Offed Boys

[arsenal]

I offed a boy from a bar in Boyztown, bit of a rush as the bar was closing and I really wanted some fresh flesh. He was gay and very attractive. Back at the hotel he started with the old "I have my tooth pulled out today" routine. I told him I had heard that one before. Undeterred he then moved onto the even older "I have only key to the room" story. Then he just lay there like a rag doll. I told him to get dressed and he could go but that I would only pay him 500 Baht because that was all he deserved, not the 1000 we had agreed. As we were leaving the hotel he said he was calling the police. "Call them" I said "and tell them that you are the worst boy I have ever offed. We parted company.
Paying him only 500 did not sit easily with me, not at all, but he was a waste of time.
The next night I offed a boy from Happy Boys, a straight boy. He was an absolute delight from start to finish. So as well as the 1000 Baht I had agreed I also gave him the other 500 that I hadn't given to the first boy and I explained why. Naturally he was very pleased.
Overall I think I acted correctly but I would be interested in others opinion.

[francois]

Arsenal, you are a generous man.

[gaymandenmark]

I know, I know it is business, but have you ever thought, that when a boy don't do what you think he was supposed to do, it could be because he does not fancy you in any way.
It is maybe better for him to leave you with the 500 baht, than degrade himself for 1000 baht. :snorting:

[Neal]

many of them think this stupid line about that they are going to call the police will get them somewhere or something extra. A few weeks ago as I was parking, we had to move a motorbike over as it was taking up a car parking place so we moved it to the FRONT of where the truck parked. Sure it was going to be a bitch for the kid to get the bike out but then he shouldn't park it in such a stupid place. Later, after he got the bike out, he pointed to a scratch on his mirror and said I scratched it. Well we knew we did not. He said if I did not pay for it he was calling the police. I said for him to go ahead and that I would be at the bar all night. I even asked if he would like me to call for him. Of course off he drove without calling or doing anything.

The old story is, if you are going o be intimidated by these street urchins, you deserve everything you get. If you are going to stand up for what you believe, nothing will go wrong.

[arsenal]

Neal: You are going off topic?

GaymanDenmark: He doesn't have to come with me, he can say no. He's not a slave. And don't be ridiculous, of course he doesn't fancy me. I'm not asking him to.

[Neal]

Thank you for taking on the job of a the new moderator, I shall have to send myself a PM advising me of this.
As far as going off topic, I don't think I am in any way shape or form, I am addressing the point of the threat that the urchin threatened that he was going to call the police.

[arsenal]

Neal: Thank you for your kind offer but I am too busy having sex, often with the boys from your bar. Ha ha.

[Neal]

Ah good then, you take the boys off and I will play moderator and decide who goes off topic and when. All settled. lol :3some:

[arsenal]

My last post was deleted. The statemnent below says all I have to say.

My last post was deleted. The statemnent below says all I have to say.

I feel privileged to have seen your post before it was expunged!

Seemed inoffensive to me :dontknow:

[jinks]

I feel privileged to have seen your post before it was expunged!


Such technical terms for a hylander.
However I am sure one of our techno wizards will have an address for a good cached page.

Trust me it's not worth searching for (no offence intended) - like most arguments on here, it's all a storm in a teacup.

[arsenal]

Scottish-Guy: No offence taken. I agree with you completely.

[Jellybean]

For what itтАЩs worth Arsenal I think you did the right thing. I had a similar situation in Hua Hin a few years ago and brought a really handsome guy back to my house. After a while of small talk he said he was hungry, but I only had breakfast cereal in the kitchen so we jumped in the car and went out to the local 7/11. I bought a range of small snacks for him and we returned to the house. After he had satisfied his hunger we showered and went to bed. But, just as in your case, he was absolutely hopeless тАУ just like a ragdoll as you said in your original post. He was a complete waste of time, he was supposed to stay overnight, but I thought, whatтАЩs the point? I asked him to go and get dressed. I was none too happy and said, in the heat of the moment, I wasnтАЩt going to pay him anything. He didnтАЩt say anything, just looked at me with the lovely puppy dog eyes that had attracted me to him in the first place. In all conscience I couldnтАЩt not pay him, so I changed my mind, gave him 500 Baht, said I was sorry it hadnтАЩt worked out and drove him back to his room.

Given the huge number of men IтАЩve been with such occasions are, thankfully, very rare. I can think of one other occasion in Chiang Mai and another occasion in Pattaya, which I mentioned in another thread. I suppose given the law of averages a nonperformer is to be expected now and again, but it is so frustrating when it happens.

[martin911]

Arsenal --
Judging from what you wrote in the opening post it "looks like " you seem to be the type of person that thinks that once they have offed a boy that he is yours and he should do what you want him to do -- like buying a piece of meat etc !!

Telling him he was the worst boy you had ever "offed " sounds a touch crass do you not think ?? ( i big farang ,i can buy many poor Thai boys etc )

I firmly believe that if you treat the guys with a little basic respect you will have it repaid by the bucket loads

I have Never heard the' tooth pulled today' story --you on the otherhand have a lot by the sounds of it !! (one wonders why ) :dontknow:

Mabye the guys performance with you had more to do with your attitude to him ???-- which he will have reported back on to his pals in the bar

And for the sake of 500 B you decided to teach him a lesson !!! (again big farang/poor thai boy mentality )

Bully for you !! -make you feel important did it ??

Just an obversation !

[martin911]

Arsenal, you are a generous man.

Another one !!!! :occasion9:

[gaymandenmark]

Arsenal --
Judging from what you wrote in the opening post it "looks like " you seem to be the type of person that thinks that once they have offed a boy that he is yours and he should do what you want him to do -- like buying a piece of meat etc !!

Just an obversation !

Correct observation, Arsenal wrote: "and I really wanted some fresh flesh"

[francois]

Arsenal was generous. Most farang would not have paid the boy any money, much less 500 Baht. In fact many farang would never pay more then 700 Baht for the best sex ever. The boy with Arsenal was fortunate to receive 500 Baht. The next boy was even more fortunate to receive 1500 Baht.

[christianpfc]

I had a few duds, and now treat them similar as Arsenal does (however without saying anything insulting like "the worst boy I have ever offed" and it took some time finding the right way, read here http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/post227160.html).

I never heard or read "I have my tooth pulled out today".

Some people argue that it doesn't make much difference for a Farang paying 500 Baht for non-performance or paying the full 1000 Baht (average short time) for non-performance, but it does to the boy. I argue otherwise: the customer can lose up to an entire night of his hard-earned and well-deserved holiday, the boy can find a new customer the next night. So the situation is that the customer lost a night of his holiday, the boy just a working day. Therefore, I find it correct to reduce the tip for non-performance, even if the money saved is negligible by European standards, but it might save future customers of the boy from similar disappointments.

[gaymandenmark]

Come on, for me it has nothing to do if arsenal tipped 500 or 1000 baht.

It is his words:: "you are the worst boy I have ever offed" and
"I needed som new flesh."

If that is his attitude to the "working boys", and he use the word flesh, about a human being. it seems to me that he has no respect to or for the boys.

[martin911]

Arsenal was generous. Most farang would not have paid the boy any money, much less 500 Baht. In fact many farang would never pay more then 700 Baht for the best sex ever. The boy with Arsenal was fortunate to receive 500 Baht. The next boy was even more fortunate to receive 1500 Baht.

To make those statments in your post -- "most farang would not have paid any money /many farang would never pay more than 700b for the best sex ever " --would you mind explaining where you got such information ?????

Or are these just your own responses and you are trying to justify your own mean/petty characteristics by trying to maintain that this is what "most other farang " would do !!

Personally, I would have paid him his 1000B, said sweet goodbyes, and just never have hired him again.

I've always found it prudent to stay on good terms with the boys - even the ones who don't deliver exactly what you expected.

I just don't think it's worth the argument and maybe even danger to make a scene for the sake of 500B/┬г10 - but everybody reacts differently.

:occasion9:

[arsenal]

About 18 trips to Thailand since 2004, roughly 100 boys offed, 1st time I've felt the need to pay less than agreed but then the 1st time the agreed services were less than agreed.

The "worst boy comment" was designed to make it absolutely clear that he was free to call the police if he desired and that I would state my case to them if and when they arrived.

I only offed 6 boys this trip, 5 of whom were previous encounters from December.

Martin: I suggest you call 911 because you and the man from Denmark are so far up each others arses and so high on the moral high ground that you will both need oxygen very soon.

[TravellerDave]

I've being spending holidays in Pattaya since 2005 and have made 15 separate trips. During this time I must have offed over a hundred boys from bars, gogo's and met them on the gay beach. I have had very few significant problems with Thai boys but I am always wary of getting into disputes with them, as I was advised during my first visit that as a farang I would come out worst.
3 years ago it was my last night before going home and I had decided to sleep alone, but went into Kaos gogo just before closing. A very attractive boy caught my eye and came to sit with me. I agreed a long time with him at 1500 and took him to my room. It was unusual for me to agree the tip beforehand but I was keen to get him into my bed. The sex was good and after I fucked him and took a shower, I prepared to go to sleep, before which I unwrapped another condom, because I dont like fumbling about with them in the dark. On seeing this he sad "What you do". I said "For the morning" to which he replied "Only short time - I go now - give me 1500 baht money". I said we agreed long-time and gave him 1000 for short time. He started shouting that he wanted another 500. I was a bit shaken and gave it to him even though I felt cheated but what could I have done ?.

[francois]

To make those statments in your post -- "most farang would not have paid any money /many farang would never pay more than 700b for the best sex ever " --would you mind explaining where you got such information ?????

Or are these just your own responses and you are trying to justify your own mean/petty characteristics by trying to maintain that this is what "most other farang " would do !!

Martin, what makes you think I am mean and petty? You don't know me at all. If anything I am kind and generous.

I do know many farang and they believe 700 Baht is tops for sex, no matter what. My own belief is 1000 Baht is a fair price for short time. If someone does not wish to perform then best to send them off with 500 Baht as did Arsenal.

[Dodger]

I've been coming to Thailand for the past 12 years - have been with hundrends of different boys myself and never once discussed the amount of the tip with the boy - nor have I ever felt the need to tell a boy what my expectations were involving our time together. If I mis-judged the characteristics of the boy and ended up a bit disdasppointed as a result I just chalked it up to simply that - a misjudgement on my part and tipped him the same amount as I would if my judgement would have been correct. The tip always remained the same.

Having said that, I can count the times that I didn't have a great time with a boy on one hand.

This crap about...what will you do in bed?...will you do this or that?...can I do this to you?...etc., etc., is the first step in laying a platform for a not-so-fulfilling interaction with him. He now views you as being shallow...without any real substance...a task to be overcome...bad karma. You further evaporate in his eyes when you insert money into the discussion...as if he's a piece of meat...not worthy of human compassion...a tangible and/or replaceable object on a shelf.

To each his own.

Dodger I completely agree with you and, like yourself, I have never discussed price nor do I enter into discussions on what I expect to happen other than I want LT - and if he cannot do LT I'm not interested that night (sorry) but I'll be interested when he can do LT.

I tip 1500/2000 BKK and Phuket and 1000/1500 Pattaya. The geographical differential was suggested to me on my very first trip and I have stuck to it. Also, I have tipped the same for 10 years and I still believe I am pretty much on the "going rate" The only deviation is upwards if I feel I really liked the boy. If I felt he was unenthusiastic then I pay the bare rate, smile sweetly, thank him, and remember it. If he approaches again I buy him a drink but make some excuse not to off him. I don't see how making a big issue out of not getting your cock sucked (or whatever you expected) gets you anywhere.

I'm not criticising people who feel they want to agree a "menu" of what is to be done and to whom, it's just not my way and I've very rarely been disappointed. Similarly I dislike discussing the tip beforehand and prefer to just hand over my standard tip(+ bonus if merited). I think I like playing the rather sweet "game" that it is indeed a "personal tip" rather than payment for a mercenary service and I can't imagine that many boys want to sit in their knickers in a gogo bar and discuss what you will do to him and how much you will pay him for it.

I've never had a confrontation over the tip either - I think once somebody asked for taxi money on top but thats it.

I'm not saying I'm right and others are wrong, I'm just giving my experience.

[joe552]

I'm with scottish-guy and Dodger on this one. I don't discuss the tip beforehand. After all, I'm buying (or rather renting) a fantasy for a couple of hours. Discussing the price negates the fantasy. I've never had a problem yet.

Totally agree with you guys, the very thought of sitting in a bar discussing money with one of the guys just "feels" wrong to me as it's not like I'm ever going to get down to "negotiating" with him anyway. The only one thing I very subtly do, either with the mamasan or the boy perhaps is to clarify the whole "don't worry I do everything" line to make SURE that's the case just to avoid any confusions later and as far as I'm concerned after that "anything goes".

I can't imagine sitting at 9pm in a bar striking a price for X,Y and Z fuctions to take place later, that just sounds odd and cold and almost technical, plus I'd never actually remember what I'd agreed I wanted anyway plus my likes change on a whim depending on just how hot the guy is ( and I guess how horny I'm feeling), so, I tend to just go out with the guy, make sure we both have a laugh, both have a few (or lots) of beers of whatever we're drinking, fall home at whatever time we're ready and just take it from there and just whatever happens happens and so far as a rule I've had very few complaints.

And even if I DID have a "complaint" or wasn't fussed on something about the boy for whatever reason I certainly wouldn't bother bringing it up and / or linking that to a discussion about money etc, lifes too short, the amount of money too little and it's REALLY not worth stressing out about, give him his money, tell him he was wonderful, leave on good terms ( so I don't get a bottle over the head some night when walking home along a dark Soi) and lie back and plan my next nights encounter - or if he was REALLY crap go out and get myself a new friend who will hopefully do better :-)

[a447]

Martin911 wrote:
Mabye the guys performance with you had more to do with your attitude to him ???-- which he will have reported back on to his pals in the bar

And for the sake of 500 B you decided to teach him a lesson !!! (again big farang/poor thai boy mentality )

Bully for you !! -make you feel important did it ??

Just an obversation !

Mmmm...sounds familiar. I think you made a similar post about ME, Martin, and I remember thinking, "How can someone make such a comment about someone they don't know?" What I DO know is your post about the power play thing in relation to me was completely off the mark. I have enough self esteem so that I do not need to do things to make me feel "important." It may very well be off the mark in relation to arsenal, also. How do you know arsenal's attitude may have been bad? Why couldn't you also suggest that maybe the boy's attitude was bad??
Of course we are in a superior position when it comes to financial resources compared to the bar boys - we know that and so do the boys- but that doesn't automatically mean we all abuse our position. It is certainly NOT about the "big farang/poor thai boy mentality." As you said, anyone with any sense would know that if you are mean to the boys, it soon gets around in the bar and you might have trouble finding a boy for the night.

I agree with arsenal's actions. It's a business deal, and BOTH parties have to hold up their end of the deal. The fact that one of the parties is poorer than the other is of no consequence at all. However, both parties must know exactly what the deal is before the boy is offed; that's why I always say what I want and how much I will pay. My Pattaya rates are the same as Scottish-Guy's. I've only been disappointed (i.e. the boy didn't do what he said) 2 or 3 times over the years. I doubt many boys would feel uncomfortable mentioning money or saying what they are willing to do in bed. Afterall, they do not suffer the "sex is dirty" western christian guilt thing and I'm sure lots of them have done it many, many times in their life with farangs in the bar. I
A lot more than I have, that's for sure.

[pong]

again fully agree-like so many times with you before. And most times-way back when Iwent to bars and offed boys- it surpassed the general expectations-but not always. About same-same now with those massageshops-often really surprised and happy as to what they are able to deliver and offer.
Dont fall for pretty faces- you can always close you eyes. Plus at massage you ly on your front mostly anyway and do only feel him and not see.

[gaymandenmark]

I am totally with Dodger, Scottish, Nirish and Joe on this one.
Even if it might be an illusion, and there is a money transaction at the end, I see the guy as a human being, and not just some flesh, who is born to satisfy my sexual needs.
I want to have a nice and fun time with him, let him feel attractive, and try to show him I am good company. I think it should be a pleasure for both. Sometimes I tell him I am a top, but as I normally go for the more feminine looking guys it is not a problem.

Am I a romantic fool?, maybe, but that way some of the guys come back again and again, even without money involved. Then I have the feeling that the guy has chosen me over other customers. A really nice feeling.

Last time I was in Pattaya for a couple of days, I went into a bar, and one of the guys, I have known for some time, was working there.
When he saw me, he clapped his hands and jumped on his feet, while he smiled and said with a loud voice: Why haven't you told me you come back.
What a sweet and nice welcome.

[arsenal]

I do not view anyone as pieces of meat. "Fresh flesh" is just a coin of phrase and if anyone wishes to describe me in that way I shall be delighted. Weir, Nick, Eff, Bang, Dae and Tong were the names of the boys I offed this trip. I always ask what they do and how much they want.
The thing is that the huge majority of the boys in Pattaya are quite fantastic so when a dud comes along he really stands out. And once again, I'm sorry to admit. The straight boys are SO much better at sex than the gay ones. Also, do remember that nearly all of the straights do go with women as well but they usually prefer to go with men. One, because we pay more and two because it's actually much less work, so they tell me.

[martin911]

Francios

I think you awswered your question to me all by yourself in your very last sentence -- paying 500 b to any boy after they have preformed ANY type of sexual service to somebody ( who they normally wouldnt fancy !!!!!!!) is mean !!!!
And i think its petty to reduce a boys fee from a prospective 1000 down to 500 just because he did not preform to what YOU deemed acceptable
As NIrishsays the amount of money is so little to fuss over
.The boy will have had sex with probably with more farang than you --and whats acceptable for one farang might not be to another --How in one sexual encounter is somebody to know what is acceptable or not ????--
If he is laying there like a rag doll is prob more to do with you than him :laughing3:

Arsenal

-I il stick with my own morals and you stick with yours -- again you might ask yourself the question of why you have heard the "tooth pulled today" story so many times (AS YOU SAID YOURSELF )

In your initial post YOU ASKED other posters opinions on something you had done ---Just because you get feedback you may NOT LIKE is no reason to start insulting the fellow poster --(again it looks a little crass ) :dontknow:


Dodger et al
I fully agree with the posters on not discussing prices/sexual services beforehand with a guy i have just met - i also believe it takes away from the upcoming encounter
However if a boy trys to talk money WITH ME on GR/ in bar etc then i als politely decline his services ( im not talking about when a guy says " i moneyboy " -that i not mind /its the monetary amount that i not like -)
- i am going to Thailand for coming up to 10 odd years /have no idea how many guys ive met but i have had very few times that i was unhappy with -- but i would Never make a boy feel as if he was not good and als paid him what i consider to be a decent tip !!
For me to be with a cute naked (usually happy ) Thai guy in bed with me is plenty good --
Thats why i am here in the first place -- BECAUSE they are not available in our home countries -- some posters might do well to dwell on that when it comes on what way to treat them

A447 ---lol you must be very bored with LP/BL gone --- now you want to start nitpicking with ME on what i said in one of my prior posts about you !!!!! --(as YOU YOURSELF used to say to LP/bl -do we see a pattern/theme here ?? )
:notworthy: :notworthy:
I have made an obsveration on what the poster said (others have agreed/dissagreed ,its what makes the world go around )--Dont get your knickers in a twist -its not like im gonna take a full page in their local paper and state same --

Its NOT a business deal as you say !!!! where both parties have to stand over what they commit to etc etc--

-- its one person buying the sexual services from another -- there are no fallback prodedures that exsist (contracts/ courts/etc ) in the case of a "business "deal --
How can you compare buying the sexual time of a (Usually ) uneducated poor thai boy(who prob does not fully understand what you want/or tell him)-same goes for the mamasan in whatever bar u picked up the boy in-all they want is you to take off the boy ------- to what happens in the world of business ??

[martin911]

Aresnal -- you say straights are better in sex than gay guys ??? and that they usually PREFER to go with guys rather than women ???

Thats pretty interesting --i didnt know that !!! - :dontknow:

You must be very good with them in bed then if they tell you this information :snorting:

-i must start taking off straight guys so (note to myself ,have one in the house already :laughing3: )

OH and the 911 thing -- very witty , you really are on the ball tonite !! :occasion9:

[martin911]

PONG

What type of cocktail are you on tonite ?? -- your english skills are slipping YET again :laughing3:

[francois]

Francios

I think you awswered your question to me all by yourself in your very last sentence -- paying 500 b to any boy after they have preformed ANY type of sexual service to somebody ( who they normally wouldnt fancy !!!!!!!) is mean !!!!
And i think its petty to reduce a boys fee from a prospective 1000 down to 500 just because he did not preform to what YOU deemed acceptable

Martin, did I read arsenal's post incorrectly? He said the boy laid their like a rag doll. He did not say the boy preformed in any type of sexual service.

In your initial post YOU ASKED other posters opinions on something you had done ---Just because you get feedback you may NOT LIKE is no reason to start insulting the fellow poster --(again it looks a little crass ) :dontknow:

Martin, why are you insulting me? I never said anything to you! I only agreed with Arsenal's actions. You are being the crass one by insulting posters who do not agree with you.

I think half the posters on here are drunk

:occasion9:

[joe552]

Well I'm not, but I'm working on it :alc:

[martin911]

Francois --i am not insulting you !!!
--and you seem to have the quotes mixed up i think-- "in your Initial post "etc is a response to arsenal not your good self!!

Look if you Dont think giving a poor boy 500b for a sexual service is MEAN then thats fine for YOU
And if YOU dont think its PETTY to give a boy 500 INSTEAD of 1000 because the boy failed to preform to what you deem is acceptable!!! -well then thats your prerogative
We will just have to agree to disagree on this one -- i did not set out to insult you --but you seem to be quite sensitive to the suggestion that paying a boy low amounts of money is ok !!!!!

[christianpfc]

I agree with those who thing "fresh flesh" and "worst boy ever" is inappropriate and humiliating. I would avoid such phrases.


Dodger I completely agree with you and, like yourself, I have never discussed price nor do I enter into discussions on what I expect to happen other than I want LT - and if he cannot do LT I'm not interested that night (sorry) but I'll be interested when he can do LT.
I had so many cases where long time (agreed in the bar) changed to short time, I don't even ask any more (when offing), I just pay short time (when he leaves).


Dont fall for pretty faces- you can always close you eyes. Plus at massage you ly on your front mostly anyway and do only feel him and not see.
That might work for you, but not for me. I am wired differently. I want to see and touch. That includes the light being on (I had to negotiate this in a few cases).

(6 holidays in Thailand in 2.5 years, about 30 offs out of which 3 didn't work out to my satisfaction, but now I think I learned how to avoid or deal with it)

[colmx]

I fully agree with the posters on not discussing prices/sexual services beforehand with a guy i have just met - i also believe it takes away from the upcoming encounter
However if a boy trys to talk money WITH ME on GR/ in bar etc then i als politely decline his services ( im not talking about when a guy says " i moneyboy " -that i not mind /its the monetary amount that i not like -)

Same same for me....
Anyone that discusses money or names his price in the bar does noty get offed by me

Last April i had 2 nights to myself in Pattaya before BF came to visit and i went with some of his friends to Dave
Offered one of the coyotes a drink, first thing he said when he got his cocktail was ├┐ou want me, pay me 2000 or more, up to you"

Needless to say he didn't get offered a second drink :blackeye: :blackeye:
Its not the price that scared me (he was probably worth it!)
It was the attitude

With me, i am generally always with my BF and if I/We/He usually take 1-2 guys off and go drinking... if there is no spark - 1 or both would be sent home with 5-600B after the disco.

If the spark is there 1 or both will come home with either 1 or both of us

We just go with the flow and see how it works out... if it all falls flat... we still have each other :love4: :love4:

And no Catholic guilt there... its also my BFs policy (and he knows enough about being a barboy!)

[arsenal]

Martin: Three consecutive posts on the same thread from you is very strange. The straight boys. Well I don't know, I can only report what they tell me during normal conversation. I presume you do actually talk to the boys you off.

[Impulse]

I seem to end up running after straight guys.I don't know what that says about me, but I find so many of them real attractive.this one from Good Bois was real handsome. i hope he is still there next year.
But I welcome a boi making an offer to me.Why should'nt they.It's up to us to say no. I was next to Eurobois having a drink, and a nice looking straight boi asked me if I wanted him for 1500, i said 1000 and off we went..great time.

[francois]

Same as many other posters I do not discuss price with those I off. But recently a massage boy asked "if I wanted" sex; even a blind person could "see" I was very much interested. I said Yes, and he said 1500 Baht! I should have said No and left him with the standard non-sex tip for a massage. But did agree to 600 Baht and then told he "not samoke" ! A queeny gay massage boy who did not samoke is in the wrong business. Yes, a waste of money but a lesson learned.

[a447]

Martin911 wrote:
A447 ---lol you must be very bored with LP/BL gone --- now you want to start nitpicking with ME on what i said in one of my prior posts about you !!!!!

1) I don't think I have ever posted much about BL at all over the years, so I can hardly be bored by his absence if I ignored him when he was here.

2) LP hasn't gone - he's still here - but using other OPs. But I thought we'd all kinda moved on from him.

3) I'm not nitpicking with YOU - I'm simply saying your judgement about me, based on ONE post, was totally false. I then suggested maybe your post about arsenal could also be possibly false. Unless, of course, he has a history of posts going back over the years where he appears to be mean with money or treat the boys with disrespect. I don't think so, but I could be wrong.


do we see a pattern/theme here ??

?? Sorry, you've lost me there. What is the pattern/theme?


I have made an obsveration on what the poster said

Said ONCE. Hardly grounds for an insulting observation from you.


Its NOT a business deal as you say !!!! where both parties have to stand over what they commit to etc etc--

Why isn't it??

And if, as you say, both parties don't "have to stand over what they commit,"are you suggesting the farang doesn't have to pay the agreed amount?? I hope not!

It IS a business deal, pure and simple. The only thing is, contrary to what you think, the farang is often in the inferior position as he has probably not offed as many boys as the number of farangs the boy has gone with. In many cases, the boy is far more experienced in doing the deal.

If the boy exercises his choice not to perform as agreed he would in the bar, then does that mean the farang can exercise HIS choice and not pay the agreed price? Afterall, BOTH can be free agents if they decide to be.


there are no fallback prodedures that exsist (contracts/ courts/etc ) in the case of a "business "deal --

Martin! It is not really all that complicated, you know. The boy AND the mamsan are in the business of selling sex. Quite simple, really. Not hard to work out a price and agree on what to do in bed. Afterall, most of the questions are yes/no answers ("Do you...? Can I ....?) And yes, Martin, even an "uneducated poor Thai boy" can answer yes/no. If they lie, then that's a different matter. It doesn't mean they didn't understand.

[latintopxxx]

a447...you r starting to sound like me...kinda scary...and amusing all at the same time...

.

Back! Back! Unholy demon!

The power of Christ compels you!


[attachment=0:3msyawpv]latinpoxxx-gets-it.jpg[/attachment:3msyawpv]

[latintopxxx]

..trick is to use a sharpened stake...
Never really went away...after my totally hurtful and unjustified banning I now tend to just lurk in the dark recesses and observe...totally amusing to watch the moral and price police pile onto some poster who "dare'refer to someone as "flesh".....customers can be referred to as ATms and no one bats an eye lid...but the boys must be accorded the same level of respect one normally reserves for ones grand mother...
Actually do find the forum useful to pick up tips on accomodation, shopping and meals...oh dear now i do sound like an old fart with a little dick...

[alipatt-old]

Maybe for 1500 he would have !!!

[pennyboy]

I generally agree with Arsenal on this one. If a boy lies ilke a rag doll not willing to do anything he should be shown the door with a sum less that that given to someone who participates.
I have no problem with agreeing the general price and the activities I wish to take place nor does the boy appear to have any problem as I get many return visitors. To suggest that the karma and other such nonense is better when neither is discussed is just that. At the end of the day we take a boy, have sex and pay the boy and hope that both had a good time.

[Neal]

Never really went away...after my totally hurtful and unjustified banning I now tend to just lurk in the dark recesses and observe...
Ever hear the expression that opinions are like A holes. Everyone has one? Your opinion that it was unjustified and hurtful is your opinion. Certainly did calm the board down. As far as lurking in the dark and rece :3some: sses and observe? Good idea!

[a447]

pennyboy wrote:
If a boy lies ilke a rag doll not willing to do anything he should be shown the door with a sum less that that given to someone who participates.

I agree 100%. You've nailed it with that one comment.

Why pay a guy who doesn't hold up his end of the bargain the same as one who does? As we all know that the boys talk about us in the bar, word would soon get around that you get paid whether you perform or not. Where is the incentive for the boys to perform?? That is just plain stupid.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! lol.

[martin911]

a447...you r starting to sound like me...kinda scary...and amusing all at the same time...


Latinpox --have to say im in agreement with you on that one !!(not the first bit -the latter two ) :crazy:

And A4 you have no idea when i say- is there a pattern here ?? :8( if you could mabye take a look at your post again (act your second post is an even better example for you!! )
- it might help refresh your very resourceful memory :bounce:

Ok you say a farang buying the sexual services/time from a thai boy is" a business deal" --and i say it is not just like ABD -- (for various reasons- one of them being that most thai boys would not have a clue to what a business deal might be !! )

We could go on and on about this (But -TBH id rather not ,given your propensity to delve back in time and pluck out ones various comments in posts long dead to all here--and it might end up with a lot of valuable fun time being lost as a result !!) :8(




Lets just agree to dissagree on that one shall we eh :notworthy:

[martin911]

Martin: Three consecutive posts on the same thread from you is very strange. The straight boys. Well I don't know, I can only report what they tell me during normal conversation. I presume you do actually talk to the boys you off.

Strange ? why ?-- do tell arsenal why you think it strange --im all ears :laughing3:

I do of course talk to the boys (although i usually dont off straights ) --

So you are saying that your statements that straight boys are better in gay sex and that straights usually prefer going with giuys came about from normal consveration --- OK OK I believe you so :blackeye: --note must start hunting down the sexually superior (in gay sex ) straight guys from now on !!

[goji]

Overall I think I acted correctly but I would be interested in others opinion.

I think you were VERY fair. After all, why should someone who does not intend to keep his promises receive the same kind of tip as an honest genuine guy?
Coming up with loads of lame excuses & threatening to contact the police shows character flaws in your first boy.
Your generous treatment of the second shows good character traits in you.

[martin911]

Im sorry to report that my fellow countryman tells fibs!!!!! :crybaby: :crybaby:

Him and his BF do not "usually take off 1-2 guys and go drinking " as he stated in a prior post

To me its more like 4+ guys thats nearer the mark !! :notworthy: :notworthy:

Ive never seen 1/2 !!

Sometimes they have to book the top leftside in Dave to fit them all in !!!! :laughing3:

[joe552]

martin, that obviously isn't me you're talking about. surely you're not calling colmx a slut? :occasion9:

[Dodger]

a447 Wrote:


Where is the incentive for the boys to perform??

I think in your case the boys are asking themselves the same question.

[arsenal]

Martin: Yes, I do think that three consecutive posts on the same thread is strange, it suggests a considerable amount of brooding on the subject, and nothing else to do.

Go into Krazy, X-Boys etc and ask one of the straight boys why he doesn't work somewhere where lady customers are. Then you'll know won't you. :party

Certainly one could do that but the "straight" go-go boy is only going to give you the amswer he thinks you want to hear.

I find it very hard to accept the argument being put forward that straight boys choose a job fucking guys because it's too much effort to fuck women.

It's like starting to fuck sheep because you won't have to buy them a drink!

:occasion5:

[cdnmatt]

It's like starting to fuck sheep because you won't have to buy them a drink!

Don't all Scots fuck sheep at the edge of cliffs though?

I've heard it's great! You keep pushing forward, the sheep keeps pushing backward away from the cliff.

Yes cdnmatt, all Scots fuck sheep - just as every Canuck fucks his sister (yes, i know the younger brother in drag will do just as well)

But the real myth about sheep-fucking is that it's performed from behind.

No sir, you want those sexy devils on their backs so you can french kiss them during the act.

:occasion9:

[a447]

Martin911 wrote:
Latinpox --have to say im in agreement with you on that one !!(not the first bit -the latter two )

And A4 you have no idea when i say- is there a pattern here ??

So, are you saying I'm "kinda scary" and that in some way my posts are "amusing"??

No, I don't have any idea about the pattern you refer to. Why don't you just spell it all out??


most thai boys would not have a clue to what a business deal might be !!

I agree, Martin! I agree!! No argument on that one. But they don't need to know what a business deal is; they just need to do it. Afterall that is what they do for a living. Every night.


Lets just agree to dissagree on that one shall we eh

ok.


Dodger wrote:
a447 Wrote:

Where is the incentive for the boys to perform??


I think in your case the boys are asking themselves the same question.

Why would you think that?

And if that's the case, wouldn't they also be asking the same question in your case, too???? And in everyone's case?
And wouldn't the answer be the same??

I think that A447 and Martin911 and LatintopXXX ought to wrestle their differences out.

In the mud.

In fact - nude.

Actually, I hear DaBoss has a limitless supply of Jello, and we know he has a stage.

I volunteer to watch their handbags and gladrags.

:occasion9:

[Dodger]

Dodger wrote:


Where is the incentive for the boys to perform??


I think in your case the boys are asking themselves the same question.


a447 Wrote:


Why would you think that?

And if that's the case, wouldn't they also be asking the same question in your case, too???? And in everyone's case?
And wouldn't the answer be the same??

Maybe it's because they feel that being with someone of substance is all the incentive they need.

[a447]

Well, martin might turn up but we wouldn't hold our breath for Latin to arrive!
Anyway, no need for Neal to stand by the stage with a mop - martin and I have agreed to disagree. Or at least I think we have.

[a447]

For some reason, Dodger wrote:
Maybe it's because they feel that being with someone of substance is all the incentive they need.

All I can do in reply is to repeat my previous post:


if that's the case, wouldn't they also be asking the same question in your case, too????

Especially considering the amount of "substance" in your post! Still looking for some.

And I've got some sad news for you Dodger. You ready for it? The gogo boys are not particularly interested in "substance" in a guy old enough to be their father/grandfather/greatgrandfather, especially if the boys are gay. But they are interested in the contents of his wallet. And if the choice ever came down to "substance" over money, guess which one they would choose!

Dodger, your original post about me was a cheap, meaningless shot. There have been a few times when I could have made a similar cheap and nasty comment about a couple of your posts, but refrained from doing so.

And I would never accuse you of being without "substance" as I have never met you in person, so have no way of knowing.

[martin911]

Martin: Yes, I do think that three consecutive posts on the same thread is strange, it suggests a considerable amount of brooding on the subject, and nothing else to do.

Go into Krazy, X-Boys etc and ask one of the straight boys why he doesn't work somewhere where lady customers are. Then you'll know won't you. :party

Now you are starting to sound a little strange yourself A re 3 con posts --(is it breaking the forum rules ??-- ) and yes at times i have plenty of time to respond to posts on here (that breaking the rules also ??)


--can i ask one Q --are you only a bottom ??
Is this why you say the straight guys tell you that they prefer guys over ladys ??

I wont bother going into Krazy/aboys etc-- il just ask the straight boy that stays in my place (and for good measure his straight pals also ),and il ask any straight boy i see out tonite --(do they prefer to fuck men over girls (usually )

Il Get right back to you on that one soonest 5555555

[martin911]

A447 -- lets leave at agreeing to disagree shall we !!!!

(any chance you were a terrier in prev life ??)

Easier all round --but dont let that stop you w Dodger -- a 2 way of you and him would be entertaining i think

[Dodger]

a447 Wrote:


And I've got some sad news for you Dodger. You ready for it? The gogo boys are not particularly interested in "substance" in a guy old enough to be their father/grandfather/greatgrandfather, especially if the boys are gay. But they are interested in the contents of his wallet. And if the choice ever came down to "substance" over money, guess which one they would choose!

I guess you would have to define"choose" first. If by "choose" you mean get off the stage...go back to a punters hotel room...take off his clothes...lay there motionless on the bed as the OP described... for whatever tip he could get, then I guess the boy chose that particular farang to go off with...solely for the money of course.

If by "choose" you mean which farang would the boy choose to go off with if he had the choice: A farang with a mind like putty who sits there spinning his business deal asking the boy if it's OK to fuck him, or how much would it cost to fuck him - or be fucked by him, I think the boy would choose to go off with the farang two seats down who is jai dee and intelligent enough not to devalue the boy by asking such totally ignorant questions...regardless of how much money he thought either farang had in his wallet.

To answer your question more directly, I think the boy would choose "substance" over "money" every time.

[arsenal]

Martin: Your posts were strange but have now moved vinto pervy. Please go back to strange.

[a447]

Dodger wrote:
If by "choose" you mean which farang would the boy choose to go off with if he had the choice: A farang with a mind like putty who sits there spinning his business deal asking the boy if it's OK to fuck him, or how much would it cost to fuck him - or be fucked by him, I think the boy would choose to go off with the farang two seats down who is jai dee and intelligent enough not to devalue the boy by asking such totally ignorant questions...regardless of how much money he thought either farang had in his wallet.

Interesting that you equate non-negotiating with "jai dee." Fail to see the connection. (BTW it's not really negotiating as such - it's a take it or leave it proposition - on BOTH sides) I imagine the boys I have spoken to (they tend to be the older types) have been asked such "ignorant" questions hundreds of times. Nothing new there. They are quite used to it - it's part and parcel of their job. And if I am a top, why on earth isn't it ok to ask if he's a bottom???? Isn't that a normal question, or do you expect punters to just take pot luck?? No, thanks. Why pay for something you may not get back in your room, when a simple "Is it ok to fuck you?" would save disappointment? I mean, come on, Dodger, that's just stupid. A prostitute is hardly likely to free "devalued", be offended or embarrassed by such a question.

The boys are (legitimately) asking for money for the service they provide, so they have a right to know what they will receive in return. That gives them the option to say "no." Saves the boy any disappointment if the farang turns out to be a lousy punter who offers them a pittance. Don't you think the boy would rather know beforehand?? And if the boy says "up to you" then I TELL him this is what I am willing to pay. End of story. Both happy and noone more "devalued" than the other. Never once had a knock-back in all my visits to LOS over the years. Never been accused of being jai mai dee. Or unintelligent. Or having "a mind like putty." Or lacking "substance." etc. etc.

And speaking of being "devalued" "....a prostitute is no more or no less "devalued" than his client. Same, same. It takes 2 to tango. One wanting money, the other wanting sex. Simple, Dodger. Not complicated at all. Even someone accused of being unintelligent. Or having "a mind like putty." Or lacking "substance." can work that one out!

And you are deluding yourself if you think a young hot handsome guy with a body to die for would value the "intelligence" and something you refer to as "substance" of an older, less fit farang they would rather not have to spend time with.
It begs the question ' Who is really the unintelligent one in this debate.

Actually A447 I think it boils down as to why you are hiring the boy in the first place.

If (and it's a perfectly legitimate position to take) all the punter is interested in is who sticks their cock where, for how long, and for what price - it's fine to have the discussions you have outlined.

But there are other people (myself included) who are less interested in having the forthcoming events mapped out like a plan of campaign, and take a more "que sera sera" view of sex. If the outcome is not great, one simply moves on with no bad feelings, and no regrets.

Neither way is better or more valid than the other.

[Dodger]

a447 Wrote:


And speaking of being "devalued" "....a prostitute is no more or no less "devalued" than his client.

I think that's the first thing you've said that I can agree with.

Your approach to negotiating sex with prostitutes seems to be working well for you. I also assume from your comments that you are totally at ease with yourself and that your motivation for interacting with the working Thai boys is solely focused on sex, thus the reason for the rationalization you provide for procuring these services much in the same manner that one would purchase a loaf of bread from the local supermarket. If this is all it takes to keep you fulfilled and satisfied in your life then by-all-means don't change a thing.

Personally, I've long held the notion that if someone treats another person as an "object" than he himself becomes an "object"....and it doesn't matter if the other person is a high-level professional in business or a Thai boy working as a prostitiute. To me it simply doesn't matter. I judge a persons value by the value he places in himself - not by how others perceive him because of the money he has or the nature of the work he performs.

Thais have an uncanny ability to see inside a person so there's rarely any confusion on their part regarding the "value" or "substance" of the farang they have just encountered. If they have encountered an "object" (as they so commonly do) the farang will be treated as an object...nothing more -nothing less. If one holds the position that all the Thai boys are interested in is money - it could be because that individual only see's them as sex objects and doesn't deserve anything more than the 30 minutes of sex he just received back in his loom. For some, this is good enough, for me, it's not. I guess that's where we differ.

Also, just as a side-note, you seem to suggest that all farangs are old out of shape creatures and not worthy of a Thai boys true affections. I would suggest that you re-think this, as not all farangs fit that description.

[firecat69]

I think that's the first thing you've said that I can agree with.

Your approach to negotiating sex with prostitutes seems to be working well for you. I also assume from your comments that you are totally at ease with yourself and that your motivation for interacting with the working Thai boys is solely focused on sex, thus the reason for the rationalization you provide for procuring these services much in the same manner that one would purchase a loaf of b


You are a Dreamer Dodger. In Pattaya if you meet a boy at a Club, GoGo Bar, Beer Bar etc, his primary focus is money plain and simple. He needs to pay his rent, eat, help his family etc etc etc.. If there are 2 farangs vying for his attention and one of them is jai dee but rarely takes a boy home because he has limited funds and the other one is known to be a generous tipper but his interest is primarily SEX then in 99% of the cases the boy will leave with the man who has the money.

This is not meant to be a negative comment on the boy. He has a job to do and the focus of that job is money. That said put two farangs in the Bar one of which is known to always tip a boy for sitting with him and treat the boys with respect and frequently offs and the other farang is known to have boys sit with him ask a question or two and fail to tip but again is known as someone who offs and is a fair tipper. Then the boy given the choice will sit with the fariang who shows him the most respect. But if faring #2 is the only choice he will rush to sit with him.

Does that mean I don't think that a boy can come to care deeply about a farang because of an ongoing relationship. No I think it is possible and I think it happens but rarely and in 90% of cases at least in Pattaya that relationship started because of money.

As far as age and bodies etc making any difference to Thai Boys. One of the cultural things of Thais is respect for elders. This allows them to look beyond things like weight and wrinkles etc. Does that mean given the choice the Thai Boy would not choose a Hot 25 year old over a fat 70 year old all other things being equal. Of course not but he does not have that choice . His choice is limited to men either old enough to be his father or grand father or great grand father.

So given those choices , money becomes the deciding factor and if the money is equal then the boy will consider respect, jai dee etc.

[a447]

I am finding this discussion really interesting. I hope we can express our differing ideas on offing boys without resorting to personal insults.


Scottish-guy wrote:
take a more "que sera sera" view of sex. If the outcome is not great, one simply moves on with no bad feelings, and no regrets.

I actually agree with you S-G. If I were living in LOS on a permanent basis, and not just visiting, I would probably take that approach. But I am only there for 2 short weeks at a time and want to make the best of my sex holiday.


Dodger wrote:
your motivation for interacting with the working Thai boys is solely focused on sex,

Well, not solely but primarily


in the same manner that one would purchase a loaf of bread from the local supermarket

Not quite as cold as that. I have been learning to speak Thai - went to classes and all that - in order to communicate with the boys. I love to ask them about their families, hobbies, etc.etc. So no, I don't treat them as objects. I treat them as young guys who experience all the feelings and emotions that I experienced when I was their age. Only their experience is more full on that anything I could imagine. If you were to ask Daboss to talk to his boys (I've "interacted" with many of them), I am sure he would report back to you that I tip them well in the bar, pay them well for services rendered, buy them meals, let them loose in 7/11, etc. Hardly the way I'd treat a loaf od bread :sign5:


If this is all it takes to keep you fulfilled and satisfied in your life

It isn't. Sex is but a small part of my life. But when in LOS, it becomes very important.


I judge a persons value by the value he places in himself

So do I, Dodger. Only problem is the language barrier does not allow me to get inside their heads, so I can only but guess at the value they place in themselves. I would hope that he places the same value in himself as I place in myself, but I just don't know. Sorry.


Thais have an uncanny ability to see inside a person so there's rarely any confusion on their part regarding the "value" or "substance" of the farang they have just encountered. If they have encountered an "object" (as they so commonly do) the farang will be treated as an object...nothing more -nothing less. If one holds the position that all the Thai boys are interested in is money - it could be because that individual only see's them as sex objects and doesn't deserve anything more than the 30 minutes of sex he just received back in his loom. For some, this is good enough, for me, it's not. I guess that's where we differ.

I honestly believe that a gogo boy heading back to the farang's loom couldn't care less about the John's "value" or "substance." He wants someone jai dee, who will pay well and not demand a sex act the boy is not comfortable with.
But that doesn't mean the whole affair has to be cold and emotionless. One of the reasons I like long time is that it gives me the opportunity to chat with the guy, without him looking at his watch and rushing back to the bar for another off. Also, as I think I posted before, I tend to find a boy and off him night after night. That way I can build up some kind of relationship, however superficial, with him as a person. But the language barrier means I can not expect too much in this area, but I keep trying. Over the years I have met some truly wonderful boys, many of whom I have posted about on this board. If you care to go back and look, you will see that I do not treat boys like a "loaf of bread."


you seem to suggest that all farangs are old out of shape creatures and not worthy of a Thai boys true affections.

No, I didn't intend to suggest that at all. That is why I wrote "of an older, less fit farang " rather than "older, less fit farangs." Hey, aren't Beachlover and Bucknaway young, spunky farangs?? (only joking!) I have seen heaps of young, fit, handsome farangs in LOS and have actually posted about them here. As an example, on my last visit to Bangkok I saw a handsome German guy at the entrance of Soi twilight and posted about him. He would certainly be "worthy of a Thai boys true affections."


firecat wrote:
I also assume from your comments that ......your motivation for interacting with the working Thai boys is solely focused on sex

Please see above.


firecat wrote:
Does that mean I don't think that a boy can come to care deeply about a farang because of an ongoing relationship. No I think it is possible and I think it happens but rarely and in 90% of cases at least in Pattaya that relationship started because of money.

Yep.


if the money is equal then the boy will consider respect, jai dee etc.

Spot on.

[Dodger]

a447,

You sound like a good person to me.

I wasn't aware that your visits to LOS were limited to 2 weeks. That being the case I can honestly understand the approach you use a little clearer.

My earlier trips to LOS were short as well and always business related, and I found myself playing the short-time gogo scene much in the same manner that you described. I've never felt inclined to discuss any expectations with the boy I wanted to off - but that's just my personal preference. But in a similar fashion I always treated the boys who worked in the bars with respect and enjoyed buying them drinks and tipped them well...and still do.

I believe I have misjudged you and for that I apologize.

I had a bf once who left the working scene because he hated the work he was doing. We shacked up together for 4 years and are still friends today. During those 4 years he told more stories than I wanted to hear about some of the low-life farangs he had to deal with in the course of his work, and till this day those stories have stayed etched in my mind. I always referred to this boy as "Boy Special" because he is truly special in so many ways. He went on to grace the stage at Tiffany's and has not returned to the working scene to date. My current BF was also a working boy and over the past 8 years with him I have heard similar stories of abuse by seemingly normal everyday farangs, and whenever this topic surfaces and farangs start sounding as if they are control freaks I feel myself shutter...thus the reason for my knee-jerk reaction to your earlier comments.

There are farang out there who truly could care less what the boy they off thinks of them as long as they get the service they expected, and those are the guys who are viewed by the boys as "zeros" and I couldn't agree more. I've always felt that one of the Thai boys biggest handicaps is their wonderful smiles...as they often mask their darkest feelings.

[martin911]

Martin: Your posts were strange but have now moved vinto pervy. Please go back to strange.

Vinto pervy ????

So could explain that for me ?? --new terminolgy for me ??? (then again so was the "tooth pulled today " term ) :snorting:

Then again you didnt bother to reply to other Qs in your post here so i wont hold my breath

No need to get all petty/bitchy here --when YOU asked peoples opinion on your O topic did you not expect there would be replies that may not have agreed with what you did ??

No reason as i said prior to get definsive and insulting with posters who happen to differ from you in your opinion .

[a447]

Thank you for your post, Dodger. You have been magnanimous in a situation where I'm sure many others on this board would not have been.

I can kind of understand your, and people like martin's, view of guys like us. Afterall, you live there and see Thailand and the guys in much more depth. And you've no doubt heard a lot more horror stories about farangs from the boys and seen a lot more misbehaving arseholes over there than I have.

I've just found that chatting to farangs out on the verandah of the Ambience Hotel, or just sitting in bar, most, if not all of the guys are just like me. They seem to be imperfect yet decent enough human beings who are there for a bit of fun and fantasy. Nothing more. Like me they realise how awful the job is for the boys. I don't begrudge them the money I give them, as they are doing something incomprehensible to me. (BTW I think it is easier for a straight guy to have sex with an another guy than it is for a a gay gogo boy.) I admire and respect those who can perform back in the room whilst all the time being friendly and "happy." O.k., I know most of it is an act but I am grateful that they allow me to enjoy my little fantasy of having sex with a spunky hot young Asian guy. Of course, I would like to think the guys genuinely like to be with me and find my company interesting Who knows, some might do but I have few illusions about that.

And yes, Dodger I agree with you about the Thai smile. One can only imagine the misery and disappointment that hides behind many a Thai boys sexy smile. I try not to go there too often.

[arsenal]

Martin: "vinto" was a typo and should of course read into, you can't work that out? Just as I am sure you do know how to spell defEnsive. Pervy, well I think for a man of your age to be asking total strangers about their sexual preferences is rather pervy.
People are of course free to disagree with me, but as for your questions, well it's really none of your business is it? And I would like to state for the record that I am not interested in any of Martin911's sexual shenanigans.

[Dodger]

a447 Wrote:


Afterall, you live there and see Thailand and the guys in much more depth.

I only wish.

Unfortunately I haven't won any big lotteries lately and still work for a living in America. I've managed to balance my lifestyle which allows me to reside in LOS for 6 months out of the year, although still very much have my nose to the grind stone in my work when fun time is over. I'll be returning to Oz next week for my next 3 month R&R.

As far as seeing the guys in more depth...I'm not so sure about that, as you seem to have a pretty good grip on things. If you treat them well - they'll show you a great time. I guess that's all one really needs to know. If the alure is the illusion - then enjoy the illusion to the max. If the illusion one day turns to reality - you'll enjoy it even more. We only pass through this life once.

[alipatt-old]

In thailand the majority would seem to believe you pass through life several times

[colmx]

I think for a man of your age to be asking total strangers about their sexual preferences is rather pervy.

Seems like a bit of a double standard to me...
Its ok to ask a Thai boy their sexual preferences when you are buying them face to face in a gogo bar... or worse still list off what you expect them to do...
but its not ok to ask someone on an anonymous board?

I wouldn't worry about it Colmx - I can't imagine Arsenal (or anybody else in their right mind) wanking off to anything that appears on SGT forum (the recent photo of DaBoss standing provocatively in the doorway of Happy Place, being an exception of course)

Of course! DaBoss

[aot871]

IF after having the same boy for a couple of nights , you decided to have him for the rest of your stay , how much would you then pay him for shell we say a one weeks stay?

IF after having the same boy for a couple of nights , you decided to have him for the rest of your stay , how much would you then pay him for shell we say a one weeks stay?

Well no doubt you'll get the cheap Charlies telling you that you're feeding and watering him - so he ought to be grateful. But my calculation for a week would be: 7 x Long Time rate + 7 x off fee (unless you've negotiated a deal with the bar owner).

Factor in the fact that after 7 days you are officially jai dee and his boyfriend = at least a mobile phone.

:party

After posting the above I found that in the 5.15 @ Ascot today there is a runner called Mr Jay Dee @ 100/1 (on Betfair) !!

Is this kismet?

┬г2.50 each-way - will let you know!

:occasion9:

After posting the above I found that in the 5.15 @ Ascot today there is a runner called [b]Mr Jay Dee
┬г2.50 each-way - will let you know!

I can't wait to see if Jai Dee will make you Dee jai now !!! lol

[arsenal]

Coolmx: If you can't see the difference then I really don't know how to explain it to you, and even if I could I haven't the inclination.

i think martin needs to get back to britain for a while to get back his self worth ... if thats the right word ...
martin you seemed to be one of the better people on the board whien i first came on here .. now it seems you have a gripe with almost anyone who mentions money and boys in the same sentance ...as for having a go at francois .. i dont think hes ever had a bad word to say about anyone one here ....
what you have to realise is most of us come to thailand for a few weeks a year .. as such our reality is that we live our normal working lives maybe a bit different to you ..
if we go out with our mates for a drink we tend to buy rounds .. if we go for a meal we split the bill .. etc etc ..
in your world it seems you have lost the meaning of money.. you pay to have a boyfriend .. you pay to have sex with other guys with your boyfriend .. you pay for any drinks you have in any bars with any boys you have at the table .... it seems to me that your life is all about paying for anything and everything ...
maybe this is why youve never said hello to daboss .. he might want to buy you a drink ... oh my lord ... could you cope if someone was to offer to buy you something .. thats totaly foreign to you now-a-days ... then again im sure you'll tell me different ...

[Dodger]

alipatt Wrtote:


In thailand the majority would seem to believe you pass through life several times

Not actually. The belief is that you pass from one life to the next, thus having lived many lives, although will only experience the life you are currently living once.

Any way you carve the turkey...enjoy this one while it lasts.

[Dodger]

Firecat69 Wrote:


You are a Dreamer Dodger

Absolutely...and with passion.

When I was young I dreamt of becoming totally independent with the abilities to travel the world having people pay me for my keen insight - without a boss to control my life or a schedule to follow which was not carved by my own hand.

I also dreamt of being surrounded by young sexy asian guys (my preference since before birth) to suffocate my deepest passions with tongues like snakes and bodies as smooth as silk. I dreamt of living in a jungle surrounded by unspoiled nature with the boy of my dreams laying naked next to me on a straw mat...eating fresh fruit plucked from a tree right within arms reach...and tossing the peelings in a nearby waterfall where the sounds of the jungle abound and the natives swim naked.

If a person believes in something which does not exist with enough passion - he can create it.

Albert Einstein

[a447]

Colmx wrote:
Its ok to ask a Thai boy their sexual preferences when you are buying them face to face in a gogo bar... or worse still list off what you expect them to do...

Yep. Sure is, especially as it is that very preference you mention that we are all buying - and the very thing he is selling.

So I think it is not only "ok" to ask, it is very imperative to ask so that both of us know what to expect.
And someone selling sex is hardly going to be offended or embarrassed by such a quick question (Can I fuck you?) No long lists required. Top or bottom, that's it for me. And for him, too.
If they are offended, then they are not suited to the job IMHO.

Not all of us are lucky enough to live in LOS and to be in the position of enjoying night in bed with hot Thai guys whenever we want. (If the guy's a dud, never mind, I can try another one tomorrow night. Or the night after. Plenty of time; I'll just put it down to experience and move on.)

It doesn't work like that. You have a luxury most of us don't have - time. If a guy tells me he is a top only, I will buy him a drink, tip him and then bid him a fond farewell and look for someone else. I will do the same if he tells me he's a bottom but I get a feeling that he is just saying that to get offed. No use wasting his time or mine. I've got 2/3 weeks max at a time and want to fuck a guy every night. Afterall, I'm a sex tourist and that's what we do. (Sometimes I'm attracted to a guy who won't bottom and, if I find him attractive in some other way, I'll still off him.)

If I don't ask, what do you suggest I do if, back in the room, he only wants to chuck wow?

I posted a few years ago about a boy I met at Boysbangkok. I had arrived in BKK late and had rushed off to the bar to find a partner of the night. A guy approached me, so I asked him to sit down and bought him a drink. I decided I'd off him
"Just one moment. I telephone my wife."
I thought he was joking.
Back in the room, not only would he not let me fuck him, he wouldn't samoke me, I couldn't samoke him. I ended up paying (the agreed) 3000 baht for a chuck wow!!!
See? That's why I now ask.

[Dodger]

a447 Wrote:


I ended up paying (the agreed) 3000 baht for a chuck wow!!!
See? That's why I now ask

3,000 baht for a short time...and you settled on this amount with the boy before hand????????????????

Maybe if you wouldn't have discussed the tip or your explicit expectations before hand he may have performed as you would have desired.

If you read back some of the responses to this topic from expats and long-stay visitors they state that they are rarely disappointed with a boys service and avoid talking about money or expectations before the interaction. I myself, as stated earlier, agree wholeheartedly with this approach. You may want to evaluate your approach based on the sound advice your receiving.

My advice...as others have stated in different ways...is to just be yourself. When you find a boy you like and the chemistry feels right just take him off and have a good time. If a person treats these interactions as pure business deals - then they have to expect the inevitable - and that's that some business deals just turn sour.

Back in the room, not only would he not let me fuck him, he wouldn't samoke me, I couldn't samoke him.

My god that must be the first guy I know in the WORLD who on having a raging hard on and lying on top of a bed, alone with just one other person, WOULDN'T let them suck him off ! Now that's what I call dedication to the wife - the poor bugger !!! lol

Oh and yes have to agree with the others, if your strategy is negotiation before hand and that's the outcome then I hate to break it to you but it SO isn't working and needs looked at - hell for 3000 baht you could suck MY dick !! :-) lol (ok that last bit was a joke and was purely to make the point.......as for the record I charge WAY less than 3000 baht !! lol )

[joe552]

NIrish Guy, you know you'll now have to post pictures before anyone takes up your offer? :hah:

NIrish Guy, you know you'll now have to post pictures before anyone takes up your offer? :hah:

ha ha unfortunately I think publication of the former would put paid to any chances of the latter ! lol

[joe552]

I don't know - there are some on here who aren't too choosy. Take a chance - you know you're worth it :occasion9:

[christianpfc]

Not all of us are lucky enough to live in LOS and to be in the position of enjoying night in bed with hot Thai guys whenever we want. (If the guy's a dud, never mind, I can try another one tomorrow night. Or the night after. Plenty of time; I'll just put it down to experience and move on.)

It doesn't work like that. You have a luxury most of us don't have - time.
Exactly my point. Paying a dud or liar the full tip doesn't make a differnce for us money-wise (by European / US-American standards), but you lose a day of your holiday! I agree with the rest of your post as well.

I do not discuss money or service in advance, and I dislike if boys talk about money in advance. But for those who have exact ideas of what they want it's totally acceptable by my standards to discuss this in detail and reduce the tip if problems arise.

[Dodger]

I think you may be forgetting that the issue that sparked this post wasn't about a guy who messed up and didn't make his expectations clear, it's about a guy who didn't have his expectations met even after telling the boy exactly what he expected.

This is Thaland, and just because a Thai shakes his head "yes" doesn't always mean "yes". All it means is that they are hearing you.

There are far better methods of foreplay than reciting a list of things that make you feel good that you expect, but at this point I think I'll let you figure that one out for yourself.

Good luck.

[martin911]

Martin: "vinto" was a typo and should of course read into, you can't work that out? Just as I am sure you do know how to spell defEnsive. Pervy, well I think for a man of your age to be asking total strangers about their sexual preferences is rather pervy.
People are of course free to disagree with me, but as for your questions, well it's really none of your business is it? And I would like to state for the record that I am not interested in any of Martin911's sexual shenanigans.

Arse
-- - lol u are now reduced to correcting my spelling for a reply back --u sad TxxT etc etc

What are you droning on about with Pervy ????--- talking to complete strangers about sex/ sharing sex stories on a GAY (penny drop yet ?? ) forum is what most/all members do posting here !!-
((Although myself im only on here because Im waiting for the swapping recipes/knitting patterns section to open -- i not like that nasty sex stuff myself :happy7: u did promise me that Neal :laughing3: ))

SO i said something in reply to your opening post that you didnt like-- so there is this tit for tat etc :sleepy1: - i really dont know (or want to be arsed --hehe excuse the pun ) to say back to you anymore -except this -- put me on IGNORE and Pxxs Off -- :pottytrain2:

[martin911]

IF after having the same boy for a couple of nights , you decided to have him for the rest of your stay , how much would you then pay him for shell we say a one weeks stay?

I think most / if not all of the Thai boys that i know would be very happy with 10,000 B for that arrangement !!!!( plus a few bits and pieces during the week-stuff from stalls etc )

And keep an eye on their facebook pages in the weeks that follow that week -- chances are that a photo of the actual money you give the lad will appear somewhere there
I have seen the guys doing that a fair bit !!-- its like a kudos type of thing

Have a lot fun :wav:

[martin911]

Arse -- look !! Another 3rd consecutive post-- OMG 5555555555555555

Brit twit -- I dont come from britain !! (thank fuck )


I dont wish to gripe ( or moan for the Sake of moaning etc --i leave that to the old farts on GBs board -although there is a few on here as well !! )) with someone when the topic of guys /money comes up !!

What i try to post about is aimed in such a way that the farang takes as much care of the Thai boy as can be done -- i do this because i have experienced firsthand (similar to what Dodger said prev ) seeing what way some farang ( not all of course ) treat/ or think they should treat the working boys -- some of it is downright horrible ( il post one example later mabye )

That is my primary Aim if i am repling to somebody where money is been talked about -- i dont apoligise for it -- these guys are all in an inferior position to all us farang -- i just wish for people to be fair to them !! and the odd 500b here or there means MUCH more to the Thai boy than to the farang --

--Most of them are really sweet guys doing something (for whatever their reasons might be -- with laziness being one ) that is not naturally appealing to them --
But even if the farang might be older/fatter than they might wish for in a sexual partner it DOES NOT mean that they dont like it --cert if the thai is a natural bottom !!
I know lots of boys that enjoy themselves with farang -- If you are kind and respectful with them you will get repaid by the bucket --1000%
It sometimes breaks my heart when i see reactions from some of them when the smallest thing can make them so happy !!--
So Bt thats the reply to the gripe thing in your post

The meaning of money thing you refer too ---- Lad Its THAILAND(or rather the Pattaya/Silom part )-not all Thai is like this for sure -- And thats what happens HERE --the farang pays --its that simple --if as a farang you dont like that style then fuck off to somewhere else -
Like Manila for example -- its cert not like the" all about money style" like in Thailand
But if you are in Ptt/Silom thats what happens - live with it or dont go there if you dont like that style
You say I pay to have a boyfriend -- Fuck if i was straight id be paying to have a WIFE -- And if i can make a difference to a persons life -- a guy(that i really like to be with /have so much fun w him /new experiences etc )--that by paying for him to go to UNI /hopefully getting a degree and then hopefully getting a good job re what his life might be like without it -- -- For me that will make me very happy

You say i pay guys to have sex w us -- NOT als my dear brit t - when you get out of the ptt/sil areas thats NOT what happens --
But i understand why you might think like that when you are only going to Thai for short periods --
Re not me not saying hello to Neal (hadnt realised it was an issue ) - no idea what point you are trying to make w that -- and i actually havent seen him for id say 4 odd months to say hello too !!-- but il give him a big slobby kiss when i do --happy with that Brit ??

RE me being "one of the better persons on the board when u joined " hahaha :notworthy: :notworthy:
But now im not !!Why i wonder :idea1:
Anything to do with the Hero post last week when we exchanged a few "ideas "
LOL bit like Arse in this topic --so you know what !! have a quick look at the last few lines 2 posts ago

And
DITTO :occasion9:

[arsenal]

Martin: Well I did say that you could go back to strange. It's better than pervy. Keep up the good work.

Well I guess not everyone can have the same opinion.
I am all for discussing with the boys that I take what I like, desire and how much I am willing to pay. For the most part I have not experienced too many that have renegged on the deal in the room and this way I feel that they have the chance to back out of the discussion before I take them home.
While some may consider this a little bit more cold and the same as mapping out directions, I find that it leaves little roomk for misunderstandings such as, is this all you gonna give me? or well I don't know and play around with the TV and their mobile and then someone calls and they are more interested in rushing through this than taking care of what we discussed.
I have been coming to Pattaya 11 years and in the beginning there were disappointments. After a few years I decided to do it this way and I don't have any regrets. :sumo:

[martin911]

Martin: Well I did say that you could go back to strange. It's better than pervy. Keep up the good work.


Will do :occasion9:

and you also

er not really anything to do with the hero post atall martin ... i try not to carry a row from one post to another .. i find it gets a bit silly ... as i mentioned to you before about newalen following me from post to post ...
dont quite get the im in pattaya so i pay for everything thing tho ... im sure there are many expats who live as equals rather than feeling the need to be the main man ...
but if thats your style then carry on im sure all the thai boys love your money as much as you do ...

[a447]

Dodger wrote:
3,000 baht for a short time...and you settled on this amount with the boy before hand????????????????

Yep. But let's put it in context. It was 6 years ago, I think. In those days I didn't have any idea what to pay. Now, of course, I know a lot better!


Maybe if you wouldn't have discussed the tip or your explicit expectations before hand he may have performed as you would have desired.

No, this is what happened when I didn't specify what I wanted. If he had told me he was only going to chuck wow, I would not have offed him. The last thing I want to do is fly all the way to LOS for a wank!!
As I said, I was inexperienced and just thought all guys would at least participate in samoking. Bottoming, of course, is a different story. I understand that.


NIrishguy wrote:
if your strategy is negotiation before hand and that's the outcome then I hate to break it to you but it SO isn't working and needs looked at

Yeah, as I said, I didn't negotiate. I foolishly thought he'd perform basic things in bed. And I foolishly thought I must have misheard him when he said he'd call his wife first. :sign5: What a dickhead! (Me, not him)


justme wrote:
I am all for discussing with the boys that I take what I like, desire and how much I am willing to pay. For the most part I have not experienced too many that have renegged on the deal in the room and this way I feel that they have the chance to back out of the discussion before I take them home.
While some may consider this a little bit more cold and the same as mapping out directions, I find that it leaves little roomk for misunderstandings such as, is this all you gonna give me? or well I don't know and play around with the TV and their mobile and then someone calls and they are more interested in rushing through this than taking care of what we discussed.
I have been coming to Pattaya 11 years and in the beginning there were disappointments. After a few years I decided to do it this way and I don't have any regrets.

Exactly my sentiments. And my experience. Over the years I have offed so many guys I've totally lost count, but amongst all of them, there have only been a few duds - usually it's been my fault becasue I did not specify what I wanted beforehand. I tend to blame myself, rather than the boy in this case.

Martin, you make some excellent points. I've also noticed that bottoms seem to enjoy being fucked. I think I posted about a couple of guys who came in the middle of the deed without touching their cocks. The guys I spent so much time with back in January told me he liked the way I fucked him because I wasn't rough. Maybe it isn't always an act they put on. And you are right when you say most of them are sweet guys. In fact, the nicest guys of all seem to be the straight ones. I've offed lots of boys from Happy Place - all straight - and they've been great company. Polite, friendly and heaps of personality. It's the chemistry thing you were talking about Dodger.

..... I've also noticed that bottoms seem to enjoy being fucked....

Hey, Sherlock !

:evil4:

[Dodger]

a447 Wrote


In fact, the nicest guys of all seem to be the straight ones. I've offed lots of boys from Happy Place - all straight - and they've been great company.

That explains it.

I thought I was observing a trend between two different styles of interactions with the working boys - and now it's becoming clear that the trend is in fact between those who choose to interact with str8 boys versus gay boys...and has nothing whatsoever to do with the length of a person stay in LOS or the manner in which they request the service.

This is very significant as related to this topic because if you prefer topping str8 boys you would most definately want to communicate your expections before taking him off. To imagaine, even in your wildest dreams, that a str8 boy would want to be topped by a farang is the most pronounced defnition of delusion, as one would expect that they will do everything in their power to avoid being topped if possible. It's also logical that farang who prefer topping str8 boys are the most vulnerable at being disappointed in bed. regardless is there stay in LOS is for 2 days...2 weeks...2 months, or 2 years.

a447, if you would have stated from the beginning that you are here for a limited time - prefer fucking str8 boys - and feel the need to communicate your expectations openly with them before the service is provided, I for one would have understood you very clearly.

[a447]

No, Dodger, I don't fuck the straight guys! (I wish!!!) They are the very guys I referred to in an earlier post in the thread


(Sometimes I'm attracted to a guy who won't bottom and, if I find him attractive in some other way, I'll still off him.)

I still find something attractive about them and am happy if, once in a while, I do something other than top them. I am, indeed, attracted by the chemistry. Often they are the type of guy who loves to chat.

My type of boy is hard to find - a gay boy (who I can fuck) but he must be totally masculine. No fems welcome here! (If I want a girl, I'll go to Walking Street!) These guys look totally straight, but they're not. As they are a bit rare, if I find one during my bar-hopping I tend to off him night after night. Obviously, I need to ask these guys in the bar if they will bottom, as they look as though they won't. I've been very pleasantly surprised over the years when they've said it was ok to fuck them. Problem is, often when I return to LOS, the boy has moved on.

One such boy worked at Krazy Dragon. You'd never know he was gay, but he LOVED to be fucked and was very passionate in bed. I offed him many times over the years. Alas, he has since gone to live with his farang boyfriend. :(

If I can't off a masculine looking guy, then I'll settle for someone slightly fem. But the screaming fems leave me cold, even though there would be no need to ask them if they bottomed.

[pennyboy]

I am nether an expat nor long stay but just a frequent visitor. As i said before I have no problem defining my expectations before offing. There is a big difference between not fulfilling all my expectations and just lying like a rag doll. If it is the former I can still have a good time although I would be unlikely to repeat. To suggest that agreeing up front is more likely to lead to a disappointing time is total nonsense. If I listened to some of the expats I know I would be paying less to the boys as they often tell me that I am spoiling it for the expats. I generally pay 1000st and 1500lt plus if warranted.I am told I should never pay more that 700/1000. It is not always better to listen to the expats ot long stayers.
And for Martin. I note you are not a Brit. All I can say is.... thank fuck.

[martin911]

A447
LOL we seem to have very similar taste in guys !! (but for me the guy has to be slim as well as masculine )
And those guys are not easy to find for sure (and even more so in Pattaya than Bkk)
But i normally dont target straights to bring home --i find it too frustrating --(although there is the extra challenge in getting them to bottom to make it more interesting !! )
Colmx the current challange is now running at 8 weeks + :scratch:

I also will settle for a guy that might be slightly fem if the slim masc type is nowhere to be found !! --BUT my BF has even strictor tastes than me -- he will not entertain any boy that is the slightest bit Toot (as they call it themselves ) (yet his best friend in Pattaya is toot 1000%)

Gets a bit embarrassing in my place at times if we invited a guy over from GR (that we did not know ! ) -- if the guy was a little toot when he arrived to the house --my guy wont play !!
I have heard him grill guys on the phone as to whether there are T or not !!

Britthai --
I dont seem to be understanding your drift re the money thing either -

You said at first that it seems i had lost the meaning of money--and that i pay for anything and everything --
And i responded along the lines of thats the system in Patt/Silom --the farang pays !! --does anybody else disagree with that id be interested to know ?

Mabye i should have also said to you that if i am out in the company of other farang /or Thai guys (non working boys ) then we all share the various check bins !!!! but when i am out on my own yes it is myself that pays for all -- is there another way that you want to share with me ??

When i travel elsewhere ( for work / or fun ) I do as you mentioned what you do -- ie -- share

When you say there are many expats who live as equals --are you ref as equals to working boys ??

And yes of course the thais love my money - (just like they love yours/colmx's or any other board members) -i am under NO illusions as regards that and have Never claimed different --
And in returm myself /colmx plus others have a lot of fun and interaction with the guys --

[martin911]

Penny -- you wont find many that do !!

[a447]

Martin wrote:
we seem to have very similar taste in guys !! (but for me the guy has to be slim as well as masculine )

Yep, must be slim and masculine and handsome and jai dee and have a big cock. Other than that, I'm not particularly fussy.


yes of course the thais love my money..........And in returm myself /colmx plus others have a lot of fun and interaction with the guys --

You sure won't get any argument with me on that one Martin!

[Dodger]

I met a boy during my last visit who had just arrived on the scene. He was nervous as hell, shy to the bone, completely out of his element, and everyone including the bar manager knew it. I motioned him off the stage - ordered a few drinks - and spent an hour chatting with him. When I asked the waiter for the check bin the boy asked me where I was going. I told him I just wanted to walk around town and visit a few beer bars - as gogo bars get a bit boring for me. He asked if I wanted to take him off. I said that would be great, but I just wanted to have a good time and didn't plan on going back to my room until later and he gladly accepted the offer.

We immediately linked up with a group of my old Thai friends and ended up at Dave Man's Club and had a blast. When we left the club I handed each of my friends 300 baht and slipped him 1,000 bt and told him I really enjoyed his company. He seemed startled and asked me why I didn't want him to go back to my room with me. I just said "up to you". When we got into bed I responded to another similar question by saying "up to you" again... and he responded by showing me exactly what it was that he "was up to" and there were no complaints from yours truly.

When I returned to the bar the next evening the bar manager, who is a long time friend, asked me how I enjoyed my time with the boy. I told him I had a great time. He looked stunned and went on to say that he was considering firing the boy because of complaints he had received from several customers during the boys first week at work - centered on the fact that the boy just wouldn't perform for them.

With my bf still being locked up in the monkey house I spent my last stay avoiding repeat interactions with the boys - and just preferred keeping things casual, although I couldn't resist seeing this boy a dozen more times during my stay. I went into this situation EXPECTING nothing...and he gave me EVERYTHING...and that's intended to be taken quite literally.

I just slammed the office door shut...cleared out the fridge...and grabbed my trusty backpack off the shelf in preparation for my launch back to LIFE in LOS which will commence 20 hours from now. I avoid things like computers, the internet, or any other modern gizmo which clutters my free space during my adventures - so I'll chat with you maniacs again in 3 months time.



mai pen rai

Have a good one!

:hello2:

[martin911]

Dodger ive done similar to you a few times -- take off a lad from the bar and where i tell the lad i just wanted to have some fun ,for him to enjoy himself ---and he could do whatever he wanted later --and so we started the nite like that !!!

i love seeing the look of suprise on their faces -- and a lot of times i also was not dissappointed with the outcome --and i am good friends with some that i still see around !!

Now im well aware that is more suited to doing if a person has the time in pattaya to do that !!

Brithai --one thing struck me today re your post on money to me -- I hadnt realised you had taken up the vacant preachers role that had been left unused by the untimley dep of our beloved Beachy !!!

You should have told me --i would have gone to the ceremony .

[joe552]

martin, sorry to bring it back to cash again, but as a 1 time a year visitor I'm never sure what is 'right' and 'wrong' when it comes to money. If I off a boy and say to him "up to you" what we do for the evening, I would expect to pay for whatever he chooses (I've always found it hard to get them to make a choice). So say we have dinner, go to a club and back to the hotel. I've paid all the bills - what would I be expected to tip? Long time 1500? Short time 1000? I no longer have the boy stay overnight - I can't sleep if there's someone in the bed.

I'm not trying to be cheap, but it's the tip at the end I sometimes get wrong. I'd appreciate your advice.

[colmx]

I
I just slammed the office door shut...cleared out the fridge...and grabbed my trusty backpack off the shelf in preparation for my launch back to LIFE in LOS which will commence 20 hours from now.

Haha its funny how Dodger and I always seem to head to LOS around the same time...

I have just finished packing my bag (40 hours early - but have learned with my job to be prepared early as i will probably end up going straight from work to the airport on thursday!)

Dodgers post kinda reminds me of the start of an episode of the Mission Impossible, all the guys are doing their own thing all over the world when they get the call.
They then drop everything and jump on the next plane to meet up at the rendevous and start their mission !

This message will self destruct in 5 seconds.... :tif:

I

I have just finished packing my bag (40 hours early

Well seeing as your doing SO well there Colmx don't suppose there's any chance of nipping up here and finishing my packing is there as I've been at it for three days now and still so far have done nothing more than slung a few tee shirts in a case and looked at everything else with apathy - and I leave first thing tomorrow morning !! lol

So, that's YOUR mission should you chose to accept it so that this special agent can start his not so secret mission too !! lol

[colmx]

I left half my clothes with BF to take care of back in Jan... but despite that i still can't fit everything into my suitcase...

Looks like nobody in pattaya will be getting an easter egg his year!

Holy crap i just realised that i didn't pack any condoms or lube either... they are usually one of the first things to get packed.... and i won't have room for a fleshlight either (it went down very well on the last trip - literally and figuratively!)

Glad to say I've just finished :-) And the condoms, lube, poppers (yes I know before anyone says) and a ridiculous amount of viagra WERE one of the first things to go in .....actually come to think of it looking in my case I think that's about ALL I packed !! lol

And for once I'm delighted that even though my case is bulging at the seams it came in at spritely 22.5 Kilos ( and knowing just how bad I am at packing I'd already pre-booked 23kgs for my flights ! :-)......mind you looking at my hand luggage I think it probably weighs about the same again unfortunately :-( !!

Still at least this way it lets me know I'm right on the edge weight wise for coming home which is a GREAT excuse for not having to bring any of the much flaunted CRAP that people try to sell to us when we're there ! lol

NI theres no need to pack poppers not only is it illegal in thai .. and you never know who might want to look in your bag .. its also very easy to get on jomtien beach ... just look for the fat miserable looking thai ...

Dodger ive done similar to you a few times -- take off a lad from the bar and where i tell the lad i just wanted to have some fun ,for him to enjoy himself ---and he could do whatever he wanted later --and so we started the nite like that !!!

i love seeing the look of suprise on their faces -- and a lot of times i also was not dissappointed with the outcome --and i am good friends with some that i still see around !!

Now im well aware that is more suited to doing if a person has the time in pattaya to do that !!

Brithai --one thing struck me today re your post on money to me -- I hadnt realised you had taken up the vacant preachers role that had been left unused by the untimley dep of our beloved Beachy !!!

You should have told me --i would have gone to the ceremony .

now that is funny as i was going to mention to you about becoming the minister for working boys in pattaya ... as it seems you care more about them and how much they earn than anyone ive ever meet ...
now im all for them earning as much as they can .. and id like to think i treat them all with respect .. but as others have said .. if the boys dont do as they have siad they would then unlike you i see no reason to give them all they where told they would get ...
2 reasons for this ....
1 is they have not earnt or deserved it ... is that 2 already ?
2 it just encourages them to do the same over and over ... so i dont belive its a good idea unlike yourself to just say oh well im rich your poor .. here have it ... amen.

[martin911]

Joe -- that " up to you" thai thing drives me nuts !!--and ya your right in that its so damm difficult to get them to make a decision

My little demon of a BF was very shy (waay more than normal ) when i met him first -- one of the things i tried with him to be more confident was every now and then i would say too him was " tonite/today you boss me "
I explained to him that he would make ALL the choices in what we did from getting out of bed in the morning to returning back again (i never let him be boss in bed -- he has a rather unhealthy interest in sadism )
So many times i would be standing in a store/taxi/songtaew etc looking at him --and waiting lol-- and he was so undecisive ---- bit of craic tho

Re the money thing --- i usually tip 1200/1300 shortime and 1500-2000(if really good fun was had ) longtime -- i find it keeps them happy and i never get asked more !!
I dont change that if the guy was good or bad -- life is too short --and i dont discuss much in the bar apart to the mamasan- 1 is the boy gay ,2 can he do everything (i would never discuss this with the boy in bar ) mind you that bar info is obselete --i havnt offed a boy from a bar in a fair while (year+ at least ) --(apart from taking friends off to go out for the nite -)I prefer to meet guys in clubs or online
We all have different systems !!
1 guy on GR last nite asked me for 50,000 --when i queried it he said 100,000 --better bring the piggybanks lads for all those that are heading to LOS in the near future -- ---fuck for that money id put myself out for the odd trick

[joe552]

martin, maybe that guy was talking Vietnamese Dong? Even NIrish Guy is cheaper than that. :occasion9:

Well, it's obvious there are no hard and fast rules, so I'll just play it be ear again. Haven't had any boy refuse a 2nd night out with me.

[martin911]

Britthai

And is there something wrong with having a caring attitude (to put a label on it ) towards the working guys here ??
I treat anybody that i meet with a certain amount respect - good manners never costs any money i was taught as a young lad

A hell of a lot of them didnt excactly have the upbringing that we take mostly for granted in our smug western world -- and they cert are not like some of the scum that comprises a lot of the western youth nowadays --



Why are you harping on and on and on about how i choose to treat people i meet ??? ( Quiet frankly its NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS )



In your post you say like to think that you treated them all with respect -- But thats only (as you say) " if they have earnt or deserved it " (classy that )


And Back to This again :sleepy1: --
So you dont believe it a good idea to pay the agreed amount for the required services agreed upon if it doesnt stack up---- thats your prerogative BT

Do you not think that the amounts of money thats the differential between them earning/deserving it to deducting an amount if they fail in some way is Hardly Worth getting excited over --what is it 500 odd B , big deal !! give them a few sharp words if need be on their way out or whatever -- life is too short --where the fuck else are you going to get the kind of guys that are here in Thailand with the setups of the bars/clubs/entertainment etc --thats why we all fucking fly here rem ??

I dont bother going that road making it all clinical like with /prices /sexual services (,kinda sets a bit of a neg tone in my mind ) --id much rather have the boy sharing a few laughs with me on the way home
But each to their own -- a few have posted that that they dont get into specifics in a bar --all have said they rarely had dissapointments -- -so it works for some !!

And i cert dont think along the lines of "im rich your poor here have it !! --

[martin911]

Joe

Thats it exactly it in a nutshell --no hard or fast rules --just go with the flow -- and have fun :happy7:

And no boy refused a second nite with you --then you "farang jai dee " not farang jai lai " And thats good !! -(or your good in bed!! )

And you would be surprised the amount of times ive seen boys refusing to be with a farang for second or subsquent "dates !--

[martin911]

DaBoss should be happy to see yet another thread heading towards the double figure count !! (with no Beachy also !! )--the board is busy its looking like !!

[joe552]

martin, I would be surprised that boys refuse to go with farangs a 2nd time - didn't think they could afford to be that picky. but treating them with respect and having fun seems to work for me.

irony irony everywhere .. i was also brought up well .. so FUCK OFF if you dont like it ... classy too i see ...
most of your posts tend to read the same now martin ... 130 posts and no beachy to be seen .. he dont need to be now .. your doing fine without him ...
bty i dont care how you treat the boys you so love ... i only mentioned it because as i said before .. you never seem to fail mentioning it ..
you really need to read what people write .. i dont think i said i give them what was agreed ... then didnt because ...
try to read whats written ... its not hard ... tho i guess you may have again been out and gotten pissed up again ...
wait till you sober up then read it again ... ok
p.s ever heard the expression if you cant take it dont give it ?? you seem fine slagging people off most of the time
but soon as anyone answers you off the handle you go ... do try not to get so het up dear .. your make up might start to run

[martin911]

martin, I would be surprised that boys refuse to go with farangs a 2nd time - didn't think they could afford to be that picky. but treating them with respect and having fun seems to work for me.

For a period of 10 months last i had 2 guys (bar boys ) sharing a room in my place !!
I saw them turning down via GR /FB farangs they had been with before -for various reasons-(not all to do with farang being bad to them) and heard them in house talking re the Bar about also refusing to go with a repeat customers

And to be honest Thai bar boys in the main are v lazy -- and dont really do plans for the future - so if they had money in pocket (they lived and eat here free No need to comment Preacherman --not your business !! ) - ) they would not go back to work til such ran out

Re rejected farang --
( ye know who ye are on this board ) -theres a new idea -- a naming and shaming list --with monthly brown envelopes (any fecking colour really ) to Martin to avoid publication !!

[colmx]

I had a boy refuse to join me for a drink in MicMy back in September
At first i was a bit put out, especially as the waiter made a big show over his refusal

Later as i was in the toilet the boy followed me over... told me he was scared of my BF and didn't want to be killed by him!
When i explained that my BF and I were in an open relationship he snuck up behind my seat and became really huggy and unfortunately very feminate...
So an off was def not on the cards...

Next day i went back he was sitting on stage looking in the mirror and putting on make up...

Thank heavens he refused to sit next to me first time around!

[martin911]

Brit -- as i said to you before if you dont like what i write (and it doesnt seem you do because you seem to keep harping on and on about what i write ) DONT READ IT




And now you say you are able to tell me my posts are now all the same (thats rich coming from somebody that hardly ever posts anything original lol ) so you must be reading the damm things SOOO--AS i said before put me on ignore --prob solved

Oh and the standard you must have gone out and your pissed line -- so thats why i didnt read your words properly etc bla bla
I read your post lad --so you Didnt in fact say the words "if they EARNED or DESERVED" the money -???- interesting choice of words from somebody who likes to think he respects the guys -- not words id use myself mind you --- but each to his own as they say
I havent left the house all evening and am not pissed as you think lad - (saving my energies for Colmx's arrival -) LOL hence the long posts !!!!!

Who is het up / or going off the handle ??? --over a few words on an internet forum !! HaHa you imagination is in overdrive methinks -- im happy with what i do or write!! --and im cert not going to get het up over a bit of bantering with you (just like i didnt on the Hero post rem hehe) :blackeye:

You are the one who took it upon himself to preach to me etc - re my self worth etc -- its none of your fucking business lad --but you obs didnt like to be told that infact it was none of your business -same as what you do in your life is none of mine !! --- Which is why i did not start preaching to you about what you do -- (or how you spend your money or treat people )

And IF as you say i "never fail to mention how i treat the guys i love here " so damm what-!!- why the feck does it bother you???-(be diff if i was treating them the way LatinP claimed -then i could understand if you stuck your beak in -) -
I am only chatting on here and sharing experiences of what i do -- if you dont want to read about stuff like that - -- DONT -- SIMPLE

I asked you a question before -- is it wrong to have caring attitude to the working guys here ??? --
Yes some of them are hardened individuals (hardened by the system here)who may try to milk the system --but the vast majority are just sweet natured guys doing what they have to do to survive -- i really dont get where you are coming from if i chose to spend money /time /whatever on them
I get back plenty (not just in a sexual sense )from what i chose to do -thanks

And "if you cant take it dont give it " -- i have no problem with that !! its only banter at the end of the day !!
And the other drivel u spouted --- " soon as someone ans me off the handle i go " Do I ?? Really ,i didnt know that !! thanks for the info - il have to watch myself so --

Oh and on your first line in your above post re " being brought up well or whatever" -- it doesnt mean you CANT say Fuck Off -- a little reality would not go amiss (rem the ignore button -then you need not have to suffer me again !)

Im guessing im still falling down your list from being one of the "better guys on the board when you joined" ?? :occasion9:
take care BT

you cant stop doing it can you ... be original show me how ... talk about daveman club again .. bugger youve had 15 hreads on that one ....
ok if you dont like it dont read it .. who says i dont like it .. i find you quite amusing in your own little way ... you do realise everything you tell me to do is what you do yourself .. dont you ??
you didnt ever get it when latin spelt porsch like that .. did you ?? if you knew how daft you make yourself look lad im sure you wouldnt post anywhere near as much as you do ... as i say irony irony everywhere
if you dont like what i write .. dont read it . twatybolox .. have a nice day ...

[martin911]

LOL-- Good so you havnt put me on ignore --i think id miss our little chats --seriously -- as we say across the water from ye -its only a bit of craic

And if i look daft now and again -- no worries --its hardly the end of the world now is it -- id hate to be called bitchy or suchlike

Ok il make a note not to talk about Dave again --Bt says ive 15 threads on it (??? ) so time to stop !!

You also have a wonderful day -- but is it not a bit early in the day for SGF ????

I do agree with you tho when you say there is irony irony everywhere - yup def is

cheers :notworthy:

[a447]

I can't believe it's my turn to say this.

Ready?

Butterfly

TIME TO MOVE THIS THREAD TO THE GLOBAL FORUM FIGHTING THREAD!!!!

:wav:

[martin911]

Now A447 no need for that all !!
To move it to the fighting section??-- sure its only a - ahem "harmless " :evil4: bit of banter

Still has content in there re the opening topic -- - there are just a few different views on what people think the guys" deserve "and if it was" earned " to get for their preformance in bed

LOL you and i alone could prob add anpther 5 pages on just whether renting a guys body for a period of time is a business deal or not !! :dontknow: --and if we all thought the same the world would be a boring place indeed .

It might even put a smile on Daboss's face were he to see the thread growing even more pages --its all about numbers i gather on sites like this which makes them profitable or not ?? :dontknow: :dontknow:
There didnt seem to be anything with his caustic wit earlier today (or black humour mabye !! )

So in keeping with the opening topic how many is most boys one would have Offed in the same nite -- for me i believe it was 4

This little question is not open to you Colmx --you are not normal !! :evil4:

[Wesley]

I really dislike calling anyone an urchin much less a street urchin if he owned a bike. I notice the word was used often. Maybe one has been much to long well off and maybe has never had a time when he might have been considered an URCHIN.

This does not mean I dislike you boss, only it carries with it a certain connotation to me that maybe it does not to you..

Wes

[francois]

For sure you have a way with words Wesley whatever it was you wrote.

Maybe that will put a merciful end to this thread?

[latintopxxx]

Martin...relax..take a pill or two..just because you get love confused with rent a boy...don't take it out on everyone else...stop lashing out..you might snap your handbag's strap.....silly dear!!

[martin911]

Oh Latin just stick to the boys you rent will ya -- no need to start with the" advice "lol

Now the pervert is becoming an agony aunt --Only in Thailand