe in God. Will you therefore please pay up?!тАЭ

And then there is Air AsiaтАЩs own Insurance which they try to persuade you to take out тАЬto protect youтАЭ. Well, thatтАЩs hardly worth the paper itтАЩs printed on. Want to see the full terms and conditions of its insurance policy? You get this тАУ

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l597/fountainhall/AA_Insurance_T_and_C.jpg
So insurance-wise, you are flying blind!

PLEASE - ALWAYS READ THE SMALL PRINT! If it's not there or you are not happy with it, don't click the box!

[fountainhall]

From reading a number of sites it seems that Ar Asia X did make considerable effort to rebook its clients to and from Paris on to Malaysian Airlines (something that really surprised me), I wonder if the OP was offered alternative flights or only a refund?

On a recent flight from bkk to udon thani....i checked Air Asia first but and noticed that what seemed a cheep fare after they add all the extras is not that cheep....so i checked Nok Air which fly's from Don Muaeng....cheep no hiden extras and ..very easy to book.....very good flight and friendly service