Is it time for the Boyztown arches to come down

[lonelywombat]

Some weeks ago there was a thread that got more than a little willing and included several posts . Here is a key phrase from one of the longer post in Time warp in Boyztown

time-warp-boystown-t24964-45.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/time-warp-boystown-t24964-45.html)" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I am bothered by some of the posts I see which constantly bash the Copa and BBB. Maybe some of you haven't gotten it yet, but The Copa Showbar is just that, a showbar. It is not a meat market for the ex-pat
community to gaze at prime young cuts of beef. Same goes for BBB. While both bars have GG boys, that is not their main business. What's so difficult to understand about that?
.

I have noticed that the 3 hotels Ambiance, Caferoyale and Copa on various sites advertising for all tourists not just gay. I saw a note in tripadviser from a person that was surprised that Ambience was in a seedy street full of gay bars.

Well maybe times are tough. There are not as many gay tourists stopping at these three hotels but I have not seen any promotions for any of the three to members of this forum, the largest viewing forum for gays about Thailand.
I routinely get offers for stay "3 nights get the next three free" from the big hotels, but have never seen these three Boyztown hotels offering similar deals to the gay community. Do they not have low seasons or is their low season almost 12 months.

At the moment FunnyBoys and ToyBoys are the only full time go go bars in Soi 3.The quote suggests that Copa and BBB are not meat markets and from my observations they attract little or no interest in their offing boys options.

BUt if they are repositioning as show bars why not get rid of the go go altogether. I cannot see them making money as the boys seem more props rather than "meat market". Then with the go go removed and the push for tourists not just gay tourists, the Boyztown arch would certainly appear out of place.

I wonder which of the three will break ranks and make a similar offer of pay 3 nights, stay next 3 for free during low season, to members of sawatdee.

[frequentflier]

As a matter of interest?
Which gay hotels give these offers?I havent noticed any in Pattaya..Maybe I am wrong..Does The Venue,Howards,Ganymede,Bondi,to mention just a few ,give specials..I would like to know..Thanks.

[lonelywombat]

I mentioned big hotels like Dusit I hardly think Howards Bondi or even Ganymede qualify. I never go to Venue website and they do not have a banner across Jomtien complex labelled Boyztown.


I get the impression from the Venue it is run as a hobby and they dont seem to care about making money.None of your hotels is in Boyztown which is the thread.

[frequentflier]

Is the Dusit a gay hotel??
Must check it out and see what they offer..

[lonelywombat]

Is the Dusit a gay hotel??
Must check it out and see what they offer..


It is a big hotel somewhat bigger than Howards and Bondi. Here is a copy of the offer a friend is looking at right now, 8 nights at Baraquda D2 [Dusit] less than half price.

http://www.asiarooms.com/en/thailand/pa ... aquda.html (http://www.asiarooms.com/en/thailand/pattaya/177984-dusitd2_baraquda.html)

But the hotels you mentioned and Dusit are not in Boyztown.

[frequentflier]

Thanks for the info..You did single out the 3 hotels in Boyztown..How can you compare them to the Dusit?
Personally I think the arch is nice.Why not keep it..I would suggest that the people involved in Boyztown should replace some of the bulbs on the street..Its looks tacky.

[Neal]

We have, over and over again. The bulbs make it look like a circus. What the bars on Soi 3 need is the influx of dollars....tourist dollars and that means straight tourists also. They won't usually go down that soi except to gawk and that does not bring revenue. The signs need to be removed, the colored lights taken down and the street dressed up a little to attract tourists to see SHOWS.
Something they don't regularly get to see and to have a good time. Make money. WAKE UP SOI 3 !!!!!

[colmx]

Perhaps an entrance fee is the way to go?
Free for thais
10B for Gay farangs/Russians/Asians
100B for Chinese/Japanese tour groups
100B for Russian Families (or 200B if they want to use the toilets which is what have of them seem to want to do!
Then drop the most of the lady boys from the shows and have interesting shows like HP/WWB and Splash boys?

[Neal]

:sign5: Great suggestion! The mere point is that there are some tourists that do come into the bars you mentioned to see THE SHOWS.
I believe it is less likely that they travel down Soi 3 because of the archways. In the past I am quite sure it was a benefit but nowawdays I truly believe they are a liability.

Perhaps an entrance fee is the way to go?
10B for Gay farangs/Russians/Asians

I can't wait to see how the owners are going to police that one :-) Perhaps a few cute boys on the door and if you dont get hard when they caress you as you enter you simply don't get in ? he he if so bring it on I'm all for that sort of door policy and think it should be adopted widely ! :-) Actually now that I think of it from several of the clubs I've been in before I think it maybe already HAS been ! lol

[witchhunt]

I have not been in BT for some weeks, but if I was non gay person walking into BT past the 2 gay massage places with the massage boys out front, it would make me a little uncomfortable. If I saw the arch and then saw the boys by the time I got to boyzboyzboyz, yes I would be nervous Also have you heard what the boys call or read the chalk boards in the soi.

Do the hotel owners really have a business plan. I doubt it. Of course the cartel only discusses drink prices and off fees. What else is important? The meat market !!! talk to someone who cares.

[aot871]

None of the three hotels ever seem to offer special rates in the low season (, may the 1st untill the end of oct for the cafe ), far too short to myway of thinking What do most guys think the low season period should be

[sydneyboy]

As I have written previously I was in Pattaya 2 years ago (January) after a 5 year absence and Boyztown was as dead as Julius Caesar. The bars had a handful of unattractive boys and the tourists were few and far between. I gather little has changed. No wonder the hotels are looking for straights, they need all the help they can get.

I have not been in BT for some weeks, but if I was non gay person walking into BT past the 2 gay massage places with the massage boys out front, it would make me a little uncomfortable.


I totally agree about that as no matter what end of the Soi you walk in from you're hit with either the Copa guys or the Ambience guys ( well the gym next door to it) who are all either sitting about bored out of their heads and the second you walk in you either get a flurry of guys waving their boards at you or the exact opposite that they can't be bothered and just sit smoking and talking to each other - either way not exactly a welcoming site and that's me speaking as someone well used to that so I dread to think what someone new makes of it all.

I have actually sat many a morning whilst having coffee outside Copa etc watching ( I'm guessing Bi curious guys) people walking down the Soi who were obviously interested in a "massage" who then walked up and down, back and forward, stopped at the end of the Soi and looked at the guys but were so intimidated when they walked past and were "grabbed" that they simply dismissed ALL of the guys and quickly walked on, perhaps never to return ( although it was quite funny if you sat long enough and were able to watch some of them sneak back again 15 minutes later to try again with the one guy they actually DID want to take lol but it did show that people who were maybe shy just weren't comfortable there which is the main point I guess.

[andrewcraig]

if you are serious about pay 3 nights get 3 nights free, would it work for pay 6 nights . like we cannot afford to stay in boystown but we come 2 times a year in low season and stay down jomtien and go back and forward by the bahtbus

we would not mind bt being flooded like it was last time to stay there. tell me it might happen

[a447]

Sydneyboy wrote:
No wonder the hotels are looking for straights, they need all the help they can get.

Although I stayed at the Ambiance for a week in early January and was told the place was full. When I said I wanted to stay another night, they had to check to see if a room was available. Maybe January is high season. I didn't see any straight couples inside the hotel or on the terrace. However, the guy in the room opposite me was often visited by a young Thai girl. She once knocked on my door by mistake.

As for the arches, even as a gay person I feel intimidated! Tear them down. I've seen heaps of Asian and Russian tourists (group tours, maybe) standing at the start of Boyztown near familymart and taking pictures. They do not dare venture in. Far too gay for them!

[frequentflier]

hopefully the other gay hotels and guesthouses will lead the way and give good offers,maybe then the people in Boyztown will follow.But thats unlikely to happen.

hopefully the other gay hotels and guesthouses will lead the way and give good offers,maybe then the people in Boyztown will follow.But thats unlikely to happen.

On the different websites I found:
Welcome to Le Caf├й Royale, Pattaya's Premier Gay Hotel on the home-page.

Located in the heart of Boyz Town тАУ Pattaya's authentic gay village. The Copa is within walking distance of a multitude of go-go bars, showbars, restaurants and cafes, yet is only 100 metres from the beach at Pattaya and only a short journey from the gay beach in Jomtien.

Ambiance doesn't really sell as a gay hotel, although through the lines of the Hotel presentation you may read that it actually is a gay hotel.

The affiliated bars (resp. Cafe Royal, Copa and BBB) are boy-bars. This doesn't automatically mean: gay-bar. That's how we would like to see them.
In a way I like the presence of women in a bar. In case there any doubts whether a boy is 100% gay......send in some women and you can pick the bi's or straight guys.

[lonelywombat]

Yes I did have a look at the various websites and you will note on Cafe Royale they are talking about the Royal Wedding celebration and the second anniversary of El Duo and Davids birthday. That makes it close to 12 months out of date.

http://www.caferoyale-pattaya.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I did not have much joy on agoda for cafe royale.

on asiarooms Ambience was offering a $1 discount . On Agoda they were offering 50% off.

My point is why cant they offer these discounts direct to the gay community. Maybe I am as stupid as beachlover states, but surely it is better for the Ambience and BBB, Copa and Boyztown to have gay tourists booked in and spending their gay dollar in BT, rather than straights who spend their money in Walking Street.

http://www.agoda.com/asia/thailand/patt ... views.html (http://www.agoda.com/asia/thailand/pattaya/ambiance_pattaya_hotel/reviews.html)" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Look at the 50% discount for Copa

http://www.agoda.com/asia/thailand/patt ... hotel.html (http://www.agoda.com/asia/thailand/pattaya/copa_hotel.html)" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If your target market is gay then why not direct your marketing direct to the gays who are interested in Pattaya.

[stevehadders]

I take your point Lonely - but Agoda rates can be misleading - if you check through the discount for copa is not 50% at all - its 50% of a higher rate that has been inputted, normally refelecting their top ever price (this is how they market on this site). If you check for a superior deluxe room on Copa website the price on agoda is approx 100 baht cheaper 1100/1000 on Agoda. It may very well be if you send the reservation query to Copa they will automatically match the rate they put on 3rd pary sites, as many hotels do.

To be fair, many gay tourists, myself included, book hotels through these 3rd party websites, who have a much wider reach and audience.

Back on topic, I personally believe the arches should come down, but purely as I believe it is a little outdated.

replace the arches with mcdonalds arches ... most of the guys walking under them look like they've a big mac or two..

[newyorkgeorge]

Do the hotel owners really have a business plan. I doubt it. Of course the cartel only discusses drink prices and off fees. What else is important? The meat market !!! talk to someone who cares
Do you honestly think that if these business's were not profitable, they would still be trading?
I also book via Agoda, and i agree with the previous comments regarding Copa, and probably the Ambiance, the published rates are about twice what their rates are on their own websites, so there really is no difference in price, they are just doing what nearly every other Hotel around the world are doing (except LCR for some reason?) and using every available tool to attract customers, why can't straight people stay in a predominantly gay hotel? gay people fought for years for equality, and now they should be hetrophobic? technoloogy has changed forever the way people do business, i can book a room with Agoda on my iphone, and within 30 minutes i can be in the room, that's the new reality, times change!
Regarding tha arches, i agree, they are a bit dated, but replace them with what?

...Do you honestly think that if these business's were not profitable, they would still be trading?

Profitability is only relevant if the proprietors deem it to be so.
In the case of some of the BT businesses they are run as a pastime as much as anything else.
Some proprietors are wealthy and therefore do not need the business to be hugely profitable - as they have private funds and/or other more profitable "business interests" shall we say, which bring in a steady revenue stream.



... i can book a room with Agoda on my iphone, and within 30 minutes i can be in the room, that's the new reality....

Yes thank f*ck for the iphone - that's revolutionary.
In the "old days" you booked by phone/fax/email or simply turned up - I don't know how we managed.


:occasion9:

[kittyboy]

When I lived in the US and traveled to Thailand my gay friends in the US would ask me if I had gone to Boyztown or if they were planning a trip they would ask my about the bars and hotels in Boyztown. My mostly straight friends here in china (mostly younger teaching assistants) know about Boyztown and have asked me for advice on where to go for fun...shows..etc.

I do not know the history of Boyztown and how it acquired world wide recognition (it does have world wide recognition) but Boyztown is a world wide brand and part of the brand image is the arch over the Soi with Boyztown in lights.

It makes absolutely no sense to me to suggest that to revitalize the Boyztown brand (does it need to be revitalized?) the arch over the Soi needs to be torn down. It is an image recognized in parts of the gay (and hetero) community world wide.

What is the value to the business owners in abandoning it? I do not see any logic or profit in doing so.

[christianpfc]

I like the arch and see no reason to put it down.

I weakly remember, when I first came to Pattaya, I had no idea where Boyztown is. I took a baht-bus from the bus station and told the driver to take me to Cafe Royale. I don't know how they remember which passenger goes where, but I was relieved when I saw the Boyztown arch because I recognized it from pictures in the internet.

At least on the picture on nickysgaypattaya, it looks fine and all light bulbs are on. A strong contrast to Sunee Plaza, which has no sign at all, there is an arch with "Marina Inn Plaza" (if I remember correctly), with a torn banner with an advert for an event that took place in 2010 hanging in
tatters. Similar for Hollywood and Day-Night Plaza, if I remember correcly the names on the arches are incomplete because letters have fallen off.

(Checking the original post, I realise that "arches come down" is used metaphorically and not physically.)

[bucknaway]

It is what it is.... How much money I spend when in that area has nothing to do with the arch over the entrance and everything to do with curb appeal, entertainment value and the guys.

When I want to see a good show, I go to the place that fills that need.
When I want a drink that won't break the bank, I go to a place that best fills that need.
When I want to hire some fun, I go to a place that I think will cater to my needs.

Never once have I ever cared about the arch

Kindly refer to the last sentence in christianpfc's post he's the only one who appears to have "got it".

Unless he is crediting the wombat with more literary dexterity than is deserved.

:evil4:

thats the trouble with americans .. and you prove it big time buccy .... no sense of history !!

[kittyboy]

What??? metaphorically not physically? you mean Lonely was engaging in some rhetorical flourishes? Is that true Lonely?

I guess I am suffering from a bout of Literalism....spending way too much time with the chinese. About as literal a people as you will find.

[newyorkgeorge]

I like the arch and see no reason to put it down.

I do too, but they must do something about those nasty xmas tree lights draped across the street, now i am not going to count them, that's already been done (although an update would be nice?) but they do look awful, why not just take them down, i can't imagine it would make any difference to the brightness of the street, that enormous copa sign is enough to keep the whole of pattaya in brightness, shudder to think what their electric bill is?