chaing mai vs pattaya

[aot871]

If you were undecided which place to visit which would u choose, chaing mai or pattaya and why?

[Dboy]

I'd have to say Chiang Mai, because there's so much more to do there...and that's especially true if you like outdoor activities. There's the national park to visit, the mae hong son - pai - chiang mai trip, Golden Triangle area. Northern food is great (Khao Soi being the CM "classic" dish). And if you have the time, rather than flying (1 hr), you could take the train up and stop at various places along the way ( Lopburi, Ayutthaya, Sukhothai). In my opinion, you'd get much more out of this sort of trip than doing the standard "taxi from airport to Pattaya" trip. I do like Pattaya, but that's a very different kind of trip compared to Chiang Mai. And, btw, you can have just as good an evening in Chiang Mai as you would in Pattaya...it's just that the scene is much different.

Dboy

[jolyjacktar]

Dboy i totally agree with you on that one. I always have fun in Chaingmai and the boys are real hot too.
I must admit thou i do tend to get to Bangkok and fly up as after the flight from the UK i just want to get to my Hotel by then. I visit Pattaya less and less these days and prefer Chaingmai.

[lonelywombat]

I get most of my info about Chiang mai from this excellent site

http://www.gayinchiangmai.com/News/

[Beachlover]

Totally depends on what you're after and how far you're willing to go... Pattaya is a pumping party town filled with tourists and prostitutes (though not exclusively)... can be pretty seedy and has a bit of a sleazy, "anything goes" atmosphere. Chiang Mai is more real and genuine.


I'd have to say Chiang Mai, because there's so much more to do there...and that's especially true if you like outdoor activities. There's the national park to visit, the mae hong son - pai - chiang mai trip, Golden Triangle area. Northern food is great (Khao Soi being the CM "classic" dish). And if you have the time, rather than flying (1 hr), you could take the train up and stop at various places along the way ( Lopburi, Ayutthaya, Sukhothai)...
I did all that backpacker stuff in and near to Chiang Mai a few years ago and had an awesome time but didn't really check out any gay nightlife during that visit. Haven't been back yet as it's a bit out of the way and Bangkok is always more convenient in terms of connections and travel time.

Think I'll be back to CM to check it out in the future... I know at least one nightclub where gays hang out and would love to know of any other bars and such (not commercial sex ones) in Chiang Mai.

[pennyboy]

I used to go to CM every year as part of one of my visits but gave up about 6 years ago as I found it boring.

Pattaya for me every time.

[Dboy]

I used to go to CM every year as part of one of my visits but gave up about 6 years ago as I found it boring. Pattaya for me every time.

The rest of this solar system is boring compared to Pattaya! Plenty of + and - to each place..they're just different. Things get going in CM late..like after 11pm. Quite a few places in CM are not used to having foreign visitors. They're friendly, they just look at you as if they were seeing a UFO. Helps to pute some pasa tai. I think it's worth the effort to try out CM at least once. I just think it's a bit tragic that so many people visit Thailand for years and years, yet all they've seen is Route 3.

[BonTong]

Think I'll be back to CM to check it out in the future... I know at least one nightclub where gays hang out and would love to know of any other bars and such (not commercial sex ones) in Chiang Mai.
Mandalay Bar, known locally as Mandagay is very popular with the more camp Thai queens - is that where you mean?

There aren't many real 100% gay Thai bars as gay is now so mainstream. You can find gay guys in bars all over town, but many don't speak much English. Examples include Infinity, Warm Up, sometimes Monkey Club and many smaller Thai bars in the Nimaanheminda and Santitham areas of town. Gay karaokes are also OK for meeting other gays, although commercial bars in one sense, you can also go home with the customers!

Chiang Mai is best to visit in cool season - November to February. Fabulous weather then and plenty to do both in and outside the city. Also consider taking trips out of town to places like Chiang Rai, Phayao or Fang plenty to do and see.

[Beachlover]

Thanks, BonTong!


Mandalay Bar, known locally as Mandagay is very popular with the more camp Thai queens - is that where you mean?

There aren't many real 100% gay Thai bars as gay is now so mainstream. You can find gay guys in bars all over town, but many don't speak much English. Examples include Infinity, Warm Up, sometimes Monkey Club and many smaller Thai bars in the Nimaanheminda and Santitham areas of town. Gay karaokes are also OK for meeting other gays, although commercial bars in one sense, you can also go home with the customers!
Yeah... Mandalay is the one I've heard of and read about. I've heard it's only busy on Saturday nights so will have to make sure I'm there on a Sat. Is that true?

Thanks for the other names. Can you tell us a little more about each of them, what crowd they tend to attract and what days/times they tend to get going?

I'm looking for bars or nightclubs/discos with a young crowd where it'll be easy to meet and chat up local gay guys. I speak almost no Thai (Phu Thai mai dai / Phu Thai nit noi?). Most important is knowing what day's and what times they get busy.

Your website's great. Lots of info on gay Chiang Mai... found good info on this page: http://www.radchada.com/chiang-mai-gay- ... e-bar.html (http://www.radchada.com/chiang-mai-gay-disco-karaoke-bar.html)


Chiang Mai is best to visit in cool season - November to February. Fabulous weather then and plenty to do both in and outside the city. Also consider taking trips out of town to places like Chiang Rai, Phayao or Fang plenty to do and see.
I agree... I last visited during December and had to wear a sweater! I did all the stuff outside Chiang Mai, trekking, river rafting and it was awesome. Everyone should get out and see that part of Thailand. Really beautiful countryside.

[BonTong]

Yeah... Mandalay is the one I've heard of and read about. I've heard it's only busy on Saturday nights so will have to make sure I'm there on a Sat. Is that true? Mandagay is busiest Thursday thru Saturday, Thursday is apparently the gayest night. Doesn't get busy until after midnight or later.


Thanks for the other names. Can you tell us a little more about each of them, what crowd they tend to attract and what days/times they tend to get going?

I'm looking for bars or nightclubs/discos with a young crowd where it'll be easy to meet and chat up local gay guys. I speak almost no Thai (Phu Thai mai dai / Phu Thai nit noi?). Most important is knowing what day's and what times they get busy. All the other places are straight but with a mixed young crowd, very hard to say what nights you'd find more gays, though weekends are always the busiest. Most of these get busy earlier (maybe 11 p.m.) and finish earlier. To be brutally honest, if you go to these places alone and don't speak Thai your chances of meeting people will be slim. These are predominantly Thai places where groups of friends stand around tables drinking whiskey. Alone you're are likely to be ignored; best to make some Thai friends first and get them to take you, though be prepared to foot the bill for whiskey, mixers and ice for everyone at your table. Under this scenario you may be surprised how many new friends will appear and just how much fun you have.


Your website's great. Lots of info on gay Chiang Mai... found good info on this page: http://www.radchada.com/chiang-mai-gay- ... e-bar.html (http://www.radchada.com/chiang-mai-gay-disco-karaoke-bar.html)

Thanks for the compliment. We try hard to keep the site up to date and reader feedback is always appreciated.

[Beachlover]

Mandagay is busiest Thursday thru Saturday, Thursday is apparently the gayest night. Doesn't get busy until after midnight or later.
Sweet... thanks, that's really useful to know.


All the other places are straight but with a mixed young crowd, very hard to say what nights you'd find more gays, though weekends are always the busiest. Most of these get busy earlier (maybe 11 p.m.) and finish earlier. To be brutally honest, if you go to these places alone and don't speak Thai your chances of meeting people will be slim. These are predominantly Thai places where groups of friends stand around tables drinking whiskey. Alone you're are likely to be ignored; best to make some Thai friends first and get them to take you, though be prepared to foot the bill for whiskey, mixers and ice for everyone at your table. Under this scenario you may be surprised how many new friends will appear and just how much fun you have.
Thanks... I'm Asian and in my twenties so don't tend to be treated like farang but I also don't speak Thai, which can be a pain. :crybaby:

CM will probably just be a 2-3 night thing for me so Mandalay might be enough.

[Brisboy82]

I'd go to chiang Mai as there's so much to do whereas pattaya has prostitution and nothing whatsoever else.

I'd go to chiang Mai as there's so much to do whereas pattaya has prostitution and nothing whatsoever else.
Wow Brisboy what a load of c r a p! Chaing Mai has no prostitutes (?) no massage parlours (?) no gay bars where the boys hang out?
Are you like blind? Sure Chaing Mai is a beautiful place with many things to do but so is Pattaya with Nanooch Gardens, the elephant farm, zoo, and is a hop skip to the Tiger Zoo and all sorts of things.

[Brisboy82]

I'd go to chiang Mai as there's so much to do whereas pattaya has prostitution and nothing whatsoever else.
Wow Brisboy what a load of c r a p! Chaing Mai has no prostitutes (?) no massage parlours (?) no gay bars where the boys hang out?
Are you like blind? Sure Chaing Mai is a beautiful place with many things to do but so is Pattaya with Nanooch Gardens, the elephant farm, zoo, and is a hop skip to the Tiger Zoo and all sorts of things.

I'm aware of the extent of prostitution in change Mai. However the town itself is a genuine Thai
City with other things to do also.

Pattaya exists theoretically as a beach town hover there is no real beach to speak of. That also includes jomtien which also doesn't have a real beach just dirt and murky water. So apart from that pattaya doesnt have any other real reason for existence.

I'm aware of the extent of prostitution in change Mai. However the town itself is a genuine Thai City with other things to do also.
Pattaya exists theoretically as a beach town hover there is no real beach to speak of. That also includes jomtien which also doesn't have a real beach just dirt and murky water. So apart from that pattaya doesnt have any other real reason for existence.
Oh come on Brisboy! First you say it is nothing but prostitution and now you say all the beaches are murkry water and no real beach.
Tell that to all the people on the beach and in the water sailing, swimming, jet skiing, parasailing, snorkelling, scuba diving, visiting the beautiful nanooch Gardens and all the other things they can do here.
While Chaing Mai is a beautiful city and certainly more picturesque with the Kings palace and scenery, it has a lot more land and is certainly more spread out.
Pattaya, like Chaing Mai have a lot to do and I think you might want to sit down and review your current Thai Puan and Out magazine and count all the bars, discos, massage parlours, and places that money boys can be found in Chaing Mai before you go and make a comment that Pattaya is a town full of only prostitutes. Nuff said.

[Brisboy82]

I'm aware of the extent of prostitution in change Mai. However the town itself is a genuine Thai City with other things to do also.
Pattaya exists theoretically as a beach town hover there is no real beach to speak of. That also includes jomtien which also doesn't have a real beach just dirt and murky water. So apart from that pattaya doesnt have any other real reason for existence.
Oh come on Brisboy! First you say it is nothing but prostitution and now you say all the beaches are murkry water and no real beach.
Tell that to all the people on the beach and in the water sailing, swimming, jet skiing, parasailing, snorkelling, scuba diving, visiting the beautiful nanooch Gardens and all the other things they can do here.
While Chaing Mai is a beautiful city and certainly more picturesque with the Kings palace and scenery, it has a lot more land and is certainly more spread out.
Pattaya, like Chaing Mai have a lot to do and I think you might want to sit down and review your current Thai Puan and Out magazine and count all the bars, discos, massage parlours, and places that money boys can be found in Chaing Mai before you go and make a comment that Pattaya is a town full of only prostitutes. Nuff said.

Jetskis or not. That is not a beach. Change Mai may have a lot of boy bars etc but there is also a large population of just normal people who are not prostitutes. There's plenty of young guys in change Mai who are not moneyboys whereas I can't say the same for pattaya.

I don't think anybody could possibly call what pattaya has a beach. Chiang Mai is also a place of historical and cultural significance whereas pattaya has no Thai culture to speak of.

[Manforallseasons]

Oh come on Brisboy! First you say it is nothing but prostitution and now you say all the beaches are murkry water and no real beach.(justme)

Yes Bisboy's statement was O.T.T. but no more so than this statement:

I'm Asian and in my twenties so don't tend to be treated like farang but I also don't speak Thai(quote)Beachlover

Brisboy if you want to say that Chaing Mai has a lot more cultural things to do and you feel it is more beautiful for things to see etc, that would be fine, but there is a lot of money boys up there and a lot of go go bars with prostitutes. I have been there several times.

The comment that you made that is unfair is that there are no beaches and nothing but prositutuin in Pattaya.
NOT TRUE! Just leave it at why you like Chaing Mai better. Hell between the two, I like Chaing Mai better also but there are plenty more things in Pattaya than just prostitutes! Sure there are MORE prostitutes in Pattaya because it is a very sexual city but not exclusive by any means.

[BonTong]

Jetskis or not. That is not a beach. Change Mai may have a lot of boy bars etc but there is also a large population of just normal people who are not prostitutes. There's plenty of young guys in change Mai who are not moneyboys whereas I can't say the same for pattaya.
It never ceases to amaze me how many Thai guys in Chiang Mai who are not moneyboys or prostitutes will accept cash in return for sex :8(


Brisboy if you want to say that Chaing Mai has a lot more cultural things to do and you feel it is more beautiful for things to see etc, that would be fine, but there is a lot of money boys up there and a lot of go go bars with prostitutes. I have been there several times.
Actually, to keep things in perspective there are only four Go-Go bars in Chiang Mai, probably more accurately described as host bars with shows. A major difference from Pattaya is the prostitutes in them are almost exclusively straight Burmese refugees from the Shan state. Most are doing it to for survival rather than to make so much money. You won't find many Issan Fem boys in the commercial scene here, though there are plenty of Northern Katoey types in places like Mandagay. CM has an oversupply of massage parlours and massage guys too.

Whilst there are plenty of boys here, there are probably even more temples :) and we do have a beach at Huay Ting Tao lake just north of the city.

[colmx]

Hi Bon Tong
On your website you warn that Mandalay/Mandagay is not farang friendly...


Enormous Thai Style disco, mixed but very popular with groups of young Thai Gays (AKA Mandagay). Foreigners not welcome here

And then on Nickys Gay CM guide it goes as far as saying that it is At your own risk:

This place is inside the Eastern Moat. It is an enormous Thai Style disco, mixed but very popular with groups of young Thai Gays (hence the nick name Mandagay). HOWEVER FOREIGNERS ARE NOT WELCOME HERE тАУ GO AYOR and do take a Thai with you.

This seems to be at odds with the rest of this thread...

Can you please advise or comment?
Or if anyone else has any experiences i would be grateful to hear them

Thanks in Advance!

[BonTong]

Hi Bon Tong
On your website you warn that Mandalay/Mandagay is not farang friendly...

[quote]Enormous Thai Style disco, mixed but very popular with groups of young Thai Gays (AKA Mandagay). Foreigners not welcome here

And then on Nickys Gay CM guide it goes as far as saying that it is At your own risk:

This place is inside the Eastern Moat. It is an enormous Thai Style disco, mixed but very popular with groups of young Thai Gays (hence the nick name Mandagay). HOWEVER FOREIGNERS ARE NOT WELCOME HERE тАУ GO AYOR and do take a Thai with you.

This seems to be at odds with the rest of this thread...

Can you please advise or comment?
Or if anyone else has any experiences i would be grateful to hear them

Thanks in Advance![/quote:3kxfttbf]
Mandagay is not Farang friendly for several reasons. The owners are apparently of the opinion certain types of Farang are trouble and try to discourage them. Firstly, the young backpacker crowd, who turn up drunk, drink one bottle of beer and behave badly, or at least in a way unacceptable in this type of place. Secondly, the old, straight sex tourist who buys one beer and pesters the young girls, most of whom aren't in the business. As a result, Mandalay imposes a 300Bt cover charge for foreigners to say you are not welcome.

The format of Mandalay is very Thai, and not so appealing to older farangs. Very loud Thai stage show, with groups of Thais standing or dancing around tables drinking whiskey from bottle/mixer sets. It doesn't get going until after midnight so is only for night owls. Not such a hospitable place to go on your own to try to meet people.

However, if you like this type of place and go with a group of Thai friends, speak some Thai and drink whiskey Thai style you can have a great time. You also stand more chance of meeting new people when you are in a group, than standing in a corner alone. The crowd is maybe 60% gay at weekends, and many of the real queeny boys go there, though be aware they are often only interested in other Thais. Also, be aware that if you are an older Farang and someone approaches you, chances are they are a money boy i.e. AYOR. The place also gets raided by the Police from time to time, including on the spot urine tests for drugs.

In summary, Mandalay can be a good place to go but you need to understand it for what it is and apply the necessary caveats. Unless you are young and/or Asian, you are likely to be disappointed.

[Narakmak]

If you've got respiratory health issues like asthma, forget Chiang Mai unless you're willing to move away for a few months every smoky season.
Also, it gets both hotter and colder than Pattaya during the year.
If you don't already have respiratory health issues, you are quite likely to develop them living in CM if you stay during the bad months. They have among the highest rate of lung disease related mortality in the world.
That's why I chose Pattaya over CM even though in most ways I much prefer CM.
Also good about Pattaya -- the ocean breezes.

I used to go to CM every year as part of one of my visits but gave up about 6 years ago as I found it boring. Pattaya for me every time.

The rest of this solar system is boring compared to Pattaya! Plenty of + and - to each place..they're just different. Things get going in CM late..like after 11pm. Quite a few places in CM are not used to having foreign visitors. They're friendly, they just look at you as if they were seeing a UFO. Helps to pute some pasa tai. I think it's worth the effort to try out CM at least once. I just think it's a bit tragic that so many people visit Thailand for years and years, yet all they've seen is Route 3.

Are you kidding or do you spend all of your day at the beach and/or all or your night in the bar? Pattaya is a city barren of any sort of cultural or arts scene, even the higher-up's recognize that it's time to change this place, so to say it's the most exciting place on Earth is hilarious.

[christianpfc]

I was in Mandaly with a Thai friend (see my Chiang Mai trip report), and there was no bad vibe from other customers.

It's unlikely that I will go back because 300 Baht is quite expensive, the place is mixed (so I don't know who is gay) and not cruising friendly (Thai style - groups of friends around a table). As the disco is quite large and there are many people (at least when I was there), I doubt that up to 60% are gay, I would assume far less are gay.

But from what you (colmx) write about discos in Pattaya, I think you might like it.

... Pattaya is a city barren of any sort of cultural or arts scene......

Nobody (in their right mind) comes to Pattaya expecting culture and art - except you apparently :dontknow:

If you want culture and an arts scene go to Europe.

Seems simple to me.

:occasion9:

[Brad the Impala]

Pattaya was founded fifty years as an R and R destination to which prostitutes from all over Thailand were drawn, Chiang Mai was founded seven hundred years ago as the capital of a kingdom, and is one of the most historic cities in Thailand. Both have developed on those lines since then.


You pays your money and you takes your choice.



[quote="lonely_farang":1i4t664q]... Pattaya is a city barren of any sort of cultural or arts scene......

Nobody (in their right mind) comes to Pattaya expecting culture and art - except you apparently [/quote:1i4t664q]

He didn't say he was expecting it, merely noting that it doesn't exist, which is a point worth making in discussing the relative qualities of the two destinations, as the same could not be said about Chiang Mai.

[colmx]

Mandagay is not Farang friendly for several reasons. The owners are apparently of the opinion certain types of Farang are trouble and try to discourage them. Firstly, the young backpacker crowd, who turn up drunk, drink one bottle of beer and behave badly, or at least in a way unacceptable in this type of place. Secondly, the old, straight sex tourist who buys one beer and pesters the young girls, most of whom aren't in the business. As a result, Mandalay imposes a 300Bt cover charge for foreigners to say you are not welcome.

The format of Mandalay is very Thai, and not so appealing to older farangs. Very loud Thai stage show, with groups of Thais standing or dancing around tables drinking whiskey from bottle/mixer sets. It doesn't get going until after midnight so is only for night owls. Not such a hospitable place to go on your own to try to meet people.

In summary, Mandalay can be a good place to go but you need to understand it for what it is and apply the necessary caveats. Unless you are young and/or Asian, you are likely to be disappointed.

Hi BonTong

Thanks for the clarification!

As a couple that frequents the likes of Hollywood, X-zyte and the late night Gay pubs of Pattaya... it sounds like Mandagay is right up our alley!

I was a bit aprehensive as "AYOR" (in nickys report) usually means (in my dictionary) that a place is downright dangerous!

Also i am quite used to paying a farang premium, x=zyte, Dave, NAB and Hollywood all foist this on the unsuspecting farang that arrives to their premises... Its only when they get ued to teh look of you that they stop trying to charge!

Thanks again for clearing things up!

Bontong is correct as usual! "Mandagay is not Farang friendly..." "---not so appealing to older farangs." "Very loud." & 300 baht discriminatory cover charge.

I went to Mandalay once & stayed for just five minutes. I went with a group of five gay Thais in their mid-20's who love the place and go frequently, but there are so many more fun options in Chiang Mai for a middle-aged gay foreigner. I still like loud music often & discos some times, but I'm just not attracted to the nelly queens who dominate the crowd at Mandalay. If you're attracted to guys who need to go look in the bathroom mirror every ten minutes, powder their noses, or whatever they do, then Mandalay might be just the place for you, but why pay 300 baht if 99% of the customers don't have to pay? :hello2:

[BonTong]

If you've got respiratory health issues like asthma, forget Chiang Mai unless you're willing to move away for a few months every smoky season.
Also, it gets both hotter and colder than Pattaya during the year.
If you don't already have respiratory health issues, you are quite likely to develop them living in CM if you stay during the bad months. They have among the highest rate of lung disease related mortality in the world.
That's why I chose Pattaya over CM even though in most ways I much prefer CM.
Also good about Pattaya -- the ocean breezes.
Whilst it's true, some years Chiang Mai does have a smoggy period for a few weeks at the start of the hot season, your post greatly over exaggerates the problem. 2007 was the last time I remember it being really bad, and the last two years there was almost no problem at all. Indeed, this year went direct from cool season to rainy season without ever having a hot season. Contrast with last year (2010) when nearly every day in April was over forty degrees, and this year when the first day of Songkran was raining at nineteen degrees and zero pollution.

For me, the intense heat for a few weeks in March-May has been worse than the smoke. Many who live here go travel at this period, the weather back in Europe or US is not so cold by then and it makes a nice time to get away, especially from Songkran which some class as a greater evil than smoke or heat :8(

Of course, there is a difference between living here and visiting. Tourists can choose the best time to visit Chiang Mai which is NOW and simply avoid March and April! November through February, Blue skies, sunshine, clear air, warm days, light breeze and cool nights with no rain. Fabulous!

[BonTong]

Hi BonTong

Thanks for the clarification!
Thanks - you are welcome!


As a couple that frequents the likes of Hollywood, X-zyte and the late night Gay pubs of Pattaya... it sounds like Mandagay is right up our alley!

I was a bit aprehensive as "AYOR" (in nickys report) usually means (in my dictionary) that a place is downright dangerous!

Also i am quite used to paying a farang premium, x=zyte, Dave, NAB and Hollywood all foist this on the unsuspecting farang that arrives to their premises... Its only when they get ued to teh look of you that they stop trying to charge!

Mandalay started as a Chiang Mai answer to Holywood. If you like Holywood, Mandalay will indeed be right up your alley, especially if you don't get hot and bothered about the cover charge. Mandalay was never intended as a gay venue, just seems the gays and Katoeys took over! Thursday and Friday are probably the biggest gay nights now.

It's certainly not downright dangerous, though you do have to be a bit careful who you go home with. It owes some of it's bad press to the cover charge which, being blatantly discriminatory, always gets a negative reaction from some parties when mentioned, as it has in this thread. As you observe for other places, once they get to know you and know that you spend money and tip, the cover charge disappears.

For me the main negative of Mandalay is I have too many friends who go there and take my presence as an open invite for them, their friends, and their friends friends to drink on my tab!

[Narakmak]

If you've got respiratory health issues like asthma, forget Chiang Mai unless you're willing to move away for a few months every smoky season.
Also, it gets both hotter and colder than Pattaya during the year.
If you don't already have respiratory health issues, you are quite likely to develop them living in CM if you stay during the bad months. They have among the highest rate of lung disease related mortality in the world.
That's why I chose Pattaya over CM even though in most ways I much prefer CM.
Also good about Pattaya -- the ocean breezes.
Whilst it's true, some years Chiang Mai does have a smoggy period for a few weeks at the start of the hot season, your post greatly over exaggerates the problem. 2007 was the last time I remember it being really bad, and the last two years there was almost no problem at all. Indeed, this year went direct from cool season to rainy season without ever having a hot season. Contrast with last year (2010) when nearly every day in April was over forty degrees, and this year when the first day of Songkran was raining at nineteen degrees and zero pollution.

For me, the intense heat for a few weeks in March-May has been worse than the smoke. Many who live here go travel at this period, the weather back in Europe or US is not so cold by then and it makes a nice time to get away, especially from Songkran which some class as a greater evil than smoke or heat :8(

Of course, there is a difference between living here and visiting. Tourists can choose the best time to visit Chiang Mai which is NOW and simply avoid March and April! November through February, Blue skies, sunshine, clear air, warm days, light breeze and cool nights with no rain. Fabulous!
I reckon I smell a rather obvious commercially related bias. I stand by my warning about the health hazard of living in CM vs. Pattaya which doesn't have perfect air, but at least get clearing ocean breezes and no serious burning issues:


Medical specialist issues pollution warning

Over 50% in Chiang Mai suffer from respiratory disease

Dr. Chaichan Photirat, a specialist in allergy and respiratory diseases based at Chiang Mai Hospital, announced recently that data from a lung health check program carried out amongst residents in Chiang Mai in 2002 showed that 30% of the population was suffering from respiratory disease. In 2005 numbers had risen to 42%, in the following years to 50%, and are still rising He attributes the increase to the growth of the city, the resultant increase in vehicle use, the increase in industrial plants and overcrowding, as well as to continuing illegal burning.
Chaichan stated that, as in all large cities, further growth and expansion inevitably results in a deterioration of air quality, which causes damage to the environment and an increase in pollution and the number of recorded sufferers from respiratory disease. He emphasised that burning of refuse, plastics, agricultural debris and forest areas should cease, and that residents should seek immediate medical help for any kind of respiratory problem.
The World Health OrganisationтАЩs levels of not more than 50 micrograms of dust per cubic metre of air are significantly lower than those, (120 mcg per cubic metre), set in Chiang Mai. For the vast majority of days in March and April, levels in the city were above the WHOтАЩs recommended maximum. Medical experts in the field feel strongly that Chiang MaiтАЩs levels are set too high, and should be significantly reduced.
http://www.chiangmai-mail.com/272/news.shtml

I think going for a weeks visit and living there make the difference when it comes to medical problems

[BonTong]

I reckon I smell a rather obvious commercially related bias. I stand by my warning about the health hazard of living in CM vs. Pattaya which doesn't have perfect air, but at least get clearing ocean breezes and no serious burning issues:Some years there is a problem with smoke that lasts only a few weeks, that is not disputed. If you do have respiratory problems, it's not so hard to get out of town for that period, and, as I said previously, many do, not just because of the smog but also because of the intense heat at that time. It's certainly not an issue for tourists as they can easily avoid that period; there are far better times to visit Chiang Mai.

Phrases "like the health hazard of living in CM" are, in my opinion, unnecessary scare mongering. Although maybe not ill-intentioned the effects can be similar to the recent pictures of flooded Don Muang airport making many think it was not possible to travel here. If the problem was really as bad as you suggest why has Chiang Mai become such an extremely popular retirement destination by a broad range of people?


http://www.chiangmai-mail.com/272/news.shtml
AhhHa, that stalwart of journalistic excellence the Chiang Mai Mail! Great headline: Over 50% in Chiang Mai suffer from respiratory disease completely unsupported by the facts even in their own article. 50% of whom? Ten people they interviewed 8 years ago? twenty people, thirty people? It doesn't even say which hospital and the article is more than three years old! Pollution levels have been significantly better the last two years.

That doesn't mean there isn't a problem, for several weeks in some years pollution has been over WHO recommended levels, this is true. This has also been accompanied by an increase in the number of people hospitalised with lung problems. But the same is true in many other parts of South East Asia too. The main victims are the local population who aren't able to leave when it gets too bad.

[BonTong]

AhhHa, that stalwart of journalistic excellence the Chiang Mai Mail! BTW, before Shana kills me :violent1: , it's got much better under the current editor, though is now only available online! This article was from 2008 when things weren't so good :8(

[gerefan2]

Also i am quite used to paying a farang premium, x=zyte, Dave, NAB and Hollywood all foist this on the unsuspecting farang that arrives to their premises... Its only when they get ued to teh look of you that they stop trying to charge!
Colmx, can you please explain that?
I do not recall an entry charge at Dave or NAB, or are you saying they charge more for drinks?
Thanks

[colmx]

I do not recall an entry charge at Dave or NAB, or are you saying they charge more for drinks?
Thanks
Hi Gerefan
if you turn up at either venue unaccompanied and don't indicate that you either intend to open a bottle of whiskey - or have friends inside (with whiskey)that you were joining - they usually try to put on a cover charge

Actually its more like a 1 or 2 drink minimum @200B for the drink... its usually to stop cheap ass farang going in for a gawk or a grope and paying nothing
(or in the case of russians - just to keep them out full stop!)

Back in April I had a casual acquaintance wait an hour in the Dave lobby for me to arrive so he could avoid the 200 cover charge...
When we arrived, he told the waiters he was my friend and joined our table... then proceeded to molest every boy at our tabel and the surrounding tables...

2 hours later... when it came to the bill he handed in 60B for his contribution to the 2000B+ bill - How generous of him!

So I fully understand the farang cover charge any place!

[colmx]

How generous of him!

By the way...
This is the same farang that gives a gayromeo boy 20B when they ask him for money after the "deed" has been done
10B for baht bus to his room and 10B home!

[Dboy]

Are you kidding or do you spend all of your day at the beach and/or all or your night in the bar? Pattaya is a city barren of any sort of cultural or arts scene, even the higher-up's recognize that it's time to change this place, so to say it's the most exciting place on Earth is hilarious.

I find plenty to do in Pattaya (as well as CM), so boredom has never really been an issue. Maybe YOU are boring, and are therefore a "lonely_farang"? Both places are great (as are many towns in between those two)...all really depends on what you want. That's all. It's silly and pointless to say one place is better than the other. And really, Pattaya DOES have a cultural area...there's quite a bit of performance art going on in Sunee. You don't go to Pattaya for the wine festivals, and you don't go to Chiang Mai to watch a ping pong pussy show (although they might have one). Each place has its own unique attributes.

[stevehadders]

As they say its "horses for courses" - each place has their attributes. I love Chiang Mai - to say it is more culturally rich than Pattaya, in my opinion, cannot be disputed, with Doi Suthep, Chiang Dao (apologies unsure spelling) as well as a wealth of mountain temples that are relatively undiscovered. Pattaya for me is something else, its my fun time, and equally as enjoyable but in a completely different way. If I was to live,in Thailand , or retire there, I really am unsure which place I would choose - probably Pattaya with some nice breaks in Chiang Mai I guess.

[pong]

having spent 2 weeks-with YiPeng/LoyKratong in it-in CM, fleeing the BKK-floods and having visited this town as a kind of ''has to be in it'' when I travelled more extensively throughout Thaild in the 90ies, I was mostly pleasantly surprised about this city. But then re wheather this is the best time of year.
What rather disappointed me was the gayness of the place-I remembered it as much more in the past. Maybe my older age has to do with it, but then the obvious places like the freelancers on TaPae have gone, the former fun nightmarket bars have about gone-well not completely, but in sleaze alley with a bunch of unfit chao doi, the former fun bars have mostly gone or replaced. The remark of a CM inhabitant that it is now so mainstream really wonders me- is not this the city where the reds reign supreme and have at times attemtped to forbid a gay parade or whatever-as ''this is not the CM custom!''. But there is a very good selection of quality massage places for m2m. And the level of english and general service is excellent compared to BKK or even PTY. Transportation though is much, much worse. But then lo and behold-even CM on LOyKroh now has these darkskinned Isany ladies beckoning you for massath and hello dahling-pack that whole crap up and smash it over the Burmese border.
And in response to discussion above-as you all may have noted I do not have too much simpathy for ''gay'' bisnisses and am not related to any commerce, I just write what my impressions were-and always like topoint out the other side of those overpositive ''it cannot be wrong at all'' stories.

[Dboy]

What rather disappointed me was the gayness of the place-I remembered it as much more in the past. Maybe my older age has to do with it

No, I don't think it's age, I think you're right about that. I used to stay at Souvenir Guest House...at the old location, and through that was able to find plenty of evening activities to do. No idea why they moved to their new location as they did; the new place feels so isolated compared to before; and at least for me that changed things, since after that I haven't really found a place to stay where I really felt comfortable. They had a small upstairs bar where one could sit around and chat, and it felt like it was a "happening" place...for awhile. But they're gone, And I suppose that now with all the changes in the night market area, it's probably all straight there now...it was sure headed that way the last time I was there. But on the cultural front, CM is really, really good.

Dboy

Are you kidding or do you spend all of your day at the beach and/or all or your night in the bar? Pattaya is a city barren of any sort of cultural or arts scene, even the higher-up's recognize that it's time to change this place, so to say it's the most exciting place on Earth is hilarious.

I find plenty to do in Pattaya (as well as CM), so boredom has never really been an issue. Maybe YOU are boring, and are therefore a "lonely_farang"? Both places are great (as are many towns in between those two)...all really depends on what you want. That's all. It's silly and pointless to say one place is better than the other. And really, Pattaya DOES have a cultural area...there's quite a bit of performance art going on in Sunee. You don't go to Pattaya for the wine festivals, and you don't go to Chiang Mai to watch a ping pong pussy show (although they might have one). Each place has its own unique attributes.

LOL your posting lost all credibility when you mentioned culture and Sunee in the same sentence. I guess you failed to read the part of my posting that mentioned about spending "all of your night in the bar". As for GR ID's, does yours mean Dumb BOY?

Much as I like CM for its inexpensive relaxed social atmosphere, the pollution in the real atmosphere is an issue (for me, anyway)

As for Pattaya, I'm actually planning to go there next month, the first time for many moons..

Will have a lady in tow (Thai) who has a lesbian side to her that she's been too shy to explore (although she likes going 'two lady', and watching me shag other girls) - I'm hoping we can pick up a pro-active bi-girl who'll take the initiative..

..she always does her own thing during the day, so I'll have plenty of time to indulge the other side of MY sexuality... :-)

[aot871]

I have just returned from CM after a 1 weeks stay , enjoyed it during the day as much more to do than pattaya , but the trouble at night , is the boys in the bars are about 80 to 90% straight, and not interested in doing much when you get them back to your hotel room

...the trouble at night , is the boys in the bars are about 80 to 90% straight....

Luxury!

...boys are straight and not interested in doing much when you get them back to your hotel room

Just tuck your legs behind your ears and go with the flow

[Beachlover]

I'd go to chiang Mai as there's so much to do whereas pattaya has prostitution and nothing whatsoever else.
Wow Brisboy what a load of c r a p! Chaing Mai has no prostitutes (?) no massage parlours (?) no gay bars where the boys hang out?
Are you like blind? Sure Chaing Mai is a beautiful place with many things to do but so is Pattaya with Nanooch Gardens, the elephant farm, zoo, and is a hop skip to the Tiger Zoo and all sorts of things.
I think it's fair to say Pattaya is dominated by prostitution but that's not all it has. Pattaya has other things too.

Chiang Mai has its fair share of prostitutes as does Bangkok but Brisboy82 is correct in saying this...


there is also a large population of just normal people who are not prostitutes. There's plenty of young guys in change Mai who are not moneyboys whereas I can't say the same for pattaya.
I think the difference is cities like Chiang Mai and Bangkok are normal, functioning cities with a prostitution scene available if you choose to participate. Where as in Pattaya it's kind of hard to avoid the prostitution whether you choose to participate or not. I'm not the first person to say this.

Resurrecting an old(er) thread here...

I am planning on taking the train from Bangkok to Chiang Mai within the next week or two - Want to do the day version vs. the overnight version, since I love train travel and staring out a window is one of the highlights for me (also I do not sleep well on trains or planes!)

But rather than doing it all at once, I would like to stop off in one place each way. Thinking of LOPBURI and PHITSANULOK as likely stopover sites....

Can anyone recommend a hotel in either or both? Been doing some research on my own, but find little other than simply place names with no feedback.

Really appreciate it, guys!

[Nabaat]

Phitsanulok: Topland, not the cheapest, but you are on top of the centre of Phits n Sucks (tha'ts what we call it). Know someone who has lived there for 8 years, not a bad place....little scene if you know where the Ary boys are, or the Uni Campus :party

[martin911]

I have been to the "playground " nite club there and to one late nite gay place -- not sure on the exact name -- does Picasso sound familar ??

[Khor tose]

I have been to the "playground " nite club there and to one late nite gay place -- not sure on the exact name -- does Picasso sound familar ??

No, it doesn't. Maybe Barocco?

[pong]

Resurrecting an old(er) thread here...
1.I am planning on taking the train from Bangkok to Chiang Mai within the next week or two - Want to do the day version vs. the overnight version, since I love train travel and staring out a window is one of the highlights for me (also I do not sleep well on trains or planes!)
2.But rather than doing it all at once, I would like to stop off in one place each way. Thinking of LOPBURI and PHITSANULOK as likely stopover sites....
3.Can anyone recommend a hotel in either or both!
@1. There is just 1 daytrain BKK-Cmai-the sprinter-more like a bus on rails. As soon as there is 1 ray of sun-like in any bus too-the Thai close all the curtains and go-asleep, plus that windows are opaque or even worse. Trains are mostly hours late on arrival.
@2. Phi-loke-and see Sukhothai nearby (buses Suk-CMai take 5 hrs, run hourly and are thus much easier and faster as back to PHiloke and train). Lopb is much smaller and has loads of free-moving monkies, ready to snatch everything you oversee.
@3.NO- all these towns have dozens of Thai-style HTLs, but QUOTE what type of HTL you want, price./budget and if any particlar reqrmnts (''gay friendly'' is utter nonsense here in TH). Or that age-old thing might still work: guidebook. Most of the low-budget places are not on the www, do not take REServations-just turn up and look-always plenty of space. Most tourists nowadays seem to scary to even think of that.

[newalaan]

Thinking of LOPBURI and PHITSANULOK as likely stopover sites....Can anyone recommend a hotel in either or both? Been doing some research on my own, but find little other than simply place names with no feedback. Don't know if you like to turn up pre-booked or like us are happy just to arrive at a town/city then have a look around then you get there and check-in without reservation as Pong also suggests. Visited Phitsanulok couple years ago for a concert and as part of a trip to Sukothai and finally to Chiang Mai in our pickup truck.

Don't know if you will have time for exploring nightlife in Phitsanulok but our concert was at Mai Mon Pub, the usual kind of thai-for-thai country/folk-rock venue. Although it was for a famous but older Thai band it was mostly a young audience. Usual groups of thais, but quite a few obviously gay groups there. The concert was to finish 1am sharp, so the crowd got going early, started at 9am by 10.30-11 when the band came on the crowd were in very high spirits. Great night.

We just looked for a hotel when we arrived when looking for the venue. Behind the venue which was on a long stretch road running parellel to the railway line, there was a smaller road running parallel as the rail, and we just found a typical thai hotel there. Bt650 for the room, as with most of the thai hotels was probably 20-30 years old and the glory days well behind it, kept the pretence of looking 'up to date' by having dooman, bell boy etc.. If it's just a 'head down for the night' coupled with a night out, the hotel and pub would be ideal as they are close to eachother. Can't say exactly how far they are from the railway station but i guess you'll be taking local transport anyway, just ask for Mai Mon Pub, and when you have located that, ask him to take you to the nearest hotel (sorry can't remember name of it) just over the railway line . Travelling alone or with a Thai friend? If with a Thai friend let him book you both into the hotel, much easier.

[martin911]

I have been to the "playground " nite club there and to one late nite gay place -- not sure on the exact name -- does Picasso sound familar ??

No, it doesn't. Maybe Barocco?

nope not familar to me ?? but it was at the end of the nite when we finally found it --BUT i doo remember that the coyotes in the club were "smoking" each othe(on stage )r as if they were not going to make any more Thai cocks !!

yes its the little details that count !!

[kjun12]

Say what you want Justme. He is really correct in that Pattaya is the modern day Sodom. There are, however, other things to do there.

No, not at all. I would say that there are a few areas in Pattaya that are very sexual and that prostitutes are prevalent. There are red light areas just like Amsterdam but I would say that what you are trying to do is to take the conversations rather than the areas and call them sodom. There are a lot of prostitutes, I will give you that and a lot more than in other cities but there is a huge area that is family orientated, vacationers, beaches that are not sexually orientated, parks and things to do. To throw the whole city out with the bath water is something that some of you would like to do, but it is wrong.

Sure, if you go into these red light or sex areas it seems like the city is over run and maybe it is to a certain extent, but then you are not focusing on everything else there is to do. As far as the nightlife, I know many people who live here year round with their boyfriends and girlfriends who go out to dinner and somewhere else and have a drink who never avail themselves to these areas.

[BonTong]

For the most part, in Chiang Mai, dens of prostitution are tucked away down small sois out of sight. Mostly in Chang Puek area as historically Santitham was (and still is in a few areas) the Thai brothel area.

The only exceptions are a handful of girlie bars at the moat end of Loi Kroh Road. Once a year, the city re-states the plan to crackdown and move these to Chiang Mai Land where they can't be seen by "nice family tourists". After a week of raids and early closures, sufficient tea money is collected and the status quo returns.

Apart from that the city is good clean living and 100% prostitute free :8(

... the city is good clean living and 100% prostitute free...(

After visiting Chiang Mai and having the tits bored off me 8-10 years ago, I had little inclination to return.

After the above statement by Bon Tong, I now have no inclination to return, just in case it is true!

:party