How come Thai boys age so rapidly?

Have you noticed this. By the time many of them are 30, or even 27, they usually look 10 years older than people their age in the west? If you agree, what do you think are the reasons? Late hours? Too much Sangthip? Smoking? Yaba? Diseases?

I would think this causes some relationship issues. For example, a farang gets involved with a 22 year old and a few years later he looks 35. Obviously, the farangs liked young ones, so then what?

Debate and discuss ...

[Mi Cow Chai-old]

I met my bf when he was 17 he is 31 now. I am happy to say we are growing older together. I don't look the same either.

I met my bf when he was 17 he is 31 now. I am happy to say we are growing older together. I don't look the same either.
Thats cool, but is that typical?

[American Teacher-old]

I don't know if I agree. To me, it seems as though Thai men age better than we do. Have you taken a moment to look around and compare older farang men (In Pattaya) and older Thai men? The older Thai men get my vote by far. Certainly, if you travel up country -- sometimes the rough nature of their life in the rice fields age them quicker -- but in the cities, I don't see it.

I think -- just like us -- it is quality of life and quality of living. So yes, the cigs and the whiskey probably take their toll -- but I think it is the same back home.

Fondly,
Chris

www.niddysnook.com (http://www.niddysnook.com)
** Try Niddy's Special Mai Tai **
(Delicious and Potent!)

Hmmmm.
I don't think so.
The average 35 year old American homosexual watches his diet, eats healthy food, avoiding too many CHEESEBURGERS, exercises regularly, doesn't smoke to excess, and is not an alchoholic or drug addict, and they quite often look 25 and fabulous. I find it is rare to meet a Thai male age 35 who doesn't look his age or older.

I am pushing 50 and regularly get taken for my early 30s in Thailand, and not only by MBs, and I am not unusually youthful looking for a gay American.

In general, I think Asian tends to look much younger than farangs because of their diet and maybe their body built.
The thai boys that you mentioned that have aged faster might be the ones having little sleep, drinking too much alcohol, smokes and keeping an unhealthy lifestyle. It really is a pity to see a once handsome and goodlooking guy wither away. In a gay man's world, your value has gone down the drain especially if you are into the flesh trade.

[American Teacher-old]

Hmmmm.
I don't think so.
The average 35 year old American homosexual watches his diet, eats healthy avoided too many CHEESEBURGERS, exercises regularly, doesn't smoke to excess, and is not an alchoholic or drug addict, and they quite often look 25 and fabulous. I find it is rare to meet a Thai male age 35 who doesn't look his age or older.

I am pushing 50 and regularly get taken for my early 30s in Thailand, and not only by MBs, and I am not unusually youthful looking for a gay American.

That makes me laugh! Your not from the USA -- are you? That is certainly NOT the "average 35 year old American Homosexual." In fact, you might want to find some statistics illustrating the incredible amount of obesity in Americans and the result of too much indulgence in junk food. We are all mostly gluttons!

Fondly,
Chris

www.niddysnook.com (http://www.niddysnook.com)
** Home of Pataya's Tastiest CHEESEBURGER! **

In general, I think Asian tends to look much younger than farangs because of their diet and maybe their body built.
The thai boys that you mentioned that have aged faster might be the ones having little sleep, drinking too much alcohol, smokes and keeping an unhealthy lifestyle. It really is a pity to see a once handsome and goodlooking guy wither away. In a gay man's world, your value has gone down the drain especially if you are into the flesh trade.
I agree about Asians in general.
I disagree about THAIS in particular.
Test this yourself, go onto gaydar and have a GOOD LOOK at the FACES of Thai men over 27. Most are aged looking.
It is especially noticable in their faces.

I am most definitely from the USA, mostly San Francisco.
San Francisco gays don't eat many cheesburgers. They eat burritos.


Hmmmm.
I don't think so.
The average 35 year old American homosexual watches his diet, eats healthy avoided too many CHEESEBURGERS, exercises regularly, doesn't smoke to excess, and is not an alchoholic or drug addict, and they quite often look 25 and fabulous. I find it is rare to meet a Thai male age 35 who doesn't look his age or older.

I am pushing 50 and regularly get taken for my early 30s in Thailand, and not only by MBs, and I am not unusually youthful looking for a gay American.

That makes me laugh! Your not from the USA -- are you? That is certainly NOT the "average 35 year old American Homosexual." In fact, you might want to find some statistics illustrating the incredible amount of obesity in Americans and the result of too much indulgence in junk food. We are all mostly gluttons!

Fondly,
Chris

www.niddysnook.com (http://www.niddysnook.com)
** Home of Pataya's Tastiest CHEESEBURGER! **

[catawampuscat]

In the western countries, there is usually money for gyms, trainers, facials, massages, high quality fresh foods and surgery like lipo and lifts and tucks....
In the western countries, most homosexuals do not have the stress of making it thru every day and living in substandard accommodations.. Vanity is also
an issue and younger gay men tend to be vane and at least try to look younger as youth is so important in acceptance and getting laid..

In spite of this, farangs tend to age horribly and most let themselve go after 40 or so..Obesity is epidemic and unfortunately some never get it that
the comb-overs look ridiculous and black clothing doesn't hide the extra weight but is better than nothing.. Cosmetic surgery is big buiness here and many
choose liposuction and to have face lifts to look younger..One Thai boy I know well, said to me about a farang undergoing a face job, "Why he do that, he old already." He didn't understand why men in their late 50's or 60's would undergo the pain and recovery time when they still are old and have bigger breasts than most women.. I explained it was vanity and an effort to try to look younger..To the Thai boy it was crazy to spend all that money to look a little younger when you are still old...

I think another issue is exposure to the tropical sun twelves months a year without sun screening lotions..The guys that work outside look leathery
after enough years in the sun and the sun ages the skin.. Most farangs have learned that lesson and stay out of the sun but there are always those
who soak it up and think they look better but end up just looking like old wrinkled leather.. The farangs see mostly the underclasses and the poor who do age rapidly in the sun, without access to beauty care and hard lives toiling away..The middle and upper class Thais age very well , tend to be lighter skinned and more Chinese and look much younger than their farang counterparts..

One last issue is dental care and in third world countries the poor do not have access to dentists and the solution to toothaches is to pull the teeth, leaving many with gaps or few teeth and of course this makes one look years older..Farangs with bad teeth have many options and one only occassionally sees missing and diseased teeth.. The very poor in parts of the USA and Europe also age rapidly, are overexposed to the elements, and have missing or bad teeth..
By the way, don't the British have dentists? Amazing how poor the dental condition of most elderly Brits with oversized molars and one would think
dental braces never made it over the pond.....

Yes, cat, that is what I am talking about.
How many Thai boys have you met who use sunscreen? Also, its overpriced in Thailand.

.... For example, a farang gets involved with a 22 year old and a few years later he looks 35.

This is known as the 'Dorian Gray Farang effect' - spending time with an ageing Farang makes the boys grow old prematurely whilst a Farang is kept young by the youth of the boy.

Of course, it's all tosh and nonsense. you see Farang's of all ages and all states of decay, some wear well, others not so. The same applies to Thai guy's, some remain sprightly and attractive and can continue working the bars. I know of at least one popular gogo 'boy' who is 38 and still one of the most popular offs.

Interesting, but that is not really what I am talking about.
Of course, there is great variation among individuals, I am talking more about the generalities.
And besides that, people don't seem to be commenting on the implied core of my point, so let me restate.

Older farang moves halfway around the world to enjoy Thailand.
One of the main things he moves for is the easy availability and enthusiasm of YOUNG men.
Older farang enters "love relationship" with younger Thai man.
However, ECONOMICS is the underlying glue of why the young Thai man is there, and attraction to a YOUNG man is the attraction for the farang.
Five years later, quite often, the youngman is not looking so young anymore.
Assuming there isn't real love, whats to keep the farang from trading down again in age?
After all, the farang moved halfway around the world attracted by young men, and now he is "stuck" with a not young man.
Kind of like paying the cover charge, a steep cover charge at that, and not enjoying whats on offer.
All this is irelevant is there is "real love" between the two. However, I am skeptical about how real that is for most of these relationships based on years of observation.

Of course, Thai boys on the scene know all about the wandering eyes of farang. Not a very secure situation at all. And unlike the Thai females, they can't tie the deal up with marriage. They call such farang, bad farang. But are they bad farang? Such relationships are based on an EXCHANGE of what both don't have, the old farang wants youth, the youth wants money. If the farang runs out of money, the Thai boy will always leave, yes?, so why shouldn't the farang leave when the youth is no longer a youth?

BTW, I know I am sounding NOT very romantic ... starting to really feel like a farang who knows too much.

I would have said precisely the reverse of what Thaiquila has suggested.
I think that Thai men and most South East Asians look much younger than their western equivalents up to the age of about 35 and then start on a more rapid decline in the aging process. I know Thais who, when we first met, they were in their early 20's who are now in their mid thirties and they still look young, slim and attractive. Westerners of the same age group age much faster, get fatter quicker and look (to me) totally unattractive. But it's all a matter of individual perception and what suits you, may not suit me and vice verca.

:alien:

they are aging faster because they are becoming more like us?

On my first trips it seemed they all had perfect teeth, perfect skin, gorgeous shinning hair.
A friend explained to me, they eat very little refined sugar and very little meat: typically as little as 1/8-1/4 pound-per-day.
(Typical conversation: Num said, "No Beef!" So I asked what he wanted: "Hamburger." he sweetly replied.)
Judging from my own associations, my friend seemed to be right: an offer of a desert, other than fresh fruit, or candy was usually--nearly always--refused but, as time passed I was buying (them) more and more Snickers, shakes, sugared soft drinks, steaks, sweet rolls ('Doughnuss'), fried chicken, ribs and fast\junk food--And beer, whiskey and cigarettes. And after they get the beer, whiskey and cigarettes in the shopping bag they'll reach for one or two of those little bottles of (Nasty) chicken stock or Bacchus-F energy drink..."Oh very good vita-MIN." On the other hand; I know a couple in their sixties who look forty and a Jomtien massage boy pushing forty--With a Sherman tank--who looks twenty-something. Maybe it's, as Ginger says, "All in the jeans."

According to the USDA: In 1960 each American ate an average of 196 pounds of beef, pork and chicken; the amount has risen to 269 pounds in 2006.

[Surfcrest]

I am pushing 50 and regularly get taken for my early 30s in Thailand, and not only by MBs, and I am not unusually youthful looking for a gay American.

Pushing 50, but looking early thirty
Not unusual for any gay american?

A bit of a stretch I'd say

Surfcrest

[Aunty]

My experience of Thai men in their 30's (mostly here in NZ) are that they look a lot younger than their white(Kiwi) age matched counterparts. I put it down primarily to their superior diet and its emphasis on fresh produce, fruits and vegetables, something that a typical western diet is increasingly missing. In fact one of my Thai friends, Geng, who is about 34 easily passes for 24 and has a fantastic body, a six-pack, there's not an ounce of fat on him anywhere. Most young gay Kiwi men in their 20's would die for such a body, (let alone those in their 30s) but they just don't have it. Like Americans, and most populations of the English speaking West New Zealanders are also in the throws of an obesity epidemic, with over half our population overweight and or obese. We're not quite as bad yest as the Americans, and we're certainly not as bad as the Australians (now the world's fatest nation) but we're getting there.

We have by percentage of population a lot of Asians living in New Zealand, and generally it's acknowledged that they look younger than we do for the same age. I just read one of my travel dairies from China which I wrote in 1981 when I was 19, and a number of Chinese women crew on the Yangtze river ferry that I was on thought I was 30! 30, and I was 19! And this was before many Westerners had traveled to China and there wasn't one modern high rise building anywhere on the mainland that I saw, so there were no preconceptions there of what we should look like.

I was fascinated to read what Edith wrote about the increased consumption of meat by Americans between the 60's -00's. That coupled with our increasing consumption of sugar and fat, often hidden in food of low nutritive value and the prevailing epidemic of inactivity we see now with TVs, computers, computer games, cars and labour saving devices is making us (farangs) look a lot older than we are very quickly indeed.

Oh and I don't buy for one moment the notion that the 'average' American homosexual is doing anything of the sort you suggest Thaiqullia. That's likely just your fantasy dude, and may reflect the community you choose to hang out with, but it's not representative of gay Americans as a whole. If it is, where your evidence (the studies) that proves it?

I am mainly talking about the FACES.
Like I said before, of course you can find lots of exceptions. I just do find the Thai boys FACES often show their age usually starting over age 25. Bodies are probably generally better than Westerners overall, because less obesity, true.

SO.
No comment on the age old issue of farangs dumping OLD boys for new boys?

I am most interested in the moral/ethical angle of these EXCHANGE relationships. Don't people agree with me that if the farangs runs out of money, the Thai boys will vanish. So isn't it a fair EXCHANGE that when the Thai boy runs out of youth (however, you define it, but I define it when the face looks not fresh) that the farang should "renegotiate" the situation.
Going further, don't a lot of farangs put up with boys who are lazy bums, watching telly all day etc, which is cute for awhile, but so NOT CUTE when they get older?

[Smiles]

" .... No comment on the age old issue of farangs dumping OLD boys for new boys? . . . Going further, don't a lot of farangs put up with boys who are lazy bums, watching telly all day etc, which is cute for awhile, but so NOT CUTE when they get older?... ... "
Well, if you are talking butterlies then that happens all the time anyway. It's at the very heart of the GoGo meat market . . . the rollover of the dance floor participants on a regular timetable with the older leaving, and the younger entering through a revolving door. The GoGo guys know that, and the clientele know it, and expect it. That's the business, so no comment really necessary . . . the business's nature is mutually excepted.

If you're talkng about long-term relationships then probably no comment because that would be an admittion of some fundamental shallowness of character . . . and who wants to do that?

All I can do is comment on my own case (not the generalisms you say you want) . . . . which is a perfectly content and loyal 7-year relationship with the same guy, and a retirement coming up for me which will (finally!) mean living together and watching each other grow old. So I guess I'll be able to test your theory out in the real world then.

My guy was already 31 when we met (and I was oh so happy to find that out: though I would have guessed he was in the 25 or 26 area when we first met), and I was 52. He's now 38 (I'm 59) and I can tell the difference in many ways: more maturity of action (though he was always mature); better & better English (though it was always quite good); comfortable in arguing with me (quite stubbornly I might add!) etc etc ec

But you say you're talking about faces (his body is as always: hard, fat-less, and and and) . . . well that has changed also. He has wrinkles where there were none (mostly around his eyes), but frankly, that's about it. His skin is as smooth as I always remember . . . though every time we meet on my arrival at Don Muang his cheeks always seen a bit hollow and his eyes a bit tired . . . that's from the work in the country from which he has just left, and that 'look' disappears within a week as we get into our on rythym of "rela" and "sanuk".

None of his aging is unattractive to me in any way. And I hope (and he says!) none of mine is unattractive to him. I have no interest in anyone but him ... never have: to be completely & eye-rollingly maudlin about the whole thing, I love his heart more than his face or body ~ and that just gets better and better.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not making any judgement about those butterflys who prefer very much younger guys when they come to Thailand ... and who might regularly toss aside the older for the younger, or, who choose the younger over the older when playing the number game in GoGo and Host bars: there they choose by "looks", and everyone excepts that. To be honest, that's what I originally thought I'd be doing on my first holiday in Thailand.

But "dumping" (your word) one's partner simply for a natural degradation in "looks" in the middle of what both parties agree is a long-term relationship brings up huge moral issues around 'loyalty', and 'sincerity', and 'committment', and 'honesty' (all those ~ and more ~ of Dr Phil's middle-class angsts), and makes one think about one's relationship in much starker terms than one would when picking a number in a GoGo bar.
In other words, the rather disturbing notion of "love" comes into play in (successful!) longterm relationships which is blessedly NOT part of the equation when one is deciding to dump a favourite GoGo boy for one more fresh in the cheek. That's easy: Do it! 'Mai pen rai' both parties should say.

But when "love" raises it's nasty guilt-ridden head and becomes an integral part of the moral complications, then I would think "a young face" would probably be a long way down the list of things to take into consideration.

All this IMHO only.

Purely coincidently . . . just before I left for Thailand on this last trip I was talking with Suphot on the phone. We were just discussing details of what were going to do and places we were going to go, and telling each other how much we missed etc etc etc ... same old stuff.
At some point in the conversation he said ~ rather out of the blue really ~ that " ... I am come to be old now, look ugly. When you see me (at the airport) I hope you not run away ... ". I laughed at that, then he laughed at that ... and then I knew he was only joking, bcause he knew (inside!) I was really not going to run away.

Cheers ....

Thats a sweet story.
Do you give him an economic benefit, money, a business, free rent, etc?
If so, if you stopped that, would he still be with you?
If so, you do NOT have an EXCHANGE based relationship.

But does anyone deny that most of the older farang/younger Thai relationships are EXCHANGE based relationships where wealth is expected to be spent on the Thai and if the wealth goes away, the Thai goes away?
I don't see this as shallow, I see this as another common type of relationship.

[Smiles]

(1) Do you give him an economic benefit, money, a business, free rent, etc?

(2) If so, if you stopped that, would he still be with you?

(1) Yes. I give him a small amount each month deposited into an account here at home. He has the only ATM card, and the money is without any strings whatsoever. He can spend it, save it, give it to relatives etc etc etc. I rarely look at the balance.
The amount deposited (which has not changed since I started this 6 years ago) is not even close to covering living costs for a month living on a farm in Isaan.

(2) No. I would not think it would be an amount large enough for him to consider it a reason to continue an unwanted relationship (but of course, that's just a 'feeling'). Obviously I could not test this for veracity until he (or I) decide to actually put it to the test by ending everything. Since neither of us seem to be willing to do that, I'm not sure whether this observation will satisfy you or anyone else.


I think you are quite correct in at least parts of your observations regarding Thai guys gettting older and losing their "looks" ... as well as economic "attachments" having real and important dynamics in relationships ~ be they with Thais or whoever.

I'm just trying to point out that in the minority of cases ~ (and I agree they are a minority situation) ~ i.e. successful long term relationships between Thai men and farang . . . . the "looks" factor and the "economic" factors can be relegated to a station that is much further down the list of importance than it will obviously be for relationships which are ~ by their very nature ~ more transitory and impermanent.

Cheers ...

OK, try not to get too mad about this, but I would be interested in a followup observation.
My theory is that almost ALL relationships between OLDER farangs and YOUNGER Thais are EXCHANGE based relationships.
You say you give him a pittance of money. Well, your guy now has a pittance of youth, so maybe that is perceived as a FAIR EXCHANGE by both of you?
I can't imagine an older farang getting involved with a stunning Thai in his early 20s and not having to really dig deep into the ATM, can you?

I am pushing 50 and regularly get taken for my early 30s in Thailand, and not only by MBs, and I am not unusually youthful looking for a gay American.

Pushing 50, but looking early thirty
Not unusual for any gay american?

A bit of a stretch I'd say

Surfcrest
Not in the context I presented it.
Most Thai 50 year olds look like Gramps near death's door.
So when I tell a Thai that I am 50 and I don't look like Gramps, to their eyes, I look younger.
I think this is why the Thai retirement visa age is as long as 50, they culturally think 50 is REALLY OLD!!!!

[Surfcrest]

I am pushing 50 and regularly get taken for my early 30s in Thailand, and not only by MBs, and I am not unusually youthful looking for a gay American.

Pushing 50, but looking early thirty
Not unusual for any gay american?
A bit of a stretch I'd say

Surfcrest
Not in the context I presented it.
Most Thai 50 year olds look like Gramps near death's door.
So when I tell a Thai that I am 50 and I don't look like Gramps, to their eyes, I look younger.
I think this is why the Thai retirement visa age is as long as 50, they culturally think 50 is REALLY OLD!!!!

I find it difficult to believe that anyone has this perception that an individual
pushing 50 looks like they are in their early thirties.
sounds like "sweet mouth" to me.
To assume that this is the usual in gay america is a stretch.
If you have some evidence to the contrary, would love to see that!

Surfcrest

No hard evidence about any of this, we are just talking here.
I am really more interested in the dynamics of these common EXCHANGE relationships and what happend when the Thai boy is no longer able to offer his youth, because he has lost it. We know what happens when the farang no longer offers the money.

[Smiles]

" ... You say you give him a pittance of money. Well, your guy now has a pittance of youth... "
Putting your own descriptions on other's statements is a foolish game.

I made no mention of a "pittance". I give him "what I can easily afford". It's not a pittance to him and neither do I think of it as such. If you wish to think of it as such, hey dude, up to you.
And seeing as how I think he is the most handsome and sexy guy in Thailand, it wouldn't exactly be saying he is giving me his last pittance of youth. Far from it.

I already said I agree with some of your statements ... but in total they are too much single-minded generalization, taking into consideration too few variations on a theme.


"... We know what happens when the farang no longer offers the money ... "
So if you already "know" (or already know the answer you want), why bother asking? And who is "we"?


Cheers ...

[GWMinUS]

I want to step in here...

First, because I had the pleasure of meeting Suphot on my trip to Isan. You will see some more pics of him in the Album I am putting together. I would never have thought he was 38!!! He is extremely handsome. His face reflects his years of working outside, but he does not look 50!!! Beyond that, I can testify to his inter-beauty. He has a wonderful smile and a quick wit. I wish him and Smiles all the best.

Second, I have a special friend in Thailand. He is not my lover. I met him in a Go-go Bar, Tomahawk, 5 years ago. I thought he was 24. He was actually 26. So now he is 31 and still the most handsome man I know. He has had his ups and downs. A year ago, he had put on some weight, but it was attractive. He kept saying how fat he had become. This past February, he had lost much of it. No longer the hard body, six-pack, that I had originally been attracted to. But still very stunning. And, I might add, his other beauty is still as attractive as ever!!! :cheese:

Now, about money. You could say WE have an exchange relationship. I send him money from time to time. I buy him presents when I am in Bangkok. But this is because I can afford to. And it makes me happy. I do not think our friendship would evaporate if I stopped being generous.

Other Guys are different. I have known another Go-Go Boy for several years, and it has always been about money. He is now 28, works at Boys Bangkok, and still looks good. Beautiful face. And great in bed. But it is about making a living. I accept that.

SO, in the end, I think it is wrong to make generalizations. I am older, 65, but I still have "jai dee" and the guys tell me that. I believe them. Attractiveness is in the heart, not the face... :flower:

George

Jai dee is Thai for sucker.

It isn't at all wrong to make generalizations. Everyone does it, and it makes for interesting discussions.

[Mi Cow Chai-old]

Thaiquila it seems to me that this is not a discussion. You are not open to any statement that doesn't agree with you. All relationships are exchange relationships even hetrosexual marriage. Money is always involved.

Thaiquila it seems to me that this is not a discussion. You are not open to any statement that doesn't agree with you. All relationships are exchange relationships even hetrosexual marriage. Money is always involved.
That is ridiculous. Of course, I am going to argue my point. I don't really agree that all relationships are exchange relationships, but many are. I am romantic enough to believe in true love, I am also realistic enough to be VERY skeptical that the impression of romantic love in most Thai boy/old farang relationships is anything more than a DELUSION, often a DELUSION gently pampered by both parties for mutual benefit.
I am not for one moment saying exchange relationships are worthless. I just wanted to talk about the long term consequences when the exchange part breaks down (Thai boy no longer a boy or farang no longer has enough money to "keep") because I think this is a very relevant topic for many gay expats and potential expats in Thailand.
And remember, hets have the LEGAL GLUE of marriage, we don't.

[Bob]

Seems somebody has gotten a bit off topic.

As to the orignal post and question, I don't agree at all based on my experiences. In my opinion, almost every thai guy
I know that's under 35 looks 5-10 years younger than westerners. I'm almost always surprised when I ask a thai his
age (they are almost all older than I think). And I've met some 60-75 year old thai men who also look younger than a 60-75 year old westerner - at least that's my opinion. I'm sure there are some who look their age but I haven't found many.

Agree with you, Bob. Don't know where the original poster is coming from.

Agree with you, Bob. Don't know where the original poster is coming from.
I am most definitely from the USA, mostly San Francisco.
San Francisco gays don't eat many cheesburgers. They eat burritos.
Perhaps his more general comments about America(ns) are based on a more limited view of San Francicso? <shrug> People will always see what they expect (want?) to see.

Yeah, everyone operates using their own filters.

Regarding the thread, I don't see any reason people can't talk about both topics, the fast aging theory, and also the issue of exchange based relationships. As I see it, they are very related topics.

Could be I have become too jaded for anyone's good. First time I went to Thailand went to Bangkok Boys and I would have been happy with about 1/2 of all their workers. Now, I am lucky to have the slightest interest in 1 out of 100 of them. I actually like it better this way, but another lesson about internal filters. We are all different, I would be the first to admit it, and I appreciate the different perspectives expressed.

OK, here is a good example.
Check out the cover "boy" of Spice:

http://www.stickyrice.ws/

His face to my eyes is an old man's face, over 40, but knowing Thais, I bet he is 27. And I bet at age 22 he looked totally different.

To my mind the cover boy of Spice does not look Thai; more Japanese.

To my mind the cover boy of Spice does not look Thai; more Japanese.
??? Are we looking at the same link???

http://www.stickyrice.ws/

[elephantspike]

You are talking about the latest cover as of now, thaiquilla, Right? This guy:

http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/images/cover015.jpg

I'd guess him at around 30-35 or so, perfect age-wise as far as I'm concerned. Not exactly my type, but hey, you can't please all of the people all of the time. He is what he is.

Interesting that you have chosen to use Sticky Rice (http://www.stickyrice.ws/) as an example of aging Thai male beauty. It seems that the sexy thirtyish Thai guy is the type that they prefer on Sticky Rice (http://www.stickyrice.ws/) (which I very much approve of!). Take a look at some of the other cover-guys recently:

http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/images/cover014.jpg

Oh yeah, Baby!! (Throw him out of bed because he has grown-up? Are you Mad?)

And this one:

http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/images/cover009.jpg

Very much my type. well over 25, I assume.

This guy could be as old as I am (40), but I'm going to guess a few years younger, but still very hot, nonetheless:

http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/images/cover005.jpg

http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/images/cover002.jpg

Is That a Cafe' Royale uniform? Oh my Buddha! (faint)

This one has to be close to 35 or so (My g-g-generation) What a babe!

http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/images/cover001.jpg







As Smiles implies, what is inside is more important anyway, and you can't see that from looking at a picture. You can't even see that well what is outside. Some people are just much sexier in person than they appear in photos.

Yes, I meant the first guy.
Yes, he does look rather old for a cover boy, but I would guess he is actually 27 or even 25, though he looks much older, based on my theory of quickly aging Thai boys.

[elephantspike]

Interesting. I just see them all as really handsome Thai models in their prime years for male modeling . Some of them I find hotter than others, but I would guess them all at around 30.

Jai dee is Thai for sucker.

It isn't at all wrong to make generalizations. Everyone does it, and it makes for interesting discussions.

Jai dii is NOT Thai for sucker! Whilst some Thai boys have the standard line of patter, you can spot them within five minutes, many other boys do not go down this route. I have heard Thai's say about Farang and about other Thai boys that they have 'jai dii mag mag' and mean it.

Whilst it is interesting to make generalisations, it is also a little offensive sometimes. I know you are provoking an interesting discussion, but it leads to assumptions or insuations about others relationships, assumptions which could be upsetting. I am extremely happy for those farang who have found the man of their dreams and managed to maintain a relationship for many years. To insinuate that they are blind to the 'facts' says more about you than it does about those who have found happiness and a relationship which suits them.

I think the answer you are looking for in your general questioning of Thai/Farang relationships is 'Yes'. If a Thai guy can drop a farang when the money runs out, then in turn a farang can drop a Thai guy when the looks or body begins to tire. However, if a relationship has been going on for such a long a time that a boy's looks wither to the extent that you suggest, then I 'assume' that there is more to the relationship than purely physical attraction. I think the reason farang move on to other boys has less to do with the ageing of the boy and more to do with the nature of the farang concerned. Nature (or nurture) will always dictate in some of us the need for another conquest. There will always be a younger, more handsome boy with dazzling smile, pert little ass, hard cock and winning personality that will keep us farang feeling that we too are still young and attractive. There is nothing wrong in this but isn't it better to have what some farang have (like Smiles), a relationship that continues, with shared experiences and something that is real. I hope and believe that whether money is involved or not is irrelevant in these longer term relationships as something has obviously grown which makes any monetary incentive less and less important.

I was only talking about the FIRST model, BTW.

I was waiting for someone to get their dander up a bit.
About generalizations, if we don't talk in generalizations, then all anybody has to offer is their personal anecdotal "stories" which we can believe or not, but they are very limited. They are interesting, but I tend to think that some people paint a rosier picture of their own reality than is objective truth.

I never for one moment said that exchange relationships don't have value. And of course, two people together through a shared experience of years can actually fall in "real love", many societies have had arranged marriages for eons, and a lot of these couples grow to love each other over time.

However, I still think most farangs attracted to gay Thailand are attracted to youthful gay Thailand, so I find it a bit of a paradox that many of these farang end up with older guys, and worthy of discussion.

My first Thai boy, i can't remember how he looks at first, but i still try to make a Visa to get him in my home.

http://upload4.postimage.org/251464/OLD_AGE_HEAD_3.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/251464/photo_hosting.html)

Nice pecs.
You might try the student visa route. I can see him hanging out with the freshmen.

[Mi Cow Chai-old]

"real love" and "objective truth" WOW!

"real love" and "objective truth" WOW!
Yeah, WOW.
Another thought, I wonder if Spice is going with over 30 looking boys for their covers to try to avoid being arrested and banned for crimes against Thai morality? I still think most of us are more interested in under 30 looking boys.

[Smiles]

" ... About generalizations, if we don't talk in generalizations, then all anybody has to offer is their personal anecdotal "stories" which we can believe or not, but they are very limited ... "
OK, you want generalizations, here's a few which may or may not satisfy you:


(1) Yes, Thai guys 'age' (physically) as they grow older. Just as in the rest of the world, they 'age' (physically) at different rates.

(2) Yes, the majority of gay Farang who come on holidays to Thailand indulge in the chasing/offing of younger Thai guys.

(3) Yes, the minority of gay Farang are involved in satisfying, successful, monogamous relationships with Thai guys.

(4) Yes, the large majority of GoGo boys are in it for the money, not for love.

(5) Yes, there are exceptions to #4

(6) Yes, many Farang wear rose-colored glasses and are often fooled, or make fools of themselves.

(7) Yes, there are exceptions to #6

(8) Most generalizations which are made regarding the topic at hand are not rigourous generalizations, but cliches.

I can add more to this list if you do not think the ground has been adequately covered.


" ... I was waiting for someone to get their dander up a bit ... "

And no, dander not up . . . and yes, this topic is interesting, though it is hardly original.
How many times over the years has this (admittedly fundamental) topic raised it's head?

Cheers ...

[piston10]

Now that's a sensible post that really gets us somewhere. It seems unanswerable to me - but that doesn't mean it won't be answered!

I am not paid enough to be original ...

Cliches, huh, so you don't think they have a large grain of truth? Do you think it is impossible to come to reasonably accurate generalizations about ANYTHING, such as fat people tend to sweat more, etc.? I think we can learn more from generalizations than anecdotal cases, these don't prove anything, because there are exceptions to everything.

Anyway, something you left out:

(3) Yes, the minority of gay Farang are involved in satisfying, successful, monogamous relationships with Thai guys

What about the gay farang involved in UNsatisfying, UNsuccessful, perhaps NON monogamous long term relationships with Thai guys? What are the reasons? Is the fact that these are mostly exchange based relationships the reason for the dissatisfaction or breakups, or incidental to it?

[piston10]

you are not using words quite clearly enough. There can be 'exceptions' to a generalisation but not to 'anecdotal cases studies' (specific cases would perhaps be better?). There can only be cases that are different from a specific case. In most discussions we walk a tightrope between the general and the specific and introduce the specific to throw doubt on the absolute truth of the generalisation - or, on the other hand, to back up the generalisation. The specific case never disproves the generalisation and the generalisation never makes a specific, different case an impossibility;though both specific cases and generalisation may modify our understanding or our point of view.

On the Forum we get a lot of generalisations and a lot of specific cases, especially on the matter of farang/Thai relationships. Very often we are using a specific case (sometimes our own experience) to throw doubt on a generalisation, but it also happens that (as you would expect in discussion between a wide range of people) we pit one generalisation against an opposing one. This is where the trouble starts. The tactic often leads to ill feeling, assertions of superior knowlege or experience to justify our stand, expressions of disdain, and, between the rougher elements, slanging matches.

I'm not quite sure what Smiles means by a rigorous generalisations (what would a 'rigorous generalisation' be like?), but I can see the main thrust of his post and applaud it. Basically, he has juxtaposed a number of apparently conflicting generalisations in order to suggest how complicated the truth of the matter is. None of them will fully describe the situation, which involves thousands of very different people with varied personalities, aims and intentions. To lay too heavy an emphasis on one generalistion, he seems to say, will be to miss the truth of what things are really like. There are no absolutes, and if we think there are we are probably looking for support for our own prejudices, needs, moral, psychological or emotional condition. This is why I find his post 'unanswerable'.

To my mind the cover boy of Spice does not look Thai; more Japanese.
??? Are we looking at the same link???

http://www.stickyrice.ws/

Silly me. I did not check the link.
When you said Spice I thought you meant Spice not Sticky Rice. This is the cover boy of the new Spice magazine:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/padlom/spice-may06.jpg

I still think he looks Japanese.

To my mind the cover boy of Spice does not look Thai; more Japanese.
??? Are we looking at the same link???

http://www.stickyrice.ws/

Silly me. I did not check the link.
When you said Spice I thought you meant Spice not Sticky Rice. This is the cover boy of the new Spice magazine:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/padlom/spice-may06.jpg

I still think he looks Japanese.
Yeah, he is stunning.

My first Thai boy, i can't remember how he looks at first, but i still try to make a Visa to get him in my home.

The problems not getting `er in, it's getting `er out!

My first Thai boy, i can't remember how he looks at first, but i still try to make a Visa to get him in my home.

The problems not getting `er in, it's getting `er out!
Just wait a few days, er ... minutes.

Trust me, Thai boys DO worry about not being attractive to farangs as they age. I plan on moving to thailand in the next few years. My BF has asked if we can buy a condo/House together. when I asked why he wanted the condo/house partially in his name, he replied that because if I own it completely in my name, I may "dump" him when he is not young anymore and kick him out and he will have nothing. His insecurity kinda shocked me, and I assured him that I felt it was much more likely he would get tired of my old bones long before the visa versa. I accept the fact for many of these guys with limited education and wage earning capability, Security IS more important than LOVE. You can't really blame them. My guy recently told me his mother taught him Money is more important than Love.. "you can't eat Love" his mother told him. LOL So many farangs seem so shocked to find out that Thai guys will have multiple "BFs".. receiving financial help from each. We see it as being dishonest and they just see it as survival. In their eyes.. even us lower to middle class guys are considered "Rich" to them.. and they have no concept of our "cost of living" back home.

As to older gay farangs all being in great shape and looking great... That might appear true if you hang out in West Hollywood. But that is because only the "beautiful People" dare hangout there. If you want to see what the real "average" middle age gay man looks like.. you have to go to the baths/saunas. There you will see a different picture. You will MAYBE see one in 15 guys who is in shape. You WILL see alot of wrinkled faces, sagging bellies, bald heads and hairy backs. Almost like the gay beach in Pattaya LOL)

... If you want to see what the real "average" middle age gay man looks like... You WILL see alot of wrinkled faces, sagging bellies, bald heads and hairy backs. Almost like the gay beach in Pattaya LOL)

Oh lord, to be hoped that description is never used to composit a photofit pic' of some guy who has been up to no good here. I, and a good percentage of others, will be banged up before we can say 'I never touched him!'

[elephantspike]

I have split this topic. This topic is about aging and relationships. The posts about Niddy'y Nook are now in a new thread, here:

http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... 7607#77607 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=77607#77607)

Re: I see you know Pearl.




My first Thai boy, i can't remember how he looks at first, but i still try to make a Visa to get him in my home.

The problems not getting `er in, it's getting `er out!
Just wait a few days, er ... minutes.

Or however long it takes for the gin to run out.