Political amnesties

[thonglor55]

There was an interesting report on BBC World over the weekend, questioning why no Thai soldier has yet been arrested for the killing of innocent civilians such as nurses during the Red Shirt protests last year. There was one almost throwaway line at the end about "current discussions". The reporter asserted that a deal is being discussed - amnesty for the army's shooting of civilians in exchange for an amnesty for Thaksin. Nothing would surprise me (except someone actually being prosecuted and convicted).

There was an interesting report on BBC World over the weekend, questioning why no Thai soldier has yet been arrested for the killing of innocent civilians such as nurses during the Red Shirt protests last year. There was one almost throwaway line at the end about "current discussions". The reporter asserted that a deal is being discussed - amnesty for the army's shooting of civilians in exchange for an amnesty for Thaksin. Nothing would surprise me (except someone actually being prosecuted and convicted).


Absolutely,

Not going to happen,. The Army and Police are still stood in the background very near to the current prime minister and letting her know what she can and can't do. There will be no arrests whatsoever of Army personnel ' doing their duty ' is how it will be described and the innocent red shirt protestors that ended up dead branded as ' insurgents ' or Anti Monarchy protestors, ( that usually works to shut everyone up!)

I am doubtful they will allow Thaksin back as they have already branded him as Anti monarchist trying to introduce a republic and too many at the top have to much to lose if he returns. Jail time for him?? That won't happen either. You've as much chance as seeing free and fair elections in the Country!

How many Police were arrested during Thaksins drug war when there were hundreds if not thousands of innocent people murdered by Police in the extra judicial killings?? ........none.

Thaksin's actual downfall started when he, after already installing his pals into all the senior positions of the Police Force, attempted to alter and change the pecking order of the Army, and they were not going to have that one.

[thonglor55]

Not going to happen.Never ever?

[Dodger]

Thongor55 wrote:


There was one almost throwaway line at the end about "current discussions". The reporter asserted that a deal is being discussed - amnesty for the army's shooting of civilians in exchange for an amnesty for Thaksin

The only problem with that deal is that amnesty isn't needed for those who have not been convicted of commiting a crime. The soldiers in question were never convicted of anything...nor should they have been, although Thaksin was, and rightly so.

I was surprised that more people weren't killed or injured during the red shirt riots (peaceful demonstrations my ass). The administration at that time showed incredible restraint, even after Thaksin recruited armed militants (terrorists) to begin shooting people and starting fires which claimed the lives of many.

Any manuveur by the current goverment (red shirts) to give Thaksin amnesty would result in another military-led coup - which unfortunatley may be in the cards.

[thonglor55]

Any manuveur by the current goverment (red shirts) to give Thaksin amnesty would result in another military-led coup which is most likely in the cards.This penetrating analysis results from your close viewing of the program, where chapter and verse about the killing of nurses was given?

[Dodger]

Thonglor55 wrote:


This penetrating analysis results from your close viewing of the program, where chapter and verse about the killing of nurses was given?

No, my penetrating analysis resulted from my close viewing of the terrorist tactics supported by Thaksin & Co. which was the root cause of all the killing which ocurred. The "effects" of the problem were the people who were injured or lost their lives during Thaksin's brutal attempt to over-throw the government. The "root cause" was none other than Thaksin and the ignorant farmers who were blind enough to follow him.

[thonglor55]

No, my penetrating analysis resulted from my close viewing ...Yes, the fools, all those bar boys in Bangkok and Pattaya are pretty much Thaksin followers too. It makes you think, doesn't it - they're discerning enough to choose gentlemen of quality such as you and me, Dodger, for some fund-raising sodomy yet foolish enough to be fucked over by a knave like Thaksin. Still, it's refreshing to find someone so confident in his own ignorance (sorry, "close viewing") that he can ignore investigative journalism. Life is such a rich tapestry don't you find?

[Dodger]

Thonglor wrote:


Still, it's refreshing to find someone so confident in his own ignorance (sorry, "close viewing") that he can ignore investigative journalism. Life is such a rich tapestry don't you find?

If one considers sitting back in a beach chair flipping through a tabloid as "investigative journalism" then you could receive the Pulizer Prize.

Interesting, that In another post regarding the topic of "Amnesty" you stated:


In my opinion all criminals should be shot once convicted. It would save a lot of money.

and then when qusestioned about the fact that innocent people could get killed in the process, you went on to say...


"shit happens"

But now - through your implied investigative journalism you have determined that is was wrong for innocent people to get killed during the red shirt riots. Well, wouldn't a gentelman with your mindset just consider this as..."shit happens".

Yes, life is a rich tapastry indeed and we would like to thank you for your contribution.

[cdnmatt]

When it comes to things like this in Thailand, I've learned that there's simply no point in even having an opinion, because it does nothing but add unneeded mental stress. The red shirts are no better than the yellow shirts, and vice versa. And that goes for any other color or shirt, and basically Thai society as a whole.

Living in Thailand is like living in a simmering pot, which is always almost at the boiling point. Doesn't matter what group, faction, shirt color, socioeconomic level, education level, or anything else you're at. It's all the same. One big simmering pot, one action can bring it to boiling point, then people end up doing absolutely irrational shit that makes no sense whatsoever.

Welcome to Thailand. :)

[Dodger]

cdmatt wrote:


When it comes to things like this in Thailand, I've learned that there's simply no point in even having an opinion, because it does nothing but add unneeded mental stress. The red shirts are no better than the yellow shirts, and vice versa. And that goes for any other color or shirt, and basically Thai society as a whole.

Living in Thailand is like living in a simmering pot, which is always almost at the boiling point. Doesn't matter what group, faction, shirt color, socioeconomic level, education level, or anything else you're at. It's all the same. One big simmering pot, one action can bring it to boiling point, then people end up doing absolutely irrational shit that makes no sense whatsoever.

Welcome to Thailand. :)

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

[cdnmatt]

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

But I didn't share my opinion on the subject matter. I shared my opinion on having an opinion. There's a difference. :P

LOL

[thonglor55]

Yes, life is a rich tapastry indeed and we would like to thank you for your contribution.You're welcome. I always think that people like yourself who are so willing to take on the onerous task of making decisions on behalf of illiterate Thai peasants and bar boys because they're too stupid/gullible/ill-informed to make the correct one for themselves set such an example of selflessness for the rest of us.

Your argument, I take it, is that because I've said that if an innocent person is killed by the government because they've been wrongfully convicted that's a "shit happens" event therefore I must believe that if an innocent person who hasn't been convicted of anything is killed by the government that's equally "shit happens" and morally equivalent? That's an interesting extension of the argument but not one I care to make.

[Dodger]

Thonglor wrote:


Your argument, I take it, is that because I've said that if an innocent person is killed by the government because they've been wrongfully convicted that's a "shit happens" event therefore I must believe that if an innocent person who hasn't been convicted of anything is killed by the government that's equally "shit happens" and morally equivalent? That's an interesting extension of the argument but not one I care to make

Haven't you figured out by now that I don't argue with people!

It's not MY argument...it's just YOU arguing with yourself right now. I simply cut n' paste your comments from two separate posts side-by-side to let you unscramble.

As far as your comments about my interactions with an " illiterate peasant boy"...so be it. I'm not quite sure how this fits in the context of this disucssion - so I guess I'll just have to let you unscramble this one too..

[thonglor55]

Dodger's selfless dedication to making decisions for those whom he deems incapable of making the "right" decision is an inspiration to us all. It's also gratifying to see that he recognises his limitations:
Haven't you figured out by now that I don't argue with people!

Thonglor55 wrote:


This penetrating analysis results from your close viewing of the program, where chapter and verse about the killing of nurses was given?

No, my penetrating analysis resulted from my close viewing of the terrorist tactics supported by Thaksin & Co. which was the root cause of all the killing which ocurred. The "effects" of the problem were the people who were injured or lost their lives during Thaksin's brutal attempt to over-throw the government. The "root cause" was none other than Thaksin and the ignorant farmers who were blind enough to follow him.

Hi,

Dodger, I agree on what you say, but then the terrorist insurgents hid behind the country peasants and it was mostly those that got annihiliated by the troops. Yes, the farmers were ignorant to the dangers and didn't realise they were getting used, but they also had a government under the military and Abbhisit that did nothing at all to help the rural poor whilst in power.

We never saw such tough action, only words, when the Country was brought to a standstill by yellowshirts with the airport blockade crippling the country.

We saw a lot of wrong and not much right.

[Khor tose]

No, my penetrating analysis resulted from my close viewing of the terrorist tactics supported by Thaksin & Co. which was the root cause of all the killing which ocurred. The "effects" of the problem were the people who were injured or lost their lives during Thaksin's brutal attempt to over-throw the government. The "root cause" was none other than Thaksin and the ignorant farmers who were blind enough to follow him.
\
Is this the same Dodger that goes on and on about his drug addicted boy friend? If it is, I am astonished that he thinks his judgement on anything is worth a damn.

[thonglor55]

We never saw such tough action, only words, when the Country was brought to a standstill by yellowshirts with the airport blockade crippling the country.Ah yes, the Yellow Shirts - they're the ones who believe that
the ignorant farmers who were blind enough to follow {Thaksin}have proved thereby that they can't be trusted to vote intelligently and that others should make their decisions for them ... enter Dodger, in selfless mode, making decisions to the right and left alternately for all the dumb-ass Thai peasants and boy prostitutes who support Thaksin.

[Beachlover]

Haven't you figured out by now that I don't argue with people!
Isn't that what you're doing now?


The soldiers in question were never convicted of anything...nor should they have been
I agree... they were doing their job and took significant casualties. Several were killed and many more wounded.


The administration at that time showed incredible restraint, even after Thaksin recruited armed militants (terrorists) to begin shooting people and starting fires which claimed the lives of many.
I agree. But I suspect there were motives behind their timing. The more damage and obstruction the red shirts caused, the less popular they became. What the government did was wait until the right time, when people's tolerance and patience for the protests had just about run out and the red shirts were seen to have had a "fair run", before going in to clear them out.

I know saying this, is like damning the government either way (good motive or bad) because when you look at it from a less sinister perspective, it's easy to argue they did do the right thing anyway. They allowed people to voice their concerns and have their protest before winding it up.

Personally, I think they should've kept it more under control, not allow it to spread, set up a more effective perimeter and focus on identifying and removing armed threats before winding it up... But the reality is it was probably in the government's best political interests to let the red shirts get a bit out of control and violent.


When it comes to things like this in Thailand, I've learned that there's simply no point in even having an opinion, because it does nothing but add unneeded mental stress. The red shirts are no better than the yellow shirts, and vice versa.
True... I don't think you can justify siding with any of them completely and people who do that are stupid.

As for having an opinion, I think it's fine to have an opinion but you should be cautious about reaching conclusions on the big picture (e.g. siding completely with the red shirts) as it's just way too complex. I agree it's easier not to bother.


We never saw such tough action, only words, when the Country was brought to a standstill by yellowshirts with the airport blockade crippling the country.
I agree... but their protest only lasted a week or so. They didn't stupidly try to sustain it for months and months as the red shirts did. The red shirts dragged it on way too long.

[ikarus]

No, my penetrating analysis resulted from my close viewing of the terrorist tactics supported by Thaksin & Co. which was the root cause of all the killing which ocurred. The "effects" of the problem were the people who were injured or lost their lives during Thaksin's brutal attempt to over-throw the government. The "root cause" was none other than Thaksin and the ignorant farmers who were blind enough to follow him.
\
Is this the same Dodger that goes on and on about his drug addicted boy friend? If it is, I am astonished that he thinks his judgement on anything is worth a damn.
I am wondering whether back in Chicago Dodger perceives himself as a left wing devoted supporter of Presidenat Obama. In Thiland the very same Dodger
would support semi-feudal oppressive regime and despise people movement towards more fair society. What a fucking hypocrite!

[Beachlover]

I am wondering whether back in Chicago Dodger perceives himself as a left wing devoted supporter of Presidenat Obama. In Thiland the very same Dodger
would support semi-feudal oppressive regime and despise people movement towards more fair society. What a fucking hypocrite!
Load of crap. I don't see anyone here really supporting the previous government (praising some of their actions doesn't count).

But I do see a lot of farang completely supporting the new red shirt government, which is no better than the previous one. In my opinion, neither side is "supportable"

I am wondering whether back in Chicago Dodger perceives himself as a left wing devoted supporter of Presidenat Obama. In Thiland the very same Dodger
would support semi-feudal oppressive regime and despise people movement towards more fair society. What a fucking hypocrite!
Load of crap. I don't see anyone here really supporting the previous government (praising some of their actions doesn't count).

But I do see a lot of farang completely supporting the new red shirt government, which is no better than the previous one. In my opinion, neither side is "supportable"


I agree,

You have the yellowshirts supported by the top brass of the military and the Police who wish for the ' same old, same old, ' carry on as we have brigade; and you have the Red shirt movement infiltrated by Thaksin's cronies which does nothing except raise the rural poor to revolt when in real terms the object of the exercise, is to bring about Thaksin's return.

The man in question is no better than other Dictators and just as guilty of corruption,self serving politics for personal enrichment and cronyism.