When attending Temple ceremonies - do YOU join in or not ?

I just been reading a book about a farang who went to the temple with his Thai girlfriend etc and how he joined in with all the activities such as lighting incense, praying, giving money to the monks, lighting candles, washing / dressing the statues etc etc... the whole nine yards and in fact doing just as everyone else around him was doing ( I should add he'd only been in thailand two weeks at this point so perhaps was just caught up in the moment or perhaps just didn't know any better not too!) and I thought to myself "why would you do that" you're not Buddhist !! (as he'd already stated in the book that he wasn't.)

So can I ask ( if it's not a personal question) so what do / would you all do if you go with your guy to his temple..... do you join in with him in everything that's going on so as to perhaps not look out of place (or maybe because you just like doing stuff too and get "something" from it ) or do you just sit there quietly and respectfully taking it all in until the ceremony is over ....and also do the Thai's have a view on this and do they wonder what us "stupid farang" are doing joining in with their ceremonies (or not) that they know we know very little about or could they just not care less either way perhaps ?

[martin911]

I spent 2,5 years with one guy as Bf and another 9/10 months with my current Bf -- i must have met the 2 most unholiest (if thats even a proper phrase ) guys in my time here !!!
Id say i went to the temple with the first guy 3/4 times -- and he never went much outside those times --
When i did go with him he encouraged me to join in him what he was doing -didnt seem much too it -bit of kneeling ,flowers garland/offering ,incence and a little bit of gold flake - that guy is a complete extrovert so i wasnt suprised with him wantin me to do as he did --

It was als at Wat Chai we went to so there was als other farang doing similar so it didnt seem out of place -- and ive gone in myself alone (but didnt do anything ,just stood quietly --
I found it nice to do this ,im not religious but i still found some good out of doing it (its the Catholic guilt thing mabye )
I went another time to the funeral of one of the ladyboys from tiffaney (N worked there as male dancer )
that was a pretty glamed up affair --but again it was something that was different to see --that time i was about the only farang there --and i got a few looks from people if my guy wasnt sitting w me (as in what the f was a farang there for )



The second guy only in the last week has being going to the temple a little (and wants me to go with him some day )and i never saw or heard much about temple going before that
What is reg for the average Thai re temple going ??

He got a phone call from mama a few weeks ago she had been to some palm reader (i dont know correct phrase) -- all doom ,so many males in the family were going to die etc and possibly he was next -- -- it upset him a lot !!
It upset me too that mama called with this type of news -- he is a complete introvert ,terribly shy when i first met him , and lacking in self confidence --
and he has changed a lot since we met ,so i dont like to see anything that will give him cause to worry any more -- as he says himself "i think too much" --
He said he had to do this temple thing for a week (anybody know on that?? ) i saw him do 2 days ,caught him out in a lie on the third day and it stopped !!!,but ive a feeling it will happen again tmoro -he went with another friend today to one of those palm readers -and is out of sorts again !!

But my advice to anybody (for whats its worth ) is to go if you are invited - and do as you would in any religious place --be respectful
Now im aware that my experiences were Pattaya only --in the rural areas mabye a farang might not be welcome ?? or mabye not ?? :dontknow:

[cdnmatt]

Nope, I don't partake at all, and I stand on the sidelines. Now if I actually believed in Buddhism, and was a practicing Buddhist, I would definitely partake. However, I'm not a Buddhist, and have no desire to become a Buddhist, so I respectfully stand on the sidelines while they practice their beliefs, and what's important to them. If I'm not a practicing Buddhist, then I believe I'd be a complete fake / forgery, and it'd be extremely disrespectful to Buddhism as a whole. I know the majority of Thais don't view it that way, but I do.

Sometimes I'm forced into it though. For example, at a funeral, I'll be somewhat forced to go up, and brush the dead guys' face with water, and put my little paper thing under his coffin for the cremation, etc. Or at a wedding, I'll have to go up, and tie the little string around the groom's wrist. However, I don't enjoy doing that, because it's meaningless to me, whereas it has huge meaning to everyone else. I'd prefer just to quietly stay on the sidelines, and be respectful of whatever-the-fuck everyone else believes.

I don't want to degrade their beliefs by being an imposter, if that makes any sense. Again, majority of Thais would think I'm a total moron for thinking that, but nonetheless, that's the way I think.

I get mixed reactions out of this. You can tell some people think I'm respectful, and others think I'm rude. Up to them.

[martin911]

i wonder would be a bit unrespectful to think about having some type of temple service thingy for the still missing Beachlover :evil4: :evil4: --

Is it too early i wonder ?? :dontknow:
-i mean we will look a little silly if he lands the A380 out the road at U-Tapao on one of his next little trips "in and out of Asia " mabye the Mam wanted to have a look at fine goods for sale along Walking Street late of an evening in the hope of grabbing a bargin and while Beachy is waiting for mammy to finish her shopping he lands in the door to Neal for that promised drink :laughing3: :laughing3:

Il gladly make contribution to start -- ive a few Chinese Rmb gathering dust in a drawer ,oh and couple of half torn 20 Baht notes that even the gogo boys refused to take of me as a tip in the bars :laughing3: --and ive thousands upon thousands of Korean Won -

Dont hold back gentlemen --its for a worthday cause methinks :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:

Sorry NI --didnt mean to hijack -- fell free to :lam:

[Manforallseasons]

i wonder would be a bit unrespectful to think about having some type of temple service thingy for the still missing Beachlover(quote)martin911

It would be twice the effort as you'de have to to the thingy for Combat as well.

My own only two experiences of having anything to do with temples ( short of being dragged around them - and in my eyes once you've seen one you've seen them all :-( ) was when a guy I was with who was feeling down about something in his own life told me wanted to go and pray for himself, fine I thought and away we went, however I nearly choked when we walked into a fairly large temple in BKK and there was literally a line of trestle tables with women and monks (and visitors) all lined up getting and handing out what I now know to be "prayer slips" where you simply wrote down whatever your particular problem then went and pinned it to a big notice board type thing ( in theory to be blessed later by the monks I assume), which was all fine until I realised that he ( i.e. "I") had just been tapped for 500 baht by the women behind the table for the blank prayer slip in the first place !! and all for the pleasure oh just having a wee pray !!.

The next time was after I'd gone back to the UK and happened to mention on the phone to that very same guy from earlier that I was having some minor business problem, to which he casually replied - "oh I'll pray for you" so after pointing out I was a confirmed atheist and that wouldn't be necessary he insisted and I said "ok, whatever" thinking nothing more about it.......until a year and a half !! later when I happened to bump into him in DJ Station one night the very first words out of his mouth to me were "you owe me 500 baht for praying for you at the temple that time" (and he wasn't joking!) - ha ha I didn't know whether to laugh and ask him for a receipt or to hit him over the head with something for trying it on as I knew him to be one of life's real chancers at the best of times :-) however when I thought back my business problem had resolved itself satisfactorily and life is short so rather than screw with my cosmic karma I just paid up, smiled and said nothing :-)

But the more I think of it I guess that's no different to any other religion where either by weekly subscription or guilt money when you decide you need to pray for something they get the money out of you one way or another, ( I'm sure Jesus if he existed most certainly never intended it to be like that somehow ??) which I guess amoung other things is just one of the reasons I'm just a miserly atheist who would it seems rather spend my money on beer, boys and blowjobs (in that particualr order :-) and am quite happy to just risk the whole burning in hell blackmail threat thing no matter what :-)

Oh and Martin if you're having that Temple service you suggested don't think I'm coughing up the 500 Baht this time as the buggers have gotten more than enough out of me already lol - perhaps we should just organise a whip round ?? lol

I should add and to clarify the above and in answer to my own question that I am of course VERY respectful should I find myself in anyone else's place of worship and just sit quietly, I would join in with simple suff like passing a cup a long a line etc or physical things like that which may be required to allow a service to flow etc but I quietly and gently ignore and do not take part in any part of the service that actually implies acceptance or a belief in what's going on as that would just be hypocritical in my eyes and Matt just like you I find some people are fine with that and some seem inclined to take offence (where none is intended) but I've realised that you can't please all the people all of the time so generally tend to do just whatever feels right to me at the time and if some don't like it .....well that's just too bad I guess - but again anything I do is always quiet and measured and never intended to insult or make the person I may be with feel embarrassed or lose face and hopefully (and generally) they then understand me a bit better and respect my views on such situations then also.

[Dodger]

...and also do the Thai's have a view on this and do they wonder what us "stupid farang" are doing joining in with their ceremonies (or not) that they know we know very little about or could they just not care less either way perhaps ?

I don't think the Thais harbor any negative feelings when they see a farang participating in these ceremonies as they don't know (nor do they really care) if the farang is a practicing Buddhist or not, and secondly, they wouldn't be inclined to harbor negative feelings regardless of how they viewed the farangs actions because this violates one of the cornerstone precepts of Buddhism related to "right thinking".

This trait is deeply ingrained in Thai culture, thus the reason why you rarely see a Thai passing judgement which has negative conotations about another person as long as the persons actions were respectful, regardless if the other person is a Thai or farang. This is just one of the many traits I love about the Thai people in general.

To a Thai: When a farang is doing something which conveys respect they see this as "good karma". If a farang were to enter a temple with his shoes on, speaking in a loud tone or pinching one of the young monks on the ass...this would be viewed as "bad karma". It's all about karma and the amount of mindfulness (thoughtfulness) of a persons actions that really count.

I happen to be a Buddhist, although never participate in any of the rituals praticed in Thai temples, e.g., ringing of bells, lighting of candles or incense, reciting sutras and mantras, as these rituals, like the multitudes of variations of superstitions which permeate Buddhism, have little to do with the actual Buddhist teachings or the lifestyle which one adapts when becoming a Buddhist. I don't look negatively at those who do (Thai or farang), I just hope like hell that I don't get struck by a bolt of lightening when I enter a temple for all my wrong doings and leave it at that...555.

[colmx]

Unlike others have posted above my BF is very religious (or actually more like superstitious)
His neighbour hung himself a few days ago and they have spent the last few days appeasing his ghost (in the hope that it won't come to visit)
This even involved making his coffin from trees in BFs garden

I get dragged to the temple pretty frequently... Most of the time I haven't a clue what to do - but usually it involves us both holding onto a bag of eels whilst he mutters something and tells me to make a wish

He likes to release eels and feed the pidgeons in Wat Chai, the eels and Pidgeon food is bought at the wet market across the street on Pattaya Tai

Whilst outside Pattaya in the temple near silver lake he like to feed the fish... and there are millions of them there!

So in answer to the OP... I kinda join in akwardly... but have no idea what i am doing!

[pong]

agree mostly with dodger and also matt-can understand that pretty welll. have the same anti-religion (ANY) feelings-its allways about lazy people wanting money from poor people-by doing some empty promises. But it has a social binding funtion in society too and does give many people emotional comfort. And yes-for many a Thai it is more about the this time surely winning lotteree nrs. On the days before the 31st and 1st here in BKK you even see ''holy-respected'' monks sitting under a tree to give advice-at a price!- for those still undecided what will be the winning nr.
Martin-perhaps there was a trace of ya-ice left in your whiskey to induce your venom to people from a quite different caste?
In fact I very often pass thorugh temples here-in this part of BKK there is the kind of ''holy 9''-a set circuit from the Thai part of the TAT with loads of Thai bustours on weekends. And there are so many-taking nearly half of the area in.
I just walk past or sometimes sit in the shade. Hardly ever go inside the bot-and if, then I always check first if there is not something going on-just watch the amound of slippers and shoes. The touristy temples though are used to visitors and the locals also know that and hold their ceremonies elsewhere.
Yes-temples are free heavens for fish, tao=turtles etc. But they could do with more care for the many mangy dogs and have them sterilized. The birds to ''tamboon and make merit'' by leaving them from their tiny cages are trained to fly back in as soon as welldoer has left. It does has a nice social side if you think about it: a gentle way to help the poor earn some money-assuming they can at least do something and not just sit with a rented baby to solicit emotional response.

[anonone]

So in answer to the OP... I kinda join in akwardly... but have no idea what i am doing!

Sounds like my first 3 some in Thailand. :sign5:

I have been to some of the wats with the bf, and took some of his family members on one trip which they really seemed to appreciate. I did not join in with any activity. Much like visiting any other religious area, standing to the side quietly and respectfully seems the natural thing to do.

The one activity (not temple related) which I do like to perform is the random act of kindness. Handing over 20 baht to some of the genuinely handicapped folks that wander around always gets an approving glance from the BF. I guess I am making merit for us both.

And no, I am not referring to the many moms with kids that seem to be begging on most streets.

[CoffeeBreak]

OP: it is offensive and very disrespectful to partake in Temple ceremonies by a person who is not a Buddhist and anyone who claims otherwise is seriously deluded. The Thai's will understand someone who declines participation in such rituals, and no reason need be given.

When visiting a wat, I'll be there passively.
I do not interrupt anything of what's going on.

Me participating in any of it had absolutely no value.

[francois]

For me, respect yes, participation no, except at a funeral where I try to do as most of the other mourners. One time I did go to a Wat with a Thai who was puzzled and disappointed that I did not participate.

[Jellybean]

NIrish, you made me laugh with your story about the Thai boy offering to pray for you then asking for the 500 Baht fee when you returned to Thailand and met up with him. So no problems with his memory!

I probably consider myself an atheist, but when I find myself in a church, mosque or wat I conduct myself in a respectful manner and observe all the necessary formalities. When visiting a wat this entails removing my shoes, keeping quiet, being respectful and, where appropriate, kneeling with the soles of my feet pointing away from the Buddha. I usually sit away from others and as far back as possible whilst the boy IтАЩm with does what he considers necessary.

IтАЩve frequently been asked to donate money, just small amounts, which IтАЩm always happy to do to make merit (tam-bun). If IтАЩm asked to wish for something or to pray, IтАЩll occasionally wish that my next operation is successful тАУ IтАЩve had 11 already! Well, you never know!

And, thankfully, IтАЩve never had to attend a funeral service in Thailand so IтАЩve no experience of that yet.

[Beachlover]

I think it depends what your boyfriend or friend's expectation are... you should wait to see what he asks you to do. And if he doesn't offer any direction, ask him something like, "do you want me to join you?"

I think if this guy means something to you and you want to be part of his life and him part of your life, then whether you believe in Buddhism or not shouldn't stop you from participating at least the first or first few time/s. You come from fairly different cultures and there are probably lots of habits and practices you don't have in common. Sharing these things with one another is a way of connecting, showing you care about him and getting to know him better. I know it means a lot to me when my BF does things with me, which he wouldn't normally have done before knowing me.

I think after a while, if you feel you don't want to participate any more, then you might then make that decision and let him know in a positive way why.

--

I've only been taken to a temple once - or actually, it was multiple temples in one day - and he did invite me to participate and meditate with him (though I couldn't read the prayers obviously) so I did. He's a really special guy, quite a devout and focused Buddhist and I think it meant a lot to him to show me this. I enjoyed it, found it interesting, calming and rewarding to see this side of him and his life.

As for the "stupid farang" thing NIrish refers to, I don't really worry about this as I'm not a farang (Asian) and in fact, my parents are buddhist. They just never passed those teachings/beliefs to me. So it's not such a bad thing for me to learn about it with Thais.


i wonder would be a bit unrespectful to think about having some type of temple service thingy for the still missing Beachlover :evil4: :evil4: -- ...Sorry NI --didnt mean to hijack -- fell free to :lam:
Martin! Hope you're not going to drag your obsession across all the threads of this board in every random way possible. :rolling:

[martin911]

Dear o dear

Obsessions -- get a little life for yourself Eh :occasion9:

[thenorthguy]

I was asked to attend on my recent trip I accepted, brought the flowers and candles. Three times around the temple, I was wondering what I was doing, to make matters worse, candle wax all over my shoes and back of my shirt. I will know next time, to say thanks but no thanks....start without me.

... candle wax all over my shoes and back of my shirt..

I had a similar experience in a hotel room.

Not candle wax though.

:occasion9:

[alipatt-old]

I have frequently gone with my partner to the temples.

I take part in the normal ceremony and find that the feeling of serenity that I have in the temples brings me a feeling of peace.

I am christian and pray to god in the temple not Buddha but I see no need in my christain belief to distress the others around me that have different beliefs.

My partner has on many occasions gone to church with me and stood and sung hymns etc - I would never expect him to fully understand the meaning to me - but he understands the respect needed

[Dick]

When in Rome...

I've always gone to the Wat with my bf or bs over the years, and have learnt to mimic everything he does. I like it, although the knees can't stand it for over long. I especially like shaking the 'lucky' number sticks at the end of it and my fella telling me from the Thai key chart what the number translates to - not good / good / very good / everything very good! I get a detailed answer if I ask.
It's got to the point where at our current favourite temple (at the top of the hill in Pattaya) the monk asks my bf where I am if he goes alone. The same monk once commented that I perform the ritual better than many Thai people, lol.

One time at the bf's village, we (the whole extended family that is) went to their local temple just after Songkran to make offerings. Huge Wat, could easily seat 500 or more - lots of waiting... someone had to go find the 'helper' with the keys to open up, then another long wait while they turned on the electric. Meanwhile inside the temple whilst waiting for the power to come on, the helpers opened up the shutters on the windows and side doors. After about 20 mins waiting on the unforgiving polished mahogony floor my knees couldn't take any more so I left the assembled family sitting in front of the Abbot and statue of the Bhudda and went to a side door to sit on a bench just outside the door whilst waiting for the power to come on. Next minute the Abbot came and sat next to me, quickly followed by the family who then knelt just inside the Temble doorway before him, and he conducted the 'service' there. OK, so the Abbot was brother to my bf's grandmother, but I was chuffed by the consideration none the less.

I like the informality of the Wat... no stuffy prescribed form of conduct required that you often find in Christian churches. It doesn't matter if you make a mistake; Thai people will be forgiving knowing that you mean well. So if you want to but haven't, ask your boy special to take you next time.

[Wesley]

why go to any temple at all if you don't believe in God? If you are a true Buddhist then certainly Join in, If not leave the locals to their heritage without being looked at as if they were in a zoo.

[Dodger]

Wesley Wrote:


why go to any temple at all if you don't believe in God?

If you're referring to a Buddhist Temple the answer is simple...Buddhists don't believe in a God.

[Wesley]

Wesley Wrote:


why go to any temple at all if you don't believe in God?

If you're referring to a Buddhist Temple the answer is simple...Buddhists don't believe in a God.

Well at least they are on the right track Eh :blackeye: your a good guy Dodger, you could have realy whacked me on that one.

All the best!