Longer term in Chiang Mai

[ceejay]

I am (perhaps) going to be making a long term visit to Thailand, the 5 months from November to March. I should be able to get an O multiple entry visa. One of the places I am considering is Chiang Mai. My main aim whilst there (apart from getting away from the English winter) would be to learn at least some basic Thai. I'd expect to be putting in 3 days a week for 10 or 12 weeks on that. I have a few questions and I'd appreciate some input from people who know Chiang Mai to help me decide if it's worth going any further down this line of planning.
Accommodation. I'd rather not go down the serviced apartment/hotel route. If I booked into a hotel for a week or two what would be my chances of finding a privately let apartment for 12-14 weeks? I have to admit, one problem would be that I wouldn't know how to go about looking for one.
Language teaching. I'd possibly prefer private lessons for the flexibility, especially as I would have to leave the country and re-enter somewhere around the 90 day mark. I'd probably spend a week or so away - maybe in Luang Prabang. How much would a private teacher cost? Again, I wouldn't know how to go about finding one (and also wouldn't know how to tell the difference between a good one and a bad one)
Any input or comments would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[morse]

I have been a regular traveler to Chiangmai for the past ten years and have most often stayed at the Amora Tapae Hotel by Tapae Gate. I am usually there at the most for a week or ten days and prefer their location. I have stayed at various other hotels and PJ's guesthouse as well. I like being near the old city and within walking distance of most of the things that interest me. PJ's is nice, but out of the way for my interests. There are numerous places to stay in the old city. I believe any of the places (the Amora included) will work with you on extended stay pricing if they have space. I book at one of the online hotel websites for the Amora.
I am also a regular visitor to Luang Prabang. A great place though much more visited in recent years (and with the new airport soon to open-who knows.) As with Chiangmai there are is a multitide of guesthouses to choose from. You will have less of an opportunity to rent a serviced apartment in LP and accomodations are not the same great value they are in CM.
I have not sought out language courses at either location, but there are lots of notices around CM offering language instruction.

[BonTong]

Chiang Mai is a great place for a long term stay at that time of year. Fabulous weather, except for March when it gets hot with high levels of air pollution. If you are flexible you might consider October-February as a better option. It still rains a bit in October but it's not too bad, preferable to heat and smog IMHO.

Luang Prabang is an easy hop from Chiang Mai with daily flights by Lao Airlines, or, if you have time take the scenic route by boat down the Mekong.

Plenty of choices for learning Thai Language, whether school or private teacher. There are some private schools and also schools attached to some of the universities. The YMCA is also popular - just Google - you'll be spoilt for choice. I know at least one private teacher.

Finding a private apartment shouldn't be too hard, it's just a case of looking. I'd search around on the internet and have a plan before arriving though. Many landlords want to rent for a year, but everything is negotiable. Maybe try Thai Visa Classifieds. Not sure quite what benefit you see over a serviced apartment though. There are so many great serviced apartments in Chiang Mai and you'll get much the same as renting privately but without the hassle.

An important consideration is what area you want to stay. The better choices for apartments are around the Chang Puek, Huay Kaew, Nimmanheminda areas. Not so much around Thapae and the Night Bazaar where it's more hotels and guest houses. That area is fine for a few days but after several months you'll likely be fed up with the in your face tourist stuff and tourists everywhere.

[Khor tose]

Several unserviced studio are month to month rent and are located at Hillside 4 on Huey kaew. There are serviced apartments available, but few or none that I know of in really good locations. The three web sites at the bottom of Bontong's reply are by far the best source of information about gay Chiang Mai.

[kjun12]

Ceejay, why don't you check out a listing like this: http://chiangmai.thaiapartments.net/ind ... os=2&ord=1 (http://chiangmai.thaiapartments.net/index.php?os=apartment&apartmentid=127&lan=en&fromos=2&ord=1)

If you see something you like then you can inquire on here about the location. It does not hurt to do a Google search yourself to locate this type of place.

[ceejay]

Thank you all. I have looked over a number of places on the net, although not the one you provided the link to Kjun 12. That's most helpful.
I wouldn't be looking for a long term stay in Luang Prabang. That's just one possibility for a 90 day visa run. I hadn't thought of a boat trip along the Mekong. That's certainly an idea to bear in mind.
There's a trade-off in the dates. Not spending March in Thailand means spending it in England! Maybe I could compromise on mid-October to mid March.
The reason I was thinking of privately rented is that this is in some ways a "dry run" to see if I would want to become a permanent expat in Thailand. For that purpose, perhaps serviced apartments are a bit too cocooned and I should experience the hassles. On the other hand, maybe serviced is the way to go for a first extended visit.
Thanks for the tip on the YMCA language school. That looks pretty good to me, and their schedule fits in pretty well with what I have in mind.
Once again guys, my thanks.

[pong]

I think you overstate the diff between serviced and non-serv aprtmts-it is more a matter of quality, price and location. I think (I also really prefer to be in th area around Tha Paegate /just in or out of the moated ''old''town-or in the very quiet subsois between TaPae rd and Loy Kroh. Many permament stayers also stay in serviced aprtmts. There just do not seem to be many unserviced aprtmts in that area.
Do note that from (varies every year( around half febr the plague of the north may start coming: the smoked skies due to burning of hillsides.
Stayig long time in laos brings uch more burocratic hassles as it does in Thailand.
I also learned the spoken and written Thai in CM-it is best for that, the people tend to be more relaxed, speak more slowly and are easier to understand hence. Lao-also as poken in lgPrbg is fauirly diferent from that. You can find Tai lessons anywhere-private, classes,and there is no fixed ''rate'' for that- also what makes a good teacher really differs from person to person. Classes tend to start from some book-not to anyones liking.

[ceejay]

After seeing your previous responses, I have taken your advice and looked at serviced apartments. These three are favourites, and I'd appreciate any input on matters such as accessibility to town, reputation of the place etc. If anyone has actually stayed in these places, then it would be great to hear.
The Galare Thong looks good, in terms of what I want. It seems rather far out though (near the junction of Chang Klan Road and Chiang Mai Land). Would I be OK getting transport back here at, say, midnight? (I'm not much of a night bird.)
http://www.galarethong.com/location.html
Viangbua Mansions looks good, and it seems quite handy for the YMCA (which may matter to me, because I intend to take Thai language lessons there) Drawback is that it seems a little expensive and I am not too keen on their deposit policy (2 months for a 3 month plus stay)
http://www.viangbuamansion-chiangmai.co ... angmai.htm (http://www.viangbuamansion-chiangmai.com/map_of_chiangmai.htm)
Finally, Life in Town. The location is very central, the price is OK, I'm not so sure about the rooms.
http://www.lifeintownchiangmai.com/map-directions.html
Any input you can give, I would be grateful for.
Thanks

[Khor tose]

I am familiar with all three places. Well sort of familiar as I did not realize they had serviced apartments. For the best location I would recommend Vingbua Mansion as it is close to Lotus Hotel/garden Bar (gay), Adams Apple (gay), Spirit House restaurant (GAY), and Radchada bar and restaurant (gay). Good location, easy to get tuk tuk or red cabs, close to local Thai market and/or Tops supermarket and the rooms are nice.

[BonTong]

Out of the three I agree with Khor tose. Viangbua is the best choice.

I'd forget Galare Thong, it's an old building (appearances can be deceptive) and the area flooded badly last year. Apart from a couple of massage places nothing much down that way. You'd not have too much problem getting back from there but it's a hike to anywhere decent and Chiang Mai land is not the safest place to be in CM at night. Life in Town, location is only partly OK, yes it's close to downtown, but on the edge of the moat where there's heavy traffic - you've got to get across there to go anywhere. I wouldn't want to live there!

Viangbua's location is good for gay stuff and it's a nice friendly place (I lived there way back when it first opened) but there's nothing much around there in the daytime if you want anything Farang. However, it's definitely overpriced and showing signs of it's age. A couple of better choices in that area might be: View Doi Mansion (http://www.viewdoimansion.com) right in the center of Santitham and five minutes walk to the YMCA yet still close to the places Khor tose mentioned. Another is The Dome Residence (http://www.thedomechiangmai.com/) off Huay Kaew Road. located in the same soi as PJs Place guesthouse. This is still close to the YMCA, Kad Saun Kaew, Santitham bars, other places like Soho, Pern's and the whole Nimaanheminda Road area. I know several Viangbua regulars now prefer the Dome. [N.B. The Dome was originally marketed as a Serviced Apartment but is now calling itself a Hotel - though I believe they still do long term rates]

Hope this helps.

P.S. I keep meaning to write an article on longer term gay accommodation in Chiang Mai - this might be the inspiration ;)

[ceejay]

I'm here in Chiang Mai now and for the next few months. I've settled in to the Dome, and I thought it might be useful to others to describe how I looked for a place and why I settled on the Dome.
First comment is that finding a longer term place is nothing to worry about. There are apartment blocks going up all over the place. I had no problem finding several with long term rooms available. You just walk in and ask at reception and my basic advice would be to walk around a bit, settle on an area you like, then just check out the apartments in that area. These are just the ones I visited having stayed at PJ's place for the first 5 days, and decided Huay Kaew Road was a good area to stay. I don't pretend these are a comprehensive or even coherent selection: they are just the places I visited and I offer them to give some idea of the sort of things that are available.
The Dome, Soi Plub Plueng (Huay Kaew Road). This is at the top of the Soi where PJ's is located. Bht 6000 per month for a standard room, 10,000 for superior and 12,000 for a suite. 1000 a month for cleaning and linen change once a week, 500 a month for internet access (internet access in lobby for free). 200 a month for water, 9 baht/unit for electricity (which is high - but not really a problem as I don't use the aircon much in CM.)
Sakulchai Place 10, Soi Plubplueng. Basically offer a reasonably sized room with a very small table and 2 chairs in the window. Said they didn't usually offer long term rentals starting in the high season, but then offered me one on the basis that I was making the booking (to start 1st November) before the end of October. No deposit mentioned, 15,000 baht a month inclusive of electricity, water, internet and cleaning and linen change 3 times a week.
Chiang Mai Lodge, Ratchapuek Road (next road along from Soi Plubplueng, towards the moat). Basically, a reasonably sized hotel room. 8500 a month to include water internet, cleaning and linen change once a week. Wouldn't give a rate for electricity but stated "most customers pay 800 or 900 a month". Also offered the option of baht 4500 a month, no internet, no linen, clean it yourself. Note: there are 2 or 3 other apartment blocks along this road.
View Doi Mansion. Recommended to me by a former resident, as well as Bon Tong. Fully booked until well into 2013, so not an option.
I also went to a couple of condo blocks. These will be private lets, the contract being between you and the owner of the individual condo, but if you go into the condo office they will know if any are available. As it turned out, one had nothing for a deal of less than 6 months and the other was not really to my liking. Also, I decided against a private rental of this kind - seeing it as possibly creating problems when the time came to leave. I personally think a private rental is better suited to a permanent resident rather than a longer term visitor.
I settled on a suite the Dome because the suites are really very nice for the money. They are proper suites - separate small lounge and bedroom. There's also a small sink there - which is a must if you are going to eat food in the room at all often. All up, including internet, cleaning and electricity, it'll cost me around 15,000 a month. To me, that's worth paying to have a decent space for 5 months.
My advice for anyone looking for something similar is:
1) Don't rely on the internet. A lot of these places have no internet presence I can find.
2) Wait till you arrive and just look around - just walk in and ask. Don't take the first place you find.
3) When you budget, allow for an extra 2 months deposit (pretty standard for monthly rentals). You'll get it back at the end of the stay, but you'll need to find it in the first place.
Your mileage may vary note
I was looking in the last week in October, just before the start of the high season. It could be harder in the high season but there are so many new places going up here, I doubt that you would be unable to find somewhere at any time of year.
And finally:: my thanks to Bob for making me welcome and showing me around.

[BonTong]

Ceejay, welcome to Chiang Mai. Glad it all worked out.

As you've noted, best way to find serviced apartments here is to walk around. In the Santiham area I'm just amazed the number of new places that have sprung up from nowhere in just a few months. Many are not on the internet so the only real way is to put in some foot work. The trick is to find the one's with a Farang friendly concept and management. You can get some great deals but not everyone wants to sit on a floor mat eating sticky rice and watching Thai soaps!