Time warp in Boystown...

[Patexpat]

Sat in Panorama for the first time in months last night, passing the time of day after work we remarked how unchanged Boystown (soi 3) is compared to when we used to holiday here well over 10 years ago .... Ok some names may have changed but the overall ambiance (pun intended) really hadn't changed or kept up with the time. Compare it with some of the BKK sois that have modern LED lighting displays and signs and the difference in investment trying to lure people in is obvious.

We estimated that about 20% of the decorative bulbs aren't working, plus numerous signs were only partially working, and in fact the big sign outside Copa didn't seem to be working at all ... or they hadn't turned it on. And well, there was just no 'buzz'.

Just an observation!

[lonelywombat]

I was chatting on skype the other night to a former member who say he will never return to Pattaya after the boys[men's] shorts at Cafe Royale were changed to trousers. He was turned on by waiters wearing very brief pink shorts, which IMHO looked vile on the original guys that stayed on but were now in mid thirties. He also pointed that since Mick passed away, Cafe Royale has never had a manager interested or perhaps capable of recreating the late night bar where bar boys were welcome as freelancers after work.

I am not sure of what the beneficiries of the estate plan long term for CR, but it seems to me that David the night manager seems to be just as involved in Oscars, as when he was the owner. If he is still the owner of Oscars, then I fail to see how a strategy to get Cafe Royale jumping again past midnight can evolve. The last few times I have been in Boyztown3,2,1 late, Oscars was one of the few bars gay or straight still open at 0200. If CR and Oscars are in a cosy non competitive aarrangement, I dont think it is good for Boyztown.

I have been told that New Orleans has been sold so the chance of reopening a restaurant on the site of Richards restaurants seems remote But the disco that has opened there is not doing well and cannot last much longer.

What Boyztown does need is an alternative to the cafe/restaurants of Ambience and Cafe Royale, neither of which seems to excite a great following
A good quality 3 course meal as in Jomtien and DayNight with beer bars next door with good prices, might just be the thing to bring some life back into the old girl.

#######no it was not being personal********

[aot871]

I have said to friends before, that the cafe royale soi is still trading as awhole , (not including funny boys ) in the past., Now the freelancers which used to use the cafe bar after midnight , go to places such as nab and dave. To counter act the loss of business , what does the cafe bar do , put the bar prices up . There seems to be no interest in doing any thing to increase or intise people to stay drinking late at night., The thai bar staff arnt very helpful , most have been there too long . The copa show bar is well over priced, and again not used much, by the expat guys who are the mainstay of bars in pattaya as a whole The main point is again that the scene has changed in pattaya. With the change of the , overall way retired expat and visitors live , due to lower exchange rates (apart from australia ) you have to provide value for money, this the cafe and copa are not doing.

The posts above illustrate the "dilemma"

On the one hand there are people crying out for change - saying "Give us something new and different, it's 2012 not 1982".

Then, on the other hand, you have a former regular visitor saying he will never return because LCR changed pink shorts for trousers!!

:occasion9:

[Dick]

I rather liked the boys of Cafe Royale in their 80's shorts... the colour didn't matter so long as they were filled with 'nice' legs, and I was disappointed when they converted to trousers. For me the leg candy was a prime reason for frequenting the place. The long shorts most footballers wear today wouldn't meet expectations... but that's another subject.

I would agree that Boystown needs a good kick up the backside to make it more attractive given the competition, although I'm sure there are minds more clever than mine to suggest how it might be done. Alas not all establishments are run with the passion demonstrated at Happy Place. Soi 3 might well continue to survive on the kudos of 'Boyztown' alone with the tourism that that name attracts, but the vibrancy that it use to possess has been allowed to dissipate to newer venues.

The posts above illustrate the "dilemma"

On the one hand there are people crying out for change - saying "Give us something new and different, it's 2012 not 1982".

Then, on the other hand, you have a former regular visitor saying he will never return because LCR changed pink shorts for trousers!!

:occasion9:

Couldnt agree more well said

[newyorkgeorge]

I have said to friends before, that the cafe royale soi is still trading as awhole , (not including funny boys ) in the past., Now the freelancers which used to use the cafe bar after midnight , go to places such as nab and dave. To counter act the loss of business , what does the cafe bar do , put the bar prices up . There seems to be no interest in doing any thing to increase or intise people to stay drinking late at night., The thai bar staff arnt very helpful , most have been there too long . The copa show bar is well over priced, and again not used much, by the expat guys who are the mainstay of bars in pattaya as a whole The main point is again that the scene has changed in pattaya. With the change of the , overall way retired expat and visitors live , due to lower exchange rates (apart from australia ) you have to provide value for money, this the cafe and copa are not doing.
Strange, everytime i am in the Copa the majority of customers are Asian, i think you (like many other ex pats) over rate your importance, 200 baht for a drink with a show is nothing, compare it to what you pay in Jupiter 2000 (370 baht) or Soi Twighlight 280 - 330 baht per drink, personally i think it's a bargain, and why should Thailand be cheaper than anywhere else anyhow? i can't get a beer in NY for less than 8 bucks (240 baht) and that's in my neighbourhood bar, if i venture somewehere else, like a gay bar or nightclub, it's 12 bucks up (360 baht) so stop whinging! nobody forces anyone into these bars (unlike soi twighlight) so rather than bitching about prices, drink somewhere that suits your budget, may i suggest soi buckhao (wrong spelling, i know!) or at the back of tuk com, some lovely establishments there, and at 50 baht a beer, what a bargain!

[Patexpat]

why should Thailand be cheaper than anywhere else anyhow?!

What an asinine comment!

Yeah and add to that that Cafe Royale changed from shorts to trousers, what (?) about 2 years ago? And this guy is just telling you now that he won't go back? Seems like Cafe Royale survived without his business these last 2 years! :sign5:

Also, I don't know about everyone else but when I go there for a bite to eat, while I am looking at the guys, I am more interested in the tuna salad sandwich or whatever I ordered rather than boycotting a place because of their long legged trousers! Give me a break! I'm sorry but anybody that says that they are going to eat elsewhere because they can't see a persons legs anymore is an asshole.:laughing3:

You want to see skin? While you are eating, look across the street to the Ambiance massage boys or the boys walking past to the Copa Body Club massage next door, or just the boys and falang walking past altogether. Maybe strike up a decent old conversation with the guy at the table next to you and find out where he is from, how long he is going to be in Pattaya and is this his first time here, etc?

Does it always have to be looking at the meat? Give me a break! :gy: :hah:

[aot871]

I have said to friends before, that the cafe royale soi is still trading as awhole , (not including funny boys ) in the past., Now the freelancers which used to use the cafe bar after midnight , go to places such as nab and dave. To counter act the loss of business , what does the cafe bar do , put the bar prices up . There seems to be no interest in doing any thing to increase or intise people to stay drinking late at night., The thai bar staff arnt very helpful , most have been there too long . The copa show bar is well over priced, and again not used much, by the expat guys who are the mainstay of bars in pattaya as a whole The main point is again that the scene has changed in pattaya. With the change of the , overall way retired expat and visitors live , due to lower exchange rates (apart from australia ) you have to provide value for money, this the cafe and copa are not doing.
Strange, everytime i am in the Copa the majority of customers are Asian, i think you (like many other ex pats) over rate your importance, 200 baht for a drink with a show is nothing, compare it to what you pay in Jupiter 2000 (370 baht) or Soi Twighlight 280 - 330 baht per drink, personally i think it's a bargain, and why should Thailand be cheaper than anywhere else anyhow? i can't get a beer in NY for less than 8 bucks (240 baht) and that's in my neighbourhood bar, if i venture somewehere else, like a gay bar or nightclub, it's 12 bucks up (360 baht) so stop whinging! nobody forces anyone into these bars (unlike soi twighlight) so rather than bitching about prices, drink somewhere that suits your budget, may i suggest soi buckhao (wrong spelling, i know!) or at the back of tuk com, some lovely establishments there, and at 50 baht a beer, what a bargain! newyork george says above why should thailand be cheaper than any where else,,,,,, If new york, london, sydney, ect were the same price as thailand , then why in the hell would people fly half way round, apart from the weather

[UncleTom]

......We estimated that about 20% of the decorative bulbs aren't working, ....
You must be a scream to have a drink with!

"Come on Chris let's go out and count the lightbulbs that aren't working in Boyz Town, then we can post something really interesting on the all new Sawatdee Gay Thailand forum."

......We estimated that about 20% of the decorative bulbs aren't working, ....
You must be a scream to have a drink with!

"Come on Chris let's go out and count the lightbulbs that aren't working in Boyz Town, then we can post something really interesting on the all new Sawatdee Gay Thailand forum."

I was chatting on skype the other night to a former member who vows he will never return after the 3th red lightbulb on the 4th row of decorative lightbulbs running across Soi 3, was changed for a blue one.

He used to enjoy sitting at LCR looking at that particular lightbulb (he doesn't look at the boys now because they are wearing lace-up shoes instead of slip-ons) and things are just not the same.

Whereas the BLUE lightbulb calmed and soothed him, this infernal RED one brings on his agression and he becomes argumentative.

He will never to go back to Pattaya/Thailand/Asia until the blue lightbulb is restored.

:occasion9:

[witchhunt]

Hey scottish-guy I rolled on the floor laughing at your post, not what you said but the fact you think you are Harry Lauder himself.You are a legend in your own mind and you are your only supporter.WGAF anymore at what you say.

You go for cheap laughs and cheap shots and you roll on the ground thinking how funny am I.

To be frank not a bleeding bit.

why should thailand be cheaper than any where else,,,,,, If new york, london, sydney, ect were the same price as Thailand , then why in the hell would people fly half way round, apart from the weather
Duh, maybe it for the handsome young men that are not elsewhere to be had in most other parts of the world?



Hey scottish-guy I rolled on the floor laughing at your post, not what you said but the fact you think you are Harry Lauder himself.You are a legend in your own mind and you are your only supporter.WGAF anymore at what you say.

You go for cheap laughs and cheap shots and you roll on the ground thinking how funny am I.

To be frank not a bleeding bit.

Speak for yourself. I think most of the time he is quite humorous!

Hey scottish-guy I rolled on the floor laughing at your post, not what you said but the fact you think you are Harry Lauder himself.You are a legend in your own mind and you are your only supporter.WGAF anymore at what you say.

You go for cheap laughs and cheap shots and you roll on the ground thinking how funny am I.

To be frank not a bleeding bit.

I'm stung by that criticism, I really am.

No, honestly.

Really.

Seriously - i'm not laughing at you, it's....ermmmm... hysteria?

:love4:

PS Thanks, Neal.

[a447]

Three cheers for Scottish-guy. :love4:
At least he doesn't take himself too seriously.
I think his posts are hilarious. But maybe that's just me.

[newyorkgeorge]

What an asinine comment!
Elaborate please?

[newyorkgeorge]

Yeah and add to that that Cafe Royale changed from shorts to trousers, what (?) about 2 years ago? And this guy is just telling you now that he won't go back? Seems like Cafe Royale survived without his business these last 2 years! :sign5:

Also, I don't know about everyone else but when I go there for a bite to eat, while I am looking at the guys, I am more interested in the tuna salad sandwich or whatever I ordered rather than boycotting a place because of their long legged trousers! Give me a break! I'm sorry but anybody that says that they are going to eat elsewhere because they can't see a persons legs anymore is an asshole.:laughing3:

You want to see skin? While you are eating, look across the street to the Ambiance massage boys or the boys walking past to the Copa Body Club massage next door, or just the boys and falang walking past altogether. Maybe strike up a decent old conversation with the guy at the table next to you and find out where he is from, how long he is going to be in Pattaya and is this his first time here, etc?

Does it always have to be looking at the meat? Give me a break! :gy: :hah:
Well said! i do wish the boys in KFC would show a bit more thigh though, theirs, not the chickens!

[newyorkgeorge]

I have said to friends before, that the cafe royale soi is still trading as awhole , (not including funny boys ) in the past., Now the freelancers which used to use the cafe bar after midnight , go to places such as nab and dave. To counter act the loss of business , what does the cafe bar do , put the bar prices up . There seems to be no interest in doing any thing to increase or intise people to stay drinking late at night., The thai bar staff arnt very helpful , most have been there too long . The copa show bar is well over priced, and again not used much, by the expat guys who are the mainstay of bars in pattaya as a whole The main point is again that the scene has changed in pattaya. With the change of the , overall way retired expat and visitors live , due to lower exchange rates (apart from australia ) you have to provide value for money, this the cafe and copa are not doing.
Strange, everytime i am in the Copa the majority of customers are Asian, i think you (like many other ex pats) over rate your importance, 200 baht for a drink with a show is nothing, compare it to what you pay in Jupiter 2000 (370 baht) or Soi Twighlight 280 - 330 baht per drink, personally i think it's a bargain, and why should Thailand be cheaper than anywhere else anyhow? i can't get a beer in NY for less than 8 bucks (240 baht) and that's in my neighbourhood bar, if i venture somewehere else, like a gay bar or nightclub, it's 12 bucks up (360 baht) so stop whinging! nobody forces anyone into these bars (unlike soi twighlight) so rather than bitching about prices, drink somewhere that suits your budget, may i suggest soi buckhao (wrong spelling, i know!) or at the back of tuk com, some lovely establishments there, and at 50 baht a beer, what a bargain! newyork george says above why should thailand be cheaper than any where else,,,,,, If new york, london, sydney, ect were the same price as thailand , then why in the hell would people fly half way round, apart from the weather
Oh, i see, so you only go to countries that are cheaper than your own, your a great customer, i'm sure. Now why would you fly half way round the world to come to Thailand, where do you begin? but i actually do have a life, one i would rather spend enjoying this beautiful country, rather than listing it's attributes to an ex- pat, nothing personal.

[newyorkgeorge]

Hey scottish-guy I rolled on the floor laughing at your post, not what you said but the fact you think you are Harry Lauder himself.You are a legend in your own mind and you are your only supporter.WGAF anymore at what you say.

You go for cheap laughs and cheap shots and you roll on the ground thinking how funny am I.

To be frank not a bleeding bit.
Made me laugh! it's called having a sense of humour :sign5:

[Neal]

I would really like it if some of you would learn how to use the quotes. We do not need to be copying every freaking post that has been written. People can follow threads ya know! also you don't have to copy peoples last three and four threads. Remove the quote symbol which is the bracket both before and after of all the posts that are not relevant! If you don't know how to do it, PLEASE PM me so I can teach you. All these previous quotes are driving me mad and taking up far too much space.
Kap kun kaaaaaa!

[newyorkgeorge]

What an asinine comment!
Sorry, i forgot to mention that this is a comment from a guy who sits and counts lightbulbs, asinine indeed!

[paperboy]

think scots-guy is drinking too much buckfast :party

[Patexpat]

What an asinine comment!
Sorry, i forgot to mention that this is a comment from a guy who sits and counts lightbulbs, asinine indeed!

Sorry you can't grasp basic English never mind basic economics, but well done for looking up asinine.

If you bother to read the original post Mr George, it says ESTIMATED... and secondly, as you apparently have no grasp of the most basic economic theory, ask yourself why is the comparative price of a Big Mac different in the US, compared to the UK, Iceland, Thailand etc?

If you can possibly grasp that, then you may understand why your original comment was asinine.

If I need to explain further, rest assured I won't bother!

Oh this has nothing to do with the current argument really except that I thought that the McDonald's sandwiches were smaller than USA and it was explained to me that they are and they are done this way by region of the world so that it co-insides with the ability to pay for that area. I HAVE NO IDEA IF THAT IS TRUE OR NOT and BTW, I don't think I ever saw a Burger King now that you mention it, it would be a refreshing change if I wanted it. Anybody know if there is such a place in Pattaya? OK, carry on. :tongue3:

[martin911]

......We estimated that about 20% of the decorative bulbs aren't working, ....
You must be a scream to have a drink with!

"Come on Chris let's go out and count the lightbulbs that aren't working in Boyz Town, then we can post something really interesting on the all new Sawatdee Gay Thailand forum."

I was chatting on skype the other night to a former member who vows he will never return after the 3th red lightbulb on the 4th row of decorative lightbulbs running across Soi 3, was changed for a blue one.

He used to enjoy sitting at LCR looking at that particular lightbulb (he doesn't look at the boys now because they are wearing lace-up shoes instead of slip-ons) and things are just not the same.

Whereas the BLUE lightbulb calmed and soothed him, this infernal RED one brings on his agression and he becomes argumentative.

He will never to go back to Pattaya/Thailand/Asia until the blue lightbulb is restored.

:occasion9:

Nice one !!!! :laughing3: :laughing3:

The guy that wont come because the guys are not in shorts anymore is sadly missed by the bar boy population im sure :occasion9:

[Patexpat]

......We estimated that about 20% of the decorative bulbs aren't working, ....
You must be a scream to have a drink with!

"Come on Chris let's go out and count the lightbulbs that aren't working in Boyz Town, then we can post something really interesting on the all new Sawatdee Gay Thailand forum."

Sorry Mr Tom with all your 10 posts that you can't grasp the intent of the OP! Must try harder!

And people wonder why the quality and quantity of posts seem to be declining on this board. Frankly it's this rubbish type of response why I don't bother to post on here ... or any forum ... very much. Too many d**ks! (not the type that go quack quack!).

[neoncrusade]

Who's this Harry Lauder bloke that keeps getting a mention? What bar does he run?

[sing_lofty_sing]

Oh come on your a nobody unless you drink in Pattaya's "Harry Lauder" bar. :dontknow: LOL

Oh come on your a nobody unless you drink in Pattaya's "Harry Lauder" bar. :dontknow: LOL

Well somebody on here certainly seems to have a Harry Lauder fetish:

http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/vaudeville-returns-pattaya-t20154.html?hilit=harry%20lauder

[lonelywombat]

that since Mick passed away, Cafe Royale has never had a manager interested or perhaps capable of recreating the late night bar where bar boys were welcome as freelancers after work.

I am not sure of what the beneficiries of the estate plan long term for CR, but it seems to me that David the night manager seems to be just as involved in Oscars, as when he was the owner. If he is still the owner of Oscars, then I fail to see how a strategy to get Cafe Royale jumping again past midnight can evolve. The last few times I have been in Boyztown3,2,1 late, Oscars was one of the few bars gay or straight still open at 0200. If CR and Oscars are in a cosy non competitive aarrangement, I dont think it is good for Boyztown.

*

I have been challenged in a PM on this statement so let me add detail.

My last trip I arrived late in Pattaya and after checking in I went looking for a drink. Soi 1 was dead most of soi 2 was closed I walked past Cafe Royale and it seemed dead as well , only Oscars was open. It was around 2AM

A second G&T was easily obtained and then I became aware David the night manager of CR was behind the Oscars bar, cashing up. David may have just been helping out, it might have been a one off thing, but he used to own Oscars and on that night it seemed as if he still did.

I stand by my statement that I cannot see Cafe Royale late night [all night] bar returning, when the night manager is more interested in the survival of a competing bar. As I dont live in Pattaya it might have changed.
It IMHO would need to.

BUT BUT BUT....Wombat ... LCR (being 24hrs) is still open long after Oscars has closed, isn't it?

Anyway, it seems that LCR does not wish to have freelance boys hanging around after normal bar-closing time, and that has been the case now for many years. That's their commercial decision I don't have a problem with it as I don't really want to find a shag at 4am, I'd far rather have another G&T!

It's the same at the Suriwongse Hotel in BKK which put a stop to the coffee shop "trade" many years ago and, although I have only ever visited the Malaysia Hotel Coffee Shop once (and found it dead) - I believe it's much the case there too.

:dontknow:

[lonelywombat]

BUT BUT BUT....Wombat ... LCR (being 24hrs) is still open long after Oscars has closed, isn't it?

I got the impression and I left Oscars before last drinks were called whatever time that is, the preferred late drinking place in Soi3 was not Cafe Royale. Thats my six pennyworth.

BUT BUT BUT....Wombat ... LCR (being 24hrs) is still open long after Oscars has closed, isn't it?

I got the impression and I left Oscars before last drinks were called whatever time that is, the preferred late drinking place in Soi3 was not Cafe Royale. Thats my six pennyworth.

Well my "routine" is that I have my last "beer bar" drinks at Oscars and when it shuts (usually 1-30-2.00am) I make my way to LCR where we can still get something to eat and also a few drinks there until calling it a night (or "day" as the case may be)

There is nothing new about David running both Oscars and LCR at night - it's been going on for 2 or 3 years.
I believe his intention was to sell Oscars but an offer he had (from an Australian I believe!) fell through when the money was not forthcoming.
My assumption is that he has had no acceptable offers since then.
You said that you had seen him "cashing -up" @ Oscar's one night recently and thought he might just be helping out - no dear, as far as I know he still owns Oscars and runs the bar at LCR - nothing new here.

The owners of LCR (as they have been for a few years) must have been fully aware that David operated Oscars when they appointed him to LCR.

I get what you are suggesting - that David is deliberately failing to build the late-night trade at LCR in order to leave it to be picked up by Oscars - but quite honestly I don't see any difference now than from years before.

In my opinion LCR lost the late-night trade when they kicked the boys out at night - same as Suriwongse in BKK - and that was "pre-David".
Further, I don't believe they want the boys back - even if they did bring Punters in.

I don't believe the lack of late-night trade is down to Oscar's being open till 1.30-2.00am - so, frankly, I don't think your suggestion holds water.

All the above is my observations and opinions only, I don't claim to have any inside info.

And that's my shilling's worth!

:happy7:

[lonelywombat]

ASs I have been reprimande by Daboss I ask my posts [ all of them ] be removed.

[jinks]

ASs I have been reprimande by Daboss I ask my posts [ all of them ] be removed.


Lonley, removing ALL your posts would leave many threads without following sense.

If you mean it, the boss will remove you, be methinks not your posts.

My advise, have a rest, relax, unwind and rethink your position.

On most occations you deliver useful information and a few morons here resent the fact that you get around so much.

Think on it for a couple of months.

[newalaan]

ASs I have been reprimande by Daboss I ask my posts [ all of them ] be removedWhy have you been reprimanded? I cant see anything remotely contentious in your posts here. Even if you have been reprimanded, if it's not serious just ignore it and continue posting, why would you want to have your posts removed? If it is serious why has DaBoss not already deleted anything which has broken forum rules or deemed unacceptable.

[martin911]

ASs I have been reprimande by Daboss I ask my posts [ all of them ] be removed.


Lonely

Your posts als make good reading --and removing them will as Jinks says will bring a lot of confusion to some topics --
similar to when i was barred on Gay button --the "boss" there removed ALL my posts -- it made some topics look daft !--mind you some would say they were even dafter with my posts in there LOL

Have a rethink -- i was rep by daboss a while back --but i know he really didnt mean it !! :love4: :love4:

[giggsy]

ASs I have been reprimande by Daboss I ask my posts [ all of them ] be removed.

Well Well Well, Welly Welly Welly, Wellity Wellity Wellity (sic)...Old Wombat has waited years for a new owner and new moderation on this board so that he and his imaginary friends can post freely and look what happens. Whoever said "be careful what you wish for.
What about posting on the Gay Seoul Website? it could be a good Korea move. :evil4:

[lonelywombat]

cut and paste from gaybutton.com


Went to pick up friend returning from 3 weeks overseas , the last 6 days in Pattaya His comment was as usual he stayed close to Boyztown and his hotel was full.He ate most nights at Sizzlers as he likes the salad bar and misses his veggies
In BT had early evening drinks at Serene which was not as crowded and was more "outside' than Panorama [ his words]

On the bars, Happyplace and Funny boys always crowded, he does not like being sqeezed into a bench with people he does not know, went only early to check out talent .
He found Vassa and Splash interesting Toyboys and A Bomb friendly and looked in only at the rest. These four got almost all of his trade.
He liked the WWB shows and went several nights to the late show

Late nights afterhours drinks he had at Oskars and usually had a chat with David the former owner . Apparently the bar was not sold as he thought but he did not like to ask any questions.David is still assistant manager at CR

His comment about BBB and Copa was they looked tired and seemed uncaring whether people came or not, called in to each but decided to not stay for the show.This trip he gave Cafe Royale a miss, he remembers CR from the days of the two Ians and Robbie and it is just a shell of what it used to be.

Daytimes he alternated between lunch/coffee at Royal Garden and the other one nearly opposite. He always found someone with a nice smile and time on their hands.

In previous years he used to sit on the patio of CR and watch the world go by.
Now daytime is very quiet in soi 3 and not as vibrant at night time .

Two interesting observations he made-

The Buddhist church[sic] owned all the land on the south side of the soi including Serene down to but not incl the 7/11. He wondered if they had any input to the lack of nude swimmers in the Copa and previously Splash pool.He had heard that the girly bars in Walking Street had no restrictions, so it might not be BIB but the landlord. Whatever if he owned Copa he would try and move heaven and earth to get nude swimming approved. it would be worth the extra tea money.

He claimed that there had never been any nudity in soi 3. I know that to be wrong.

There was an additional para that seems to have vanished.

Going back to when BBB was boys beautiful boys before it became tits and tiaras starring Madam Jim , there was a naked shower show every night at midnight where the naked boys struggled to contain their erection in one hand and wash themselves with the other. Those were the days when they had a talent for the selection of stunning young men and one of the great pleasures sitting opposite or adjacent to where the boys fluffed up or were fluffed before going on stage. Ah memories.

He stated if he were Madam Jim he would sack himself and replace him with someone who could recruit and retain some handsome talent. Put the emphasis back on boys.

I am reminded of a lecturer on public speaking being asked What can you do when the congregation goes to sleep during a sermon?

He replied get a big stick and poke the speaker with it.

[DragonMaster]

I don't post here often, but I do read the forum often and I'm amazed at some of the posts I see from members who don't have
the most basic idea of what it takes to run a business either here in Thailand or elsewhere.

Some of you who bash the businesses in BT appear to live in a myopic haze of cheap drinks and young boys, and would be
better suited to stay in Sunee Plaza or Jomtien. I have spent the last four weeks in Pattaya with a few days in Bangkok and
had a great time. As NYGeorge put it, some of you are overly impressed with your importance here and would probably
complain if the drinks were 50 baht. As NYGeorge pointed out drinks in New York are expensive without a show, as are drinks
in Washington DC. People come to Thailand to have a vacation and as Neal points out, to look at the young men and enjoy
their company. I happen to like asian guys, and don't see that many of them in the bars in DC, which is why I fly halfway
around the world to come here. I've been coming here a couple of times a year, for the last 7 years, and yes, Pattaya is
changing, and in some cases not for the better with the influx of misbehaving Russians coming in and running out of the bars
without paying their bills, or stuffing checks into their socks so as not to pay for their drinks. This is something I have
witnessed personally while being here this trip and had never seen before. It's a damn shame!

I had the opportunity to stop by and meet Neal and take a look at his bar on a couple of occasions. I think he has done a
great job with the space that he has, and the bar and staff are very friendly. I stay at the Copa while I'm here, because
the owners are friends of mine and I am bothered by some of the posts I see which constantly bash the Copa and BBB. Maybe
some of you haven't gotten it yet, but The Copa Showbar is just that, a showbar. It is not a meat market for the ex-pat
community to gaze at prime young cuts of beef. Same goes for BBB. While both bars have GG boys, that is not their main
business. What's so difficult to understand about that? As for Bangkok and Soi Twilight, I spent three days mostly hanging
out at Dream Boys and had a great time there. Great service, good shows, and plenty of very good looking guys. First drink
330 baht, drinks after 280 baht, off fee 500 baht. Average cost per visit, a little over 4,000 baht. Why? Because I'm there
to have a good time and enjoy the experience. It is obvious that when I retire, I won't be able to do this so often, but
I'll still be able to do it once in a while and that's what counts. Enjoy the years you have left and stop being so bitter!

One final note. LW stated that Copa should have nude swimmers and go out of their way to get that approved. For what? In the
past seven years, I've never seen the boys nude either at Splash or Copa, nearly nude yes, but never nude. I know this is a
hard concept for some of you, but Thailand is ruled by laws, although some can be stretched with a fee here and there. Full
on nudity is against the law in Thailand as is prostitution, and although "tolerated" can be very costly for bar owners in
terms of their business if a crackdown occurs. Some of you also probably do not know that there are several police
organizations which are active and monitor the bars. The Pattaya police operate under a special directive and are allowed to
operate in Pattaya, however the Royal Thai Police can, and do go everywhere, and can come to Pattaya and shut down any
business that is in violation of Thai law. The fact is that you, as a foreigner, are a guest here and cannot do as you wish.
If you push the envelope too far you pay a heavy price, so give the bar owners a break and enjoy their efforts to make this
a fun place to visit. If you just have to see boys wanking and waving in front of you, go to the nearest pharmacy, grab
yourself a pack of Kamagra, find a good Thai porno, and make a vist to Gay Romeo or better yet, take matters into your own
hands.

[Neal]

:notworthy:

[witchhunt]

In other words you are saying that what did happen in the soi in years gone by is of no interest to them, they are a show bar and not a meat market. The concerns raised by this thread is of no interest and BBB feels the same way.

The gay community can go to hell. We are in show business not meat markets.

Thank you for putting it so clearly on their behalf and I suppose you speak for BBB and Cafe Royale.

[newyorkgeorge]

I wouldn't know about the price of a Big Mac in any country, just because i am American, doesn't mean i eat at Mcdonalds, you obviously do, says it all really. I'm sorry, i didn't realise you said estimated, maybe next time bring a calculator, and then you can be 100% accurate.

[newyorkgeorge]

The gay community can go to hell. We are in show business not meat markets.

I'm sorry Witchunt, where in his post does he state that? just another bitter ex-pat.

[jcowle]

I don't post here often, but I do read the forum often and I'm amazed at some of the posts I see from members who don't have
the most basic idea of what it takes to run a business either here in Thailand or elsewhere.
{The whole text was quoted without need - if you agree say so don't make the thread longer than needed - jinks}



Well said, :bounce:

JC

i would also like to thank gthai .. as a person who has no intrest in show bars his responce to this topic saves me the bother of going there ... :alc:

I could maybe accept the extremely tenuous "Copa is a show bar, not a meat market" assertion more readily if they did not have numbered go-go boys on the stage in between the shows.


BTW, since Gthai is quoting prices - I'm hard pressed to restrict my evening's entertainment Bill to 4000B in Copa (since it's 3000 for a bottle of JWBL alone).
Clearly I'd be cheaper in Dream Boys Bkk


:occasion9:

[lonelywombat]

Well straight from the horses mouth so to speak. As far as the three big businesses in Pattayaland Soi 3, things are not going to change. Not much good complaining about Boyztown any more if the 2 biggest and original bars now consider themselves show bars, are only paying lip service to the meat market and one at least is trying to attract straight tourists to stay in their hotel. Seems to be only a matter of time before the boys in underpants with numbers are discarded as not part of the image they want to create. Maybe its time to take down that arch , get rid of go go in show bars and put an extra show instead.

Often we read in the press about "the brand" ,Pattaya has been built on Boyztown brand , a gay mecca which now comprises 3 beer bars one end and two gogo the other end. It is sad to contemplate that if any of these 5 venues close they will not be replaced.

I am sure that it has been stated on this forum Soi 3 wanted to control the prices charged in bars and off prices. If they are no longer gay venues what business is it of theirs

The amount of money spent updating bars in Sunee might now start to pay dividends.

[DragonMaster]

Witchunt,

Yes, I did read the subject heading and I said nothing about the Gay community going to hell, and I'm not speaking on behalf of BBB, CafeRoyale, or Copa. Maybe if you take a closer look at what I said at the end of the quote, it will be clear. Both bars have GoGo boys but it is not their main business. In order to survive in this economy, some changes have to be made. Trying to depend on on a group of ex-pats whose only interest is getting laid at the cheapest possible price is not the way to keep a business running. I'm just pointing out what should be obvious. Keeping the businesses the way they were in years gone by for the sake of nostalgia would be the perfect way to shut them down. The economy has changed dramatically as well as the tourist trade, it is a fact whether it suits you or not, and businesses have to change to accomodate the market in order to stay profitable. Get it???????

Scottish-Guy,

As I mentioned above and will point out one more time. Both bars have GoGo boys but it is not their main business. Yes they run around on stage with numbers on their underwear, and yes you can off them the same way as a GoGo bar, but if it wasn't for the shows that bring in the customers, the bar would probably close in a short time.

[DragonMaster]

LonelyWombat wrote:
Well straight from the horses mouth so to speak. As far as the three big businesses in Pattayaland Soi 3, things are not going to change. Not much good complaining about Boyztown any more if the 2 biggest and original bars now consider themselves show bars, are only paying lip service to the meat market and one at least is trying to attract straight tourists to stay in their hotel. Seems to be only a matter of time before the boys in underpants with numbers are discarded as not part of the image they want to create. Maybe its time to take down that arch , get rid of go go in show bars and put an extra show instead.

Often we read in the press about "the brand" ,Pattaya has been built on Boyztown brand , a gay mecca which now comprises 3 beer bars one end and two gogo the other end. It is sad to contemplate that if any of these 5 venues close they will not be replaced.

I am sure that it has been stated on this forum Soi 3 wanted to control the prices charged in bars and off prices. If they are no longer gay venues what business is it of theirs

The amount of money spent updating bars in Sunee might now start to pay dividends.

Another assumption by someone who obviously knows nothing about what the businesses are doing in BT. All of the businesses have regular meetings to discuss what's going on, and try to work together to make sure everyone survives. What makes you think that the businesses are no longer gay venues. Stop with all the whining and moaning for God's sake and get a life! If you're so smart at figuring out what's good for Boyztown, why don't you come over here and try running a business instead of second guessing everyone elses.

.... Keeping the businesses the way they were in years gone by for the sake of nostalgia would be the perfect way to shut them down. The economy has changed dramatically as well as the tourist trade, it is a fact whether it suits you or not, and businesses have to change to accomodate the market in order to stay profitable. Get it???????

Yes dear, I get it.

Now, do you get it that none of the businesses you mention has materially changed in the slightest?

Some have had cosmetic refurbs, but the content is exactly the same as it was, say, 10 years ago (some will say longer).

For example, Copa is churning out exactly the same format that "Throb" did (except it's less entertaining and more expensive), whilst BBB has been reprising the same stuff from as far back as I can remember. As for the beer and gogo bars in Soi 3 - no significant change whatsoever.

So, if you could indicate in what way businesses have "changed" (apart from increasing prices), I'd be more than interested. Please do not include the revolutionary change in LCR changing the waiter's shorts for long trousers - we've been down that road already.

On another point, it's fairly insulting to expect us to believe that a periodic feature of the "Soi 3 meetings" is not to fix how much is to be charged and what is to be sold - some of us have heard it from the horse's mouth.

:occasion9:

[colmx]

Another assumption by someone who obviously knows nothing about what the businesses are doing in BT. All of the businesses have regular meetings to discuss what's going on, and try to work together to make sure everyone survives. .

I always thought that these meetings were to discuss the cartel pricing!

[UncleTom]

Some photographs (not upload DaBoss but hyperlinked, save's valuable space)
All this talk of "horse's mouth" and "cartels"

Would that be a "Horse and Cart-el"
http://www.kieranoshea.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/horse_cart.jpg

And this is what a Thai meat market looks like
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3180/2419843055_b46202a7cb.jpg

[Beachlover]

Trying to depend on on a group of ex-pats whose only interest is getting laid at the cheapest possible price is not the way to keep a business running.
Maybe their time has passed and it's time to let go...


why should thailand be cheaper than any where else,,,,,, If new york, london, sydney, ect were the same price as thailand , then why in the hell would people fly half way round, apart from the weather
Poor logic... Cost is only part of the value proposition. I fly part way around the world to destinations, which are more expensive than my home city all the time. I would still go to Thailand if it were more expensive than my home country, though maybe not as often.

[newyorkgeorge]

I could maybe accept the extremely tenuous "Copa is a show bar, not a meat market" assertion more readily if they did not have numbered go-go boys on the stage in between the shows.


BTW, since Gthai is quoting prices - I'm hard pressed to restrict my evening's entertainment Bill to 4000B in Copa (since it's 3000 for a bottle of JWBL alone).
Clearly I'd be cheaper in Dream Boys Bkk


:occasion9:
Actually, it's 2800,i was in there last night.

[newyorkgeorge]

The amount of money spent updating bars in Sunee might now start to pay dividends

Is there another Sunee Plaza somewhere? the only one i know of is a dump.

[aot871]

IM told that even the cafe has once again put up their beer prices , it now costing 140bht for a bottle, the cartel must have had another meeting.

[a447]

Gthai wrote:

but if it wasn't for the shows that bring in the customers, the bar would probably close in a short time.

Yes, it would, judging by the type of "boy" BBB expects to attract gay tourists. The are too old, disinterested and, for some weird reason, outfitted in JEANS!!

I can see guys in jeans without shirts walking down the street - no need to pay for it.

As I posted in my Pattaya report last week, I went to BBB and saw the show. It was outstanding, especially the Tina Turner act. Laid them in the aisles. It was standing room only. But....after the show, everyone got up and left. Few showed any interest in the "boys."

I cannot understand the logic of the owners, dressing the guys in jeans. Gay customers want to see tight jocks with a bulge - at least I do. I can go to any other bar and see that.

... I went to BBB and saw the show. It was outstanding, especially the Tina Turner act.....

OMG - a Tina Turner act - how do they manage to keep thinking up such fresh and topical material!

Did "Liza Minnelli" make an appearance, or somebody dressed half as a man and half as a woman?

Or even some screeching tranny with blacked-out teeth?

:laughing3:

[lonelywombat]

Certainly it seems that if the go go does not form part of their business plans and they are only kept as a meat market got aging expats, then replacing gogo with an extra show would make sense. The unwanted meat fetish expats could take their trade elsewhere and you could have the capacity to attract more straight tourists into the still quaintly named Boyztown.

[colmx]

Agree with LW above
If BBB has now become a "show Bar" then why do they only have a show once a night?
And why such a late show seeing as most your preferred clientelle are 70++ (besides the obvious fact that they need to wait for tiffany/Alcazar to finish)

Splash boys on Soi 1 has shows at 8,9,10,11,12 each night
Each show has 20+ customers (in a small bar) and is relatively packer (similar to Neals HP)

Slash also have probably the cutest and friendliest bunch of boys in all of pattaya... That actually dance when it comees to gogo!
One wonders why the old school insists on following the same tired old formula!

We visited BBB once on my last trip and BF met a guy that he had not met in 10+ years that was working as a Gogoboy there... and has worked at least 15 years on the scene
He is now 38 (older than me!) and said he was going to retire in 3 years

In my opinion he should have gotten his pension book as soon as he reached 65KGs!
Worst part is he is traight... not a genuine gay boy (still) looking for love...

[a447]

Scottish-guy wrote:

OMG - a Tina Turner act - how do they manage to keep thinking up such fresh and topical material!

It's all about trying, in this case, top cater for the clientele.

I mean, as Colmx wrote:


most your preferred clientelle are 70++

But NOT ME!!! I'm not 70++. Honest!

S-G, "Tina" got a standing ovation. She was brilliant -"gre~t" even! I reckon everyone in the bar could relate to her. It was more of a comedy act. BTW she also got the most applause at the Tiffany Show. See? Even some Russians have good taste.

As for your Liza - well, we have Jim doing his act. Block your ears and you couldn't tell the difference. I mean, have you seen Liza on T.V. recently??

A447 I don't doubt that this particular Tina Turner act may have been particularly good - the trouble is we've seen the same variation on a theme a million times before!

Which neatly brings us back to the title of the topic!