retire in thailand .. some say no ..

i started to post this on another thread but after taking so long typing it i decided it needed a thread of its own .. sorry if its been done before..
this.. i like thailand but i dont think i could live there full time is a bit of a strange one for me ... i liken it to the ... you love playing golf but once you retire theres no way you could play it all the time argument .. i dont play golf bty :crybaby:
taking the golf anology ... it means tho you enjoy it if you did it all the time it means you would no longer enjoy it ... that must be why golfers dont play golf when they go on holiday !!
in the same way i guess if you are a sex tourist in pattaya after 3 or 4 weeks of sex you go back home and dont have sex again because you are tired of it ( or as the case here maybe you cant get it up again for another year ) thats some members on the board not me .. as im not a sex tourist ... ok time to stop digging ..
back to the golf .. and living permantly in thailand .. i personally think its total bullshit ... how many people would rather work in an office or a factory than play golf if their passion in life is golf ??
why wouldnt you want to live full time in thailand ..if you love to holiday here as one member has stated hes been 60+ times in 18 years ... im sure some would say they don think they could handle it full time .. why not .. when you get to retire its not like you'd be living like you where on holiday 24/7 ...some say they would like to live in a place they have never visited before ..but not sure where .. how could anyone say that ? would you rather live somewhere you had never been before ?? are you sure you'd love living there .. what would be your reason to live full time in a place you had never been too?? rubbish ...
why do some people jump off balconys in pattaya.. because they have run out of money ... because they would rather be dead in paradise than alive in their home country .. except the arabs they will never find 20 odd virgins in the paradise called pattaya ..
so id say dont write off thailand as a place to retire to.. be aware when you retire you will be 50+ 60+ so its not like you are 20 odd and still wanting to rule the world .. you will be looking to kick back and take it easy .. and thats one of the things its very easy to do in thailand ..
so i ask why would you choose to or choose not to live in thailand ??
p.s sorry if its a bit rambling .. ive had a wee drink .
yikes ive just re-read that .. i mean wee in the scottish sense im not into yellow snow :happy7:

[pong]

yes-it is all right you say. The best warning is: do NOT overhastily jump into it. Maybe even just try out without burning all ships back home. I for myself have found that combining the 2-and omitting the bad part of the Thai year-with the rains, sticky heat etc, is the best. Try out for a full year-and see how utter boring, stifling hot and lazy the low seasons can be. How utter boring Pattaya is daytime after the initial 2 weeks. That after a while you have seen all the boys. etc.
On gaybuttonthai there is ample more info on this and about the same discussion that maybe will be repaated here then.

[lonelywombat]

20 years ago it was my definite plan to retire in Pattaya and I bought my first condo with that in mind. A larger studio than I had seen when shoppind around , but I soon found I disliked living,eating and entertaining
[other than Thai boys] in my bedroom. 10 years later I reached nominal retiring age, and having decided I could not live in a studio I bought the adjoining and joined them into a one bedroom condo. I had a car space if I wanted to buy a car, but still much more than 3 weeks boring.

At home I live almost in the heart of the city,public transport runs past the front door, I am surrounded by very large parks and whilst we sometimes have 4 seasons in one day, I am very comfortable.

I have always been extremely interested in sport and we have 4 different professional football codes all with local teams , basketball and international cricket at all 3 levels, all regularly played within walking distance from my home.
The Australian Tennis Open, international athletics and of course the Melbourne Cup. Even if I dont attend any or all of those , the papers and TV are full of whats happening and I love it.

The theatre is another passion and we have world class ballet and opera companies, performing several seasons each year plus the latest shows from Broadway and the West End. Our local shows lose nothing in comparison with the West End and Broadway.

I dont cook, eat out every night and the range of fine dining places is as good as any city in the world.

The alternative of downsizing my lifestyle to live in Pattaya or else where in Thailand does not appeal I prefer to visit often because I can, whilst still enjoying the challenges and stimulations of living in a big city My biggest nightmare is to live in Pattaya, going to same bars in Sunee each night, sitting in the same deckchair at Dongtan, feeling excited if I can get 10 baht off a drink or an off boy for less than the going or accepted rate.

At 75 in good health I am still in need of a challenge in life and am not prepared to dumbdown my standard of living.

wombat thanks for the reply .. you really need to reread what you have written and ask youself what a contradiction it all is ... everything you have said you can do in your home town you can also do in pattaya !!!
theres plenty of everything you have discribed you do in oz you can do in pattaya .. do you bother doing anything other than going to the beach or trying to get a cheap off when in thailand .. or is it a case of im on holiday i cant be arsed to do anything ??
other than the 4 seasons in one day ..
there are plenty of different restaurants and bars in pattaya so im sure you cant visit them all in 3 weeks .. more than enough sports .. and even if you dont go to them im sure you could keep upto date on satalite ..
far from needing a challenge it seems to me you are very staid and happy to live a life you are used to .. nothing different ..
or do you go to a different bar ... resturant .. show .. every night of your life when at home ??
do you go to the beach there ?? if so do you sit at a different section everyday ??
do you entertain every night when your in oz ?? with different boys every night ..
this is why i posted my post ... im very intrested to find out opions and where they come from ..
ta

[lonelywombat]

wombat thanks for the reply .. you really need to reread what you have written and ask youself what a contradiction it all is ... everything you have said you can do in your home town you can also do in pattaya !!!
theres plenty of everything you have discribed you do in oz you can do in pattaya .. do you bother doing anything other than going to the beach or trying to get a cheap off when in thailand .. or is it a case of im on holiday i cant be arsed to do anything ??


Taking just one part ,live theatre, some on here would say you have Venue, Copa, Wildwest boys what more do you need. Perhaps a drag night at Bondi?
Mike from la Cage offered me a place in a minibus trip to Bangkok to see a symphony concert once a month. It did not appeal

A month of go go bars and drag shows is more than ample for me and like my friends in retirement, who planned to play golf every day, it loses the challenge and my interest very quickly.

I think Pattaya is good for a holiday but more than 3/4 weeks at a time not interesting.

The answer is easy as thinking where you want to die and how much will it cost you to die there I dont think I want to give up everything at home to die in Thailand what if I get altzhymas I feel sure well have euthenasia laws in Australia soon but I dont think Thailand will allow that sort of thing.

[allieb]

The answer is easy as thinking where you want to die and how much will it cost you to die there I dont think I want to give up everything at home to die in Thailand what if I get altzhymas I feel sure well have euthenasia laws in Australia soon but I dont think Thailand will allow that sort of thing.

You don't need euthenasia laws in Thailand. When you have had enough of life in Thailand its so easy to get yoursef murdered. Just Piss off a Thai.

I once had a dream of retiring in Thailand until I slipped deeper from the surface of dreams into reality and took off my rose tinted glasses. Dealing with a nation of people who can't loose face, have to have it all their way and corruption which rears it's ugly head at every opportunity is too much to deal with on a full time basis.

[lukylok]

I also think there is an ideal age to emigrate to another country, and that is quite some time before we get our pension. And not only to Thailand but everywhere. How many Europeans, getting their pension, leave for Spain, South of France, Italy or Morocco, only to come back a couple of years later, never having really settled down.
It is important to lead an active life in the new country to really settle down and create real local relations.

And now I am going to ruffle a few feathers : how many expats do you meet in Pattaya who have become bitter, despising anything tha├п, TIT ! , but unable to go back home. Or lost themselves in booze or "all you can eat buffet".

It might be interesting to run a parallel between the ratio of success story in farang/tha├п relationship and the really happy and fulfilled expats, having moved in the last part of their lives ?

[Marsilius]

As the poster referred to above (60 or so visits since 1993), I am encouraged to see that I am not, after all, alone in thinking that retiring to Thailand would be, in many respects, a horribly depressing prospect.

Thailand is wonderful at providing all the things one looks for in an enjoyable holiday, but fails to offer many facilities or to accept ways of looking at and living one's life that many from Western countries will consider basic requirements.

It's a lovely place to stay in for three weeks at a time. But I strongly suspect it would be impossibly frustrating and ultimately too mind numbing for permanent residence.

[painai2]

I'm in my sixth year of living here in Pattaya as a retired expat. I love it. I'm a gay retiree, the life here can't be beat. My hobbies are studying Thai, jogging, and enjoying the Gay life--keeps me occupied.

its funny how a few of you say its get to boring to quickly .. i'd have thought that life as a retired person anywhere would be pretty boring ... i cant imagine how a 60 -80 year old can keep himself amused in retirement by doing something different and new everyday !!! i dont think id be wrong to suggest you do virtually the same thing day after day with the odd treat here and there ???
i dont know if you are also aware pattaya stretches futher than boys town and sunee plaza !!
r.i.p. gary speed ....

[Marsilius]

its funny how a few of you say its get to boring to quickly .. i'd have thought that life as a retired person anywhere would be pretty boring ... i cant imagine how a 60 -80 year old can keep himself amused in retirement by doing something different and new everyday !!!....

That surely is a significant part of the whole point that some of us are making.

In 60 visits to Thailand - some pretty substantial in length - I've seen a great deal of the country and many aspects of its day to day life for farangs life and I simply cannot see how it is possible to "keep yourself amused... By doing something different and new every day".

That is, however, easily possible in developed countries with more diverse activities catering for most interests (but not Thai boys, I'm afraid, so necessitating those holidays!)

[Marsilius]

its funny how a few of you say its get to boring to quickly .. i'd have thought that life as a retired person anywhere would be pretty boring ... i cant imagine how a 60 -80 year old can keep himself amused in retirement by doing something different and new everyday !!!....

That surely is a significant part of the whole point that some of us are making.

In 60 visits to Thailand - some pretty substantial in length - I've seen a great deal of the country and many aspects of its day to day life for farangs and I simply cannot see how it is possible to "keep yourself amused... By doing something different and new every day".

That is, however, easily possible in developed countries with more diverse activities catering for most interests (but not Thai boys, I'm afraid, so necessitating those holidays!)

Marsilius you seem to be taking what i said out of context ... tho im not 100% sure ...
what i meant was i dont belive it is possible to find new and exciting things to do everyday for the rest of your life where ever you live ...
when you retire you just want to take it easy .. and id imagine just because someone has led a life of sexual depraved debautury doesnt mean they have to carry on that way just because they have chosen that place to call home ...
myself i cant wait to get away from england .. i hate the place .. full of scum bags who get looked after by a government that would rather look after all the worlds shit than its own pensioners .. i would be more inclined to call that corrupt than some of the underhand things they do in thailand ..
still each to their own .. im just looking for perspective .. cheers

[Marsilius]

I DO think that you have a far better chance of finding a wider range of things to occupy your time in a western country.

If, in particular, you have any interest in culture as we know it in the west, Thailand is simply a desert.

It always makes me laugh to read press releases reproduced word for word in the Pattaya Mail or, indeed, on boards like this one, where someone announces a trip to Bangkok or wherever to hear a "highly acclaimed and world class" singer, pianist or whatever. The artists in question are usually fifth rate at best - if they were any better they'd be performing in London, Berlin, Vienna, New York, etc. where they could make real money. In fact,the only truly world class musician I've ever heard of in Thailand was Russian pianist and conductor Mikhael Pletnev - and he, if you remember his precipitate departure from Pattaya a while back following an unfortunate misunderstanding with the city police, wasn't in Thailand in a musical capacity at all.

fair enough and maybe thats where i am easier going than most ... id rather go down the pub and watch a local group of amatures playing ... than going to watch world class artists all the time .. the atmosphere is what makes a night out for me .. and i think theres far more atmosphere in a crowded boozer than a 4000-5000 seated arena ... ive done the big shows .. give me a small intermit gig these days ... after a few beers even the worst band starts sounding good .... did you know i had such class too :evil4:
i belive culture is just another word for snobbery.... the better in bangkok irish bar next to sala daeng bts .. every friday ... you just cant beat it ..... aaaa fank you

[Brisboy82]

I don't know why you'd have to downsize to live in Thailand as your money will go a lot further there than at home.

A pension is about 300 dollars a week which is very difficult
To survive on and leaves nothing for enjoying the cultural activities on offer in western countries. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones but for most retirement means staying at home and doing nothing most of the time as there's no money to spend on anything other than retire.

And if you don't own your own home then try finding anything livable to rent in Australia for under 300pw and then how do you feed yourself?

If I retire in Thailand the cost of living will be one of my main reasons.

[lonelywombat]

The original post was about retiring to Thailand not barely surviving. Brisboy82 talk of $300 aus per week comes out between 30000 and 35000 baht per month. That is not retiring , not even surviving.

Many of the yanks living on social security, have filled forums for years bitching as the US$ went into free fall. They claimed several years ago they could not survive on 60000 bpm they have had to learn to live on just over half that.

[Brisboy82]

I don't know why you'd have to downsize to live in Thailand as your money will go a lot further there than at home.

A pension is about 300 dollars a week which is very difficult
To survive on and leaves nothing for enjoying the cultural activities on offer in western countries. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones but for most retirement means staying at home and doing nothing most of the time as there's no money to spend on anything other than retire.

And if you don't own your own home then try finding anything livable to rent in Australia for under 300pw and then how do you feed yourself?

If I retire in Thailand the cost of living will be one of my main reasons.

That's the point most people don't have a choice. For most people retiring means living on
A 300pw pension. It is barely surviving but it will go further in Thailand. I can live comfortably in Thailand on 30000 a
Month even on holiday.

As I said there's not much choice unless you're rich retirement pretty much equates to living in poverty in Australia. You are merely surviving but 30000 baht will
Be more survival in Thailand than in Australia where it won't even cover the rent.

[francois]

I can live comfortably in Thailand on 30000 a
Month even on holiday.
.

That does not seem like living comfortably. On holiday my expenses including rent are closer to 90,000. Just one night of frolic is 1000 TB. Dinner with the bf with wine is 1000TB.

[Brisboy82]

Regardless of how far your money goes in Thailand it will obviously always go a lot further than at home. If your money isn't enough in Thailand then you'd be even worse off at home. If you are surviving at home then you will be more than surviving in thailand.

[pong]

That does not seem like living comfortably. On holiday my expenses including rent are closer to 90,000. Just one night of frolic is 1000 TB. Dinner with the bf with wine is 1000TB.
IF you have to live on a smaller sum-then of course the way to do it is go Thai. That means NO wine with meals-plus I think the nr of boys who even really like that stuff (except for the booze in it-and thats weak for them) is minimal. A normal Thai meal with a beer-would cost 20-25% of that. And most likely tastier too.
But this discussion again shows that talking about money tells more about yourself as about the ''real'' cost- wombat, do not disdain people so easy who have to get by on less. A more fruitful debate is more about ''how to'' and what to do/scrap as bitching in red/yellow (pardon: yes or no).

[lonelywombat]

I don't know why you'd have to downsize to live in Thailand as your money will go a lot further there than at home.

A pension is about 300 dollars a week which is very difficult
To survive on and leaves nothing for enjoying the cultural activities on offer in western countries. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones but for most retirement means staying at home and doing nothing most of the time as there's no money to spend on anything other than retire.

And if you don't own your own home then try finding anything livable to rent in Australia for under 300pw and then how do you feed yourself?

If I retire in Thailand the cost of living will be one of my main reasons.

That's the point most people don't have a choice. For most people retiring means living on
A 300pw pension. It is barely surviving but it will go further in Thailand. I can live comfortably in Thailand on 30000 a
Month even on holiday.

As I said there's not much choice unless you're rich retirement pretty much equates to living in poverty in Australia. You are merely surviving but 30000 baht will
Be more survival in Thailand than in Australia where it won't even cover the rent.

Brisboy82 I have always assumed that the 82 represented your year of birth, but maybe it is just the way you write.

I dont think you know very much about pensions, old age or disability If you can live at the moment on 30,000 baht per month, I doubt if those of retiring age could.
You are not even existing over 65 if you have to live on 30000 bpm and have no health insurance. I have seen small rooms less that 12 feet by 10 feet wide shared bathroom no cooking facilities just room enough for a bed and not much more, that some expats live [exist] in .My expat friend is now paying 5,000 pounds PA for his health insurance and not everything is still covered. In Australia I have free hospitalization, free medical and medications.

Young men don't think of these things . I cannot imagine anything more frightening that living in a one room hovel, wondering where my next meal was coming from ,knowing that I needed medical treatment.

The original post was about retiring to Thailand. In my opinion he means retiring with dignity. Thats not what you are talking about.

[cdnmatt]

Loads of people retire up here with 30,000/month pensions. I can't see it being a very good life, but definitely better than sitting in Sydney with 30,000/month. At least up here they can still go out for dinner every once in a while, goto the bar for a few drinks, take small trips, etc.

As for retiring, I'd say Thailand is just as good as anywhere else. There's pros and cons to every place, so it's up to the individual. I could never retire in Pattaya though, because for me that'd be like retiring on the Las Vegas strip, or in the red light district of Amsterdam. Fun for a couple weeks, but after that, you're done. I don't think I'd want to live here all year around though. Have a nice house here that you call home, but travel for several months out of the year.

EDIT: Look, this guy lives in Bangkok for 9000/month.

http://migrationology.com/2011/07/cost- ... -thailand/ (http://migrationology.com/2011/07/cost-of-living-in-bangkok-thailand/)

I am sorry but the thought of retiring on less than 200,000 baht a month would be pretty scary.

[Brisboy82]

I don't know why you'd have to downsize to live in Thailand as your money will go a lot further there than at home.

A pension is about 300 dollars a week which is very difficult
To survive on and leaves nothing for enjoying the cultural activities on offer in western countries. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones but for most retirement means staying at home and doing nothing most of the time as there's no money to spend on anything other than retire.

And if you don't own your own home then try finding anything livable to rent in Australia for under 300pw and then how do you feed yourself?

If I retire in Thailand the cost of living will be one of my main reasons.

That's the point most people don't have a choice. For most people retiring means living on
A 300pw pension. It is barely surviving but it will go further in Thailand. I can live comfortably in Thailand on 30000 a
Month even on holiday.

As I said there's not much choice unless you're rich retirement pretty much equates to living in poverty in Australia. You are merely surviving but 30000 baht will
Be more survival in Thailand than in Australia where it won't even cover the rent.

Brisboy82 I have always assumed that the 82 represented your year of birth, but maybe it is just the way you write.

I dont think you know very much about pensions, old age or disability If you can live at the moment on 30,000 baht per month, I doubt if those of retiring age could.
You are not even existing over 65 if you have to live on 30000 bpm and have no health insurance. I have seen small rooms less that 12 feet by 10 feet wide shared bathroom no cooking facilities just room enough for a bed and not much more, that some expats live [exist] in .My expat friend is now paying 5,000 pounds PA for his health insurance and not everything is still covered. In Australia I have free hospitalization, free medical and medications.

Young men don't think of these things . I cannot imagine anything more frightening that living in a one room hovel, wondering where my next meal was coming from ,knowing that I needed medical treatment.

The original post was about retiring to Thailand. In my opinion he means retiring with dignity. Thats not what you are talking about.

That's exactly
My point. It's not enough to live on and yet that's what the pension pays so retirees have no choice. The average retiree lives below the poverty line it is a serious struggle. They have no choice in the matter
So better to live where the money will go further as it is not enough to survive in Australia.

It costs me 700 per week to barely survive in Australia so I don't know how I could survive here on a pension here as most retirees have to do.

I'm aware you can't live on it but people don't have a choice in the matter.

You Have a better chance surviving in Thailand where you can rent a decent
Place for 10000 baht per month vs in Australia where you pay 30000 per month for a one room flat that's barely inhabitable.

[Brisboy82]

I am sorry but the thought of retiring on less than 200,000 baht a month would be pretty scary.

If you think 200000 baht per month is a normal income then I am extremely envious as I don't know any full time working professional person in Australia who earns anywhere near that kind of money. That's more than 3 times the median annual salary here and Australia has one of the highest medians in the world. I earn less than half of that and my salary is considered quite good here.

Some of you guys live a truly charmed life.

Dunno where you shop in Brisbane matey but I just got home from the local IGA where my total spend for a loaf of decent bread Lawsons Seed & Grain 2 tomatoes 1 avocado so thats two days lunch with enough bread left over for day three plus enough bananas pears and apples for 3 days dinner was about 600 baht somtimnes I have to buy oats for my porridge plus milk plus olive oil spread for my sandwiches so whats my weekly spend maybe 1500 baht or say 7000 baht a month youse guys arent even trying when you talk about how much it costs you to live in Australia I might go out for a coffee every day say another 100 baht or 3000 a month god doesnt it get expensive living in Australia??!!!! Whinge whinge whinge moan moan moan my hot water bill for 85 days $122 or 1200 baht a month electricity probably the same.

I see some people here living off a retirement check of about $2,000 US a month and I am amazed. No, I am not bragging but I just have trouble figuring it all out. My rent is 25,000 a month for a small house and definately not in the best of areas. My car payment and before the car the baht bus came to about the same which was 25,000 a month. that is one round trip to Bkk Pattaya 3 times a week, 4 times rt to the beach and a rt each nite to the bar. It should be equivelent to a standard persons travel (I think). Now 7,000 baht a month for electric, 10,000 for a part time cook and 12,000 for maid. Well I am sorry but we are already up to 79,000 a month for a semi comfortable living. Now add in food, health insurance, medicine or other deductibles and I think we are near 100,000 baht. Shall we have the ability to go out to a "nive restaurant" twice a month and splurging on movies or some other type of entertainment?
I am sorry but 200,000 baht to me is not living in the lap of luxury! And I am NOT saying that that amount is what I do or do not live on.
I almost forgot! What about that occassional weenie we all like to get! The bar bill. Ugghhh! It seems that just to have a semi comfortable life, not even 200,000 is enough!

[Brisboy82]

I see some people here living off a retirement check of about $2,000 US a month and I am amazed. No, I am not bragging but I just have trouble figuring it all out. My rent is 25,000 a month for a small house and definately not in the best of areas. My car payment and before the car the baht bus came to about the same which was 25,000 a month. that is one round trip to Bkk Pattaya 3 times a week, 4 times rt to the beach and a rt each nite to the bar. It should be equivelent to a standard persons travel (I think). Now 7,000 baht a month for electric, 10,000 for a part time cook and 12,000 for maid. Well I am sorry but we are already up to 79,000 a month for a semi comfortable living. Now add in food, health insurance, medicine or other deductibles and I think we are near 100,000 baht. Shall we have the ability to go out to a "nive restaurant" twice a month and splurging on movies or some other type of entertainment?
I am sorry but 200,000 baht to me is not living in the lap of luxury! And I am NOT saying that that amount is what I do or do not live on.
I almost forgot! What about that occassional weenie we all like to get! The bar bill. Ugghhh! It seems that just to have a semi comfortable life, not even 200,000 is enough!

Well for starters you're the only person I know who has a maid!! I have also seen listings of what you can get for 25000 baht a month and the places are practically mansions. You can get a decent 1 bedroom flat for 10,000 baht a
Month and that's more luxury than a lot of us are used to.

I realise that 200000 baht a month isn't the life of a millionaire
But I am yet to meet anybody with that kind of income so you're a lot better off than just about anybody living in the west where cost of living is a lot higher.

[lonelywombat]

I am sorry but the thought of retiring on less than 200,000 baht a month would be pretty scary.

If you think 200000 baht per month is a normal income then I am extremely envious as I don't know any full time working professional person in Australia who earns anywhere near that kind of money. That's more than 3 times the median annual salary here and Australia has one of the highest medians in the world. I earn less than half of that and my salary is considered quite good here.

Some of you guys live a truly charmed life.


200,000 baht is equal to approx $A6666 per month $80,000 a year according to you , you earn less than $100,000 . so what is your point. You need to go to school and learn to use a calculator.

[Smiles]

" ... That's exactly (my point). It's not enough to live on and yet that's what the pension pays so retirees have no choice. The average retiree lives below the poverty line it is a serious struggle. They have no choice in the matter
So better to live where the money will go further as it is not enough to survive in Australia ... "
True, if the government pension is the 'average' retiree's only income source.
But I'm pretty sure that the 'average' retiree in The West (Australia included in that) does not live on a government pension alone. The 'average' retiree ~ definitely in Canada ~ also is assumed to have other income as well . . . whether it be a company pension, or personal savings or investment income or a combination of all of those things.
I doubt very much (in 'Western' countries at least) if a retiree living on simply a single government pension payment would be considered 'average'. In Canada he would be considered impoverished, and in dire need of extra government assistance.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but I would be willing to bet that most of the expats living in Thailand have more than a government pension as their only income source.

[Brisboy82]

" ... That's exactly (my point). It's not enough to live on and yet that's what the pension pays so retirees have no choice. The average retiree lives below the poverty line it is a serious struggle. They have no choice in the matter
So better to live where the money will go further as it is not enough to survive in Australia ... "
True, if the government pension is the 'average' retiree's only income source.
But I'm pretty sure that the 'average' retiree in The West (Australia included in that) does not live on a government pension alone. The 'average' retiree ~ definitely in Canada ~ also is assumed to have other income as well . . . whether it be a company pension, or personal savings or investment income or a combination of all of those things.
I doubt very much (in 'Western' countries at least) if a retiree living on simply a single government pension payment would be considered 'average'. In Canada he would be considered impoverished, and in dire need of extra government assistance.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but I would be willing to bet that most of the expats living in Thailand have more than a government pension as their only income source.

I think a lot of the older generation have accumulated real estate which helps them get additional income but my generation will struggle to do that if we are single. A small 1 bedroom apartment now costs around 300,000 dollars or 250,000 for a really crappy one. The Australian government gives us a 7000 dollar grant towards a deposit on first home. If you save a little yourself then you need to borrow about 230000. At 7.5% interest
The repayments are quite crippling for an average young single person.

The government is transitioning from the pension system to a retirement savings system. I pay the mandatory 9% plus additional 4%. According to the retirement calculator online I will retire with about 350000
Dollars which comes out to about 300-400 per week spread over the period of retirement. Pretty tough!

[Smiles]

Good points Brisboy.
Talking about western countries and the Great Financial Mess: I definitely agree that younger people these days, in these times, are looking at a rather different future in terms of their retirement income options.
Not sure what it will look like ~ I'll be dead soon. But if one hasn't done his homework properly vis-a-vis his old age, then it will probably not be a pretty picture.

[Brisboy82]

Good points Brisboy.
Talking about western countries and the Great Financial Mess: I definitely agree that younger people these days, in these times, are looking at a rather different future in terms of their retirement income options.
Not sure what it will look like ~ I'll be dead soon. But if one hasn't done his homework properly vis-a-vis his old age, then it will probably not be a pretty picture.

Exactly. I have 36 more years to go until retirement and I will try to
Invest wisely but who knows what will happen. Either way my money will go further in thailand than in Australia unless something really drastic changes.

[Neal]

A maid is only 12,000 a month or $400 US. For someone not able to do it themselves $400 isnt taht big of an investment.
She washes and irons all the bed sheets and clothes and cleans up all around the house. I gather that when you are older and a lot less able to do the things you were able to do as a younger adult...cooking, cleaning etc, having a maid to help, isnt that big of a luxury!

[lonelywombat]

Good points Brisboy.
Talking about western countries and the Great Financial Mess: I definitely agree that younger people these days, in these times, are looking at a rather different future in terms of their retirement income options.
Not sure what it will look like ~ I'll be dead soon. But if one hasn't done his homework properly vis-a-vis his old age, then it will probably not be a pretty picture.

Exactly. I have 36 more years to go until retirement and I will try to
Invest wisely but who knows what will happen. Either way my money will go further in thailand than in Australia unless something really drastic changes.

Well I was right you were born in 82. However if you are putting 9% +4% of your salary on top of the compulsory 9% from your employer, then the compound effect will be substantia over 36 years.l Are you in a government defined benefit pension scheme, or lump sum at 65 ANd the government has just announced an increase from 9% to 12% over 3 years.

But remember the $300 rent per week is dead money and paying rent for the rest of your life, means that Thailand might be your only alternative.

[Brisboy82]

Good points Brisboy.
Talking about western countries and the Great Financial Mess: I definitely agree that younger people these days, in these times, are looking at a rather different future in terms of their retirement income options.
Not sure what it will look like ~ I'll be dead soon. But if one hasn't done his homework properly vis-a-vis his old age, then it will probably not be a pretty picture.

Exactly. I have 36 more years to go until retirement and I will try to
Invest wisely but who knows what will happen. Either way my money will go further in thailand than in Australia unless something really drastic changes.

Well I was right you were born in 82. However if you are putting 9% +4% of your salary on top of the compulsory 9% from your employer, then the compound effect will be substantia over 36 years.l Are you in a government defined benefit pension scheme, or lump sum at 65 ANd the government has just announced an increase from 9% to 12% over 3 years.

But remember the $300 rent per week is dead money and paying rent for the rest of your life, means that Thailand might be your only alternative.

That's right if I am stuck paying rent
And never get the opportunity
To buy my own place then I won't be able to retire in Australia. I'm really hoping the real estate bubble
Will burst soon but I don't know if its actually going to
Happen. The only other option is to hope I will find a partner who will move in with me and we can buy a place together with the two incomes. Until either of those things happen I am pretty stuck in a rut.

I don't know exactly what will eventuate with my superannuation I will just have to wait and see. Yes my employer is paying the 9% and I pay the other 4

[lonelywombat]

From just reading your many posts on this forum, you seem to have travelled a lot and that is the reason you do not have the money to put down as a deposit. If you had your priorities right , you would have saved for your deposit and maybe worked a second job until that was achieved.




I think a lot of the older generation have accumulated real estate which helps them get additional income but my generation will struggle to do that if we are single. A small 1 bedroom apartment now costs around 300,000 dollars or 250,000 for a really crappy one. The Australian government gives us a 7000 dollar grant towards a deposit on first home. If you save a little yourself then you need to borrow about 230000. At 7.5% interest
The repayments are quite crippling for an average young single person.



I suggest you get off your ars like the "older generation did" work and save for a roof over your head as a priority. You work for the government so have security. .
What makes you think they got it easy. They worked hard . Try it and try saving.

As they say at business school . Make a plan and work your plan Im sure you remember that.

[Brisboy82]

From just reading your many posts on this forum, you seem to have travelled a lot and that is the reason you do not have the money to put down as a deposit. If you had your priorities right , you would have saved for your deposit and maybe worked a second job until that was achieved.




I think a lot of the older generation have accumulated real estate which helps them get additional income but my generation will struggle to do that if we are single. A small 1 bedroom apartment now costs around 300,000 dollars or 250,000 for a really crappy one. The Australian government gives us a 7000 dollar grant towards a deposit on first home. If you save a little yourself then you need to borrow about 230000. At 7.5% interest
The repayments are quite crippling for an average young single person.



I suggest you get off your ars like the "older generation did" work and save for a roof over your head as a priority. You work for the government so have security. .
What makes you think they got it easy. They worked hard . Try it and try saving.

As they say at business school . Make a plan and work your plan Im sure you remember that.

The difference is that until 10 years ago a house cost 3 times the average annual salary
Whereas now it costs 7-9 times the average annual salary. The older generation could afford a
Mortgage on a single salary.

When you spend 40% of your income
On rent it's pretty hard to save up enough to pay a deposit.

[lonelywombat]

You appear to have had at 3 overseas trips in the last couple of years, forgoing those until you had your own roof over your head , would have got you close to a deposit. 40% of your salary on rent, have you not heard of location, location,location.

If you were serious about saving for a deposit, cut your trips and move somewhere cheaper. If you are in Brisbane I am surprised at the figures you quote, unless you are close in.

Dont forget those older generation also married had kids and still found the deposit for a home.

[Brisboy82]

You appear to have had at 3 overseas trips in the last couple of years, forgoing those until you had your own roof over your head , would have got you close to a deposit. 40% of your salary on rent, have you not heard of location, location,location.

If you were serious about saving for a deposit, cut your trips and move somewhere cheaper. If you are in Brisbane I am surprised at the figures you quote, unless you are close in.

Dont forget those older generation also married had kids and still found the deposit for a home.

There's nothing near public transport that is within a 1 hour commute of work for much less than 300pw. Brisbane is now more expensive than Melbourne it's getting very expensive.

If I could I'd leave Australia forever right now and never come back but I have no prospects of I do that.

It's also hard to think about retirement when it's so far away and I might be dead by then.

As for the married with kids thing. My grandparents generation bought houses for next to nothing and had
No mortgages and my parents generation generally had
Double incomes.

There's nothing near public transport that is within a 1 hour commute of work for much less than 300pw. Brisbane is now more expensive than Melbourne it's getting very expensive.Jeez you talk a lot of rubbish Brisboy82 your a real Moaning Minnie here's a list of places for under $300 a week in South Brisbane and that's only a 10 minute walk across the bridge into the city and I only looked at one suburb http://www.realestate.com.au/rent/betwe ... 101/list-1 (http://www.realestate.com.au/rent/between-0-300-in-4101/list-1) I know some of its for students or share but theres plenty there and as I say only one suburb I didnt even look at the Valley or other places.

[cameroncat]

" ... That's exactly (my point). It's not enough to live on and yet that's what the pension pays so retirees have no choice. The average retiree lives below the poverty line it is a serious struggle. They have no choice in the matter
So better to live where the money will go further as it is not enough to survive in Australia ... "
True, if the government pension is the 'average' retiree's only income source.
But I'm pretty sure that the 'average' retiree in The West (Australia included in that) does not live on a government pension alone. The 'average' retiree ~ definitely in Canada ~ also is assumed to have other income as well . . . whether it be a company pension, or personal savings or investment income or a combination of all of those things.
I doubt very much (in 'Western' countries at least) if a retiree living on simply a single government pension payment would be considered 'average'. In Canada he would be considered impoverished, and in dire need of extra government assistance.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but I would be willing to bet that most of the expats living in Thailand have more than a government pension as their only income source.

Smiles, you hit the nail on the head. I just took early retirement at age 55 (no choice, I got layed off after 25 years) and my pension will only be about $1750 per month. But I have other investments and nice amount in the bank from an inheritance and my home is paid off. I can rent it out for additional income. My main problem will be getting affordable health insurance until I'm old enough for medicare. I'm considering moving to Thailand for the next 10 years where the cost of living and medical care is cheaper. At 65, I will get medicare, social security plus my 401k, and would consider moving back to the U.S. (Unless the Republicans succeed in taking over the government and putting all gays in "re-education internment camps). I would surely hope one could get by somewhat comfortably on 60,000 baht a month if you avoid moneyboys and drinking. You don't have to spend 30,000 a month on rent, even in Bangkok. I know a very clean apartment building in Sukhumvit right by the BTS where you can get a one bedroom apartment for about 12,000 - 15,000 as long as you don't mind not having a full kitchen. I don't cook anyway LOL

[Brisboy82]

There's nothing near public transport that is within a 1 hour commute of work for much less than 300pw. Brisbane is now more expensive than Melbourne it's getting very expensive.Jeez you talk a lot of rubbish Brisboy82 your a real Moaning Minnie here's a list of places for under $300 a week in South Brisbane and that's only a 10 minute walk across the bridge into the city and I only looked at one suburb http://www.realestate.com.au/rent/betwe ... 101/list-1 (http://www.realestate.com.au/rent/between-0-300-in-4101/list-1) I know some of its for students or share but theres plenty there and as I say only one suburb I didnt even look at the Valley or other places.

I have inspected all of those properties and some only accept students and others have share bathrooms. My budget is 250-300 per week and there's nothing much in that bracket

[Neal]

well I would like to know where he came up with the 3 times his salary for a house and now 7 - 9 times his salary!
I have a house in USA that I have been trying to sell and the 1.3 million is now $650,000 so it sould be cheaper than ever to get real estate now than before.

[Brisboy82]

well I would like to know where he came up with the 3 times his salary for a house and now 7 - 9 times his salary!
I have a house in USA that I have been trying to sell and the 1.3 million is now $650,000 so it sould be cheaper than ever to get real estate now than before.

Yes the bubble has burst in the USA an it's a hell of a lot cheaper than Australia. That's exactly what I hope will happen here. The USA real estate bubble burst is worldwide news. So far in Brisbane
It has declined 5% but no big bubble burst yet.

[cdnmatt]

brisboy, do what the rest of us do, and learn how to make more money. If you were born in 82, that means we're basically still the same age. Loads of good years in you left to start bringing in better cash. Start a small business in your part-time, and see what you can do with it. Many millionaires have been made that way.

lonely, you're being fairly harsh, don't you think? It's quite a bit different of a world than what you grew up in during your working years. For example, take my parents. Dad took two years of college (instrumentation technology), and I think a year later they bought their first house. Nothing fancy, but a nice, decent family house to raise their first born. Nowadays, the chance of that happening is 100% impossible.

Nowadays, 2 years equivalent of instrumentation technology, and you'll be LUCKY to get a $50,000/year job, which can't afford you a decent life in the west. You'll be lucky to afford a parking stall, let alone a house. And more realistically, will be working at Best Buy because you don't have a choice, and basically living in poverty.

Again brisboy, don't rely on the government for pensions and shit. Learn how to make your own money, and invest wisely.

Well, each to his own, said the old maid as she kissed the cow.

I've been retired in Chiang Mai for almost ten years now, and I love it. One of the most important reasons shows up in Marsilius' signature, which speaks very highly of peace and quiet and very unfavorably of anger and strife.

I've never been a concert-goer or an anything-goer. I much prefer to get my culture in the privacy of my own home, where I can play Mozart and Bruckner all I want, and read widely on a huge variety of subjects. My life-line here is Amazon, and, more recently, the Amazon Kindle DX. Not infrequently, I can have the "book of the moment" on my Kindle in minutes, and postage costs are history. My social life is more or less confined to my friends (two Shan, one Akha, one American). I find that life in Chiang Mai proceeds slowly and peacefully. My major worry these days is not Thailand, but the outside world: Europe and its financial crisis (when will that volcano blow?) as well as failed countries like Iran and Egypt, where all signs point to the current governments stealing everything not nailed down in fear of the next revolution. Egypt is on the verge of a mass famine, which is not going to be pretty. Somebody, someday, is going to do something about Iran and its nukes.

I'm very glad to be away from all that, but I also understand clearly that retirement in Thailand is not for everyone. Myself, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

:party

What is instrumentation technology cdnmatt?

[Brisboy82]

brisboy, do what the rest of us do, and learn how to make more money. If you were born in 82, that means we're basically still the same age. Loads of good years in you left to start bringing in better cash. Start a small business in your part-time, and see what you can do with it. Many millionaires have been made that way.

lonely, you're being fairly harsh, don't you think? It's quite a bit different of a world than what you grew up in during your working years. For example, take my parents. Dad took two years of college (instrumentation technology), and I think a year later they bought their first house. Nothing fancy, but a nice, decent family house to raise their first born. Nowadays, the chance of that happening is 100% impossible.

Nowadays, 2 years equivalent of instrumentation technology, and you'll be LUCKY to get a $50,000/year job, which can't afford you a decent life in the west. You'll be lucky to afford a parking stall, let alone a house. And more realistically, will be working at Best Buy because you don't have a choice, and basically living in poverty.

Again brisboy, don't rely on the government for pensions and shit. Learn how to make your own money, and invest wisely.

I think you're right. I guess as we are the same
Generation you live in the same world as I do which is different from the world of our parents.

My parents bought their first house together in the early 1990s witn an income of 20,000 a year each. My stepdad had a block of land which he paid 17000 for and they built a nice 4 bedroom house for 50000. Total cost of
67000 to repay with a combined income of 40000. In todays terms that ratio would be like paying 130000 dollars for a house with a combined income of 80000. And yet the cheapest houses start at around 250000 for an old fibro shack or a one room studio apartment.
I do plan to Find ways to invest money wisely and make the best future that I can with the resources I can create. I intend
To think outside the square and look at a variety Of options.

My parents now have a very nice 500000 dollar house but nothing else. They will be relying on a government
Pension when they retire in about 15 years. I hope to do better than them by investing differently.

[cdnmatt]

What is instrumentation technology cdnmatt?

To be honest, I don't really know. You think I would considering both my dad and brother took it.

For example, you know the control room in say an oil refinery? They're learn all about that, inside and out. The gauges, switches, pressure valves, control flows, etc. And just all the different processes, gauges, and instruments used to check for lethal gasses, ensure oil is flowing properly through the pipeline, ensure everything is at the right temperature, etc.

The jobs can range from installing methane sensors in office buildings (shitty job), to helping design an offshore oil platform (good job).

I think that's what it is at least, although could be wrong.

[Manforallseasons]

Retirement anywhere is what you make of it. I've lived in Thialand sine I was 50, I have a wonderful social life, great standard of living, quality Heath care when needed, nice climate. The one negative for me is I've never cared much for Thai food and unless I am in Nakon Nowhere it's not an issue. The thought of retirement for a gay man my age in the west sends chivers down my spine.

[firecat69]

Retirement anywhere is what you make of it. I've lived in Thialand sine I was 50, I have a wonderful social life, great standard of living, quality Heath care when needed, nice climate. The one negative for me is I've never cared much for Thai food and unless I am in Nakon Nowhere it's not an issue. The thought of retirement for a gay man my age in the west sends chivers down my spine.
Interesting discussion which I will try to add something to. I am from the USA and retired for the last few years. I am used to a nice standard of living in the USA and Montreal where I lived for 7 years. This latest crash of the real estate market allowed me to buy a downtown loft for 25% of its selling price 4 years ago. I was able to pay cash and now my total expenses for housing including condo, fees, elec, water, cable, internet, real estate taxes, etc etc is under $700 per month. It is an 1100 sq foot loft with high ceilings, 1 1/2 baths , living room,new kitchen , bedroom and small office. I moved in 6 months ago. The previous 2 years I lived in Bangkok where my 1 Bedroom apartment on the river cost me 45,000 baht a month with maid service. Now I know I am comparing renting with owning but the fact is that apartment cost me 2x as much as my present apartment. Even if I factor in the lost earnings on my cash used to purchase, it is still far cheaper. Also anything comparable in Bangkok would cost me at least 4x as much to purchase. I am familiar with Pattaya and could not get anything comparable to my apartment in Bangkok for less. Chiang Mai maybe 20% less but transportation sucks if you don't use motorbikes and I don't.

I like Thai food but also like western food. Almost any western food in the supermarkets is far more expensive in Thailand then the USA.
Cereals, deli meats, cheeses, grapes, peaches, apples, pears etc etc etc are much more expensive. I can get many nice meals in the USA for $20 or about the same 600 baht I would spend in a nice restaurant in Thailand. Now sure if you are going to eat street food or in small Thai restaurants in Thailand then your eating out costs can be much lower.

Transportation is less in Thailand and movies are less. Now I have been visiting Thailand for 20 years and spent extensive time in Bangkok, Pattaya and Chiang Mai. I love the country and the people, but in all honesty I especially love the availability of boys at a price that is far lower then in the USA.

I moved back to the USA because the health of my father is failing and frankly I am now eligible for Medicare. I still will spend about 100 days a year in Thailand . I agree there are wonderful hospitals in Thailand but they are are all far more expensive then FREE. In Thailand the older you get , it becomes impossible to get health insurance and even if you can with pre exisiting condition clauses , it is basically worthless.

Bottom line because of the real estate bubble explosion in the USA, I now find it far cheaper to live in the USA then Thailand. If I was able to import a few hundred Thai boys to my city then I would never take those ridiculous 22 hour flights again.

Since that is not possible I will continue to make 3 trips a year to Thailand and be much more celibate when in the USA. LOL

So 3 years ago I might have said that Thailand was cheaper to live in at my standard of living then most USA cities. Now I find it less expensive to live in the USA with side trips to Thailand.

Two points come to mind when considering retiring in a place like Thailand:

1/ Try not to leave your brain behind at home, otherwise you will slowly see your ATM being milked.

2/ It all may look and feel great at the onset, but you might not stay fit and mobile well into your old age so unless you have the money or the right medical insurance which covers both medical and home help (if required) then you could, if you do become infirm find yourself unable to cope, and very much alone.

so other than about 6 posts about why someone would retire to thailand its been a bit of a slagfest still never mind still time for some decent reasons

[Manforallseasons]

so other than about 6 posts about why someone would retire to thailand its been a bit of a slagfest still never mind still time for some decent reasons


Unless I've been reading a different retirement thread I only noticed one idiotic remark, certainly not a "slagfest". Just interested, as retirement is specific to an individuals wants and needs.....don't you not have your own?

Just a comment...


But remember the $300 rent per week is dead money

Well, I've heard that many times, but as a lifelong renter I think that paying rent is not exactly "dead money." You do get value for your money: i.e. a roof over your head.

In my own case, I had to be a renter because I changed addresses so often. Not just addresses, but countries.

And it turns out that I'm probably the only person in my family who hasn't been burned by the housing meltdown in the U.S.

Historically (over the past 100 years), housing in America has kept up with the cost of living. Period. I know a number of people of my own age who have been badly burned by buying into the American housing market during the last ten years ("because real estate only goes up.") Some of them are getting ready to file bankruptcy, and others are just "walking away" from their glorious "investment" in real estate. It is definitely not a pretty picture.

That is to say, my generation (the "boomers") just took an $8 trillion haircut in housing prices, and another $6 trillion in their mutual funds. Not a pretty picture, especially when you thought you were all set to retire.

By the way, I am currently renting a 3-BR, 3-story townhouse in a very nice neighborhood in Chiang Mai for 13,500 per month. That's about $USD 450. This suits me just fine.

[kittyboy]

yes-it is all right you say. The best warning is: do NOT overhastily jump into it. Maybe even just try out without burning all ships back home. I for myself have found that combining the 2-and omitting the bad part of the Thai year-with the rains, sticky heat etc, is the best. Try out for a full year-and see how utter boring, stifling hot and lazy the low seasons can be. How utter boring Pattaya is daytime after the initial 2 weeks. That after a while you have seen all the boys. etc.
On gaybuttonthai there is ample more info on this and about the same discussion that maybe will be repaated here then.

I am pondering a retirement in thailand in a few years. 7 months thailand 5 months in the US. My monthly budget for thailand is the following:

18,000 rent
12,000 entertainment
12,000 booze
18,000 food
15,000 misc
75,000

I know some people have much more expensive tastes than mine. I know some people believe that they must live in a large house. I know that some people believe that eating out everyday in a nice place is an absolute necessity. I know that some people could not live without going to the bars everyother night. Fine I understand that not everyone would want to live by the constraints my PERSONAL budget. Having said that I think 75,000 baht a month as a retirement budget in thailand is very generous and reasonable. But other individuals thoughts would be amusing to hear.

[cdnmatt]

Having said that I think 75,000 baht a month as a retirement budget in thailand is very generous and reasonable. But other individuals thoughts would be amusing to hear.

That's probably exactly what we spend, but that's for both Kim and myself, and 3 dogs. And honestly, I consider that expensive, as do most farangs around here, not to mention my neighbors think it's extremely high.

10,000 - bills (rent, electric, water, internet, cable TV). This includes a large 4bdrm, 2 bath house vs. a studio or 1bdrm apartment in BKK / PTY.
15,000 - dogs
10,000 - house & unexpected stuff (soap, laundry, doctor / vet visits, new dishes, repairing something that broke, etc.)
40,000 - Kim & myself -- food, going out, etc.

Give or take, that's about what it is for us. We could easily live alot cheaper if we were on a budget though. For example, before I barely woke up today I was already out 700 baht because Kim just absolutely needed his lottery ticket fix. The dogs don't need to eat market food every second day, Kim doesn't need to play cards with his friends, I don't need my nice imported food like lemons, bell peppers, etc. We could easily cut back to say 50,000/month, and still maintain a good, worry free life with several nights of going out, etc.

All depends on where you live, and I'm sure downtown BKK is more expensive. Up here at least though, if you're living on your own, then 75,000/month would net you a pretty good, comfortable lifestyle. Granted, I don't have any giks though, but Kim is about 20,000/month say, so that's quite a few giks right there for ya.

[christianpfc]

By the way, I am currently renting a 3-BR, 3-story townhouse in a very nice neighborhood in Chiang Mai for 13,500 per month. That's about $USD 450. This suits me just fine.
Compare this to Europe: I recently read an offer for rent in Paris: 8 sqm (in words: eight) near the Panth├йon, 7th floor no lift, cold water, toilet outside, for 300 Euro per month (~ 400 USD, ~ 12,500 THB). I kept this the page from the publication, as proof if people don't believe me. But I think this is not necessary, I was talking with British friends about student accommodation in the UK, where rent is often quoted per week, and they thought 80 GBP (~ 4,000 THB) per week is a good offer.

Numbers from my hibernation (Dec 2010 - Feb 2011) in Bangkok: 4,000 THB rent, total expenses per month 40,000 THB including side trips (Pattaya, Laos, Koh Samui) and the one or other visit to a bar/disco/sauna/massage. I thought I could live on 20,000 THB per month, but there are so many distractions, the money just disappears (but I have records where it went).

I don't drink alcohol, I don't smoke and I don't keep pets and I restrict myself to one drink (usually water) per bar (because I don't go out to drink, but to see the boys)

[Brisboy82]

My usual holiday budget when I come to Thailand is 50000 baht for what I consider a very frivolous trip with drinking and partying all night every night.

One time I rented an apartment in Bangkok for 8 months. The rent was 5000 baht per month and other expenses such as food and entertainment came to a total of 20000 baht per month. My total monthly spend was 25000 baht per month for a lifestyle far more comfortable and frivolous than the relatively basic existence in Australia that costs me three times as much. I also was able to afford trips to chiang Mai and Laos and Cambodia.

I had a great time and did not want to go home.

"My usual holiday budget when I come to Thailand is 50000 baht for what I consider a very frivolous trip"

Out of interest how long would the length of that trip be then that you've mentioned above ? - and I don't ask this to be nosey or to comment on your spending patterns in any way but just to try and see / compare how ridiculous (or not perhaps) I think my own spending ends up when I hit TL as whilst I intentionally try to not think about money too much and just get on with it (as I'm on holiday!) - and that isn't my trying to imply that I've got so much of the stuff that I don't HAVE to care as that's not the case ( unfortunately) I just always chose not too bother thinking about it ! But every single time I arrive back home and eventually look at my bank and credit card statement I ALWAYS end up thinking to myself WHAT, HOW MUCH !! and I swear that I must have been robbed somewhere ! - until I then sit down and start doing a quick tot of the number places, guys, offs, great nights out, trips to other places etc etc there were and then go "hmmmm ok, maybe I wasn't robbed after all :-) and then swear to myself "ok thats it, never again" next time take it easy - until the next time comes and the cycle just seems to repeat itself lol.....but hey sure if I wasn't spending it there I'd only be spending it on beer and hookers somewhere (else) ......!! lol :-))

[gerefan2]

One time I rented an apartment in Bangkok for 8 months. The rent was 5000 baht per month
When was that? Thats 166 Bt a night.
Are you sure that is right for an apartment?

[Brisboy82]

One time I rented an apartment in Bangkok for 8 months. The rent was 5000 baht per month
When was that? Thats 166 Bt a night.
Are you sure that is right for an apartment?

2009. Rented trough www.thaiapartment.com (http://www.thaiapartment.com) have a look and you will see there's heaps of places around 5000 baht per month.

Just like anywhere in the world renting an apartment longer term is a hell of a lot cheaper
Than a hotel or guesthouse.

When I stay in a guesthouse I pay between 500 baht and 1200 baht for comfortable aircon room. But long term can rent an apartment for a small fraction of that.

[Brisboy82]

"My usual holiday budget when I come to Thailand is 50000 baht for what I consider a very frivolous trip"

Out of interest how long would the length of that trip be then that you've mentioned above ? - and I don't ask this to be nosey or to comment on your spending patterns in any way but just to try and see / compare how ridiculous (or not perhaps) I think my own spending ends up when I hit TL as whilst I intentionally try to not think about money too much and just get on with it (as I'm on holiday!) - and that isn't my trying to imply that I've got so much of the stuff that I don't HAVE to care as that's not the case ( unfortunately) I just always chose not too bother thinking about it ! But every single time I arrive back home and eventually look at my bank and credit card statement I ALWAYS end up thinking to myself WHAT, HOW MUCH !! and I swear that I must have been robbed somewhere ! - until I then sit down and start doing a quick tot of the number places, guys, offs, great nights out, trips to other places etc etc there were and then go "hmmmm ok, maybe I wasn't robbed after all :-) and then swear to myself "ok thats it, never again" next time take it easy - until the next time comes and the cycle just seems to repeat itself lol.....but hey sure if I wasn't spending it there I'd only be spending it on beer and hookers somewhere (else) ......!! lol :-))

I meant to say 70000 rather than 50000. 500-1200 per day for accom. 300 per day for food. About 1200 per day for nightlife/drinking. I call it frivolous because I don't really follow a budget I just do what I feel like without worrying about
Money. It probably helps that I only like local food and the vendors and cheap restaurants make the best local food. I very rarely eat western food (even in Australia I usually only eat Asian food. Same when I travel in Europe I eat mainly Asian food).

After a 4 week trip I have spent about 70000.

Back in my backpacker days in 2006 I used to spend about 20000 per
Month for everything. All food, transport, accommodations. But my Thai friends gave me free accommodation sometimes
So that helped.

[Beachlover]

wombat thanks for the reply .. you really need to reread what you have written and ask youself what a contradiction it all is ... everything you have said you can do in your home town you can also do in pattaya !!!
You've got to be kidding right? Why don't you actually go through the things Lonely listed out and show us how each can be done in Pattaya?


there are plenty of different restaurants and bars in pattaya so im sure you cant visit them all in 3 weeks
Sorry, but Pattaya has absolutely nothing on cities like Melbourne (Lonely) and Sydney when it comes to good food and bars. You'd need to go to Bangkok to get anywhere close.



But remember the $300 rent per week is dead money
Well, I've heard that many times, but as a lifelong renter I think that paying rent is not exactly "dead money." You do get value for your money: i.e. a roof over your head.
Totally agree! I've always believed in separating the properties you invest in (rent out) and live in (rent) when logical.

Firstly, the kind of place you want to live in doesn't always make for the optimal investment. For example, I may wish to invest in landed property but have no wish to live in a house (I prefer an apartment). I may want to live in a high-end apartment with extensive facilities (i.e. over-capitalised) but this type of place might make for a horrible investment (high strata fees) - I get much better value as a renter.

Secondly, renting the place you occupy gives you flexibility in your planning as you have the ability to change locations (within the same city or to another city) as needed.

[Beachlover]

Brisboy82... Are you having us all on? This is all a bit ridiculous.

There's one solution to all your complaining... learn how to make more money. It's not that hard! Plus, you're young and have plenty of time! You seem to have focused most of your energy on living it up in Thailand and abroad before you've even established a solid financial base for yourself, or even planned how you'll do it. Now you're complaining things are too hard? Come on.

You should take a look at how millions of Asians struggle and survive before you bitch and moan about Australia. We've got it so easy here it's not funny. In Australia, when someone has to be a single parent, it means they get welfare. In Asia, it means no education and maybe no food, unless that kid happens to have a relative (me) who's willing to help out.

You say you hate the system in Australia and would rather live in Asia etc. but do you want to know the reality of it? At least in Australia, if you f*** up and need to be looked after, there's a lovely welfare safety net and you can get assistance etc.

In Asia, you're on your own. There's no welfare like that. You'll be living in a gutter with only your passport to differentiate you from the other poor. The irony is in this case, it's the person most likely to need this welfare who is complaining about the "system".


I don't know why you'd have to downsize to live in Thailand as your money will go a lot further there than at home.

A pension is about 300 dollars a week which is very difficult
To survive on and leaves nothing for enjoying the cultural activities on offer in western countries. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones but for most retirement means staying at home and doing nothing most of the time as there's no money to spend on anything other than retire.

And if you don't own your own home then try finding anything livable to rent in Australia for under 300pw and then how do you feed yourself?
Geez... Brisboy. Lucky ones? How do you feed yourself? No choice?

Have you ever heard of saving, investing and accumulating wealth like responsible people do? If you've worked for 40 years and have to rely on a $300/week pension, you've truly f**ked up. You keep saying most retirees have "no choice"... What a load of shite. They had a choice. They had decades of time to accumulate funds to retire on. What the hell were they doing? Sometimes you wonder if they deserve that assistance at all... it's like rewarding people for being morons.


If you think 200000 baht per month is a normal income then I am extremely envious as I don't know any full time working professional person in Australia who earns anywhere near that kind of money.
That's peanuts! It's $80k/year. Not that hard. Many of my friends who are working professionals passed that figure before their mid-twenties and are well into the six-figures now. Some of them actually started on $80k as grads.

I also have mates my age still earning $30-40k/year in retail/hospitality etc. and it's pretty clear they're there because they chose to be there via the decisions they made.


I'm really hoping the real estate bubble
Will burst soon but I don't know if its actually going to
Happen.
Why the HELL would you want that? It'll have a ripple effect across the economy and f*** up other things.

So far, there's been a small correction in most capital cities and hopefully that's all that will happen.

[christianpfc]

Numbers from my hibernation (Dec 2010 - Feb 2011) in Bangkok: 4,000 THB rent, total expenses per month 40,000 THB including side trips (Pattaya, Laos, Koh Samui) and the one or other visit to a bar/disco/sauna/massage. I thought I could live on 20,000 THB per month, but there are so many distractions, the money just disappears (but I have records where it went).



One time I rented an apartment in Bangkok for 8 months. The rent was 5000 baht per month and other expenses such as food and entertainment came to a total of 20000 baht per month. My total monthly spend was 25000 baht per month for a lifestyle far more comfortable and frivolous than the relatively basic existence in Australia that costs me three times as much. I also was able to afford trips to chiang Mai and Laos and Cambodia.

I had a great time and did not want to go home.

You out-economized me! Note to scottish-guy and others: there are people who can live on less money than I and have as much fuch as I.

But Brisboy is not economic with words:


My total monthly spend was 25000 baht per month

I can smell redundancy!

You out-economized me! Note to scottish-guy and others: there are people who can live on less money than I and have as much fuch as I.

But Brisboy is not economic with words:


My total monthly spend was 25000 baht per month

I can smell redundancy!Yes you can get studio rooms for that price in Bangkok I know of some off Pettburi Rd I rented there a few years ago a place called LA Mansion I think in Soy 5 and it was around 5000 a month but it wasnt a large room I found it by walking along and seeing the places that had a sign saying Room for Rent you can also find rooms on Craigslist http://bangkok.craigslist.co.th/apa/ but you are right christianpfc Brisboy82 is a total wanker.

By the way, I am currently renting a 3-BR, 3-story townhouse in a very nice neighborhood in Chiang Mai for 13,500 per month. That's about $USD 450. This suits me just fine.
Compare this to Europe: I recently read an offer for rent in Paris: 8 sqm (in words: eight) near the Panth├йon, 7th floor no lift, cold water, toilet outside, for 300 Euro per month (~ 400 USD, ~ 12,500 THB).
i would be worried about renting this place as an outside toilet 7 floors up seems like a disaster waiting to happen

wombat thanks for the reply .. you really need to reread what you have written and ask youself what a contradiction it all is ... everything you have said you can do in your home town you can also do in pattaya !!!
You've got to be kidding right? Why don't you actually go through the things Lonely listed out and show us how each can be done in Pattaya?


there are plenty of different restaurants and bars in pattaya so im sure you cant visit them all in 3 weeks
Sorry, but Pattaya has absolutely nothing on cities like Melbourne (Lonely) and Sydney when it comes to good food and bars. You'd need to go to Bangkok to get anywhere close.


i think you answered my question for me beachy ::
what i meant was im sure you could do any of the things lonely mentioned in pattaya without having to travel any futher than he would have to if in a bit city in australia so spending 90 minutes going to bangkok would be no different than taking a train to somewhere in his own city ...

[Beachlover]

Brithai... No offense intended but you have no idea.

Firstly, living in Pattaya when everything you want is in Bangkok would make for a shitty lifestyle. Pattaya and Bangkok are two separate cities with significant travel time in between.

No one "hops on a train" and travels two hours as a matter of routine in Melbourne (unless you really are piss poor). The most I've heard people traveling within Melbourne is around an hour. I rarely travel further than 30 mins in Sydney.

Secondly, why don't you actually go through Lonely's list and show how Pattaya or even Bangkok could satisfy that? I couldn't care less about most things on his list but I know for a fact, neither Pattaya or Bangkok has any of the lifestyle factors he likes in Melbourne!

Right now, if you want to see the Phantom of the Opera performed in Bangkok, you have to go to Siam Paragon and watch in on a cinema screen!

[lonelywombat]

Brithai mentions that I might have 90 minutes travelling . I did not mention it as a fact, but a maximum of 20 minutes to the CBD on public transport, that runs past my front door, every 4 minutes and that is in offpeak hours.

During the course of the day I read all 3 major newspapers and watch most news bulletins. Reading the news on the internet is not satisfactory .I am very interested in sport and politics which is not covered on the net or in Bangkok newspapers.

I am content that the major public hospital where I had my heart attack is 400 metres away..

But it is my decision not to live inthe slums of say Bang Kapi, Bkk as some expats have to do. I do not qualify for any form of pension from the Australian Government as I did not waste my money in my younger years with countless overseas trips . On a single salary I put a roof over our heads and put my boys through private school.

....On a single salary I put a roof over our heads and put my boys through private school.

I'm not sure what the point of that statement is - whether the accomplishment is admirable or not rests entirely upon the size of that single salary.

:dontknow: :dontknow:

bugger beachy ive been busted. theres no reason whatso ever to retire to thailand i shall be on the first plane to oz ...
cant wait to view some of these world class facilities !!!!
yes you are right about the shows but do you need to go watch that sort of thing all the time .. what does world class mean to you ?? id guess it means it costs a lot .. im pretty sure not so long ago you wrote that bangkok was one of your favorite cities in the world !!
as for reading newspapers etc i thought when you mentioned the sports ect that you love, lonely .. you meant going to watch such things rather than reading about them ??
as for lifestyle choices .. id have thought that once one has reached retirement it would be a case of slowing things down abit ??
or are you also experianced in that respect too :evil4:
im pretty sure when im 75 i wont be charging about like a teenager

sorry if ive rambled again im in a shitty french internet cafe and i cant work there keyboarbsoout to well ... p.s . congrates on getting by on one wage !!

[Brisboy82]

.

No one "hops on a train" and travels two hours as a matter of routine in Melbourne (unless you really are piss poor). The most I've heard people traveling within Melbourne is around an hour. I rarely travel further than 30 mins in Sydney. Your just talking thru your arse again man I got cousins all over some commute into Sydney for work every day from Central Coast and Woolongong thats two hours a day and the trains are full and in Melbourne my nephew commutes every day from Ballarat and the trains are full of working commuters like him not everyones a silvertail like you.

[Beachlover]

No one "hops on a train" and travels two hours as a matter of routine in Melbourne (unless you really are piss poor). The most I've heard people traveling within Melbourne is around an hour. I rarely travel further than 30 mins in Sydney. Your just talking thru your arse again man I got cousins all over some commute into Sydney for work every day from Central Coast and Woolongong thats two hours a day and the trains are full and in Melbourne my nephew commutes every day from Ballarat and the trains are full of working commuters like him not everyones a silvertail like you.
Oh... THOSE people. Yes, that's why I said "unless you really are piss poor". I'm well aware a large number of people commute to work in Sydney from the Central Coast etc.

That's called being stupid. Commuting two hours to work means you spend 10 hours a week on a train. That's 10 hours you could be using to catch up with friends, relationships, improving your health or being more productive/$$$. What kind of lifestyle is that? It's a dumb lifestyle choice that will inevitably lead to an even poorer standard of living further down the track.


im pretty sure not so long ago you wrote that bangkok was one of your favorite cities in the world !!
Sorry, but you're just being a moron and going around with an incredibly dumb and pointless argument.

I was comparing Bangkok/Pattaya with the needs Lonely put out. Not my own or yours.


But it is my decision not to live inthe slums of say Bang Kapi, Bkk as some expats have to do. I do not qualify for any form of pension from the Australian Government as I did not waste my money in my younger years with countless overseas trips . On a single salary I put a roof over our heads and put my boys through private school.
Well Lonely... as a young taxpayer, I thank you for not being one of the useless morons who relies on government welfare to get by in their old age!

[the1]

That's 10 hours you could be using to catch up with friends, relationships, improving your health or

Spending on SGT?

[aot871]

I retired just over 9 months ago just as the world stock markets fell , so im now living on about 65000bht after paying my uk tax. so unless i wanted to sell my uk house , theres no way i could afford to live in pattaya. At my age of 66 the medical insurance would be bloody awful , as i know friends who are paying about 4800 bht amonth, before they start.

[Brisboy82]

I retired just over 9 months ago just as the world stock markets fell , so im now living on about 65000bht after paying my uk tax. so unless i wanted to sell my uk house , theres no way i could afford to live in pattaya. At my age of 66 the medical insurance would be bloody awful , as i know friends who are paying about 4800 bht amonth, before they start.

I don't know why you'd want to retire in pattaya unless you plan to continue chasing moneyboys. I would
Think you'd be over that by then. Plenty of nice places to retire in Thailand away from that scene.

[lexusgs]

I retired just over 9 months ago just as the world stock markets fell , so im now living on about 65000bht after paying my uk tax. so unless i wanted to sell my uk house , theres no way i could afford to live in pattaya. At my age of 66 the medical insurance would be bloody awful , as i know friends who are paying about 4800 bht amonth, before they start.

AOT,

Why would not sell the house and rent/buy cheaper in Thailand. Your cost of living would half mate. If it's a major health scare you still have 5 yrs NHS cover after u leave the UK.

[Beachlover]

Sounds tough... If you did want to live in Thailand, would renting out your UK property provide enough cash flow to live on? Might have some surplus to save too.

[aot871]

I dont wish to retire to pattaya, while is ok to visit for holiday, theres no way i wish to live there full time

[latintopxxx]

most definitely would not live in Thailand full time...3 weeks at a time is all my sexual organs can take...would kill me...

[martin911]

most definitely would not live in Thailand full time...3 weeks at a time is all my sexual organs can take...would kill me...


Spending a lot of time in or actually living in the country is way way different from those 10 day /3 week visits --for a start off you no longer feel the need to frantically fuck all that you see that is attractive to you !!!!--- there are 30 odd days in most months --which means you have lots of leisure time before you chalk him up on your headboard ---- :bounce: :bounce:

You have the time to spend some fun time (in the comfortable surroundings of your home ) for most of the early morn-which usually stretches into early evening with the latest apple of your eye --rather than some shortime fuck in a hotel room ---

And after a relaxing sleep you can go out and do it all again (or not such is the luxury of the time )

Im surprised you are able to last the full 3 weeks Latin (and its a great pity (for your Victims ) that you do indeed survive !!)

No one "hops on a train" and travels two hours as a matter of routine in Melbourne (unless you really are piss poor). The most I've heard people traveling within Melbourne is around an hour. I rarely travel further than 30 mins in Sydney. Your just talking thru your arse again man I got cousins all over some commute into Sydney for work every day from Central Coast and Woolongong thats two hours a day and the trains are full and in Melbourne my nephew commutes every day from Ballarat and the trains are full of working commuters like him not everyones a silvertail like you.
Oh... THOSE people. Yes, that's why I said "unless you really are piss poor". I'm well aware a large number of people commute to work in Sydney from the Central Coast etc. Your saying that the hundreds of thousands of people who move to the Central Coast as a lifestyle choice really did it coz they are piss poor you really are a arrogant clown.

[lonelywombat]

[


]No one "hops on a train" and travels two hours as a matter of routine in Melbourne (unless you really are piss poor). The most I've heard people traveling within Melbourne is around an hour. I rarely travel further than 30 mins in Sydney. Your just talking thru your arse again man I got cousins all over some commute into Sydney for work every day from Central Coast and Woolongong thats two hours a day and the trains are full and in Melbourne my nephew commutes every day from Ballarat and the trains are full of working commuters like him not everyones a silvertail like you.
Oh... THOSE people. Yes, that's why I said "unless you really are piss poor". I'm well aware a large number of people commute to work in Sydney from the Central Coast etc. Your saying that the hundreds of thousands of people who move to the Central Coast as a lifestyle choice really did it coz they are piss poor you really are a arrogant clown.




That's called being stupid. Commuting two hours to work means you spend 10 hours a week on a train. That's 10 hours you could be using to catch up with friends, relationships, improving your health or being more productive/$$$. What kind of lifestyle is that? It's a dumb lifestyle choice that will inevitably lead to an even poorer standard of living further down the track.
Oh... THOSE people. Yes, that's why I said "unless you really are piss poor". I'm well aware a large number of people commute to work in Sydney from the Central Coast etc.




What a useless pair of pretenders and snobs have dominated this thread.
An asian lesbian and an out of work parking ranger.

Beachlover People who choose to commute 2 hours each way do it in the main for the healthy lifestyle thay have chosen. In Sydney the northern beaches, the blue mountains, the hobby and actual farms. It is no different in Melbourne or London or New York To put people down as piss poor because they dont want to live in gay ghettos is so childish. For over 50 years I have had friends and colleagues and long before laptops, who chose that alternative and were happy to do paperwork on the train and catch up with their reading. Nowadays you see so many working using laptops, on the trains including kids doing homework.

[Beachlover]

Asian Lesbian, Lonely?.... This coming from you, a dirty old fart who goes to Thailand to pay boys a quarter of your age for sex. Wonderful.

I get that some people might choose to commute an hour or so to work from somewhere beautiful like the Northern Beaches in Sydney, hopefully only 2-3 days a week. But commuting two hours to work everyday is just dumb. Most don't do it out of choice, especially if they're coming from the Central Coast. They do it because they can't afford the kind of place they would like closer to the city.

[witchhunt]

Asian Lesbian, Lonely?.... This coming from you, a dirty old fart who goes to Thailand to pay boys a quarter of your age for sex. Wonderful.



Why does miss beachlover want to insult almost every member and every visitor with his anti male tirades? Maybe justme should open a pussylicker forum for our sole lesbian. It is amazing she thinks people come to this forum to smell the flowers, and to read her opinions We dont need a preacher.

Thang God she is not the DaFactoBoss

Most don't do it out of choice, especially if they're coming from the Central Coast. They do it because they can't afford the kind of place they would like closer to the city.Can you quote staistics on that or is that just your opinion?

[Manforallseasons]

Asian Lesbian, Lonely?.... This coming from you, a dirty old fart who goes to Thailand to pay boys a quarter of your age for sex. Wonderful. (quote) Beachlover.

I guess the moderators missed this one. :dontknow:

[Neal]

I could switch him to his own forum but then he can't reply to every single thread! :dontknow:

[Manforallseasons]

I could switch him to his own forum but then he can't reply to every single thread! :dontknow:

Yes, I could only imagine what a loss that would be. :crybaby:

[Beachlover]

Lesbian and "anti male"... got to love how far out on a limb these people have to go. :rolling:



Most don't do it out of choice, especially if they're coming from the Central Coast. They do it because they can't afford the kind of place they would like closer to the city.Can you quote staistics on that or is that just your opinion?
Opinion and observation.

brithai wrote:
im pretty sure not so long ago you wrote that bangkok was one of your favorite cities in the world !!
Sorry, but you're just being a moron and going around with an incredibly dumb and pointless argument.

I was comparing Bangkok/Pattaya with the needs Lonely put out. Not my own or yours.

wow beachy you seem to be getting very aggitated these days .. .. any reason as to why ??
maybe you need a holiday to get away from it all .. maybe a week at home would do the trick ...
it must be getting you down spending your life in all these top end hotels enjoying yourself endlessly
do try to relax dear ....

Opinion and observation.No facts then just observation from someone who feels uncomfortable more than 5 km away from a David Jones store.

[andrewcraig]

Opinion and observation.No facts then just observation from someone who feels uncomfortable more than 5 km away from a David Jones store.


hahaha I am going to buy my mum a handbag from David Jones for Xmas. Have to be careful now, who knows might be shopping in the handbag department at the same time.

[Ron-Heng Vancouver]

Ben and I decided to live here comfortably and with great joy in Vancouver, living in Thailand abut 8-10 weeks a year (off and on as we visit other great places for gays like BA,Argentina) staying at his parents' home in BKK or living at one of the family's many condos in BKK or Pattaya at Jomtien Beach. Maybe we would rent in Pattaya to be downtown for 2-3 weeeks or so.The family asked, why would you ever buy anything here in Thailand? You have so many places to stay - nices places that would sell on the Thai market for $575,000K USD.

The postings here are informative and in general speak to the reality. Ben and I decided not to turn our nice lives upside down to move across to Asia! Our life here in Vancouver is perfect for us, with friends, beauty, gay friendly environment, plenty of Asian men to socialize with, not because we pay these guym, but because they sincerely want to be our friends. Together with almost free health care, great transit, and a fabulous city, we'll stay put. From our recent trips to Thailand, we see an increasing cost in real estate, food prices and over call costs. Ben, who is Thai, along with
his family harbor great fears for what Thailand might become when the King dies . This fact has to be taken into account as well.

Strange, majority of thai people we meet want to move here, and the white guys want to move there - how to make everyone happy

Many thanks for the informative posts,

To the DaBoss - love the new design of this page and the return to civility.
Hi to all of you.
Ben and Ron

[Beachlover]

Great perspective, Ron... Thanks for sharing.

Most Asian countries are inherently unstable. It feels like anything and everything you acquire can be whisked out from under you any moment. It's a less trustworthy environment to do business and make investments.

Asians crave stability and security. That's why many of the more successful ones want to move to Western countries. Or at least they want to move their families and assets to Western countries while they continue making money in Asia...

As for White guys moving to Asia, they crave lower cost of living, increased status, adventure and variety and other things. Most probably keep their asset base in their home country and they still have their home country passport so if anything goes pear shaped, they have an easy exit... They have the best of both worlds. But it's not the same for the locals.