How evil is it to do a runner

[lexusgs]

Hi Guys,


I checked out this post on Thai Visa today as it was running as a hot topic. I thought it very interesting as the situation could easily apply to a gay relationship here in Thailand

Any thoughts?

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cdnmatt

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Posted Yesterday, 19:30
3 year relationship, no kids or marriage, and me doing a runner. Just leave a note (in Thai) explaining my rationale, with a sizable chunk of money in it to feel good knowing I left them in a position where if they wanted, they could easily get themselves setup with a decent life. Then disappearing never to be seen again. Other than a (rented) house full of furniture and electronics, we don't have anything together, and I'm happy to leave all that behind. I have two large dogs that will be coming with me, but that's all I care about.

I mean, if this was Canada I wouldn't even fathom doing it. I'm more than man enough to sit down and discuss things, but well, this is Thailand. I already know how the conversation will go, and I just don't see the point in doing it. That, and the last thing I want is some pissed off, deeply hurt Thai on my hands, who no longer has anything to lose.

So on a scale of 1 - 10, how big of an asshol_e does that make me?

Edited by cdnmatt, Yesterday, 19:33 .


here is the link if you have any interest

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/561 ... -a-runner/ (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/561870-how-evil-is-it-to-do-a-runner/)

Cheers :alc:

OOOOOOOOOOOOO

Is it "our" cdnmatt?

:dontknow:

[lexusgs]

Don't know SG. When you say ours? Who do you mean?

http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/member/cdnmatt/

I'm not saying it's the same person or not - just the same ID.

Form the description of the situation, and his previous posts here, it could certainly be him - but :dontknow: :dontknow:

[Neal]

People certainly can go to another board and try to use the same username as a person on this or another board. Please do not jump to conclusions.

I have been careful NOT to draw conclusions -I merely pose the question.

[christianpfc]

The details fit quite will to the cdnmatt who is posting here.

If he is, he definitely ows us an explanation, I vaguely remember him describing how nice they were living together.

But do you see the contradiction:


cdnmatt

with a sizable chunk of money in it to feel good knowing I left them in a position where if they wanted, they could easily get themselves setup with a decent life.

As far as I can judge, for most Thais setting up a decent life would not be high on the liste what to do with a sizable chunk of money.

No Christian - what he is saying is that he can walk away knowing that he has left sufficient funds to set up a decent life if they wanted to, in other words he can walk away with a clear conscience.

[christianpfc]

You are right Scotty, the answer is in cdnmatts reply on Thaivisa:


Nah, gotta leave some. Won't leave much though. Maybe 100,000 at the very most, and probably not even that much. Simply because I know it doesn't matter how much I leave, it'll be gone within 2 weeks. Same with all the furniture and appliances in the house. Within two weeks everything will be gone, with nothing to show for it.

All details on thaivisa match perfectly to what cdnmatt wrote here.

There is one contradiction: he told us how well the business was running he had set up for Kim, now he complains that all the money he invested was wasted.

I think we should all just let him get on with it, end of the day he doesn't owe anyone any explanations and he has said on numerous occassions that he was pissed off with several aspects of his life with his partner and their very extended family and friends etc so I don't think Matt can be accused of trying to paint a rosey picture where none existed exactly, like all of us he's probably reached his breaking point or had a moment of clarity thinking "what the FUCK am I doing, this is never going to change" and decided to make a change for his own sake - and I say fair play to him, leave a month or two's overhead for the guy and if you're sure you're done get the hell out of there and don't look back, it good to hear of someone getting out without losing everything they had or getting a knife in the back perhaps as they walk out the door ( although I guess that parts yet to be seen) so I say the best of luck to him and no doubt he'll come on and tell us his thoughts if and when or as and when he sees fit - or not - up to him. Remember HE didn't post that article here, someone else did so perhaps he has no wish to discuss or share his business with any of us - as is his right. Again, if you're reading this Matt, best of luck mate, get the car started and don't look back !

[cdnmatt]

Any thoughts?

That you knew full well it was me, and should have used some common decency before reposting it here? If I wanted it posted here, I would have done so.

It's about as rude as that other guy who popped into the thread to let everyone know I'm gay. Not that I particularly care if everyone knows I'm gay, but nonetheless, it's rude.

...There is one contradiction: he told us how well the business was running he had set up for Kim, now he complains that all the money he invested was wasted.

I don't really want to get into specifics here but what I will say Christian is that in general terms it's incredibly easy to fall into the trap of deluding oneself, making excuse after excuse for the boy, and actually convincing oneself that things are going great. Then something happens which brings you back down to earth with almighty bump and you finally realise what a bloody fool you've been.

Cdnmatt has been fortunate enough to have been brought to his senses while he still had the wherewithall to extricate himself from the situation.

:occasion9:

***Ah, while i was writing this, I see cdnmatt has posted and cleared up the "mystery"

[latintopxxx]

...oh dear, all the amateur sleuths...all we need is for a447 to pose his favourite question: was he actually ever there??

[cdnmatt]

I don't really want to get into specifics here but what I will say Christian is that in general terms it's incredibly easy to fall into the trap of deluding oneself, making excuse after excuse for the boy, and actually convincing oneself that things are going great."

I can't remember, but more than likely, that's it. He was probably starting one of his new ventures, so I was delusionally optimistic and supportive. He's done lots of different things. Selling shirts, had the small restaurant on the corner with his mom, store in the village (papa thought it was a good idea to sell that off), gift shop at the market, and even a deep fried chicken stall! There's probably a couple others, but I can't remember. Oh, and there was beauty school, which I don't understand why he doesn't pursue. He's excellent at it, and he loves it, but nope, can't be bothered.

[kittyboy]

Any thoughts?

It's about as rude as that other guy who popped into the thread to let everyone know I'm gay. Not that I particularly care if everyone knows I'm gay, but nonetheless, it's rude.

Rude? Oh please. You are posting on another public forum with a logon ID common to both. You are asking for advice on the other forum. At that point it becomes public information not private. If you wanted private counsel maybe you should have called friends and chatted. Instead you post a very public message asking for advice on a situation that is well known to many people from previous public postings.
My counsel is that you sound miserable. You are trying to change people who do not want to change to meet your standards. Leave enough money to make yourself feel good then disappear. Then stop bitching about it.
Did you go through a commitment ceremony? or was that another poster?

[cdnmatt]

Rude? Oh please. You are posting on another public forum with a logon ID common to both.

Yes, it's rude. It's like going to an 80 person party, and having someone go around telling everyone you're gay. You don't do that. Anyone with common decency understands that piece of information is for me to divulge, not them. Again, I don't particularly give a shit, because if I did, as you implied I would have used a different handle. It's still rude though. And my name isn't even Matt, so what the hell. :)


You are trying to change people who do not want to change to meet your standards.

Only if it was that black & white, eh? With one decision, I put someone who I dearly loved back into abject poverty. That's one of those things you lose sleep over.

[lexusgs]

Any thoughts?

That you knew full well it was me, and should have used some common decency before reposting it here? If I wanted it posted here, I would have done so.

It's about as rude as that other guy who popped into the thread to let everyone know I'm gay. Not that I particularly care if everyone knows I'm gay, but nonetheless, it's rude.


I rarely post new topics on the board cdnmatt (Or whatever your name is) I myself have been through a pretty dismal breakup after being with a Thai guy for 3 years. I found the story interesting.
That's the only reason I decided it may be of some help to the community on this forum. Guys may see a perfect relationship at the outset only to fall foul of the typical Thai mindset when it really comes to the crunch. Just as you have. It's a consequence of the individuals we tend to meet when we first interact with guys involved in the commercial side of the things in Thailand. I for one would get the hell out of where you are quickly. You have invested enough of your time and money on something that clearly has no future with zero return. My advice is given sincerely having experienced a similar situation.

[RonanTheBarbarian]

I agree with kittyboy regarding the OP mentioning your posting on ThaiVisa. I do not think there is any established decorum that prevents somebody from reporting one message-board that a well-known poster is posting something of interest on another board.
I can understand how you perhaps did not want to post about the impending demise of your relationship with Kim on here, after all the jibes you have had to endure about how the relationship would never last, etc.
However, posting it on TV it was sure to come out anyway. I post under the same handle on TV (albeit rarely) and I would go under the assumption that anything I posted there would be seen by a few people here, and even discussed here if it was scandalous enough.

As to the matter of the тАЬrunnerтАЭ I have to say my opinion is that it is a pretty shitty way to end it, unless you are desperate.
Do you really think that you will be in that much peril from Kim or his mates/family if you ended it by just telling him and moving out immediately afterward to a pre-booked hotel room?

[Neal]

If he is, he definitely ows us an explanation, I vaguely remember him describing how nice they were living together.

My only thought here at the moment is that I am sorry if cdnmatt is unhappy with his current situation and rather than any bad comments we should rally around him like any other farang to give him support.

Oh well and two thoughts, cdnmatt doesn't owe anyone an explanation christian.

[zinzone]

Congrats to cdnmatt. The problem with many of the Thai's is they want more and more, and sooner or later a farang will realize what is going and and will say: enough is enough.

[RichLB]

Since you asked, I'll give my take. Yes, it's a shitty thing to do. It seems to me that if you are too frightened to explain face to face why you are ending the relationship you might have a clue why it failed. In spite of all the claims to the contrary, Thais are not just "in it for the money". By having a farang they gain status, boon, and are seen as successes by family and friends. By being a runner, you are destroying all that. Be a man, explain why you are leaving and, if you really mean it, follow through.

Rich, I understand what you are saying but my fear of Thailand and the rural area affairs in Thailand is that you don't really know how the family will react and maybe what they are capable of doing. We have heard a lot of horror stories. Matt has to make the decision for matt.

[gregvc]

well, barboys might find having a farang as a status boost but I wouldn't think BKK middle and upperclass guys would think that. However, I agree that it raises question about the relationship. A runner would be looked down upon at home just as he would be in Thailand. Integrity or lack of is the same no matter where. Why get into a relationship if you have such awful ideas about Thais.

[adman5000]

Thanks for posting it here.

I choose to support the individual's decision because it is one of decisions where the right one is the one that feels right to you. No one else can know the ins and outs of the situation, your feelings, or your limits. So go with your gut instinct.

I have often wondered - can a farang live with a Thai without going totally F****** nuts? :banghead:

Similarly, each time I visit Thailand, I ask myself- could I live here and be happy? Or are the cultural differences that surface in a relationship or even just interacting with others, just something that a farang eventually tires of trying to understand or reconcile. Maybe some folks can adapt or tolerate. I think many end up saying I don't give a shit and I am not going to change and this is the way I will do things.

So for now, I still prefer to be a visitor. But I would like to give it a try to live in Thailand in the future.

[gregvc]

I am starting to understand why so many guys at saunas are Thai-Thai. Why would they want to hassles of getting too close to these crazy farangs.

Living in Thailand is interesting. I "care" for a lot of the boys but have to always make sure I draw the line in the sand because I will go broke. Money and possessions never seem to be enough to them. They seem to think that the ATM card is how we get free money. They have no understanding on how it got there in the first place that we can draw some out when we want. They have no understanding when we say, "no more". There is always more and they just figure out how to get more. It is not uncommon that 4 years later after a split in a relationship, the boy is still emailing and asking for money for something. I wish I had all the money back that I spent on some boys that I went head over heels for.
New car, thousands of dollars on operations for mama, I mean name it!

While you may be overly concerned,they will survive without you. I am sure most things including the house are paid for. They will survive. Maybe not as well but they will. They did before you got there and they will afterwards. The boy will go out and look for another falang to support the family. Doesn't that sound cruel? But it's true!

I have found that the best way for me to stay alive and have money to support myself in retirement is to look out for me and me alone first. If you don't I see in my crystal ball one day you will be asking your friends, family or embassy to help you get home. :dontknow:

[gregvc]

Just try to remember that what you describe is not Thailand. You are not living in Thailand, you are living in a very small subset of Thailand. Overwhelmingly, Thais would not have any idea about what you talk about. Go out and meet middle class Thais in the cities who are educated and in jobs. They would think that the flesh trade was very farang.

Without generalizing, I have some things to say about the various things said here.

First, I agree with cdnmatt, whomever you are, that the TV post should have stayed there and nobody has the right to repost a PERSONAL post like this to another forum. Poster lexusgs could have sent cdnmatt a private message in either forum if he wanted to know more, and I get the very clear impression that he already had a good idea it was cdnmatt from here. Poster lexusgs is not new has enough posts to recognize a name.
But then this is Thailand and one thing after many many years living here, is that there are no secrets with the farang tea-cunts, most are just like old ladies who have nothing better to do then gossip, drink and fuck.

Second, again I agree with cdnmatt. If you feel it is best for you to do a runner, do it. From your post in this topic (the only one I read from you regarding your personal live in Thailand) you have taking care of the lad more then enough, but he (and his family) just do not want to go ahead and make something of themselves with the opportunities you gave them.
I have heard enough horror stories and seen many breakups personally (gay and straight) and the Thais "always" (90%) go totally crazy and insane, because the man they love (yeh, right, I ment ATM they love) is leaving.
If it will not be a crazy breakup, you get the soft stories and hugs and kisses to convince you to stay and for maybe a few weeks you are in heaven again.
cdnmatt, my blessing, go and run. Make a new live for yourself and never forget the good times you had. Remember the mistakes you made, so hopefully next time things will be better.

Third, who are these people here whom think they can judge and even worse think that cdnmatt owes them an explanations. What are you running out of gossip material? :hah:

Forth, I guess this post will probably not make me any friends, but then the posts I see on this (and other) forums overal and how people think, I do not want them as friends anyway. :pukeleft:

:alc:

[Marsilius]

Although the content of the Thai Visa post may have been personal, cdnmatt chose himself to share it on a public means of communication - whereas he could easily have just informed his friends privately.

I am afraid that he thus lost any claim - not to mention the practical ability - to prevent discussion of his affairs.

[Patexpat]

I do have empathy with Matt and his experiences. Matt, in this case do what is right for you and leave the rest to get on with it. Hard but simple ....

[homeseeker]

Living in Thailand is interesting. I "care" for a lot of the boys but have to always make sure I draw the line in the sand because I will go broke. Money and possessions never seem to be enough to them. They seem to think that the ATM card is how we get free money. They have no understanding on how it got there in the first place that we can draw some out when we want. They have no understanding when we say, "no more". There is always more and they just figure out how to get more. It is not uncommon that 4 years later after a split in a relationship, the boy is still emailing and asking for money for something. I wish I had all the money back that I spent on some boys that I went head over heels for.
New car, thousands of dollars on operations for mama, I mean name it!

While you may be overly concerned,they will survive without you. I am sure most things including the house are paid for. They will survive. Maybe not as well but they will. They did before you got there and they will afterwards. The boy will go out and look for another falang to support the family. Doesn't that sound cruel? But it's true!

I have found that the best way for me to stay alive and have money to support myself in retirement is to look out for me and me alone first. If you don't I see in my crystal ball one day you will be asking your friends, family or embassy to help you get home. :dontknow:


Well said: at least a few people actually know how to deal with the Thais.


As to Matt, good luck, I hope the dogs are ok, as they are at least loyal and please Matt do not give a second thought to the decision you have made: it's the right one.

[a447]

Latinpox wrote:
all we need is for a447 to pose his favourite question: was he actually ever there??

No, Latin. I have no need to questions Matt's bone fides. He has posted about his life with Kim in great detail, so it's obvious where he is.

No googling info, copying other people's posts, posting contradictory info, getting facts wrong (shall I continue??) from Matt. He's for real.

I've only ever asked that question of you.

Matt has shared his adventures with his partner for a long while. Naturally it is up to him how much he wants to share with us.

All the best, Matt.

[RonanTheBarbarian]

I think people here seem to be very quick to dump on Kim, the Thai partner in this case.

They are using the experience they had with short term partners to make a judgment. But from reading cdnmatts posts here over the years, I believe that Kim has shown himself pretty loyal, even when things are tight. Wasnt there a few months when they barely had enough for food, but Kim stuck to him?

That does not seem like the actions of an insincere money-grubber. I am not doubting the accounts of others here, but there is a difference between a short term relationship in Pattaya based on loading the boy up with loads of gifts from the start, with perhaps unfaithfulness on both sides, and the relationship cdnmatt had with Kim (according to his own account over the years here), which was one based on living in the wilds of Isaan for three years in a faithful relationship, with both its ups and downs financially.

I think Kim has earned a bit more consideration, IMHO.

[Manforallseasons]

Putting all the niceties aside, I'de love to hear all the gory details .

[Thai Dyed]

Putting all the niceties aside, I'de love to hear all the gory details .

Me too!
[attachment=0:1ezmz2fo]ROTFLMFAO.jpg[/attachment:1ezmz2fo]

Well guys, I don't know what satisfaction or amusement you would get from the "gory details"?

I just find it a pity that someone finds himself in a position of having to "do a runner" in order to get out of a good situation that has turned bad.

:dontknow: :dontknow:

Hear hear Scots, people must have little to amuse themselves with in their sad lives to want to sit and dote on someone else's unhappiness - plus I doubt (and hope) that there weren't any "gory details" anyway, Matt has simply said he's done with being the permanent provider of the household and simply wants to extracate himself from that current living situation and separate from his BF, it's really no big deal and happens every day, many many times, all over the world so I don't see what everyone's getting so excited about.

The only "twist" being I guess if Thailand "special circumstances" kick in and he finds it difficult to go as quietly as he had hoped perhaps, but I'm sure he'll work it out one way or the other and I wish him every success with that if that's what he ultimately chooses to do and people really should just leave it at that now and allow him to get on with or not as he sees fit as as I've said before HE didn't post any of this to THIS list ( no matter how people want to try and dress up that fact to suit them carrying on the discussion) and I'm guessing if he wanted to tell all the vultures and gossip moungers out there in the gay world EVERY twist and turn of his private life he would have done so already so the fact that he hasn't does I assume mean that he's choosing not to - as is his right, anyway whatever happens best of luck Matt ( or whatever your name is !!! )

[kittyboy]

Well guys, I don't know what satisfaction or amusement you would get from the "gory details"?


Why do we want the gory details? Schadenfreude

The guy has been posting in a very public way details about his private life. If people want to comment on the situation ..it is fair game.
My question is why does the guy feel the need to reveal very very private information in a very very public forum? At the point where he posts asking for advice (on a different forum but this is all public) then he has to expect lots of worthless, pointless, snarky comments and very little practical advice. Does he want advice or does he get some type of validation from having other people invest into his personal drama?

[francois]

If people want to comment on the situation ..it is fair game.


Others have questioned whether "matt" is real or otherwise. For me he is as real as Beachlover.

[krobbie]

Good luck to you cdnmatt. There is no blame to be apportioned here, just that it is time for both parties to move on. Given the penchant for Thai to do unpredictable things I think leaving in this manner is your decision and you alone know the temperament of your partner.

You gave it your best shot and in a very generous way. There can be no blame.

Chok dee cdnmatt and perhaps your next partner will be a little more hard working and ambitious (in a good way).

Don't look back.

[colmx]

Others have questioned whether "matt" is real or otherwise. For me he is as real as Beachlover.

I always thought that matt was Beachlover?

[kittyboy]

If people want to comment on the situation ..it is fair game.


Others have questioned whether "matt" is real or otherwise. For me he is as real as Beachlover.

What? People create false personas online?
I do not have an opinion one way or the other about matt's validity. I questions why someone posts very personal information on a public board. Is it really a desire to plumb the collective wisdom or is some other need driving the behavior? Perhaps a desire to feel important by being a topic of conversation? I do not know. I do recall some of the OP previous posts and IMHO they were manufactured drama. Is this more of the same?

[francois]

I always thought that matt was Beachlover?

I also thought the same. If it quacks like a duck and acts like a duck ............

[kittyboy]

I always thought that matt was Beachlover?

I also thought the same. If it quacks like a duck and acts like a duck ............
I had the same suspicion.

I could not be bothered to read any of the other posts, I tried and I am sure cdnmatt did also. :lam:

What I find really nice is that M DaBoss has no reply/message. :bis:

Be a friend Daboss and CLOSE this topic. :hello2:

I am sure cdnmatt will like it. :kap:

[christianpfc]

I am wrong: cdnmatt doesn't owe anyone an explanation.

But I consider his behavior impolite, to announce on a different place his break-up, whereas I still think that everything is going fine in his relationship (according to the last posts here). But again up to him if and where and to whom to announce.

Posts on thaivisa are public and therefore accessible to all, thanks to lexusgs for sharing the link (which is absolutely legitimate by my standards).

Kudos to cdnmatt for taking care of the dogs.

Thanks to everyone who participated (here and on thaivisa), very interesting information about breaking up with Thai boys and girls.

But back to the original question. On a scale 0 (not an asshole) -10 (big asshole), my initial grading for you was 237, but after reading all comments I realize that I neither have enough experience nor knowledge to render a judgement.

[Neal]

I am sorry but while I may be tempted to, there are no guidelines that allow for that and I get my head chopped off enough. :blackeye:

I am sorry but while I may be tempted to, there are no guidelines that allow for that and I get my head chopped off enough. :blackeye:

Sometimes you have to go past the guidelines and just be a humanbien (I know I spelled that wrong, but my spellcheck did not give me a good splelling) :love4:

[klong]

I think we should all just let him get on with it, end of the day he doesn't owe anyone any explanations
I agree with this. The man who is leaving knows Thais and the ensuing fight would be nasty and for naught. I think he is doing more than most of us would.

[Khor tose]

I would not have dropped my BF the way Matt did, but that said, I am fully aware that I am not Matt, I do not know what the situation was with the BF and the family, and I probably come from a different background and perspective then Matt does. As far as I am concerned he made the best decision he could and we should all leave it at that. Frankly, since this was posted on another site and Matt did not ask for our input, this is really none of our business, and I too wish Matt the best as he moves on in life.

[gregvc]

it seems that this site isn't a place for integrity. Just "do what is best for you, man". Which explains a lot about the attitude towards Thais as expressed here. Part of being an adult is doing the difficult things, not taking the easy way out and being responsible. Cries of "don't judge me".

[cdnmatt]

But I consider his behavior impolite, to announce on a different place his break-up, whereas I still think that everything is going fine in his relationship (according to the last posts here). But again up to him if and where and to whom to announce.

And I consider the maturity level of various members on this forum to be impolite, hence why I didn't post it here. Actually, I was quite surprised with the # of cordial responses in this thread, so thank you to everyone for that. I was expecting a good number of members to hammer me much harsher than they did, so thanks. Also, thank you for the PMs, and I'll reply shortly.

[cdnmatt]

Oh shit, I totally forgot, apparently I'm Beachlover now too. Here's some photos I stole off the internet!

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5309/5856130413_27f1e7c765.jpg

http://teakdoor.com/Gallery/albums/userpics/10732/normal_IMG_1242.jpg

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5ScpqZxiULH6y1erIYeb7QuY66YCy1 Tmi1nxX1cYT0GfXk_1HvMmtBh30Og

[anonone]

<SNIP>, but after reading all comments I realize that I neither have enough experience nor knowledge to render a judgement.

First, I have to say that this is the most refreshing comment I have seen posted on here in awhile. Christian, I am liking you more with just about every post.
If you were Thai and a couple years younger, I would seriously go after you :sign5:

Matt - Good luck with whatever route you take. As mentioned earlier, it is not like a breakup in a gay relationship is shocking, unusual news. For whatever reason, it is apparently time to call it quits. Only Matt knows how best to accomplish that in his particular situation. Obviously he is "adult" enough to care about Kim and trying to leave some funds to help see them through. I have no desire to judge how he decides to proceed.

[a447]

Kittyboy wrote:
My question is why does the guy feel the need to reveal very very private information in a very very public forum?

But Kitty, he didn't give out any details (full name, for example) that we could identify him by, so although it's "public", it is actually 100% anonymous. That's exactly why people can post private stuff.

I mean, look at Latin's posts. Or mine, for that matter - all the sleazy things I get up to and post here. I certainly would not be posting that stuff if I didn't have anonymity (and I presume Latin wouldn't, either).

I'm glad Matt took the time to post about his relationship, as it was an insight into something I have not experienced in LOS - a long term relationship with a local. I actually felt I was learning something about Thai society I could not see as a sex tourist.

[searcher]

Sorry for maybe sounding cynical BUT ..."welcome to the club"........!

[corky]

Matt, don't worry about Kim being able to support himself and his feckless family. Within days of your departure he will be on the bus to Pattaya to get back his old job in Sunee Plaza. If you want to help him in his old (new) career then post his photo here. There will be lots of guys happy to find out for themselves what you saw in him.

...Within days of your departure he will be on the bus to Pattaya to get back his old job in Sunee Plaza.

Is that supposed to be helpful?

I'm sure the last thing Matt would want is to be thinking that his ex-bf is back working in Sunee Plaza.

Exceedingly strange comment.

[cdnmatt]

Is that supposed to be helpful?

I'm sure the last thing Matt would want is to be thinking that his ex-bf is back working in Sunee Plaza.

Wouldn't worry about it. His comment proves more about him than it does anyone else.

Ummm... honestly, would like to provide an update, but just don't feel like doing it. Sorry. All is well in the world though.

[Thai Dyed]

His comment proves more about him than it does anyone else.


In the past Matt, you have told us the rather large sums of money you paid your erstwhile boyfriend Kim, which involved princely sums if I remember correctly. Wasn't this just another form of prostitution? Why is it that if we do it, it is noble, yet when others pay, it becomes ignoble? In many cultures and in parts of India today, prostitutes are considered holy. Why are people on this board so full of their hypocritical, and for the most part Western, morality?

[kittyboy]

Kittyboy wrote:
My question is why does the guy feel the need to reveal very very private information in a very very public forum?
But Kitty, he didn't give out any details (full name, for example) that we could identify him by, so although it's "public", it is actually 100% anonymous. That's exactly why people can post private stuff.

As I recall the OP has been posting for sometime about his relationship with the boyfriend and the family. Most of the post seemed very negative toward the boyfriend and the family and appeared in my mind to place the OP as the misunderstood martyr trying desperately to make everyone's lives around him better but the thai were just too stupid make their lives better. Given the long history of posting about his relationship..No the posting was not anonymous (even though it wasposted on another website) as his relationship has been played out in a very public way. Maybe the OP has been making up stories to amuse himself. I do not know. If the OP wanted to protect his privacy he should not share personal details on a public forum. If he was so worried about his privacy he could very easily ask the board owner to lock or delete the thread.

Finally my understadning is that the OP's identity is known to many of the other board members.

if you think there are any secrets on the Internet you have to be living in a parallel universe.

[francois]

Thai Dyed, this attitude has been around a long time;

"Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou." Isaiah 65:5

[christianpfc]

I vaguely remember that a respected memeber of this forum has met cdnmatt in person so we don't have to ask ourselves if he is real, Beachlover or making these things up?

Some people here blamed lexusgs for sharing the link to thaivisa, I however think lexusgs did the right thing and cdnmatt is to blame. He did a runner on us as well.

Let me support this with some far fetched comparisons:

When my uncle got his girlfriend pregnant, his mother (my grandmother) was the last person in town to learn about it.

When you leave a party, it's customary to say goodbye.

After all cdnmatt has written so far (I read most of it with great interest), I feel I deserve an update about the current break up.

I think it's just common decency not to leave us in the belief that everything is fine. (That's a new one - ChristianPFC lecturing about decent behavior. If you want to comment on that, you might use the words "glasshouse" and "stone").

I bet you give a shit if I am disappointed by your behavior (I mean towards us - I can't judge about the breakup with Kim).

Thank you for sharing your experiences with Kim and good luck whereever you go next!

[RonanTheBarbarian]

When you leave a party, it's customary to say goodbye.

I think that is a good point Christian. In the real (as in non-online) World, when you build up a relationship there usually is a certain type of obligation on both sides.

For instance, if you get into the habit of not inviting your brother to your birthday party, you will probably find he will stop inviting you to his. If you usually go to the hairdressers in the North end of town on a Saturday morning and have a gossip with the same bunch of girls, you can expect them to be pissed off when you suddenly start going to the hairdressers on the South end of town and gossiping with a different bunch of girls.

So how should one take it when somebody who used to post all about his private dealings in the forum he usually frequents abandons that forum and and goes to another?

Obviously it is an online world , not the real World. So it is perhaps ridiculous to get offended then if cdnmatt flits to ThaiVisa because he thinks will get better advice there.

Cdnmatt would probably say that it is ridiculous to claim that he had any "obligation " to us here on SGT. I would actually agree with that. It is not analogous to the flesh and blood situation, like the hairdresser example above.

But, it also holds, that it is also ridiculous to get offended if somebody discusses here what cdnmatt posted on ThaiVisa. But some of the oversensitive queens here actually had an outright fit of the vapours and claimed that it was "rude" of the OP to repost what cdnmatt posted on ThaiVisa, on the basis that "if he wanted discussed here, he would have posted it here".

That is undoubtedly true, but surely that suggests an obligation to cdnmatt that would only exist if we were treating him as we would a real life friend?

And if he was a friend in real life who had abandoned us for the "other hairdressers" would we not feel annoyed at the abandonment?

I know this all seems very convoluted, but basically what i am saying is that cdnmatt cannot have it both ways with regard to the online world, you cannot expect people to have a "human" reaction one minute ("I wont repost that ThaiVisa post of his on SGT, obviously he is too embarrassed to post it here") and not also have the other side of the coin "human" reaction ("he has abandoned us for ThaiVisa...the hussy!")

[RonanTheBarbarian]

And of course the one poster to go into full-out lecture mode on proper web-forum etiquette and how DaBoss should deal with this is none other than what is pretty obviously the latest re-incarnation of LMTU.....One just has to laugh sometimes at the ironies of life. :hah:

[cdnmatt]

I feel I deserve an update about the current break up.

What makes you believe I owe you (or anyone) anything?


I think it's just common decency not to leave us in the belief that everything is fine.

I initially came to this forum because I fell in love, and had absolutely no clue what I was doing, or getting myself involved in. After all, journeying into the unknown is somewhat the best part of life. I did get some great advice and insights into life from loads of members, and I'm sure everyone enjoyed reading the stories everyone shared due to that. However, I also was constantly shitted on. Enough said.

As for an update. We're fine. I'm in no imminent danger, which some people seemed to have believed for some reason. I trust Kim, but don't trust the emotionally distressed & pissed off Kim that I see once every say 6 months. He's got one last shot with me, he knows it, and we'll see what happens. Promised myself I wouldn't invest in any future ventures, but sure enough after 12,000 baht he's all setup with a new piece of shit motorbike with 75,000kms on it, a side carrier cart, new shocks, and a shit load of Thai BBQ food. Let's see what happens.

Will leave it there. Otherwise it turns into a 50 page thesis of me explaining every last detail, because if I don't, people will pick apart the post sentence by sentence, and trash me on it, assuming they know everything. Don't need it.

To be fair not everyone "shit on you" Matt ( or whatever your name is) and on reading a lot of the posts most people were actually quite supportive of you and concerned for your welfare on both this and the other forum I thought and if you post to a public forum you can't really expect everyone to agree with you or back up your particular view of things all the time as obviously that's just not realistic.

[joe552]

matt, I completely missed this thread as I was on holiday. I was sorry to read about your problems with Kim, as I was very hopeful from all your positive posts about your relationship. I genuinely hope things work out for you both.

[christianpfc]

In England they say "take French leave", in France they say "filer ├а l'anglaise" which means "take English leave".

[francois]

Christian; what do you say in German?

[Thai Dyed]

what do you say in German?

entlaufenen hund

[christianpfc]

Ii wouldn't use an expression with a nationality, I would say "sich davonmachen" or "sich davonstehlen" or "sich verkr├╝meln" which means "to sneak out" or "to steal away". My favorite online dictionary gives "sich auf franz├╢sisch verabschieden" which means "leave the French way" but I never heard or read this expression before.

"entlaufener Hund" means "runaway dog" and has nothing to do with it.

[vnman]

But I consider his behavior impolite, to announce on a different place his break-up, whereas I still think that everything is going fine in his relationship (according to the last posts here). But again up to him if and where and to whom to announce.

And I consider the maturity level of various members on this forum to be impolite, hence why I didn't post it here. Actually, I was quite surprised with the # of cordial responses in this thread, so thank you to everyone for that. I was expecting a good number of members to hammer me much harsher than they did, so thanks. Also, thank you for the PMs, and I'll reply shortly.

I'm sure that there are some of us who have a thing or two to say...but to what end? No matter what any of our problems is/were with you, there's no sense in spitefulness. I admit, I frequently had to bite my tongue when reading your Kim stories but purely because of my own experiences. I surely don't wish you any harm or problems in your life and I hope you figure out what to do.

Dutch: zeker geen leedvermaak

[Thai Dyed]

I admit, I frequently had to bite my tongue when reading your Kim stories...


All those pearls of wisdom... come to this. Sure, it was supposed to be different this time. They're always telling me it's different this time.
"Then, all at once, through all the music, through all the sensible sounds of men building, attempting, comes the Dies Irae. And what is it? What does the trumpet sound? Up yours." -Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf

[cdnmatt]

I hope you figure out what to do.

Ummm, it's up to him, not me. I've already made my decision, and the path I take is up to him. :) And yeah, was probably a little too defensive in the previous post(s). Natural human reaction & defense mechanism I guess. When distraught, your mind will naturally shut out the negative stuff.

But no, so far he's holding up his end of the bargain, so we'll see what happens. I have a good feeling this time though. I'm pretty sure he sees in my eyes that I'm at my wit's end, so he'll do good this time around. heh, my neighbor even senses that I've been distraught, because she's went out of her way to ensure I remember Kim had a rough childhood with virtually no parents, and a little brother & sister to take care of, and how I'm a such a great guy for taking care of him like I have, etc.

I understand all that, and am sympathetic towards it, but you can't use that as an excuse for the rest of your life. I'm sorry you had a rough childhood, and ended up being born into poverty, but we've been together for 3 years, so that's no longer an excuse. And the "I don't have an education" excuse doesn't work on me either, because I don't have a high school diploma myself, and we're doing quite well now. And if you want an education, there's a nice desktop computer downstairs, and the internet has about 25,000 lifetimes of knowledge available for free, so go for it! And if you don't like to work hard, then too bad, and welcome to life.

Time to get off your ass, and go do something with yourself though. If you don't want to, then no worries, and I'll take the dogs and leave, and he'll never have to listen to me bitch again. He can help out and contribute now though, and I think it'll be fine now, or at least I hope. He pulled in 1700 baht of sales today though, so not too shabby at all. Don't know how much of that is profit though, and never asked. Don't care, just show me you can work everyday, and that's more than enough for now.

[Thai Dyed]

I have a good feeling this time though.

Of course you do. It's different this time. No?
[attachment=0:2r2klvtv]ItsDifferentThisTime.gif[/attachment:2r2klvtv]

[RonanTheBarbarian]

Best of luck with it matt.

And I mean that sincerely. Remember that, whenever you post about leaving Kim there are loads of cynical guys out there who are only too delighted to tell you to bail on a relationship and blame it on the impossibility of a Thai/farang relationship, because it makes them feel better about their own failed relationships.

I can understand that you feel frustrated every day if Kim is hanging around the house and doing nothing, but one piece of advice from me would be a classic piece of advice about relationships - don't try to make changing an essential part of your partners character a make-or-break deal in a relationship (unless it truly is intolerable).
You might be able to change them for a while (particularly where your partner is in a state of financial dependency), but it will not work forever.

You seem from your posts to be putting yourself in the role of a parent to Kim as much as lover (not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that type of relationship - many Thai/farang relationships fall into that mould naturally, due to the demographics of them). However, I do not think you are content with it.
And to be fair to Kim, if one has had a difficult up-bringing; it can be very hard to escape the mental effects. I have seen this with people in my own life. It creates ways of thinking, with regard to bettering yourself, say, that can be hard to break. Just because the internet puts loads of knowledge at your fingertips does not mean you are in the right place mentally to be able to use it. I think your neighbour probably was wiser about the situation (and the realistic hopes of change) than you realise.

Also remember, that for most of the last few hundred years, the standard in the West at least was that in a romantic partnership, one of the twosome (ie the man) went out to work and the other (ie the woman) stayed at home. Now of course usually then there was at least a half dozen children after a few short years, but even in cases where the couple were infertile, that was the model, the wife still stayed at home and kept house. Maybe your hankering at Kim going out and having a job is mainly YOUR expectations of having grown up in a later period where "all must earn" is the model. Consider how much that may be just your cultural expectation of what is needed for somebody to have a worthwhile life (I have a funny feeling that you will chime in here and complain that he doesnтАЩt do the housework either!). Also, I do not know what cultural expectations Kim has, perhaps he imagined himself growing up as the "wife" to a rich man, and therefore finds it hard to shake the idea that all this "going out to work " business is just a type of nagging he has to put up with. Even if he accepts your argument about the benefits of work intellectually, he perhaps still has a subconscious feeling that it doesnt matter.

So, anyway, on to the arrogant advice section of this post!

I would suggest you consider two things:

Firstly, make sure Kim benefits directly from the job financially. Perhaps he is so truly lazy that no incentive would make him want to work. A few people are like that, but most are not, and the likelihood is that he isnтАЩt either. To look back to my own times when I was being harassed by a parent-type figure (in this case it was my actual mother when I was a teenager) to go out and GET A JOB during the summer, the best motivator was her telling me that if I worked and saved a set amount, she would add to it herself for me to spend on something I wanted.
So perhaps you can have a sort of agreement with Kim that the vast majority of what he earns will go on things he wants or likes (not just spending on himself necessarily, but perhaps spending on things around the house he particularly wants, such as new furniture, or a big party this coming Loi Krathong for his family and friends, etc). I know you have suggested that the money is the main issue with you, moreso that you want him just working, so maybe this would be agreeable for you. Probably you would want him to make a nominal contribution to "joint finances" out of the principal of the thing but keep it nominal. Another model is that you pay for the basics and he pays for the fun (going out etc).

If he sees this pattern (of earning money giving him the opportunity to do the things he wants to do) continuing over a long period, it might arouse that dormant motivation

Secondly consider offering him a compromise on your desire to have him "work everyday". How about he goes out and works for three or four days a week and catches up with some (light) housework during the week?
Is it really important to you that he works five days a week, a forty hours week (or equivalent)?
These are just things to consider. You sometimes come across as quite an uptight person in your posts, perhaps you are unaware of how you are boxing yourself into a corner in this issue.

I remember earlier that you said that you hope to move to another part of Thailand, are you still planning that? Perhaps moving to a more vibrant area like Phuket or Chiang Mai will give Kim a more exciting set of work options. You said earlier that he is good at make-up but couldnтАЩt stick a job at a salon (if I remember correctly) Perhaps work on glamorous advertising photo-shoots and the like would be more his style?

[cdnmatt]

one piece of advice from me would be a classic piece of advice about relationships - don't try to make changing an essential part of your partners character a make-or-break deal in a relationship

Ummm, no... he can just grow up now, and go to work. No more games, excuses, sob stories, victim mentality, or anything else. Just goto work. He doesn't need to be like his friends, some of whom are so lazy they can't even rub 30 baht together for a bowl of soup, or are 36 years old and still mooching off their mom. I mean, he's welcome to be like that if he wants, but I won't be around for it. It's too emotionally draining for me, which then affects my work, makes me miserable, and it's just not worth it.

And if he doesn't like work, tough shit, and welcome to life. When I was younger, I didn't like being at the ass end of a shovel 16 hours a day, or waking up at 6am to goto a warehouse and load/unload trucks, etc. But no, he's fine, and he's out there everyday, and seems to really enjoy it so far. It's nice seeing him come home, obviously exhausted, but yet you can see in his eyes that sense of accomplishment a hard day's work brings. Awesome honey, that's what I want to see! :-) I've also seen several of the neighbors giving him encouragement too, while he's out front cleaning / getting ready, which is great to see.

And to be honest, I hope he grows to hate his work. Maybe then he'll decide it might be a good idea to learn some new skills, so he doesn't have to bust his ass all day to make say 12k/month. I don't particularly care what he chooses to do, but if he wants me to stay, he can go do something with himself.


You seem from your posts to be putting yourself in the role of a parent to Kim as much as lover

Yeah, that seems to be what's happened. Not exactly what I hoped for, but what the hell, we're 3 years in and I'm not going to drop the relationship without putting up a fight. Such is life, I guess. And I can't really complain, because the love is there, and it is genuine. Life could be, and has been worse.


Firstly, make sure Kim benefits directly from the job financially.

Oh yeah, his money is 100% his, and that's fine. I'm not expecting him to help out with the bills or anything. Besides, he's only going to make what? 12k/month maybe? That's not in any way going to affect our financial well being. I don't care about the money itself, but just the shared sacrifice, value of a dollar, etc. Actually, I do care about the money. If he wants to goto karaoke 3 times a week, go for it, but he can pay, and earn his own nights out. Plus he has a 10 month old nephew he can help buy clothes & toys for, etc.


Perhaps he is so truly lazy that no incentive would make him want to work. A few people are like that, but most are not, and the likelihood is that he isnтАЩt either.

Ummm, he just lacks self confidence, and needs to realize that being born a peasant doesn't mean anything. He's just as capable and intelligent as all the "hi-so" Thais out there. And again, if he doesn't want to go down that path in life, then no worries, I'll leave. I can't just continue doing this though, because that's not fair to me at all. But I'm quite certain if you ask him, he'd say he'll do anything to make the relationship work, and he's proving it with actions, so all looks to be well. :-)


Secondly consider offering him a compromise on your desire to have him "work everyday". How about he goes out and works for three or four days a week and catches up with some (light) housework during the week?

Nah, I unfortunately get stuck with the house work now. Well, and we have a ladyboy living downstairs and she's actually helps out loads. Before I'd just leave all the housework up to him, because he was lazy, so could at least do something. Now he's out working everyday, so I have to do it. Fuck! :-) hehe, j/k. I'm sure I'll manage somehow. :)

He promised to come with me to a "hi-so" restaurant though, so that was nice. Went to pick the vet a gift certificate so him and his family could have a nice meal on me, and my neighbor took me to this awesome restaurant. I'm not very formal, but do miss getting dressed up once in a while, and going for a nice night out. And a little more than BBQ followed by karaoke would be nice.

Anyway, whew, long-winded post. I'll end it there, but thank you for such a thoughtful reply. Appreciate it! If you ever find yourself in KK, drop me a line.

[RonanTheBarbarian]

If you ever find yourself in KK, drop me a line.

Thanks for the offer matt. Probably wont find myself in KK to be honest - in my shorts trips to the LOS i usually like staying in the classic tourist areas...but you never know, perhaps I will explore Isaan one day!

Of course you will probably have moved by then!

[christianpfc]

All my comments in this thread were based on the assumption * that cdnmatt had already left his boyfriend. But careful re-reading of the original post on Thaivisa revealed that it was just hypothetical. But it seems many others took it for real, otherwise I would have gotten the drift.

Do I owe cdnmatt a drink if/when I come to Khon Kaen?







* "Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups!"

[cdnmatt]

Do I owe cdnmatt a drink if/when I come to Khon Khaen?

You're probably the nicest & most respectful guy around these parts, so why would you ever owe me anything? I'd be happy to cook you a nice steak, or take you for dinner if you ever find your way up here though. :-)

No idea, but guessing I'll be in KK for another three months or so, then after that, Chiang Mai. Kim's keeping his end of the bargain, so I'm not about to uproot him, especially during this time period. I'll do that later. If you find yourself in my area during those time frames, drop me a line.

I'm not about to uproot him,.is this a new sexual position? Can someone describe it?

[francois]

Do I owe cdnmatt a drink if/when I come to Khon Khaen?

You're probably the nicest & most respectful guy around these parts, so why would you ever owe me anything? I'd be happy to cook you a nice steak, or take you for dinner if you ever find your way up here though. :-).

Christian, I think cdnmatt just made you an offer you can't refuse.

[witchhunt]

cdnmatt I have just caught up with my reading. That was an interesting story. I know you will do the right thing by your boy.

I know it will take a lot of patience.