Meeting the boyfriend's mother

[RumpRanger]

Hi

I've been referred to this forum. I realise the story below is nothing new. I have done a search but couldn't find the information I need, so I'm asking for your comments.

A Singaporean friend of mine (45 years old) has found a Thaiboy and they have been boyfriends for 6 months. The Thai was a Bangkok go-go barboy when they met last December. The boy stopped working there and my friend Ben has been sending him money ever since then.

I had my heart broken by just such a barboy a few years back. Not wanting to hurt my friend's feelings, I refrained from being critical, but I shared with him my bad experience to serve as a cautionary tale. I have been lurking in this forum for a while now and so I also told him what I have read here, that there are instances where some barboys would do anything to cheat their customers. However, I did say that this does not necessarily refer to his case and that I was merely concerned. He took it well enough. He said that this is his last stab at happiness.

They seem loving (except for the usual expected lovers' quarrels) and Ben has been introduced to the boy's friends (also barboys) as a boyfriend. Nevertheless, there have been some suspicions - strange phone calls in Thai, the boy's reactions being sometimes shifty, discrepencies and minor lies about his activities etc. - but nothing with which I can come to a conclusion. Ben, as is quite normal, is blinded by love.

Last month, the boy brought Ben and me to meet his family, including his mother. The mother and the family seemed to accept Ben as the boyfriend, and she even talked about their marriage. In the villa we stayed at once, the boy was even spooning with Ben when she was staying in the same room (its a big one-room accomodation).

Late last night, Ben smsed me saying that he had his doubts at first, but that the stay with the boy's mother only showed that the boy truly loves him, and Ben has decided he wants to marry the boy. I am on the verge this morning of replying 'Congratulations, I am happy for you'. I really do wish they would end up marrying, but I worry for Ben. He is a good guy and he is very soft-hearted. I fear that he might not recover if his heart is broken.

I would appreciate any advice.

I would often LOVE to hear about two people falling in love and the family accepting it.... I really would. Just understand that meeting the family is like locking the falang into being the families financial support system. Marraige, the families dowrey or bank account and then its off to buy a house and then one day, possibly and possibly not, out the falang goes and the family looks for a new hook line and sinker once they have bled the fish dry.
I say congrads and the best of luck but think with his head and not the head of his penis! Keep his eyes open and dont do everything the family suggests because everyone loves him.
There are few sucess stories here, and there are some horror stories.

[arsenal]

And so it begins.....so many times before. I wish your friend well.
Offer gentle caution to to him, make no attempt at criticism of his boyfriend. Remember what your friend tells you, the half truths, the lies, the stories. Store it away. If, or when your friend is about to make a huge mistake then launch the entire arsenal (sorry) to try and save him from himself.
It's all you can do.

[Thai Dyed]

Leave your friend alone. He has already told you "this is his last stab at happiness." Leave it at that. Matt, who posts here has also found true love with a boy he found in a gogo bar.

And remember the immortal lines of Rilke: "At the crossroads of two heartways, there stands no temple for Apollo."

[allieb]

Head first after 6 months with an ex prostitite, ha ha. Your friends a fucking idiot. By the way the family are usually in on the whole scam. They don't care where the money comes from. If they can get a farang married to their lover boy then its all a bit more secure for them.

[cdnmatt]

Head first after 6 months with an ex prostitite, ha ha.

Why not? Happened to me. Actually, almost immediate for me. Walked into a go-go bar one night, and this young guy on stage wouldn't stop nodding at me, so I figured fine, come on over. Went back to the room, gave each other massages, then I kicked him out because I wanted to work, but I did get a hug from him while leaving. Next day I was off to Malaysia for a few weeks to spend time with my family, and while there, for some reason I always remembered that hug. Got back to Pattaya, and went looking for him, but he was nowhere to be found.

One night was out walking at about 5am, and this group of Thai guys stopped me. Sure enough, one of them was Kim. I didn't even recognize him at first. Off to karaoke we go, and Kim and myself end up sitting together on a couch holding hands. Don't know how or why, but I knew right then and there I was in for a long journey in life. At the time he couldn't speak a word of English, and I couldn't speak a word of Thai, but I still knew. Even cried a little while sitting there, and thinking, "man, I really hope I don't get hurt as badly as my first marriage this time around". Little over two years later, we're still here, and doing great.

I'm pretty sure I"m more of the exception than the norm, but nonetheless, it's very possible.

----------------------------------------------

As for your friend, congrats to him! 98% of Thai guys won't take a farang to the village to meet the family unless they're serious, so that's good. Well, either that or the entire family is filled with deceitful cunts, and the farang is in for a world of hurt. Not sure any advice I can give.

As the old saying goes, don't build or bring anything into Thailand that you're not willing to walk away from. This includes money in a Thai bank account. I don't keep any money in Thailand, and I know a couple people that keep theirs in their home country, then transfer to their Thai bank account every couple weeks. Nothing to really worry about, but always better safe than sorry.

If I had to redo things, the one thing I would have done differently is be more strict from the beginning. I wouldn't have just went with the flow, while thinking I'm learning a new culture, and brush off everything as "this is how it works in Thailand". For example, back in the day it'd cost about 5000 baht every time we went to see Kim's dad. Nowadays, I never get asked, but for a while it was "get fucked, I'm not paying money so you can see your dad. if he wants money, tell him to quit drinking whiskey, and get to work. here's 500 baht to buy some food and beer".

Nowadays, nobody in the family ever gets a single baht from me. I think a month ago we gave papa 200 baht for gas money to get home, but that's it. Don't just go with the flow because you're in a different culture. This is new for everyone involved, not just your friend, so there's no boundaries yet, and nobody knows where they'll be drawn. Like it or not, it's up to your friend to draw them. Oh, and why is he building a house? Up to him, but I wouldn't, as rent is unbelievably cheap here. For example, the purchase price of this house we're living in would be equivalent to about 28 years of rent payments (4500 baht/month). If he builds a house, make sure he's ready and willing to walk away from it, just in case.

As for that "last stab at happiness", I know what he means, and he'll probably be in for a shock. He's only six months in, so they're still in the "honeymoon" and euphoria stage, which will eventually dissipate. That's when the realization sets in, "i'm sharing my life with this young, poor, uneducated Thai guy from Issan, we don't have much in common, and we don't see eye-to-eye on much". Maybe a bit exaggerated, but that's the gist. It's not like Kim and myself can cuddle in bed, and chat about our lives, while planning our futures out because we both have the same goals, desires, and visions in life. Nope, nothing even close. Or for example, my work is a huge part of my life, but I can never talk to Kim about it, because he has absolutely no comprehension what I'm talking about.

Or for example, last night some family and friends were over, including papa. He hasn't exactly been a role model father, and he's also been causing some waves in the family recently, so I told Kim he should stand up to him, be firm, and tell him how things are. Apparently that gave Kim some strength, because after a few drinks the tears started flowing, and Kim just totally ripped into him for about 3 hours straight. Fuck honey, I told you to be firm with him, not go totally bezerk! Needless to say, papa went home this morning crying. Anyway, point is, while this was happening I was consoling Kim and thought to myself, "fuck sakes, you're only at this stage in life? so that means I have to wait 2 - 4 years before you're a fully matured and well adjusted individual?". Your friend can expect that type of thing.

Don't get me wrong though, it's great. We love each other, get on good, joke around lots, take care of each other, etc. Thailand is a great country as well, and I love the atmosphere and environment here. It's not the ideal life I would have chosen for myself, but when I weigh out the pros and cons, I realize I'm happy, I'm comfortable, I have people who love me, and I wouldn't change a thing. I went into this relationship looking for nothing but pure, unadulterated, unconditional love. And that's exactly what I got, so I can't complain.

Whew, long post. All the best to your friend and his partner!

[Dodger]

RumpRanger,

My bf is currenly serving time in prison for yaba which makes any comments I make a bit watered-down, although I will tell you that prior to his incarceration we were together for 6-1/2 years...first met the family during the second year of our relationship...got married in a traditional Thai marriage ceremony about 5 years into our relationship...and look forward to being together again when he gets released. He is an ex-working boy as well.

Some working boys stay on the scene because they enjoy the big money and have little desire to leave their work (and lifestyles) evan after they have met a willing farang sponsor. Some boys want nothing more than to meet a willing farang who can help them escape the scene. The first category describes the majority of boys, and the later category describes a smaller percentage of boys.

Personally, I think the talk about marriage after only knowing each other for 6 months is risky business as in all relationships, although this is a lesson your friend must learn for his self.

More concerning than your friend only knowing the boy for 6 months - is the reality that he needs to fully understand (if he doesn't already) that the role that a farang takes in a relationship with a much younger Thai partner is that of "sponsor." That doesn't mean that they can't have a loving and fulfilling relationship, it just means that your friend needs to understand the true meaning of sponsorahip as interpreted (embedded) in Thai culture. If your friend has a lot of experince in this area than he may be OK. But, If he does not, he's about to learn a hard lesson.

I think the best advice a friend could give would be to slow down and get to know the boy longer...much longer. Of course he will not heed this advice and will allow his emotions to guide him forward (or backwards), but at least you've done your part as his friend - and the rest is up to him. Hell, at 45 years old he'll recover if things fail - we see 75 year olds doing it all the time in Thailand.

[cdnmatt]

More concerning than your friend only knowing the boy for 6 months - is the reality that he needs to fully understand (if he doesn't already) that the role that a farang takes in a relationship with a much younger Thai partner is that of "sponsor." That doesn't mean that they can't have a loving and fulfilling relationship, it just means that your friend needs to understand the true meaning of sponsorahip as interpreted (embedded) in Thai culture. If your friend has a lot of experince in this area than he may be OK. But, If he does not, he's about to learn a hard lesson.

But how is that any different than a husband taking care of their wife? It's not. It's 100% exactly the same. Only difference is whether or not the farang is stupid enough to allow the family to act like a pack of vultures, and pick him clean. Obviously, this is assuming the guy actually loves you, and isn't just a gold digger. There's loads of female gold diggers in the West too though, so it's just a matter of finding the right person.

If anything, it's more of what you'd expect from a traditional marriage in the West a few decades ago. Bread winner and home carer living together, type of thing. At least that's how it is here. I work and pay the bills, and Kim takes care of the home, and through it, we make a good team in life. Can't think of it in purely financial terms. We take care of each other, are both better off for it, and that's what matters.

[RumpRanger]

Hi all,


Well, either that or the entire family is filled with deceitful cunts, and the farang is in for a world of hurt.


out the falang goes and the family looks for a new hook line and sinker once they have bled the fish dry.

I find this very disturbing. IтАЩve heard of this before of course, but when reality hits so close to home, I find it difficult to fathom, much less to face. How on earth do people manage to orchestrate this? Come to think of it, the boy did mention that Surin (yes, he is from Isaan) has lots of Farang-Thai couples. I suppose these serve as models to aspirants. He also said, quite proudly, that he and Ben would nevertheless be the first gay couple in his village. I couldnтАЩt help but laugh.


the true meaning of sponsorahip as interpreted (embedded) in Thai culture.

Is supporting the family what you mean by sponsorship Dodger? Ben has been giving some to the mother regularly, plus the occasional expenses and gifts. I am not too concerned for him regarding these expenses, unless they turn into тАШbleedingтАЩ later.

I have also been told that while there are many mixed marriages, the failure rate is alarming. But if what Matt says below is indeed correct, then I must say that in spite of everything, I am relieved and hopeful.


98% of Thai guys won't take a farang to the village to meet the family unless they're serious

Thanks for all your information, comments and advice, especially to Matt and Dodger for their sharing.

Immediately after posting this morning, I sent my message of congratulations and best wishes to Ben. On hindsight, I really should not have hesitated. As for what I should do about my concerns, I realise that there is no need to rush. I certainly have a lot to think about before I open my mouth.

[Marsha-old]

Have been with my boyfriend for ten years. Meet his mother after the first 6 months. My boyfriend use to send her 2000 baht a month home. This lasted for two years. She then wanted more, even though she stays with her Thai boyfriend as his father is dead. She also is a heavy drinker.
For the last eight years he has not sent one baht. He knows how she is getting on through his sister, but will not send good money to her just to go and buy whisky with it. This was his choice not mine.
When she stops drinking and grows old maybe he says he will then consider taking care of her.

[bucknaway]

If I met the right guy at a GoGo bar, would I be willing to make him my boyfriend? If only for a few weeks to a few months? I would have to say yes because you can't buy the feelings that come from the joy of being with the one you love. I would only hope that I would not get lost in those emotions.

[joe552]

I fell madly in love with a boy from a go-go bar on my first trip (surprise, surprise). 3 months later I maxed out my credit cards to go back and see him for 10 days. He eventually (a couple of years later) brought me to Isaan to meet his family and what a trip that was! The best holiday of my life. I am sure that bringing me to meet his family was a huge thing for him. We had a wonderful couple of weeks together, even though he had decided he didn't want to sleep with me any more, because he was really straight. Did I stop loving him because we weren't having sex? No. Was I happy that I paid for him to take his first ever airplane flight? Absolutely.

I can never repeat that experience, and don't want to - but I don't regret a moment of it (or the money I sent him when I could).

My best friend here in Ireland has cautioned me against Thailand, knowing how easily I fall in love. But I managed to have a great time on my last trip (in June) without making the mistake of falling for a sweet talking guy.

[Dodger]

cdMatt Wrote:


But how is that any different than a husband taking care of their wife? It's not. It's 100% exactly the same.

Matt, we're not talking about a husband taking care of his wife, we're talking about a the responsibility that most Thais have for caring for their parents. In the West most married couples focus their attentions on raising their children with little or no responsibility for providing financial support to their parents. In Thailand, the responsibility for a Thai to provide financial assistance to their parents is deeply engrained - regardless if a Thai couiples with another Thai or a farang. This is radically different than in the West. The fact that you consider this to be 100% exactly the same is a bit bewildering.

Also, you mentioned that you work and Kim takes care of the house. I'm assuming that this means that you work and Kim does not. This type of an arrangement is not evan considered the norm in the West unless there's young children at home who need to be cared for. If there's no children to care for (as in most gay relationships) both parties in the relationship typically work. If one of the partners simply stayed at home all day and lived off the money his partner was earning at work there's something wrong in Denmark.

[cdnmatt]

we're talking about a the responsibility that most Thais have for caring for their parents.

You're right. On the flip side, for example, take Kim's little sister and her husband. They're visiting right now, and a couple days ago I seen him counting about 30,000 baht in his hand, and I know he makes around 50,000/month, so they're hardly hurting for cash. Yet, in the past 3 months, Kim's sister has given their dad 1500 baht. Why would I be any different? Because I have white skin? Get fucked. I don't appreciate being looked at as some piece of dead meat vultures can prey on, everyone knows that now, and they've since backed off. That's what I meant by above, if I had a redo, I would have been far for strict from the beginning.

Yet, loads of farangs think they need to send 5000 or 10,000 back to mama every month, because "that's just how Thailand works", which isn't right at all. Don't get me wrong, if something major comes up and they need money, of course I'll help out. For the most part though, they can work, and make their own money. Mama lives here for free, so everything she makes is in her pocket, and papa can do die in a fire for all I care. Maybe throw them 1000 baht here and there as a present, but nothing like some farangs do.

You're right about the obligation to take care of the parents, but it doesn't need to include building a house, and sending 10,000 a month away. For example, if this was Canada, Kim would have totally disowned his dad and told him to fuck off a long time ago, but nonetheless, he still feels an obligation to help take care.


Also, you mentioned that you work and Kim takes care of the house. I'm assuming that this means that you work and Kim does not. This type of an arrangement is not evan considered the norm in the West unless there's young children at home who need to be cared for. If there's no children to care for (as in most gay relationships) both parties in the relationship typically work. If one of the partners simply stayed at home all day and lived off the money his partner was earning at work there's something wrong in Denmark.

No disrespect, but I don't think you're one to be criticizing gay thai-farang relationships. Your current BF is in prison, while you're fucking around with another guy on him. Enough said.

[Dodger]

Matt,

I see two potential failure modes here: One is a farang who does not understand the significance of the role of "sponsor" within the dynamics of his relationship with a Thai boy (or girl), and two, a farang who sells the ranch. Meaning, he gives more financial support than he can afford.

If a farangs finances were extremely limited and he himself was living on a tight budget - then the contributions to a boys family would be expected to be very limited. This would either be acceptable to the farangs bf or it would not be. If not, than these relationships usually fall apart after a while. In-any-case, I would think that these contributions to the family would not exceed a few thousand baht per month - as is the case with your bf's sister and her husband who appear to be financially secure.

Thais will take all you give them - commonly get spoiled - push the limits in an attempt to get more - and don't take offense to being told no. It sounds as if you've been taken down this road and now have things in proper order.

You Wrote:


No disrespect, but I don't think you're one to be criticizing gay thai-farang relationships. Your current BF is in prison, while you're fucking around with another guy on him.

I didn't intend to criticize anyone. I merely made an observation stemming from your remarks that you worked - and your bf stayed at home. Frankly, if my bf expected me to make any kind of financial donation to his family, regardless of how minimal this amount may be, he would have to get off his lazy ass, get a job, and help with the contribution. The house we built for us and the familiy several years ago was a joint effort and came from money we both earned and saved for this purpose and I have not provided any contributions to his family during his incarceration whatsoever. My contributions go towards keeping him fed and that's that. As far as the boy I'm spending time with during his incarceration - that seems very natural to me - and I doubt that Thep would argue the point.

[Beachlover]

Don't get me wrong, if something major comes up and they need money, of course I'll help out. For the most part though, they can work, and make their own money.
Matt, I think that is where you are the most value to your boyfriend's family. You're kind of like an insurance policy that kicks in if disaster or turmoil strikes.

Poorer Asian families are vulnerable to disasters like accidents, illness, legal issues and such because they don't have deep pockets or a welfare safety net. It doesn't take much to wipe them out. A single incident can wipe out the family's savings and leave them unable to pay for education and other essential big ticket expenses. An accident or illness might put them in a position where they can't afford the hospital bills to treat a family member. This is where you come in... as a last resort.

While the immediate "hand outs" are probably what they eye most (being short term minded), it's the peace of mind of this "insurance policy" your relationship offers, which is most valuable to them. In addition to this, they know that if there is a situation where a rare opportunity arises (e.g. a kid is gifted or wants to go to university) but can't be taken due to lack of finances, you might helping out if you see it as a worthy pursuit.


Thais will take all you give them - commonly get spoiled - push the limits in an attempt to get more - and don't take offense to being told no.
That's true but not with all Thais and Asians in general. It's only true for those with no shame (i.e. thick skinned), often the poorer ones. Others have a grasp on the concept of what is appropriate and fair and won't want to take more, even if you offer it to them.

[Beachlover]

He said that this is his last stab at happiness... I worry for Ben. He is a good guy and he is very soft-hearted. I fear that he might not recover if his heart is broken.
I think he should keep his expectations flexible and adaptable. Don't become attached to the point where he can't look at the situation objectively.

I also think the "last stab at happiness" mindset is foolish... Come on, he's 45, Asian and probably has a decent income in Singapore. Good looking or not, he's still got plenty of opportunity to find a nice partner if this doesn't work out.

If this one doesn't work out and he is seeking genuine love again, he should look outside the bar/moneyboy scene and perhaps consider older guys. If he wants someone younger than himself, I'm sure there's plenty of Thai guys in their 30s or early 40s looking for long-term love.

In my limited experience, I'm finding guys in their 30s and older are more inclined to want something meaningful and with potential settle down. Where as guys in their 20s, like myself are more transient and less keen to be tied down. This is generalising heavily and there are many exceptions. But when you get a guy in his 20s and a guy in their 30s getting together the differing mindset can be a common conflict. I'm guessing it can be the same when a 45 year old and a 22 year old get together.

...

If this one doesn't work out and he is seeking genuine love again, he should look outside the bar/moneyboy scene and perhaps consider older guys. If he wants someone younger than himself, I'm sure there's plenty of Thai guys in their 30s or early 40s looking for long-term love.....

Beachy, I dare say you mean well - but just have a think will you - if the guy likes bar-boy-age people he is hardly likely to start dating a 40yo is he?

:rolling:

[cameroncat]

The guy is 45 years old and thinks this is his "last stab at happiness"? What does that say about the rest of us? LOL. If I was 45 again, I'd be happy as a Clam! :rolling:

[gra46]

You can take the boy from the bar but you can never take the bar from the boy .
I must admit i learnt the hard way .I dont really care what you all say but where there money involved
the thai boy laughing

You can take the boy from the bar but you can never take the bar from the boy .
I must admit i learnt the hard way .I dont really care what you all say but where there money involved
the thai boy laughing


I think that statement may give you a warm glow following your bad experience/s, but it's is a bit of a counsel of despair really.
If society as a whole took that view, then, for example, we would educate only those who were rich and white - as the rest would be deemed "unsaveable".
It's up to you of course - but you can carry on (apparently) being a bitter miserabilist, or you could try smiling, seeing the bright side of things, and being a tad less cynical.

:occasion9:

[gra46]

You can take the boy from the bar but you can never take the bar from the boy .
I must admit i learnt the hard way .I dont really care what you all say but where there money involved
the thai boy laughing


I think that statement may give you a warm glow following your bad experience/s, but it's is a bit of a counsel of despair really.
If society as a whole took that view, then, for example, we would educate only those who were rich and white - as the rest would be deemed "unsaveable".
It's up to you of course - but you can carry on (apparently) being a bitter miserabilist, or you could try smiling, seeing the bright side of things, and being a tad less cynical.

:occasion9:
I should of stated the Thai gogo boy laughing
now my bank account rising and my prick still is in thailand with a big smile

[Dodger]

Gra46 wrote:

You can take the boy from the bar but you can never take the bar from the boy

Many, if not most of the bar boys, leave the bar scene eventually because they are either tired of providing this type of service, did not earn enough on the scene to make ends meets, wanted to marry and start a family, met a boyfriend (Thai or farang) who provided better life options, or simply wanted to return home.

Conversely, those who stay glued to the scene are either content providing this type of service for their living, earn enough to at least keep the candle burning, don't have any desire to marry or become attached, or don't have a home that they see as being worth returning to.

I have known many boys who have left the bar scene never to return again, and usually when I hear a farang make a comment like yours above Gra46 it's coming from a farang who's still sitting in the bar.

Gra46 - we all make mistakes - and I agree that there are some boys that would bleed you dry if you let them.

But they're not all like that.

Better luck next time.

:love4:

[gra46]

Gra46 - we all make mistakes - and I agree that there are some boys that would bleed you dry if you let them.

But they're not all like that.

Better luck next time.

:love4:
Yes i have met a nice guy who never worked a bar,i been seeing him on my last 4 visits ,i do agree not all are the same in the bars
I know this boy i was with for the 2 years was forced back to the bar by his family to provide for them.
And Dodger when i was with him i never sat at the bar i was at his home in northern thailand where there no gay bars ok .
Now yes i find it to never get to serious with a thai straight away ,im here to enjoy my life to the fulliest

[bao-bao]

Conversely, those who stay glued to the scene are either content providing this type of service for their living, earn enough to at least keep the candle burning, don't have any desire to marry or become attached, or don't have a home that they see as being worth returning to.
Two other reasons I'd add to yours above: (1) they've become "Westernized" - by peers or whatever - and feel compelled to have new phones and other extravagances and (2)there's always the looming specter of addiction(s); yaba, alcohol and some behaviors, like partying and chasing those same baubles, bangles and beads... like phones, clothes, etc.

Just my opinion, based on observations, hearing guy's stories and reading stories from others.

[Beachlover]

If this one doesn't work out and he is seeking genuine love again, he should look outside the bar/moneyboy scene and perhaps consider older guys. If he wants someone younger than himself, I'm sure there's plenty of Thai guys in their 30s or early 40s looking for long-term love.....
Beachy, I dare say you mean well - but just have a think will you - if the guy likes bar-boy-age people he is hardly likely to start dating a 40yo is he? :rolling:
Ok, but come on... if he's 45 surely he should have no problem being with a 30 or 35 year old.

I'm in my twenties and even I would have no issue going out with a good looking 30 year old.

But if you're right and if he absolutely must be with a 20 year old boy half his age then he's getting no sympathy from me for not being able to find love!

[the1]

I'm in my twenties

:rolling:

[dab69]

I'm in my twenties

:rolling:


Being on TV adds 5 pounds
Being on the internet subtracts 10 years
or more

[Dodger]

dab69 wrote:


Being on TV adds 5 pounds
Being on the internet subtracts 10 years
or more

555...Oh so true!!!

I have met some guys (forum members) who appear as if they have subtracted as much as 30 years.

I, of course, am still 28.