Pattaya visit

[anonone]

Inspired by a447's excellent on-scene reporting, I am taking a stab at the same. Hopefully I will be updating daily, but no promises....

Arrived 2300 hours from USA. Fast Track pass and no checked luggage meant I was through the process in less than 5 minutes. No long immigration lines at the regular boohs from what I could see.

A stop out front at tha ATM and for a new SIM card, then to Pattaya by 1AM. BF still on his way to Pattaya from Isan, so on my own for the night.

Dropped bag off in the room and headed to BT. WWB had 2 other customers and about 8 bois. A couple cute ones, but seemed rather bored and ready to go home. Beer 180 baht. I did like that WWB dancers were back in briefs instead of jeans.

Hooked up by phone with my friend who dances in show in BT bar. Met up and back to the room for some fun. Awesome body on this guy, lean and smooth. As fun and sweet as ever. A good start.

Not ready for sleep, so went to G-U-Y club on Walking street. good energy and the usual loud music. 3 or 4 customers and 6 bois or so, one very cute. I will be back for him, I hope. Beer 150 baht each, including one for boi A bit of drama at closing time as a falang customer didn't want to pay for drink. I think it was a Russian, not shocking. No idea why this seems to be a recurring problem. :dontknow:

Wandered back by Sunee, but everything closed up. No late night folks out, I guess. Stopped by one of the hamburger stands for a couple beers and chatted with her for awhile. Very quiet. Thought about heading to disco, but I do not like going by myself and was pretty late to get a group together. I always feel this way on he first night....want to keep partying but few options at 5 am.

So, to the room for a little sleep. Bf arriving in the morning, so the pace will pickup.

Tomorrow plan on massage to work out the kinks from a long flight. I will be stopping by Happy Place to drop off a get-well present for Neal. The rest of the time I will just see what happens.

It is very good to be back.

Cheers.

[joe552]

thanks for the report, anonone - hope it's just the start of a great trip. :party

I enjoyed reading your report....i'll be coming back next month...my bf will also be coming down fron isan to meet me at
Suvarnabhumi airport ..were staying first week in bkk ..then 2 weeks in isan...which i love...and last week in pattaya.
hope you have a good time .

[a447]

Thanks anonone. Makes me feel like I'm there again!
Keep up the good work.
Enjoy.

[anonone]

The pace picked up yesterday. It could best be described as a one-man economoc stimulus package for the Pattaya gay scene. :alc:

BF arrived without issue early morning, so major part of the day was spent in the room catching up. Surfaced for air mid-afternoon. He went to see a couple friends and I headed for massage. I think it is called SomJit massage, next to TutKom. I left the choice of masseur to luck of the draw. Much more interested in a good massage then any extra services this time. Very nice looking guy, slender body took me upstairs and stripped down to briefs without delay. :evil4: here we go again.... a pretty good massage and against all odds, I rose to the occasion and had a very happy ending. 2 hour oil massage 500 baht plus 1000 for boy.

BF and I back at he room for an afternoon nap. I woke up and headed out. BF to catch up later. Stopped by YaYa for a drink. I was the only customer. Good to see all the staff again. Drink for me and boy. 170 Baht Total (?) plus tip.

Next to Happy Place to drop off present for Neal. Got there right at 8:30 or so. Already a couple other customers. 20 boys or so, with a nice mix of body types and styles. The normal good energy, playful staff. Beer for me and boy. 150 baht each plus tip for boy. Still running a very nice club Neal, even by remote control.

Next to Splash, where I was hoping to catch up with a friend we made last trip. Shockingly, I can't seem to find him on GR. perhaps the only Pattaya money boy without a profile :sign5: And of course he was not there.
2 or 3 other customers. 10 boys or so, lively on stage. Definately a twink bar, no older or musceled here...which is just he way I like it. Drinks 170 or so (?) plus tip to boy.

BF now awake and primped, we head to Wild West Boys for the first show. Still enjoyable acts. i like they usually have some type of Thai song in the show. Love the dancers when they wear the Thai garb. Drinks 180 (?)

Wow...this is getting lengthy. Time to pare it down. Took a tour of BT gogo bars. Funny Boys / Rose the same as always. Very nice and predictable, but low energy. 180 baht(?) drinks. Vasa bar had 10 boys and no customers. Again, twinks all the way. I love this bar, small place but friendly and beautiful dancers. No idea why this place is not busier??? Drinks 180 baht (?). Met a great boy there while BF chatted with Mamasan foe awhile. Really too bad we were not looking for a friend for the night. :love4:

Headed to Sunee and Crazy Pub. This is our normal late night place. Good prices, pool table, and pretty stable staff roster. 7 or 8 customers at 12:30. Opened a big bottle of whiskey for all our staff friends to enjoy with us, 800 baht includes all mixers. As tends to happens when we open a bottle, friends appear out of thin air. Bottle 3/4 gone by the time all other customers leave. Everyone having a good time, so I offer to spring for a disco trip. The group of 9 of us grab a songtew (150 baht direct) to Dave Man Club. Bottle 1800 baht. Another 500 or so for more ice and mixers during the night. Arrive around 2am. Not quite packed, but very good crowd. The hula hoop dancer from X Boys showed up on stage doing his act. Everyone pretty drunk by 4am, so we head out...plus the bottle was empty.

No idea how much I spent, but more than a typical night for sure. A fun day and just about a perfect way to spend vacation.

[TravellerDave]

Hi Anonone
Thanks for your reports. I'm getting excited about my next trip to Pattaya - only 5 weeks to wait now.
I note that you are rather hyper-active in your first few days visiting gogo's bars and massage. Same for me. Nice to hear of twinky bois - love them !. PM me for more info !.

[martin911]

WOW !!!! that was a very very busy day/nite you had there !!!! --- :notworthy: :notworthy:

Colmx has genuine competition !!! --

My visiting (extended his stay again) ex phil bf was in Dave last nite --he said it was v quite --It def looks like Idol are taking the crowds --Nab/Dave seem quite weekdays -- yet anytime ive gone to Idol while its busy i hardly know any of the crowd in it -- A much older crowd (thai wise ) it seems to attract

i found the same re Idol - went on a friday night to both Nab and Idol - Nab wasn't that busy ( it' was only about midnight though) - the only thing that struck me was just how much of the place is taken by with their stage - if I was the manager the stage would be half the size to allow more room for punters, mind you if there aren't many punters to start with I guess it's a good way of making the place "look" busy, I also thought their lighting ( especially for the cabaret) was surprising poor and they SO need to put a line of reflective tape on the step down up on the stage as I think literally every drag act singer tripped and fell whilst walking down the stage - to much hilarity in the audience in the end (and that wasn't a "staged" thing by the way as one of them nearly broke their ankle!). Also just while I'm mentioning the singers, I don't know what any else thinks and I know it's custom and practice etc but I thought that whole thing of the singer stopping their act to kneel down and take a drink ( and the money) from the audience looked terrible, a) it interferred with their act and if there were several people offering money just made them look like raging alcoholics watching them trying to down five or six whiskeys in 30 seconds so they could get back to the singing - for a glamourous drag queen act it just made them look SO unprofessional ( hmmm downing several whiskeys in quick succession and then standing up and singing - maybe they were a closet Irish Drag act !!? lol)

Re Idol it was certainly busy(ier) when I went on there and I have to say I quite liked it, not as grotty looking as Nab, WAY more boy "dancers" on stage ( I actually counted there around 20 !) and the crowd as Martin has said seemed to be 95% Thai - and it came across as a bit more upmarket and chic than at Nab perhaps, almost more like a bar / club than dance club, there were a lot more women there too I noticed and but whilst everyone was friendly and welcoming there was definitely a vibe that they were there with their friends for a night out and not to mingle with farang and I didn't get that "oh I wonder who I'll meet on the way to the toilets" feeling that I always enjoy in Nab.

It was interesting to that I'd been in several go go bars earlier that night and every guy without exception still said they preferred and would still be going to NAB so I wonder is there going to be gritty club V posher club thing going to end up developing between the two places as I would say that that was certainly apparent to me on my (one) visit?

[colmx]

- Nab wasn't that busy ( it' was only about midnight though) - the only thing that struck me was just how much of the place is taken by with their stage - if I was the manager the stage would be half the size to allow more room for punters,

NAB stage is now taking up probaly only 50% of the space it used to take!
they got rid of it, the downstairs bar and the "coyote corridor" to make more room for customers

From what i could see on my trip last week:
idol has taken the older "hiso" crowd - all you have to do is look at their facebook page to see that the bulk their customers are all in their 30's and certainly not pattaya bar boys.... They have a large number of coyotes... but not as many as dave... Best part of the night there is after 4 when the crusties have gone home and the Toot boys get up and strut their stuff on stage

NAB has taken the greatest hit... Customers down... but still draws a BKK crowd and prob has the best music... have probably less than 10 coyotes working there now... Waiters are very hands off.... if thats what you prefer... and they have the nicest popcorn!

Dave too has taken a hit... despite its relaunch as ""Dave club Evolution" all the 17-20 year olds that used to go there every night are not so prevalent... not sure if this is down to ultra low season, songkran, competition or police crackdown but its numbers are down too... they have 30+ coyotes and the emphasis in dave is def more on brothel than night club... their main purpose is to sell coyotes and coyote drinks...

From my perspective... i just hope they all survive their way through low season!

[anonone]

WOW !!!! that was a very very busy day/nite you had there !!!! --- :notworthy: :notworthy:

Colmx has genuine competition !!! --



No competition, at least from my perspective. He is like a marathon runner compared to my occasional sprints.

Sunee VERY quiet last night. Word on the street was police were around. Walked in Eros and they had one boy working. New Sawasdee Boys not open at all. Nice Boys had 20 staff or so, but all were wearing jeans. Not my idea of proper attire at gogo. Euro Boys had 8 nice boys dancing wih 2 customers while we were there.

BF ran into some friends so I left them chatting for awhile and headed to Krazy Dragon. I normally would have stayed with them but it was so frickin hot that I really wanted to be in air conditioning.

A lot of hands on fun as usual at Krazy Dragon. I had the boys to myself for awhile and took advantage of the opportunity. Once I met the first boy, shook "hands" with him :sign5: , and tipped him, the fun started. A proper greeting line formed and I met all the boys, one at a time. Good fun. (I also met Mark and his partner later, but didn't shake "hands" with them. :sign5: ). Had a couple drinks with a very charming 20 year old from Chang Mai until my BF was ready to head to BT for a show. I had such a good time there, I asked for some more change and had more tip money spread out to all the dancers at KD. I will be back for sure. Most of the staff more masculine then I prefer, but a fun place to spend some time.

BF really wanted to see show at BoyzBoyzBoyz, so I gave up reluctantly and we went. Ladyboys with older backup dancers singing all the dated songs. Crap. But BF was thrilled, so a worthy cause. After the show, their version of gogo dancers took the stage. I swear at least one of them was a grandpa. If that is your thing, it is nice to know BBB has it covered. Hopefully I can avoid this place for another 2 years.

Finished up the night at GUY club again. Fun and energetic, but man they have the music blaring. I like loud music in a gogo, but this was crazy loud.

Random thoughts:

Music festival in full swing. More like open market shopping with some live music thrown in. Strolling down Beach Road with Reagae music playing just felt weird.

Music Lifestyle ( music video channel ) for some reason is playing Christmas songs occasionally. :dontknow:
Anyone know what that's about?

It is hot....really hot. I usually spend more time at host bars, but I am all about the air conditioning this trip.

[joe552]

I usually spend more time at host bars, but I am all about the air conditioning this trip.

ah, a sure sign of advancing years. :occasion9:

stay cool, anonone - we wouldn't want you getting heatstroke. thanks for the report.

[basabajo]

I think anonone must be right about police in the Sunee area. I was in New Sawasdee Boys on Thursday night when suddenly all but two of the boys were shouted off the stage by a mamasan. About 8 to 10 very young boys raced to the back of the bar and disappeared. Left on the stage was just two boys. I sat with one who told me that he is 19, the other 21. Presumably all the others were under-age. The boys started to re-emerge about 30 minutes later. Sad to hear from anonone that the place was closed completely the following day, as I didn't see any police enter the premises the previous night.

[a447]

Basabajo wrote:
Presumably all the others were under-age.


but then he wrote:
Sad to hear from anonone that the place was closed completely the following day

???

[francois]

Presumably all the others were under-age. .

Not necessarily a valid presumption. I have been in bars when there was a "police alert" and most of the boys disappeared but I know many were not under-age. Perhaps lacked ID; were using drugs; not Thai residents; etc. What did remain on stage were semi-clothed coyote boys who were in their 20s.

[basabajo]

Yes, good point francois - there could be other reasons. In this case my presumption was really because one of the two boys who remained, who sat with me, said that the reason just he (19) and his friend (21) were left on stage is because the rest are under-age (though I didn't express it that way in my original post). But who knows anyway - the place seemed to be fully open tonight!

[lexusgs]

Idol defo seems to be getting busy. Martin, not sure what you mean by older crowd there mate...lol None of em seem to be over 25! Is that old?
Ws there the night before and after Songkran and I reckon they must gave shipped in a few hotties from somewhere cos the coyote guys were
smoking hot ...lol . Whisky on both night started at 1500 bht . Yet they came back at 2 am saying it was happy hour. So 1500 for 2 again. A few bottles
were downed and party time afterwards. :party Did slip over to NAB for a drink mid way was defo pretty quiet. Strange how the Thais are so fickle with places....
Waited for the foam party on night before Songkran but never came. Maybe I was just too pissed to see it :bounce:

[joe552]

I really don't know how you guys do it, going till 5 or 6 in the morning. :notworthy:

[anonone]

Settling into more of a sustainable pace now that he first couple crazy days are over. Some extra time, mostly in the (air conditioned) room, just being with BF. These short trips are a killer. I am barely getting settled in and already realizing I will be leaving him soon.

BF catching up with some Pattaya friends after being in Isan for a month meant more solo time late afternoon / early evening. Started with another massage at SomJit. Just when I think I am totally spent and in for just a massage, I am proven wrong. Different masseur this time but same end result. I swear these guys can get a rise out of anyone.

Another fun hour or so at Krazy Dragon. Drinks at 120 baht. I bought a drink for every dancer in the place that showed up for the early shift. Late arrivals missed out. Anything to help Mark incentivize on time arrivals. :sign5:
A great group of guys, sexy and engaging, sanuk mak mak. Anyone that says they cannot find masculine guys in Sunee have obviously overlooked KD. Now if I could only find a twink bar that is as much fun as KD.... :tongue3:

BF and I took in the early show at Happy Place. I haven't seen their show for a long time and was a good visit. They do a nice job while being a bit hampered by a pretty small stage. it will be nice to once again say Hi to Da Boss on the way into the bar....keep on recuperating Neal.

Big story of the night was X-Boys. While at the beach, we got a flyer about a B-boy contest being held tonight. As I mentioned earlier, the BF prefers the manly guys, and I guess this includes B-boy dancers as he was keen for a visit. The bar was absolutely PACKED. Serious standing room only. Drinks were a whooping 200 baht for a can (yes, a can) of beer. 6 teams of dancers competing for 8000 Baht first prize. Some decent cash amounts for second and third place also. Votes were made by customers by way of roses at 50 baht each.

I was mentally tying to figure out a way to convince BF an early exit was a good idea. Then there was a break in the B-Boy action and I found my reason for staying, and even ordering more drinks.....

I have no idea what types of details are permissible in posting here, so I will err on the side of caution. Started with individual appearances by about 10 BIG guys, then they all paraded around together for a bit. They were not shy at all. Then 2 performers got the ACTION really started, including audience visits. I had a weird sensation of being in Bangkok. As I never really go to Bangkok anymore, this was a treat. I had forgotten how much fun it could be. After another round of 6 B-Boy routines, more BIG Parade. Then 2 different ACTION stars appeared. All told, the night ended with a big check bin, but much cheaper than a trip to the big city.

I have to mention that directly across the stage from us sat a very ugly, middle-aged ladyboy...who apparently came with her grandmother. Quite a pair to watch as the evening festivities progressed. The LB was trying for a look of bewilderment mixed with a little disgust. Great-Grandma didn't change her facial expression the entire night, but her eyes were GLUED to every performer and every bit of action. Good for her. I hope I am still having this kind of fun when I am also 100 years old.

A final random thought. Is there anything more delicious for breakfast then kao niuw muu ping? (grilled pork with sticky rice). I am seriously addicted.

[a447]

Great reporting anonone! But please do drop into that karaoke place (Lover Boys) and let us know what they guys are like! I'm always looking for something new to try.


Is there anything more delicious for breakfast then kao niuw muu ping?

Yes, there is! Larb moo. It'll knock your socks off and wake you up for the day.

[Neal]

A447 and others. There is another thread here near the top on Lover Boys.

[aussie_]

:party
Now if I could only find a twink bar that is as much fun as KD.... :tongue3:

You could try Happy Boys on Soi Yensabai. They had fifteen twink type boys there last Thursday night, you can have a lot of fun downstairs and even more upstairs. Use the room with the big overhead fan or you will really feel the heat.

In Pattayaland Vassa Boys is a fun place with some very cute boys dancing full on till the bar closes. Lucky Seven has some of the best looking twink types in their go go bar at present but not the hands on fun you might have at Happy Boys or Krazy Dragon. Happy Place has a couple of the most fun and nicest guys you could meet with the slim, twink build.

I went into Eros Bar in Sunee last night and it was empty at 1130pm. All the staff were sitting outside, I will try another night. Sunee was dead so I went back to the Music Festival. The heat was stifling but worth it for the eye candy along Beach Road and at the stages. The heat did not stop the Crazy Pub boys I was with and they headed off to NAB at 2.30 am. Enough for me, back to the room for a cool shower.

[joe552]

thanks aussie - Happy Boys sounds right up my street (or soi, if you prefer).

had fifteen twink type boys there last Thursday night, you can have a lot of fun downstairs and even more upstairs.


thanks aussie - Happy Boys sounds right up my street (or soi, if you prefer).

I'm disgusted ! The intellectual level on this board is getting ridiculous ! lol ( actually now that I think about it I think it's always been just about this level and that suits me just fine lol :-)

And to THINK that some people called ME a slut huh, I am obviously just a mere amateur compared to the rest of you degenerates !! lol ;-)




* and before anyone points it out yes I know I've deleted the word "they" had 15 boys from the original post .....relax, it's a wee joke, no need to report me to the moderator or anything :-)

[joe552]

believe me, it was pure jealousy on my part :notworthy:

[colmx]

In Pattayaland Vassa Boys is a fun place with some very cute boys dancing full on till the bar closes. Lucky Seven has some of the best looking twink types in their go go bar at present but not the hands on fun you might have at Happy Boys or Krazy Dragon.

Gotta agree with you there!
I offed 3 diff guys from Lucky7 on last trip... and still have at least 2 on my shortlist for the next trip
Well done Louis and Jojo on gathering such a great looking bunch of guys (and from what i can see all are gay too)

[anonone]

OK. Strong recomendations from both of you for Lucky7. I do not think I have ever been in there before. I will make every effort to drop by there tonight. Wonder what kind of mood the BF will be in tonight? :evil4:

[colmx]

Haha it will probably be awful tonight after 2 recommendations... after all This-Is-Thailand!!

[anonone]

555.
I did stop in for a quick drink. 2 VERY cute boys spotted right away, but some others not quite my cup o tea.
I still think Splash and Vassa have an overall better staff, but as wisely mentioned above, this is Thailand, so nothing set in stone.

[anonone]

Just a quick update for now, as I will be leaving soon and want to take full advantage of my remaining fun time.

A group of 4 of us tried to go to Idol last night, but it was closed. So ended up at NAB. Pretty good crowd, did seem like an older age range overall compared to the earlier visit to Dave Man. One of the 4 was a new friend and was great fun, both at NAB and later. Also managed to get everyone the right amount of alcohol this time. Everyone happy and no meltdowns. :sign5:

Tried the larb muu, and was OK. I like gra praw a bit better. Neither is better than muu ping, though.

Music channel on TV still showing occasional Christmas songs. Don't get this at all. :dontknow:

I will try to post a final review once I get some time after leaving....assuming I can remember anything. :alc:

No place better than Thailand. Every trip just confirms it.

Cheers.

Almost forgot to mention how good to see Neal back at his post, even so briefly.

[SlaveDriver]

Thanks Buddy for your inputs. Very professional and well laid out. It helps future travellers like us.

Your trip was very short tho'

Good luck :party

[gregvc]

probably me, but my memories of Pattaya lead me to think that the scene was much livelier 5 or so years ago. Sunee is hemmed in by ever encroaching middle east visitors and Boystown is mostly a few drinkers looking at each other. My BF (of 14 yrs, well hardly a boy at 48 yrs, I found him when I taught English at his factory and by that I mean HIS factory) and I had a good time at Sansuk Sauna and we always love L'Olivier restaurant (such a value meal). But not having been to Pattaya for 4 years, I was stunned by The Russian invasion. The Thais certainly do not think much of them and their manners. I was impressed by Central Festival shopping centre. The supermarket puts most of the world to shame. On the downside, the overbuilding and resulting car squash really increases stress levels. I guess I have rose coloured glasses about the late 90's and early 2000s, and perhaps the Russians will find out that condo prices are inflated and take their holidays in the Crimean.

...I was impressed by Central Festival shopping centre. The supermarket puts most of the world to shame....

Absolutely - the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, the Colosseum in Rome, the Great Wall of China, the Christ the Redeemer statue in Rio, even the Taj Mahal - are (or were) all nothing compared to a Pattaya supermarket.

:evil4:

[a447]

Scottish-Guy wrote:
Absolutely - the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, the Colosseum in Rome, the Great Wall of China, the Christ the Redeemer statue in Rio, even the Taj Mahal - are (or were) all nothing compared to a Pattaya supermarket.

I think you may have misunderstood the post. I got the impression he was comparing supermarkets, not overall attractions.

If he was indeed comparing supermarkets, I'd have to say I agree with him. It is world class and reminds me of the Gourmet market at Siam Paragon.

Oh, let me assure you I didn't misunderstand it at all a447 (see the "evil" smiley at the end?) - can't we have a little kick at the ball when somebody leaves the goal wide open?

And just to prove there's no Annie Mossity - let me say in all candour that I look forward to reading that upcoming publication "Great Supermarkets of the World" by Gregvc & A447 - featuring photography by Beachlover.

:glasses7:

You're way behind the times Scot's as your publication is SO last year! - the new one that everyone's clamering for now is "Deli's to die for" by Beachy - apparently it's unbelievable ! :-)

I hesitate to pay top dollar for Beachlover's new book - so I'll wait till it hits the charity shops (should be about a fortnight).

But, tell me, is there any food in Beachy's deli photos or just empty plates in case anybody identifies him by the bite mark in a bagel?

:occasion9:

[joe552]

ah, Beachie, gone but not forgotten :love4:

[Neal]

Don't fret Joe, he is right here amongst us just under a different username. :evil4:

[anonone]

Left for the airport at 3AM after a last shot of fun in the LOS. All travel went fine and now back at home in the USA. I have the usual, post Thailand depression that I bet many are familiar with.
Back to work and the daily grind. :angryfire:

As I thought would happen, the details of the last day are pretty foggy. Too much drink, travel, and time have occurred to recall all the happenings on that last day. One item does stand out though...

BF and I spent about an hour hanging out with some of his friends and former neighbors at the building in which he used to have a room in Pattaya. One of his friends birthday, so there was a smallish "party" in the works. There was an easy, neighborhood vibe that was very nice. Table full of assorted Thai food from which everyone grazed, drinks from the local store, a real mix of generations and families, with everyone chatting and having fun. I really liked watching this communal / cultural mix. It helps me to understand the "sharing of the rice bowl" kind of thing. Or, as the BF puts it more bluntly, when a Thai boy gets a customer, everyone eats.

We hit some of the bars, but as typical for my last night, it was mainly about being with each other and trying not to dwell on the fact that I was leaving again. We have known each other for 2 years now, which is astonishing to me.

I need to get caught up on work stuff, but I may post some final thoughts this weekend. For now, another great trip completed & I really need to figure out a way to spend more time in Thailand.

....my last night, it was mainly about being with each other and trying not to dwell on the fact that I was leaving again. We have known each other for 2 years now, which is astonishing to me..... I really need to figure out a way to spend more time in Thailand.

I can empathise with every word of that, and I hope you do figure it out.

In my attempts to spend more time in Thailand, I thought I had a deal going with the Euromillions lottery - but the bastards seem to continuously renege on it!!

:occasion9:

In my attempts to spend more time in Thailand, I thought I had a deal going with the Euromillions lottery - but the bastards seem to continuously renege on it!!

I too had the same deal Scots and sent Camelot a shitty email proclaiming my annoyance at their lack of paying out, however they sent me back an equally shitty reply saying something about it being a two way street and how about i buy a ticket or two just for a start !! - damn them they ALWAYS seem to have SOME reason for not paying out ! :-(

Oh and welcome back Anon - I sympathize with the whole just being home depression thing - if it's any consolation it doesn't get any better as the months go on but hey at least you have the internet so you can keep in touch with your boy wonder until the next trip ( which I've no doubt you've already started planning ! lol )

[a447]

anonone wrote:
Or, as the BF puts it more bluntly, when a Thai boy gets a customer, everyone eats.

I admire his honesty - and yours for posting it.

[paperboy]

well ive only got 2 more weeks to go, until i arrive for my 30 days of fun
your getting sad and missing thailand
and im getting excitted and looking foward to it :party

[anonone]

Some final thoughts. But fair warning, this post is not about the parties and the bars.....

First, thank you for all the kind words. For those with imminent visits (paperboy, bluechris, et al), have a great time. Hopefully my musings have helped whet the appetite for the fun you are about to have. In addition to helping others, I have just looked back at the thread and it has helped me remember some great times during this visit. I am happy I took the time to chronicle the events.

My visits have changed quite a bit over the last 2 years. When preparing for my first trip, I read all the forums and advice. I swore I would never have a Thai BF. I would butterfly around and just enjoy. Wow...talk about not following the plan. And I couldn't be happier about it.

After a couple of pure butterfly visits, I met the future BF. We have grown closer over the past couple of years in a gradual, comfortable way. Now, I am in love with him. Shit, how did that happen. :sign5: Neither of us is perfect, but somehow together, we just work. While there is a large part of me that remains cynical and cautious, I haven't felt this good...ever. I am going to ride the wave and see what happens, but always try to keep my eyes open.

I love just being with BF and seeing everyday life. I have hung out in a boy's room in Pattaya while everyone eats, primps, and gets ready for the nights "work". I have seen acts of kindness between the boys and am starting to get some insight into that community I had never noticed before. I have met so many great Thai guys and love hearing their stories, opinions and how they view life. It also goes a long way helping to understand the BF and what is important to him. I continue to study and learn more Thai, which opens up even more opportunities to learn more from all my new friends.

I also have a really great time outside of the bars and sex scene. I have visited the family in Isaan and saw a much different side of Thailand. Local clubs and shops, a slower pace of life. Farms and fun, drunks and fights, lazy days that turn to boredom. Each new experience brings me a greater appreciation and affection for this country.

Every trip I learn more about Thailand, the culture, and occasionally get brief glimpses into things my former butterfly self would never see. Not all of it is flattering; There is certainly a darker side. While some may not care, this type of stuff is fascinating to me and probably not appropriate for a public forum. The beautiful Thai smile can certainly mask quite a bit. None of this would have been possible if not for the BF and his trust in me.

While the gay/sex scene is great (and I enjoy wholeheartedly), I am very appreciative of the total Thai experience. Which leads me to the point of all this rambling. This is probably a classic, mid-life "crisis" type of thing, but instead of going out and buying a convertible sports car, my mind is increasingly mulling over the thought of moving to Thailand. I can't be the only one that is exploring the allure of what Thailand has on offer.

I have more trips to Thailand arranged for later this year. I plan on using my time at home to research and come up with any sane plan to spend more of my time with the BF in this intriguing area of the world. Like Scotty and NIrishGuy, I keep trying the lottery route, but the bastards are not being very cooperative. I have taken a casual look at most of the well known routes. Buying a bar, becoming an English teacher, having a flexible "work" location, etc. It is now time for a more serious evaluation. It has to be the right plan. I am not going to throw away financial security and future happiness on a whim, but in some way this has to be doable. I would really like to do this before I reach retirement age. 25 years is too long to wait.

If anyone would like to share any information on their experiences giving this a shot, please don't hesitate to post....or PM if more comfortable for you.

Thanks for reading and cheers to all.

[joe552]

what a great post, anonone. thanks for taking the time. best of luck for your future wherever it brings you

Likewise anonone - a cracking post !

If truth were told I know that I'm at almost exactly the same point in life, as you say call it a mid life crisis or perhaps just reaching that point in life where you go "is this IT" and like you I go and I butterfly all over the place when I'm there but each time I go I end up staying with one guy more and more ( perhaps with a few comfort breaks along the way though :-) and definitely enjoy that more.

But also like you have seen and heard enough from my Thai friends to know that it's not all milk and honey and there is indeed a darker side to what we all perhaps first perceive when we get there full of the joys of spring, however on the other hand even on knowing that there's still something attractive about it all and I know that I'm generally always happier there than here and I know that I always feel more content and fulfilled as a person somehow when there, but always step back each time and slap myself and remind myself that that IS just most likely because I AM on holiday with all the pleasures that that brings and living a daily life there may be a VERY different thing.

However as I get (slightly) older and each day goes by I do find myself questioning "what the hell am I doing here, when a lot of what I enjoy is over there" and like yourself find myself weighing up the odds of staying or going on an all too regular basis. However I've also got so cynical on my trips after seeing and hearing some of the things I have that I've got to the stage of just about not trusting ANYTHING a Thai guy says to me in terms of love or their feelings and can't quite work out whether that is a very sad stage in life to have reached OR perhaps is exactly the PROPER way I should be going into any romantic situation in Thailand - with my eyes wide open and never falling for the sweet words cast upon me - on the other hand what a shitty way to live it would be NEVER to trust or believe the guy you're with and I guess I'm waiting for a the somewhere in the middle situation to crop up and hit me up the face, whilst also realising that as I'm getting older that either that just may not happen and I end up living alone here in the UK or worse still what I'm looking for is perhaps actually happening RIGHT NOW in my life with various guys I've been with and simply I'm letting those opportunities slip through my fingers because of my own cynicism and mistrust perhaps.

So, it sounds like you're somewhere along that path also - but unlike me are actually taking life by the balls and "getting on with it" which I absolutely applaud you for because as we all know this isn't a dress rehearsal and life is short ! So I wish you all the very best on your adventure and look forward to reading it's continuing story as your relationship and love ( or whatever it is we have our Thai BF's or that they have with us as I'm still not quite so sure about all of that ) develops.

Maybe someday if you're in the mood you'd post about some of that darker stuff that you mentioned (if it's not terribly private of course) as we all talk on here about the lighter side of Thai life but never really touch on the other end of things as that perhaps might give some of us a better handle of what DOES actually go on in a Thai guys head behind that lovely smile and the sweet words they say to us?

I know I have several stories about things that I don't talk about on here involving situations with Thai guys involving perhaps illegal substances or them perhaps setting up farang etc, whilst letting them THINK they were actually helping them when in fact it was them that had set the guy up in the first place etc and also other things like setting farang up for VERY serious assaults involving guns etc, which sort of opened my eyes a bit to the other darker side of those peoples lives and what REALLY goes on behind the scenes with them ( albeit I accept this is a VERY VERY limited section of society and in the past I've probably mixed in some fairly dodgy circles in Bkk perhaps!) but generally I've never spoken on here about that or any of the other stuff I've heard or been told about as it seemed somehow to go against the light hearted, fun posts we all generally post and always thought that perhaps maybe it would just not be appropriate - but on the other hand it is "something" to do with one aspect of life in Thailand I guess so maybe it's is just as relevant on here so others get a true picture of things and not just the rose tinted glasses one we get whilst on holiday , I don't know?

Anyway, the very best of luck with your BF ( and I really mean that ) and I look forward to reading about it all as things develop between you both if you'll allow us of course.

[vnman]

Anonone: I also wish you luck with your BF. I don't have to tell you the dangers that are involved with falling in love with a (in this case) Thai boy. On the other hand, knowing those dangers can be a disadvantage too. It definitely influences your behavior towards him and not in a positive way, which of course isn't the best thing for a relationship. A few examples would be; questioning the validity of his words, constantly analyzing his behavior, overall just looking for proof that warrants your jadedness. That's the opposite of falling blindly in love, which of course isn't the best way to go about it either.

if I understand it correctly, you want to get your butt over to Thailand to stay there permanently. I know from experience that it's hard (many fields) to make a decent living there, if you aren't on an expat salary. In other words, A foreign company has sent you there to work. Getting hired in Thailand usually doesn't give you a salary that has any future worth. Of course, this is very much depended on your skills.

However, there might be an in between step that you could take and live in a country nearer to Thailand. There are plenty of countries where you can make a pretty decent living, save some for older age, and be close enough to make regular visits to LOS. Again, all depended on your skill set.


still something attractive about it all and I know that I'm generally always happier there than here and I know that I always feel more content and fulfilled as a person somehow when there, but always step back each time and slap myself and remind myself that that IS just most likely because I AM on holiday ...

That slap in your face may be the best thing you can give yourself. But you might be in a situation to put it to the test. It's the story of the little boy who got caught smoking. His parents made him smoke the whole pack and the little boy never wanted to smoke again. I would still suggest a sabbatical and see how it makes you feel.

I personally had enough after a couple of years, only to regret ever leaving now. I guess only the good memories have stuck and the darker ones faded. O well, I have my sights set on South America now and It wont be long 2 - 3 years for this adventure to take place.

[anonone]

Wow.
Thanks for the great posts (and PMs). I appreciate everyone's advice and good wishes. It is heartening to know there are others with similar thoughts and experiences.

There seems to be 2 major themes:

1) Having a Thai BF and all the issues that entails
2) Moving to Thailand and all the issues that entails

NIrish: I understand exactly where you are coming from regarding opening yourself up for the possibility of a relationship. I was exactly the same way when I first started coming to Thailand. No one was going to get one over on me, keep it simple, take him for the night and be done, don't get hurt, Party Party Party etc. For some, that might be enough. After a couple of trips in that mode, I met the future BF and began to slowly realize there was more. It is scary. I am now very exposed to get hurt. But it has also given me great pleasure, experiences, and I wouldn't have it any other way. If you are at the point personally where it is possible to open up, and importantly, have met the right person to be your partner, then I encourage you to give it a try. If you are not ready yet, don't rush it as it will not end well...but be open to it happening.

In general: I think sometimes in BF issues we get too tied up in the "Thai-ness" of it. There are a lot of same issues for a relationship regardless if the partner is Thai. I have been hurt in the past with a non-Thai and I am scared of getting emotionally hurt again. Guess what? So is he. The BF has had his heart broken by a falang making promises etc, so he has just as much reason to be wary as I do. Anyone that has been in relationships has baggage. It is all about the chemistry and how you both get along as a couple now. These are the same issues I would have in a relationship here at home.

I have no idea if this is a life-long relationship in the making, or if something will happen and we will go our separate ways. Perhaps we are lucky and both of us are willing to take the risk and do the work to make this last. There are all sorts of trite sayings to rely upon (better to have loved and lost....etc), but the bottom line is I am happier with him than without him. For now, that is more than enough.

vnman: You bring up two excellent thoughts. The first is the whole idea of knowing the dangers of a Thai relationship can actually ruin the chances of it working. When the BF and I first become a couple, I fell into this trap. I was trying the "trust buy verify" scheme...and it doesn't work. When we are apart, I have no way of knowing what he is doing in any reliable manner. Hell, even when I am in Thailand we go our separate ways at times. After some soul-searching, I came to realize this was not a relationship....it was an attempt at ownership. In trying to insulate myself against any possible hurt, I was poisoning the relationship I was trying to protect. We are now much more open with each other, we understand what is important to each of us, and for us, it works. I do not want to paint too rosey of a picture. There are still bumps in the road and I still am keeping my eyes wide open, but I feel we have turned a corner and the rewards now greatly outweigh the risks.

Second. Thank you for the idea of re-locating to a country closer to Thailand, instead of looking solely at Thailand itself. I would greatly prefer to find something in Thailand as I really love the entire environment...not just because the BF is there. But a near-by country is certainly preferable to staying here in the US if Thailand is not possible. This would be especially true if it was a country easy for the BF to visit. I will look more into this.

vnman: If I read your post correctly, you were in Thailand for awhile and have since left. I am curious as to how you came to reside in Thailand and what were the factors in you deciding to leave. Are you willing to share a bit more about this?

There apparently is a group of us in this boat. Not retirement age with all of those particular issues, but young(er) gay men that enjoy Thailand (either with our without a Thai BF) and want to spend more time there. Hopefully we all make progress to reach our particular goals. I am deliberately going slow in this quest. I still have family ties here in the US, along with property, etc. that makes just up and moving a daunting consideration. This is not something I perceive happening next month...more like in the next couple of years.

Thanks again for all the thoughtful posts...keep em coming.

[christianpfc]

There apparently is a group of us in this boat. Not retirement age with all of those particular issues, but young(er) gay men that enjoy Thailand (either with our without a Thai BF) and want to spend more time there.
Absolutely. You can count me in. I have been searching for jobs in my profession in Thailand for a while on the internet, there is a weak chance I might find something.

[francois]

This is probably a classic, mid-life "crisis" type of thing, but instead of going out and buying a convertible sports car, my mind is increasingly mulling over the thought of moving to Thailand. I can't be the only one that is exploring the allure of what Thailand has on offer.

I would really like to do this before I reach retirement age. 25 years is too long to wait.



25 year to wait for retirement? Just how young are you?

For me it is not a mid-life crisis but more an end-of-life crisis. I am a regular visitor with a long term bf and finally deciding now is the time to make Thailand my home. I prefer the devil's playground on earth with all the fallen angels than a heavenly before I pass on to the great unknown.

[joe552]

i believe, francois, that anonone mentioned earlier that he is in his 40s - so midlife it is. it's surely a bigger challenge for younger guys to make it compared to those who can retire there? I know I won't meet the 800,000bt level for a retirement visa but for me there are other options. for someone like anonone or NI Guy, making the move while they still have to earn a living is much more of a challenge. I commend them for at least thinking about it.

[vnman]

vnman: If I read your post correctly, you were in Thailand for awhile and have since left. I am curious as to how you came to reside in Thailand and what were the factors in you deciding to leave. Are you willing to share a bit more about this?

Hey anonone, I wanted to take some time to think about your question. Like I said before, It's easy to remember the good times. But I don't think it would make much sense to list the things that I didn't like about my life in Thailand because those are the things that I'm missing right now.

Money surely was a factor. I didn't work and got an offer to come and work in Vietnam. Thailand wasn't my first stop since I left my country and Vietnam won't be the last. I'm sure there will be things bothering me in any country I will stay in the future. The grass will always be greener...

I really think that there is a difference between us. You clearly choose Thailand as country you would like to live in, I accidentally came and didn't leave for a couple of years. That's basically the story of all the countries I've been to, accept Vietnam and the one that I have planned in the near (2 - 3 years) future, Colombia.

I'm not sure if this post has been of any help. I'm still fighting off a virus and can't really get my thoughts straight. I do want to tell you that you seem to approach it the right way. I've seen too many people come to Thailand, fall in love, and just leave everything behind in their home countries. Some of them really got destroyed. You don't even have to know people personally. There are stories enough of people who did very stupid things just so they could extend their stay in LOS. Probably many positive stories out there as well, but I don't know any that are based on impulsive decisions.

[anonone]

francois - I am in my early 40s. Typical retirement age in the US is 65. One of the options I had been trying is to sock as much money into savings and retirement funds as possible and simply retire early and move to Thailand. Of course, I miss Thailand too much to stay away in the meanwhile, so I spend a lot of money on travel. :tongue3: Not an easy plan to keep up with.

Christian - good luck with the job hunt. It is daunting. I have one pretty solid lead at the moment. It took some time before I tracked down this one possibility.

vnman - if you are willing to write a bit about what you disliked at the time but now miss, I think that would be very beneficial and interesting. One of my (many) concerns is the reality of living in Thailand will not meet my expectations. Without the means to spend some extended time visiting, it is difficult to know this with any certainty.

There are success stories, many of which have been shared via PM. These give me hope and I am very happy for those that have found happiness with their Thai partner.

[vnman]

Firstly, let me say that my world view was totally different a decade ago. I don't know what I was looking for exactly but I do know that Thailand, in specific Pattaya, couldn't give me what I subconsciously was looking for. I found that everything and everybody surrounding me was fake. There might have been some real things staring me in the face but I couldn't see the difference anymore. I felt that I didn't belong and that there was a clear "US and THEM" atmosphere, something that I might have created myself. I don't know.

Clubs, and going out in general, started to bore me to dead. The same horrible Chinese hardcore break beat crap that only got interrupted by even more irritating shows. It was also a time when clubs had to close their doors early and the only options for an allnighter were mixed venues and/or karaoke. God I hate Karaoke!

Not doing anything didn't make things easier. I didn't have something to put my teeth in, other than the boys. A very interesting and acceptable proposition if you would ask me now.

Here in Vietnam I came in to a totally different world. God, these people can lie and cheat better than any Thai could ever do. Getting caught lying isn't even a big deal. "I lied, so what?" We all do, seems to be the altitude. But here, I had a purpose and felt way more accepted. There's no looking down on foreigners and if anything, I might say it's the opposite. But night life is horrible, I would gladly trade back to those boring nights in Pattaya of the past.

Thailand, and again I'm referring to Pattaya, has changed a lot from the night life perspective. The music has changed, but more importantly closing times of clubs. I guess we can never get those damn shows eliminated.

Most importantly, I have changed. I'm not interested in anything else than casual acquaintances. I've learned to get the maximum out of those experiences. Back then, I might have been looking for love, definitely in the wrong places. I'm not looking for that anymore. I have changed my favorite Thai location to BKK because of the clubs and city life. I'm looking for fun and I prefer/demand to pay for it.

In conclusion, I'd like to say that these were my experiences and some might say they find them shallow, or me for that matter. But that really wouldn't bother me, because these were the things that I found and now find important and gives me a sense of well being. For you to decide if you would consider that to be happiness.

PS I know that there are many that have totally different experiences than mine. I would say; good for you! I'm happy things are working out for you. I guess it takes two to tango, especially when it comes to living with a person with such different cultural values. I don't have the patience nor the will to adjust my lifestyle in such a way to accommodate a relationship of that kind. I refuse to lie to others, but more importantly to myself.

[anonone]

vnman. Thanks for your post. It does help clarify your feelings about Thailand and what you experienced.

I hope you find the environment that makes you happy. Everyone is different and it is one of the keys of happiness to be able to know yourself and what works for you. Relationships are not for everyone, especially a cross-cultural affair.

After being hurt in a relationship, I wanted nothing more than to be the party butterfly and stay out of any entanglements. After a brief (but valiant) try at this lifestyle, I had to be honest with myself and admit I was not happy. I find happiness in the intimate sharing of life with someone. It just makes us different.

I find it very interesting your comments about having a purpose and the impact of that on happiness. It sounds like you do not enjoy the culture and lifestyle of Vietnam very much, but find it much more tolerable because you are working now. I wonder if that is why so many falang in Thailand end up buying a bar, to give them a purpose and something to do every day....

[vnman]

It's like they say anonone: "don't bite the hand that feeds you." But your assessment about my feelings for Vietnam is spot on.

Yes, it's often boring out here, but Vietnam doesn't have to offer me all that craziness. I can find that a short plane or even bus ride away. Last year I bought 2 round trip tickets to MNL for 125 usd each. I bought tickets to BKK for less than 100 USD. It's 12 USD to Phnom Penh and back. That's the reason I live here and not in Europe. As long as I'm close to the action and I can make some decent money, I'm OK.

But of course, I don't have a BF in any of these countries.

[bucknaway]

I was just watching the Cooking Channel show "Food Detectives" and they found that certain foods alter your body odor and the sniffer was able to tell which sweaty people consumed curry over the week and who ate garlic over the week but none of the smelly people consumed curry or garlic on the day of the test.

Being that Thai's so a good amount of sniffing of their friends it is possible that they can detect sour dairy being sweated out of your pores.

That result made me do a google search on if dairy can make you smell and this is what I found.

http://search.zonealarm.com/search?Source=ToolBar&oemCode=ZLN20706794001563-1001&toolbarId=base&affiliateId=1600&Lan=en&utid=ac41e21400000000000000247e60a96f&q=can+dairy+make+you+smell%3F

[Neal]

Bucknaway my love, what does this have to do with Pattaya visit? Opening a new thread.