High Season Vs Floods, Recession, Crisis in Europe and USA

[SlaveDriver]

Just got off the phone with few of the guys from Pattaya and Udon Thani. They work around the gay tourist industry. Here what they had to say:

"Since you left last month I have had not a single customer take me". "The Bar has got too many new guys ....... and few customers so both the new and old hosts are disappointed".

"I came back to Udon Thani because there is nothing in Pattaya now".

"I am moving to BKK this time, because this high season it will be better there ...... more bars, clubs and pubs ...... so farang go there"

In the past few days the media and TV's in the West are talking about the floods in Thailand. This is putting off the travelers.

The European crsis and the sluggish US economy recovery has made most of the people hold tight to their spending. Christmas is coming and consumer spending is dropping.

Western currencies have lost steam against the Thai Bhat. So it is not an attractive thing.

Costs have gone up and the Bars are charging more and more and cheating on the customers.

Owners have gone and brought guys from upcountry when the market share is dwindling. Guys are not happy.

What's going to happen this high season and brilliant idea to rescue the Pattaya Gay Economic? :crybaby:

[ikarus]

Floods are indeed unusually bad (I would not recall anything like that) but keep in mind they will be gone by the end of October (i.e. the beginning of high season). As a purely anecdotal evidence, I am trying to make a reservation (in a somewhat upscale) hotel in Pattaya for the end of December-beginning of January and it is fully booked. Also, December-January is usually crazy time in Pattaya with a lot of people, horrific traffic etc. Thus, to have somewhat smaller number of tourists would be a plus. I suspect that the bars would be fully-staffed and, overall, those who will be able to make it in Pattaya during the high season will have even more enjoyable time than usual.

[lonelywombat]

It is not only december and january that is filling up, my friend that had wanted to go from mid november to end of first week december, has called for help.

He is finding it hard to get condo, serviced apartment rather than hotels. This turn around cannot be as a result of anything posted on this forum as apart from the doom and gloom posts like the OP, this board is just recovering from its shit fights that have been going on since this time last year.

Friends who are looking for a side trip next year have discovered Purpleroofs gay travel and have been checking out a number of places close to Thailand.

http://www.purpleroofs.com

They were surprised at the info on Pattaya in particular, which was submitted by John owner of twoguys. Could have been more about the gay nightlife but maybe it was censored out. But it is getting the message out to people that may have never been to Thailand or thought of coming. This is just one of dozens of large gay travel agencies in the world that could do with an update.

http://www.purpleroofs.com/newsletters2 ... iland.html (http://www.purpleroofs.com/newsletters2009/091006-pattaya-thailand.html)

If Pattaya is to survive, it will be from the efforts of those who get off their arses and go looking for business.

So far all I have seen from this Slavedriver is doom doom doom! As he keeps touting, let's all get together and come up with this new name, that idea etc etc etc.

Sure there are some people who are stuck in the past but there is no freaking doom. Although business has been down as opposed to years long past, so has the economy for now. The stock markets are down, the businesses are down but they will turn around. Maybe not tomorrow, but they will.

I will say that this is our second "off season" and this one was considerably better than last year! It is not doom, doom , doom and you still have not answered my question of which business you currently own or which one you are palnning on buying because you are dishing out a lot of..... we need to do this and that and a lot of advice.
Last time I asked you that question, you just ignored me. Will that be the case this time also? :dontknow:
I for one and tired of all your gloom posts.

So far all I have seen from this Slavedriver is doom doom doom!

"justme" either "SlaveDriver" speaks fluent Thai and the boys that he knows are very schooled to write or speak so elegantly, and savvy to the goings on with the economies of the Western world or he is making the whole thing up. I would go for the latter, and with a handle like "SlaveDriver", well say no more....

I think there are 2 separate issues here which are undergoing 2 quite separate changes - Pattaya tourism generally and Pattaya Gay tourism.

I can well believe that some hotels etc will be fully booked for certain times during High Season.
However, I think you have to look at who is filling the rooms!
From my observations over the past few years, hotels are filling up with coach parties of Asians from various countries.
Hotels which one never saw with coaches in the car park are now filling up from this market.

"Gay" tourism in Pattaya (specifically BT and Sunee venues) seems to me to be, on a rapid and ever-increasing decline. The High Season of 2011 will compare with the Low Season of say 2005.

As for the future of BT - well there was always a gay tourist market which appreciated constancy and resisted change - these were the people who returned once, twice, three times a year because they knew what they were getting and they knew everything would be more or less the same as last time.
In a 1960's UK setting these would be the "Butlins every year" brigade.
Unfortunately for BT these people have largely died off or stopped coming for various economic reasons (2000 77B/┬г, 2011 46B/┬г) - yet BT is still catering for them by providing venues and show formats which are basically the same as in the 1980's whilst at the same time the long established BT venues seem determined to price themselves out of any sort of realistic market (I have already mentioned the 2800B/┬г60/$90 bottle of JWBL at Copa )

Further, we must not underestimate the horrific "press" that Pattaya in particular gets in the West.
Many gay people do not want to be seen to be visiting an area which the world's media constantly say is a mecca for you-know-what. Some gays will lie and say they are going to Singapore maybe, but many others just wont come at all.
I can honestly say that I have noticed eyebrows being raised when I mention Thailand/Pattaya.

So, my contention is that whilst the Hotels may well be full, they are not full of the people who will patronise BT and Sunee!
Therefore BT and Sunee are relying more on ex-pats, who are also largely cutting back on expenditure.

I do not wish to join in the doom and gloom - but I fear that nothing that BT and Sunee can do will attract any significant increase in Gay tourism. All the younger gay people in Europe are going to places like Gran Canaria and Ibiza - they are not interesed (or needful of) paid sex so they go where the "fun" is. These places are cheaper and much easier to access than Thailand. I cannot speak to where Americans may be going instead of Thailand - but I know I see fewer and fewer Americans in the gay areas than ever before.
Meantime, in BT and Sunee, a major overhaul of what they provide may tempt some expats to come out a bit more but that is not going to turn the ship around.
I fear Gay tourism in Pattaya is in terminal decline and although a concerted effort (is that even possible with the disparate personalities involved) may slow the pace of change, the trend is clear.

:occasion9:

[jinks]

I fear Gay tourism in Pattaya is in terminal decline and although a concerted effort (is that even possible with the disparate personalities involved) may slow the pace of change, the trend is clear.

I tend to agree, I now only visit friends in BT and Sunee. Also these friends are in decline too.

Many bars no longer appeal to me. I no longer "need" sex, I can be very selective and sometimes slow in making a decision.

I centre my holidays now in Jomtien at the Venue.
The Jomtien area has an excellent choice of bars and restaurants.
Walking passed the same bar and boys for several days hightens their expectation when you finally walk in.

I fear Gay tourism in Pattaya is in terminal decline and although a concerted effort (is that even possible with the disparate personalities involved) may slow the pace of change, the trend is clear.


I tend to agree, I now only visit friends in BT and Sunee. Also these friends are in decline too.
Many bars no longer appeal to me. I no longer "need" sex, I can be very selective and sometimes slow in making a decision.



Anyone that have been coming to Pattaya over the last 10 years knows that Pattaya as a whole is nothing compared to what it was, and I agree it has little chance of survival.

[neoncrusade]

You make lots of interesting points Scotty.

However, I wonder if things are really so bad. Ex Pat augurs have been predicting the end of gay civilisation as we know it in Thailand for years now, and yet there are STILL dozens and dozens more gay bars (I'm only talking Pattaya here as I know nothing of Bangkok) than there were when I first set foot in Pattaya in the very early 90's. Is there really less gay business or does it just look like it due to the excess of bars, that business has become spread a lot more thinly?

The first time I went to the Crazy Pub in the 90's, Sunee was DARK. Other than the Crazy Pub, there was maybe one other gay bar in Sunee at the time. Now look what's there! Jomtein was pretty much empty of gay bars....now look! BT is pretty much the same.

I don't think that Thailand has ever been a gay mecca for younger guys, and I'm not sure it ever will be.

I agree that younger gays may well go to places like Gran Canaria etc to have fun. However, these guys get older and reach the point where they can no longer attract the young guys they may still hanker after, and they too will start to find countries like Thailand attractive, where for a small fee, a handsome young guy can be theirs for a while (make the most of being 26 Beachy! There may come a time when you are happy to discuss the cost of guys you pay off from bars, because the ones you pay for are the only ones you get!).

[jinks]

I agree that younger gays may well go to places like Gran Canaria etc to have fun. However, these guys get older and reach the point where they can no longer attract the young guys they may still hanker after, and they too will start to find countries like Thailand attractive, where for a small fee, a handsome young guy can be theirs for a while

Exactly my position, in my 40's I was still able to "pull" in Gran Canaria, lots of really nice events, boys too!
Just for a change 19 years ago I tried Pattaya. I have visited Thailand at least once a year since.
I went bach to GC several times but not in the last 13 years.

[aot871]

I agree with scottish -guy and jinks , i also think its the very bad exchange rates , guys on fixed incomes and bad investment income, like most of us .As some else said just look at the price in copa , no wonder there hardly any one in. Like jinks i now prefer jomtiem but i noe stay at a condo instead of a hotel , it saves money

[Beachlover]

I agree that younger gays may well go to places like Gran Canaria etc to have fun. However, these guys get older and reach the point where they can no longer attract the young guys they may still hanker after, and they too will start to find countries like Thailand attractive, where for a small fee, a handsome young guy can be theirs for a while...
Keep in mind, that's only going to be true for some gays. Others remain attracted to guys their own age and have little or no desire to go after younger guys to buy sex. I'm finding myself attracted to guys as old as late-30s now, which is totally different to how I felt a few years back.

Will I want to go after younger guys when I'm in my 40s or 50s? Can't answer that now. But I know as I get older, stability and being in a deep loving relationship is what I'll value... not bouncing from one relationship to another and seeking one nighters.

Lots of gay guys maintain a loving relationship with a long-time partner as they get older too (though, looking around, I admit this can be challenging and not all succeed). I reckon, only a small percentage of gay guys end up making regular trips to prostitution hot spots as they get older... but no stats to back that.

[ikarus]

Keep in mind, that's only going to be true for some gays. Others remain attracted to guys their own age and have little or no desire to go after younger guys to buy sex. I'm finding myself attracted to guys as old as late-30s now, which is totally different to how I felt a few years back.

Will I want to go after younger guys when I'm in my 40s or 50s? Can't answer that now. But I know as I get older, stability and being in a deep loving relationship is what I'll value... not bouncing from one relationship to another and seeking one nighters.

Lots of gay guys maintain a loving relationship with a long-time partner as they get older too (though, looking around, I admit this can be challenging and not all succeed). I reckon, only a small percentage of gay guys end up making regular trips to prostitution hot spots as they get older... but no stats to back that.
What do you know? Your pathetic posts are so ridiculuos and idiotic that I will not even comment on the nonsense you post on the subject.
For those who are saying that Pattaya is in decline, you, guys, are dead wrong.
For me, I have better sex in Pattaya every year and, as you can imagine, I am not getting younger or more attractive. My own theory is that Thai guys are getting less inhibited,more open and honest about it . So, the key thing is where to pick them up and if you go to the bars, a lot depends on the boss. Thai work ethic to significant extent is based on boss attitude. If the boss, does not give a flying fuck about customers, express his/her negative attitude towards them, so will the go go boys. This factor determines my choice of the bars with a key factor-boss attitude.
Unlike what this idiot Beachlover rumbling here about pay sex and prostitutes, go go bars in Thailand traditionally played a role (among others) of a meeting point of young Thai men with older farang.
The thing is not every young man (naturally) will consider to go with older farang and under normal circumstances go go bars would attract only those young men who will do. Of course, with various farang idiots who are running some of those bars this natural function has been suppressed. Thus, the key point is the right choice of places where older farang can meet a willing young Thai man with a good chance of positive experience...

[Beachlover]

I will not even comment on the nonsense you post on the subject.
Ah... you just did. Posted a rather long comment on it. :rolling:


For me, I have better sex in Pattaya every year
Firstly, that's because you pay for it. Secondly, not that I'm supporting those who say Pattaya is declining, but your "better sex every year" experience isn't a valid indicator of whether Pattaya or the commercial sex trade is growing or declining.


The thing is not every young man (naturally) will consider to go with older farang..
Yes, I agree.

So... now that you've called me an idiot without any justification, are you going to retract calling me an anti-semite? Because that was pretty wrong and uncalled for serious accusation and you haven't justified that either.

[christianpfc]

All the younger gay people in Europe are going to places like Gran Canaria and Ibiza - they are not interesed (or needful of) paid sex so they go where the "fun" is. These places are cheaper and much easier to access than Thailand.
Not all of them (unless 31 is not "younger"), I won't go to Gran Canaria or Ibiza: I don't like Caucasians (for sex) and I prefer to spend time on other places than beaches. I have no problem paying for sex in Thailand (even though I might get it for free with a very little bit of effort). I don't know if Gran Canaria and Ibiza are cheaper, definitely easier to access from Europe, but there are no Thai boys! I will keep coming to Thailand twice per year. I came first in 2009, since then there were no significant changes.

With all due respect Christianpfc, you are hardly what might be called "typical".

Of anybody - or anything in fact.


:laughing3:

....
For those who are saying that Pattaya is in decline, you, guys, are dead wrong.
For me, I have better sex in Pattaya every year ....

Good, Good.

But what about those who don't spend their entire time with their legs tucked behind their ears, getting fucked?

Have you anything to say about the Pattaya gay "scene" other than you have no difficulty finding cock for sale?

:dontknow: :dontknow:

[Liamog]

Have you anything to say about the Pattaya gay "scene" other than you have no difficulty finding cock for sale?

Always been sufficient for me, didn't realise there was more to it than that?

[Beachlover]

....For those who are saying that Pattaya is in decline, you, guys, are dead wrong. For me, I have better sex in Pattaya every year ....
Good, Good.

But what about those who don't spend their entire time with their legs tucked behind their ears, getting fucked?

Have you anything to say about the Pattaya gay "scene" other than you have no difficulty finding cock for sale?
I like your response better than my own. :rolling: