STI's re the boys (or farang for that matter!) in Thailand?

So, following on from a post in another thread that vnman had made about "apart from STi's and getting sick whilst in Thailand" etc it just made me wonder re on that very ( never talked about ) subject - we all hear from people in the west just how bad we are going near Thailand and getting involved with those "bad, disease ridden prostitutes etc" when on holiday and we witness ( or I do anyway) how some people look down their noses at us and quote how rampant STI's are in Thailand etc, so is any brave enough to be honest and admit or discuss their experiences - good or bad ??

I can start ( boringly but thankfully perhaps) by saying that apart from that whole HIV risk thing that I'd posted about last year,(which thankfully ended up clear for me but not my Thai guy as we'd only had safe sex thank god !) I've never had any problems or issues or picked up "anything" whilst in Thailand ( I can't say the same about the west however many years ago :-( ! ) and I would actually add that I firmly believe that because of the line of work the guys are in "most" of them that I see ( or at least the smarter ones) are much MORE aware and concerned about STI's and safe sex than some of the crazy farang I talk to who are either totally stupid and not aware or anything or more scarily they think "it'll never happen to me" brigade and go about fucking their brains out without a condom in sight !

I was actually talking to a guy the other night who claimed he has been going with many working guys in Thialand for over 15 years and ONLY ever has UNprotected sex by choice and states he has never caught anything ( VERY fortunate man if that's the case I would think) and I'm probably thinking it's more like he's never been to be tested to find out ( which he denies). I know I certainly have witnessed Thai guys that I'm with very subtly "checking me out" before they go down on me etc (as I do with them) which again that is more than I can say for some farang guys I know ! Also sometimes ( just to get a feel for the boy, I've intimated "do we need a condom" to see the reaction and EVERY SINGLE time they guy ( thankfully) has said "no, condom better!" with a look of "don't even think about it buster" - which I should add is exactly what I wanted to see and made me much more relaxed being with him - but "obviously" I assume that's not always the case in pattaya so is anyone honest enough to say " yeah, I don't use protection and the guys are happy enough with that for a few baht more (or not even) - and I say that in a totally none judgemental way and purely more from a researching the facts point of view as of course whatever you chose to do is "up to you".

So all in all I personally think the perception that the working guys get is a wrong one and whilst we should always of course "take care" I believe that "most" Thai ( working) guys are in fact very safe sex conscious - but that's only in my experience - and I've also heard stories of the Doctor's issuing fake "clean bills of health" certificates to go go guys for small amounts of money without even examining them when the guys KNOW they have "something" (anyone else ever hear of this ?) so does anyone else have any other views or experiences or infections they're prepared to talk about so we all get perhaps clearer picture if me view is perhaps wrong ? - and which lets face it whilst not being the most welcome thing in life STI's aren't the end of the world and theres no need to be shy in talking about this subject ( hopefully?).

[joe552]

NIrish Guy, I've never had a problem with STI's since I only sleep with virgins (no, honestly - they told me that :dontknow: )

But as you say, I can't understand guys NOT practising safe sex, and the boys I've been with have always done so.

[pong]

yes, agree with you, NIman. With MBs using protection is a given fact. It is more the general public, like in gay sauna's, who tend to take more risks.
From what I understand, HIV is fairly high in TH, but most of them are in some way drug-users or attached to them. it is not gay sex per se that is the main source of infections. But i am no expert and if someone knows better and can tell/explain why, i' ll accept that.

[gregvc]

I lived in BKK for ten years 1997-2007 and had friends who were doctors at HIVNAT. I often saw the waiting room there and at Red Cross and there were many recognisable guys from Pattaya. On my last visit to Pattaya I could not see any, although I know they move on after a few years. The basic drug regimen here is ok but those who fail, face problems, economic and physically. Of course, being positive may not show for years and the results of unsafe sex can be years before a person has the will to be tested, Thailand still has high infection rates. It is good that others report guys are more assertive in using safe sex.

[colmx]

From my experience - I think that most Thai working boys are quite careful when it comes to older farang
But less careful when it comes to younger farang
And when it comes to thai-for-thai they are not careful at all

Seems that they have been educated that STIs coem from old farang
(don't worry i class myself in the old farang bracket too! When i say young farang i mean those under 30)

An Irish friend of mine was in Pattaya with me in 2010 and 2011 and he coudn't get the boys to keep condoms on all all... they were always trying to sneak the condoms off during sex... or sneak onto his cock bareback when he wasn't paying attention!

As to STIs - I caught one infection 10 years ago... it was NSU (Non-Specific Urethritis)
NSU can be caused by bacteria that usually live harmlessly in the body but can trigger NSU if they get into the urethra, usually during sexual contact
It was picked up during a 5 day marathon session of Babylon all day and silom all night!
Whilst i was always careul with sex - doc reckons it was casued by friction and over ejaculation so its not really an STI per se

I have also paid for lots of boys to be treated for gonnorrea @500B in the clinic - all claim that the infection was picked up from getting a BJ from people that had eaten Pappaya salad or spicey food recently!

As an aside the NSU is how i met my current BF... I had NSU (no sex for a week and he looked after getting me to the doc etc)he had a wisdom tooth removed (no sex for a week and i looked after getting him to the dentist etc)

So we both just "hung out" together for that week....
After that we have (rarely) looked back!

[joe552]

just to clarify that I'm not the Irish friend colmx refers to - I've never had a Thai boy sneak onto my cock when I wasn't looking. costs me a fortune to get them to do it when I am looking :dontknow:

[colmx]

just to clarify that I'm not the Irish friend colmx refers to - I've never had a Thai boy sneak onto my cock when I wasn't looking. costs me a fortune to get them to do it when I am looking :dontknow:

And its not Martin911, Ronan the Barbarian or NIrish guy either!
He is too cool for these boards!
And too cool for thailand now!

well if he's a friend of your's colmx ... id imagine he drinks like you do ... so my educated guess (and also gives the reason as to why he is now to cool for thailand ) would be george best ??? :tongue3:

[colmx]

I just realised when posting in another thread that the Glandular fever that i picked up back in January can probably also be classed as an STI
Infectious Mononucleosis aka epstein-Barr syndrome aka Glandular fever aka Mono aka "kissing disease"!

Most people get it when they are a kid... it seems that whilst i caught every disease in the world when i was younger... i somehow managed to miss this one until i was 37!

It completely knocked me for 6 and i ended up missing a week (in quarantine) from work with suspected german measles
Eventually when the blood results came back it was identified as the epstein-Barr virus, I also found out that i have an underactive thyroid... so in someways catching glandular fever helped to identify a potentially more dangerous condition... which is now under treatment

The abuse i got in work when my mystery illness was revealed was unbelievable!

Where did i catch it?
From kissing i presume!
(or possibly from smoking a shared Shi Sha pipe)

[colmx]

well if he's a friend of your's colmx ... id imagine he drinks like you do ... so my educated guess (and also gives the reason as to why he is now to cool for thailand ) would be george best ??? :tongue3:

Actually too cool was probably the wrong term... He doesn't like paying for sex... so now he stays away from Thailand
And he is a real light weight when it comes to drink, so didn't go out with myself or Martins regularity or longevity.
In fact he is such a light weight...He is probably secretly English! :blackeye: :blackeye: :blackeye:

[christianpfc]

I know I certainly have witnessed Thai guys that I'm with very subtly "checking me out" before they go down on me etc (as I do with them)
Can you elaborate on this? I don't know what you want to say.

Brithai - apart from anything else, George Best is dead!

is he !!!!!! no one told me ... but the clue was in to cool for thailand ... :dontknow:
christain i think he means checking for warts etc etc on the willy ...

Thank you Brit for sparing my blushes as yes of course that amongst other things was exactly what I meant :-)

Christian you MUST surely have done this yourself many times as surely it's only human nature to look at what you're about to eat ! lol The guys ( and myself to I happily admit) would always have a quick look on their way down, no doubt checking for lice, genital warts, nasty discharge or anything else that may leave you with more than memories from your trip lol - and seeing it's you Christian I should point out that I don't mean a full medical, accompanied by your last three years doctors medical notes and a certificate of cleanliness lol but more just a quick glance, perhaps a quick pull back of the foreskin ( if there is one) and a quick sniff - all standard training given here in the UK on day one at "how to be a good gay" camp....do they not have that where you live then - if not perhaps you could lobby your Government to start one as ours are very effective as I can now smell a rancid cock at 90 paces ! ?? lol

Brithai - apart from anything else, George Best is dead!

And the rumours that it was a night out with Colmx that done for him are still unproven and a matter for the courts to decide !!!! :-)

[joe552]

well I heard he got Bin Laden as well (but anti-biotics cleared it up eventually). :occasion9:

[Impulse]

It makes perfect sense for thais to think older falang are more likely to have an sti. More shags over time and you are more exposed than a "newbie". That is why I search out the virgin types when I'm in Pattaya. :8(

However, this is not a guarantee. In fact after being with a nice young fem type from Mic My(over 18), I had to get treated for a rash from a local clinic,for the first time. He was kinda biting me and must have broken the skin. all clear in a few days after some cream and some pills.
so you never know who has what. If a guy has no sign of warts,they might still have a strain of hpv which can cause cancer. The wart causing strain of hpv is harmless.

i always tell myself to stick to one guy on my trip....never works out that way in reality.

[BonTong]

From my experience - I think that most Thai working boys are quite careful when it comes to older farang
But less careful when it comes to younger farang
And when it comes to thai-for-thai they are not careful at all

I largely agree with the above, though a little different here in Chiang Mai. The straight Tai Yai from the host bars have already been brainwahsed that all Farang customers are evil monsters and have every possible disease going, so they MUST use a condom. Not so with Thai customers from what I hear; they have a better ability to communicate and sweet talk to get what they want :evil4: (see video below) Since few of the Tai Yai straight boys bottom it's probably a mute point. Among the freelancers (Tai Yai, Akha, Lisu etc), the message hasn't always reached them and they sometimes need prompting to use condoms.

However, the same guys throw common sense out the window when it comes to going with the ladies. Over the years I know of many Tai Yai's we've pushed in the direction of the Dr's Clinic for one STI or another, always contracted via hetrosexual sex, usually from the old 200 Bt whores on the notorious Soi 4 (Chang Puek, not Silom ). There is certainly a myth going around that only sex with men is risky! I only need to consider the number of Tai Yai guys I know who have offspring with their "bar girl" other halves to understand how much they practice safe sex :idea1:

When it comes to Thai gay boys it seems, whilst they might insist on a condom with Farangs, next day they'll be down the sauna in the dark room with their arse in the air for all comers. Don't take my word for it, just look at the HIV infection rate among MSM sauna goers!

This video was a good attempt by MPLUS to educate Bar Boys, please share it with your bar boy friends:

[youtube:2p7fpc96]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L77Iug-MbJc[/youtube:2p7fpc96]

When it comes to Thai gay boys ........ next day they'll be down the sauna in the dark room with their arse in the air for all comers. Don't take my word for it, just look at the HIV infection rate among MSM sauna goers!


You're absolutely correct there Bontong and in fact you're words reminded me of a situation I'd almost forogtten about a few years ago now where I'd been in Babylon literally a few hours before I was due to fly home and ended up with a rough sort of up country Thai guy who I knew was going to be hot and heavy ( and he was) however somewhere in the translation ( as it was his clear intention to fuck the life out of me it seemed) anyway somewhere in the translation the tables were turned and I ended up topping him - and without going into to much detail as it was my last fuck before I left and he was strong and fit and "rough" it ended up fairly full on, noisy, hard sex which went on for quite a while lol ( much to my own surprise !) and needless to say it felt great........actually almost TOO great and I was aware just how "nice" and "different" it felt the long I was fucking him, so anyway I came and it felt WONDERFUL and I was very aware of it and then pulled out to find that the condom had obviously long since burst and was basically non existent which to be honest was the reason it felt so nice / different.

Anyway, I instantly weighed up the situation, explained to him the condom had burst and asked him his status to be sure etc - only to get a blank look, I explained again thinking it was a translation issue ( it wasn't) and asked him again and he basically waved his hand in the air as if to say "oh as if I'd know !", I then asked him had he EVER been tested, to which he said yes ( bearing in mind he was from up country I was seriously starting to doubt this) and when I asked when exactly he fired off several answers ranging from last week, last month, 6 months ago in a hope that one of the answers would suffice so I was fairly sure that he'd probably NEVER been tested and either knew ( nor cared) about his status as the whole condom breaking thing just raised a ( worrying ) couldn't care less shrug of the shoulders from him and I got the strongest feeling that there was just something that was just now right about the guy or his status.

So, thinking about it the whole way home on the plane and weighing up the risk i.e. Thailand, gay sex, anal sex, in a sauna, with a guy with no health concern - bugger it I literally got off the plane and drove STRAIGHT to my local GUM (std) clinic here in my City and explained the situation and was immediately given PEP ( the tablets you can take up to 72 hours after being exposed to risk that basically kills off any chance of HIV infection).

I can tell you whilst sitting going through the situation as the Doc was weighing up the risks ( as they don't give you PEP just because YOU ask for it, it's expensive (and free here on the NHS so they have to be sure you DO actually need it) but he sat and went through the various quiestions such as where were you, with you, safe or not etc etc and his face just got greyer and greyer as I covered the whole Bangkok, gay sauna, unknown guy, burst condom ( I think he assumed I meant no condom actually which wasn't the case) and without another word he opened the PEP cupboard and handed me the pills and explained just HOW high the HIV ( and other infection rates) where in that situation and that without using safe sex is was probably just about the MOST dangerous thing I could think of doing in SE Asia and whilst he didn't actually say it and was very nice and none judgemental etc his whole face just screamed " are you fucking CRAZY !!".

So, I took the PEP religiously three times a day for one month and it wasn't overly pleasant but wasn't as bad as some people make out, but was certainly better then the alternative ! and everything was fine but it really was my first wake up call about taking better care of my ow health and not taking such risky chances.

I have to say I do still go to Babylon etc but after a tip from a bar boy who by chance his room mate worked in saunas told me that sometimes as they give out condoms from a huge sack basically sometimes the condoms may be either out of date (and so dry out and break as perhaps happened me) or may be Thai size and sometimes smaller so also more prone to break so I now ONLY take my own ( European) condoms ( which is all I use in Thailand now anyway) and have had no problems since ( touch wood!). I should add that now that I've educated myself a bit better about HIV transmission rates etc the "actual" risk was depending on the guys circumstances ( if he was HIV+) probably lower than I feared at the time, however as one of course can't know that at the time you are absolutely right to warn and remind everyone about the VERY high possibility that exists of infection of "something if not HIV even) in saunas and club dark rooms etc and remining us all to play safe !

[gregvc]

here here! Yes, if the guy was positive and on medication and had low viral load then the chance of picking up hiv would be small. IF! Would you really want your future in the hands of the Thai health and education system? Best to be safe.

[christianpfc]

Christian you MUST surely have done this yourself many times as surely it's only human nature to look at what you're about to eat ! lol The guys ( and myself to I happily admit) would always have a quick look on their way down, no doubt checking for lice, genital warts, nasty discharge or anything else that may leave you with more than memories from your trip lol

A shocking revelation: I don't like cock! I usually prefer a bulge in the underwear. Once a Farang friend pointed to a boy and said "He looks like he has a big cock". Well I was with that boy the day before, but I didn't remember his cock. So I usually do not check out other's cocks.

But back to the subject. It would have been a good idea to do so. In January 2010 (in the middle of my 11 week hibernation in Thailand) I took a closer look at the strange kind of dandruff in my pubic hair that had been there for about a week and didn'd disappear after showering (I though it was just some fluff). Taking in on my fingernail and holding it against the light, I noticed it moved! Pubic Lice!

I was thinking where I might have gotten this, but as is had been on me for over a week, too many boys. So I shaved my pubes and got some shampoo against head lice from a pharmacy. Research on the internet revealed that pubic lice can survive only a day without host, so mechanical removal of lice, shaving of pubic hair and washing clothes should be sufficient. I got rid of them in two days.

I was thinking about calling all boys I had been with during the week, but rejected the idea. As far as I know, transmission of diseases by pubic lice is insignificant; they are easy to detect and easy to get rid off.

Apart from pubic lice (which is a parasite and not a disease), no sexually trasmitted diseases.

[joe552]

you don't like cock? what kind of gay man are you? :dontknow:

[colmx]

you don't like cock? what kind of gay man are you? :dontknow:
I second that question!

thumb up

[joe552]

sorry brithai, I don't understand that comment either. :dontknow:

Brithai was merely signifying his agreement - "thumbs up"

What's the matter with you people?

:hello2:

[joe552]

ah, but he actually typed "thumb up" which might be a sexual activity rather than an affirmation. i know spelling isn't his strongest point (actually I don't know what his strongest point is), but he'll clarify the matter in time.

Would you not concede that whilst Brithai may have missed out an "s" - you just have a dirty, filthy, mind?

:laughing3:

[Impulse]

I ended up topping him
If you're circumsized, then the risk is relatively small, as long as you're topping. If not using much lube, then that would up the risk. I'm not sure I would get pep for that..but better safe than sorry.

Bottoming is the greatest and most dangerous risk.

I ended up topping him If you're circumsized, then the risk is relatively small, as long as you're topping. If not using much lube, then that would up the risk. I'm not sure I would get pep for that..but better safe than sorry. Bottoming is the greatest and most dangerous risk.


In a word ( and not that you're asking:-) but I'm not - and the risks whilst being "relatively small" as you point out are of course "subjective" and are still for many still WAY too much of a risk to take at all, but yes I understand what you're saying and as I said with the benefit of hindsight and after getting myself some proper information later on about actual HIV transmission rates etc, if placed in the same situation again I would have perhaps thought more about going the PEP route, although actually just based on the guy for some reason I think I actually still would ! ( probably not one of my better decisions that night and my dick really did overrule my head, which of course is never a good thing.

However as a previous has already said stated a lot of course depended on the other issues such as guys CD 4 count / viral load etc (and finding out that CORRECT information, even if the guy knew it or not is also a big problem of course usually) plus things as you say like the amount of lube used etc, plus who's doing who and who came in who etc etc, but as we all ( hopefully) know no matter how you weigh the odds up and even after taking all the various factors into account there is always still SOME risk and so it always boils down to nothing more than a crap shoot at the end of the day as to basically whether your luck was in that day or not, whereas the PEP was able to give me an immediate and definite positive (no pun intended) outcome to the matter and if nothing else the month of feeling a bit shitty on PEP was a wake up call as to whether I'd be happy taking exactly those same tablets for the rest of my life if I had of been unfortunate / careless enough to contract HIV that night.

[anonone]

No STI for me (yet... :tongue3: ) and only one minor scare. A Thai I have been friends with got in touch and let me know he had tested positive for Syphilis. It was nearing time for my regular testing, and enough time had past for the test to be accurate, so I went in a bit early and got the whole serious of STI tests. All came back fine for me.

I have to admire the Thai for taking the time to let me know and I thanked him for telling me.

Just out of random curiosity, where does everyone get there testing done? And do you get tested for everything, every time? I had only been regularly getting HIV tests, but this incident made me re-think that a bit.

I have used an outreach / clinic type of set up at a gay sauna as well as governmental health / STI clinics....
The outreach one was great as no cost, though I think I donated a small amount of money.

[christianpfc]

you don't like cock? what kind of gay man are you? :dontknow:

I'm not kidding. I find face, neck, chest, upper arms, thighs, back and butt more interesting than cock.


If you're circumsized, then the risk is relatively small, as long as you're topping.

As far as I know:

There was a study (on heterosexual African men) by a pro-circumcision organisation that showed that circumcision reduces the risk of transferring HIV. There was another study by an anti-circumcision organisation that refuted these findings.

There was a study (on heterosexual African men) by a pro-circumcision organisation that showed that circumcision reduces the risk of transferring HIV. There was another study by an anti-circumcision organisation that refuted these findings.

Just for accuracy you're right Christian that this issue has been batted about for many years but the "final" position ( for now I guess anyway until they change their mind again anyway no doubt) is that undoubtedly circumcision does reduce the risk of HIV transmission.

Which I guess if you're cut is great news, however I'm not and I have to say I'm drawing a line at having a bit of my cock cut off to aid safe sex, hell the things small enough to begin with without them taking any more of it away !! lol

However and just as this is a serious type question / post my source for your info ( although there are many and this is just the first US government one I googled) should you wish to read it is

htttp://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/facts ... cision.htm (htttp://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm)