Living in Chiang Rai-any information?

[thaiguest]

Has anybody experienced living in Chiang Rai for an extended period? Having visited there for short weekend visits I found the people very friendly and helpful (with a few homophobic exceptions) and the city convenient for exploring the beautiful hinterland and visiting Burma and Laos and the different 'hill tribe' villages.
However I suspect that longterm living could either be very relaxed or plain boring. Is there self-catering accomodation there at a reasonable price, I wonder. I would like to give it a try as an alternative to hectic BKK or Pattaya for say 6 months.

The homophobia I encountered involved taxi drivers at the airport. (Two instances). Here's one;

When you approach the taxi desk there the next available taxi must take you. On my last trip the driver made it very plain to his colleaques that he didn't want to take me to my destination- a well know gay hotel. He refused to take my bags to the car at the airport and dumped them on the footpath outside the hotel when we arrived there. On the way his english was good enough to make it clear that gays were not his favourite people. When I paid him I held up a 100 baht note and told him that this was the tip that he was not now going to get. I also slammed the door of the car so hard that he jumped 2 feet off the ground. He got into the car meekly without a word proving to myself once again that this is the only way to deal with his type.

Despite this i would like to give the city a try as the majority of people are far more curteous that the Thais around Pattaya. There's an 'old world' charm about them not often found today.

I welcome your comments.

[dab69]

Quote:

"When I paid him I held up a 100 baht note and told him that this was the tip that he was not now going to get. I also slammed the door of the car so hard that he jumped 2 feet off the ground. He got into the car meekly without a word proving to myself once again that this is the only way to deal with his type."


awesome.
+1

Quote:

"When I paid him I held up a 100 baht note and told him that this was the tip that he was not now going to get. I also slammed the door of the car so hard that he jumped 2 feet off the ground. He got into the car meekly without a word proving to myself once again that this is the only way to deal with his type."


awesome.
+1

Hi,

A dangerous way to deal with such a problem in my book.Pouring oil on the fire doesn't extinguish it.

People have been killed for small and silly things like this, especially in these areas where they are a long way from Bangkok and have their own rules and regulations and WAYS of dealing with things.

Bigotry is changed and altered by education and explanation not slamming car doors.

I don't like what he did regards his manners towards you but I think I would just have refused his car and got another.

You've only to look at the guy murdered in Chiang Mai not so long ago for telling a kid he was lazy and should wash up after himself. It only takes small things with uneducated people and for them to perceive that they ' have lost face ' and they have a fury always bubbling just under the surface. I don't like it, I don't agree with it, but that is how they are.

Regards Chiang Rai, I have been there and up in and around the Golden Triangle and although it looks lazy and peaceful, it can be quite lawless bordering two other Countries as you point out. These areas have bandits and various factions of the Shan etc slipping in and out of Thailand all the time and usually for no good reason.

[Beachlover]

Which well-known gay hotel in Chiang Rai was this? Curious.

I've never been to Chiang Rai but will comment on the homophobia.

For some reason, I'm noticing that Thai guys I meet from in and around Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai are more likely to be in the closet with their family. Granted, we're only talking about a small sample of guys I've questioned here. But I wonder if this reflects that there's a greater level of ignorance in this area.

One guy explained to me people in his parent's village are very "traditional" and barely know the meaning of "gay".

Is this part of Thailand more gay-ignorant/homophobic than average compared to the rest of Thailand?

[llz]

I cannot think of another gay hotel than the North Hotel behind the old bus station (and close to the new location of Lobo Bar if I read well). Is there another one in Chiang Rai ?

[Dboy]

Is this part of Thailand more gay-ignorant/homophobic than average compared to the rest of Thailand?

People you're meeting in CM/CR are probably from that area and are therefore likely to be more careful about their activities than those who live in Pattaya/Bangkok. Most people in Pattaya are from somewhere else. The whole country is conservative, you just don't notice that aspect of the culture if you're spending your time in Pattaya/Bangkok. There's also the generational factor to consider, same as everywhere else in the world. Many more younger people are "out" vs previous generations.

The rule in the West is something along the lines of: "you can talk about anything you want, as long as you don't do it". While in Asia it seems to be: "you can do anything you want as long as you don't talk about it".

There also seems to be another rule: "You can have sex with 50 women, 100 women 500 women...whatever. But if you then go suck one cock, you're gay" :-) People are funny.

Dboy

[thaiguest]

Quote:

"When I paid him I held up a 100 baht note and told him that this was the tip that he was not now going to get. I also slammed the door of the car so hard that he jumped 2 feet off the ground. He got into the car meekly without a word proving to myself once again that this is the only way to deal with his type."


awesome.
+1

Hi,

A dangerous way to deal with such a problem in my book.Pouring oil on the fire doesn't extinguish it.

People have been killed for small and silly things like this, especially in these areas where they are a long way from Bangkok and have their own rules and regulations and WAYS of dealing with things.

Bigotry is changed and altered by education and explanation not slamming car doors.

I don't like what he did regards his manners towards you but I think I would just have refused his car and got another.

You've only to look at the guy murdered in Chiang Mai not so long ago for telling a kid he was lazy and should wash up after himself. It only takes small things with uneducated people and for them to perceive that they ' have lost face ' and they have a fury always bubbling just under the surface. I don't like it, I don't agree with it, but that is how they are.

Regards Chiang Rai, I have been there and up in and around the Golden Triangle and although it looks lazy and peaceful, it can be quite lawless bordering two other Countries as you point out. These areas have bandits and various factions of the Shan etc slipping in and out of Thailand all the time and usually for no good reason.

Yes, on reflection you're right about the risk factor; it's after all their country and we're paying guests but in situations like that my brain goes awl and I can't help myself.

I think the homophobia comes from a combination of traditional conservatism and a strong christian influence in the region.

I shouldn't have mentioned the incident at all because in fairness it was but a small blot on what has been a very enjoyable series of experiences there.

Most people in the city are very friendly- they will ask you on the street where you come from and welcome you to Thailand. If you try to speak Thai in the shops (local) fellow customers will compliment you for effort no matter how bad your Thai is.

But Hey! nobody has given me an insight into long-term living there.

[thaiguest]

I cannot think of another gay hotel than the North Hotel behind the old bus station (and close to the new location of Lobo Bar if I read well). Is there another one in Chiang Rai ?
Yes it was the North Hotel.

[Beachlover]

Cool, found the Chiang Rai hotel... http://www.thenorth.co.th and http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review ... vince.html (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g297920-d1102268-Reviews-The_North_Hotel-Chiang_Rai_Chiang_Rai_Province.html)


People you're meeting in CM/CR are probably from that area and are therefore likely to be more careful about their activities than those who live in Pattaya/Bangkok. Most people in Pattaya are from somewhere else. The whole country is conservative, you just don't notice that aspect of the culture if you're spending your time in Pattaya/Bangkok. There's also the generational factor to consider, same as everywhere else in the world. Many more younger people are "out" vs previous generations.
I agree with what you say. People may be more inclined to keep their sexuality private in their home town.

But just for the sake of accuracy, I wasn't talking about people I met in CM/CR. I was talking about Thais I meet in Bangkok, Sydney and other places who SAY they're from CM/CR. I've just noticed they're more likely to be in the closet to their family when they're from that area. That's all.

I've found, Thais from Bangkok are most likely to be open with their family. From Isaan, it's middle of the road and from CM/CR it's the opposite.

But this is just from a small sample of Thais, I've socialised with and happened to ask this question in conversation... might not reflect trends in the rest of the population.

[pong]

dear TG, as i was travelling for some 2 weeks i was not able to respond earlier.
1. OF course there is accomm in CR-plenty, as there is in ANY medum Thai sized town. If really wanted also with a firepalce to cook on-but do not expect too much of ''western-style'' kitchens and all that. Many a thai can completely survive on eating out 3 meals/day-and so can you. it works out even cheaper too.
2. Have not lived there myself either, but I think you sum it pretty much adequately up in your entree: it is plain boring after the initial while and also do not forget you tend to visit when it is all at the brightest- just think of late rainy season and possible flooding or scorching heat with dusty winds for weeks at no end. You'll have to endure all that too. And : the smaller the place, the more it becomes a trap when a realtion turns sour or so-mostly inevitable after a time. But you do not stay there for ever-hire/lease (that stupid idea of having to buy a house is also very un-Thai) and be free to move on when you please.
3. after many a year in the ''tourist industry'' and still having to read endless boards etc with the tipical tourist questions, I despise that longing for ''the real Thai life''. They simply parrot one another without the least idea of what is that all about. There MUST be a daft simple reason why farang stick to one anohter often-like in CMai (the most obvious nearby alternative)- more likeforlike company and the requested western-style little luxuries of life.
4.And yes, people from the north are known all over Thaild to be super-friendly. Also to be a bit on the treacherous side (these 2 often come together). When you decide to settle down there, make some more efort to learn the local dialect= Kham Muang (it is a lot easier to learn as proper thai too!
5.''close'ness to what it seems on a map says nothing-the only thing that matters is how transportation is and if borders are even open.

[chillnorth]

In total, I've spent about two months of the last six in and out of CR, enough time to know I would go out of my mind with boredom there-- and I'm not one to crave constant excitement. Yes, the surrounding area is quite beautiful, but how often is one going to tour?

CR makes Chiang Mai feel enormous, which is one of the reasons the hill tribe lads, lasses, and grandmothers with anything to sell head south to CM, BKK, or other parts rather than stay put. It's much easier to keep up the image that you're working in a restaurant if you're not in your back yard. In such a small place it doesn't take long for everyone to know everyone and thus everyone's business (even if you don't think they do).

North Hotel is about as close to a gay hotel as CR has, I suppose, but it's hardly a party site. Good for a few drinks, snacks, and the recorded music collection, thus worth stopping by. Any time I've been in the place there have never been more than a few people and I've not felt in any more or less a gay atmosphere than most other places. None of the hotels in the old city area are going to care about joiners unless you need to buy another breakfast ticket.

Interesting comment about north people being super-friendly and also often treacherous. Sounds abrupt to the Western ears but my Thai partner has said the same thing. He has also commented unkindly that if someone is trying to make it in Chiang Rai he/she has probably made it everywhere else and is out of options.

It might be more conservative traditionally. The educated Thai individuals I've known there certainly have been. They've also been polite but clear in the feeling that Chiang Rai doesn't exactly draw top quality farang as residents. The hills are definitely crawling with missionaries, but I doubt they've made any serious dents in the old ways. Some of the good-doing foundations must be doing good [sic] at teaching spoken English, because their graduates seem to have a better grasp of the language when closing deals at the night spots in CM and elsewhere. The irony of helping a guest remove a "stop the sex trade" T-shirt or the ubiquitous wristband is hard to ignore, as is the picture of one's friend of the hour flipping his cross necklace around to his back to keep it from interfering as he takes aim.

Curious tale about the "homophobic" taxi driver(s) and very unusual for a Thai to say such things to a customer no matter his actual feelings. I find taxi and tuk tuk service there generally more expensive and less "have a good day" than in larger cities.

Door slamming may have been satisfying in the moment, but such turdish behavior surely did nothing to improve his opinion of gay tourists. The next time you wave a 100 baht note at someone in anger you might want to write the name of your next of kin on another 100 baht note and stick it with your insurance card in your shoe. I would be thinking twice about settling in a community where I've already humiliated a local who probably knows everyone and will surely have a long memory.

Great kaow moo dang for lunch at the Thai-Chinese restaurant in the center of town not far from the TG office. Ask anyone and they'll know it.

[thaiguest]

In total, I've spent about two months of the last six in and out of CR, enough time to know I would go out of my mind with boredom there-- and I'm not one to crave constant excitement. Yes, the surrounding area is quite beautiful, but how often is one going to tour?

CR makes Chiang Mai feel enormous, which is one of the reasons the hill tribe lads, lasses, and grandmothers with anything to sell head south to CM, BKK, or other parts rather than stay put. It's much easier to keep up the image that you're working in a restaurant if you're not in your back yard. In such a small place it doesn't take long for everyone to know everyone and thus everyone's business (even if you don't think they do).

North Hotel is about as close to a gay hotel as CR has, I suppose, but it's hardly a party site. Good for a few drinks, snacks, and the recorded music collection, thus worth stopping by. Any time I've been in the place there have never been more than a few people and I've not felt in any more or less a gay atmosphere than most other places. None of the hotels in the old city area are going to care about joiners unless you need to buy another breakfast ticket.

Interesting comment about north people being super-friendly and also often treacherous. Sounds abrupt to the Western ears but my Thai partner has said the same thing. He has also commented unkindly that if someone is trying to make it in Chiang Rai he/she has probably made it everywhere else and is out of options.

It might be more conservative traditionally. The educated Thai individuals I've known there certainly have been. They've also been polite but clear in the feeling that Chiang Rai doesn't exactly draw top quality farang as residents. The hills are definitely crawling with missionaries, but I doubt they've made any serious dents in the old ways. Some of the good-doing foundations must be doing good [sic] at teaching spoken English, because their graduates seem to have a better grasp of the language when closing deals at the night spots in CM and elsewhere. The irony of helping a guest remove a "stop the sex trade" T-shirt or the ubiquitous wristband is hard to ignore, as is the picture of one's friend of the hour flipping his cross necklace around to his back to keep it from interfering as he takes aim.

Curious tale about the "homophobic" taxi driver(s) and very unusual for a Thai to say such things to a customer no matter his actual feelings. I find taxi and tuk tuk service there generally more expensive and less "have a good day" than in larger cities.

Door slamming may have been satisfying in the moment, but such turdish behavior surely did nothing to improve his opinion of gay tourists. The next time you wave a 100 baht note at someone in anger you might want to write the name of your next of kin on another 100 baht note and stick it with your insurance card in your shoe. I would be thinking twice about settling in a community where I've already humiliated a local who probably knows everyone and will surely have a long memory.

Great kaow moo dang for lunch at the Thai-Chinese restaurant in the center of town not far from the TG office. Ask anyone and they'll know it.

Thank you for your insight on CM.
Your reference to the 'curious tale' about the homophobic taxi driver has a certain aloof tone of dismissal. Yet it happened to me as described-an (unsolicited) abusive encounter with someone who was contracted by me to carry out a service at my expense and I reacted in a way that at least sent this yellow bellied lout scurring into his car.
I don't need someone like you to tell me what's usual/unusual for a thai to say; I know all that already.
I agree with Mr. Quill's remarks re. my personal satety in such circumstances but you know what? - a big problem with many gays is their mincing kow towing to bullies. Not for me Mr. Chillnorth, sorry.

[chillnorth]

"I don't need someone like you to tell me what's usual/unusual for a thai to say; I know all that already. "
Glad to know it, No need to bother with you again, then.

Where ever you go you are going to find many people that are nice and kind and many people that are unaccepting trash holes.
When I went to Phuket, I felt as uncomfortable as I would have been to go flirting arounf Colorado waving a gay flag and vowed never to return!

it seems to me that no matter what a thia does to a farang it seems we just hae to smile and say thanks, or risk being killed .. isnt this a pretty small minded way of lumping all thais as being murderers

it seems to me that no matter what a thia does to a farang it seems we just hae to smile and say thanks, or risk being killed .. isnt this a pretty small minded way of lumping all thais as being murderers


Hi brithai,

Nah, I don't agree.

I am one of the biggest on this forum for pointing out the many errors and wrongful posts backing up Thais in the wrong using the excuses of, ' If you don't like it, go home ' , ' It's their Country ' etc etc I HATE with a vengeance these pathetic justifications when the Thai is clearly in the wrong, such as the Phuket Mafia tuk tuks or the Jet ski scams and so on.

I even voiced in a recent post about many posters ignoring the kid's vile behaviour in Sunnee threatening to falsely accuse the Foreigner of being a Paedophile ( if in fact it happened! ) but I don't advocate confrontation with a taxi driver in an area like Chiang Rai, who is obviously an ill educated bigot. He probably knows many locals and if it came to confrontation, you can guarantee only his ' side ' of the argument would be heard or listened to.

I am simply saying the better way of dealing with a guy like that is playing them at their own game, and with a smile, ordering another cab.

That way you have avoided a bad cab driver, avoided confrontation, and the arsehole has lost a fare and you've hit him where it hurts a Thai, in the pocket!

In many ways and outside of the big city urban areas, Thailand still has a long way to go with educating its population. They are usually fed a daily diet of, They are lucky to be born here, It's the best nation on Earth, and any problems they face are caused by Foreigners!!

good reply
i tend to hit all thai cabbies in the pocket same as i do when home in london i simply hate to take a cab anywhere give me a bus anyday! yes i am a cheap charlie where that sort of thing is involved.

good reply
i tend to hit all thai cabbies in the pocket same as i do when home in london i simply hate to take a cab anywhere give me a bus anyday! yes i am a cheap charlie where that sort of thing is involved.


Hi,

Prices of City cabs in the provinces and black cabs in London, I don't blame you at all. I am the same and if going any distance like the airport, I tend to use Asian private hire firms!

[Beachlover]

When I went to Phuket, I felt as uncomfortable as I would have been to go flirting arounf Colorado waving a gay flag and vowed never to return!
I can relate to that... Phuket and the people there kind of feels different from the rest of Thailand. Not quite as welcoming and I feel more conscious about being openly gay there.


I don't advocate confrontation with a taxi driver in an area like Chiang Rai, who is obviously an ill educated bigot. He probably knows many locals and if it came to confrontation, you can guarantee only his ' side ' of the argument would be heard or listened to.
Yes, there's a happy medium between sticking to your principles and not being impractical/stupid.

It was probably a snap decision for the OP. Not much thought and no big deal.

[thaiguest]

it seems to me that no matter what a thia does to a farang it seems we just hae to smile and say thanks, or risk being killed .. isnt this a pretty small minded way of lumping all thais as being murderers


Hi brithai,

Nah, I don't agree.

I am one of the biggest on this forum for pointing out the many errors and wrongful posts backing up Thais in the wrong using the excuses of, ' If you don't like it, go home ' , ' It's their Country ' etc etc I HATE with a vengeance these pathetic justifications when the Thai is clearly in the wrong, such as the Phuket Mafia tuk tuks or the Jet ski scams and so on.

I even voiced in a recent post about many posters ignoring the kid's vile behaviour in Sunnee threatening to falsely accuse the Foreigner of being a Paedophile ( if in fact it happened! ) but I don't advocate confrontation with a taxi driver in an area like Chiang Rai, who is obviously an ill educated bigot. He probably knows many locals and if it came to confrontation, you can guarantee only his ' side ' of the argument would be heard or listened to.

I am simply saying the better way of dealing with a guy like that is playing them at their own game, and with a smile, ordering another cab.

That way you have avoided a bad cab driver, avoided confrontation, and the arsehole has lost a fare and you've hit him where it hurts a Thai, in the pocket!

In many ways and outside of the big city urban areas, Thailand still has a long way to go with educating its population. They are usually fed a daily diet of, They are lucky to be born here, It's the best nation on Earth, and any problems they face are caused by Foreigners!!

There are a few points made here that don't square up in my view.

You condemn Phuket Mafia tuk tuks but advise tactical toleration of a Chiang Rai abuser because he's 'an ill-educated bigot' and has local connections. What's the material difference between these two types? Nothing more than one being an uneducated bigot with local connections and the other an uneducated gangster with local connections.

You advise hitting them in the pocket. I agree. That's what I did via the confiscated tip. (This is what really annoyed him).

Regarding your recommendation to avoid confrontation and order another cab; had I done that at the airport I would have immediately brought about confrontation in front of his fellow cabbies-as I explained in my original post the system at Chiang Rai airport requires the customer to take the next available cab.

Pehaps HE should have refused the fare given his local connections etc. and thus the whole affair would never have come about.

But it's not a big deal for me; I'll be back again but next time- fore warned and therefore fore armed.

Hi,

Never mind.

I re read my post and I thouight it was clear enough. I don't agree with either the Phuket taxis nor the Chiang Rai cab driver.

I was pointing out that some posters defend them when they are clearly in the wrong purely on the notion that it is ' their Country ' like a one size fits all policy allowing this as a justification to behave how they wish no matter how out of order they are.

I would certainly advise tactical tolerance with both the Chiang Rai cab driver and the Phuket gangsters in the tuk tuks.

But the old saying applies ' Up to You! '

[Beachlover]

Nah, I don't agree....
You condemn Phuket Mafia tuk tuks but advise tactical toleration of a Chiang Rai abuser because he's 'an ill-educated bigot' and has local connections. What's the material difference between these two types?
What's your point. Kquill says both are wrong. He says it's safer and more practical not to confront the Chiang Rai driver. I don't want to put words in his mouth but I doubt Kquill would recommend confronting a Phuket tuk tuk driver in this aggressive manner either.