My first head-on motorcycle smash

[newalaan]

After 12 years visiting Thailand it finally happened...my first head-on motorcycle smash. One year ago on our way back from Xyte, Pattaya the rear suspension of the motocy we were on gave way, although the driver wavered about the road, we didn't go over and he kept control and upright, with traffic passing right and left at speed I vowed never to use a motocy again in the early hours to get back to the room with the thought of what might of happened had we gone over with so much traffic around.

Since then we have always used songtaew bus or songtaew taxis, normal routine is flag down outside Pattayaland, Tuk-com or wherever, and rather than ask 'how much' to Hollywood, Tam Nan Chon or wherever simply say Bt100 to Hollywood ok? if the driver says no Bt150 then its final offer bt120 or pass, never need to pass.

Last week after having used songtaews all week and after only 3 large beers between us at Gra Nam (along from Hollywood, next to Tam Nan Issan) at about 3am we stopped in by 7-11 along from Gra-Nam for water etc to take back, with no songtaew in sight but plenty of willing motocys at 7-11, I was persuaded that 'only this once' to be a very reasonable arguement easily over-riding the previous vow, in favour of a quick run to day/night. The motocy driver looked sober and alert so off we went, not at great speed and headed along soi bochaw. It's a while since I had travelled the route from north pattaya using this soi and was surprised by the amount of activity after 3am, alot of bars still open and serving, alot of farangs still drinking, alot of activity and traffic, drunks crossing the road and walking at the edge. As we headed along a thai female suddenly walked out virtually infront of our motocy, the driver did well to avoid hitting her, she was blissfully unaware how close she was to serious injury as she headed across the soi in front of us.

So onwards about 200 metres round a corner to be met head-on by a drunk katoey driving out of the blue on the wrong side of the road, our driver had no chance to avoid, slow motion as the katoey with farang passenger careered head on into us, she was going quite fast....we were not, a huge smashing, noisy impact and both my bf and I leaping off as the bikes hit. I hit the deck knee first, my bf landing on top of me. We were very lucky indeed not to have come off head first, still don't know why we were'nt more seriously injured looking at the wrecks on the road. Our driver copped the worst from our side injuring his hand and arm, all five of us on the road...getting up I saw the farang passenger of the katoey was much worse off than us, his hand was mangled and bleeding the katoey was drunk and injured but was a big fella and managed to ignore his/her injuries enough to start shouting at out motocy driver for crashing into him/her!

Police motocy was there in about 2 mins, a police pick-up in about 5 mins, motorcycle taxi boss was there sharpish as were medics on motorcycle, they must hang around the soi bochaw area in wait for the inevitable. Good quality jeans meant only grazed/bleeding knee for me and scratches for the bf. We sat on steps at the other side of the road waiting for the police interview. The other farang must have been very drunk as he seemed to pay little heed to his injury, all focus was now on whose fault and how much...to pot with the injuries it seemed. At first the katoey claimed the farang was driving but police were put right by the bystanders and the motocy driver. Our driver asked for Bt2000 i would have asked for much more if i had been him, police tried to persuade the farang to pay now to avoid further trouble given it was their fault, there was alot of damage and of course the driver was drunk.

Our purchases at 7-11, of water and juice cartons were unscathed, plastic bags not even burst god knows how.....pure luck. Couldn't have put me off too much at the time as we accepted a run back to Mosaik on the back of the police motorcycle at a promised slow rate, very helpful the police were in fact. The rest of the time in Pattaya was songtaew only. I have never really liked the late night/early morning deal with the motorcycle taxis, from Hollywood to Day/night it's Bt60 for each so two of us on one motocy taxi still bt120, and no matter how good a driver, what can be done with another motocy driven by a drunk crashing into you. A songtaew is actually a good deal if 2 of you at Bt120 from Hollywood/Tan Nan Chon to Day/night. If 4 or more its a real bargain. So that will be my last late night/early morning motocy ride in Pattaya...EVER! When leaving a club early morning the money is a non-issue, i usually dont even know/ask how much it is/was as the bf sees to it, but i won't be taking a chance again, also i realised just how dangerous the soi bochaw run really is...its a long road with bars/7-11s either side of the road so alot of drunk pedestrian traffic crossing the soi all the way from north pattaya to pattaya tai/2nd road.

So apart from the safety issue, if there are two of you a songtaew is a better option from north pattaya to south cost wise anyway. Any others with tales of near misses or similar experiences? Are you a motocy or songtaew user?

[DCbob]

I always stay in my neighborhood. I live in Center Condo, so I have a very good neighborhood to stay in.
And you are right, automobiles bend ... heads break. Put me in the metal, rather than on it.

Oh my God alan! I am so sorry for you and hope that everything calms down for you!
I had one near miss long ago and one near spill. Never did a motorbike afterwards. My near miss was a motorbike in front of us made a right hand turn in front of a motorbike coming from the opposite direction and the near spill was me on the bike and we were coming on to the main road for Boystown from Sunee. When he made that right, the bike started to tip and my leg went down quick to stop it.

I had bought a bike afterwards and was re learning how to drive. I was doing ok. Then I realized that I had had an operation to bring a artery in my arm to the surface so that they could easily do the dialysis evry other day. I thought to myself, shit you are stupid. I take a spill and cut my arm and I am s=dead in 30 seconds! Never rode a motorbike since.

Again, glad you and your b/f are safe and ok and will be on Songtows now!

[MARK]

You are also lucky the police did not try getting a fine out of you and your taxi driver, bikes are now limited to two persons taxi driver plus 1 its there new way of adding up the tea money or maybe they think the bike has more control with the two riders it was built for.

[blazer]

You are very fortunate indeed to have survived that one. It is one of the most dangerous places to ride a motorcycle in the world, I imagine.

I have yet to figure out why there aren't real taxis in Pattaya, like in BKK. Do they have a taxi mafia there too?

The songtaews (baht bus type) are minimally OK, but I would rather ride in a real taxi!!

[Neal]

There are real taxis in Pattaya, plenty of them.
Also my b/f came home one night last month and said at 2 am he was walking on Thepasit Road and there was a red light. He saw a Thai girl driving a falang and they had stopped for the light. Along came a speeding car with an obvious drunk driver. Did not stop for the light and did not see the motorbike with the girl and falang on it and killed them both. He was quite shaken up as he had just witnessed it all.

[newalaan]

You are also lucky the police did not try getting a fine out of you and your taxi driver, bikes are now limited to two persons taxi driver plus 1 its there new way of adding up the tea money or maybe they think the bike has more control with the two riders it was built for.Yes Mark i thought so too, i must admit when I realised we were ok and sitting on a step at the side of the road when the first police arrived motocy, i did say to the bf nothing more we can do here lets go... one reason was that i knew 3 on a bike could be a problem and basically i just try to avoid any situation with police as they are so quick to take advantage of a situation. My bf insisted we stay to give a statement to the police regarding fault, as it was clearly the drunk katoey. So i was wrong to have tried to leave quickly.....the police did talk to my bf to confirm fault and that the katoey was driving. Secondly we got a lift back to Mosaik from the first police motocy, thay's two of us on the police bike plus the policeman...three!


There are real taxis in Pattaya, plenty of them.Im afraid there is not. Not all over Pattaya near late night discos and pubs there's not. The reason there's not 'plenty of them' available is fairly clear as the songtaew and motocy mafias control the Pattaya roads...no doubt about that.

The reason I posted was just a cautionary tale for others regarding one stupid decision i made after vowing never to use late night motocy taxis. My bf's claim of "just this once"might have easily been just my last. If one other reader or newbie takes onboard just how easy it is to hire/negotiate a songtaew as a taxi and often just as cheap if not cheaper instead of taking a motocy especially with a persuasive thai friend at 3am, then they might avoid what eventually happened to me.

I've ridden motocys with friends and taxis for a decade in Pattaya without any probs, until my experience after Xyte last year, up to then I had always considered the songtaew taxis to be rip offs probably based on the ones who line up outside Pattayaland sois who never give way on anything and i've seen them rip-off newby asians/japs/koreas charging bt500 for taxi services before. It was'nt til last year i realised how easy most of the rest them will negotiate. 9 times out of 10 our first offer of Bt100 to where-ever is accepted immediatly, if there are 4 or 6 of you together which there often is with us, then a taxi direct door to door is a bragain and so much easier.

[francois]

newallan; another cautionary tale from your experience is not to have 3 persons on a motorbike. I know Thais do this to save money but not wise for a farang. Never put all your eggs in one basket.

I first made a trip to one of the hospitals in Pattaya with a Thai way back in 1987, Pattaya was a lot smaller then but the hospital still had motorcycle victims passing through on a conveyor belt...However safe you may feel, getting on a motorcycle in Thailand you are putting your life in danger full stop, I'd rather walk. And as for three on board well enough said!

[bucknaway]

I think it was Monday night in the rain.when a motorbike crashed into the bahtbus I was on. The no one was hurt as I could tell... Then again that night I saw another motorcycle crash into a bahtbus near walking street and again, no injuries.

[newalaan]

newallan; another cautionary tale from your experience is not to have 3 persons on a motorbike. I know Thais do this to save money but not wise for a farang. Never put all your eggs in one basket.you may well be right francois.......but to be honest i'm exactly not sure what you mean with regard to 2 thais as passengers as opposed to a farang and thai as in my case....unless I am mistaken and there is a special arrangement for Thais only.....3 on a bike does not save any money for the passengers, with two passengers you simply pay double the rate for one, it is only in the motocy taxi drivers favour getting 2 fares for one bike, one fuel, one drivers time, so the normal rate of Bt60 for Hollywood to Day/night becomes Bt120 for two passengers on the bike...about the same cost as a songtaew taxi and that was one of the points I was referring to, I wasn't aware Thais saved money by doubling up.

however safe you may feel, getting on a motorcycle in Thailand you are putting your life in danger full stop, i'd rather walk. As for three on board well enough said! Nothing like a bit of exaggeration to try and get a point across is there.......i can't really agree with that statement at all, the simple act of getting on a motorcycle puts your "life in danger"? I dont think so, during the day I still use motorcycles for shorter distances if i need to and I dont have any qualms about that whatsoever, i was referring specifically to late night/early morning long distances when there are drunk drivers and pedestrians around,and that is the danger! my point was that there is the altnerative of songtaews at the same cost and that was the stupid part for me. A walk from hollywood to day/night along soi bochaw is no less dangerous at 3am! in fact I would describe that as more foolish. "Enough said!??" about what regarding three on a bike? the three on the bike was not the cause of the accident, the cause was a drunk katoey crashing into us! three on the bike or two on the bike would have made no difference to the fact there was an accident. In fact there is no doubt whatsoever I would have definitely been much worse off had i been the only passenger as the driver would certainly have been going much faster, in my experience bikes with 3 tend to be driven much slower and more carefully. The only reason I was concerned about three on the bike was, as Mark pointed out, the fact the police might have had an opportunity to take advantage of the situation.....BUT as I said in my post, we got a lift back to Mosiak after the accident on the back of a police motorcycle driven by a policeman (thats three of us Combat!).

[francois]

you may well be right francois.......but to be honest i'm exactly not sure what you mean with regard to 2 thais as passengers as opposed to a farang and thai as in my case....unless I am mistaken and there is a special arrangement for Thais only.....3 on a bike does not save any money for the passengers, with two passengers you simply pay double the rate for one, it is only in the motocy taxi drivers favour getting 2 fares for one bike, one fuel, one drivers time, so the normal rate of Bt60 for Hollywood to Day/night becomes Bt120 for two passengers on the bike...about the same cost as a songtaew taxi and that was one of the points I was referring to, I wasn't aware Thais saved money by doubling up.
s

I may then be wrong. I assumed people doubled up on a motorbike to save money. Two for one fare. I will ask my bf who is a motorbike taxi driver. I do know that the driver gets fined for taking two passengers if stopped by police. But, if both passengers pay full fare what benefit is there to not taking two bikes, assuming two bikes are available? Not being judgmental.

[Jellybean]

I was heartily glad to hear that neither you nor your boyfriend was hurt newalaan. The outcome could have been horrendously different. I am sure you both consider yourselves extremely lucky.

As you said, it is a cautionary tale for others. Hopefully those who currently use motorcycle taxis when coming out of bars and clubs will consider switching to the safer and only slightly more expensive mini-bus (soong teeo) /taxi.

The only occasion I use a motorcycle taxi is during the daytime when I leave my Thai school in Sathorn Soi 1 and head to Silom Road. I always tell the driver to drive slowly and always ask for a crash helmet. But IтАЩm still a nervous wreck. Perhaps I should just walk and not take the risk.

Even those that hold Advanced Motorbike Driving Licences at home will tell you it's not the motorbike driver that is the danger it's the other road users that are!
I stand by my original statement especially when one considers the standard of driving competence in Thailand, that motorcycles are accidents waiting to happen, and three on a bike is just asking for it as the drivers control of that vehicle is diminished whether his is driving slowly or not. The accident statistics for motorcycle accidents in Thailand are amongst the highest in the world, there are a lot of them agreed, but there are also lots of very bad drivers. It takes only one accident to ruin what was/is a very good holiday so my advice sticks, stay away from bikes in Thailand, use another form of transportation or walk, and do so even more in the rainy season.

..The accident statistics for motorcycle accidents in Thailand are amongst the highest in the world....


You seek out and study accident statistics for motorbike accidents in Thailand?

"A night out with Combat" sounds like a laugh riot.

:party

[Manforallseasons]

..The accident statistics for motorcycle accidents in Thailand are amongst the highest in the world....


You seek out and study accident statistics for motorbike accidents in Thailand?

"A night out with Combat" sounds like a laugh riot.

:party

I think her idea of a night out is putting her computer on sleep mode and going to the W.C.

My point is they are a dangerous form of transportation (especially motorbike taxis) in Thailand so why ruin a great holiday just to save a few minutes or Baht?

...it has nothing to do with 'searching out' you said that no one else did! Those that live in Thailand know it to be a fact without having to search it out. My point is they are a dangerous form of transportation (especially motorbike taxis) in Thailand so why ruin a great holiday just to save a few minutes or Baht?[/quote]

Now far be it for me to be pedantic and nit-picking - but are you now saying that you DON'T in fact have the statistics for road accidents in Thailand - but that you just "know it to be a fact" instead , and that your previous citation of statistics which you don't actually have was therefore entirely bogus?

I think we should be told.

:sign5:

I am also posting a link which although not an official one it makes a very interesting read:

http://www.thaiskale.com/journal/thailands-deadliest-killer-vehicle-motorcycle-accidents-and-fatalities/

I don't own a motor vehicle in Thailand and I only ever take a motorcycle taxi when I want to whizz round Sunee, past the Corner Bar, with the wind billowing up my kilt - or when I am in my latest disguise. I find this both exhilerating and greatly amusing.

What I was interested in was clarity.

:leb:

fair enough .. stick 200 baht in my pot and consider your charity work done .. cheers :nud:

[newalaan]

was heartily glad to hear that neither you nor your boyfriend was hurt newalaan. The outcome could have been horrendously different. I am sure you both consider yourselves extremely lucky. As you said, it is a cautionary tale for others. Hopefully those who currently use motorcycle taxis when coming out of bars and clubs will consider switching to the safer and only slightly more expensive mini-bus (soong teeo) /taxi.The only occasion I use a motorcycle taxi is during the daytime when I leave my Thai school in Sathorn Soi 1 and head to Silom Road. I always tell the driver to drive slowly and always ask for a crash helmet. But IтАЩm still a nervous wreck. Perhaps I should just walk and not take the riskThanks Jellybean we did consider ourselves very fortunate. That according to my bf was down to his regular visits to the wats/monks and donations, his 3 month kow-pansa regime as well as the buddha image he gave me years ago that I wear at all times. I didn't say anything about avoiding the accident in the first place and why his buddha didn't persuade us to go by songtaew.

The chances of an accident like mine happening certainly increases dramatically late evening and early morning thus my posting, but I wouldn't start wrapping myself in cottonwool a-la-combat just yet. My god walking around, crossing the road etc in Pattaya is dodgy sometimes but geez not to go on a motorcycle at all for fear of instant death is a tad dramatic. I use motorcycles during the day like you and always request a helmet despite the fact some are useless. Never ever had a problem during the daytime on motorcycles. I do tend to walk as much as possible but sometimes you just need to be somewhere a bit quicker and less sweaty.
three on a bike is just asking for it as the drivers control of that vehicle is diminished Is this a definitive answer based on scientific research, personal experience or purely something you plucked out of the air? I would say that driving while drunk as the kateoy was is more likely to be 'asking for it' as I said, had I been the only passeneger we would have still been hit except probably at a faster speed
My point is they are a dangerous form of transportation (especially motorbike taxis)
it's not the motorbike driver that is the danger it's the other road users that are! well make up your mind combat! is it the motocy taxis or other drivers?? sometimes i wonder what goes on in that confused little head of yours.

may then be wrong. I assumed people doubled up on a motorbike to save money. Two for one fare. I will ask my bf who is a motorbike taxi driver. I do know that the driver gets fined for taking two passengers if stopped by police. But, if both passengers pay full fare what benefit is there to not taking two bikes, assuming two bikes are available? Not being judgmental.Please let us know what your bf says on this, i would like to know if there is special dispensation given to thais just out of interest as I always assumed the double fare applied to all.

No problem with your question....it may help make things clear to others.....there is no real benefit to not taking two bikes. Double up is sometimes done just because there is only one bike available and would be the usual reason, happens alot around the busy times during the day in the less busy areas. Sometimes it is the taxi driver who will ask if ok to go 2 on one bike if there is maybe only one other driver left at the post. Sometimes its just the convenience of travelling together chatting as you go along, to be honest taxi drivers and bf usually sort this out and either point to two bikes or just get on behind me....no real hard and fast reasons sometimes....but never in my experience to save money, sometimes its just a sort of greng-jai consideration for the motcy driver if he asks or my bf offers, i'm not a heavy guy at 10.5 stone so two of us fit no problem.

Whether combat or others here believe/accept it or not...in my own experience I find 3 on the bike often safer as the driver always goes much slower and seems to take much more care driving and making manouvers etc... but thats just my own opinion/experience, i'm sure motorcycle experts here will put me right.

Whether combat or others here believe/accept it or not...in my own experience I find 3 on the bike often safer as the driver always goes much slower and seems to take much more care driving and making manouvers etc... but thats just my own opinion/experience, i'm sure motorcycle experts here will put me right.

That piece of nonsense speaks for itself, next you will be telling us that car drivers who drive with their little kids sat on their laps are much safer drivers because they too might drive slower........ :sign5:

... next you will be telling us that car drivers who drive with their little kids sat on their laps are much safer drivers because they too might drive slower........ :sign5:

I hereby declare that there are statistics to back that theory up - but I won't bother revealing them, because I'm telling you that everybody knows it anyway. So that's good enough.

Sound familiar?

LMFAO :laughing3:

[loke]

Never never never never never I go with motorbike in Pattaya .

I know I dont wanna gamble my life.

I go baht bus , if available. I tell boy you go bike , I walk some time .

Never never never never never I go with motorbike in Pattaya . I know I dont wanna gamble my life. I go baht bus , if available. I tell boy you go bike , I walk some time .

I applaud your good sense loke....

[francois]

may then be wrong. I assumed people doubled up on a motorbike to save money. Two for one fare. I will ask my bf who is a motorbike taxi driver. I do know that the driver gets fined for taking two passengers if stopped by police. But, if both passengers pay full fare what benefit is there to not taking two bikes, assuming two bikes are available? Not being judgmental.Please let us know what your bf says on this, i would like to know if there is special dispensation given to thais just out of interest as I always assumed the double fare applied to all.
.

The bf, who is a motorbike taxi driver, says two passengers pay twice the fare as one passenger.

[Beachlover]

Glad you're ok, Newalaan! Would be a real shame to lose you. :happy7:


I first made a trip to one of the hospitals in Pattaya with a Thai way back in 1987, Pattaya was a lot smaller then but the hospital still had motorcycle victims passing through on a conveyor belt...However safe you may feel, getting on a motorcycle in Thailand you are putting your life in danger full stop, I'd rather walk. And as for three on board well enough said!
I agree... I never get on a motorcycle in Thailand. Only very occasionally do it in other countries when situation necessitates.

To me, the risk outweighs the benefit. It's a personal thing so everyone will feel differently. I do find it ironic and amusing that someone who's just had a motorcycle accident is defending them so fiercely...

[Manforallseasons]

Glad you're ok, Newalaan! Would be a real shame to lose you. :happy7:


I first made a trip to one of the hospitals in Pattaya with a Thai way back in 1987, Pattaya was a lot smaller then but the hospital still had motorcycle victims passing through on a conveyor belt...However safe you may feel, getting on a motorcycle in Thailand you are putting your life in danger full stop, I'd rather walk. And as for three on board well enough said!
I agree... I never get on a motorcycle in Thailand. Only very occasionally do it in other countries when situation necessitates.

To me, the risk outweighs the benefit. It's a personal thing so everyone will feel differently. I do find it ironic and amusing that someone who's just had a motorcycle accident is defending them so fiercely...

I can understand the elderly guy that is familiar with Pattaya in 1987, but when I was 24 like you I couldn't wait ride a motorcycle.

[Beachlover]

Firstly, you're making assumptions about my age.

Secondly, just because someone's 18, 24, 25, 26 or 96 doesn't mean they have to be a moron and make moron decisions... I made a decision pretty early on that riding motorcycles wasn't a bright thing to do. Some of my friends of the same age are the same. Some disagree (and ride them).

[Manforallseasons]

Posted Jan.27, 2008

Your obsessive paranoia (which I think is cute) has led to a factually inaccurate statement. I was in my early twenties when I started posting here and am pretty sure I mentioned so at the time. Sadly, I'm getting older. Mid-twenties now.
Also, "mid-twenties" lasts four years from 24 to 27 so I've got four years of saying I'm in my mid-twenties before I succumb to my late-twenties. (quote) Beachlover.


I appologise for assuming you were 24.

[newalaan]

The bf, who is a motorbike taxi driver, says two passengers pay twice the fare as one passenger.Just noticed your reply Francois, thanks for confirming it.

quote 1 "To me, the risk outweighs the benefit. It's a personal thing so everyone will feel differently. I do find it ironic and amusing that someone who's just had a motorcycle accident is defending them so fiercely"...quote 2 "doesn't mean they have to be a moron and make moron decisions...i made a decison pretty early on that riding motorcycles wasn't a bright thing to do" From the above to this.....................
quote 3..."Only very occassionally do it (get on a motorcyle) in other countries when situation necessitates"Just as I find it ironic and amusing that someone who has weighed up the the risks and finds them in favour of NOT using one, claiming that riding motorcycles wasn't a bright thing to do and further claiming that it would be a decision only a moron would make to ride one.........then proceed to tell us that he does actually use them "when the situation necessitates" Now THAT is wonderfully hypocritical! and guess what? I only very occassionaly use them when the situation necessitates too BL! As you say ironic and amusing.....

wow! hypocracy*, moronity*, irony*, stupidity*, contradiction*, all in a couple of posts from Beachflooder. Forum gold from the anorak!


I agree..... I never get on a motorcycle in Thailand Next you will be telling us you have never, ever been on a motorcycle anywhere in Thailand, but be careful! before you answer as you'll need to search over 5,000 posts to make sure you dont contradict yourself!....yet again! we wouldn't want you to show yourself to be anymore thick*, clueless* and dim* than you have already done in this thread would we?

Note: *=all statements of fact as proved here by Beachflooder.......caringly noted, rather than intentional flaming or insults.

[Beachlover]

Oh Newalaan, you lovable, paranoid comic... Did you miss having kids to nag and lecture? Am I the child you never had? :rolling:

1. I've never gotten on a motorcycle in Thailand. I have in Cambodia, but not in Thailand.

2. Yes, I think it's a dumb thing to do for such a routine thing as getting home from a nightclub, which you've been to many times or going from A to B during the day in a densely populated area where lots of transport options (though they may be slower or less convenient) are available.