Kow pansa buddhist festival...any info?

[newalaan]

My bf announced to me today after we were discussing drinking and karaokes that he intends to abstain from alcohol for the next 2 months. I can't see that happening with regards to his willpower, but was surprised at his intention and also that I know so little about it. He said probably one reason I know so little is that he has never tried to acknowledge the 'no drinking' part of it before. Also it is the time of year I am not normally vsiting Thailand so wouldn't have experienced it.

It seems to be related to Buddhist monks retreating to their Wat for studying.

I know i can search around the internet but just wondering if anyone has actual experiences relating to "Kow Pansa". It should be something our long term expats would probably know about.

[cdnmatt]

Could be wrong, but I think your boyfriend is a little late. It started a couple weeks ago.

PS. Thailand has so many holidays, festivals, and special occasions, most Thais don't give a shit about them too much.

[Dodger]

A few years back I was attending a Loy Krathong fesival in me BF's village and was amazed at how many Thais were falling down drunk. When I asked him why they all get so drunk at these events he said that Loy Krathong, which always takes place in October or November depending on the position of the moon, was ocurring right after the Kow Pansa (Buddhist lent) period and every body needed a drink.

Kow Pansa evolved into a time when monks are not supposed to leave the wat. In addition, people are expected to abstain from harmful pleasures such as drinking alcohol, smoking, etc., and to visit the wat on certain days related to the moon. The Kow Pansa period lasts for 3 months and typically ends near the eve of the Loy Krathong festivities, thus the reason everyone gets so smashed during Loy Krathong.

Similar to youths in the West who are not the least bit interested in the antique rituals and superstitions embedded in Christianity - a lot of the Thai youths feel the same way about these old-fasioned Buddhist beliefs which are gradually falling by the wayside. The old timers still tend to follow the path, although the younger Thais (when out of eye sight of their family elders) will party their asses off regardless of where the moon is positioned.

One recommendation: Never visit the boys village during Kow Pansa because for one reason - it's rice planting time and everybody's working, and secondly, the elders are making sure that nobodies having fun. The best time to visit is during Loy Krathong when the party lasts all night.

[thonglor55]

It's popularly called the "Buddhist Lent (http://www.thaibuddhist.com/khaophansa.htm)" because one of the characteristics common at the most popular level between Christian Lent and Buddhist Lent is "giving something up". As cdnmatt remarked, it started a couple of weeks ago and was the occasion for ex-pats giving up going to the bars for a couple of days, to mark its beginning. Giving something up is made easier by its coinciding with the rainy season, so unless you've stocked up beforehand, all that rain makes it more difficult to go outside and get supplies. From the URL I gave here's the overview
Buddhist monks remain within the temple grounds and do not venture out for a period of three months starting from the first day of the waning moon of the eighth lunar month (in July) to the fifteenth day of the waxing moon of the eleventh lunar month (in October). In former times, this is done to prevent monks from trampling upon rice paddies when they venture out to receive offerings from the villagers.As you can see, the name incorporates the Thai word for rice ("khao") - one of the 200 Thai words I do know and even sometimes use.

[Bob]

As you can see, the name incorporates the Thai word for rice ("khao") - one of the 200 Thai words I do know and even sometimes use.

You might want to reduce that to 199? The "kao" in Wan Kao Phansa means generally "to enter into" and is spelled р╣Ар╕Вр╣Йр╕▓. The Thai word for rice is р╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕з. Both are pronounced the same (except the "rice" word is pronounced with a longer vowel) with a falling tone. Wan Kao Phansa literally means the day to enter the rainy season but is the celebration of the day the monkies begin their hibernation during Buddhist Lent.

[thonglor55]

As you can see, the name incorporates the Thai word for rice ("khao") - one of the 200 Thai words I do know and even sometimes use. You might want to reduce that to 199? The "kao" in Wan Kao Phansa means generally "to enter into" and is spelled р╣Ар╕Вр╣Йр╕▓. The Thai word for rice is р╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕з. Both are pronounced the same (except the "rice" word is pronounced with a longer vowel) with a falling tone. Wan Kao Phansa literally means the day to enter the rainy season but is the celebration of the day the monkies begin their hibernation during Buddhist Lent.I bow to your superior knowledge - I only know р╣Ар╕Вр╣Йр╕▓ (to enter into) in the context of a boy's anus.

[cdnmatt]

Ohhh, so this is actually probably why Kim is abstaining from karaoke for a month. And he was trying to pass it off as doing it to make me happy.

Little shit, trying to get an added bonus out of his sacrifice for Budhhist Lent.

[pong]

- it's rice planting time and everybody's working, and secondly, the elders are making sure that nobodies having fun. The best time to visit is during Loy Krathong when the party lasts all night.
should be quite the opposite-the Thai are very, very downtoearth practicle: the rice should have been planted and there is now time to grow-which needs no/hardly any work at all. hence they can take their best time to retreat as a monk in a monastery. As it is rainy season in nearly the whole country-in old times not the best of season to go travelling-no hard roads, floodings. I do not intend to nitpick at all-but I dfo like the facts to be right. Most ''ancient'' beliefs and economies are very, very intertwined-so practic knowledge gets the aura of a religion to follow. THis can be seen in how different the same Buddist religion gets practised in other countries like Sri lanka or Tibet.

Thailand has so many holidays, festivals, and special occasions, most Thais don't give a shit about them too much

It depends where you are in Thailand.. The thing that amazes me is not only the incredible complexity of Thai religion and culture, but the extent of religious observance amongst the population, even amongst seasoned sex workers.

I recall one regular bedmate who had vanished when I woke up one morning. Fearing that I had been robbed, I sprang out of bed to check that my wallet etc. were still locked away, and just as I had satisfied myself that all was in order, there was a knock on the door. 'Sorry - I had to go temple' - a little voice said..

..and then we got back into bed again...

[Beachlover]

Ohhh, so this is actually probably why Kim is abstaining from karaoke for a month. And he was trying to pass it off as doing it to make me happy.

Little shit, trying to get an added bonus out of his sacrifice for Budhhist Lent.
Matt, I think your cute little boyfriend needs to be punished... by you. :bootyshake: :happy7:

[Dodger]

pong wrote:


should be quite the opposite-the Thai are very, very downtoearth practicle: the rice should have been planted and there is now time to grow-which needs no/hardly any work at all. hence they can take their best time to retreat as a monk in a monastery. As it is rainy season in nearly the whole country-in old times not the best of season to go travelling-no hard roads, floodings. I do not intend to nitpick at all-but I dfo like the facts to be right. Most ''ancient'' beliefs and economies are very, very intertwined-so practic knowledge gets the aura of a religion to follow. THis can be seen in how different the same Buddist religion gets practised in other countries like Sri lanka or Tibet

Pong, I am also not trying to nit pik, but would like to state that the rice planting in Thailand typically starts in May during the end of the dry season and then extends into July with the second cyclic rice planting depending on the effects of climate change which has been driving the small farmers crazy for the past 5 or 6 years. Rice can only be planted and grown with plenty of rain and the extreme draughts in the middle of the dry season (bad for the soil), coupled with the unpredicable and unseasonable monsoons have created a real challenge for Thai farmers. For this reason, it has not been uncommon to see farmers standing knee deep in mud planting rice during this time of the year. Yes, I agree that they are indeed being particle...as mother nature would have it no other way.

Also, I'm not really sure what you were implying when you said that..."Most ''ancient'' beliefs and economies are very, very intertwined-so practic knowledge gets the aura of a religion to follow.

I guess what I was trying to say in my earlier post was that the elder Thais tend to adher to the old (ancient) Buddhist traditions including as the avoidance of drinking alcohal, smoking ,etc.,during Kow Pansa - but the majority of young Thais don't. We may simply be disagreeing with this point, but I've never witnessed a Thai youth following any these traditions unless they are under the watchful eye of grandma and gramps. The point I am making is not drawn from my observations of Thais on the working scene - but from the behaviors of the Thais in their natural settings. Hell, the working boys can't evan see the moon - let alone be concerned with its position...555.

[newalaan]

Thanks for all the replies, the what and why is clear to me now. Also the doubt i had/have regarding my bf's ability to stick to his non-alcohol intake for the next 2 months (so far)seems to be unfounded as it looks like he is serious. Anyone had their bf see a 3 month abstention of alcohol through all the way?

The thing that amazes me is not only the incredible complexity of Thai religion and culture, but the extent of religious observance amongst the population, even amongst seasoned sex workers.I agree on the complexity of the religion and culture but i'm not quite sure why you are surprised at the observance of sex workers. Being a sex worker has nothing whatsoever to do with their beliefs. It's only a job. Sure there are a great number of gay sex workers who use the cover of the work to engage in hedonistic lifestyles but i would consider the greater number to reflect what thais do generally. I'm sure the much greater proportion of working guys follow their beliefs very strongly, how many boys working in bars do you see with buddha strings on their wrist. Quite a number.
One recommendation: Never visit the boys village during Kow Pansa because for one reason - it's rice planting time and everybody's working, and secondly, the elders are making sure that nobodies having fun. The best time to visit is during Loy Krathong when the party lasts all night.From my own experience I wouldn't agree with this, it is also one of the reasons i wasn't aware of Kow pansa, because of virtually the opposite experience to Dodgers. I have been visiting there for over 4 years and I have never come across one single visit out of probably about more than a dozen where there has not been drinking. In the rice planting/harvesting seasons every night the work is finished 5-6pm the men working the fields drink beer/laokhao paid for by those whose land they were working on. This has happened on every occassion over the years i have been visiting. Never seen an 'elder' making sure there is no drinking, in my bfs village i guarantee that would be ignored.
PS. Thailand has so many holidays, festivals, and special occasions, most Thais don't give a shit about them too much.I think it's a cross between 'not giving a shit' and something to be used to their benefit. E.g. if they dont want to drink when others are pressuring them to then they just use the excuse of a festival, they pick and choose to suit their own requirements at any given time and just use the 'occassion' to cover it.........a bit like your amusing example with Kim.............
Ohhh so this is actually probably why Kim is abstaining from karaoke for a month. And he was trying to pass it off as doing it to make me happy. Little shit, trying to get added bonus out of his sacrifice for Budhhist LentThat's bright, although my bf didn't use it for me, i think he will use it when it suits him for deciding whether or not to go to karaoke depending who is asking, if he feels pressured he will blame/use Kow pansa i'm sure. You gotta give Kim credit for his ingenuity, it's brilliantly Thai that, getting full value out of a situation, haaa that makes him a clever little shit.
Could be wrong, but I think your boyfriend is a little late. It started a couple weeks ago.Not he wasn't late with the start, just late at letting me know. I found out by accident really when he was at the karaoke and I happened to ask what everyone was drinking that day and he announced he wasn't drinking alcohol......my surprise at this, turned to shock when he announced that this would be the case for the next two months. But we'll see, time will tell if he sticks to it.

Just shows how much there is still to learn about Thailand, an enjoyable journey(so far) nevertheless.

[Dodger]

Newalaan wrote:


From my own experience I wouldn't agree with this, it is also one of the reasons i wasn't aware of Kow pansa, because of virtually the opposite experience to Dodgers. I have been visiting there for over 4 years and I have never come across one single visit out of probably about more than a dozen where there has not been drinking. In the rice planting/harvesting seasons every night the work is finished 5-6pm the men working the fields drink beer/laokhao paid for by those whose land they were working on. This has happened on every occassion over the years i have been visiting. Never seen an 'elder' making sure there is no drinking, in my bfs village i guarantee that would be ignored.

For a Thai Buddhist - obstaining from consuming alcohal, smoking excessively, etc., are the basic tennents of Kow Pansa...so consider yourself lucky.

Apparently in your bf's village the traditional constraints on consuming alcohal during Kow Pansa are not adherred to. In my bf's village, the elders own the majority of farm land - are extremely dedicated to Buddhist precepts and traditions (and superstitions) and have a tremendous amount of influence in the village. Obstaining from drinking during the Kow Pansa period is just one of the indications of this influence. My bf's father does very frequent trips to town for supplies during this period.

Two different villages - two different sets of values towards the old traditions...perfectly understandable.

[newalaan]

Obstaining from drinking during the Kow Pansa period is just one of the indications of this influence. My bf's father does very frequent trips to town for supplies during this period.Meaning that your bf's father goes for supplies of alcohol? If so, does that mean he is one of the few or many who continues to drink despite the strict observance policy of the village elders?
For a Thai Buddhist - obstaining from consuming alcohal, smoking excessively, etc., are the basic tennents of Kow Pansa...so consider yourself lucky.And is one of the reasons i made the original post. Because in a dozen or so years of multiple visits I have yet to have one Thai tell me he has decided to abstain from drinking during Kow Pansa and that is exactly why I wanted to know just how common/normal in the experience of those here have found this to be.

Three months alcohol abstention for an individual who enjoys/is used to drinking the rest of the year must be quite challenging.


Two different villages - two different sets of values towards the old traditions...perfectly understandibleQuite. There are many things the village does value in terms of old traditions, one being the celebration of Loy Kathrong before the normal date, as it has been going back generations some hundreds of years, as old a tradition as you can have, yet not practised everywhere. Interesting also is that the farmland ownership is very different. My bfs village most of the farmland is family owned, it would seem the 'elders' at your bfs village have quite a significant influence on village life, i would be keen to know from the experiences of others if this and abstaining from alcohol during kow pansa are exceptions or the rule.

[Dodger]

newalaan,

In your opening post you were requesting information about Kow Pansa and stated that you knew very little about it - because you don't normally visit LOS during that period and hadn't experienced it. I thought the information I provided would have been appreciated by you.

Now, after providing you with a definition of what Kow Pansa is - you react by disagreeing with the definition, saying that your experiences are completely different from mine. Well, if you've never experienced Kow Pansa then I'd say that you are correct - as our experiences are in fact totally different.

Futhermore, if your bf doesn't have the will to stop drinking as you stated - then he may have a serious drinking problem which should concern you. This could also be the reason that his family back in the village can't stop drinking either - evan in observance of Kow Pansa.

Read your own comments below. Am I missing something?

newalaan wrote:


My bf announced to me today after we were discussing drinking and karaokes that he intends to abstain from alcohol for the next 2 months. I can't see that happening with regards to his willpower, but was surprised at his intention and also that I know so little about it. He said probably one reason I know so little is that he has never tried to acknowledge the 'no drinking' part of it before. Also it is the time of year I am not normally vsiting Thailand so wouldn't have experienced it.

newalaan,
Futhermore, if your bf doesn't have the will to stop drinking as you stated - then he may have a serious drinking problem which should concern you.

What with newalaan's ability to go off at the deep-end accusing all and sundry of anything and everything plus his boyfriends possible drinking problem they must make a very entertaining pair when together!

[newalaan]

they must make a very entertaining pair when together!Well, well Little Combat arrives to post yet another of his trademark off-topic, flooding, trouble-making posts. Nothing about Kow pansa, nothing about anything really, as usual! Do actually have anything remotely interesting either to post or in even in your life to post about Little Combat?

Dodger may have gone off on an irrational rant, which i will of course answer, but at least he posted something relevant to the subject and on-topic, a forum skill you have yet to embrace Little Combat.

[Smiles]

" ... I am also not trying to nit pik, but would like to state that the rice planting in Thailand typically starts in May during the end of the dry season and then extends into July with the second cyclic rice planting depending on the effects of climate change which has been driving the small farmers crazy for the past 5 or 6 years. Rice can only be planted and grown with plenty of rain and the extreme draughts in the middle of the dry season (bad for the soil), coupled with the unpredicable and unseasonable monsoons have created a real challenge for Thai farmers ... "
Dear Dodger, heavens that I would nitpick you, but in this instance I must to a certain extent.

Rice farming in Thailand is deeply (and obviously, economically) divided between the the farms in Central and South Thailand ~ generally in the Chao Praya River valley, it's water shed and numerous tributaries, and in the south due to a heavier yearly rainfall ~ and the huge rice farming areas in dry Isaan.
The former has water (generally in abundance) not only in the rainy season, but from the river and a vast irrigation infrastructure which can service the area in the dry season: this very rich agricultural area of Thailand can support 2 or 3 rice crops per year . . . thus planting times and dates have not the same timetable as you say above. A double or triple rice crop can be big business and good profit.
This is why, when driving north from Bangkok, one can view emerald-green rice paddies for as far as the eye can see, at most times of the year.

In Isaan ~ the latter ~ however, permanent irrigation is at a very low level and unless a farm is right up against a lake or a dam or a large river (and the farmer can afford to build an irrigation system for himself) the rice crop will be once a year only. Rice harvesting once a year is essentially subsistence farming, with a little left over to sell for a small profit ... if your lucky.
This is why, when driving through most areas in Isaan, one can view browned-over rices paddies from middle December through June.

(Aside. In my opinion only): if the Democrats under the now-gone Abhisit had of gotten their shit together ~ rather than 3 years of bickering ~ and put together a plan to provide real, honest, and effective irrigation to this area (very expensive, I don't doubt) he might well have gotten a much higher vote in the region, and might even have had at least a chance to win the election. Certainly it would have trumped the ineffectual 30 baht medical care scheme (now broke) and the blatant pay outs to village head men which Mr Thaksin cobbled together. But the dumbbell (Abhisit that is) insisted on ignoring Isaan throughout his PM-ship.

Thais in Isaan feel a huge inequality about this state of affairs (and rightly so) and it is a very major driver of social envy and jealousy between the two areas.

[Beachlover]

Well, well Little Combat arrives... Little Combat?... skill you have yet to embrace Little Combat.
Alaan... Did you miss having kids? Do you wish Combat was the son you never had? :rolling:

Well, well Little Combat arrives... Little Combat?... skill you have yet to embrace Little Combat.
Alaan... Did you miss having kids? Do you wish Combat was the son you never had? :rolling:

If 'newalaan' could have given birth through his mouth it would have been triplets.... :rolling: Don't worry though flower we all love you really :love4:

[thonglor55]

Dodger may have gone off on an irrational rant, which i will of course answer ...Because you can't help yourself?

[Beachlover]

Well, well Little Combat arrives... Little Combat?... skill you have yet to embrace Little Combat.
Alaan... Did you miss having kids? Do you wish Combat was the son you never had? :rolling:
If 'newalaan' could have given birth through his mouth it would have been triplets.... :rolling:
Seriously, I hope Newalaan doesn't address his boyfriend as "little Pong" (not his real name) too. Can you imagine how insane he'd go?

"NO NO little Pong you CAN'T have Johnnie Walker Black Label because I KNOW you're only want it as a status symbol over the next table! Wasteful! Don't lie to me about headaches, little Pong! Bad little Pong! What you CAN have little Pong is a nice HUMBLE dollop of red label. That's a good little Pong..." :rolling:

Seriously, I hope Newalaan doesn't address his boyfriend as "little Pong" (not his real name) too. Can you imagine how insane he'd go?


You know what they say about little things pleasing little minds? No doubt "little Pong" is brought and paid for anyway so being called 'little' isn't going to worry him as long as the money keeps coming in....

I find the name "little combat" rather charming considering spittle is probably covering "alaaaaaaans" monitor as he bangs away at his keyboard.