POLL: Females in gay go-go clubs [Archive] - Sawatdee Gay Thailand the oldest and most popular gay forum on Thailand and South East Asia

adman5000

July 3rd, 2011, 08:01

Am I uncomfortable? No
Am I resentful? Yes - I want the handsome buggers for myself.

I was once in a bar in Pattaya enjoying a drink and the dancing of the boys, when a young Thai woman strode in with her boyfriend and a handful of cash, never sat down for a drink, and proceeded to pick the two best looking guys off the stage for a quick exit. Another night, several women came in and decided they were the only ones of any importance and proceedly to loudly scream and laugh and yell at the bar people for this or that.
I prefer the atmosphere of people who sit back and quietly enjoy the show and respect other customers. I don't care if they are men or women. I also feel that if they gay crowds are as small as they have been during my visits over the last couple of years, I support allowing whatever it takes to keep the bars in business to continue to offer what they do.

newalaan

July 3rd, 2011, 08:16

I think the guys who don't like to see women in the gay gogo bars have a bias against white women and would not feel uncomfortable if the woman in the bar was Asian.I would agree with these sentiments. The white cows seem to have attitude problems which i am not comfortable with in the bars and agogos as well as absolutely no sense of fun of the occassion in the same way the asian or Thai females have.

Never found myself in competition with the asian ladies anyway, as they prefer the str8 laddies and I prefer the gay or gay femme laddies. Anyway....so many available boys in the bars and karaokes the asian female customers are more a help to the gay bars and some of the boys who work them than a problem. My opinion only.

July 3rd, 2011, 09:11

Trust me. I would rather have a go go bar with only gay men if it were possibe at this stage of the game, but drink prices would have to sky rocket, shows cut, staff cut, ammenities cut and so forth.
While I don't insinuate that I know everything or even anything, I believe that this current course is best for the majority. Those that disagree are certainly able to purchase a bar and try it their own way and see if it works. There are plenty of bars for sale one could make an offer and knowing the desperation of some, I am sure that almost anything would be accepted. The proof is in the monthly clossure of bars in both previously thriving areas.

bigben

July 3rd, 2011, 09:36

Me personally.....Once a woman walks in a Thailand Go Go bar, no matter if she is white or purple, I am out of there in a New York Minute.

I don't mind socializing with women, but I don't want them in the saunas/toilets/Go Go bars or my bed.

Guess it's a man thing. :dontknow:

Blueskytoday

July 3rd, 2011, 13:03

I see I am in the Minority here.
Yes I am uncomfortable when straight women ,,many with their husbands
come into a go go bar or a sex show..

It IS a gay bar,,,It is...I go there to be around other gays and enjoy the boys.

I don't want to see embarrassed men or giggling women about the bar. The straight men
certainly do not want to be there at all...
That is just me..

MARK

July 3rd, 2011, 16:02

[attachment=1:rwamo128]20009-07-03 178.jpg[/attachment:rwamo128][attachment=2:rwamo128]SNC13713.JPG[/attachment:rwamo128]

SHOULD GAYS BE ALLOWED ON WORKING STREET :sign3:

Live and let Live :bis:

newalaan

July 3rd, 2011, 16:03

I see I am in the Minority here. Yes I am uncomfortable when straight women ,,many with their husbandsI personally have found over the years a huge distinction between asian females and western/white females or where one of the 'partnership' is western..eg thai girl and farang bf. I am very uncomfortable with any female westerners in a 'gay' bar setting, although to asian females they are simply 'boy bars' for any sex to take off and flirt with the boys and not exclusively for gays.

I have been in bars where western couples, especially russians, have come in and found them to do nothing but look around at the other customers, have seen thai girls with their frang bfs and the guy not enjoying his visit again looking around at the other customers, also the lone white females or or pairs I find to have a sneering attitute as they smirk at the gay customers......all for me highly offensive.

However, my experience over the years with thai females and other asian females such as japanese or korean can help in terms of both providing good extra tips for the thai guys and business for the bar while not creating any great problem when they are there. They often get the guys on stage 'going' and can add a great deal of fun in the bar. Also their asian/thai attitudes towards gays are totally neutral unlike western/white females who give out very condescending vibes . the asians just get on with having a good time only concerned with which boy they fancy. Again I have never felt in competition with them as I am not into str8 guys, if any guy shows real interest in a female customer before a male one then that guy is NEVER going to be any good to me whether there are females in the bar or not.

I know that not everybody has the same taste in guys, but even if some thai guys do go for the female rather than the gay guy, there is still a vast choice and availability of guys long after the females have picked their guy and gone on their way. Also I have experienced over the years that asian females are very comfortable amongst gay guys, and carry none of the western attitude baggage of their western/russian counterparts and so can be quite sociable if sitting next to/near them.

You don't see very many females round the sunee bars now do you? I don't recall ever seeing a female in Happy Boys, Nice Boys, MicMy etc. Krazy dragon is the only place I have seen females, and there only asian/thai.

There were asian females in Happy Place on my last visit and their fun attitude and giggles added to the atmosphere and to be honest none of the guys on stage played to them, we received more looks and interest from the guys in the bar than any of the females did. We were sitting next to them and they happily chatted with my bf who is not of a 'manly' disposition and myself with a few chinking of glasses. They were thai just out on the town for fun and said if they found a suitable 'escort' for the night would take him off to a karaoke or short time room.

Again this is just my experience over the years of bars in Bangkok and Pattaya.

MARK

July 3rd, 2011, 16:18

newalaan

July 3rd, 2011, 16:39

I do not get this at all nobody has a problem with 2 gay guys offing a couple of boys for a party but a swinger couple should not be allowed in a gay bar to pick up a couple of boys for a good time?. Mark, If it is a western/white couple without a sneering attitude and have decent manners regarding staring at others then fine, but in MY experience of western/white farang/russian couples that is not the case. asians no problem whatsoever.

cdnmatt

July 3rd, 2011, 16:47

Mark, If it is a western/white couple without a sneering attitude and have decent manners regarding staring at others then fine, but in MY experience of western/white farang/russian couples that is not the case. asians no problem whatsoever.

Then look at them with an evil grin, just before you shove your tongue down the 19 year olds throat who you're sitting beside. Fuck 'em, don't worry about them too much. If they want to be shocked / disgusted, up to them.

July 3rd, 2011, 16:53

I tend to disagree just a little.
I find Western women as well as Asians have no problems. NOW, that said, the Russians, Indians and Arabs are a VERY different story and we refuse admitancde to the majority.

stevehadders

July 3rd, 2011, 17:17

Last time I was in Pattaya - April - I saw a woman in both Copa and Happy Place. Have to say it didn't bother me. I guess, like many others, would prefer a man only environment but fully understand that at the moment this is not practical - so very greatful for the support so I can continue to enjoy some of the great bars we have in Pattaya.

neoncrusade

July 3rd, 2011, 18:31

Reading some of these remarks about 'good manners' in bars it almost seems that the manners of 'single white gay males' are considered beyond reproach. I was in Funny Boy in Boys Town about 6 months ago, it was pretty busy and a guy about 65 came in, sat near me and within 2 minutes had a boy brought off the stage to sit next to him. Fine so far...then before the boy's drink had arrived, the guy pulled the boy's dick out lent over and started licking it. The boy, who initially was happy and bouncy became very quiet and was obviously unhappy (if the falang could have seen his face he would have stopped right then). The other boys on stage who had been chatty and smiley, also went quiet and looked equally unhappy and probably embarrassed for their friend. In some bars in Sunee it seems playing with the boys dick is almost expected, which is why I don't go to them because I find it embarrassing. Why is it when some guys go to these bars they have to act like they've never seen a dick before? The Thai boys that work these bars should get and deserve more respect from EVERYONE that goes in the bars. Women in bars aren't a bother, they can be good fun to talk to. They don't bite...

stevehadders

July 3rd, 2011, 18:36

Wow...I can just imagine the entire bar going silent - this just isn't " Funny Boys" behaviour - think I would have been shocked also! Sunnee plaza you expect it, but not in BT

MARK

July 3rd, 2011, 19:01

Well i agree there are always going to people that go to far in a bar and have to be told behave or get out or should be I believe most customers taking off a guy for the night like to see the goods before that get home. :headbang:

To small :rolling:
To big :crybaby:
Plastic :happy7:
and god for bid drippy :protest:

Thor69

July 3rd, 2011, 22:27

In this economy it would be foolish for any bar not to allow women into their bars. The added income will certainly help. However, as a general rule the asian women are better behaved than their western counterparts. If a customer gets out of hand, the bar owner or manager can certainly step in and make things more pleasant.

In a perfect world, the bars would be men only but in these times we all must change and learn to live and let live. :glasses7:

cdnmatt

July 3rd, 2011, 23:04

Why is it when some guys go to these bars they have to act like they've never seen a dick before? The Thai boys that work these bars should get and deserve more respect from EVERYONE that goes in the bars.

Some of the guys in Pattaya are total jackasses. I'll never forget one guy. I was having a quiet drink, chatting away with whoever, and there was this other loud, obnoxious prick in the bar. Standing up, obviously drunk, and loudly proclaimed / yelled, "I'M NOT HERE FOR SEX! I WANT A MASSAGE! IF I TAKE A BOY, AND WANT A MASSAGE, I GET A MASSAGE! IF I WANT SEX, I GET SEX. YOU GOT ME!?!?!?".

Loads of the boys lined up to give him "test messages" too, because well, obviously they needed the money. Some boy would give him a quick shoulder massage, and if he didn't like it, he'd literally turn around and push the boy away in disgust.

I hope he got drugged and robbed that night.

Jason1988

July 3rd, 2011, 23:23

in Sunee it seems playing with the boys dick is almost expected, which is why I don't go to them because I find it embarrassing. Why is it when some guys go to these bars they have to act like they've never seen a dick before? The Thai boys that work these bars should get and deserve more respect from EVERYONE that goes in the bars.

There is a time and a place for everything! When I see that type of disrespectful behavior it is an immediate turn off. If you're in that much need of physical contact then take a boy off to your hotel or home. Many of us are not interested in seeing your technique!
:laughing3:

TravellerDave

July 4th, 2011, 00:45

I have no objection to women in gay bars / gogo's provided they behave in a reasonable manner and dont make fun of me or the other gay customers. I recall being in BT (Wild West Boys) and was sat with my arm round a boy I had bought a drink for, when in came a group of Russians. They commenced staring at me and sniggering which mde me very uncomfortable. Other than this incident I dont recall over seeing farang women in the bars and certainly not in Sunee, which is of course rather off the beaten track.
Also I rather resent encroachments by females in the Dongtan Gay area. I think sometimes they do not appreciate where they are as there is a gradual merging of the gay section with that favoured by str visitors.

Brad the Impala

July 4th, 2011, 01:32

I have an objection to some obnoxious gay men in bars, it doesn't mean that I want all gay men banned. A dickhead is a dickhead, and they can be gay, straight, male, female, and all the inbetweens. No need to characterise a whole sex or race or sexual orientation by the actions of a few.

July 6th, 2011, 10:48

What we call "gay-bars" are actually presented as Boy bars. In the time that I frequented the boy bars, looking for a nice and friendly playmate, I was mostly attracted to the boyish male acting gay guys, but they're not easy to determine........until one or more women arrived; 6 out of 10 boys on stage could be skipped out as a possible ST/LT partner.

Ladies.......thanks!!

Actually, I was always a bit amused when a busload of Japanese female university-students arrived in T&S, with a guide in front. Sitting down, giggling like females do in that age, order a drink and consume it, almost simultaneously, and leave on command after 15-20 minutes. :headbang:

danny99

July 6th, 2011, 14:33

it really doesn't mattter, who actualy sits in a bar and looks at the customers? when i am in a go-go bar, i am looking at the boys on the stage, isn't that the idea?

Problem is that if you like the real boys they will jump at the chance of going with a woman [and even being paid for it], not all will go with women of course, just the ones I usually fancy. Have seen at the old Top Man, Soi 2 Silom, and Adam's Apple in Chiang Mai, well known Thai women arrive and take home 4-6 boys for a party, to entertain their friends...have never seen tourist women and if they were there it would probably be for the wrong reasons, with no intention of taking out, and that would give off hostile vibes, which would be uncomfortable for all except the bar owner.

July 6th, 2011, 15:06

...real boys.. will jump at the chance of going with a woman...

That's why I go for those blow-up artificial boys - far less expensive, no argument about what they will or won't do, and when your finished with them - just empty them out and keep' em under the bed.

:tongue3:

PS I have seen tourist women In Funny Boys more than once - and even an occasion when it was a fairly elderly English couple and the husband was helping to pick out a boy to service the wife!!
You really do see everything in Pattaya.
:rolling:

July 6th, 2011, 15:28

The poll I saw so far on this board is almost split 50/50 with a few more saying "comfortable". So how would an owner interrupt this if using the poll to make a decision? (not that an owner might)

Would they think that the majority voted "comfortable" so allowing women is no problem. Or would they think that those that feel "comfortable" would probably still attend if there we NO women where those that voted "not comfortable" would be more likely not to, therefore the owner probably loosing money? Or would the number of women offset the possible lost revenue?

Does not matter...............

July 6th, 2011, 19:03

You ask what would a bar owner think of this poll.
I need to say that what I am doing right now seems to work. I am paying the bills and making a small profit. By what mark said, sounds like the same at his bar. I need to ask myself, will the 50% that voted that they were "uncomfortable" in a gay bar flock to my bar in numbers if I were to change my policy and only allow men in? Are these 50% even in Thailand and if not, how often do they visit? What is their disposable income that they spend on GO GO BARS and with drinks and offing the boys? Maybe they dont even live in Pattaya. Maybe they dont like go go bars or maybe they only meant that they would not like women in those type bars that allow groping and fondling in the open as well as jerking off and sex. SHIT! I would feel uncomfortable playing with a boy in the open with a woman sitting near me!
No, I am sorry to say that this poll, if more directed to customers roaming the streets of Boyztown area or even customers that came through my doors, then it would have an impact on my decision making.
:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:

July 6th, 2011, 21:57

July 7th, 2011, 00:14

Easy choice! If I enter a go go and see a woman I won't stay, if I have a drink and one comes in I just slowly finish my drink and leave.

July 7th, 2011, 00:29

Easy choice! If I enter a go go and see a woman I won't stay, if I have a drink and one comes in I just slowly finish my drink and leave.
See there is my predicament.
First, there have never been any women in our bar when you came before.
Second, while I really do appreciate your comfort and understand where you are coming from, you have visited our bar exactly twice in the last 53 weeks.
I hope when you come again next time that there are still no women in the bar so that you do not feel uncomfortable.
Yours truly,

bao-bao

July 7th, 2011, 02:22

Easy choice! If I enter a go go and see a woman I won't stay, if I have a drink and one comes in I just slowly finish my drink and leave.
In fairness I should explain my "I'm uncomfortable" vote, since I started this. Thanks to others who have also explained their points.

It depends on the situation for me. If they're there just to watch the scenery onstage it doesn't usually bother me. If they (or their usually uncomfortable acting boyfriends or husbands) choose to gawk, scowl or make rude comments or gestures in my direction then I, too, finish my drink, settle the check bin and quietly leave. I don't usually like to call for the manager or ask for someone to step in and speak logic to them, so I just go where I feel welcome. Boisterous drunks of any stripe usually end my visit, too. I'd only return if there was some compelling reason to do so.

By the way - this poll was NOT started about justme's club; I'm aware there are other gay-oriented clubs in Thailand that welcome anyone, and that's certainly their right. It's unfortunate if times are lean for them lately - it's low season, after all - and I don't wish ill will on any of them, but if there aren't enough customers to support all of them in any given area I suppose the law of supply and demand will undoubtedly sort things out.

July 7th, 2011, 05:24

I have 2 assistant managers and 1 manager that are within the club at all times even though it is such as small club. It is not only to watch the boys and make sure they are dancing but to make sure that the cashiier is doing his job, the bartender, the doormen and yes, to watch those customers inside and make sure they are having the BEST TIME POSSIBLE in a Pattaya Go Go Club!
:hello1:

Rush, Yet Again

July 7th, 2011, 09:58

And then sometimes a woman in a gay gogo bar can be amusing:

http://bangkokbois.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... -mackerel/ (http://bangkokbois.wordpress.com/2011/03/30/i-fell-iin-love-with-a-bar-boy-holy-mackerel/)

neoncrusade

July 7th, 2011, 15:47

An interesting fishy article. Love the picture of the old girl in pink trousers and sneakers....doesn't she work in Boyz Town somewhere? :evil4:
Anyhow, I've had plenty of conversations with Thai guys over the years who either work in the bars or have friends that do, about the bar boys' preferences. The upshot seems to be that the boys treat what they do as a job, and the more money they can earn for the least amount of work done is the goal. I keep getting told that old male falangs are a favourite for the boys because they tend to be easier to please and they usually tip more generously; tourists especially, expats they tell me are more 'sticky shit' (hope he was talking money there..). Although most boys are bi/straight, they have to work harder with women who off them because they are expected to do more. One Thai friend told me how his bar boy friend was offed by three women. He had to do all three off them in a king sized bed at the same time, and while he was f**king one of them, one of the other girls had a strap on dick and was f**king him, and that was repeated three times. He apparently got no bigger tip from them than if the guy had gone off with a nice old male falang.
I wonder whether old falangs are still as easy to please if they have little blue pills on them...maybe another poll to find out how many board members actually use 'em?

July 7th, 2011, 15:58

I doubt this boy was not telling you a tall tale, as they so often do, because hte tip that is always requested of the boy is PER CUSTOMER. Therefore, three customers for one boy was supposed to be 3 tips. Now of course, if the boy was desperate and was excited or thought it was going to be easy d=so he went ahead and gave them a deal, as some desperate boys might do......

July 7th, 2011, 18:45

Imagine having to fuck 3 women <vomit>

"Desperate" isn't the word.

:rolling:

lonelywombat

July 7th, 2011, 19:04

Imagine having to fuck 3 women <vomit>

"Desperate" isn't the word.

it could be worse --- a hairy ars old git in a kilt. scary.

July 7th, 2011, 19:52

neoncrusade

July 7th, 2011, 20:15

July 7th, 2011, 20:16

neoncrusade

July 7th, 2011, 21:42

My best friend in Pattaya for a dozen years was a Scots guy. He wore his kilt a few times because the boys there wanted to see it. The boys absolutely loved him, as did I. Pattaya isn't half so much fun now he's gone.

Was he in the habit of wearing a paper-bag over his head too?

LOL...No he never had to....but I've always had a soft spot for the Scots...My first bf when I was at school was a Scots boy.....strange for an English guy to say but I love the Scots! I'm sure the Scot's guy with the paper bag is all soft and gooey underneath!

July 7th, 2011, 21:50

My vote against woman in a gay go go was directed at any gay go go! Oh, one correction in 53 weeks I've been in your bar 1 time and there were no woman there.
I apologize. You made 2 different posts about the bar and neither one mentioned anything about women being in the bar. I was using your post as an example as I happened to recall who you were. Sorry if I offended you.
:love4:

July 7th, 2011, 23:27

I'm sure the Scot's guy with the paper bag is all soft and gooey underneath!

You said that, I didn't!

bao-bao

July 12th, 2011, 02:05

The poll is set to close on the 12th, I believe - and it's been quiet for a while, anyway - so it looks like it'll end up being fairly evenly divided with 48% being uncomfortable and 45% not caring if women are in go-go clubs when they're there.

Thanks for participating - especially to those who also went on to add why they voted as they did.

netrix

July 12th, 2011, 12:22

i go out all the time in the states and the gay bars are filled with women
just out to have a good time. of course they all love gay guys. i don't
think i would even notice if a woman was in a gogo bar unless she was
trying to off the guy i was interested in. :tongue3:

bao-bao

July 12th, 2011, 21:37

i go out all the time in the states and the gay bars are filled with women
just out to have a good time. of course they all love gay guys.
Very good point, and I'd agree that what are sometimes affectionately called "fag hags" or "fruit flies" are OK in many instances, but they're somewhat a different story: they're not there to judge or laugh at people and not usually there to compete for the attention of the guys. It's a debatable point, though, I agree. I'd add the difference that in the US the dancers (if any) aren't available for hire, so to speak.

Khor tose

July 12th, 2011, 21:59

LOL...No he never had to....but I've always had a soft spot for the Scots...My first bf when I was at school was a Scots boy.....strange for an English guy to say but I love the Scots! I'm sure the Scot's guy with the paper bag is all soft and gooey underneath!

Don't mind women anywhere except in my bed. Never slept with a Scot. I don't know if I missed anything or not. However, the only Whiskey I will drink is Scotch. However, I do wonder why they spell the word Whiskey wrong. :dontknow:

July 12th, 2011, 22:03

We don't.

:hello1:

Beachlover

July 14th, 2011, 22:34

I have no issue with farang women in gay gogo bars. In fact, I enjoy their reactions and seeing them get all shy and embarrassed when the cocks come out or some hunky Thai boy tries to charm them.

But then I'm not the primary target audience for gay gogo bars, which is older gay men... I just go in there to watch a show, have a drink and gawk a little.

I saw an Aussie woman get on stage and dance with the boys once. It was hilarious, this grinning white-skinned woman dancing with all these bewildered brown-skinned boys. The bar was pretty dull and empty so she did a good job spicing things up. I gave her a tip.

Mark, If it is a western/white couple without a sneering attitude and have decent manners regarding staring at others then fine, but in MY experience of western/white farang/russian couples that is not the case. asians no problem whatsoever.
Then look at them with an evil grin, just before you shove your tongue down the 19 year olds throat who you're sitting beside. Fuck 'em, don't worry about them too much. If they want to be shocked / disgusted, up to them.
Totally agree!

Don't be a weak Nelly. They're on YOUR turf. If they give you condescending looks, give them a nice fuck off look and get on with enjoying yourself.

Some of the guys in Pattaya are total jackasses. I'll never forget one guy. I was having a quiet drink, chatting away with whoever, and there was this other loud, obnoxious prick in the bar. Standing up, obviously drunk, and loudly proclaimed / yelled, "I'M NOT HERE FOR SEX! I WANT A MASSAGE! IF I TAKE A BOY, AND WANT A MASSAGE, I GET A MASSAGE! IF I WANT SEX, I GET SEX. YOU GOT ME!?!?!?".
The problem is Thailand (and especially Pattaya) is full of these Western men who think all Asians are poor and needy and will be submissive to them. These dickheads love having all these subservient Asians around to serve them so much it goes to their head... fucksticks.

I have an objection to some obnoxious gay men in bars, it doesn't mean that I want all gay men banned. A dickhead is a dickhead, and they can be gay, straight, male, female, and all the inbetweens...
Totally agree... Sensible comment.

July 14th, 2011, 23:08

Can't see the problem, they let newalaan in so what's the difference....... :occasion9:

bao-bao

July 14th, 2011, 23:34

I have no issue with farang women in gay gogo bars. In fact, I enjoy their reactions and seeing them get all shy and embarrassed when the cocks come out or some hunky Thai boy tries to charm them.

Don't be a weak Nelly. They're on YOUR turf. If they give you condescending looks, give them a nice fuck off look and get on with enjoying yourself.
As the poll ended up it appears that the results were 50-50 (rather like many club guys claim to be!) so enjoy your added entertainment in the clubs - no problem for me.

If I see women in a club upon walking in I usually walk right back out. I'm not one who regularly offs guys for sex so I don't feel they're in competition for the attention of guys, I just don't care to be watched/judged/etc. as has already been discussed here. There are plenty of other clubs to go to, and many don't have women in them.

I'd disagree to a certain extent about the "target audience" you spoke of. Younger gay men may well be finding rented company via other avenues; older men often tend to seek it in easier ways - such as in a club or on the beach - in my opinion. Granted, you see more older men as customers in the clubs, but you do see men in their 30s and 40s, too. Not as often as young as you state your age to be, but again - younger men may well be finding them at a disco long after an old fogey such as myself is snoring away in bed.

Giving them a nasty look isn't my responsibility, and going to the manager isn't something I'd want to do, either - but then, I'm not as much of a pit bull as some posters here. Anyway, it was nice to see I wasn't in some small minority in the results... and thanks again for those who participated.

newalaan

July 15th, 2011, 04:22

Can't see the problem, they let newalaan in so what's the difference....... Huh? But i'm a guy Combat!

Oh i SEE, it was a witty joke!...lets see now, females ....in bars....let me in.....oh yes...i get it now!! i'm like a female but they still let me in!! Brilliant! Thats a little gem Combat, it must be "the way you tell 'em" because anyone else offering up that limp effort would be considered as being almost backward, but since it is you, and it is your first jokey post without the aid of cartoon pictures. Very well done! Very funny indeed!

For someone who does not want to.......
get into another spat with youyou're not trying very hard are you? You seem to be dragging your obsession from thread to thread. And what do you mean another spat? you have'nt been in a 'spat' with me yet, you were simply a by-product of the last one, I hardly think posting a few infantile cartoons constitutes being in a spat.

Since the poll is ended now i dont suppose it matters if it veres off topic, anyway I've said my bit on the thread subject, do you have any opinions on the thread topic Combat? Or was your post just another excuse for yet more flooding opportunities. Beachflooder and now Little Combat.....a right pair of f****ers.

July 15th, 2011, 06:24

Can't see the problem, they let newalaan in so what's the difference....... :occasion9:

I'm sure you'll get some kind of cursing reply from OldAlanna.

Thankfully, I can no longer view her diatribes.

Luxury!

:bis: :bis: :bis:

newalaan

July 15th, 2011, 07:01

Thankfully, I can no longer view her diatribes.My god even when I'm supposed to be on ignore he still can't help himself with his trouble-making! Ha ha! You think i actually believe you are not reading each and every one of my posts? Despite the dramatic, theatrical annoucement that you shouted from the rooftops on the open forum that you were putting me on ignore everybody knows full well exactly what that drama is ALL about.

It's about having a major tantrum, and the need for those with attention seeking problems to make a big, over the top self-centred fuss over something that could just as easily be done without even the faintest of whispers or the need to tell anyone. Simply put on ignore and be done with it. You are too full of yourself to even consider that without a fanfare! Anyway when one clicks onto SGT without logging on you can see every post, so nobody is swallowing your bull here!

And talking about bull****ing, my 'sources' have now made me aware that your avator here was not the ONLY avator in cyberspace to undergo a sudden change! Change of avator........me on ignore.......allowing yourself to be hooked along with regard to what you look like........it's all starting to add up now! I wouldn't dream of plastering any my little jigsaw pieces on the forum, unlike you i know when to hold back.

Instead of just having me on ignore why not go the whole hog and not bother with any references to me what so ever, now THAT would be a blessing!

Beachlover

July 18th, 2011, 03:08

Thankfully, I can no longer view her diatribes.My god even when I'm supposed to be on ignore he still can't help himself with his trouble-making! Ha ha!...
He just rolled out another 300-word post just for you, Scottish. Take a peek. You know you want to. :rolling:

Beachlover

July 18th, 2011, 03:11

As the poll ended up it appears that the results were 50-50... it was nice to see I wasn't in some small minority in the results...
Not sure if you remember but this question's been posed a few times and your view's never been a small minority.

If I see women in a club upon walking in I usually walk right back out...I just don't care to be watched/judged/etc.
I probably haven't been to as many gogo bars as you but I'm genuinely confused here. I don't think I've ever seen any watching and judging from women in a gogo bar. Are you sure you didn't just experience this once or twice and then assume all women would do this thereafter? How common is it?

I'd disagree to a certain extent about the "target audience" you spoke of. Younger gay men may well be finding rented company via other avenues; older men often tend to seek it in easier ways - such as in a club or on the beach - in my opinion. Granted, you see more older men as customers in the clubs, but you do see men in their 30s and 40s, too.
Yes, you're right but that's why I said "primary" target audience. Of course there's guys in their 30s, 40s and even 20s (as I did with one gogo boy) offing gogo boys. There's women too. But the primary target audience is probably 40 and upwards right? Also, most younger gay men I know don't seek rented company.

bao-bao

July 18th, 2011, 03:48

I probably haven't been to as many gogo bars as you but I'm genuinely confused here. I don't think I've ever seen any watching and judging from women in a gogo bar. Are you sure you didn't just experience this once or twice and then assume all women would do this thereafter? How common is it?
I'm sure - and I'm not one to make general assumptions based on one or two occurrences. I've seen it happen a few times and I've not a regular club goer. However, when people I know well enough to trust tell me similar stories I tend to add them to my reference, even though they aren't verifiable facts.

How common is it? Maybe others will weigh in on this - I'm not in a position to make a generalization. I guess the question I'd ask is how often does it have to happen before it's a problem, and even that's only an opinion. I stand by my earlier position, though... if there are women there I don't often stay (unless they seem like harmless observers), and if there's a sign encouraging them to come in, I don't.

Beachlover

August 2nd, 2011, 23:44

I'm sure - and I'm not one to make general assumptions based on one or two occurrences. I've seen it happen a few times and I've not a regular club goer. However, when people I know well enough to trust tell me similar stories I tend to add them to my reference, even though they aren't verifiable facts.

I guess the question I'd ask is how often does it have to happen before it's a problem, and even that's only an opinion. I stand by my earlier position, though... if there are women there I don't often stay (unless they seem like harmless observers), and if there's a sign encouraging them to come in, I don't.
Ok, fair enough. But when you see women walk into a gogo bar, how likely do they it is that they'll start watching and judging you? 10%, 50%, 90% certain?

Are they that consistently bad? In the few Pattaya bars I've been I had no problems at all. In Phuket, I've had women in bars plenty of times and had no problem. In Bangkok, there's ALWAYS women in BBB/Dream Boys and they're never an issue either. In fact, I've seen far more undesirable and poorly behaved male farangs than I have female farangs in gogo bars!

I'm just surprised that when some of you see women walk into a gogo bar, you feel so certain they'll behave poorly that you walk out... I know a certain percentage of MALE patrons will behave poorly and that doesn't make me want to walk out.

August 3rd, 2011, 01:49

,,, In the few Pattaya bars I've been I had no problems at all.... In fact, I've seen far more undesirable and poorly behaved male farangs than I have female farangs in gogo bars!...

Was your last trip to Pattaya before the groups of intoxicated Russian females started frequenting the gogo bars?

Not a nightly event, but almost guaranteed trouble - especially when they appear with their equally sozzled Russian boyfriends.

:dontknow: :dontknow:

bao-bao

August 3rd, 2011, 02:25

I guess the question I'd ask is how often does it have to happen before it's a problem, and even that's only an opinion. I stand by my earlier position, though... if there are women there I don't often stay (unless they seem like harmless observers), and if there's a sign encouraging them to come in, I don't.
Ok, fair enough. But when you see women walk into a gogo bar, how likely do they it is that they'll start watching and judging you? 10%, 50%, 90% certain? ... Are they that consistently bad?

I'm just surprised that when some of you see women walk into a gogo bar, you feel so certain they'll behave poorly that you walk out... I know a certain percentage of MALE patrons will behave poorly and that doesn't make me want to walk out.
Goodness... I thought this was over two weeks ago. I think you've again misunderstood my comments, but no mind. If you look above to what you quoted I think you'll get it.

I don't usually stay if women come in and don't appear to be there to watch the show or guys as I'm doing, and if there's a sign outside the club saying "Come on in, ladies!" I'd avoid the possibility and go elsewhere. I haven't visited justme's club for that very reason (and from comments he's made I doubt he's missed me - :blackeye: ), but by the poll results it doesn't appear I'm alone in that thinking. I have limited opportunities to spend a little time in a club, so why take the chance of not having a nice time? I'm "out", so I wouldn't call myself hypersensitive, either, but nobody enjoys being judged. If you doubt that, take note of the eruptions here on the board fueled by perceived "attacks".

I'm only able to speak for myself here, but other than one time I was talking to the guy another customer wanted to off I've never been given the evil eye by a man in a club. We're not all there for the same reasons, but other than the holier-than-thous we're all playing in the same band.

Thanks again to everyone who voted - last month.

latintopxxx

August 3rd, 2011, 03:31

...funny being a gazzillion percent gay i don"t even "see" women, they could be pot plants for all I care.....don"t bother one one iota...

August 3rd, 2011, 07:36

I think it amazing that post after post, the OP states that it is "nothing personal" and has "nothing to do with" a specific previous thread and posts regarding a sign and then his last post specifically states comments about the sign that Ladies are Welcome.

By the way - this poll was NOT started about justme's club; I'm aware there are other gay-oriented clubs in Thailand that welcome anyone, and that's certainly their right. It's unfortunate if times are lean for them lately - it's low season, after all - and I don't wish ill will on any of them.

I don't usually stay if women come in and don't appear to be there to watch the show or guys as I'm doing, and if there's a sign outside the club saying "Come on in, ladies!" I'd avoid the possibility and go elsewhere. I haven't visited justme's club for that very reason (and from comments he's made I doubt he's missed me - :blackeye: )

Yes, Bao Bao, ladies are welcome as they are in EVERY bar in this area, and the ladies that do tend to come visit the bar are usually at showtime to see a show and not giggle and comment about who else is there and what their preferences are....they are there for a good time, just as you but you would not know since you hve not been there.
Women are not often in the bar but do on accassion come in, but you are right that your predjudices have kept you out and unable to see for yourself what a good bar is like. So be it, your choice. When I ordered the sign I did not feel that putting that Ladies were Welcome on the sign would drive any customers away and I still believe that the few customers that are so prejudice that it does drive away are just doing themselves an injustice. All the bars complain that they have little to no business and it being a very slow off season. We on the other hand were FULL night before last and again turning customers away because we were full. Keep your prejudices and don't grow up and look at our bar. No sweat off my balls, but I really find your talking out of 2 sides of your mouth. On one side saying that this has nothing to do with a specific place or another thread that I started about my Ladies Welcome sign, and then post specifically that you have not been in Justme's bar for these reasons. Interesting also that you makes remarks that you have been started at, giglled and gotten looks from people when you were never even IN MY BAR. Of course you can say that that was a general comment but you see you did say that you would go into a bar that had a few ladies if they were partying and having a good time as you were and looking at the boys, but you would never know this as you have only made this comment and never been in thae bar. Pathetic.

MARK

August 3rd, 2011, 11:27

:idea: :idea:
I can be of help here if you are full and turning customers away I have a bigger bar for sale that would solve you problem with overcrowding. :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

August 3rd, 2011, 18:00

:idea: :idea:
I can be of help here if you are full and turning customers away I have a bigger bar for sale that would solve you problem with overcrowding. :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:
Oh I have had enough with this one let alone a second one, but thanks anyhoo!

bao-bao

August 3rd, 2011, 22:42

I think it amazing that post after post, the OP states that it is "nothing personal" and has "nothing to do with" a specific previous thread and posts regarding a sign and then his last post specifically states comments about the sign that Ladies are Welcome.
Just to clear things up for the confused, I looked back through the five pages of this thread and anyone can see I only referred to your club three weeks after the poll closed, when Beachlover felt the need to resuscitate it a couple of days ago. There was no attempt to sway the results; in fact, I specifically requested "please... let's leave unkind comments about specific venues out of this - just this once" in the opening post. Nobody singled you out. It wasn't about YOU.

...the ladies that do tend to come visit the bar are usually at showtime to see a show and not giggle and comment about who else is there and what their preferences are....they are there for a good time, just as you but you would not know since you hve not been there.
To paraphrase BL a little ways up the page, when you see women walk into your bar, how likely is it that they WON'T start watching and judging people... 10%, 50%, 90% certain? There is absolutely no way to quantify it, naturally.

And I'll come clean here: I have visited your club, justme. [Can't you just hear the CCTV videos screaming through "rewind"?] and have seen women in the club just enjoying the scenery. That's not the point, and please note the example below when you get to it. Regardless, as others have said they also do I quietly finished my drink, paid my bill, left a tip or two and went off to another club. It's just a matter of personal choice, but nearly half of the people responding to the poll seemed to agree. Granted, it's not scientific - but it's still valid to a degree. It's just not my "prejudices", as you used the term. Prejudices can be positive leanings, too. I'm prejudiced in favor of other places, that's all.

Let me give an example that you can't possibly think is about you:

If you're on a short vacation and saw a restaurant with a sign in the window saying "Weak Stomachs Welcome" and thought that might mean a possibility of someone vomiting on their table next to you, would you go there, or the next one - understanding that most restaurants along the row were much the same?

You put the sign up to encourage patronage and sales. There's no sin in that, and I'm not faulting you for it. I wish nothing but the best of luck to Happy Place, the staff, crew and management... and that includes you.

Your honor - the defense rests.

August 3rd, 2011, 23:13

Bao, you need to go back and read your PMs, I believe darling. You PMed me right away to say that it had nothing to do with my bar and the other thread.
Now you talk about my bar and SPECIFICALLY and indicate that it had everything to do with my other thread and my sign.

So, now I am to understand that you talk out of three sides of your mouth? You have now contradicted yourself because in your quoted post above you state that you have never visted my bar and for this reason and now you are saying that you did visit my bar and saw women.
I am no longer going to even respond to anything you say because now you admit to being a liar that no one can trust what you say is made up or the truth!

I don't usually stay if women come in and don't appear to be there to watch the show or guys as I'm doing, and if there's a sign outside the club saying "Come on in, ladies!" I'd avoid the possibility and go elsewhere. I haven't visited justme's club for that very reason (and from comments he's made I doubt he's missed me - :blackeye: )
The above comment made by Bao Bao on Aug 2, 2011 at 2:30pm. Today is August 3rd. Thank you

bao-bao

August 3rd, 2011, 23:44

Bao, you need to go back and read your PMs, I believe darling. You PMed me right away to say that it had nothing to do with my bar and the other thread.
I'm starting to wonder if you even read the logic in replies or just look for the parts you can distort and only address those. Let's try one more time, again merely out of courtesy to a fellow board member...

The poll wasn't about you, and that's what I was - out of courtesy - trying to assure you offline via PM when I started it, to attempt to save you feeling that it was - and to try to avoid igniting your obviously short fuse, but all was for naught, I guess. Women in clubs (not YOU) were the inspiration for the poll - most everyone else understood that; it didn't target you, except in your mind. Go ahead and think whatever you wish. Geeez. You just keep making yourself seem more and more unpleasant. Is that really how you wish to portray yourself as representative for a business?

Again, best of luck to all and sundry at Happy Place - including you.

Beachlover

August 4th, 2011, 01:02

Don't want to get in the middle of this... I honestly don't think Bao Bao is voicing his comments about women in gogo bars to target one specific bar. Most or all gay gogo bars in Boyztown and Pattaya welcome women and Justme's bar is just one of many Bao Bao's been in. But I understand how it may easily be perceived as personal...

Goodness... I thought this was over two weeks ago... when Beachlover felt the need to resuscitate it a couple of days ago.
No, I just didn't see your reply until two weeks later as I've not been around. So I decided to give you the courtesy of a reply.

by the poll results it doesn't appear I'm alone in that thinking.
I agree. But (1) I'm not surprised at the result. Let's be honest... It basically says a large portion of the older gay men who visit gogo bars and pay to stick their cock up the arse of a boy half their age or vice versa are intimidated by the presence of farang women witnessing their activities right?

Some say they're less intimidated by Asian women. That's probably because they're ashamed by their actions and these farang women are the same people they interact with back home. They could be your ex-wife, boss, colleague or whoever. This makes you uncomfortable. Where as the THAI or ASIAN women you see could live on the dark side of the moon for all you feel. You feel a greater degree of separation with them.

As for me, I've never felt judged or stared at in a gogo bar. That's probably because I'm Asian and unless I open my mouth, farang women probably think I'm just another Thai doing whatever Thais do. So I admit it's a little challenging for me to empathise with how you're treated by farang women in gay gogo bars.

(2) I think if the poll were conducted effectively (i.e. to meet professional market research standards), it would only be useful to bar owners if worded to question the likelihood of a customer avoiding or prematurely leaving a bar due to the presence of women.

Fact is, plenty of farang men are dis-comforted by the presence of farang women in gay gogo bars. The poll confirms this. But the key question is whether and HOW this affects their buying decisions. WOULD they deliberately avoid or prematurely leave as you do due to the presence of women?

Justme's experience indicates the portion of gay men who would do this is too low to consider banning women in his bar.

I'll come clean here: I have visited your club, justme... and have seen women in the club just enjoying the scenery. That's not the point, and please note the example below when you get to it. Regardless, as others have said they also do I quietly finished my drink, paid my bill, left a tip or two and went off to another club. It's just a matter of personal choice, but nearly half of the people responding to the poll seemed to agree. Granted, it's not scientific - but it's still valid to a degree. It's just not my "prejudices", as you used the term. Prejudices can be positive leanings, too. I'm prejudiced in favor of other places, that's all.
Ah ha! So you have seen women in a gogo club who did NOT behave poorly and start giving you the evil eye. I knew it! Hahaha :rolling:

Ok, the point I'm trying to make is just that you can't be sure that ALL women or even the MAJORITY of women will start giving you judgmental looks and behave poorly.

Did any of the women you saw in Justme's bar do that? If not, why leave pre-maturely and/or avoid it altogether? Isn't that a bit drastic? For example, when I see an older white guy eyeing me up in a gay sauna anywhere in Asia, I know it's likely he'll try to grope me in an aggressive and unwelcome manner They don't all do this, but a good number do and it's annoying. That doesn't mean I go up and smash their head in every time I see one of these guys eyeing me up. I just give them the benefit of the doubt and remain wary of them, while continuing to enjoy the place.

Was your last trip to Pattaya before the groups of intoxicated Russian females started frequenting the gogo bars?
Last visited Pattaya bars in 2009. I generally don't bother visiting gogo bars now a days. Had no problems with Russians back then.

bao-bao

August 4th, 2011, 01:37

Let's be honest... It basically says a large portion of the older gay men who visit gogo bars and pay to stick their cock up the arse of a boy half their age or vice versa are intimidated by the presence of farang women witnessing their activities right?
No, wrong - but thanks for the courtesy of your reply. The results say only that 32 people (46%) responded saying "I'm uncomfortable being in a gay go-go club or 'off' bar with women in the audience", 32 people (46%) saying they weren't uncomfortable with it, and 5 people (7%) saying "other" - no more and no less. Anything more is mere supposition, but a wise owner would manage their place accordingly, if they knew which side of the bread the butter was on - unless they felt confident that women made up for that 46% who were uncomfortable. [Cue the "You said I was stupid!" reply]

Few on this forum are open with friends, family, business colleagues and associates about their holiday habits in the bars, clubs and alleyways of Thailand - other than the spelling-challenged folks who don't have the sense to shut up about it. As thorough as your travel reports have been presented I understand your reasoning behind blacking out everything but the carpet in your holiday photos (I'm joking with you here, Beachlover, don't take it wrong) and everyone has their own level of comfort.

To be fair and answer your question, though - no, on the one occasion I stepped into justme's bar in the interest of giving it a fair trial there were women in there and they were just there to ogle, as were many of the other customers. No problem with that, but the more females there are, the more chance of something unpleasant happening. I'm sure you understand that. Note my example about the restaurant.

If you were uncomfortable enough for whatever reason about these farang who are always out to grope you, you'd give them a w-i-d-e berth, wouldn't you? That's how I (and some others) feel about clubs...and there are plenty of clubs. If one doesn't please the clientele, they'll go elsewhere. Why spoil an otherwise fine (but all-too-brief) vacation?

August 4th, 2011, 01:55

if women come in and don't appear to be there to watch the show or guys as I'm doing, and if there's a sign outside the club saying "Come on in, ladies!" I'd avoid the possibility and go elsewhere. I haven't visited justme's club for that very reason (and from comments he's made I doubt he's missed me - :blackeye: )
The above comment made by Bao Bao on Aug 2, 2011 at 2:30pm. Today is August 3rd. Thank you[/quote]

We are in a tourist area. Some GAY MEN and women come in to a gay bar for their first time and look at the bar, the lighting system, the show and surooundings for the first time. Looking around at everything does not mean they are there to oogle at people and the comment was that THEY WERE LOOKING AROUND.

Secondly, you are a self admitted LIAR as you said just yesterday in your post that you had never been in the bar. You cant have your cake and eat it too.
YOU LIED. Based on the sentence that you would NEVER go in to a bar that had a sign out proclaiming that women were welcome, I choose to believe you lied about being in the bar.
Hey baby, join Surf.

bao-bao

August 4th, 2011, 02:10

if women come in and don't appear to be there to watch the show or guys as I'm doing, and if there's a sign outside the club saying "Come on in, ladies!" I'd avoid the possibility and go elsewhere. I haven't visited justme's club since for that very reason (and from comments he's made I doubt he's missed me - :blackeye: )
The above comment made by Bao Bao on Aug 2, 2011 at 2:30pm. Today is August 3rd. Thank you
You're entirely correct, justme. I neglected to put the word "since" in that post. I made a mistake, and I very rarely go back and edit a post, since I make an honest effort to think it through the first time.

If I was out to "get" you I wouldn't replied a few hours ago with the info missing in error on your happy hour post on GBT.

Best of luck to you and the club.

August 4th, 2011, 04:22

OMG!! I did not even see that you went back and edited your original post scince I posted it a few hours ago! So first you wrote that you had never been to my bar, then when called a LIAR, you did not address it in your reply, and then madly figured out how you would FIX it, so you went back and changed what you said. I cant believe you! Your sentence/post CLEARLY states... and when you see a sign saying that ladies come on in, you would avoid the club for fear of having to be in such a situation. Now you are saying you did exactly what you said you did not do, you went in??!! Oh you really are a troubled person!!

Your original unedited post where you say that you have not been in and from my posts, I have not suffered from your lack of being a patron. Please also remember your comment that you dont like go go boy bars and you have only been in a few..... You have gone from LIAR to and all time low.... changing your posts to cover up what you said! Glad I copied your ORIGINAL comment!
I don't usually stay if women come in and don't appear to be there to watch the show or guys as I'm doing, and if there's a sign outside the club saying "Come on in, ladies!" I'd avoid the possibility and go elsewhere. I haven't visited justme's club for that very reason (and from comments he's made I doubt he's missed me - ), .

Regarding your posts and corrections that you claim, please let us all follow the timeline stamps here:

You post that for this reason you have never visited my bar.....Aug 3 01:55 am...just a few hours after midnight.
Your post was copied and you were challenged Aug 3 19:06 pm (7:06 pm)
You went to Gay Button Thai and made your fix it post at 23:58 or 2 minutes to midnight of the 4th and then made reference to it on SGF as though it was made PRIOR!

Editing your post and your post on GBT came well after you had your post copied. Nothing before! You are really a LIAR but now trying to cover it up. Just admit it! You lied and got caught. The Surf liar hall of fame.

and if there's a sign encouraging them to come in, I don't.

bao-bao

August 4th, 2011, 05:53

Oh, for crying out loud.

Even when someone admits they made a mistake and tells you you were correct you still go back and look for something to twist. I didn't go back and correct my post, I added in bold blue letters what I meant to say originally when I quoted it in an attempt to keep it simple for you, but I don't expect you're going to let this one go, either.

Did I intend to lie? No. Did I leave a word out? Yes. Do you ever leave things out (like the happy hour times) and edit/re-edit/re-re-edit posts yourself? Yes - most every time. Did I visit your bar? Yes. Would I ever want to step back into it, especially if it meant risking running into you throwing a fit such as you are again here? No. But your club is "packed" and I know you won't miss me, so give it a rest.

I'm not upset with you - it's up to you if you choose to continue to twist things to badger me.

I'd feel more sorry for you if you'd READ things before going off on a tangent, and frothed at the mouth a little less. As it is, the ones I do feel sorry for are your employees, especially if this is how you misinterpret anything that falls out of line with what you want to accept as reality.

August 4th, 2011, 12:19

Bao, I will not go back and forth with you.
You were clear in what you originally said and afterwards what you returned to do to cover it all up and make it nice.
TWICE and not once you made statements that you would not ENTER a bar that openly had a sign that said Women Were Welcome. FACT.
You stated THAT FOR THIS REASON you NEVER went to the bar. FACT.
Now you want to say that you convieniently left out the word anymore or until or whatever word it was that you put in to change the entire meaning
BUT you dont understand that in the context of EVERYTHING else you posted say you would NOT CHANCE A PROBLEM AND WOULD NOT GO IN, (FACT)
well it makes your story unbelievable. Certainly NOTHING like leaving out the Happy Hour hours. See leaving out the hours does not change it from the fact that WE DO have Happy Hours, unlike yours which change it to you never went in to you will never go in again. See the sign was there from day 1.

No, I wont miss your business because I dont like liars, or theives and I certainly dont need your "best wishes".
I saw what you wrote, I know what it meant, and that is that. I wont make any other posts regarding this.
Maybe like the other person, you make plenty of valuable posts so that a few "inconsistancies" or lies, doesnt matter to other people on the board, but to me like a third individual, it shows me just what I could expect from you in order to cover up what you originally were trying to do. Apologies work only when you come clean. and no, I wont miss your business cause you seldomly go to go go clubs and off someone.....or was that a lie also? Dont answer sweetie cause I dont care. Mei Son Jai...pie kin keee.
End of subject for me.
:pottytrain2: :thebirdman: :pottytrain2: :thebirdman:

bao-bao

August 4th, 2011, 20:27

Wrong a third time, but you've again made the point that some people don't read things correctly before replying. Anyone who wants to waste the time to go back through the thread can see that.

Beachlover

August 5th, 2011, 00:01

Bao Bao! Is that YOU getting involved in a multi-thread slagfest? I'm VERY disappointed in you. *Finger wagging* What have you got to say for yourself? :rolling:

Ok, I think what's happened here is...

- It's clear Bao Bao has a MAJOR issue with women in gogo bars. He obviously feels strongly about this, which is fair enough. No problem.

- I feel this is irrational and emotional and he probably disagrees with this.

- The fact that Justme is perceived to be trying to attract ladies to his bar with that sign, probably erked him, seeing as he would like to see LESS women in gay gogo bars.

- So he starts a poll. I can't say if this was an attempt to put down Justme. I personally don't think Bao Bao is the type to be that aggressive.

- But the poll and many of Bao Bao's comments were clearly aimed at and/or made IN RELATION TO Justme's bar.

Bao Bao, it's just a shame you need to mince around denying this and trying to avoid confronting it. Ok, so you don't like this aspect of Justme's bar. Big deal! Just say so. Say you had an issue with it and want to get everyone's opinion on this. And if Justme gets mad, then just deal with it!

I reckon he's less likely to get mad if you just be upfront about it. It's pretty clear your opinions are attacking one aspect of his bar and thus, attacking his bar. Why make this a "deniable attack"? Just be upfront and deal with it. Some will disagree with you and get heated about it. That's life... At least then, you wouldn't need to go around in circles arguing whether this theme is attacking his bar in particular.

And yes, what you say now about visiting Justme's bar makes what you said before a complete lie but at least you confessed it voluntarily. Look at this objectively and you might find that the fact you felt the need to lie earlier might be a sign of this being quite an emotional dislike/decision, which you then tried to justify with logic.

Beachlover

August 5th, 2011, 00:08

Back to topic...

a wise owner would manage their place accordingly, if they knew which side of the bread the butter was on - unless they felt confident that women made up for that 46% who were uncomfortable.
That's related to the point I was trying to make - that feedback on how many simply feeling "uncomfortable" would not be a key factor for decision making for a wise owner.

He needs feedback on how many deliberately avoid or leave gogo bars when farang women are present. I suspect that while, many farang men feel "uncomfortable", that isn't enough for them to avoid the bars they want to visit because of it. For example, I feel uncomfortable about the smoke in some discos in Asia. Doesn't mean I avoid them.

Few on this forum are open with friends, family, business colleagues and associates about their holiday habits in the bars, clubs and alleyways of Thailand...
That's true... and I think it relates to another point I made in my prior post about farang men feeling uncomfortable because the farang women is like a "peer"... She could be your ex-wife, colleague or boss... The degree of separation and unfamiliarity isn't enough. No problem if they're other farang men having a perve though!

To be fair and answer your question, though - no, on the one occasion I stepped into justme's bar in the interest of giving it a fair trial there were women in there and they were just there to ogle, as were many of the other customers. No problem with that, but the more females there are, the more chance of something unpleasant happening.
Ok, thanks for being honest. I'm just surprised that despite the fact these women were sitting there enjoying the show, like all the other customers, you felt the need to up and leave quicker than you would have otherwise. I can think of a many worse things than the POSSIBILITY of a few evil looks from some women.

If you were uncomfortable enough for whatever reason about these farang who are always out to grope you, you'd give them a w-i-d-e berth, wouldn't you?
True. But that doesn't mean I leave the sauna altogether! If the sauna was full of nothing but those types I would. But a few here and there isn't reason enough to leave.

August 5th, 2011, 00:59

As I stated prior, the poll is flawed and was destined to be doomed right from the beginning.
The question would have to be asked when a customer is LEAVING a bar. They could have filled out a small questionaire/comment card and returned it. Maybe they are leaving because there a a few women in there on one night. Maybe because they dont like shows and maybe because they are going to meet a freind or just want to see another bar.

The reason the poll is totally flawed is because the SGF Forum is open to all persons in all countries.
There is no telling if they have even been to Thailand and how many times they come. If they like go go bars and rent boys or they like going places with their lovers. I think many bar owners couldnt give a rats ass about the forum member who sits in front of his computer in USA or England or where have you and either has never beeen here or when he comes he comes once a year. Maybe he doesnt even visit Pattaya. The only way I can see a poll being specific is the comment card and giving them out to CUSTOMERS and those customers who choose to fill them out. We will listen to them.
Thats why the poll tells us NOTHING and is not even worth thinking or talking about.

Beachlover

August 6th, 2011, 18:13

I distilled my thoughts a bit further...

Bao Bao, you admitted that you left Justme's bar prematurely just because women walked in, even though they weren't doing anything but ogling the boys like everyone else.

Don't you think it's a bit irrational, intolerant and prejudiced to walk out of a bar just because women walk in? I think there's a problem when the mere presence of a certain type of person makes you uncomfortable enough to do this and call for bars not to allow them in. Not their behaviour. Just their presence.

That's kind of like people who feel uncomfortable in the presence of black people or gay people. Though granted, this is in a certain environment.

Reminds me of what happened when an openly gay man walked into a pub diner in Alice Springs, Australia earlier this year:
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Restaurant insult shocks gay author

"The barman gave me a very pointed look and said, 'That's reserved for real men,'"

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel- ... 1byyw.html (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/restaurant-insult-shocks-gay-author-20110317-1byyw.html)
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Smiles

August 6th, 2011, 20:25

" ... I distilled my thoughts a bit further ... "
Yes, waiting with bated breath. I can hardly hold my water: suspenseful anticipation indeed.

August 7th, 2011, 00:04

The reason the poll is totally flawed is because the SGF Forum is open to all persons in all countries.
It is not bao-bao's poll that is "totally flawed", it is your feverish little brain. No offence intended.

bao-bao

August 7th, 2011, 00:44

Bao Bao, you admitted that you left Justme's bar prematurely just because women walked in, even though they weren't doing anything but ogling the boys like everyone else.

Don't you think it's a bit irrational, intolerant and prejudiced to walk out of a bar just because women walk in? I think there's a problem when the mere presence of a certain type of person makes you uncomfortable enough to do this and call for bars not to allow them in. Not their behaviour. Just their presence.

That's kind of like people who feel uncomfortable in the presence of black people or gay people. Though granted, this is in a certain environment.
It would be a more meaningful observation if you'd stop stating your interpretations and re-wording of people's comments as fact and stop posting them as if you were cross-examining a witness. "So, Mr. Bao... you ADMIT that on the night in question you deliberately and with malice of forethought got up and left..." :blackeye:

It wasn't "irrational, intolerant and prejudiced", it was personal preference for me to quietly finish my drink and leave - nothing more, nothing less. It also wasn't "just because women walked in", and there's no need to qualify it further. To drag racist or bigoted tones into this is unnecessarily inflammatory,too - as you are well aware.

May I also point out that the only mention of a "call for bars not to allow them in" is coming from you here for the first time. I was curious (a word you yourself use many times when posting a question) to see if I was one of a tiny minority who preferred to enjoy and evening with the least chance of discomfort possible while on holiday, and although the results were split 50-50, 46% said they were also uncomfortable so evidently I'm not the only one. I merely mentioned it, and the others may just go to another club. That should give a club owner with anything close to business savvy something to at least THINK about, rather than make a scene. If I owned a club I'd be happy to have the input to make further decisions on.

The poll was called "totally flawed" because it was taken as a personal affront by someone who couldn't understand the thought behind it - or once again didn't take the time to read and comprehend it, and I don't think I'm alone in that thought.

Although your interpretation of my preference translated to what you stated as a "MAJOR issue with women in go-go bars" that is yet again a misinterpretation and misstatement of my words (AND untrue), but you are free to say what you wish on an open forum.

I'd suggest again in one final attempt to clarify: If you yourself were put into an uncomfortable position where you have a choice to remove yourself I should hope you - as the intelligent person I give you credit for being - would do yourself. I would also think you wouldn't go back into the same situation thinking that repeating the same action would achieve different results.

August 7th, 2011, 09:05

Beachie, give it up. You cannot win when someone goes back and edits thier posts from apples to oranges. Thankfully it was captured before he changed it and then captured again to show he changed it.
He lied, has never been inside and he hates the sign and wants to make his point and will change things and recant to prove a point. You cant talk to a person like that. Didnt you learn with Surfcrest just how far sometimes a person will go to make thier point? Drop it.

Beachlover

August 14th, 2011, 23:02

Missed replying to this earlier...

I was curious (a word you yourself use many times when posting a question) to see if I was one of a tiny minority who preferred to enjoy and evening with the least chance of discomfort possible while on holiday, and although the results were split 50-50, 46% said they were also uncomfortable so evidently I'm not the only one.
Not sure if you saw this but there was a similar thread a few months ago: gay-thailand-f9/gentlemen-only-when-where-t20329.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand-f9/gentlemen-only-when-where-t20329.html)

If you yourself were put into an uncomfortable position where you have a choice to remove yourself I should hope you - as the intelligent person I give you credit for being - would do yourself. I would also think you wouldn't go back into the same situation thinking that repeating the same action would achieve different results.
That's a very circumstantial thing so your statement is too general.

Given a situation where I'm happy with the environment other than one or two exceptions (e.g. someone being a dickhead), I might prefer to tolerate or deal with the problem where practical, rather than abandon my position altogether.