Nostalgia - what ever happened to the 'house boys'

I'm probably showing my age, but I remember in the days when the word 'gay' was in its infancy, and homosexuality, while legalised, was still a largely discreet culture; one would come across people from time to time who kept 'house boys'.

No-one ever referred to their 'partner' or 'boyfriend' in those days - but some richer (and usually active) guys would have a younger, (usually passive) 'house boy' who was normally detailed to clean, tidy, cook etc.

The house boy was never there against his will, but there was always an element of the master/slave about the arrangement, with sex portrayed as a punishment for some minor misdemeanour.

I recall calling at the house of a guy in London who always dressed and spoke like Noel Coward. His houseboy and another guy came down stairs..

'I hope you gave him a good buggy ride' - he called out in a voice the whole street could probably hear ' he was very naughty this morning..'

I wonder if Thai boys can ever be properly trained as house boys - does anyone attempt to keep a personal 'slave' these days?

[Thai Dyed]

As long as I've lived in Asia, I have always had a houseboy. I'm not about to start cooking, cleaning, and shopping myself. And I've never considered it a master/slave arrangement. I have always related to them more as part of my family.
I know some guys who have houseboys, cooks and drivers. But it's become more rare to see people with the latter two these days. Usually one competent boy can be trained to cook and tend to all the other household chores.

In days gone by I always picked my houseboys from the trade I picked up or sometimes got by referral through others. But my current boy is not one I started out with on a sexual basis, so it is all quite variable these days. A really good houseboy will also be sensitive to your sexual tastes and can find some nice boys to bring back while on his daily shopping routines for your consideration. Actually, I've found that I save a lot of time and money by employing a houseboy and I highly recommend doing so to others. There may be some pitfalls that you have to learn about, but far fewer in the long run than getting involved in love affairs that usually turn pretty messy after a while.

Thai Dyed

I'm pleased to hear they havn't vanished completely, and I do like the idea of your HB going to market and bringing back some lads for your delectation - there's nothing worse than possessive jealousy where gay relations are concerned..

..do you control your HB's sexual activity, or do you allow him a long leash?

I remember years ago giving a BJ to a Sri Lankan HB while his master watched (we were both seated in armchairs in his sitting room). The lad had just served me a G&T, and I was struck by his perfectly smooth black skin. He was wearing a traditional long shirt (cheesecloth, or something similar) with navy briefs underneath. He came very quickly, and not wanting to mess the furniture, I washed his semen down with a sip of gin - and then we continued our previous conversation..

[cdnmatt]

If I had to guess, I would say "house boys" are few and far between mainly due to large shifts in society and culture. I'm not quite 30, so younger than many on the board, and can say I couldn't ever fathom having a "house boy", and I don't know anyone my age who would be comfortable with that. A cleaning lady who comes once a week? Sure. A "house boy" who is somewhat my slave, including for sexual pleasure? Never.

We weren't raised in the same world as you guys, where there was a rigid hierarchy of social status' and superiority. We were raised in a world where everyone is equal, and everyone demands the same level of basic respect, irregardless. Neither is right or wrong, but just different. And that's probably why the "house boy" concept is far less prevalent nowadays. It's a taboo now.

cdnmatt,

Each to their own, but there was absolutely no coercion in the old order, and a house boy can enjoy a lot less stress in his life, a much better standard of living, and a lot less fear of being 'outed' than a village boy who goes to work in a Pattaya bar.

I find the modern order a bit disquieting and depressing - it's more egalitarian, to be true, but the pursuit of the common denominator seems to push everyone down into the gutter..

[cdnmatt]

Each to their own, but there was absolutely no coercion in the old order, and a house boy can enjoy a lot less stress in his life, a much better standard of living, and a lot less fear of being 'outed' than a village boy who goes to work in a Pattaya bar.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean to imply there was any coercion involved. Just saying people's perception of social status' has changed, and an owner vs. servant relationship goes against the grain of how society has evolved over the last several decades. Nowadays, who you are, and how much you have doesn't matter as much as it once did. Instead, if you want respect from people, you better show them the same level of respect in return.

That's why having a "house boy" is somewhat of a taboo nowadays. Nobody is going to accept having an "owner", and at the same time, most people don't want "servants". It's not the same as before, where having servants was a sign of success and respectability, whereas the same time, someone poor working for a wealthy boss, and being taken care, was also a sign of good social status, and something to be proud of. Doesn't work like that anymore.


I find the modern order a bit disquieting and depressing - it's more egalitarian, to be true

heh, I can see that. Tell that to the people who started from the other side of the fence though. They'll probably have a different perspective on it.


but the pursuit of the common denominator seems to push everyone down into the gutter..

I think there's quite a few more forces at work to bring everyone down than just societies perception of social status'.

[newalaan]

a house boy can enjoy a lot less stress in his life, a much better standard of living, and a lot less fear of being 'outed' than a village boy who goes to work in a Pattaya bar.This is true. I know of one thai guy who is a 'houseboy' for a well-off farang in Bkk. I dont know the farang, i only know the boy, there is no sexual element in the work, the farang just enjoys having a (cute/handsome) guy helping round the house. The thai guy is not 100% gay, but gets a very decent wage and very comfortable working conditions, and likes living in Bkk. Works very well for both parties.

[ikarus]

a house boy can enjoy a lot less stress in his life, a much better standard of living, and a lot less fear of being 'outed' than a village boy who goes to work in a Pattaya bar.This is true. I know of one thai guy who is a 'houseboy' for a well-off farang in Bkk. I dont know the farang, i only know the boy, there is no sexual element in the work, the farang just enjoys having a (cute/handsome) guy helping round the house. The thai guy is not 100% gay, but gets a very decent wage and very comfortable working conditions, and likes living in Bkk. Works very well for both parties.
In Thailand house boy and boy friend are two different concepts. Farang may have Thai bf and house boy, of course, but
mixing these two (i.e. having sexual relations with house boy) will hardly yield good results.

[Rene]

. Farang may have Thai bf and house boy, of course, but
mixing these two (i.e. having sexual relations with house boy) will hardly yield good results.

More than 90% of the farang boyfriend relationships I have seen in Thailand end in utter disaster. I would advise someone to keep the houseboy and dump the BF.

By shading the words he uses, cndmatt is able to preserve the illusion that he has a boyfriend. But in fact, if you remove the element of money that Matt brings in from his work as a shill for the porno industry, which is the real glue in the whole arrangement, there would be no boyfriend at all.

Again, well over 90% of the farang-boyfriend relationships I see in Thailand are nothing more than long-term live-in prostitutes masquerading under that quaint rubric known as "love" which wouldn't exist had the word not been invented.

At least the houseboy-farang arrangement, with or without sex, is an honest assessment which won't lead to further delusion which amounts to no more than intellectual masturbation.

[cdnmatt]

By shading the words he uses, cndmatt is able to preserve the illusion that he has a boyfriend. But in fact, if you remove the element of money that Matt brings in from his work as a shill for the porno industry, which is the real glue in the whole arrangement, there would be no boyfriend at all.

Go fuck yourself, and don't talk about things when you have no idea what you're talking about.

And we've been poor before. And I mean POOR, to the point we couldn't afford a 6 baht pack of noodles for dinner. Doing great now, but wasn't like that before. If he's willing to stick with me through all that bullshit, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet. Do you really believe two people can live with each other daily, and sleep beside each other every night for over two years, but yet not love each other? That's simply delusional.

Might not be a perfect relationship, but it's hardly fake. If anything, he loves me alot more than I love him. After all, I'm the only person in his life who's ever given a shit about him, and has been there for him long term.

Go for it Matt, for someone to take the time to write what Rene wrote when he hasn't the foggiest who you are makes him out to be rather despicable. one might add the word jealous too...

[Thai Dyed]

If anything, he loves me alot more than I love him. After all, I'm the only person in his life who's ever given a shit about him, and has been there for him long term.

There you go again Matt. Ever the pimp! If you're not pimping porno, then you're pimping your fantasies to all and sundry on this forum.

And your proof of "love" is that your BF has sucked your cock every night for two years. Can we ask for that definition to be listed in the OED and Wikipedia?

[Koh Samui Luv]

one might add the word jealous too...

If you believe anyone would be jealous of someone living with a moneyboy he picked up in Pattaya, then you belong in a lunatic asylum combat.

Rene hit a raw nerve with both of you. Killed two birds with one stone I might add.

If you believe anyone would be jealous of someone living with a moneyboy he picked up in Pattaya, then you belong in a lunatic asylum combat.

Another nasty piece of work Koh Samui, you're going to tell me that all bar boys are of the same ilk next which makes you out to be even more of a moron than I originally thought. Perhaps you were taken for a ride and never got over it, it happens especially when the boy is around 20 and his 'customer' is twice, three times his age, but some good relationship do happen, not that many but they do happen.

[cdnmatt]

Don't worry combat, you need to accept what all the Pattaya sexpats tell you as reality. After all, these are very refined people who believe the highlight of the month is boy bingo at Happy Go-Go Bar on the 22nd. They must know all about life!

God forbid a Thai and white guy actually love each other. Incomprehensible, I tell ya!

If anyone thinks we're capable of putting up with each other on a daily basis for over two years without loving each other, they're fucken insane. Long-term relationships are never easy, and they simply can't sustain themselves without love. Simple as that.

[springco]

you're going to tell me that all bar boys are of the same ilk...
...but some good relationship do happen

I presume you also expect us to believe in Tinkerbell and the tooth fairy as well combat?

Are you a porno pimp living with a long term moneyboy too combat? That's cool. Just be honest about it.

[Thai Dyed]

Don't worry combat, you need to accept what all the Pattaya sexpats tell you as reality.

God forbid a Thai and white guy actually love each other.

If anyone thinks we're capable of putting up with each other on a daily basis for over two years without loving each other, they're fucken insane.

Matt, what makes you think all of us live in Pattaya? That's another delusional stretch of your already overburdened imagination.

It's the proof of your "love" Matt that has me rolling on the floor laughing, that you have slept in the same bed for two years. That is really funny.

And then finally you have said you're "capable of putting up with each other on a daily basis for over two years". So you admit that you are "PUTTING UP" with one another.

You and combat get nuttier by the minute. And the nuttier you get the more defensive you are. ROTFL

[Beachlover]

I find the modern order a bit disquieting and depressing - it's more egalitarian, to be true, but the pursuit of the common denominator seems to push everyone down into the gutter..
Sorry, but I find the implication of this comment a bit f*cked up...

You're basically saying you prefer the old days where the poor subservient Asia boy or girl serves the big white guy and looks up to you as their superior right? Wait on you hand and foot? Be at your beck and call? Take whatever shit you want to dish out? Fuck off.

Those days are declining and will eventually come to an end.

Asia now has more billionaires than Europe and is second only to America: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busines ... 6019075226 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/number-of-asian-billionaires-second-to-us-forbes-ultra-rich-list-shows/story-e6frg8zx-1226019075226)

The Asian Development Bank reckons incomes in Asia could equal incomes in Europe today by 2050 and that's a massive gap to close: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/busine ... urope-adb/ (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/business/a/-/world/9957628/asia-could-be-as-wealthy-as-europe-adb/)

[Thai Dyed]

blah... blah... blah...

Ah... and now the third horseman weighs in on the matter with his pearls of wisdom.
It's Beachlover! Hallelujah!

[Beachlover]

If I had to guess, I would say "house boys" are few and far between mainly due to large shifts in society and culture. I'm not quite 30, so younger than many on the board, and can say I couldn't ever fathom having a "house boy", and I don't know anyone my age who would be comfortable with that. A cleaning lady who comes once a week? Sure. A "house boy" who is somewhat my slave, including for sexual pleasure? Never.
Well put. I agree... Thank goodness for that.


We weren't raised in the same world as you guys, where there was a rigid hierarchy of social status' and superiority. We were raised in a world where everyone is equal, and everyone demands the same level of basic respect, irregardless...
people's perception of social status' has changed, and an owner vs. servant relationship goes against the grain of how society has evolved over the last several decades. Nowadays, who you are, and how much you have doesn't matter as much as it once did. Instead, if you want respect from people, you better show them the same level of respect in return.
Totally agree...

Personally, I think you can earn whatever. But there's a certain degree of respect you don't deserve to have if you can't cook and clean and sort out your own sh*t. I also have a massive dislike for people who treat their servants and people who serve them like shit.


most people don't want "servants". It's not the same as before, where having servants was a sign of success and respectability,
I agree that servants aren't the sign of success they once were. Having said that, I do think lots of people want "servants", though maybe not in the way being talked about here. People want assistants and helpers to help sort out little peripheral stuff, like a cleaner who comes once a week or a virtual assistant to help with data entry and simple research tasks.

In addition to that, it's very common for wealthier Asians to have a full-time maid. In wealthier countries like Singapore, it's the normal for middle-class families and even common for working class families to employ a maid from one of their poorer neighbouring countries like Indonesia or the Philippines. It's the income disparity that makes this possible. In wealthier countries, having a maid to look after the housework and take care of the kids makes it possible for Mum and Dad to be out earning their high incomes.

Personally, I don't think it's good for kids to grow up with someone who fetches things and waits for them hand and foot (and no I did not grow up with any sort of house help). In fact, Singapore's famous leader, Lee Kuan Yew once said he declined to move into the government's official residence because he didn't want his kids growing up with the experience that if they were throwing a ball around and it rolled into a gutter, someone would always run to fetch it for them.

Are you a porno pimp living with a long term moneyboy too combat? That's cool. Just be honest about it.

I just love all this shit coming from guys who do or have frequented bars to buy sex and have over the years enjoyed a porno movie...

And the answer to your rather silly question is a resounding no.

[Hmmm]

Nowadays, who you are, and how much you have doesn't matter as much as it once did. Instead, if you want respect from people, you better show them the same level of respect in return.

Er ... who's going to tell the Thais this ? What you describe may apply in the west, but it's light years from being the case in Thai society.

As much as I think relationships should be equal, if the Thai half of a relationship is young and comes from the lower echelons of society, they have little experience of being treated with real respect by anyone. They have been the lesser partner in almost every significant interaction they have ever experienced. While we might expect that they might then greatly appreciate being treated as an equal, it runs contrary to the way they have been 'educated' to believe things should be.

I still believe in equal relationships ... but they would be easier if the Thais did too.

[ikarus]

Nowadays, who you are, and how much you have doesn't matter as much as it once did. Instead, if you want respect from people, you better show them the same level of respect in return.

Er ... who's going to tell the Thais this ? What you describe may apply in the west, but it's light years from being the case in Thai society.

As much as I think relationships should be equal, if the Thai half of a relationship is young and comes from the lower echelons of society, they have little experience of being treated with real respect by anyone. They have been the lesser partner in almost every interaction they have ever experienced. While we might expect that they might then greatly appreciate being treated as an equal, it runs contrary to the way they have been 'educated' to believe things should be.

I still believe in equal relationships ... but they would be easier if the Thais did too.
It is quite amazing to see how you, guys, try to offend each other instead of making an afford to understand something about Thai culture. I frankly have very difficult time to understand the point BL is trying to make. Remember that old Golden rule?
Those who have the gold rule. It does not matter whether you are farang or Thai if you can afford you definitely can hire the house boy who will perform expected maid functions: cleaning, cooking etc. In other words, white male definitely can have a Thai servant no matter what BL is trying to say. Moreover, in many Asian cultures it is not unusual to have an older patron who takes care of younger lover. The thing is the young lover has completely different (much higher) status than house maid. Therefore combining these two functions would be highly unusual in Thai society and generally will not work...

[Dodger]

cdnMatt,

You need to sharpen your board skills my friend, as you just fell for Rene's bait... hook...line...and sinker.

You and your bf are both young and there's no reason why anyone should question the validity of your relationship or the love that you and your partner obviously have for each other.

Some of the old birds on this forum with their ruffled feathers and twisted beeks have nothing better to do than to sling their scorn at others who are in fact accomplishing something that they (apparently) have been unable to accomplish in their own lives.

Continue on with your relationship...appreciate the fact that you are still young...and whatever you do, don't listen to people who admit (through their own words) that they are consumed with their own personal failures.

Now, watch how I've just baited them.

Well put Dodger..

Long-term relationships are never easy, and they simply can't sustain themselves without love. Simple as that.

Right on Matt, trouble with Rene and his like is they expect both sex and love to come their way if they are paying and when it doesn't they like to tar everyone else with the same brush.

Whatever, as Dodger said:

"Continue on with your relationship...appreciate the fact that you are still young...and whatever you do, don't listen to people who admit (through their own words) that they are consumed with their own personal failures".

All the best to both you and Kim...

I am not sure....should I say thanks for the plug Matt?
:dontknow:

Beachlover wrote: You're basically saying you prefer the old days where the poor subservient Asia boy or girl serves the big white guy and looks up to you as their superior right? Wait on you hand and foot? Be at your beck and call? Take whatever shit you want to dish out? Fuck off.

What's to stop a young farang being employed as an HB by a wealthy asian guy? The world is re-balancing, and not before time.

Some gay guys are naturally dominant, some are naturally subserviant; and I suspect there are far more doms and subs than there are guys who are genuinely egalitarian. However, the era of political correctness pressures both sides into concealing their preferences.

As I said earlier, there never was any coercion to become an HB, and the arrangement lasted just as long as both parties were content. However, the modern world is filled with people who feel they have the right to interfere in the affairs of others.

Where did this 'right' to bully come from? While most people prefer to go with the flow, a supposedly liberated society has gained some very nasty undercurrents.

[Dodger]

Beachlover wrote:


You're basically saying you prefer the old days where the poor subservient Asia boy or girl serves the big white guy and looks up to you as their superior right? Wait on you hand and foot? Be at your beck and call? Take whatever shit you want to dish out?

It sounds to me like you've just described the average farang/Thai boy relationship.

Ther term "House Boy" is gone with the wind (fortunately), although the people with the same superiority complexes (dillusions of self-worth) are still around in mass.

Rarely is there a night that passes when I'm in LOS that I don't witness a farang walking into a bar with a Thai boy at his side - who then babbles for hour on end with a group of his farang friends without even a hint that the boy he's with is in the same room. Regardless if the boy is the farangs short-time companion for the evening or his live-in boyfriend, it makes no difference. The farang has just placed himself in the role of "superior", where the Thai boy is basically there on his beck and call. In this scenerio, the farang exhibits the same exact traits that you (Beachlover) have just applied to the old white slave masters of an era gone by.

During my last holiday a farang walked up to the bar where I was seated and immediately started chatting with me. I consider myself to be a friendly person by nature and normally would have enjoyed this chat, although when the farang walked up to the bar I was sitting directly next to a boy I was spending time with and were fully engaged in a conversation of our own. Not only did the farang rudely cut in the middle of our discussion - he actually pulled up a bar stool right in between the boy and myself - turned the back of the bar stool towards the boy and starting talking to me. After sharing my thoughts with the farang about his actions he immediately apologized - turned his bar stool to a center position as to not have the boy staring at the back of his neck - and just started talking again. I then shared a few more of my thoughts with the farang about his actions and he abruptly left that area of the bar with a red face and never returned.

The term "House Boy" may have disappeared - but that dillusion of superiority hasn't.

[mj_87-old]

You're basically saying you prefer the old days where the poor subservient Asia boy or girl serves the big white guy and looks up to you as their superior right? Wait on you hand and foot? Be at your beck and call? Take whatever shit you want to dish out? Fuck off.


As a white man who has lots and lots of privilege which I recognize and enjoy, my answer to your (rhetorical) question would be OF COURSE I WANT THE GOOD OLD DAYS OF BEING LOOKED UP TO AS BEING SUPERIOR BY MY SOCIALLY INFERIOR (BUT FANTASTIC LOOKING AND VERY FUCKABLE) HOUSEBOY! DAH.
Very few people voluntarily give up privilege.

[cdnmatt]

As a white man who has lots and lots of privilege which I recognize and enjoy, my answer to your (rhetorical) question would be OF COURSE I WANT THE GOOD OLD DAYS OF BEING LOOKED UP TO AS BEING SUPERIOR BY MY SOCIALLY INFERIOR (BUT FANTASTIC LOOKING AND VERY FUCKABLE) HOUSEBOY! DAH.
Very few people voluntarily give up privilege.

If you believe that's a good life, then I feel sorry for you, because you obviously have no idea of what a good life really is.

[mj_87-old]

As a white man who has lots and lots of privilege which I recognize and enjoy, my answer to your (rhetorical) question would be OF COURSE I WANT THE GOOD OLD DAYS OF BEING LOOKED UP TO AS BEING SUPERIOR BY MY SOCIALLY INFERIOR (BUT FANTASTIC LOOKING AND VERY FUCKABLE) HOUSEBOY! DAH.
Very few people voluntarily give up privilege.

If you believe that's a good life, then I feel sorry for you, because you obviously have no idea of what a good life really is.
I have a pretty good life. I have money and status. Hmmm...What else is there? But I am glad for your sympathy and mine goes out to you. Or not really sympathy but your sorrow...you in return have my deepest sorrow for the life you live.

[Dodger]

cdcmatt,

Jeeze...mj_87 is merely aTROLL and now you're taking his bait too.

I know you're young - but stop being so naive.

[Thai Dyed]

cdcmatt,
Jeeze...mj_87 is merely aTROLL and now you're taking his bait too.
I know you're young - but stop being so naive.

Dodger, are you now calling everyone who disagrees with you a "troll"? This is becoming a habit with you. I hardly think mj_87 is a "troll" in any way, shape or form.
Furthermore, I think someone whose boyfriend is locked up in the hoosegow, and who has expressed as many conflicts in his own life as you have, is in no position to be passing judgment on others. And you are defending Matt who is shacked up with a moneyboy he found in Pattaya, and makes his living as a shill for the porno industry? You can't see the writing on the wall? OMG! What next?

[attachment=0:39y4rad7]The Writing on the Wall.jpg[/attachment:39y4rad7]

[Dodger]

cdnmatt...

Remember when I wrote this:


Dodger wrote,

Continue on with your relationship...appreciate the fact that you are still young...and whatever you do, don't listen to people who admit (through their own words) that they are consumed with their own personal failures.

Now, watch how I've just baited them.

Now, just look at Thai Dyed squirming on the hook...see how it's done!!!

[mj_87-old]

I was lucky enough to have been born in the US. I went to school got a good job and worked pretty hard. I did nothing special other than being born in the right country at the right time in history. That accident of birth has given me educational and work opportunities that have made me financially successful but pretty much un-noticed in the US. However, when I go to the LOS I have a bit of cash in my pocket and my status in society is quite high.

I do recognize that the world is changing and being a white guy in Asia no longer carrier as much advantage is it did in the past. As a very selfish person I am very sad to see my white privilege slipping away. But certainly will hire at least one or two house boys when I retire to the LOS. I can afford them.

When I am in Asia I do have cash and as Beachlover pointed out in the past that makes me a superior asset to society.

[lukylok]

When I am in Asia I do have cash and as Beachlover pointed out in the past that makes me a superior asset to society.

If you really believe that, it doesn't say much about that education you were lucky to receive.

[mj_87-old]

When I am in Asia I do have cash and as Beachlover pointed out in the past that makes me a superior asset to society.

If you really believe that, it doesn't say much about that education you were lucky to receive.

Open a dictionary and look up the words irony and sarcasm.

Why do contributors not just post what they really mean instead of wrapping everything up in riddles, sarcasm, or irony?

It's getting to be a general cop-out on SGT that when anybody is challenged, the inevitable response is"..oh you don't understand irony, satire, or sarcasm.."

Horseshit!

Judging by the literary quality of some of the contributions, spelling and basic grammar is a problem - so the idea that the contributor is an expert on the use of the devices mentioned is nothing short of laughable.

mj87 - this is not directed at you in particular - just a general observation


:occasion9:

[Koh Samui Luv]

Now, watch how I've just baited them.[/quote]

Now, just look at Thai Dyed squirming on the hook...see how it's done!!!

What Thai Dye stated are facts about your lives that you and Matt have already clearly written about yourselves in previous posts. If you don't want people to remind you of the things you already admitted are true, then may I suggest both you and Matt stop using this forum as a confessional.

[Koh Samui Luv]

Why do contributors not just post what they really mean instead of wrapping everything up in riddles, sarcasm, or irony?
It's getting to be a general cop-out on SGT that when anybody is challenged, the inevitable response is"..oh you don't understand irony, satire, or sarcasm.."


Odd that you would make this statement scottish-guy since riddles, sarcasm and irony have been your hallmark. They are your stock in trade.

[mj_87-old]

Why do contributors not just post what they really mean instead of wrapping everything up in riddles, sarcasm, or irony?
It's getting to be a general cop-out on SGT that when anybody is challenged, the inevitable response is"..oh you don't understand irony, satire, or sarcasm.."

Horseshit!

Judging by the literary quality of some of the contributions, spelling and basic grammar is a problem - so the idea that the contributor is an expert on the use of the devices mentioned is nothing short of laughable.

mj87 - this is not directed at you in particular - just a general observation
:occasion9:

SG your comments are fair enough.

I have had modest success in life with some savings. I like the idea of getting a house boy when and if I retire to Thailand. As a dig at Beachlover, he states in one of his earlier posts that money is an important factor in determining a persons worth to society. Beachlover I would prefer the "old days where the poor subservient Asia boy or girl serves the big white guy and looks up to you as their superior right? Wait on you hand and foot? Be at your beck and call?"

Americans and Western Europeans generally have more money than Asian people so in the BL world they are more valuable human beings. I do not have that belief but if it is a common value in Asia well then I am happy to live in a place where I am valued. Why would I want to give that up?

[Thai Dyed]

The assumption is that having a house boy is a master/slave relationship, which is totally false.

I have had houseboys for several years now. Once, several years ago, I had a staff of 5 to run my household. Today I have one because that's all I need. He is live in. He has his own bedroom which is very similar to my own. He has been with me for seven years now.

As an added benefit, because this boy is a maths and science whiz, several boys in our area come to my house for regular tutoring sessions which he provides to them gratis. It's a great way to meet some lovely boys!

I know at least a few others who have a very similar situation to my own, so it is hardly unique to me.

[Brad the Impala]

The assumption is that having a house boy is a master/slave relationship, which is totally false.



But who is really the master?

The Servant:

[youtube:2xhmppjr]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFVWdWOK9zs[/youtube:2xhmppjr]

[Beachlover]

The world is re-balancing, and not before time.
That's a much better comment. :happy7:


Rarely is there a night that passes when I'm in LOS that I don't witness a farang walking into a bar with a Thai boy at his side - who then babbles for hour on end with a group of his farang friends without even a hint that the boy he's with is in the same room. Regardless if the boy is the farangs short-time companion for the evening or his live-in boyfriend, it makes no difference. The farang has just placed himself in the role of "superior", where the Thai boy is basically there on his beck and call. In this scenerio, the farang exhibits the same exact traits that you (Beachlover) have just applied to the old white slave masters of an era gone by.

... The term "House Boy" may have disappeared - but that dillusion of superiority hasn't.
Yep! I see this all the time in Thailand. What is it with farangs getting big headed and talking down on Thais and Asians?

There's a difference between how you accept your role as the social superior (phu yai), being older/wealthier etc. and how you treat your social inferior (phu noi).

It is possible to accept your role as the social "elder" and behave appropriately while treating your Thai partner or service people with good common respect and courtesy.

But NO! So many farangs let it go to their heads, decide to be a DICKHEAD and treat their Thai partner, service people and any other Asians they might run into with no common respect or courtesy! I love the example of one farang who posted a "list of rules for his boyfriend" on another forum, encouraging other farangs to do the same. Dopey moron.

I was on a boat a while back where there were these Israeli farangs (they could've been from any other country, but they said they were Israeli) treating the Thai service people like SHIT! Ordering them around arrogantly and such. They were perfectly nice to other farangs around the place. Then I noticed they were treating other Asian tourists, including myself the same way they were treating the Thais!


During my last holiday a farang walked up to the bar... Not only did the farang rudely cut in the middle of our discussion - he actually pulled up a bar stool right in between the boy and myself - turned the back of the bar stool towards the boy and starting talking to me... shared a few more of my thoughts with the farang about his actions and he abruptly left that area of the bar with a red face and never returned.
Good on you, Dodger!

[Beachlover]

As a white man who has lots and lots of privilege which I recognize and enjoy, my answer to your (rhetorical) question would be OF COURSE I WANT THE GOOD OLD DAYS OF BEING LOOKED UP TO AS BEING SUPERIOR BY MY SOCIALLY INFERIOR (BUT FANTASTIC LOOKING AND VERY FUCKABLE) HOUSEBOY!
You're a fuckstick.

[Dodger]

I've always felt that people who see themselves as superior beings are destined to live lonely and bitter lives. Lonely, because those who they've placed below them get tired of looking up, and bitter, because their dilussion of self-worth gets mangled in the process. End result: They become consumed by their bitterness, blame the exact same people who they treated as inferiors for their consequences, and then tell others who are truly happy that they are dillusional.

It happens every time!

[cdnmatt]

Matt, what makes you think all of us live in Pattaya?

Because that's all you guys ever bloody talk about on this forum.


It's the proof of your "love" Matt that has me rolling on the floor laughing, that you have slept in the same bed for two years. That is really funny.

Up to you. At least I don't live my life in fear of being hurt, to the point where instead of taking any risk whatsoever with my heart, I just rent boyfriends by the day. That way I would never have to open my heart at all, and could live in a small bubble that I create for myself, while preaching to everyone that I have it all figured out.


And then finally you have said you're "capable of putting up with each other on a daily basis for over two years". So you admit that you are "PUTTING UP" with one another.

Ask any married man if they "put up" with their wife. Enough said. It's not meant to be derogatory.

[ikarus]

I was on a boat a while back where there were these Israeli farangs (they could've been from any other country, but they said they were Israeli) treating the Thai service people like SHIT! Ordering them around arrogantly and such. They were perfectly nice to other farangs around the place. Then I noticed they were treating other Asian tourists, including myself the same way they were treating the Thais!


[/quote]
I think you spend too much time with pathological anti-semites from "Baht-stop" and it now shows.

[Thai Dyed]

I was on a boat a while back where there were these Israeli farangs (they could've been from any other country, but they said they were Israeli) treating the Thai service people like SHIT! Ordering them around arrogantly and such. They were perfectly nice to other farangs around the place. Then I noticed they were treating other Asian tourists, including myself the same way they were treating the Thais!

I think you spend too much time with pathological anti-semites from "Baht-stop" and it now shows.

This should come as no surprise ikarus. Beachlover is our resident mishuginah.

[ikarus]

Thanks. I edited my post. It is,of course, BL who spends too much time on Baht-stop. By the way, what he is posting in this thread is absolute bullshit. When I stayed in Malaysia, there was not a single day, when local newspapers would not publish something about abuses by local families their Indonesian maids. I saw when I lived in HK how badly many Chinese families
treat Phillipino maids. Recently Indonesian government suggested a special law prescribing how Indonesian maids should be treated offshore. The trigger for this law was the execution of Indonesian maid in Saudi Arabia (of which Indonesian government was not even warned). In other words, it is Asians themselves who treat Asian maids quite badly not Westerners as BL claims. On the contrary, I would not recall a single article in Thai press about farangs treating badly Thai maids (though surely some shit do happen cause Thailand traditionally attracted a lot of white trash). In light of these facts, I would characterize BL posts as incorrect to put it very mildly (or racist speaking bluntly).

[Beachlover]

I think you spend too much time with pathological anti-semites from "Baht-stop" and it now shows.
You're kidding right? Calling me an anti-semite? I think you're a complete and utter fucking moron...

1. I have nothing against Israelis or Jews (had little to no dealings with them in my life) and no opinion on the whole Middle-east thing.

2. I specifically put "they could've been from any other country" in brackets afterwards so as not to make it appear I had anything specific against Israelis as I'm aware there are some sensitive issues around that country. The relevant fact in this point is they were farangs. They could've been American or German for all I care.

3. I've only logged in to post on Baht Stop once in the last three weeks. I tend to disagree with most of the posters' irrational political views there and cop a lot of flak from them for it. The board is heavily left wing and quite ridiculous.


When I stayed in Malaysia, there was not a single day, when local newspapers would not publish something about abuses by local families their Indonesian maids. I saw when I lived in HK how badly many Chinese families treat Phillipino maids. Recently Indonesian government suggested a special law prescribing how Indonesian maids should be treated offshore...
Did I in ANY way deny Asians miss-treat their service people? No. I see and hear about it all the time too. I said I have a great dislike for people who miss-treat the people who serve them and this applies to anyone... Asian, Western or Arab.

What I DON'T like is Westerners coming to Asia, thinking they are superior and entitled to treat any and all Asians as inferior and lacking basic common respect when interacting with them.

[ikarus]

I think you spend too much time with pathological anti-semites from "Baht-stop" and it now shows.
You're kidding right? Calling me an anti-semite? I think you're a complete and utter fucking moron...

Did I in ANY way deny Asians miss-treat their service people? No. I see and hear about it all the time too. I said I have a great dislike for people who miss-treat the people who serve them and this applies to anyone... Asian, Western or Arab.
.
Since nowdays it is mostly Asians have nowdays Asian maids, it is quite bizzare to pick on farangs as major source of mistreatment of Asian maids. To the best of my knowledge many Thais do work in Israel and overall they are treated quite well (otherwise, they would hardly go there in substantial quantities). You have chosen to illustrate your case by Israelis.
There is no way to verify your account. That gave me the reason to say what I have said. You can be sure that I am not going to allow you to bullshit here with your anti-semitic anmd racist lies. Keep it in your miserable mind, motherfucker...

I see no evidence of anti-semitic comments on SGT.

What I do see occasionaly are (some) jewish people who are paranoid and who use the "anti-semite" card at every opportunity - which devalues the whole concept really.

[Beachlover]

Scottish... Thanks for your rational and realistic perspective


I am not going to allow you to bullshit here with your anti-semitic anmd racist lies. Keep it in your miserable mind, motherfucker...
Get FUCKED. For you to come on and accuse someone who hasn't got an anti-semitic bone in his body of being an anti-semite is beyond disgusting.

When someone tells me they're Jewish, it barely registers on my radar. I'm neutral. I employ contractors who are Jewish. I have clients who are Jewish. I did not even STOP to consciously think what them being Jewish MEANS until you came up with this shite. You're a fucking stupid moron.

I challenge you to find a SINGLE post where I have said ANYTHING against Israelis or Jews on Baht Stop. In fact, I'm heavily supportive of Reggie, the most vocal Jew there.

I described the boat experience as an example of FARANGS treating Thais and Asians with little common respect. The farangs happened to be Israelis in this example. I specifically stated they could've been from any other country. If they had been German or American would you have accused me of being "anti-German" or "anti-American"?

Fuck off with your false anti-semitic accusations and keep your chip on the shoulder Jewish bullshit to yourself.

[Rush, Yet Again]

I have nothing against Israelis or Jews (had little to no dealings with them in my life)


I employ contractors who are Jewish. I have clients who are Jewish.

So which is it? Or did you just hire a whole bunch of Jewish contractors and land a new slate of Jewish clients in the last twenty-four hours?

I donтАЩt believe being anti-semitic is one of your faults Bitchy; you hate everyone equally. But for some reason in your previous post you felt the need to identify the farang you were bitching about as being Israeli, which had nothing to do with their actions. You canтАЩt fault others for finding your statement to be anti-semitic, even though it appears you were just running off at the mouth as usual. ThatтАЩs the problem with having diarrhea of the mouth, sometimes it forces you into a coprophagic feast.

[Beachlover]

1. My earlier statement about having little or no dealings with Jewish people in my life was not accurate. I do deal with Jewish people all the time. I just didn't realise it at first because the fact they are Jewish is insignificant to me. It's never come up as an issue or point of interest. I'm pretty neutral about them. I asked someone on Baht Stop how the Jewish faith deals with homosexuality out of curiosity once... that's about it. I also deal with a few Mormons and this I do notice because you need to take measures to avoid offending them.

2. I identified the farang in that story as Israeli because that's what they were. If they were Aussies, I would've mentioned they were Aussie farang. If they were British, I would've said they were British farang. I also mentioned it because I asked them where they were from. I couldn't identify their accents and was curious at the time.

3. If mentioning some people in a story as being Israeli is anti-semitic, then you may as well call Justme's story about the customer who tried to cheat the off fee anti-Singaporean as he mentioned he was Singaporean. You could also call Scottish anti-American because he told a story about being verbally abused in Phuket by an American. It's just a ridiculous irrelevant conclusion to make.

As for the rest of your dopey comments, Rush... I did see your 1,500+ word fantasy where you described me as a pre-pubescent kid being abused by older men (for others who read this - I'm not kidding, that's what it was). Creepy and sick would be an understatement. You really are a sleazy and mentally disturbed middle-aged loser.

[Rush, Yet Again]

Actually what I said, Bitchy, was that you were a little ladyboy wannabe whose fondest desire in life is to move to Pattaya, get a job in Sunee, and find an old fat farang to love and service nightly. But your story works too, if thatтАЩs the one that rocks your boat.

Thanks for clarifying that your first statement, that you did not know any Jewish people, was inaccurate. I guess тАЬI just didnтАЩt realize it at firstтАЩ means you spent the next 24 hours contacting all your contractors and clients to find out which of them were Jewish so that you could correct your previous statement. Right?


I also deal with a few Mormons and this I do notice because you need to take measures to avoid offending them.


You do realize that this statement exemplifies a person rife with prejudicial beliefs, donтАЩt you?

You really are an odd little creature.

[Smiles]

" ... I also deal with a few Mormons and this I do notice because you need to take measures to avoid offending them ... "
And did you manage that well?

I wonder how many millions of people have pointlessly died over the centuries, in the name of organised religion?

Thai Buddhism is probably the most pacifist major religion on the planet, and the tolerance of the Thais when confronted with loutish and insensitive farangs is truly commendable.

So don't go bitching about the religion or ethnicity of your upbringing, or that of people you know - leave that at home..

Look around you in Thailand, marvel at the intricate temple architecture, and the complexity of the culture - and absorb a little good karma..

~~~

On a amusing note, an older, but really nice little lady I've known for several years in Hua Hin has just got herself married off to a kind but rather ancient farang..

..she thought she was going to live in Australia with him, but has texted me to say that she's just arrived at a place called Vienna...

[Dodger]

scottish-guy wrote:


see no evidence of anti-semitic comments on SGT.

What I do see occasionaly are (some) jewish people who are paranoid and who use the "anti-semite" card at every opportunity - which devalues the whole concept really

You took the words right out of my mouth.

A good example of this (as you have already noticed) is when Beachlover simply referred to the assholes who were treating the Thais poorly by their country of origin - and all this anti-semitic bullshit started.

If Beachlovers account of what he witnessed was accurate, and I have no reason to believe that it's not, than those assholes from Israel were described just the way they should be described...as assholes. If someone doesn't like it because the guys who were being accurately decribed as assholes came from a certain country of origin, then they are just as fucked up as the assholes on the boat.

[anonone]

I wonder how many millions of people have pointlessly died over the centuries, in the name of organised religion?

Thai Buddhism is probably the most pacifist major religion on the planet, and the tolerance of the Thais when confronted with loutish and insensitive farangs is truly commendable.

So don't go bitching about the religion or ethnicity of your upbringing, or that of people you know - leave that at home..

Look around you in Thailand, marvel at the intricate temple architecture, and the complexity of the culture - and absorb a little good karma..

~~~

On a amusing note, an older, but really nice little lady I've known for several years in Hua Hin has just got herself married off to a kind but rather ancient farang..

..she thought she was going to live in Australia with him, but has texted me to say that she's just arrived at a place called Vienna...

Hilarious. My last visit to Vienna, there were T-shirts everywhere with "There are no kangaroos in Austria". Thanks for the laugh.

[Beachlover]

If someone doesn't like it because the guys who were being accurately decribed as assholes came from a certain country of origin, then they are just as fucked up as the assholes on the boat.
Thanks, Dodger. I hadn't thought of it that way too. Doesn't look like Ikarus has bothered to reply and correct what he said.


Rush... I did see your 1,500+ word fantasy where you described me as a pre-pubescent kid being abused by older men...
Actually what I said, Bitchy, was that you were a little ladyboy wannabe whose fondest desire in life is to move to Pattaya, get a job in Sunee, and find an old fat farang to love and service nightly.
Your 1,500+ word fantasy made it clear the subject was a pre-pubescent kid. It also described the kid being abused by old men from a local retirement home or something.

I think you're pretty much the second most disgusting thing on this board, after LMTU.

[ikarus]

scottish-guy wrote:


see no evidence of anti-semitic comments on SGT.



If Beachlovers account of what he witnessed was accurate, and I have no reason to believe that it's not, than those assholes from Israel were described just the way they should be described...as assholes. If someone doesn't like it because the guys who were being accurately decribed as assholes came from a certain country of origin, then they are just as fucked up as the assholes on the boat.
His stories are as truthful as your own Indiana Jones stories.

[Rush, Yet Again]

I think you're pretty . . .

Awwww, that's so sweet of you!

Sorry Bitchy, I didn't realize that post meant so much to you. So:

[attachment=0:3riq4t6k]beachlover diaries.JPG[/attachment:3riq4t6k]

Coming Soon To A Blog Near You!

[Dodger]

Ikarus wrote


His stories are as truthful as your own Indiana Jones stories

It wasn't the truthfulness of Beachlovers story that you were questioning - it was the manner in which he told his story which you mis-interpreted as being anti-semitic. Now that your remarks (mis-interpretaions) are being challeged you attempt to de-focus by reverting to insults. What a class act!